Just sharing my thoughts as a Baptist: - Immersion seems to be a better representation of dying to our sin and rising in Christ, and being baptized by the Holy Spirit. I understand the meaning behind “outpouring,” but that’s just going off of one word. - Immersion is how baptism was done in the Bible, since they went into bodies of water (it could be they poured water on top while standing in the water, but this seems less likely). - Having the choice to be baptized when you fully understand the meaning is a beautiful experience that I wish on every Christian. - The consistency of baptism’s effect on salvation does bother me. Lutherans say it is always efficacious, but this seems unlikely since many people are baptized as babies but end up being unchristian. Baptists say it is always a symbol and doesn’t have any spiritual power. Presbyterians say that baptism saves, but follow inconsistent rules (sometimes it saves sometimes it doesn’t). - Some parts of the Bible do seem to suggest baptizing infants and children, but it’s not completely convincing because it’s never been said. - I honestly HOPE I am wrong as a Baptist, because I would rather have all other denominations be correct and Baptists be wrong, despite the beauty of Baptist baptism. - Maybe I’m just too individualistic, but I see it this way… we aren’t going to heaven as family units. We are going to heaven as individuals. So it makes sense that baptism would be an individual choice. - Also, the Flood and Red Sea are not good metaphors for baptism, because the Flood is God’s judgement and so is the Red Sea God’s judgement on Egyptians. The water in baptism is God’s grace DUNK ME IN!
@gigahorse1475 I would say that the flood is like the earths “baptism” where God destroys what’s old and brings new life kind of like how you said baptism is more like the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus
We don't know how baptism was done in the Bible. BOTH people "went down " into the water... which is not how it's done today... William Shisko has a good paper on this...
its so good. In America i would be a baptist (at least according to these videos) but I just love listening to you. I don't agree, but its polite, it makes sense and it at least makes me think.
I was raised Baptist and feel indifferent about it, on one hand it’s saving people who may die or be unable to be saved later, on the other hand they may lack the critical connection with God that baptism is and what it represents.
I was baptized in a Lutheran church as an infant though stopped going to any church for a long while after college or really living the Christian lifestyle at all though still considered myself christian. But I felt the Holy Spirt kept calling for me to go back to church & be among Christian fellowship, though didn’t know which one to attend. A non-denominational church kept popping up in conversation even in secular circles about what they were doing for the community & their outreach for young adults, so I decided to go there this year. Never felt more welcomed & as strong in my faith. I will have the opportunity to do an adult baptism through immersion if I want coming up. I think I will bc this time I want to and it feels like I’m making the choice to show my commitment. Though if I ever had a kid I still would like to have them baptized as an infant then they can decide when they’re older if they want to do immersion baptism.
"All we are doing is experiencing it, we can not contribute anything to our salvation" -Redeemed Zoomer this is true but we can contribute to losing our salvation by sinning and not repenting for our sins this is why as a baptist I believe that we should make the conscious choice to surrender ourselves to god and reside in him for eternity that way we are just there to experience it and we want to remain in the presence of god and not be lead astray from his narrow path.
It never happens. An unbelieving parent would not go to baptize their children. An unbelieving pastor administering the sacrament would not be a proper form of baptism either, because baptism has to be "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." You cannot administer it if you do not believe in the God in whose name you are baptizing, if you even baptize by that name at all.
@@Protestant_Paladin440 By unbelieving I didn’t mean atheist! I mean well intended church goers who have no clue they need personal salvation beyond being a good person/church member. It DOES happen all the time! I attended churches where the pastors taught things that I sincerely doubt their salvation. And yet they baptize infants all the time. Parents have their babies baptized because “that’s what you’re supposed to do”.
To add to what other Baptists have said, I'll just run my mouth on a random thought: Assuming being born again is a big deal (like I believe John 3 makes clear), what if baptism is for baby Christians who have been born of the Spirit just as circumcision was for babies who had been born "of water" (i.e. naturally)? Just a thought... Probably an incorrect one at that.
