@@arn1345 Major problem with that is likely to be that if you prefer to use apps to look up datasheets, stratagems, etc, those are likely to reflect the latest version of the rules (or you need to somehow revert to an older version, if that is even possible for some of them - I can't see the official GW one having that function, for example...).
You'd think, since GW no longer needed to put balance patches/point changes in physical print releases, they would have solved their "balance lag" problem. But nope. They're still overcorrecting problems from several months ago that either already got corrected elsewhere, or which solved themselves as the meta shifted.
@@Bluecho4 Yeah if this happened when Sororitas was (arguably) the strongest faction in the game a few months ago, I could understand. That it happens now when they're closer to 50% win rate, with no accompanying points drops, is absolutely baffling. It's like they have completely forgotten that the last points update happened.
4 massive nerfs to BoF, basic Miracle dice generation cut at least by half (or much more, depending on dying units), AoF rule virtually useless because of it, even more point increases,... definitely more than a quituple nerf.
These constant half-baked rules updates are exhausting. My group is binning this edition and going to play 2nd edition. It might not be perfect but it's fun and unchanging.
@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber it has a psychic phase! You can pay for individual wargear! The paint schemes, so bright! The cacti, so spikey! What's not to love?
GW only has 18 months to make 40k as much of a mess as possible so that they can promise to fix everything with 11th. Expect the dumpster fire to only get worse until they "listen to the fans" and make everything better with 11th.
I do love units getting nerfed because everyone takes them. I mean what does GW expect us to do pick the other battletank we dont have? We arent Space Marines with 10 different tanks.
The fact that Bringers of Flame got nerfed heavily but Firestorm Assault Force not only didn't get touched, but the Infernus squad got BUFFS, feels like GW deliberately going out of their way to smack Sisters down for straying too close to Marine territory.
So the T3 1 wound army with a bunch of short range weapons, that relies on a strong faction rule to trade, now has to get even closer with a worse faction rule, and has to pay more for it while getting absolutely nothing in exchange... *COOL, BRO.*
You think that is harsh, the Retaliation cadre from the Tau basicly have there most usefull strategem changed making half their special rule be near impossible to pull off. And it still costs 2 cp. (no more 3" deepstrike)
As I’ve become older I’ve come to realize that rules stability is far more important than constant balance updates. It’s just too exhausting to keep up; I’m thankful I have a group that just plays with the rules that are in the book.
This is what happens when you're catering to the competitive especially hyper competitive players and scenes. This is normal for video games but not wargame tabletops.
2:30 Bringers of Flame is not only not gonna be the top pick for detachment, it lost pick for detachment forever. 6' range is lunacy, it means you sacrifice a unit each time you use it. It's even more lunacy if you take into consideration that Firestorm Assault detachment got to keep their 12' range.
6 inches is so nuts. That's an incredibly reliable charge, and only requires one model in range instead of the whole unit. Like, nice for overwatch, but a unit within 6 inches doesn't need to move.
GW Headquarters. Meeting room 02. Evening. 1: "So guys, the army of faith box didn't sell as well as we expected, plus everyone is playing BoF or Repentia. How do we fix this?" 2: "Don't worry, I've got an idea. Just remove the miracle dices form all the other detachments. Voilat" Stonks
@@OniGanon I agree, but the point was that I think they wanted to boost flying sisters sells and not enough people (a part for our dearest) were playing them
Forget GW. "Let's punish every sister army because the top 5% of players are very strong." I lose most matches I play. I'm not the best player. I WANT to play more. This makes me want to play less. A lot less, like zero less. Forget this. I'm sick of my army getting worse and worse. Without considering to anything else. I could have accepted most of the changes, but that 6" means the one detachment I wanted to play because I thought it was fun is no longer fun. This is no longer fun.
Bad, like we knew it was going to be. I hope your codex is a decent one, because as bad as these are it could be worse; we could be Custodes. And then they gave Marines a Psyshic detachment while Grey Knights still lack one. What the flip flops is going on this edition?
