I was really hoping it would use image scans instead of just estimated illumination circles. I really like using EF lenses on my fuji GFX, but this tool only shows theoretical image circles. Like the canon, 40mm f2.8 covers my GFX really well, but it shows it only covering full frame in this database. But the database is extensive, so great work there!
TH-cam supports HDR! There is a somewhat tricky to find support page that lists the details. Google for "Upload High Dynamic Range (HDR) videos" and "TH-cam." I've recently uploaded my first HDR video and the confusing thing is that you don't see the HDR status of your video anywhere in TH-cam Studio. TH-cam will process the SDR versions as quickly as usual but the HDR versions take time. In my testing it was an additional 1 - 2 days. If everything goes well, TH-cam will automatically deliver the HDR version when you watch the video on an HDR-capable device (you'll see "HDR" next to the settings cogwheel). Since iPhone 12 and up supports it, HDR content should soon become noticeably more widespread. Hope this was helpful! ☺
Absolutely love the technical testing that you guys do. This is a really great discussion about this amazing camera. More videos and discussions like this please. Awesome job CineD💯💯💯
19:21 TH-cam definitely supports HDR. Yeah their implementation isn't the best from what I hear but it has worked really well for me if I disable automatic brightness on my phone.
Would love CineD to upload in HDR! TH-cam definitely supports it; other channels like Linus Tech Tips are starting to upload some of their videos in HDR.
Excellent video! You said that most cameras have no more than 12 steps of dynamic range and read information only in 12 bits for the sake of high frame rates. My Sony a7siii camera has about 15 dirty stops and via hdmi on atomos ninja 5 gives a 16 bit linear signal that is converted to 12 bit slog3. This is information from Sony. Is it reliable?
Imagine if they can make a full frame version with even more dynamic range. Though Arri mentioned that they cannot stiched 2 of these sensors together because of how they were built. However, they can always redesign something for full frame.
It be really interested how the Alexa 35 compares to Kodak 5203 and 5219. I don’t know what scanners can get all the latitude out of color negative film but I think it’d be really interesting.
According to Kodak their Kodak Vision3 50D film 5203 / 7203 (Super 35) has approximately 13 stops of dynamic range. But in tests people have done when the footage is digitized in order to be fed into the digital measurement system used for the Alexa 35 here at CineD the film always has too much noise (but this noise is grain so not the same as digital noise of course and is deemed pleasing to the eye) to even measure at 1 stop of dynamic range at SNR2. This method of measurement shows the film negative to have 0 stops of dynamic range at SNR2. So film always has too much grain in the shadows to measure up to a test like this which of course was never meant to measure film in the first place. However using this different older analog method that was in use for the analog film medium the Vision3 50D film 5203 / 7203 is measured at 13 stops. This testing allows for grain granule up to a certain size in the footage and the size allowance is different for different types of film like Super 35, 16mm and so on. With different stricter parameters used for the same test it shows around 9 stops for the same film stock. Or a little less actually. 8.6 stops. This is for footage with almost no perceivable noise. More similar to the best digital cameras. With a different more lenient allowance you can get up to a little over 15 stops but then the grain will be much more prominent of course and some would deem it unusable for professional work in a modern production. With grain it's all in the eye of the beholder really. If you don't mind a lot of grain for a certain production you can get a really high dynamic range out of modern film. And if you make a digital intermediate for post work you will be able to keep all of that dynamic range through to the final product. Interestingly the latitude for when the film records any kind of detail like saturation of any kind in the highlights etc. is -6 to +8. So two stops more than the Alexa 35.
@@Fedorevsky I don’t entirely have a grasp on the difference between DR and latitude yet. It’s the first time I’ve heard a distinction between the two being made like that. I guess what I’m getting at is latitude. I’ve shot some stills of 5203 (8-perf obviously) and have seen 70mm blow ups from 35mm anamorphic, I think the grain is small enough to not be an issue at any exposure with that film. But yeah this is not out of practice interest I’d just be curious because Arri said they’ve finally reached color negative film with the Alexa 35. I think film looks best when it’s actually been printed photochemically. Since they’re actually only so few theaters showing on film left, the labs can actually make most prints from the original camera negative, or close to. So most prints made today are practically show prints.
