Please consider hitting the like and subscribe if you haven't! Seriously the easiest and one of the best ways to support my work. Appreciate you all! Leave a comment and tell me what you think about the video!
just think... you could emulate that "up and down" pressure profile from the Superkop on your Decent and potentially expose another earth shattering espresso shot pulling technique that goes against all traditional theories
your shirt is really cool!!! I want it! your hair is cool!!! your mustache matches your character, cool!!! your eyeglasses are cool!! you are a cool dude -- not just by appearance, but also personality. You're the man!!!
I know maybe I’m being too much a robot groupie but when I use the robot i think that the manual espresso makers need to calm down, the robot figured it out. All steel, no preheat necessary (unless light), easy clean up, cool look, gives rich gooey espresso, like it’s it. It’s the one.
@@spyk124 the robot has less thermal loss than flair- anyone could forgo preheating but with robot you don’t need to lol and it’s a smaller profile than flair
"food safe" plastic, just keep in mind they replace one component/solvent in the plastic for an other that just hasn't been researched..... yet. That doesn't make it safe. Flair 58 still king with holding heat/pre-heat. But it's nice to see more brands coming with different variations!
@@veganpotterthevegan "humanity can benefit by plastic induced infertility" You might have a point but.... countries where the population is growing at the moment aren't the best educated, those are not the countries where you expect (much) coffee devices like this. Let's not go off topic any further, I stick to metal and glass 😜
@@yspegelAgreed, metal and glass only. Especially leaded glass and cadmium. Oh, wait, I guess additives make a big difference even with metal and glass :)
Thank you for your review as lever is my next rabbit hole after your reply to me about flow profiling. I always appreciate your videos and super accurate reviews
I am a satisfied owner of a Flair 58. I have had it for more than a year and I find it fantastic, great versatility for different roast degrees and just perfectly build. I also own a Flair Classic that I use for traveling and at my office, and its always a conversation starting. Lance, thanks for your great videos, I really enjoy them.
These days the Flair 58x has the same heating element as the 58 and 58 plus. You just need to add the controller and power supply to convert a 58x into a 58. A must if you're into light roasts in my book. Great review Lance & Hugo!
It’s a myth that light roast always mandates high temps. 1:2 ratio 15s turbos @ 86C is how a lot of people get the very best results with high extracting burrs like 98mm HU.
@@danymeeuwissen5973 Fully agree 👍 Just wanted to point out that for certain recipe-water-burrset combinations, some parameters will be ideal outside the expected range.
LAnce, I love you. I just purchased a Superkop. Can't wait to get it. Chasing the GOD shot. However, I am easy to please. Just want to keep it simple, and still be able to have a good shot, even if the shit hits the fan!
Lance, I really enjoy your videos. You always speak your mind honestly, and your videos are always very informative and scientifically sound. I've always found you likable because, like you, I have a passion for vintage espresso machines. I love the old technology, the look, the craftsmanship behind them, and the longevity of these old machines. Great content as always! If you are really interested in a Faema Velox wall mounted machine, feel free to contact me. I have one in my basement that I have never gotten around to restoring. And as I can see, an old Faema Mercurio has moved in with you ;) will there be a video about it eventually? That was and still is my dream machine. Greetings from Austria ✌️
I don't think these are even comparable to the 58. A Pro 2 would be fairer, and I think they both fall short of that benchmark. Then there's the huge levers! Certainly not as counter top friendly as their rivals.
I’m in the market for a lever machine. I hear so many good things about the flair (besides the hearing unit and the cords that come along with it) so I’m excited to see how this review goes
The bomber is on sale right now. But 60°C coffee is absolutely useless. Nobody fits preheating into their workflow. I do like their baskets though. The 15g DEX is my daily driver and "fancy basket".
These machines are crazy and too expensive IMO. Not to mention I’m over the moon finding a “Lightly used” Cafelat Robot Barista with an extra basket on eBay for $325 Woo Hoo! I considered the Flair 58, but couldn’t pass up this ROBOT! It’s almost impossible to pull a bad shot with it!
The f58 is an amazing machine that is just hard to beat, but it’s definitely also more the machine for the enthusiasts compared to say a robot that is an easier package to get into. For light yeah it’s not an easy thing to beat.
well you are as big as the rock so it's understandable people can be confused :p also, for real, i am so sorry that humans are just mean and hateful towards your body :( even if those people had a partner and children and life as beautiful as yours they would never be able to realize what they had
So I've been wondering: Don't you already lose a ton of heat with those gooseneck spout type kettles? I have trouble imagining that the water going into the machine was anywhere near boiling...
I have done temp testing. It does lose heat, but nothing insane to be sure. With a preheat, you can have water sitting around 95 in the chamber. It will lose heat as you pump it through, though, so probably brewing closer to 92ish
@@LanceHedrick That's interesting to know, thanks. I was just wondering if those spouts aren't actually something of a stumbling rock for the enthusiasts who do care for exact measurements etc...
For $200 more, I would have expected the first one to have better thermal stability. There's just no excuse to not be able to retain or generate heat - a little more time researching materials and heating methods would go a long way to creating a standout product.
who is carrying these and moving them while traveling? makes more sense in a RV or at work if you got your own office etc. But on vacation, just find a coffee shop
@@FNU_SNU seems like the people who have them on Home Barista and EAF discord really like them. It looks like batch 2 is available for preorders so probably more will be out in the wild soon for review.
Its a shame they make some nice stuff....i think, i wouldn't know. That logo and branding has been the reason to move on. Yes i guess i am that shallow but i have it look and touch it every single day 3-4 times.
the PROBLEM with flair, is that with the metal construction, *you'd think* it would be durable, but NO. so many reports of breakage and of the lever, the frame. and the company doesn't seem to stand by their products as much as you'd think. :/ i was sad to discover this, because i'd wanted one. but part of the allure of MANUAL MACHINES is to *not* have it prone to breakage like the regular machines.