It's an issue with far too much confusing terminology. A lot of denominations talk about baptism being vital for salvation, yet they baptise infants. If it's link is with salvation, then it has to be when that individual chooses it, not when their parents choose it. We are saved by grace, through faith. This is why I can't be a Lutheran myself, because I think there is still a participatory aspect to our salvation, the faith bit. There is no act we can do to save ourselves, but we have to BELIEVE that Jesus saved us by grace. I mean John 3:16 makes it very clear. "Whoever believes in me shall not perish..." Salvation (and therefore baptism) requires faith and belief. A baby is not able to believe, therefore infant baptism is not biblically sound doctrine. I do think it is important to welcome infants and children into the church, and maybe even a dedication ceremony for that, but Baptism ain't it I think. TL;DR: 1. Salvation requires faith 2. Baptism shows your decision to follow Jesus 3. Faith requires comprehension 4. Babies to not comprehend salvation 5. Therefore infant baptism is unbiblical If you all have a different perspective, I'd love to learn more though and discuss it further!
I agree with this, like what if a infant was baptized and they decided to become atheist, being baptized doesn’t as a infant doesn’t strengthen there relationship with God or grow there faith, it’s just tradition, and I think to many denominations hold traditions to close to God, because tradition was the excuse Pharisees had for killing Jesus
I was Lutheran and baptized as an infant and then got older and believed we are only saved through faith and grace as that’s what Lutherans teach. So are you implying though that those Lutherans who believed in God’s grace but died before they were baptized as adults aren’t saved? Because my best friend’s brother was raised Lutheran & believed in Jesus as his savior but died at 17 from leukemia.
1. Salvation does require faith, but faith is given by God . We do not conjure up faith without Gods sovereign hand 2. Biblically the idea of baptism just "showing your faith" doesn't exist either. The bible very clearly says it saves you. Elected infants will follow God if its his will. 3) Faith does not require comprehensive understanding or the most correct theology as possible. We would all go to hell if that was the case. 4)Babies dont need to comprehend God's mercy. We adults cant even grasp his mercy and glory. 5) Infant baptism is biblical. The bible literally calls the babies of saints actual "saints". I respectfully disagree.
I was baptized as an infant, because my family is Catholic (I'm not though), but I honestly think it was a waste of time because I don't remember it and it wasn't my decision. I wouldn't even know I was baptized if no one told me. So, I would like to be baptized again, now as a born-again adult, so it can be meaningful. Surely, it meant something to my family, but I was too young to even understand what was going on. After all, to be baptized is supposed to be a personal decision. Biblically, it's meant to be a public declaration of the individual's concious decision to place his or her faith in Christ and obey him from then on, which an infant can't really do. Nor is it necessary for an infant to do because infants are already innocent and pure at heart (clean, blameless, unstained from guilt). They would need to have gone through the process of being lost or carnal then saved or born again in order to need the cleansing, which usually doesn't happen in a person's life until adulthood. So, that's my take on the whole thing. I guess that makes me a Baptist, huh? Peace🕊, love💌, and joy😂to you all!
I don't think it's biblical to say Baptism is an individual declaration of faith. The Bible never defines Baptism as such. I think Baptism is the entrance into the people of God, just like circumcision was, which can happen at birth if you're born into a Christian family.
To address your statement that Baptism isn't "necessary" for an infant because they're already innocent and pure: think about the story of Adam and Eve's expulsion from the garden. Eating the forbidden fruit was a personal choice on the part of the first two humans, so why did the whole human race that came after them fall? Because sin is not a learned behavior, it is a fallen state that was instilled into the entire human race by the sin of our first mother and father. For further proof of this, I'd turn to Romans 5:12-21. Part of that passage reads, "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through the one man, and death through sin, in this way death spread to all people, because all sinned." You should also take a look at Psalm 51, which is one of the Old Testament scriptures most strongly tied to Baptism. It says, "Indeed, I was guilty when I was born; I was sinful when my mother conceived me." Scriptures couldn't be much more clear: human beings are born with a soul tainted by original sin. Being Wesleyan-Arminian, I don't agree with ~every~ single thing that Zoomer said in this video, but he definitely made a strong case for infant Baptism
Never is it stated to mean that at all, it’s not really important how you (the individual) feels abt it, only that you follow the word of Christ, His view on your baptism is the relevant one, glad you were baptised as an infant at least.