Yeah I'm seeing all this doom and gloom, but this happened to Eldar last year and we're doing just fine with 6 fate dice. I'm sure Sisters weren't using all of those Miracle Dice anyways. Rules are temporary, this to shall pass.
It'll change in 3 months my guy. You can't build an army based on buffs and nerfs. This is a marathon hobby, you won't even have an army remotely painted by the time these are undone lol
As a competitive eldar player, a new gsc player (got into them pre-buff), the husband of a sisters player, and a local teacher of new players, I feel this and hear this alot. Best advice I can give you is just play what makes you happy and don't stress too much about the rule changes and point changes. It always seem rougher than it is. The hobby is a marathon not a sprint. Sometimes there are just gonna be units that aren't good, and they get shelved for a bit till they are good again but that shouldn't be your focus. Your focus should just be plays what makes you happy and brings you enjoyment. I've been looking at the changes all morning with my wife and local team and the knee jerk reaction online is "oh god sisters are ruined." I think this video as well as aow are right and this just brings them more into line. Did they swing the nerf bat a little too hard? Yes. Are they ruined? No. Should somethings have dropped in points? Definitely. Can sisters still win competitive games with some work? Certainly. And even if I'm dead wrong on all of this, playing a faction at its worse is what made alot of the best players in their favorite factions the best. Skari for drukahri is a great example. Sorry for the long reply, I just hate seeing new players get discouraged bc of things like this.
Build the army you think is cool, don't worry about competitive play, it's just tabletop league of legends. In stead play narrative campaigns with friends using whatever edition of the rules you agree to.
It's times like this I'm glad I don't play, I just sit at the sidelines and make disparaging comments. And there will be a lot of disparaging comments to make. But after the amazing half-year? they've had, it's probably to be expected that their time in the sun is over, that it's back to the days of 4th-through-8th edition. At least there was that one brief period where we were at the top, had a full codex that was considered great, and also received bonus crusade stuff in White Dwarf. That was a really entertaining moment.
I'm pretty sure what they did to Sisters in this patch counts as gender violence. Had they compromised on the amount of miracle dice (either one per turn but only one per dead unit per phase, or one per round but as many as dead units) or on the value (only one per round and one per dead unit per phase, but it is always a 6), would have been ok. The whole lets take the fire out of bringers of flame is absurd. The Marines have theirs and their shooting units outclass the sisters' by a lot. Also, clearly they don't know what to do with the Exorcist since they gave it Indirect fire. Just take that away and give it a little extra elsewhere (weapon str for instance for the strong rocket and a bit of ap for the weak one).
Thank you. I was a little bummed out by the balance datasheet, but you gove me a little bit of "hope" if we.could say so. A lot pf people started to doompost, "the army is dead" "you can sold them", thank you for a good analisis of the siruation. Hopingin a good Sanginala detachment!!! P.s. sorry i am not a native english speaker ⚜️
Congrats GW, you are doing a very good job of convincing me not to play 40k for a while. Seriously, just when I was planning to use my Sisters on the tabletop more.
Time to put the sisters back on the shelf. Miracle dice needed a rework? Of course, but nerfing our detachments and our points not going down....lovely. oh well maybe in 3 month's or 11th sisters will be playable
In other news horus heresy was only hit with rules clarifying and typos for the last 2 years. Is the game perfect? No, but at least my book and army haven't changed 20 times.
Over the course of 40ks 10th edition, I've followed this channel along side my friend Rob, we play weekly. Its my favorite day of the week, we get together after his work and we enjoy a game. I own several armies, too many to list because I make bad choices with my money. My friend Rob, he only owns Sisters. We're still always gonna have fun in each others company, but I suspect I'm winning most of the games going forwards.
