BEFORE FREAKING OUT: I got Daddy Hoff's explicit permission to troll him. He enjoyed it. Let's not get too serious here. Posting this before any freak out. Also, like and subscribe would be highly appreciated if you enjoyed! (edit)- ALSO please understand this video is a comparison. Yes, I do not use the actively heating element of the flair 58. The flair 58 with heating element is $600. Without, it is $500. So, one reason was to keep things equal. Secondly, I did loads of temp testing in my previous flair 58 video. figured it was good to show what people with the x need to do. Thirdly, I wanted to level the playing field. This is a comparison. NOT a showdown (which is best). Please view accordingly and do NOT get offended if I don't declare the one you own as best. Thanks
I wonder why they couldn't (on the aram) just essentially drill a hole in the side at the bottom of the group and shove a (threaded) pressure gauge right there. 🤔 I'm not a mechanical engineer, but that'd be the first thing I'd try. Still though, the pressure gauge inside the threads is pretty cool.
Yes, I finished the 35 minute video. Good comparison though. I have a flare pro two and it makes some fantastic shots, but I understand the 58 is a much better machine in terms of workflow.
Would love to know if the ring pressure gauge has to be maintained or a certain cleaning regimen. It would suck if it started malfunctioning and giving incorrect readings without you being aware of the problem. (or why your shots didn’t taste right) Great video!
I am using the cafelar robot for three months now. I absolutely love it. There are so many ways to create your own style of espresso with it. I love the cute design and the strong build. There are still so many tricks to explore with the robot. So I wont get bored with it
Where are you located? I am in India and cannot find an easy way for me to buy the Cafelat Robot here. Any idea/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Wow, another masterpiece of a video! Thanks for showing the world a Brazilian product! Here in the Brazilian coffee forum, someone managed to get a shipment of thin heat coils custom ordered from aliexpress to fit through the top holes, to turn the Aram into am actively heated machine. In my opinion, This, along with the pressure gauge, makes it a very versatile machine
One nice trick for the Aram preheating from Brazilian forums is that the holes on top have been enlarged in more recent versions to fit those cartridge style heating elements. So basically you can fill it with water, stick the heater in and can bring it to a boil inside of the machine without having to keep running water through it. It does take a while but works really well for getting it nice and boiling hot. Pulled many fantastic light roast shots with it.
I have been using Flairs for 5-6 years and really love them. I've only used the classic/signature/Pro models and with those I can get AMAAAAZING shots including from the lightest roasted beans you'll ever find. And now they have the Flex which is soooo cheap but has the same capabilities. That's amazing. Just crazy value. Back when I got started the only options were the Rok and the Flair Classic. These other two machines in the video have some design aspects that look really great. One that is awesome is being able to use normal baskets in the Aram. That's really cool.
Your previous video about the Robot inspired me to buy one and it’s honestly my most favourite purchase EVER!!! Thank you very much for reaffirming how amazing the robot is and keep up the good work!
cool. I already own a Cafelat Robot but still watched the whole video anyways lol. I was considering the Flair 58x before but after watching all the extra steps to pre-heat and potential mess I am very happy I opted for the Robot. Simple pre heat or no pre heat at all, and no electronics needed. I do still wish the Robot allowed me to use 58mm accessories though. I kind of wish there was a manual espresso machine with the robots piston and basket but Flairs handle/base.
Man, your videos just so insightful, interesting, and enjoyable to watch. Thank you so much for making and sharing these with all of us. Us coffee geeks are lucky to have you!
ROBOT FTW! 🙌 unless you’re light roast hardcore person, there’s no contest in terms of comfort, workflow, maintenance, footprint, built quality (robustness), minimalistic approach, portability. Aesthetics is up to the eyes of the beholder. Finally, I found it ridiculously easy to achieve great shots almost instantly. Within a month of use I was pulling shots that easily rivalled and even surpassed top specialist coffee places around. Best investment ever! More money for an end game grinder (which more important) than a speced up bells and whistles boiler machine.
@@TheRockyBalboa100 medium/light yes (with preheating for piston + basket / VERY WELL). Light roast no. At least I haven’t managed good results no matter what I do. *I am always comparing my results with my local roaster where I get the beans from.
@@TheRockyBalboa100 sorry for the late response. Ask around though, maybe others have found ways to work it for light roast. I have a friend who claims he can pull light roast shots. We disagree on the matter but 🤷 what can I say. Having tried loads of great specialty coffee across the world I think I have a good grasp on whether a shot is successful or not. And light roasts, for me at least, are never good with the Robot, sadly.
Yes sir, we do finish watching your videos. I love the deep dive stuff, where I can get into the nitty gritty details of the things I enjoy. Plus, there's always one or two comments that really get my creative juices growing and trying new things with my coffee. So, yeah. Thanks.
I have the robot, I never preheat and it’s excellent with dark roasts. The basket is also much easier to use when filling from my Pharos hand grinder and I think it’s better for other grinders as well because it’s a deep basket rather than a shallow basket that needs a funnel or something.
I've had my Cafelat for 4 years now. Absolutely love it. One thing - i dont think it's necessary to go to 9 bar. You get beautiful shots with a 2 bar pre infusion, ramp to 6 bar and back down to 2.
Oh, I must say, even though I won't get an Aram (I like medium and light roasts, so not very practical), I love its design and the pressure gauge. What an ingenious way of showing pressure, that's so nifty! I also so enjoy the design of the Cafelat, it's so adorable! However, I am still set on the Flair 58! Thanks, Lance, very informative and fun as usual.
I used to own a Robot but gave up on home espresso. I recently purchased a 58+ as a missed espresso so much. As Lance said, the Robot is incredibly easy to use and more fool proof, but the 58+ is definitely a more capable machine - and I wanted 58mm accessories... You can't go wrong with either! I do miss the little Robot on my counter top, though. Beautiful little machine.
@@sixelanavi03 Really enjoying it. Its very easy to get a proper god shot every time that tastes fantastic with great texture. I'd say its definitely a more textural experience than the Robot. With that said, if I had a Robot I'd probably just keep the Robot, unless you really just want a change. The Robot is just as capable, its way nicer to look at IMO, and its easier to use (a higher margin for error).