Heresy according to whom? Why would one deny the grace of God of receiving the holy spirit as an infant? Why does baptism have to be a choice if you're saved by grace?
@@teravega He was claiming something was wrong, I am in essence asking _why_ is this given thing wrong, and what _makes_ it wrong. I am not claiming that infant baptism is or is not heresy.
@@lothara.schmal5092 If something is doctrinally wrong with something, that doctrinally wrong thing is heresy. If he is claiming it is doctrinally wrong he is thus claiming it is heresy.
"Non-denominationals which are just Baptists with smoke machines" Bruh.
😂
Reject modernity (smoke machines)
Embrace tradition (incense)
~one true Church founded by Christ gang
This hit so hard 😂
@@deutschermichel5807 lol
It's true tho
Had me dying
Even though you disagree with us, baptists, I really appreciate how respectful you are about it!
Baptise ur kids pls
We are both saved, I don’t think it’s write to get too upset about, you are our brothers and sisters in Christ in spite of our minor differences :)
Just sharing my thoughts as a Baptist:
- Immersion seems to be a better representation of dying to our sin and rising in Christ, and being baptized by the Holy Spirit. I understand the meaning behind “outpouring,” but that’s just going off of one word.
- Immersion is how baptism was done in the Bible, since they went into bodies of water (it could be they poured water on top while standing in the water, but this seems less likely).
- Having the choice to be baptized when you fully understand the meaning is a beautiful experience that I wish on every Christian.
- The consistency of baptism’s effect on salvation does bother me. Lutherans say it is always efficacious, but this seems unlikely since many people are baptized as babies but end up being unchristian. Baptists say it is always a symbol and doesn’t have any spiritual power. Presbyterians say that baptism saves, but follow inconsistent rules (sometimes it saves sometimes it doesn’t).
- Some parts of the Bible do seem to suggest baptizing infants and children, but it’s not completely convincing because it’s never been said.
- I honestly HOPE I am wrong as a Baptist, because I would rather have all other denominations be correct and Baptists be wrong, despite the beauty of Baptist baptism.
- Maybe I’m just too individualistic, but I see it this way… we aren’t going to heaven as family units. We are going to heaven as individuals. So it makes sense that baptism would be an individual choice.
- Also, the Flood and Red Sea are not good metaphors for baptism, because the Flood is God’s judgement and so is the Red Sea God’s judgement on Egyptians. The water in baptism is God’s grace DUNK ME IN!
This was so well said, man. I'm still coming to grips with my views on baptism but I really appreciate the way you made these points
@gigahorse1475 I would say that the flood is like the earths “baptism” where God destroys what’s old and brings new life kind of like how you said baptism is more like the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus
In order.. they "entombed" people in biblical days... please use the historical method of interpret
We don't know how baptism was done in the Bible. BOTH people "went down " into the water... which is not how it's done today... William Shisko has a good paper on this...
Unsure about baptism as a choice... it's a command. One of two sacraments. If someone opted not to be baptized I would be very suspicious.
its so good. In America i would be a baptist (at least according to these videos) but I just love listening to you. I don't agree, but its polite, it makes sense and it at least makes me think.
I was raised Baptist and feel indifferent about it, on one hand it’s saving people who may die or be unable to be saved later, on the other hand they may lack the critical connection with God that baptism is and what it represents.
I was baptized in a Lutheran church as an infant though stopped going to any church for a long while after college or really living the Christian lifestyle at all though still considered myself christian.
But I felt the Holy Spirt kept calling for me to go back to church & be among Christian fellowship, though didn’t know which one to attend. A non-denominational church kept popping up in conversation even in secular circles about what they were doing for the community & their outreach for young adults, so I decided to go there this year. Never felt more welcomed & as strong in my faith.