I really don't think we are going to see BoF still, 6" is way too short for any practical use. Not only is just a lot further to move but its also so short if you actually manage to get some models in some models will still be out just because of space on the board. Anyone who's ever tried to make inferno pistols work knows how impractical 6" is. The increased stat cost is a penalty, mostly the transport ones which were hard to use well already but are now mostly going to be too costly to even consider (and I presume as they target the transport not he occupants you can't discount them with a canoness). On top of that the nerf to MD is going to make charging in close mean tons of stuff being way too exposed and just dying without generating MD as its now 1 per phase. My prediction is BoF will all but die out. At a competitive level Hallowed Martyrs of maybe Penitent Host are going to be the only viable option. And Casually Army of faith might see some play but who's going to deliberately gimp themselves so hard by playing BoF? Maybe as a bet or a dare or something.
funny part is.... with the 3"charge now being 6", even in overwatching these units, they are outside of the buff range. And getting within 6" of any unit with surge ability means death on (at best) 5+ surge roll
8:31 it is baffling to me they nerfed a bunch of stratagems, the detachment rule, the army rule AND the points of our non transport tanks all at once. Extremely heavy handed. I'll still be mostly interested in BoF though. Speed is fun.
Even at the pro level Sisters are currently at a 50% win rate. There was no balancing required after the last few points increases. The trouble is that these nerfs were decided upon months ago, when the win rate was several points higher.
I really with GW would just bifricate the game at this point. There is simply no way to make a game that makes competitive try-hards and casuals happy at the same time.
Changed have pulled me away from 40k, I got to 1500 points and now it seems like a bad idea. I can't keep track of anything.. let alone learning the basic rules :(
Love the breakdown, but gotta say this is another example of why I just stopped even trying to play 10th edition. Too many rule changes / expansions all the dang time. It's a miniatures wargame, not a video game, and it takes a long time (6+ months in my case) to collect and build an army. By the time I've made a list, collected, built, and painted it to play... the rules have changed several times for the army and it is probably not even rules legal anymore nor will it play the way I had intended when I started. So why even bother? Going to just go back to play a previous edition or OPR where the rules are actually finished while I wait for 10th to finish in the oven so they can release 11th and I'll start seriously considering 10th again :P
1:40 In theory I think rules updates are a good thing. When a rule is clearly busted and we just get a massive points shift, it is really miserable for someone new like me who has barely enough units to scrape by and play with. Being told all my stuff is cheap now is actually terrible for me, especially if I can expect a rules update later. That said, my army is GSC and I am just so tired of having the entirety of the army rule changed every few months. *especially when the index version was my favorite*
I'm right there with you. I got to use the triumph 1 time before the previous update raised her to 250 pts. The instant i saw that the triumph was DOA in my lists.
11:35 , ah, yes. Like the time a Grey Knights Titan destroyed my Rhino, w/ 5 of my Dominions receiving mortal Wounds on Disembark. Followed by the Exorcist to the side of it, also being destroyed. Both rolling the fearful Explosion roll. Both decimating not on the Dominions who escaped, but also the two, yes, Two BSS squads in between the two armor tanks, and the Repentia behind them, and my Warlord Junith. It was a painful day for the Sisters. Lost about 69% of my army on turn 1.
I've found time to play three games in the time three rules changes have dropped. I cannot be arsed with the gaming side of the hobby any more... I'm just gonna collect and paint my pretty minis ^_^
I’m starting to feel quite confident that GW will finally get 10th balanced right around the time 12th edition comes out, and only be 47,000 dataslate changes into 11th. Honestly though, I’m only watching to give Christian the view, I stopped caring about anything not in my codex a few updates ago. 😉
19:20 With Overwatch + charges, my group had been ruling it that the charge must be successful first. This new wording seems to clearly state that the charge just has to be declared...right? (Love your Sister videos btw, I've been waiting for this one since reading the updates this morning.)
that may be part of it. Technically in the past, if a charge was failed, no charge move was made so you couldn't overwatch. Some tournament people had arguments
I fucking can't, I love the imperial agents as a concept and even knowing they're the worst currently, they're the ones I want to start making going into the lobby, but fuck this noise No rule change in the dataslate aside from nerfing the callidus so that she can only deep strike in a 6" now Worst fucking detachment in the whole calendar, meanwhile space marins get a fucking good psycker focus detachment. They better make the detachment for the astra militarum good (second favourite) or I'm honestly never going to bother going into this
When the rules calm down and stop changing, then I might get back into the HOBBY. But at the moment, it has not been fun ever since they took away the barrage templates, yes this was many years ago.