Watched the whole video. I would add that the robot mittens help a lot with pulling a shot and making it more comfortable. I was anti mittens for a while then got some. It is the move. Also orphan espresso the grinder company makes a lot of cool wood accent pieces for the robot and some other tools like a tamper and a wdt/rake
Watched till the end. I love the idea and aesthetics of the Robot and it will definitely be my first espresso machine, this video just further confirmed it. The workflow does seem kind of messy on the flair and not having to rely on preheat seems like a huge win for me.
I think you'll be happy. As someone who's tried both the robot is definitely the better workflow out of the two. Don't get me wrong the flare 58 is still a good machine, but there's a lot going on with it and requires more maintenance and a weaker workflow. The robot is just the perfect sweet spot.... It's the one I kept as my daily driver
I spent 3+ years carrying a Robot with me throughout Europe, and it was fabulous. I only needed an electric kettle which every Airbnb has, and a good hand grinder. If not for needing to limit my total luggage, I’d still have it - totally recommended.
@@chunkiddcheung3889 I have been using a BPlus from Taiwan for 6-7 years. The Comandante was recommended, but I don’t have large enough hands to hold it easily. The burrs on the BPlus are very good and it’s well-built, but there are three negatives - the metal is smooth enough that I really have to grip it like a gorilla for light roasts, the threaded grounds holder requires care to not cross-thread, and there is popcorning. So, results are great, and adjustment is super easy, but it’s 1050g, and carrying that plus the Robot in addition to everything else is a pain. For home, I’d keep it just because I don’t see that spending the same amount again would improve results. For travel in places with great coffee, I’d visit the shops. For elsewhere, given that I have way too much other luggage, I’d get a ZP6 or QS2 and good tea bags for hybrid pour over/steeping.
@@chunkiddcheung3889 I had a BPlus Apollo. It was a bit of a pain dealing with the 1050g weight and the threaded catch cup which can cross-thread very easily. However, the Commandante was just too big for my hands, and the Kinu wasn't in stock at the time. The grind quality is very good -- excellent Turkish and espresso, but for drip, there is no point in spending that money when a 1ZPresso QS2 is half the weight. If I weren't traveling at all, I'd have stuck with my HG-1 for espresso/Turkish and a ZP6 for drip. But, I'm cutting down on everything since it has to be carried, and that means a QS2 and small tea bags to filter.
Finished it, twice! And just retired my Flair Classic after picking up a used Robot Barista with extra basket. I’m totally in love with it! 💕 Impossible to pull a bad shot, and I never preheat it at all! Engineer’s win all the way!
Okay i lost my shit. Those concentric circles for pressure and incredible. So simple to the user, straightforward and adds so much to the aesthetic of the device
I've used both the Robot and Flair 58. I agree with your assessment of both. I personally prefer the Robot for both UX and aesthetics. My only complaint is the stock gauge orientation.
Not sure if that “squirrel” bit is a reference to Up but I love to hear it. My parents say it all the time and I’m so used to hearing it from them, it’s funny hearing it from others.
Lance not only do we finish your videos but I think most of us are left wanting more. I mean, I don’t know what else you could have done, that was about as thorough as it gets, but still!
I'm a happy Robot user and I just love it to bits. It's the simplest to get started as an espresso beginner and the looks are hard to beat! I'd get the mitten add on to make it more comfortable to push down.
Excellent showdown! I love my Cafelat Robot - it's just perfect for my needs and the community around it is great. It would be great to see a comparison between Aram Coffee Maker and Kazak Rota. Aram is beautiful, and Kazak seems quite efficient (and it uses similar mechanism).
Regarding gasket longevity. I have the flair pro 2, and I always heat my group and basket up on top of a mocapot base, while I prep my grounds, let the water boil. I leave it on boil for 5-8min, until the temp sticker is at 100C, and then some more to make sure. Doing that since 3 years, no issues yet. During cleaning I found them to be as good as my new backup gaskets I have just in case.
Enjoyed the video and very glad you shared about pressure/force needed for the 3. It is what held me back from getting a lever. Would prefer the Aram for me then Flair. Thanks for the video.
Great video. I think Portaspresso should've earned a shout-out for releasing what I think is the original screw mechanism espresso maker back in 2009: Rossa HC. You can put a bit more water in the Robot's basket and use a regular kettle to up the starting temperature to ~95C.
Amazing comparison, thanks! I love my robot!! My game changer (thanks Reddit) was the overflow method. Just let the boiling water overflow in the sink when pouring in the basket. Result is a much higher temperature at the start pulling the shot without loosing much time!
The Robot doesn't need to be preheated for any roast. You can compensate for the thermal drop off with a much finer grind and longer preinfusion. The outcome is the same: higher extraction. Even with very light roats, doing it this way removes the preheating step and produces delicious, well extracted shots.
I've had success with PT's Coffee Flor Del Sol, which I personally consider very light. This method isn't perfect, and the potential for astringency is there, but I've had success doing it this way. I just don't like the additional preheating step and this method produces great cups with less fuss. With 100C water off the boil, I aim for a 20-30 second preinfusion at 2 bar, then slowly ramp to 6-7 bar and proceed with a declining pressure profile throughout the shot. I never had issues with bitterness, but perhaps that's partially due to my lower pressures overall? The cups are wonderfully sweet, well extracted and highlight the finer notes of the bean. You should give it a try for sure!
I watched through no problem. Great comparison. I did not know about the Aram, which looks great, but the manual Robot automatically won my heart when I saw it the 1st time.
Brilliant video Lance - Really, really useful comparison. Personally, I’m with you on liking the Aram in so, so many respects; just a huge shame they haven’t come up with a better insulated model, which seems like it would be an incredibly easy fix. Almost tempted to buy one and strip off the lovely wooden outer and make a DIY insulated jacket for it. That aside, I think it would be my preferred choice. Otherwise, maybe I’ll just sit tight and wait for them to come up with a Mark II version and hope they come up with an aesthetically pleasing insulation fix 🤞
I preferred the f58 because of its versatility, it’s heat management, temperature stability, no need for modding and it allows me to use a huge variety of standardised accessories such as the new precisions basket such as Weber Unibasket. I was never that huge of a fan of the pressure control of the Robot but that’s probably largely due to me having use the one arm levers before, so I knew that box and can get a nice gentle and precise control with it. If one has never tried manual espresso then yes f58 is definitely a steeper learning curve and can be less forgiving then the Robot, but largely be handled by just getting more forgiving baskets. But honestly I prefer the faster, more normal less faff workflow that resembles a normal espresso machine. The Robot is honestly more for the tinkering type if you intend to use it for light, if one doesn’t like tinkering and drinking light I honestly wouldn’t go with it, but it’s a fun little machine that make great espresso. I do agree that turning the preheat off before pulling the shot on f58 is advisable for most coffees, but I did try some coffee where it actually improved with the rising temperature profile. If one get the f58x there isn’t really much to actually repair on except the gasket. It’s a rather simplistic machine Gasket material can withstand up until about 200 degrees Celsius so no chance they fail by heating it up that way, same with the silicone grease you use to lubricate it with.