@@VariTimo I agree wholeheartedly. The grain that is there especially on 35mm (and certainly on 70mm) is so miniscule as to not be an issue at all with the pipeline used in modern day. Besides it can easily be removed further digitally if need be. I've seen some films where I was kind of sure it was shot digitally to then find out they were actually shot on film. One interesting example would be the new Dune movie which was shot on Alexa and then transferred to film before again being digitized to get the look they were after. The reason we have mostly moved away from film probably has little to do with grain and more to do with logistics and cost. Personally I prefer a little grain so I will nearly always add some to my projects as do many directors as evident of how often you see that done still today. I'll add more or less grain depending on the look I need to achieve. Interestingly enough the Alexa 35 has built in digital grain modes as you probably know. Personally I 've always been partial to grain I suspect since when I started out we shot mostly on 16mm so that's what I got used to and back then all movies had it to some extent some more than others. It's the aesthetic and texture that's ingrained in my memory, pardon the pun. If there is no grain on a film not even very fine grain it tends to look a bit video like to me. Or what I was always used to identifying as video anyway. However I do enjoy shooting on digital now. It's so much easier in so many ways. Especially for monitoring during shooting and viewing the results right away after.
I think they should include a couple camcorders in the test database just to see the difference like a Sony z90. Also the sony f65 if they can get one for posterity.
Hi CineD, I don't know why but I didn't receive confirmation email when registering on the site. I really want to use the database, that's a gold thing for videomakers!
Our developers are currently working on a few bugs, hope to have this fixed soon. This affects a very small amount of users. You can try registering with a different email.
@@CineD great, I’ll wait until this fixed, just want to use my one and only main email. I hope I’ll be able to register again since Im getting “this email is already registered” message but when trying to log in it writes that there is no active account with this email.
Anyone watching HDR videos on YT or Netflix can see crisp, eye-searing detail in highlights and gorgeous detail in velvety shadows that is breathtaking to behold that even a 15-stop camera like the Alexa 35 cannot reproduce in SDR - shadows are crushed, highlights are rolled off at 100 nits and contrast is weak. Please upload your wonderful video in HDR, Gunther!
The only way to test a camera is to give it to a talented director. Years will pass before we see what the camera can do. I feel that previous generations of Alexas will be remembered as "more cinematic ", the same way older generations of Blackmagic cameras are.
Did you conduct a poll? Because from what we’ve seen, the response by filmmakers to the Alexa 35 has been overwhelmingly positive, with only one or two online pundits preferring the older color science to the new, and no one - not a single person, prefers less dynamic range. Fortunately, camera manufacturers aren’t throwing up their hands in despair exclaiming, “Okay, that’s it, we can’t do any better, we must continue to slavishly copy a century-old look with limited dynamic range, 2K res, narrow color space and 48-nit brightness till the end of time.” To cite just one example, when the original Alexa came out, LED lights on set was a rarity, now it is commonplace, so ARRI had to develop a new color science in order to render those colors in a more pleasing way. Contrary to your experience, in side-by-side comparisons of the Alexa 35 and Mini LF, not only does the former look no less ‘cinematic’ but colors are greatly improved, particularly skin tones. Whatever there is about the ‘cinematic look’ is not lthe attributable to the sensor alone but to the lens and the talents of the director, cinematographer, production designer, gaffer, colorist, etc. "The new ALEXA 35 is like a film lab inside a digital camera... ALEXA 35 represents a new chapter in the hundred and five years of ARRI."- Jon Fauer.
@@JonPais The art is not numbers my friend. The filmlook = abstraction of reality. No amount of DR and resolution will make your camera better if you lose that.
The montage at 15:18 made me appreciate my own camera more. Certainly, the footage looked good and vibrant and the green tones looked brilliant, but there was nothing mind-blowing in it for me personally - apart from the interview shot at 16:15.with the great punchy colors. It only shows that modern mirrorless have come so far that they can give a similar result to high-quality cinema camera's. (I am using a Fujifilm X-T3 and X-H2S.) Nice calm edit by the way, I like when video's are not too flashy like most TH-cam video's nowadays.