11:08 I think that miracle dice needed a nerf, but I don't think we should be hard capped at just one additional dice. Speaking as someone who has lost every game I've played, I really wish that I could keep generating miracle dice as my units die so I could put up more of a fight in later turns. *edit* nvm I'm dumb there's no cap, just makes it harder to generate miracle dice 21:44 I haven't used other detachments outside the BoF, so I might give the Hallowed Martyrs a try. Ephreal Looks like a cool character as well so it's back to the drawing board for my lists.
I feel particularly sorry for any new players who recently bought the Codex and got really excited about all the interesting stuff it could do, only to run into this mess.
Hi, thats me new player who just got a Sisters army together and bought their codex to experience 40k table top for the first time..... this is awesome
I've done my research and I'm halfway done painting my starting combat patrol and I have some friends and we plan on doing a full scale and incrementally increasing tournament at a local spot but with these nerfs I can't say I'm as excited cause now I feel like I'll kind of always be fighting an uphill battle with the changes. I wasn't even going to use the BoF knowing its meta but now it seems like as a whole they are weaker and it's more than anything discouraging. I will stick with them since I picked them out of aesthetic and I love the design of them but man this feels like a punch in the gut. Hallowed Martyrs FTW!
I was playing Bringers of Flame since codex came out and I was finally starting to get consistent result with it. I was hyped for next year to further master it. These changes are completely demoralizing.
I really hope they go back to yearly updates. Or maybe six months. I remember times where they never really did FAQs and things were never this bad or frustrating.
I hope they never go back to yearly update. Imagine having to play an army for a whole year that's just terrible because they are only doing a yearly update. This is at least if they continue not having a robust team of playtesters.
I really enjoy that you keep everything joyful and lighthearted. I switched back to blood angels some weeks ago because the gameplay is way less straining but sisters is still my favourite army. Was kinda sad when I saw the changes today. My club does only competitive with a wide array of different factions and I really don’t see how sisters can keep up with any of those or similar lists. I’m really looking forward to your next videos. Keep up the good work ✌️
Ive been incredibly lucky. Throughout my entire time playing 40k (since mid 9th edition), Gw has only ever added more things that I like or made things that I like better. Ive enjoyed being a dedicated our martyred lady player (I find gaining vigour from being hurt/injured relatable) cause its only ever been made better relative to how its been previously as its never been the top choice. And in general with how I like playing and the models I have/enjoy, its never bothered me. And here again, we see that gw has decided to cater their updates to skirt around getting in the way at all of what I specifically want. I got exactly what I had hoped for with the agents of the imperium faction. I got more than I hoped for with the massive buffs to the titans. Literally all thats changed in my list i made immediately before hearing about this from you just now is that I take saintly example instead of "through suffering, strength" (I didnt really need the extra miracle dice before so I just made my preacher really punchy, now I do) and the preacher is now an allied-in ministorum preacher in the inquisitorial agents squad with greyfax. Its only been changed the tiniest bit, its not actually any worse than it was before, and its actually much better an option relative to the other detatchments now. And with the vindicaire assasin getting a 25 point drop and imperial knights getting the detachment that allows for admech units being put in, that now means I have a very interesting imperial knights list out of that knight, a warhound, the admech models I bought that didnt get slaged/tactical rockified on my knights base, and the vindicaire. Who at gw wants to get in my pants? And if you're reading this, a letter would be much easier way to get it across. Hell, smoke signals would be fine. This is kinda creepy at this point, its been years. And who in my local play group is your contact and how much do you pay them? This is to say, I allways feel weird when there is any conversation about people and their worries or gripes with wh 40k. Because by sheer coincidence, ive never had anything to complain about ever.