Nice to see the Flair isn't the best manual machine anymore. Could you help me out? For a while now, I've been searching for a good espresso machine that doesn't break the bank, but where you do need to put some effort into to get better coffee than on a fully automated Bambino. That's why I first wanted to buy a Gaggia Classic Pro. The big downside for me is that besides espresso, I also drink 125ml Americano on a regular base, cause I don't want a drink that is gone in 5 minutes in the evening. As I'm not the only person in my house drinking Americano, I don't think a Gaggia is my best option. Do you know an all metal dual boiler/HX espressomachine that doesn't break the bank (say, under 1-1.1K) that will probably be on my kitchen counter for the next 30 years orso (not taking human error into account)? 1 note though. Assuming you won't recommend a Decent, I'll probably see if I can add a Gaggiuino in which case I want a machine that has a very cheap or no PID of possible. Thanks for your reply in advance
Preheating is time consuming and a nuisance with the Sonic S7... and with the Superkop? Whoever thought that repeated shots of espresso made in hot plastic should be fired. Should've used borosilicate glass.
The watercup is heat resisted and therefore can be removed immediately after pulling the shot and you can go straight to another round of shots. We have food stalls on the streets of Bangkok using the Superkop constantly because of the easy of use. Problem with glass and metal is the heat transfer and loss
@@Superkop_espresso There has been study after study about the dangers of plastics in our environment and microplastics in our bodies. I'm sure the Superkop is well engineered and works perfectly as intended. I can't fathom, however, why anyone would develop a coffee or espresso routine around plastic, made from a myriad of cancer causing chemicals.
Call me crazy, but if you have to preheat one of those...twice, and it costs hundreds of dollars, it's not good. $850 for a chinese made espresso puller...you're getting ripped off.
Over here one of these new lever machines are about 5x the price of a basic Flair or 2x the price of the Robot. Don't think I'll "upgrade" from my Robot soon.
There's a ton of solutions to preheat the piston, I ditched my flair and never looked back. Light roast or dark, it's the simplest, cleanest workflow for excellent espresso.
The Flair 58 has a couple of predecessor models to work out the kinks. That being said, any lever machine will have to match not just Flair’s ability to retain temp, but match it in price for it to be a real contender.
You have to hand it to Paul Pratt (or Faema with their Baby) - the Robot is a masterpiece. It may not have a heated group like the Flair 58, but due to its design it doesn't really need preheating unless you go for light roasts.
This M3WHbombing company needs to cool it with plastering their logo on everything. They also desperately need rebranding because that name and logo are impossibly complicated.
Hideous branding. Literally no matter how good a product they make (and it feels like mostly mid/stolen ideas) I don’t need fucking war machines on my bean juicers
The heating element on the flair saves so much time and effort. Plus, the standard 58mm portafilter means you can use all kinds of accessories with it. I love it.
@@VishnuRajam4x4I agree. It depends on a person’s needs but I use the flair58 twice a day and the heating element makes all the difference for me (with the plunger pulled up to heat the piston too): turn it on when I wake up for a first shot just before starting work and then I can easily walk over even during a meeting to turn it on to heat up again (to pull a second shot during my break or even on a non video call).
The idea behind the robot is that you don't really have to preheat. I have one and I find the espresso it produces without preheating amazing. Maybe not just as good as the potential a flair58 has but I love that the robot has no electronics or cables. I think the two machnies are close competitors, some up and downsides on both and it really comes down to personal taste.@@VishnuRajam4x4
It depends if you want an easy fun ride of a machine that is ready to use but that is somewhat less versatile, that doesn’t allow to change all sort of components the robot is definitely the pick, do you like to explore, learn, experiment, drink light roast experimental processed coffee, are an enthusiast and don’t mind a steeper learning curve and offer loads of accessories the f58 is for you, I really don’t think the two speak to the same crowds. While the f58 for sure can make any sort of shot (within its volume restriction) due to its nature I’ll probably go robot if I was just going to pull a medium roasted comfort shot.
As a Flair Pro 2 owner, I know firsthand how awful the preheating trouble can be on manual machines, and it's honestly ridiculous that anything MORE expensive than the 58 can't hit brew temperatures of 90 degrees. Even worse, you can't use the preferred preheating method of most pro 2 users of placing the brew chamber over your kettle. The SuperKop is very aesthetically appealing and looks neat, but there's absolutely no competition with the 58 without a pressure gauge, which is non-negotiable especially at that price imo
I have a kettle that opens wide enough for me to drop the whole thing inside and boil with my brew water, and I cut a notch at the end of an old wooden spoon handle to hook out the chamber when it’s piping hot. Once I had the practice down I’m pulling shots with great temp stability and ease. I’ve been deciding whether to upgrade to the Flair 58+ but I’m happy enough with my setup that I’ll wait for their gen 2 update.
Never thought I’d comment about an ad in a TH-cam video, but thank you for being brave enough to be open about your struggles with your mental health. It’s so important that we normalise the topic and the more people that speak up about it the better. Thanks Lance!
Sorry to spoil the mood but even though it's good to talk about mental health, BetterHelp is not the way to go. It's a terrible company that has made shady business and ethical decisions in a space where that should absolutely not be acceptable. If you need therapy, please go seek a therapist that works for you without using a company like BetterHelp
@@blingbling2001I don't claim any qualifications, but it's now public knowledge that they illegally shared sensitive customer health data with advertisers and are now the target of a huge class-action lawsuit. There's also been a lot of criticism from people in the industry of their practices with regards to Therapy and accusations of insensitivity when it comes to major tragedies like the Travis Scott concert. I'm not against getting Therapy at all, quite the opposite. I have a great therapist right now. All I'm saying is that if you need therapy you should try to seek out a licensed therapist that takes your insurance through other means
@@blingbling2001Also, I don't have anything against Lance as a creator. I am subscribed and I love his videos, I just question his choice of sponsor for this video specifically
Will you be reviewing the Odyssey Argos at some point? I am really curious about it but can't get myself to "pull the lever" on the purchase without some non manufacturer statement on it.