I bought robot few days ago, it is impossible to ruin a shot, such a great machine. Might as well sell my Mitica, I use it mostly for frothing these days anyway😂
Thank you so much! I've seen so much marketing for the Flair that I was worried it's competitors wouldn't have as strong of a community. I'm most-interested in the Aram after watching this, but I do drink a lot of light roasts and will make sure I'm ready to accommodate them before buying.
Been watching a lot of reviews for Cafelat Robot and Flair, I decided to a buy Cafelat Robot last month with 1zpresso x-pro s grinder full manual set up still waiting for my Manual Milk Steamer and Cafelat accessories. been doing good tasting shots with the Robot really like the workflow also you can make good shot without preheat that a win for me the build quality is great build like a tank most important is it is easy to clean.
Just finished the video. The way you use your Flair 58+ is actually my daily workflow on my Flair 58x. but I don't understand how you got only 85° after preheating. What I usually do with mine is I don't remove the gauge and the arm from the piston when I preheat it, and wait until the steam actually furiously bubbles over the gap between the arm and the brew head before removing it and start brewing. The last time I check, I get 92-93 °C water at around the beginning of extraction even without preheating the portafilter and the basket. It takes me about 4 minutes to reach that temperature which is actually the time I needed to grind my coffee and do puck prep. The trick to get it faster is to fill the kettle with just about 200ml of water so it boils faster.
Great to see the breakdown of manual espresso machines, according to which roast profile you prefer, thanks @LanceHedrick. Personally I like moving around from light to dark and my flair signature is more than sufficient for that and a better budget option.
I just bought the Cafelat Robot because it has a small footprint, it is built like a tank and the only thing to break down might be an easy to replace cheap o-ring. The Robot loses very little heat since the only heat mass is the relatively light basket. The piston never touches the water, there is an air gap. You’ll only lose three or four degrees. This is a kitchen appliance you can pass down to your grandchildren.
I understand but the temp loss is as shown in my videos regardless of what makes logical sense to you. I do love the robot but let's be realistic and grounded in facts.
@ Thanks for bringing me back to reality! I’ve been reading too many Robot fanboy comments, lol! I’m a retired engineer, I’ll figure out how to easily preheat things. I think covering the inside holes of the spout with food grade silicone and making a quick release handle on the outside holes should make it easy to preheat the portafilter, basket and piston. Pour in some boiling water, let it preheat, take off, put “spout” aside, quickly dry inside of basket, then make your espresso.
I always love your videos! Thanks for all that you do! I have the Flair 58. The machine is pretty amazing. I, on the other hand, am obviously NOT. First, I'm a dark roast guy. I have a J Max manual grinder (thanks in no small part to your reviews). I have tried numerous different beans. MY espresso shots are crap! I'm frustrated to the point of regretting my purchase of a manual machine. I wanted the manual machine for the process. I expected a learning curve. However...
I went back and forth between the F58 and the Robot, ended up with the robot because of its simplicity, ease of repair and build quality. I couldn't be more happy. My only critique is the pressure that the arms/claws put on your hands is kind of brutal if you do more than one or 2 shots. I bought the weighted end-ball thingys (Update: mittens) for the hands and it has helped but am in the process of making some larger wooden ones to to distribute the pressure on my hands a little bit better. Nonetheless, love my robot!
I've got Flair 58 electric version and 1ZPresso J-Max S - very pleasing manual combo. I ordered J-Ultra a few days ago and it should arrive to me by the end of this week. I quite like to make espresso this way, but I wouldn't like to preheat a grouphead by putting it on the kettle. I'd rather keep my electric module on XD PS: Dialing in with J-Max is totally unproblematic. Absolutely brilliant grinder, so it's succesor will, undoubtely, be as good as previous model.
Just finished watching the whole video. It's nice to know the pre-heat workflow, which is a very important part of the process with manual machines. I feel like going with the Flair pro 2 might be ideal for me since I prefer filter coffee, and spending around +150 or more for a manual espresso machine doesn't feel like is going to take the game one step beyond.
Awesome comparison! Thank you for this video, this is exactly what I needed, I'll be upgrading my Neo Flex soon and this is really helpful. I watched the whole video, too.
As a manual lever lover, your video conveyed so much and was a real pleasure to watch! Owning both the 58 and the Bot, 100% in agreement with your findings : Bot is so forgiving (use it with my kids on the weekends to share the passion, they love their time helping daddy with coffee playing), and really shines at medium roast espresso, while Flair is more “precise” and its thermal management makes it perfect for light roasts (that’s what I use it for). Now, can I curse you a bit for highlighting that concentric ring pressure control? Now I want one of these… 🤣 Two things which I felt are also quite important: 1/ the puck feedback you get from the Bot makes it more intuitive to use than the Flair, and 2/ the Flair 58 (because of its standard size) is a perfect companion to a e61/traditional machine for getting into flow profiling.
Cafelat Robot I have been using for years wanted a stainless steel option, no complaints. I am french roast Stumptown guy, maybe not as exotic as some, but this unit is just great.
Ohhh, the Aram is an amazing bit of clever engineering, I really like it. If these machines were actually all the same price-point I might get one (I do not consider everything < $500 to all be the same point, personally... and Aram doesn't even make that range), but Flair just has more affordable options. The Nomad is tempting though, not included in this showdown, but Nomad is the only one of these manual machines that can do longs and sprovers. But really probably going to go Flair.
absolutely loved the video. Especially the dramatics with the singing. I drink all roast levels, it depends on my taste for the day. I tend to stick to Light, medium-light, and medium-roasted coffees. I am thinking about getting a manual espresso machine to make Pumpkin Spice lattes at home and it would be nice for it to be portable as well for travel. What do you all reccomend?