Oh and hypothetical gw excec obsessed stalker, one more thing, might you consider my hope for a sisters of battle titanic and/or flyer model? Like imagine a cathedral spire with a giant bell on top.... on treads (optionally equipped to be melee or ranged). Or, a titanic blimp, made of stained glass windows.
I am not a fan of the Miracle Dice change for one reason: it removes the ability of the Sisters player to proactively do things to gain Miracle Dice. Your opponent can choose to widdle units down to uselessness instead to deny you dice to use. Cue charging lone models in to die just to get a die on your turn but not getting dice on your opponent's as often. It also just makes the whole army much more passive and doesn't reward pushing in to kill enemy units. It's a bad call all-round. I believe if they wanted to fix Miarcle Dice a better option would be changing the value to a +d3 bonus to the given rolls rolled at the time we apply the bonus. That would allow Miracle Dice to put a finger on the scale and nudge failures into successes, or push certain things (such as random damage rolls or shots fired rolls) above the max threshold. But what we got encourages passivity from both players and I am not a fan. Plus it's bullshit that they so heavily nerfed the Triumph but left it at 250 points. The Sisters update was just one of the sloppiest updates I've seen out of GW in some time.
Sometimes i kinda feel like they do this because they want to pivot the tournament bro's into other products that they want to sell... i mean i have no proof of this, but it always gives me that vibe.
No timestamp because this comment isn't related to anything specific in the video, but while adjusting Armylists for the Homebrew SM Chapter I've been kicking around since the late 90s to get the numbers right again per the new balance Dataslate, I ended up putting an Imperial Agents requisition Sisters Unit in one of my lists. I'll confess, I'm just using them as a "counts as" rules proxy to be able to get a third unit of my Homebrew Marines allied in to the 2K Imperial Guard list that I'm using to represent the Rogue Trader Void Trooper Expeditionary Force my chapter has a close working relationship with, since the Retinue Slots are already filled with Imperial Agents Deathwatch Units. But if it's any consolation, I'm looking into 3D printing some female Space Marine minis to use for this Unit. I know some people are going to call that Heresy. If it makes them feel any better, I'll name two of them Jayne and Gabs.
Repentia are so inexcusably overcosted that I still don't use them even IN the penitent host detachment. 30 arco-flagellants and penitent walkers form the bulk of the list. 18 points per model for a squad that explodes to lasgun fire is just not acceptable. Remember that pre-codex they were 11 points per model and saw some (though not overwhelming) use. After the codex they are almost unchanged and the upgrades they did get were worth 1 maybe 2 points per model, not 7.
Here's an idea for GW: make sure the codex is balanced against what is already out BEFORE releasing it. That way, every codex should end up being balanced from the get-go, and people won't have to spend time constantly making changes, and players won't get annoyed.
Great video. I get that it's all about Sisters but Ima lament the changes to Guard. Gdubs just wants to cut flyers and the BANEBLADE (obligation to capitalize) chassis out of the faction. They don't get army rule AND orders now. Really annoying as I have a BANEBLADE and Shadowsword that I didn't get to play with while the getting was good. And I empathize with the points changes. Nerf, nerf, nerf, points increase.
Pre codex I was playing a lot and I was having FUN. Took them into WE, DG, and Tyranids, and without win or lose, we had an awesome, violent game. The key part was I actually had enough assets to last for 3-4 turns if I played a little balsy, and I would actually have resources for the t5 points scramble. Now? Fuck me I’ve been tabled by turn 2 or 3 every single game (same opponent, same armies), no matter how hard I hide or attack. Sisters are simply to fragile and now do not have the resources to give a good game anymore. I won’t be taking them off if the shelves for a bit. Damn shame considering how good the codex was.