I never understood why the latitude tests you do rely on arbitrary and varying skin tone value rather than the grey card value when you already have a color chart with 18% grey chip in the shot... It really introduces a big uncontrolled variable when your base exposure is essentially arbitrary and the precision of your latitude series is only 1-stop. Interesting that some of the forest shots actually looked somewhat thin and noisy in the dark tree bark in the sample video you shot. It does make me wonder about the limitations of sensitivity on this camera. If it has 2 stops more highlights and the lab test only shows about 1.5 stops more total DR, that would indicate this camera may have worse sensitivity than the Mini LF, which itself isn't known for its sensitivity. This seems to be confirmed by CVP's tests, which makes me wonder if anyone really needs more than OG Alexa's 7.4 stops of highlights and whether having 9.4 stops of highlights has any value if it's at a loss of sensitivity especially in todays world where cameras like venice and raptor and canon's offerings seem to handle low light much better with around 2-stops more senstivity than alexa. I'm not sure anyone was really wishing mini LF had more highlights or needed less ND when built-in ND makes controlling highlights so easy these day. It seems sensitivity is still where Arri has a lot of room to catch up and where it could really improve so it's a shame this new sensor doesn't seem to do that.
Dont shoot at ISO 800 then. Shoot at Iso 200 and you get a lot less noise. Same as RED. Red Raptor @ ISO 800 Might appear to be cleaner than Alexa but it really isnt. I had the Mini LF and I have the Raptor. If you shoot both @ ISO 800 The raptor looks "cleaner" but not really because it does not have the same amount of Highlights stops @ ISO 800 when compared to the Alexa. So for instance, you could shoo the Alexa @ Iso 400 or maybe lower than that, get an image that is as clean as the Raptor @ ISO 800 and have the same amount of stops or more over middle gray. As you can see "cleaner" is just an illusion. However if you do the opposite and Shoot the RED @ iso 3200 in order to allocate more stops over Mid gray then It gets noisier than the Alexa @ ISO 800.
@@yreyes1451 yes that's my point... It seems to solve a problem no one has. If you needed iso200 with plenty of highlights you could press a button for 2stops of ND. If you needed another stop of sensitivity, you'd need to double your lighting output which is far less trivial.
@@noahyv Well, If ISO 800 has 9 STOPS OVER Mid gray on Alexa 35 AND Raptor has 6.5 then the Alexa 35 sensor is much cleaner. Don't we want cleaner and cleaner shadows for more flexibility?
@@yreyes1451 you seem to have it backwards... But also highlights over middle grey doesn't necessarily indicate anything about noise in the shadows unless you consider dynamic range which is likely also not identical between these cameras.
why are camera sensors progressing so slowly? with all the mirrorless revolution, and particularly in the last few years, it seems there's a lot going on, however, arri sensor from 2010 (?) has 14-15 stops of dynamic range, still surpassing consumer (...) mirrorless cameras from today (maybe c70 has more?). only in 2021 did sony manage to make their highest dynamic range sensor in a7iv (almost 13, according to cined), but it's still inferior to arri from 12 years ago. why does it take more than 12 years for sony (which i presume is the main actor) to copy the dynamic range of arri (not talking about venice and the likes)? did arri do something so revolutionary in 2010 that it takes more than 12 years for technology to catch up with, in consumer mirrorless? i mean, im assuming its not that they can do it but the camera cant read it fast enough, but its that they actually cant do it. or can they? i understand its not easy, but 12+ years for a sensor seems very unreasonable in 21st century.. and now arri got to 17. sony will take forever to catch up in mirrorless cameras (not talking about high end venice and such).
I think there are two or three things at work here. 1. Arri has some patented technology others have failed to emulate (most likely their version of dual-gain). 2. Something is inherently costly about manufacturing at an ALEV sensor level. Might be materials, time per unit or something else. 3. Plausible that there is an art to the science of sensor technology and Arri have the best team, with superior understanding. Don't know how much stock I put in that, as they are a relatively small company.
There's so much dynamic range it almost looks like exposure bracketing. Like my first thought is it looks like iPhone footage that was shot on a WAY better sensor lol
Film’s got around 14 stops of DR, so I’m not sure the extra dynamic range is making the picture look clinical (though TBH, I’ve no idea what that word even means). Usually when DPs use the word clinical, they’re referring to lenses, not sensors. Actually, it is the lack of DR that makes lesser cameras resemble video and one of the defining characteristics of film is its DR. As for the textures, they are very subtle and next to impossible to see on a small screen which is why ARRI says they are best viewed on a high-quality large (65”+) HDR display. Even the dynamic range will be mostly lost to viewers at home, unless the footage is mastered in HDR and viewed on an HDR display. SDR is tossing out 9 stops of dynamic range.