I have an Argos on pre-order, hopefully it will arrive before the heat death of the universe. It isn't really comparable to these as it's heated and has a boiler, but it'd be great to see a comparison with the Cremina and a modded La Pavoni.
Bought a Flair 58 when my semi-automatic broke after 8years of service. Thought it would be a good temp solution (and a backup for future issues) until I decided on what my next espresso machine would be. Long story short, the Flair 58 is now my daily driver; not sure if I'll get another semi-automatic as this manual lever is just too enjoyable. Glad to see other lever machines coming to market but agree that the Flair's temp stability and general workflow outshine these two competitors.
What your describing is the reason for the Superkop. We wanted to develop something that does not require a lot of service, has only a few parts that can be replace by yourself and makes great espresso.
By price point...pico presso, forge, newton or robot, flair 58. I think if your going to spend over 500 just get meticulous for temp and control when you can
Great video, I've been looking at the Flair. "Fun" story...I find myself single, with no espresso machine but in possession of an 1ZPresso K Ultra, Acaia Lunar and Stagg kettle. I think the only solution to this issue is to get the Flari 58....For the time being, I'm using my Aeropress. I've learned a lot frm your videos. Thanks.
Yes and yes. For specialty beans and light roast ill go for the flair 58. For the everyday espresso or latte the robot is really good, and fast in startup.
@@bali404 because of the thermal stability. the robot that is on stock setup is not hot enough to pull a good shot of light roast. Users who pull light roast on a robot do some pre heating stuff to have the piston on high temp.
The Bomber certainly caught my attention when I first saw it, but that is quite a hefty price tag for something that essentially does the same thing as the Flair. Perhaps if they made a less premium version without the wooden accents and added in thermal management around the chamber, it would be a strong contender.
Hey there, great video! You need to take a look at the newton espresso S2!! similar to the flair 58, startup from new Zealand, only 330€, great design and almost no videos on it...
Lance, dear god, that cup in the beginning of the video, at 0:12-0:16, where did you get this beautiful cup sir? I have been looking for ones just like this forever and could not quite find the right thing.
It seems to me, and I don't own a lever machine, that the 2 main engineering problems to overcome with these machines is 1. Getting enough heat into the group head, and 2. Having a lever that doesn't require too much bicep (and vertical space). The Superkop is at least approaching both issues with novel solutions... I think it would be cool to see the Superkop people team up with the Robot people and release a lever machine together, they could call it "Robokop" 😂
The Superkop looks insanely cool, totally agree wall mounted would be sick. But the vertical space it takes up on a counter is almost comical, given that it's rest position seems to be up. But glad to see solid R&D and industrial design in the lever space! Great video Lance
@@Superkop_espresso Yeah, I'm probably an outlier, but in a galley-style kitchen, it just doesn't work for me without designing around it (if I want anything taller than my Europiccola I need to remove cabinets. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the machine, just not for me right now. Wall mounting is super cool, but I don't trust my 5 and 6 year old :) Cheers
Brewing light roasted espresso on my flair 58 while watching this and hearing that last little summary piece made it feel like a great choice for me! Question though for lance or anyone else, anyone have an recs or videos to link me to for looking into higher end light roast espresso focused grinders? In the not too distant future I'm expecting to hit a decent professional milestone and think upgrading my grinder would be a good way to reward myself for that
Sad to not see the Espresso Forge on your channel in these comparisons. I know it's not the flashiest, but it has a full cylinder of water and can be easily pre-heated directly ontop of many gooseneck kettles. Steam it up to temp easily. I'd recommend the stainless version, lasts a lifetime and very easy to clean and service, and made in USA!
@@LanceHedrick I missed that video i'll check it out, I'm sure though comparisons are always nice. To me commerical levers have a greater height to the spring lever, and that's often seen as a mechanical advantage. Many bars even put their machines up higher than normal counter height to give smaller baristas more weight advantage. Try letting body weight sink into the shot rather than pulling with your biceps! Just my 2c
Not even close to the Flair 58. They lack about everything that the 58 has. Silent, electrical preheat, compact, beautiful. Staying with my 58, thanks.
I could never buy an MHW-3BOMBER product because it would be a conversation starter in a bad way lol. Plus that suitcase ☠️... Could they at least reveal what the brand name even stands for?m
I'm happy with my Flair Pro 2. I don't need a 58mm machine, I already got one (E61 machine) and prefer my Flair. The brewing chamber is super easy to heat up using the lower part of a bialetti to steam it up, the lever is easily operatored two-handed, and while not super cheap, it is still kind of affordable. The flair produces incredible shots consistently and I just love to play with the lever to modulate the shot. I'm not into the 3rd wave/light roast game, and for me I just love the thick, sweet, creamy espresso you can get with the flair. The bomba looks great but honestly, if I'm about to spend that much money on a manual lever I would go all the way to a Cremina.Or a LaPav.
that is not a manometer it is a pressure gauge. With a manometer, you will be able to measure the fluid pressure. The instrument balances and creates a hydraulic pressure for measuring the pressure with a predetermined column of fluid. It lets you measure negative and high pressure
yeah, i think at the end of the day what is most likely going to cause me to spend more money is an improvement in workflow. And it seems both of these have quite a worse workflow compared to the flair 58; especially on light roasts; which is what i drink. As for Dethroning the Flair 58; I think it's days are numbered as king if you can count the meticulous as the same category. Which is a bit of a stretch. But also putting the flair 58 in the same category as manuals with it's plug in heating element is a bit of a stretch.