Year and half ago I bought models for 1500 points Sisters army and played index detachment. It was fun, faction rule (i.e. Miracle dice) had flavor, our win rate was around 45 % (and still people who couldn't bother to learn our strengths and weaknesses were whining how strong our army rule was). Now I'm stuck with same detachment, very same models that were 1500 points are nearing 2000 and our miracle dice just got cut by 2/3 (though I'm sure whining how OP they are will not stop). For first time in 15 years I actually do not know how to remake the army because of points increase. Infantry seems rather pointless because their death will only generate 1 MD. Castigators are now 30 points more than Armigers and will lose to them in a fight. BoF is dead detachment so it's once again S9 meltas and wounding vehicles/monsters on 5. So, I don't know... Cutting all infantry and transports and going 3 Exorcists (insanely expensive, but there is nothing to replace them with)? Sounds boring both for me and opponent and weak, but I just see not many options...
I think it's time to prime my Leagues of Votann. 0 points changes to Sacresants, no change to the AoF rule, Vahl being even MORE required to make the army work...I HATE the idea of Hallowed Martyrs and have zero interest in ANY Penitent models. After all, dead Sisters don't kill his Live foes! I had already swapped to AoF from BoF, and had mild luck with them against my opponents in the couple games I played, but they were also newer player with Orks and CSM where I had been fight Custodes, Space Wolves, and IK...
I see the triumph being replaced with 3 imagifier. 250 points for an auto-6 on your one miracle die i can't see being more valuable than 180 points for 2+/4++ on 3 units and being able to reroll bad dice on dead units. That'll also let people recover some of the points taken away by the last few rounds of updates. 70 extra points to play with isn't inconsequential.
See, I think hitting the miracle rice in general is a good idea. Guaranteed 6's is inherently bullshit. It was a problem with eldar, it was a problem with sisters. BUT after the massive points nerfs to sisters their win rate already tanked, so they should have been given point decreases to compensate the big hit to miracle dice, not EVEN MORE point hits. Like each change to sisters in a vaccum I think were honestly good ideas. Less nutso generation, hit to their indirect fire unit because indirect fire is bullshit and nobody likes it, but the problem is the army overall wasn't given anything to compensate the nerfs, when they already weren't dominating the meta anymore
I have been AoF since launch of book, so these changes hit me less, but inreally feel for BoF. Two of their primary unit's go up with no reduction in other units leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Points changes and miracle dice changes should have been enough, but the mechanics gutting that BoF took is just feelsbad
They have been trying to figure out how to turn 40k into a AAA, live service video game for years now. People apologising for them doing updates every 5 minutes has let them tune their approach. Live updating he system like this is as close to a yearly FIFA like update as they can get.
I am a brand new player, like ordering my first set new. I hate pretty much all of this. My first army is going to be sisters of battle. How do I learn “the learning curve” when the curve is constantly changing shape?
Everyone is all for less balance changes, unless it was early edition Towering LoS rules.... Or Aeldari wraith knights blowing up entire units with mortal wounds... Or Desolation marines indirect blowing stuff up the board.... I would much rather have more updates that adjusts the game and gets rid of problems. I dont have to change my lists every update because i dont meta chase.
Well at least it will give me a reason to try another detachment lol. I’ve played for 25 years, crap changes all the time. I play about once a month due to real life, pretty sure every time I play there’s a new rule change or balance lol.
I think whats so aggravating is not the miracle dice its everything else. Like sisters got absolutely nerfed into the ground And its frustrating because you see orkz with bully boyz and necrons and hypercrpt which were nerfed but they are still powerful detachment just not as powerful. While Sisters just got hit everywhere and the least they could do is point decrease. Yes not everything has to be competitive and you don't have to play competitive but even a casual game you want to win sometimes, and right now I'm not even going to bother fielding this army. It's just not worth it anymore
Thanks for the dose of hopium Christian but that's too much for me. I started in 9th and remember how it was back then. Multiple nerfs in a row with little or no buffs from a people in gw who don't play sisters. Eating this cactus is not fun. I'd rather just start a second army or take a break from wh.