@@JonPais You can still see all 17 stops of dynamic range in an SDR video if the shadows are pushed up and the highlights pulled down in the color grade. But it does end up looking really artificial/digital/iPhone like when there is that much dynamic range visible in a rec 709 gamma. I think that’s basically restating what your saying I just didn’t get the part about losing 9 stops in SDR lol it would be incredible to have a display that could show all 17 stops without having that iPhone like hdr look!
@@kylehessling2679 SDR rec.709 only has around 6 stops of DR (you can fact check) so unfortunately you cannot see 17 stops on an SDR display. The Alexa 35 has around 15 stops, so you’re tossing out 9 stops in SDR. In answer to your statement about pulling shadows up and highlights down, that would not be watchable, we can both agree.
@@JonPais Yes, but that's just if you are not doing anything with the gamma curve in post-production other than converting it to REC709. The 15 stops are all still usable. If nothing is clipped to black or to white, then you're still seeing the better dynamic range of the camera on an SDR display. When you shoot Log footage, the entire dynamic range of the sensor is compressed into an SDR range. De-logging it or using a conversion lut just stretches those stops back out. You can take all 17 stops and only stretch them to where they fit for SDR viewing, and this is generally what people are doing when they are using any camera with a significant dynamic range for SDR viewing, which is still the majority of applications these days. But if the grade causes this effect to be too obvious it looks pretty strange.
I think it's hard to put a ton of money into sensors. RED obviously isn't getting the same types of users as ARRI. Their current DSMC3 really seems to be targeted a lot towards owner operators. ARRI has been very patient with their tech. They used the same ALEV3 sensor pretty much for 12 years. They are still at the top in terms of the prices they can charge and considering most high end productions prefer using ARRI. I think Sony is making great strides and is ready for the 8k push coming from China. We'll see if ARRI puts out a higher resolution vista vision sensor.
Re 17:10 We don't need new tech, we can solve climate change today if we come together and decide to do so. Bringing more new tech is only gonna delay other countries who cannot afford to buy the new tech to act in favour of our planet. Also it incentivises companies to profit of a global catastrophe and for them the most profitable thing would be for the climate catastrophe to continue so they can continue to make money. Most of the ultra rich know they can basically buy everything they need to stay alive even in the most extreme weathers, so they are basically choosing money over the lives of people who cannot afford to build better infrastructure which is about 4 billion people. End of my opinion. Lol.
Music by Epidemic Sound - Royalty-free music and sound effects. Get your plan here: cined.co/epidemicsound
Love the new database! Always hoped something like this would exist one day, thank you so much!
I was really hoping it would use image scans instead of just estimated illumination circles. I really like using EF lenses on my fuji GFX, but this tool only shows theoretical image circles. Like the canon, 40mm f2.8 covers my GFX really well, but it shows it only covering full frame in this database. But the database is extensive, so great work there!
TH-cam supports HDR! There is a somewhat tricky to find support page that lists the details. Google for "Upload High Dynamic Range (HDR) videos" and "TH-cam."
I've recently uploaded my first HDR video and the confusing thing is that you don't see the HDR status of your video anywhere in TH-cam Studio. TH-cam will process the SDR versions as quickly as usual but the HDR versions take time. In my testing it was an additional 1 - 2 days.
If everything goes well, TH-cam will automatically deliver the HDR version when you watch the video on an HDR-capable device (you'll see "HDR" next to the settings cogwheel). Since iPhone 12 and up supports it, HDR content should soon become noticeably more widespread.
Hope this was helpful! ☺
That environmental video should definitely be uploaded seperately, so amazing!
Good point, will do!
Absolutely love the technical testing that you guys do. This is a really great discussion about this amazing camera. More videos and discussions like this please. Awesome job CineD💯💯💯
19:21 TH-cam definitely supports HDR. Yeah their implementation isn't the best from what I hear but it has worked really well for me if I disable automatic brightness on my phone.
database... huge game changer! thanks!
So happy for how it's been received so far!
@@CineD you deserve it 100%!!!
Would love CineD to upload in HDR! TH-cam definitely supports it; other channels like Linus Tech Tips are starting to upload some of their videos in HDR.
We honestly had no idea. We will look into this.