I will have the opportunity to do an adult baptism through immersion if I want coming up. I think I will bc this time I want to and it feels like I’m making the choice to show my commitment.
Though if I ever had a kid I still would like to have them baptized as an infant then they can decide when they’re older if they want to do immersion baptism.
No rebaptisms in scripture
I ended up not doing it anyhow@@bigtobacco1098
I'm sharing this with my Baptist friends
"All we are doing is experiencing it, we can not contribute anything to our salvation" -Redeemed Zoomer
this is true but we can contribute to losing our salvation by sinning and not repenting for our sins this is why as a baptist I believe that we should make the conscious choice to surrender ourselves to god and reside in him for eternity that way we are just there to experience it and we want to remain in the presence of god and not be lead astray from his narrow path.
God saves you. god gives you faith. God does and can give faith to infants.
What do you think about infants of unbelieving parents being baptized by an unbelieving pastor or priest?
Real life examples ??
It never happens. An unbelieving parent would not go to baptize their children. An unbelieving pastor administering the sacrament would not be a proper form of baptism either, because baptism has to be "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." You cannot administer it if you do not believe in the God in whose name you are baptizing, if you even baptize by that name at all.
@@Protestant_Paladin440 By unbelieving I didn’t mean atheist! I mean well intended church goers who have no clue they need personal salvation beyond being a good person/church member. It DOES happen all the time! I attended churches where the pastors taught things that I sincerely doubt their salvation. And yet they baptize infants all the time. Parents have their babies baptized because “that’s what you’re supposed to do”.
To add to what other Baptists have said, I'll just run my mouth on a random thought:
Assuming being born again is a big deal (like I believe John 3 makes clear), what if baptism is for baby Christians who have been born of the Spirit just as circumcision was for babies who had been born "of water" (i.e. naturally)? Just a thought... Probably an incorrect one at that.
It's an issue with far too much confusing terminology. A lot of denominations talk about baptism being vital for salvation, yet they baptise infants. If it's link is with salvation, then it has to be when that individual chooses it, not when their parents choose it.
We are saved by grace, through faith. This is why I can't be a Lutheran myself, because I think there is still a participatory aspect to our salvation, the faith bit. There is no act we can do to save ourselves, but we have to BELIEVE that Jesus saved us by grace.
I mean John 3:16 makes it very clear. "Whoever believes in me shall not perish..." Salvation (and therefore baptism) requires faith and belief. A baby is not able to believe, therefore infant baptism is not biblically sound doctrine.
I do think it is important to welcome infants and children into the church, and maybe even a dedication ceremony for that, but Baptism ain't it I think.
TL;DR:
1. Salvation requires faith
2. Baptism shows your decision to follow Jesus
3. Faith requires comprehension
4. Babies to not comprehend salvation
5. Therefore infant baptism is unbiblical
If you all have a different perspective, I'd love to learn more though and discuss it further!
I agree with this, like what if a infant was baptized and they decided to become atheist, being baptized doesn’t as a infant doesn’t strengthen there relationship with God or grow there faith, it’s just tradition, and I think to many denominations hold traditions to close to God, because tradition was the excuse Pharisees had for killing Jesus
I was Lutheran and baptized as an infant and then got older and believed we are only saved through faith and grace as that’s what Lutherans teach. So are you implying though that those Lutherans who believed in God’s grace but died before they were baptized as adults aren’t saved? Because my best friend’s brother was raised Lutheran & believed in Jesus as his savior but died at 17 from leukemia.
You make all infants "vipers in diapers"... unsaved and unsavable...
1. Salvation does require faith, but faith is given by God . We do not conjure up faith without Gods sovereign hand
2. Biblically the idea of baptism just "showing your faith" doesn't exist either. The bible very clearly says it saves you. Elected infants will follow God if its his will.
3) Faith does not require comprehensive understanding or the most correct theology as possible. We would all go to hell if that was the case.
4)Babies dont need to comprehend God's mercy. We adults cant even grasp his mercy and glory.