The Flair 58 without the preheater definitely seems like a strange product to me when Flair already has the Pro 2 in their lineup. The preheat on the pro 2 just seems more manageable than the workflow needed for manually preheating the 58. If the 58mm basket ecosystem is that important to you, your either already bought into some expensive espresso stuff, or planning on spending more, so why would you cheap out on the weirdly compromised workflow?
Makes it more portable. Some people preferred the simplicity of it; adding electricity was almost sacrilege! After the Pro2 I’m definitely all in with the electric heating, though 😂
Nice! I am glad that I got one of the last completely polished Robots before Paul stopped making them for effort reasons back in the days. I really should use it more often but since I got a Decent three years ago… 🤷
The pressure gauge on the Aram reminds me of a scene in “The forbidden planet” where a very similar mechanism was counting down the detonation of the planet.
As someone who owned both the Robot and the F58 I really appreciated this video! I think you pointed everything out pretty well, even if I don't agree with everything you said. I overall prefer the F58 which is why I sold my Robot but honestly, I never had as much trouble selling something as I did my Robot! I LOVED it! It has a charm that's really hard to explain but to me one arm just worked so much better that two in controlling pressure.
I have used my Robot just about every day for the past 4 years and I have never had an ssue with the heat for lighter roasts. Didnt realize people do all the extra for preheating. I do a 1:2.5 ratio or so depending on the beans. roughly 10 second preinfusion with a 30-35 second pull, so maybe its the extra time in contact woth the water. I wonder if people at higher altitudes may have more issues. I like the pressure guage facing up though, wonder what that bracket is that's holding it.
The bracket is just a t type from smart espresso profiler.. and as i said in the video, some may like lights at that lower temperature. no shame there!
Two year Robot user here. Between me, partner and friends I must have made 2000 espressos with it now. Pre-heating the basket and portafilter is enough even for the lightest roasts for me. Medium roasts I have to be careful not to overheat or I end up with bitter shots. I grind quite fine on a DF64 with SSP MP burrs, and brew most espressos on a tight 2:1 ratio. I do find shots can sour on long ratios - that's probably the unheated piston. I'll experiment with it but prefer short ratios anyway. The final kicker for the Robot. 2000 coffees and I have just replaced the piston seal for the first time... With the second one it came with. Talk about value for money!
I just ordered a Flair Classic with Pro 2 upgrades (Hate the rose gold accents on the pro machines). I hope I’m strong/heavy enough to pull a shot on it, as I am small. If not, I’ll get a step stool and lean on it! I love these toys. Already have a Picopresso with stand for the travel I never do, and a fully modded Gaggia for every day at home… Fun $💕$
I always watch your videos all the way through and I really appreciate all the effort you put on them, Lance. You're truly an inspiration 💜 Pd: I specially enjoy the rants :)
BEFORE FREAKING OUT: I got Daddy Hoff's explicit permission to troll him. He enjoyed it. Let's not get too serious here. Posting this before any freak out. Also, like and subscribe would be highly appreciated if you enjoyed!
(edit)- ALSO please understand this video is a comparison. Yes, I do not use the actively heating element of the flair 58. The flair 58 with heating element is $600. Without, it is $500. So, one reason was to keep things equal. Secondly, I did loads of temp testing in my previous flair 58 video. figured it was good to show what people with the x need to do. Thirdly, I wanted to level the playing field. This is a comparison. NOT a showdown (which is best). Please view accordingly and do NOT get offended if I don't declare the one you own as best. Thanks
I wonder why they couldn't (on the aram) just essentially drill a hole in the side at the bottom of the group and shove a (threaded) pressure gauge right there. 🤔 I'm not a mechanical engineer, but that'd be the first thing I'd try.
Still though, the pressure gauge inside the threads is pretty cool.
timestamp of when you are trolling him please!
Soooooo funny!!! I loved it and it looked like it was in good fun.
@@parasbhargava6047 It's about 5:40
Yes, I finished the 35 minute video. Good comparison though. I have a flare pro two and it makes some fantastic shots, but I understand the 58 is a much better machine in terms of workflow.
Wow that pressure gauge design with concentric rings is absolutely gorgeous, what a great idea
Right? Great design.
Totally agree, especially as it’s giving off Genesis Device vibes!
Right? So satisfying. I have no need for an espresso maker like that, but I want it..
Its like a pressure cooker
Would love to know if the ring pressure gauge has to be maintained or a certain cleaning regimen. It would suck if it started malfunctioning and giving incorrect readings without you being aware of the problem. (or why your shots didn’t taste right)
Great video!
I am using the cafelar robot for three months now. I absolutely love it. There are so many ways to create your own style of espresso with it. I love the cute design and the strong build. There are still so many tricks to explore with the robot. So I wont get bored with it
Where are you located? I am in India and cannot find an easy way for me to buy the Cafelat Robot here. Any idea/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Wow, another masterpiece of a video! Thanks for showing the world a Brazilian product!
Here in the Brazilian coffee forum, someone managed to get a shipment of thin heat coils custom ordered from aliexpress to fit through the top holes, to turn the Aram into am actively heated machine. In my opinion, This, along with the pressure gauge, makes it a very versatile machine
One nice trick for the Aram preheating from Brazilian forums is that the holes on top have been enlarged in more recent versions to fit those cartridge style heating elements. So basically you can fill it with water, stick the heater in and can bring it to a boil inside of the machine without having to keep running water through it.
It does take a while but works really well for getting it nice and boiling hot. Pulled many fantastic light roast shots with it.
Yes!!! I use this as well and works perfectly even with light roast coffee beans.
Can you put a link to the heaters you're referring to? I've never seen those before. Thanks!
Onde acho esse post, fera?
@@diegoeffio clube de café "eletrificando Aram"
Ayyyy! Don't skip the ad, folks, we got the rare (and precious) Lance beatboxing!
I finished the video as well! Thanks Lance for this awesome comparison!
I have been using Flairs for 5-6 years and really love them. I've only used the classic/signature/Pro models and with those I can get AMAAAAZING shots including from the lightest roasted beans you'll ever find. And now they have the Flex which is soooo cheap but has the same capabilities. That's amazing. Just crazy value.
Back when I got started the only options were the Rok and the Flair Classic. These other two machines in the video have some design aspects that look really great. One that is awesome is being able to use normal baskets in the Aram. That's really cool.