Very very nice, thanks for that, and the news at the end is a game changer
Excellent guys, thank you! What an amazing camera.
Our pleasure!
Excellent video! You said that most cameras have no more than 12 steps of dynamic range and read information only in 12 bits for the sake of high frame rates. My Sony a7siii camera has about 15 dirty stops and via hdmi on atomos ninja 5 gives a 16 bit linear signal that is converted to 12 bit slog3. This is information from Sony. Is it reliable?
Very excited for the database 😋
Us too!
A walk in the forest...that was awesome.
Um… we need to talk some more about the end of native ISO. That seems like a landmark that should get a lot more attention!
Just brilliant camera!!!😁👌 Bravo!!!💗
Imagine if they can make a full frame version with even more dynamic range. Though Arri mentioned that they cannot stiched 2 of these sensors together because of how they were built. However, they can always redesign something for full frame.
what are the lenses, you are used this test video tell me pls 🙏 very excellent image..
I used the sigma 18-35mm f1.8 and a Canon 100-400mm
Nice one but even more is the database, excellent Job 👍
All right, I'm done
tn tn tnnnnn tn tn tn tn he's crazyyyyy
It be really interested how the Alexa 35 compares to Kodak 5203 and 5219. I don’t know what scanners can get all the latitude out of color negative film but I think it’d be really interesting.
According to Kodak their Kodak Vision3 50D film 5203 / 7203 (Super 35) has approximately 13 stops of dynamic range.
But in tests people have done when the footage is digitized in order to be fed into the digital measurement system used for the Alexa 35 here at CineD the film always has too much noise (but this noise is grain so not the same as digital noise of course and is deemed pleasing to the eye) to even measure at 1 stop of dynamic range at SNR2. This method of measurement shows the film negative to have 0 stops of dynamic range at SNR2.
So film always has too much grain in the shadows to measure up to a test like this which of course was never meant to measure film in the first place. However using this different older analog method that was in use for the analog film medium the Vision3 50D film 5203 / 7203 is measured at 13 stops. This testing allows for grain granule up to a certain size in the footage and the size allowance is different for different types of film like Super 35, 16mm and so on.
With different stricter parameters used for the same test it shows around 9 stops for the same film stock. Or a little less actually. 8.6 stops. This is for footage with almost no perceivable noise. More similar to the best digital cameras.
With a different more lenient allowance you can get up to a little over 15 stops but then the grain will be much more prominent of course and some would deem it unusable for professional work in a modern production. With grain it's all in the eye of the beholder really. If you don't mind a lot of grain for a certain production you can get a really high dynamic range out of modern film. And if you make a digital intermediate for post work you will be able to keep all of that dynamic range through to the final product.
Interestingly the latitude for when the film records any kind of detail like saturation of any kind in the highlights etc. is -6 to +8. So two stops more than the Alexa 35.
@@Fedorevsky I don’t entirely have a grasp on the difference between DR and latitude yet. It’s the first time I’ve heard a distinction between the two being made like that.
I guess what I’m getting at is latitude. I’ve shot some stills of 5203 (8-perf obviously) and have seen 70mm blow ups from 35mm anamorphic, I think the grain is small enough to not be an issue at any exposure with that film.
But yeah this is not out of practice interest I’d just be curious because Arri said they’ve finally reached color negative film with the Alexa 35. I think film looks best when it’s actually been printed photochemically. Since they’re actually only so few theaters showing on film left, the labs can actually make most prints from the original camera negative, or close to. So most prints made today are practically show prints.
@@VariTimo I agree wholeheartedly. The grain that is there especially on 35mm (and certainly on 70mm) is so miniscule as to not be an issue at all with the pipeline used in modern day. Besides it can easily be removed further digitally if need be. I've seen some films where I was kind of sure it was shot digitally to then find out they were actually shot on film. One interesting example would be the new Dune movie which was shot on Alexa and then transferred to film before again being digitized to get the look they were after.
The reason we have mostly moved away from film probably has little to do with grain and more to do with logistics and cost. Personally I prefer a little grain so I will nearly always add some to my projects as do many directors as evident of how often you see that done still today. I'll add more or less grain depending on the look I need to achieve. Interestingly enough the Alexa 35 has built in digital grain modes as you probably know.