5) Infant baptism is biblical. The bible literally calls the babies of saints actual "saints". I respectfully disagree.
I was baptized as an infant, because my family is Catholic (I'm not though), but I honestly think it was a waste of time because I don't remember it and it wasn't my decision. I wouldn't even know I was baptized if no one told me.
So, I would like to be baptized again, now as a born-again adult, so it can be meaningful. Surely, it meant something to my family, but I was too young to even understand what was going on.
After all, to be baptized is supposed to be a personal decision. Biblically, it's meant to be a public declaration of the individual's concious decision to place his or her faith in Christ and obey him from then on, which an infant can't really do. Nor is it necessary for an infant to do because infants are already innocent and pure at heart (clean, blameless, unstained from guilt). They would need to have gone through the process of being lost or carnal then saved or born again in order to need the cleansing, which usually doesn't happen in a person's life until adulthood.
So, that's my take on the whole thing. I guess that makes me a Baptist, huh?
Peace🕊, love💌, and joy😂to you all!
I don't think it's biblical to say Baptism is an individual declaration of faith. The Bible never defines Baptism as such. I think Baptism is the entrance into the people of God, just like circumcision was, which can happen at birth if you're born into a Christian family.
To address your statement that Baptism isn't "necessary" for an infant because they're already innocent and pure: think about the story of Adam and Eve's expulsion from the garden. Eating the forbidden fruit was a personal choice on the part of the first two humans, so why did the whole human race that came after them fall? Because sin is not a learned behavior, it is a fallen state that was instilled into the entire human race by the sin of our first mother and father.
For further proof of this, I'd turn to Romans 5:12-21. Part of that passage reads, "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through the one man, and death through sin, in this way death spread to all people, because all sinned."
You should also take a look at Psalm 51, which is one of the Old Testament scriptures most strongly tied to Baptism. It says, "Indeed, I was guilty when I was born; I was sinful when my mother conceived me." Scriptures couldn't be much more clear: human beings are born with a soul tainted by original sin.
Being Wesleyan-Arminian, I don't agree with ~every~ single thing that Zoomer said in this video, but he definitely made a strong case for infant Baptism
Never is it stated to mean that at all, it’s not really important how you (the individual) feels abt it, only that you follow the word of Christ, His view on your baptism is the relevant one, glad you were baptised as an infant at least.
No age of accountability in scripture
No rebaptisms in scripture
whats up with the flags in 4:39 ?????
I’m not the only one on this server. They are gone now tho
@@redeemedzoomer6053 hmm alr btw question
@@Ilovewateriamwater sure, what
@@redeemedzoomer6053 whats the calavnist view on 2 peter 3:9
@@redeemedzoomer6053 in my opinion it contradicts calvanist theology
What makes something a heresy? Why must infant baptism be practiced, _based on what makes something a heresy?_
Heresy according to whom? Why would one deny the grace of God of receiving the holy spirit as an infant? Why does baptism have to be a choice if you're saved by grace?
@@teravega
He was claiming something was wrong, I am in essence asking _why_ is this given thing wrong, and what _makes_ it wrong. I am not claiming that infant baptism is or is not heresy.
@@__-tn6hwHe didn’t claim to be a heresy tho, tf you smoking, clearly states it as an heterodoxy.
@@lothara.schmal5092 If something is doctrinally wrong with something, that doctrinally wrong thing is heresy. If he is claiming it is doctrinally wrong he is thus claiming it is heresy.
@@__-tn6hw No, not really, heterodoxy≠heresy, a distinction made by Christianity since it’s beginning
I find Baptists - at least in the Ready to Harvest comment section, lol… - to be way more arrogant about their view on this.
For how neutral Ready to Harvest is, the comment section is typically toxic in there.
Acts 2:38. Babies can't repent. Not that complicated.
Exactly what I was thinking
Thank you
There is no THEN in the passage... stop adding... however the OIKOS covenant is repeated
They can’t hear and receive the gospel
Grace is given. Faith is given. We are being saved, will be saved, and are saved.
The Baptist idea of a salvation experience is not in the Bible.