It's just so disappointing to see people continue to design manual espresso machines like the MHW-Bomber with hefty metal brew chambers that pull all the heat right out of your water. The Superkop seems neat but I don't know how they can justify charging such a high price for a machine with no pressure gauge, especially when the ratchet system will make it harder to tell what pressure you're at. The Robot is still obviously still the king of manual espresso machines and the flair58 is it's only real competition.
I have seen the Superkop for a while and considered it but the price point and lack of pressure gauge really put me off of it. And with MHW 3Bomber it just seems like it's got the exact issue I worried about there also, so I will continue to save up for a Flair 58 then.
thanks, lance. maybe the companies can take on your assessments and improve them! it would be in their best interest to. both are really cool designs and if they got just a bit more functional, i bet they'd get a lot of sales. (those price tags though... oof.)
I have the rok espresso, it's not perfect but considering the price it feels like it doesn't come with so many drawbacks as these more expensive machines do
These machines seem to add ever more complication (read expense) to a simple process, at more than $500 it seems to be more sensible to buy a pump machine all that faff with kettles and preheating has no appeal to me at those prices.
I'm obsessed with manual lever machines but I don't drink espresso very often and I don't have a lot of counter space. I'd like to be able to make myself an espresso or ristretto at home and I'm considering the 9Barista rather than a lever machine. Have you ever tried the 9Barista? How does it compare with the Flair 58?
My decision came down to similar options (i.e. 9Barista vs Flair58/Robot/similar), and I ended up grabbing the 9Barista. I have been very happy with it, making very consistent espresso daily. I do wonder about lever machines still, though, as there's not much to "play" with on the 9Barista. I love the espresso, and workflow is quite smooth and fast at this point -- about 10-15 minutes total to make espresso, steam milk, make breakfast and enjoy! The only variations I make are to grind when changing beans, so no temp changes, no pressure to fiddle with, etc. As long as I have the grind size right, I get a very good shot every time. But I wonder about all the fun these lever boys are having =) So there are my own quick thoughts, but I've ultimately got similar questions! What makes lever machines great? Am I missing out on something more? I was originally looking mainly at Flair, Robot, Aram, Kazak, 9Barista.
I live at elevation, and water boils at about 194F. I can't reasonably preheat with boiling water, which is also wasteful, as water here in Mexico is mostly from bottles. I really wish more of these machines had an electric preheater. Lance, what are your recommendations for brewing on these with cooler water due to pesky physics?
![[TH] FS vs BME - VCT Ascension Pacific - Lower Bracket Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wnygqsR2Fig/mqdefault.jpg)
Please consider hitting the like and subscribe if you haven't! Seriously the easiest and one of the best ways to support my work. Appreciate you all!
Leave a comment and tell me what you think about the video!
BetterHelp is a major scammy/Scummy company. I would advise reading up on them and turning down their sponsorships.
just think... you could emulate that "up and down" pressure profile from the Superkop on your Decent and potentially expose another earth shattering espresso shot pulling technique that goes against all traditional theories
I hit that like 👍
Great Video Lance! My only gripe is that you should cut ties with BH because of what they've done recently
your shirt is really cool!!! I want it!
your hair is cool!!!
your mustache matches your character, cool!!!
your eyeglasses are cool!!
you are a cool dude -- not just by appearance, but also personality. You're the man!!!
The great thing about a wall mounted lever machine is you put a sign over it to “Pull in case of [caffeine] emergency”
Ok that would be epic actually
Brilliant.
Strietman had a wall mounted lever at one time.
I know maybe I’m being too much a robot groupie but when I use the robot i think that the manual espresso makers need to calm down, the robot figured it out. All steel, no preheat necessary (unless light), easy clean up, cool look, gives rich gooey espresso, like it’s it. It’s the one.
The flair does the exact same thing. Just don’t preheat it lol.
The robot has easier workflow
@@spyk124 the robot has less thermal loss than flair- anyone could forgo preheating but with robot you don’t need to lol and it’s a smaller profile than flair
I'll keep my robot thank you!
I have had a Robot...loved it, but sold it. The arms hurt my hands. Just purchased, but have not received yet, the Superkop. Can't wait!
I used a ROK for a couple of years before moving to an HX machine. Manual machines a great way to learn espresso.
i really like the Superkop design! mounted to a wall would be a dream but it needed to be a strong installation :D
The installation is very simple, the wall needs to be reasonably sturdy but overall the lever force is minimal on the wall.
"food safe" plastic, just keep in mind they replace one component/solvent in the plastic for an other that just hasn't been researched..... yet. That doesn't make it safe. Flair 58 still king with holding heat/pre-heat.
But it's nice to see more brands coming with different variations!
That doesn't make it not safe either. That said, humanity can benefit by plastic induced infertility😂
@@veganpotterthevegan "humanity can benefit by plastic induced infertility" You might have a point but.... countries where the population is growing at the moment aren't the best educated, those are not the countries where you expect (much) coffee devices like this. Let's not go off topic any further, I stick to metal and glass 😜
@@yspegelAgreed, metal and glass only. Especially leaded glass and cadmium. Oh, wait, I guess additives make a big difference even with metal and glass :)
@@veganpotterthevegan there's a fast and simple way you can help fight the population crisis, my friend.
@@yspegel it's just a happy side effect of the topic😎
Thank you for your review as lever is my next rabbit hole after your reply to me about flow profiling. I always appreciate your videos and super accurate reviews
I am a satisfied owner of a Flair 58. I have had it for more than a year and I find it fantastic, great versatility for different roast degrees and just perfectly build. I also own a Flair Classic that I use for traveling and at my office, and its always a conversation starting. Lance, thanks for your great videos, I really enjoy them.
Got my 1st lever machine in flair, now la pavoni
If I had the budget for either a Superkop or Bomber, I'd certainly get a La Pavoni instead.
That second mult-pump jobbie might be better as a wheel so that the pressure does not get released each pump.