Personally I 've always been partial to grain I suspect since when I started out we shot mostly on 16mm so that's what I got used to and back then all movies had it to some extent some more than others. It's the aesthetic and texture that's ingrained in my memory, pardon the pun. If there is no grain on a film not even very fine grain it tends to look a bit video like to me. Or what I was always used to identifying as video anyway. However I do enjoy shooting on digital now. It's so much easier in so many ways. Especially for monitoring during shooting and viewing the results right away after.
Please do the HDR versio of that film and upload it here Yuotube! You can do it! ;)
I think they should include a couple camcorders in the test database just to see the difference like a Sony z90.
Also the sony f65 if they can get one for posterity.
Hi CineD, I don't know why but I didn't receive confirmation email when registering on the site. I really want to use the database, that's a gold thing for videomakers!
Our developers are currently working on a few bugs, hope to have this fixed soon. This affects a very small amount of users. You can try registering with a different email.
@@CineD great, I’ll wait until this fixed, just want to use my one and only main email. I hope I’ll be able to register again since Im getting “this email is already registered” message but when trying to log in it writes that there is no active account with this email.
@@earthlukas can you try again? We just pushed a fix
Thanks for talking about environment. New generation like Alma is the hope for the future!
Thank for your work!
Anyone watching HDR videos on YT or Netflix can see crisp, eye-searing detail in highlights and gorgeous detail in velvety shadows that is breathtaking to behold that even a 15-stop camera like the Alexa 35 cannot reproduce in SDR - shadows are crushed, highlights are rolled off at 100 nits and contrast is weak. Please upload your wonderful video in HDR, Gunther!
The only way to test a camera is to give it to a talented director. Years will pass before we see what the camera can do. I feel that previous generations of Alexas will be remembered as "more cinematic ", the same way older generations of Blackmagic cameras are.
Did you conduct a poll? Because from what we’ve seen, the response by filmmakers to the Alexa 35 has been overwhelmingly positive, with only one or two online pundits preferring the older color science to the new, and no one - not a single person, prefers less dynamic range. Fortunately, camera manufacturers aren’t throwing up their hands in despair exclaiming, “Okay, that’s it, we can’t do any better, we must continue to slavishly copy a century-old look with limited dynamic range, 2K res, narrow color space and 48-nit brightness till the end of time.” To cite just one example, when the original Alexa came out, LED lights on set was a rarity, now it is commonplace, so ARRI had to develop a new color science in order to render those colors in a more pleasing way. Contrary to your experience, in side-by-side comparisons of the Alexa 35 and Mini LF, not only does the former look no less ‘cinematic’ but colors are greatly improved, particularly skin tones. Whatever there is about the ‘cinematic look’ is not lthe attributable to the sensor alone but to the lens and the talents of the director, cinematographer, production designer, gaffer, colorist, etc.
"The new ALEXA 35 is like a film lab inside a digital camera... ALEXA 35 represents a new chapter in the hundred and five years of ARRI."- Jon Fauer.
@@JonPais The art is not numbers my friend. The filmlook = abstraction of reality. No amount of DR and resolution will make your camera better if you lose that.
@@_arturjutkowiak_film You're talking complete nonsense.
@@JonPais Nobody wants to see "everything" in art unless you are an.... 🤐 19:04
@@_arturjutkowiak_film Again, you’re alone in believing the Alexa 35 is not a worthy successor to the Alexa Mini.
Since I'm the only one that is entering their name in your ARRI ALEXA 35 giveaway, I win. Can't wait til you send it to me. Thanks.
Lol
Image geeks are convulsing right now 🤯🎥🎬
Lol
Y’all could probably package the database in a phone app and makes some $$
have you guys tested the v-raptor?
Currently scheduled for taking place next week. Thanks for asking!
The montage at 15:18 made me appreciate my own camera more. Certainly, the footage looked good and vibrant and the green tones looked brilliant, but there was nothing mind-blowing in it for me personally - apart from the interview shot at 16:15.with the great punchy colors. It only shows that modern mirrorless have come so far that they can give a similar result to high-quality cinema camera's. (I am using a Fujifilm X-T3 and X-H2S.)
Nice calm edit by the way, I like when video's are not too flashy like most TH-cam video's nowadays.
I never understood why the latitude tests you do rely on arbitrary and varying skin tone value rather than the grey card value when you already have a color chart with 18% grey chip in the shot... It really introduces a big uncontrolled variable when your base exposure is essentially arbitrary and the precision of your latitude series is only 1-stop.