Your previous video about the Robot inspired me to buy one and it’s honestly my most favourite purchase EVER!!!
Thank you very much for reaffirming how amazing the robot is and keep up the good work!
The cafelat robot now comes with a red rubber stopper that fits into the dual spout so you preheat both the portafilter and the piston now.
Oh clutch!
Hi, I could not find anything about this. Do you have a link I could refer to?
@@kurisutofusanleaving a comment for notification. Needed that too
@@Fatbutnotflat Its called the Basket Plug, can be found on Cafelat's website under spare parts.
Yes, I have it and it's great. It fits at the bottom of a portalifter just like the gray one on the video.
cool. I already own a Cafelat Robot but still watched the whole video anyways lol. I was considering the Flair 58x before but after watching all the extra steps to pre-heat and potential mess I am very happy I opted for the Robot. Simple pre heat or no pre heat at all, and no electronics needed. I do still wish the Robot allowed me to use 58mm accessories though. I kind of wish there was a manual espresso machine with the robots piston and basket but Flairs handle/base.
Man, your videos just so insightful, interesting, and enjoyable to watch.
Thank you so much for making and sharing these with all of us. Us coffee geeks are lucky to have you!
ROBOT FTW! 🙌 unless you’re light roast hardcore person, there’s no contest in terms of comfort, workflow, maintenance, footprint, built quality (robustness), minimalistic approach, portability. Aesthetics is up to the eyes of the beholder. Finally, I found it ridiculously easy to achieve great shots almost instantly. Within a month of use I was pulling shots that easily rivalled and even surpassed top specialist coffee places around. Best investment ever! More money for an end game grinder (which more important) than a speced up bells and whistles boiler machine.
Is it possible to use light roast with the Robot? After pre heating ofcourse
@@TheRockyBalboa100 medium/light yes (with preheating for piston + basket / VERY WELL). Light roast no. At least I haven’t managed good results no matter what I do.
*I am always comparing my results with my local roaster where I get the beans from.
@@gpapa31 thanks bro. I will leave the light roasts for pour overs then
@@TheRockyBalboa100 sorry for the late response. Ask around though, maybe others have found ways to work it for light roast. I have a friend who claims he can pull light roast shots. We disagree on the matter but 🤷 what can I say. Having tried loads of great specialty coffee across the world I think I have a good grasp on whether a shot is successful or not. And light roasts, for me at least, are never good with the Robot, sadly.
Yes sir, we do finish watching your videos. I love the deep dive stuff, where I can get into the nitty gritty details of the things I enjoy. Plus, there's always one or two comments that really get my creative juices growing and trying new things with my coffee. So, yeah. Thanks.
The tamping noise at 10:00 brought back memories. Thx Lance!
I have the robot, I never preheat and it’s excellent with dark roasts. The basket is also much easier to use when filling from my Pharos hand grinder and I think it’s better for other grinders as well because it’s a deep basket rather than a shallow basket that needs a funnel or something.
Yep, no muss no fuss
That pressure gauge design is GENIUS!!!! And so beautifully crafted and integrated. 😅
This is such perfect timing. I was looking at manual machines trying to find one I like.
I've had my Cafelat for 4 years now. Absolutely love it. One thing - i dont think it's necessary to go to 9 bar. You get beautiful shots with a 2 bar pre infusion, ramp to 6 bar and back down to 2.
Of course..never necessary. I go into depths about this in plenty other videos. But majority still do
If this is true, why do I always see people saying "iF iT dOeSn'T gEt To 9 BaRs It'S nOt EsPrEsSo!!!!!1!!"
@@SatanLiterallyPeople can't deal with variables.
I usually watch your entire video and leave feeling pretty informed about the topic
Oh, I must say, even though I won't get an Aram (I like medium and light roasts, so not very practical), I love its design and the pressure gauge. What an ingenious way of showing pressure, that's so nifty! I also so enjoy the design of the Cafelat, it's so adorable! However, I am still set on the Flair 58! Thanks, Lance, very informative and fun as usual.
Also, and this is off-topic really, but sweet shirt, dude
I used to own a Robot but gave up on home espresso. I recently purchased a 58+ as a missed espresso so much. As Lance said, the Robot is incredibly easy to use and more fool proof, but the 58+ is definitely a more capable machine - and I wanted 58mm accessories... You can't go wrong with either! I do miss the little Robot on my counter top, though. Beautiful little machine.
@@jakebrown3822 great breakdown! agreed.
@@jakebrown3822how do you find the 58 vs cafelat? I have the cafelat and thinking of getting the 58+
@@sixelanavi03 Really enjoying it. Its very easy to get a proper god shot every time that tastes fantastic with great texture. I'd say its definitely a more textural experience than the Robot. With that said, if I had a Robot I'd probably just keep the Robot, unless you really just want a change. The Robot is just as capable, its way nicer to look at IMO, and its easier to use (a higher margin for error).
Watched the whole video. I would add that the robot mittens help a lot with pulling a shot and making it more comfortable. I was anti mittens for a while then got some. It is the move. Also orphan espresso the grinder company makes a lot of cool wood accent pieces for the robot and some other tools like a tamper and a wdt/rake
think this just sealed the deal for me, thanks!!!
Watched till the end. I love the idea and aesthetics of the Robot and it will definitely be my first espresso machine, this video just further confirmed it. The workflow does seem kind of messy on the flair and not having to rely on preheat seems like a huge win for me.
I think you'll be happy. As someone who's tried both the robot is definitely the better workflow out of the two. Don't get me wrong the flare 58 is still a good machine, but there's a lot going on with it and requires more maintenance and a weaker workflow. The robot is just the perfect sweet spot.... It's the one I kept as my daily driver
I spent 3+ years carrying a Robot with me throughout Europe, and it was fabulous. I only needed an electric kettle which every Airbnb has, and a good hand grinder. If not for needing to limit my total luggage, I’d still have it - totally recommended.
Just out of curiosity, which hand grinder did you go for?