The fact that BOMBER have a blind shaker but decided to include a leveling tool, it's hilarious.
These days the Flair 58x has the same heating element as the 58 and 58 plus. You just need to add the controller and power supply to convert a 58x into a 58. A must if you're into light roasts in my book.
Great review Lance & Hugo!
It’s a myth that light roast always mandates high temps. 1:2 ratio 15s turbos @ 86C is how a lot of people get the very best results with high extracting burrs like 98mm HU.
@@RegrinderAlert whatever tastes good! I'm a preheat at 3, kettle at 99ºC person but to each it's own.
@@danymeeuwissen5973 Fully agree 👍 Just wanted to point out that for certain recipe-water-burrset combinations, some parameters will be ideal outside the expected range.
LAnce, I love you. I just purchased a Superkop. Can't wait to get it. Chasing the GOD shot. However, I am easy to please. Just want to keep it simple, and still be able to have a good shot, even if the shit hits the fan!
Lance, I really enjoy your videos. You always speak your mind honestly, and your videos are always very informative and scientifically sound. I've always found you likable because, like you, I have a passion for vintage espresso machines. I love the old technology, the look, the craftsmanship behind them, and the longevity of these old machines. Great content as always!
If you are really interested in a Faema Velox wall mounted machine, feel free to contact me. I have one in my basement that I have never gotten around to restoring.
And as I can see, an old Faema Mercurio has moved in with you ;) will there be a video about it eventually? That was and still is my dream machine.
Greetings from Austria ✌️
Oh my! I would love it! Can you shoot me an email at Lance@lancehedrick.coffee?
I don't think these are even comparable to the 58. A Pro 2 would be fairer, and I think they both fall short of that benchmark.
Then there's the huge levers! Certainly not as counter top friendly as their rivals.
I’m in the market for a lever machine. I hear so many good things about the flair (besides the hearing unit and the cords that come along with it) so I’m excited to see how this review goes
The bomber is on sale right now. But 60°C coffee is absolutely useless. Nobody fits preheating into their workflow. I do like their baskets though. The 15g DEX is my daily driver and "fancy basket".
Lance can you also review the portable espresso brewer? Cheers.
These machines are crazy and too expensive IMO. Not to mention I’m over the moon finding a “Lightly used” Cafelat Robot Barista with an extra basket on eBay for $325 Woo Hoo! I considered the Flair 58, but couldn’t pass up this ROBOT! It’s almost impossible to pull a bad shot with it!
This makes me wonder if you have any videos on the ROK lever machines.
The f58 is an amazing machine that is just hard to beat, but it’s definitely also more the machine for the enthusiasts compared to say a robot that is an easier package to get into. For light yeah it’s not an easy thing to beat.
You can blow torch it
Would love to see how these stack up against the odyssey argos
these manual machines are not for me, but i'm always here to watch a new banger video from the worlds most jacked and ripped coffee youtuber
After the recent torrential downpour of fat phobic comments towards me, I appreciate this haha
well you are as big as the rock so it's understandable people can be confused :p
also, for real, i am so sorry that humans are just mean and hateful towards your body :(
even if those people had a partner and children and life as beautiful as yours they would never be able to realize what they had
Coffee is my therapist
Damn i was hoping for the new Linea mini review.. but ...oh well
Polycarbonate water cup? Down to the pit of espresso hell
If only the S7 also had a heated brew chamber..
So I've been wondering: Don't you already lose a ton of heat with those gooseneck spout type kettles? I have trouble imagining that the water going into the machine was anywhere near boiling...
I have done temp testing. It does lose heat, but nothing insane to be sure. With a preheat, you can have water sitting around 95 in the chamber. It will lose heat as you pump it through, though, so probably brewing closer to 92ish
@@LanceHedrick That's interesting to know, thanks. I was just wondering if those spouts aren't actually something of a stumbling rock for the enthusiasts who do care for exact measurements etc...
For $200 more, I would have expected the first one to have better thermal stability. There's just no excuse to not be able to retain or generate heat - a little more time researching materials and heating methods would go a long way to creating a standout product.
who is carrying these and moving them while traveling? makes more sense in a RV or at work if you got your own office etc. But on vacation, just find a coffee shop
At $800 you are almost at the argos odyssey price range and it has a boiler.
I am still waiting for a proper review on the Argos.
Seems to be great but a qualified opinion would be nice.
@@FNU_SNU seems like the people who have them on Home Barista and EAF discord really like them. It looks like batch 2 is available for preorders so probably more will be out in the wild soon for review.
@@FNU_SNUagreed.
Its a shame they make some nice stuff....i think, i wouldn't know. That logo and branding has been the reason to move on. Yes i guess i am that shallow but i have it look and touch it every single day 3-4 times.
the PROBLEM with flair, is that with the metal construction, *you'd think* it would be durable, but NO. so many reports of breakage and of the lever, the frame. and the company doesn't seem to stand by their products as much as you'd think. :/ i was sad to discover this, because i'd wanted one. but part of the allure of MANUAL MACHINES is to *not* have it prone to breakage like the regular machines.
Oh definitely. That's an upside of the superkop
Yes, Superkop will not have this issue and with only 5 moving parts that can be easily replaced it will stand the test of time. Espresso for Life!
@@LanceHedrick we agree 🙂
Nice to see the Flair isn't the best manual machine anymore. Could you help me out?
For a while now, I've been searching for a good espresso machine that doesn't break the bank, but where you do need to put some effort into to get better coffee than on a fully automated Bambino. That's why I first wanted to buy a Gaggia Classic Pro. The big downside for me is that besides espresso, I also drink 125ml Americano on a regular base, cause I don't want a drink that is gone in 5 minutes in the evening. As I'm not the only person in my house drinking Americano, I don't think a Gaggia is my best option.