Interesting that some of the forest shots actually looked somewhat thin and noisy in the dark tree bark in the sample video you shot. It does make me wonder about the limitations of sensitivity on this camera. If it has 2 stops more highlights and the lab test only shows about 1.5 stops more total DR, that would indicate this camera may have worse sensitivity than the Mini LF, which itself isn't known for its sensitivity. This seems to be confirmed by CVP's tests, which makes me wonder if anyone really needs more than OG Alexa's 7.4 stops of highlights and whether having 9.4 stops of highlights has any value if it's at a loss of sensitivity especially in todays world where cameras like venice and raptor and canon's offerings seem to handle low light much better with around 2-stops more senstivity than alexa. I'm not sure anyone was really wishing mini LF had more highlights or needed less ND when built-in ND makes controlling highlights so easy these day. It seems sensitivity is still where Arri has a lot of room to catch up and where it could really improve so it's a shame this new sensor doesn't seem to do that.
Color science. That's it
Dont shoot at ISO 800 then. Shoot at Iso 200 and you get a lot less noise. Same as RED. Red Raptor @ ISO 800 Might appear to be cleaner than Alexa but it really isnt. I had the Mini LF and I have the Raptor. If you shoot both @ ISO 800 The raptor looks "cleaner" but not really because it does not have the same amount of Highlights stops @ ISO 800 when compared to the Alexa. So for instance, you could shoo the Alexa @ Iso 400 or maybe lower than that, get an image that is as clean as the Raptor @ ISO 800 and have the same amount of stops or more over middle gray. As you can see "cleaner" is just an illusion. However if you do the opposite and Shoot the RED @ iso 3200 in order to allocate more stops over Mid gray then It gets noisier than the Alexa @ ISO 800.
@@yreyes1451 yes that's my point... It seems to solve a problem no one has. If you needed iso200 with plenty of highlights you could press a button for 2stops of ND. If you needed another stop of sensitivity, you'd need to double your lighting output which is far less trivial.
@@noahyv Well, If ISO 800 has 9 STOPS OVER Mid gray on Alexa 35 AND Raptor has 6.5 then the Alexa 35 sensor is much cleaner. Don't we want cleaner and cleaner shadows for more flexibility?
@@yreyes1451 you seem to have it backwards... But also highlights over middle grey doesn't necessarily indicate anything about noise in the shadows unless you consider dynamic range which is likely also not identical between these cameras.
21:38 - Did he say Arri RAW is 30-bits or 13-bits?
13 bits
13 bits. And they are encoded logarithmically not linearly. This means that all stops get an about equal amount of data.
why are camera sensors progressing so slowly? with all the mirrorless revolution, and particularly in the last few years, it seems there's a lot going on, however, arri sensor from 2010 (?) has 14-15 stops of dynamic range, still surpassing consumer (...) mirrorless cameras from today (maybe c70 has more?).
only in 2021 did sony manage to make their highest dynamic range sensor in a7iv (almost 13, according to cined), but it's still inferior to arri from 12 years ago.
why does it take more than 12 years for sony (which i presume is the main actor) to copy the dynamic range of arri (not talking about venice and the likes)? did arri do something so revolutionary in 2010 that it takes more than 12 years for technology to catch up with, in consumer mirrorless? i mean, im assuming its not that they can do it but the camera cant read it fast enough, but its that they actually cant do it. or can they?
i understand its not easy, but 12+ years for a sensor seems very unreasonable in 21st century..
and now arri got to 17. sony will take forever to catch up in mirrorless cameras (not talking about high end venice and such).
I think there are two or three things at work here.
1. Arri has some patented technology others have failed to emulate (most likely their version of dual-gain).
2. Something is inherently costly about manufacturing at an ALEV sensor level. Might be materials, time per unit or something else.
3. Plausible that there is an art to the science of sensor technology and Arri have the best team, with superior understanding. Don't know how much stock I put in that, as they are a relatively small company.