@@chunkiddcheung3889 I have been using a BPlus from Taiwan for 6-7 years. The Comandante was recommended, but I don’t have large enough hands to hold it easily. The burrs on the BPlus are very good and it’s well-built, but there are three negatives - the metal is smooth enough that I really have to grip it like a gorilla for light roasts, the threaded grounds holder requires care to not cross-thread, and there is popcorning. So, results are great, and adjustment is super easy, but it’s 1050g, and carrying that plus the Robot in addition to everything else is a pain. For home, I’d keep it just because I don’t see that spending the same amount again would improve results. For travel in places with great coffee, I’d visit the shops. For elsewhere, given that I have way too much other luggage, I’d get a ZP6 or QS2 and good tea bags for hybrid pour over/steeping.
@@chunkiddcheung3889 I had a BPlus Apollo. It was a bit of a pain dealing with the 1050g weight and the threaded catch cup which can cross-thread very easily. However, the Commandante was just too big for my hands, and the Kinu wasn't in stock at the time. The grind quality is very good -- excellent Turkish and espresso, but for drip, there is no point in spending that money when a 1ZPresso QS2 is half the weight. If I weren't traveling at all, I'd have stuck with my HG-1 for espresso/Turkish and a ZP6 for drip. But, I'm cutting down on everything since it has to be carried, and that means a QS2 and small tea bags to filter.
Watched to the end. 👍
For me this was another pointer that the Robot is where I want to aim for in my coffee journey.
Finished it, twice! And just retired my Flair Classic after picking up a used Robot Barista with extra basket. I’m totally in love with it! 💕 Impossible to pull a bad shot, and I never preheat it at all! Engineer’s win all the way!
Okay i lost my shit. Those concentric circles for pressure and incredible. So simple to the user, straightforward and adds so much to the aesthetic of the device
I've used both the Robot and Flair 58. I agree with your assessment of both.
I personally prefer the Robot for both UX and aesthetics. My only complaint is the stock gauge orientation.
Lance, if you rotate the Robot 180 degrees you can see the original pressure gauge easily :)
Wow, now I'm definitely eyeing manual espresso machines. Love this video 😍♥️
Not sure if that “squirrel” bit is a reference to Up but I love to hear it. My parents say it all the time and I’m so used to hearing it from them, it’s funny hearing it from others.
Kudos to Maycon, the person who designed this beautiful heat hungry espresso machine.
Lance not only do we finish your videos but I think most of us are left wanting more. I mean, I don’t know what else you could have done, that was about as thorough as it gets, but still!
I'm a happy Robot user and I just love it to bits. It's the simplest to get started as an espresso beginner and the looks are hard to beat! I'd get the mitten add on to make it more comfortable to push down.
Excellent showdown! I love my Cafelat Robot - it's just perfect for my needs and the community around it is great. It would be great to see a comparison between Aram Coffee Maker and Kazak Rota. Aram is beautiful, and Kazak seems quite efficient (and it uses similar mechanism).
The Aram coffee maker just needs thermal improvements, that's all.
A very good looking coffee maker to ad to my coffee making experience
yes, i'll get one eventually!
@@LanceHedrickdid you ever test the R.O.K.? If so is it on par with these three?
Regarding gasket longevity. I have the flair pro 2, and I always heat my group and basket up on top of a mocapot base, while I prep my grounds, let the water boil. I leave it on boil for 5-8min, until the temp sticker is at 100C, and then some more to make sure. Doing that since 3 years, no issues yet. During cleaning I found them to be as good as my new backup gaskets I have just in case.
Enjoyed the video and very glad you shared about pressure/force needed for the 3. It is what held me back from getting a lever. Would prefer the Aram for me then Flair. Thanks for the video.
Great video. I think Portaspresso should've earned a shout-out for releasing what I think is the original screw mechanism espresso maker back in 2009: Rossa HC.
You can put a bit more water in the Robot's basket and use a regular kettle to up the starting temperature to ~95C.
Moar manual espresso machines content!
I’d love to see a video about how to save shots if we grinded to finely/coarsely.
Dude, the pressure gauge is like a jump pack for the robot. Awesome :)
Kudos for putting excellent effort on the sponsor section!
Amazing comparison, thanks! I love my robot!! My game changer (thanks Reddit) was the overflow method. Just let the boiling water overflow in the sink when pouring in the basket. Result is a much higher temperature at the start pulling the shot without loosing much time!
Never skip through a Lance and Hugo studios video. I always watch every minute. Thank you for your passion humour and knowledge.
Hey Lance! I did finish the video. Actually, I watch all of your videos end to end. Yours and Daddy Hoff's that is :)
You are making me addicted to anything coffee, thanks for the shot of humour.
I finished the video, just letting you know as requested. I really enjoyed your presentation, thanks for the information. I like your shirt.
The Robot doesn't need to be preheated for any roast. You can compensate for the thermal drop off with a much finer grind and longer preinfusion. The outcome is the same: higher extraction.
Even with very light roats, doing it this way removes the preheating step and produces delicious, well extracted shots.
Eh. Not with the lights I use. What is the lightest roaster you've had success with?
I also hate finer grinds. More bitterness and more potential astringent compounds.
I've had success with PT's Coffee Flor Del Sol, which I personally consider very light.
This method isn't perfect, and the potential for astringency is there, but I've had success doing it this way. I just don't like the additional preheating step and this method produces great cups with less fuss.
With 100C water off the boil, I aim for a 20-30 second preinfusion at 2 bar, then slowly ramp to 6-7 bar and proceed with a declining pressure profile throughout the shot. I never had issues with bitterness, but perhaps that's partially due to my lower pressures overall? The cups are wonderfully sweet, well extracted and highlight the finer notes of the bean. You should give it a try for sure!
@Ryan-yh9ii ah yeah. For me, that is actually quite dark. And I'm not just saying that.
I watched through no problem. Great comparison. I did not know about the Aram, which looks great, but the manual Robot automatically won my heart when I saw it the 1st time.