Do you know an all metal dual boiler/HX espressomachine that doesn't break the bank (say, under 1-1.1K) that will probably be on my kitchen counter for the next 30 years orso (not taking human error into account)? 1 note though. Assuming you won't recommend a Decent, I'll probably see if I can add a Gaggiuino in which case I want a machine that has a very cheap or no PID of possible.
Thanks for your reply in advance
😂😂 the suitcase!
That company needs a rebrand anyway
Preheating is time consuming and a nuisance with the Sonic S7... and with the Superkop? Whoever thought that repeated shots of espresso made in hot plastic should be fired. Should've used borosilicate glass.
The watercup is heat resisted and therefore can be removed immediately after pulling the shot and you can go straight to another round of shots. We have food stalls on the streets of Bangkok using the Superkop constantly because of the easy of use. Problem with glass and metal is the heat transfer and loss
@@Superkop_espresso There has been study after study about the dangers of plastics in our environment and microplastics in our bodies. I'm sure the Superkop is well engineered and works perfectly as intended. I can't fathom, however, why anyone would develop a coffee or espresso routine around plastic, made from a myriad of cancer causing chemicals.
Call me crazy, but if you have to preheat one of those...twice, and it costs hundreds of dollars, it's not good. $850 for a chinese made espresso puller...you're getting ripped off.
Over here one of these new lever machines are about 5x the price of a basic Flair or 2x the price of the Robot. Don't think I'll "upgrade" from my Robot soon.
All hail the Robot, the simple king.
Not heated, which may not always be needed but it's a different workflow regardless for those times you do need it
I swapped off my Flair58 to the Robot. Absolutely GOATed and thundies or the basket plug make preheating the piston a lot easier
@@Cenot4phits still fast, preheating or not
There's a ton of solutions to preheat the piston, I ditched my flair and never looked back. Light roast or dark, it's the simplest, cleanest workflow for excellent espresso.
The robot all the way, look forward to my brew every day
The Flair 58 has a couple of predecessor models to work out the kinks. That being said, any lever machine will have to match not just Flair’s ability to retain temp, but match it in price for it to be a real contender.
I can’t believe they still haven’t redesigned the MHW 3BOMBER logo. It looks like it was thrown together in Word 97 😂
You have to hand it to Paul Pratt (or Faema with their Baby) - the Robot is a masterpiece. It may not have a heated group like the Flair 58, but due to its design it doesn't really need preheating unless you go for light roasts.
Even with light roasts you don't need to preheat. Just grind a lot finer and you get the same outcome: delicious shots.
This M3WHbombing company needs to cool it with plastering their logo on everything. They also desperately need rebranding because that name and logo are impossibly complicated.
Hideous branding. Literally no matter how good a product they make (and it feels like mostly mid/stolen ideas) I don’t need fucking war machines on my bean juicers
@@ThePorkTree 😅 exactly, I wanted to get their blind shaker but I’m not going to be staring at this logo every day when I make coffee in the morning.
@@DigitalicaEGhad this exact thought this morning while looking at their stuff
Theyre a pretentious company
Man do I want a Robot. It looks so bomb proof and it's so cute. Might not have the potential of the Flair 58, but it looks more than good enough.
The heating element on the flair saves so much time and effort. Plus, the standard 58mm portafilter means you can use all kinds of accessories with it. I love it.
@@VishnuRajam4x4I agree. It depends on a person’s needs but I use the flair58 twice a day and the heating element makes all the difference for me (with the plunger pulled up to heat the piston too): turn it on when I wake up for a first shot just before starting work and then I can easily walk over even during a meeting to turn it on to heat up again (to pull a second shot during my break or even on a non video call).
The idea behind the robot is that you don't really have to preheat. I have one and I find the espresso it produces without preheating amazing. Maybe not just as good as the potential a flair58 has but I love that the robot has no electronics or cables. I think the two machnies are close competitors, some up and downsides on both and it really comes down to personal taste.@@VishnuRajam4x4
It depends if you want an easy fun ride of a machine that is ready to use but that is somewhat less versatile, that doesn’t allow to change all sort of components the robot is definitely the pick, do you like to explore, learn, experiment, drink light roast experimental processed coffee, are an enthusiast and don’t mind a steeper learning curve and offer loads of accessories the f58 is for you, I really don’t think the two speak to the same crowds. While the f58 for sure can make any sort of shot (within its volume restriction) due to its nature I’ll probably go robot if I was just going to pull a medium roasted comfort shot.
@@mikni4069 Saying the Robot can't pull light roasts is a bit absurd.
Lance you should do an indepth Robot video. Da real king.
As a Flair Pro 2 owner, I know firsthand how awful the preheating trouble can be on manual machines, and it's honestly ridiculous that anything MORE expensive than the 58 can't hit brew temperatures of 90 degrees. Even worse, you can't use the preferred preheating method of most pro 2 users of placing the brew chamber over your kettle. The SuperKop is very aesthetically appealing and looks neat, but there's absolutely no competition with the 58 without a pressure gauge, which is non-negotiable especially at that price imo
I have a kettle that opens wide enough for me to drop the whole thing inside and boil with my brew water, and I cut a notch at the end of an old wooden spoon handle to hook out the chamber when it’s piping hot. Once I had the practice down I’m pulling shots with great temp stability and ease. I’ve been deciding whether to upgrade to the Flair 58+ but I’m happy enough with my setup that I’ll wait for their gen 2 update.
As a Flair Signature user. I just cant
Never thought I’d comment about an ad in a TH-cam video, but thank you for being brave enough to be open about your struggles with your mental health. It’s so important that we normalise the topic and the more people that speak up about it the better.
Thanks Lance!
Sorry to spoil the mood but even though it's good to talk about mental health, BetterHelp is not the way to go. It's a terrible company that has made shady business and ethical decisions in a space where that should absolutely not be acceptable. If you need therapy, please go seek a therapist that works for you without using a company like BetterHelp
It seems like my comment got deleted but to summarize [the sponsor] is a really terrible company that engages in shady practices
@@quarkonium3795 and how r u qualified to say that? Did the bad man hurt u?