I wanna!!!
very bad grading on your behalf , made the camera look like crap
There's so much dynamic range it almost looks like exposure bracketing. Like my first thought is it looks like iPhone footage that was shot on a WAY better sensor lol
Film’s got around 14 stops of DR, so I’m not sure the extra dynamic range is making the picture look clinical (though TBH, I’ve no idea what that word even means). Usually when DPs use the word clinical, they’re referring to lenses, not sensors. Actually, it is the lack of DR that makes lesser cameras resemble video and one of the defining characteristics of film is its DR. As for the textures, they are very subtle and next to impossible to see on a small screen which is why ARRI says they are best viewed on a high-quality large (65”+) HDR display. Even the dynamic range will be mostly lost to viewers at home, unless the footage is mastered in HDR and viewed on an HDR display. SDR is tossing out 9 stops of dynamic range.
@@JonPais You can still see all 17 stops of dynamic range in an SDR video if the shadows are pushed up and the highlights pulled down in the color grade. But it does end up looking really artificial/digital/iPhone like when there is that much dynamic range visible in a rec 709 gamma. I think that’s basically restating what your saying I just didn’t get the part about losing 9 stops in SDR lol it would be incredible to have a display that could show all 17 stops without having that iPhone like hdr look!
@@kylehessling2679 SDR rec.709 only has around 6 stops of DR (you can fact check) so unfortunately you cannot see 17 stops on an SDR display. The Alexa 35 has around 15 stops, so you’re tossing out 9 stops in SDR. In answer to your statement about pulling shadows up and highlights down, that would not be watchable, we can both agree.
@@JonPais Yes, but that's just if you are not doing anything with the gamma curve in post-production other than converting it to REC709. The 15 stops are all still usable. If nothing is clipped to black or to white, then you're still seeing the better dynamic range of the camera on an SDR display. When you shoot Log footage, the entire dynamic range of the sensor is compressed into an SDR range. De-logging it or using a conversion lut just stretches those stops back out. You can take all 17 stops and only stretch them to where they fit for SDR viewing, and this is generally what people are doing when they are using any camera with a significant dynamic range for SDR viewing, which is still the majority of applications these days. But if the grade causes this effect to be too obvious it looks pretty strange.
@@kylehessling2679 not reading your nonsense any longer since you changed your original post after I pointed out how stupid it was.
Dear Santa...
The real question is: Why can't Sony, Canon or RED keep up?
I think it's hard to put a ton of money into sensors. RED obviously isn't getting the same types of users as ARRI. Their current DSMC3 really seems to be targeted a lot towards owner operators. ARRI has been very patient with their tech. They used the same ALEV3 sensor pretty much for 12 years. They are still at the top in terms of the prices they can charge and considering most high end productions prefer using ARRI.
I think Sony is making great strides and is ready for the 8k push coming from China. We'll see if ARRI puts out a higher resolution vista vision sensor.
The best camera in the wrong hands can lead to bad cinematography- the “short film” … :)
Hahahahhshdjsjjwnshai
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS! LESSSSS GOOOO
haha, I can always tell right away when a german guy speaks english :D
Apparently you can't because he's Austrian! 😂
@@CineD and austrians don't speak german?
VERY Valuable channel,but you must reached to 1 millions of subscribers,but the people dont like scientific discussments...sorry to be like this...
Calculus homework!
There is so much DR that it looks almost too "clinical". Now I understand the idea of "textures" by Arri.
Hey grandma 👵 can I borrow $100k 😊
Re 17:10
We don't need new tech, we can solve climate change today if we come together and decide to do so. Bringing more new tech is only gonna delay other countries who cannot afford to buy the new tech to act in favour of our planet. Also it incentivises companies to profit of a global catastrophe and for them the most profitable thing would be for the climate catastrophe to continue so they can continue to make money. Most of the ultra rich know they can basically buy everything they need to stay alive even in the most extreme weathers, so they are basically choosing money over the lives of people who cannot afford to build better infrastructure which is about 4 billion people.
End of my opinion. Lol.
Easy block. Time AND Place mate, this isn’t it.
@@TH-cam_can_ESAD just my opinion. You can ignore it and move on.
Dude, this industry is to small for your argument. But okay
There's nothing to solve. It's nothing but a power play and a scam. A Secular-Religion.
Give me a break. Global warming is not an existential threat.
overpriced! next video pls
Rent
Why the hell do you have to make this political. Leave climate out of it. Don’t be brainwashed.
Science never brainwashed people.
most videoy looking digital camera Arri ever did. I'm very disappointed.. the dynamic range is crazy.. but everything else is lacking.