Brilliant video Lance - Really, really useful comparison. Personally, I’m with you on liking the Aram in so, so many respects; just a huge shame they haven’t come up with a better insulated model, which seems like it would be an incredibly easy fix. Almost tempted to buy one and strip off the lovely wooden outer and make a DIY insulated jacket for it. That aside, I think it would be my preferred choice. Otherwise, maybe I’ll just sit tight and wait for them to come up with a Mark II version and hope they come up with an aesthetically pleasing insulation fix 🤞
I preferred the f58 because of its versatility, it’s heat management, temperature stability, no need for modding and it allows me to use a huge variety of standardised accessories such as the new precisions basket such as Weber Unibasket. I was never that huge of a fan of the pressure control of the Robot but that’s probably largely due to me having use the one arm levers before, so I knew that box and can get a nice gentle and precise control with it. If one has never tried manual espresso then yes f58 is definitely a steeper learning curve and can be less forgiving then the Robot, but largely be handled by just getting more forgiving baskets. But honestly I prefer the faster, more normal less faff workflow that resembles a normal espresso machine. The Robot is honestly more for the tinkering type if you intend to use it for light, if one doesn’t like tinkering and drinking light I honestly wouldn’t go with it, but it’s a fun little machine that make great espresso.
I do agree that turning the preheat off before pulling the shot on f58 is advisable for most coffees, but I did try some coffee where it actually improved with the rising temperature profile.
If one get the f58x there isn’t really much to actually repair on except the gasket. It’s a rather simplistic machine
Gasket material can withstand up until about 200 degrees Celsius so no chance they fail by heating it up that way, same with the silicone grease you use to lubricate it with.
I bought robot few days ago, it is impossible to ruin a shot, such a great machine. Might as well sell my Mitica, I use it mostly for frothing these days anyway😂
Robot + dualit cino here
@@jatinthebox8574 I am shopping for a frother, most likely will give nanofoamer a try
OMG OMG exactly what I needed for my christmas!
I LOVE the aesthetics of the Aram, but I'm not doing all that with the temp management.
it's a lot in its current form, for sure.
Thank you so much! I've seen so much marketing for the Flair that I was worried it's competitors wouldn't have as strong of a community. I'm most-interested in the Aram after watching this, but I do drink a lot of light roasts and will make sure I'm ready to accommodate them before buying.
Been watching a lot of reviews for Cafelat Robot and Flair, I decided to a buy Cafelat Robot last month with 1zpresso x-pro s grinder full manual set up still waiting for my Manual Milk Steamer and Cafelat accessories. been doing good tasting shots with the Robot really like the workflow also you can make good shot without preheat that a win for me the build quality is great build like a tank most important is it is easy to clean.
Just finished the video. The way you use your Flair 58+ is actually my daily workflow on my Flair 58x. but I don't understand how you got only 85° after preheating. What I usually do with mine is I don't remove the gauge and the arm from the piston when I preheat it, and wait until the steam actually furiously bubbles over the gap between the arm and the brew head before removing it and start brewing. The last time I check, I get 92-93 °C water at around the beginning of extraction even without preheating the portafilter and the basket. It takes me about 4 minutes to reach that temperature which is actually the time I needed to grind my coffee and do puck prep. The trick to get it faster is to fill the kettle with just about 200ml of water so it boils faster.
This dude looks like the kind of guy that would review espresso machines on TH-cam
Great to see the breakdown of manual espresso machines, according to which roast profile you prefer, thanks @LanceHedrick. Personally I like moving around from light to dark and my flair signature is more than sufficient for that and a better budget option.
I just bought the Cafelat Robot because it has a small footprint, it is built like a tank and the only thing to break down might be an easy to replace cheap o-ring. The Robot loses very little heat since the only heat mass is the relatively light basket. The piston never touches the water, there is an air gap. You’ll only lose three or four degrees. This is a kitchen appliance you can pass down to your grandchildren.
I understand but the temp loss is as shown in my videos regardless of what makes logical sense to you. I do love the robot but let's be realistic and grounded in facts.
@
Thanks for bringing me back to reality! I’ve been reading too many Robot fanboy comments, lol!
I’m a retired engineer, I’ll figure out how to easily preheat things. I think covering the inside holes of the spout with food grade silicone and making a quick release handle on the outside holes should make it easy to preheat the portafilter, basket and piston. Pour in some boiling water, let it preheat, take off, put “spout” aside, quickly dry inside of basket, then make your espresso.
I always love your videos! Thanks for all that you do! I have the Flair 58. The machine is pretty amazing. I, on the other hand, am obviously NOT. First, I'm a dark roast guy. I have a J Max manual grinder (thanks in no small part to your reviews). I have tried numerous different beans. MY espresso shots are crap! I'm frustrated to the point of regretting my purchase of a manual machine. I wanted the manual machine for the process. I expected a learning curve. However...
Get a VST basket
@@kencoleman5686 I already have that. I'm pretty sure that it's a lot of things that I'm doing wrong. I definitely can't blame the equipment.
As someone who doesn't see a need to move on from my flair classic after many years, still enjoyed this whole video
I went back and forth between the F58 and the Robot, ended up with the robot because of its simplicity, ease of repair and build quality. I couldn't be more happy. My only critique is the pressure that the arms/claws put on your hands is kind of brutal if you do more than one or 2 shots. I bought the weighted end-ball thingys (Update: mittens) for the hands and it has helped but am in the process of making some larger wooden ones to to distribute the pressure on my hands a little bit better. Nonetheless, love my robot!
maaan, awesome, this is why I watch you, cool
I've got Flair 58 electric version and 1ZPresso J-Max S - very pleasing manual combo. I ordered J-Ultra a few days ago and it should arrive to me by the end of this week. I quite like to make espresso this way, but I wouldn't like to preheat a grouphead by putting it on the kettle. I'd rather keep my electric module on XD
PS: Dialing in with J-Max is totally unproblematic. Absolutely brilliant grinder, so it's succesor will, undoubtely, be as good as previous model.
Just finished watching the whole video. It's nice to know the pre-heat workflow, which is a very important part of the process with manual machines. I feel like going with the Flair pro 2 might be ideal for me since I prefer filter coffee, and spending around +150 or more for a manual espresso machine doesn't feel like is going to take the game one step beyond.
Awesome comparison! Thank you for this video, this is exactly what I needed, I'll be upgrading my Neo Flex soon and this is really helpful. I watched the whole video, too.
Of course I always finish every video, Lance. If I didn't, how could I make sure I wasn't missing out on that angelic voice?
Loved the video, watched it all! All these machines look amazing, but the robot is first on my wishlist. The retro look, small size and workflow…
Your Robot looks like it's rockin a little jetpack. Now mine wants one too.
And yes, finished the video. And even though I've been using the Robot for some time now, I did learn something!
that segway was next level. i didnt skip it just for that, and stayed for the beatbox.
As a manual lever lover, your video conveyed so much and was a real pleasure to watch!