@@blingbling2001I don't claim any qualifications, but it's now public knowledge that they illegally shared sensitive customer health data with advertisers and are now the target of a huge class-action lawsuit. There's also been a lot of criticism from people in the industry of their practices with regards to Therapy and accusations of insensitivity when it comes to major tragedies like the Travis Scott concert. I'm not against getting Therapy at all, quite the opposite. I have a great therapist right now. All I'm saying is that if you need therapy you should try to seek out a licensed therapist that takes your insurance through other means
@@blingbling2001Also, I don't have anything against Lance as a creator. I am subscribed and I love his videos, I just question his choice of sponsor for this video specifically
Will you be reviewing the Odyssey Argos at some point?
I am really curious about it but can't get myself to "pull the lever" on the purchase without some non manufacturer statement on it.
I have an Argos on pre-order, hopefully it will arrive before the heat death of the universe. It isn't really comparable to these as it's heated and has a boiler, but it'd be great to see a comparison with the Cremina and a modded La Pavoni.
Dude…Betterhelp? After EVERYTHING we know???
Im lost,could you please fill me in
Bought a Flair 58 when my semi-automatic broke after 8years of service. Thought it would be a good temp solution (and a backup for future issues) until I decided on what my next espresso machine would be. Long story short, the Flair 58 is now my daily driver; not sure if I'll get another semi-automatic as this manual lever is just too enjoyable.
Glad to see other lever machines coming to market but agree that the Flair's temp stability and general workflow outshine these two competitors.
What your describing is the reason for the Superkop. We wanted to develop something that does not require a lot of service, has only a few parts that can be replace by yourself and makes great espresso.
The King isn't the Flair 58. The King was and still is the Cafelat Robot.
But me i prefer the cafelat robot
Man that super kop looked terrible. So inconsistent on both temp and pressure. Seems totally worthless.
By price point...pico presso, forge, newton or robot, flair 58. I think if your going to spend over 500 just get meticulous for temp and control when you can
What’s that app you’re using for measuring pressure and flow? I know you mentioned it somewhere but can’t find it
PRESSENSOR
Why the Flair get the title of the "King" , what about the Cafelat Robot?
Great video, I've been looking at the Flair. "Fun" story...I find myself single, with no espresso machine but in possession of an 1ZPresso K Ultra, Acaia Lunar and Stagg kettle. I think the only solution to this issue is to get the Flari 58....For the time being, I'm using my Aeropress.
I've learned a lot frm your videos. Thanks.
Yes and yes. For specialty beans and light roast ill go for the flair 58. For the everyday espresso or latte the robot is really good, and fast in startup.
Wondering why you think the robot can't pull good shots from a light roast..?
@@bali404 because of the thermal stability. the robot that is on stock setup is not hot enough to pull a good shot of light roast. Users who pull light roast on a robot do some pre heating stuff to have the piston on high temp.
The Bomber certainly caught my attention when I first saw it, but that is quite a hefty price tag for something that essentially does the same thing as the Flair. Perhaps if they made a less premium version without the wooden accents and added in thermal management around the chamber, it would be a strong contender.
Isn't betterhelp the company that was selling client data?
Hey there, great video! You need to take a look at the newton espresso S2!! similar to the flair 58, startup from new Zealand, only 330€, great design and almost no videos on it...
Lance, dear god, that cup in the beginning of the video, at 0:12-0:16, where did you get this beautiful cup sir? I have been looking for ones just like this forever and could not quite find the right thing.
Long live the Flair 58!
It seems to me, and I don't own a lever machine, that the 2 main engineering problems to overcome with these machines is 1. Getting enough heat into the group head, and 2. Having a lever that doesn't require too much bicep (and vertical space).
The Superkop is at least approaching both issues with novel solutions... I think it would be cool to see the Superkop people team up with the Robot people and release a lever machine together, they could call it "Robokop" 😂
Aram with a Flair-like heater would also solve these.
We will approach them 🙂
Just get La Pavoni with a Bong isolator and you have the best. Steam and also easy to maintain and spare parts around the corner. JM2C
Watching this sipping a perfect shot from my Robot…..
The Superkop looks insanely cool, totally agree wall mounted would be sick. But the vertical space it takes up on a counter is almost comical, given that it's rest position seems to be up. But glad to see solid R&D and industrial design in the lever space! Great video Lance
Overall we dont think the Superkop takes that much space on a counter top, but if it is too big you can always wallmount the mechanism and the wallset
@@Superkop_espresso Yeah, I'm probably an outlier, but in a galley-style kitchen, it just doesn't work for me without designing around it (if I want anything taller than my Europiccola I need to remove cabinets. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the machine, just not for me right now. Wall mounting is super cool, but I don't trust my 5 and 6 year old :) Cheers
Buy a new house :-) @@RichardStroffolino
Brewing light roasted espresso on my flair 58 while watching this and hearing that last little summary piece made it feel like a great choice for me!
Question though for lance or anyone else, anyone have an recs or videos to link me to for looking into higher end light roast espresso focused grinders? In the not too distant future I'm expecting to hit a decent professional milestone and think upgrading my grinder would be a good way to reward myself for that
Better help is a scam
Feeds content creator.
Is the robot still the queen?
Sad to not see the Espresso Forge on your channel in these comparisons. I know it's not the flashiest, but it has a full cylinder of water and can be easily pre-heated directly ontop of many gooseneck kettles. Steam it up to temp easily. I'd recommend the stainless version, lasts a lifetime and very easy to clean and service, and made in USA!
I guess hugo cut out the part about me discussing the forge. It is nice but wow is it tall. I've done a whole video on the forge.
@@LanceHedrick I missed that video i'll check it out, I'm sure though comparisons are always nice. To me commerical levers have a greater height to the spring lever, and that's often seen as a mechanical advantage. Many bars even put their machines up higher than normal counter height to give smaller baristas more weight advantage. Try letting body weight sink into the shot rather than pulling with your biceps! Just my 2c
Not even close to the Flair 58. They lack about everything that the 58 has. Silent, electrical preheat, compact, beautiful.
Staying with my 58, thanks.
Love how these look, but i dont think anything will be replacing my flair 58+ any time soon.
I could never buy an MHW-3BOMBER product because it would be a conversation starter in a bad way lol. Plus that suitcase ☠️... Could they at least reveal what the brand name even stands for?m
Still prefer flair model more, because of their simplicity looks. Just a stand, brewing chamber, and lever.
the nomad is king! the production quality on this vid is amazing. a lot of lever fever folks were looking fwd to this thx Lance.
I'm happy with my Flair Pro 2. I don't need a 58mm machine, I already got one (E61 machine) and prefer my Flair.
The brewing chamber is super easy to heat up using the lower part of a bialetti to steam it up, the lever is easily operatored two-handed,
and while not super cheap, it is still kind of affordable.
The flair produces incredible shots consistently and I just love to play with the lever to modulate the shot.
I'm not into the 3rd wave/light roast game, and for me I just love the thick, sweet, creamy espresso you can get with the flair.
The bomba looks great but honestly, if I'm about to spend that much money on a manual lever I would go all the way to a Cremina.Or a LaPav.
that is not a manometer it is a pressure gauge. With a manometer, you will be able to measure the fluid pressure. The instrument balances and creates a hydraulic pressure for measuring the pressure with a predetermined column of fluid. It lets you measure negative and high pressure
Manometer is just the greek word for pressure gauge. They're the same thing.
yeah, i think at the end of the day what is most likely going to cause me to spend more money is an improvement in workflow. And it seems both of these have quite a worse workflow compared to the flair 58; especially on light roasts; which is what i drink.
As for Dethroning the Flair 58; I think it's days are numbered as king if you can count the meticulous as the same category. Which is a bit of a stretch. But also putting the flair 58 in the same category as manuals with it's plug in heating element is a bit of a stretch.
These things are junk aren't they? What a bunch of hopelessly impractical scrap metal no-one will ever use on a daily basis. Ho hum.
It's just so disappointing to see people continue to design manual espresso machines like the MHW-Bomber with hefty metal brew chambers that pull all the heat right out of your water. The Superkop seems neat but I don't know how they can justify charging such a high price for a machine with no pressure gauge, especially when the ratchet system will make it harder to tell what pressure you're at. The Robot is still obviously still the king of manual espresso machines and the flair58 is it's only real competition.
I have seen the Superkop for a while and considered it but the price point and lack of pressure gauge really put me off of it. And with MHW 3Bomber it just seems like it's got the exact issue I worried about there also, so I will continue to save up for a Flair 58 then.
Hi, we dont think you will miss the gauge and after a while the feel and pressure on the lever will become natural and very repeatable
thanks, lance. maybe the companies can take on your assessments and improve them! it would be in their best interest to. both are really cool designs and if they got just a bit more functional, i bet they'd get a lot of sales. (those price tags though... oof.)
We are always listening to the market and consumers and overtime we might be able to add some of the suggested improvements
Honestly at thise price points, the Argos Odyssey is only an extra 1-200 and that looks way more impressive and includes a boiler instead
Thankfully the king is still relevant, otherwise my wallet will be crying again. (Robot is just too expensive to ship to my home country)
none of these will replace my Flair Pro
4:03 That bomber case with a plane on it for flights is next level... I almost want it just for the case.
I have the rok espresso, it's not perfect but considering the price it feels like it doesn't come with so many drawbacks as these more expensive machines do
These machines seem to add ever more complication (read expense) to a simple process, at more than $500 it seems to be more sensible to buy a pump machine all that faff with kettles and preheating has no appeal to me at those prices.
The Flair 58 competitors look nice, but still fall short in terms of workflow and cost.
Just looking at the price, the flair is not dethroned.... $300 markup nah flair got this one imo
I'm obsessed with manual lever machines but I don't drink espresso very often and I don't have a lot of counter space. I'd like to be able to make myself an espresso or ristretto at home and I'm considering the 9Barista rather than a lever machine. Have you ever tried the 9Barista? How does it compare with the Flair 58?
My decision came down to similar options (i.e. 9Barista vs Flair58/Robot/similar), and I ended up grabbing the 9Barista. I have been very happy with it, making very consistent espresso daily. I do wonder about lever machines still, though, as there's not much to "play" with on the 9Barista. I love the espresso, and workflow is quite smooth and fast at this point -- about 10-15 minutes total to make espresso, steam milk, make breakfast and enjoy! The only variations I make are to grind when changing beans, so no temp changes, no pressure to fiddle with, etc. As long as I have the grind size right, I get a very good shot every time. But I wonder about all the fun these lever boys are having =) So there are my own quick thoughts, but I've ultimately got similar questions! What makes lever machines great? Am I missing out on something more? I was originally looking mainly at Flair, Robot, Aram, Kazak, 9Barista.
@@hubbax69 thank you for sharing your experience. I might take the same path...
I live at elevation, and water boils at about 194F. I can't reasonably preheat with boiling water, which is also wasteful, as water here in Mexico is mostly from bottles. I really wish more of these machines had an electric preheater.
Lance, what are your recommendations for brewing on these with cooler water due to pesky physics?
A Superkop can make a nasty cold brewed espresso
Wow, the reinvention of the wheel. Human beings with money must be really bored…
Sorry, nothing beats the heating element of the flair. Its cheaper and the flow routine is less messy
Very fun to see more levers out in the wild, as well as another Lance video. Happy V-day!
The robot seems to beat all of them
Actually the temperature would go up slightly as you apply pressure. :)