Owning both the 58 and the Bot, 100% in agreement with your findings : Bot is so forgiving (use it with my kids on the weekends to share the passion, they love their time helping daddy with coffee playing), and really shines at medium roast espresso, while Flair is more “precise” and its thermal management makes it perfect for light roasts (that’s what I use it for).
Now, can I curse you a bit for highlighting that concentric ring pressure control? Now I want one of these… 🤣
Two things which I felt are also quite important: 1/ the puck feedback you get from the Bot makes it more intuitive to use than the Flair, and 2/ the Flair 58 (because of its standard size) is a perfect companion to a e61/traditional machine for getting into flow profiling.
I've started to cutoff the temperature control after preinfusion on my 58 and I find my shots to be better tasting overall.
How early before pulling the shot do you turn off the heating element?
@@Yirgamalabar after preinfusion, which can be anywhere from 5-15 seconds into pulling the shot.
Cafelat Robot I have been using for years wanted a stainless steel option, no complaints. I am french roast Stumptown guy, maybe not as exotic as some, but this unit is just great.
Finished the video. Awesome content my boy!
Ohhh, the Aram is an amazing bit of clever engineering, I really like it. If these machines were actually all the same price-point I might get one (I do not consider everything < $500 to all be the same point, personally... and Aram doesn't even make that range), but Flair just has more affordable options. The Nomad is tempting though, not included in this showdown, but Nomad is the only one of these manual machines that can do longs and sprovers. But really probably going to go Flair.
Lance, some people also use some sort of active heating element placed inside the Aram to keep temperatures higher.
Oh really! I've not seen this!
@@LanceHedrick I sent you a DM on Discord. TH-cam filters comments with links.
@@DiegoNunes Would you be able to share the link with me? I would love to learn about this my aram just shipped!
I can’t wait to tell my friends years later that this is the year The Great Coffee Wars started between James and Lance.
absolutely loved the video. Especially the dramatics with the singing. I drink all roast levels, it depends on my taste for the day. I tend to stick to Light, medium-light, and medium-roasted coffees. I am thinking about getting a manual espresso machine to make Pumpkin Spice lattes at home and it would be nice for it to be portable as well for travel. What do you all reccomend?
The Flair 58 without the preheater definitely seems like a strange product to me when Flair already has the Pro 2 in their lineup. The preheat on the pro 2 just seems more manageable than the workflow needed for manually preheating the 58. If the 58mm basket ecosystem is that important to you, your either already bought into some expensive espresso stuff, or planning on spending more, so why would you cheap out on the weirdly compromised workflow?
I think it was just to make the 58mm group accessible for more people
Makes it more portable. Some people preferred the simplicity of it; adding electricity was almost sacrilege! After the Pro2 I’m definitely all in with the electric heating, though 😂
Great video really enjoyed watching keep up the good work
4:11 When you just had an argument with your significant other, but it is time to make an espresso 😄
"Yada-yidya-bing-bing" - Lance Hedrick, 12/12/23
Very good and entertaining video, thanks! But the real love goes out for "Squirrel"!
05:14 just became my new notification tone!
Nice! I am glad that I got one of the last completely polished Robots before Paul stopped making them for effort reasons back in the days. I really should use it more often but since I got a Decent three years ago… 🤷
watched to the end. Thanks, considering a manual machine. Very helpful.
Watched to the end. Thanks Lance.
Was so looking forward to this one! The teasers in the background were really irking me
The pressure gauge on the Aram reminds me of a scene in “The forbidden planet” where a very similar mechanism was counting down the detonation of the planet.
5:45
I woke up all the building by laughing
🤣😂🤣😭🤣😂🤣
I am in love with this shirt !
Ok you really made me wanna get the Cafelat Robot with this one. I blame you for my eventual dive into the sproverse 😂
Watched till the end and it was great.
As someone who owned both the Robot and the F58 I really appreciated this video!
I think you pointed everything out pretty well, even if I don't agree with everything you said.
I overall prefer the F58 which is why I sold my Robot but honestly, I never had as much trouble selling something as I did my Robot!
I LOVED it! It has a charm that's really hard to explain but to me one arm just worked so much better that two in controlling pressure.
Curious what you disagree with?
And thanks for watching!
Just the one or two arm thing that I mentioned above!
Sorry if that wasn't clear!
Oh! I missed the last paragraph. Didn't click "read more" ha!
And that is fair!
Not using the heater on the Flair 58 is wild
Please read the pinned comment..goodness lol
@@LanceHedrick doesn't change my comment
I have used my Robot just about every day for the past 4 years and I have never had an ssue with the heat for lighter roasts. Didnt realize people do all the extra for preheating. I do a 1:2.5 ratio or so depending on the beans. roughly 10 second preinfusion with a 30-35 second pull, so maybe its the extra time in contact woth the water. I wonder if people at higher altitudes may have more issues. I like the pressure guage facing up though, wonder what that bracket is that's holding it.
The bracket is just a t type from smart espresso profiler.. and as i said in the video, some may like lights at that lower temperature. no shame there!
Two year Robot user here. Between me, partner and friends I must have made 2000 espressos with it now.
Pre-heating the basket and portafilter is enough even for the lightest roasts for me. Medium roasts I have to be careful not to overheat or I end up with bitter shots.
I grind quite fine on a DF64 with SSP MP burrs, and brew most espressos on a tight 2:1 ratio. I do find shots can sour on long ratios - that's probably the unheated piston. I'll experiment with it but prefer short ratios anyway.
The final kicker for the Robot. 2000 coffees and I have just replaced the piston seal for the first time... With the second one it came with. Talk about value for money!
Made it all the way to the end!
Excellent videos, hair dryer can do good job for heating up parts.
I just ordered a Flair Classic with Pro 2 upgrades (Hate the rose gold accents on the pro machines). I hope I’m strong/heavy enough to pull a shot on it, as I am small. If not, I’ll get a step stool and lean on it! I love these toys. Already have a Picopresso with stand for the travel I never do, and a fully modded Gaggia for every day at home… Fun $💕$
I always watch your videos all the way through and I really appreciate all the effort you put on them, Lance. You're truly an inspiration 💜 Pd: I specially enjoy the rants :)
Awesome review, Lance! Kazak Rota next? Im really interested in your view on that piece of art of a manual coffee machine!