I am proooooooobably moving away from 40k until they do a full rework and implement alternating activations. Maybe I'll try kill team but Trench Crusade is probably the move
I have been playing Warhammer for a year. I've always thought armor of contempt only worked against one enemy. I've played so many games and no one has corrected me this entire time.
I play argent shroud so with bringers of flame detachment being nerfed to the point of almost being unplayable and sisters in general being screwed to the point that they are barely able to fight their way out of a wet paper bag i guess i'm not playing till 11th ed drops. Assuming that is sororitas don't get the harlequins treatment, and just become an attachment for inquisition armys next edition, also i'm so glad i wasted money on the sororitas codex. This is what happens when you only pander to tournament players the game gets ruined, the same happened with wow when blizzard started only caring what hardcore raiders wanted.
I guess I'm just sick and tired of waking up every balance update seeing red on the sisters points and now they've beat the army rule into the ground. It's extremely frustrating when the group I'm in will only use the MFM rules and not the rules in the codex, but I don't have anywhere else to play nor another group. So I guess I'm just screwed tbh.
We better be getting a damn good detachment for Christmas or else I'll... do nothing and keep playing with my friends in a casual setting.
Play with the Sisters rules before this balance patch. If anyone refuses to, they're not worth playing a game with.
@@arn1345 Major problem with that is likely to be that if you prefer to use apps to look up datasheets, stratagems, etc, those are likely to reflect the latest version of the rules (or you need to somehow revert to an older version, if that is even possible for some of them - I can't see the official GW one having that function, for example...).
Always comforting when they give quintuple nerfs to a mid tier faction. Really gives confidence that they know what the hell they're doing.
You'd think, since GW no longer needed to put balance patches/point changes in physical print releases, they would have solved their "balance lag" problem. But nope. They're still overcorrecting problems from several months ago that either already got corrected elsewhere, or which solved themselves as the meta shifted.
@@Bluecho4 Yeah if this happened when Sororitas was (arguably) the strongest faction in the game a few months ago, I could understand. That it happens now when they're closer to 50% win rate, with no accompanying points drops, is absolutely baffling. It's like they have completely forgotten that the last points update happened.
4 massive nerfs to BoF, basic Miracle dice generation cut at least by half (or much more, depending on dying units), AoF rule virtually useless because of it, even more point increases,... definitely more than a quituple nerf.
These constant half-baked rules updates are exhausting. My group is binning this edition and going to play 2nd edition. It might not be perfect but it's fun and unchanging.
Woooo! 2nd edition mentioned!
@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber it has a psychic phase! You can pay for individual wargear! The paint schemes, so bright! The cacti, so spikey! What's not to love?
@@EleshScorn I have good and painful memories of the cacti
2nd edition is the best
Nah play 3rd, at least the inquisitors and sisters were fun then.
GW only has 18 months to make 40k as much of a mess as possible so that they can promise to fix everything with 11th. Expect the dumpster fire to only get worse until they "listen to the fans" and make everything better with 11th.
I do love units getting nerfed because everyone takes them. I mean what does GW expect us to do pick the other battletank we dont have? We arent Space Marines with 10 different tanks.
There is an important objective marker on 1 of shelves in my room - sisters probably going to control it for some time
Can’t wait for the psychic phase to be reintroduced next update
The fact that Bringers of Flame got nerfed heavily but Firestorm Assault Force not only didn't get touched, but the Infernus squad got BUFFS, feels like GW deliberately going out of their way to smack Sisters down for straying too close to Marine territory.
And here I thought GW were all about powerful girl bosses in power armour.
@@CordovanSplotchVT only if they're Custodes 🙄
@@worldwar1flyingace645 there are no female Custodes.
So the T3 1 wound army with a bunch of short range weapons, that relies on a strong faction rule to trade, now has to get even closer with a worse faction rule, and has to pay more for it while getting absolutely nothing in exchange...
*COOL, BRO.*
You think that is harsh, the Retaliation cadre from the Tau basicly have there most usefull strategem changed making half their special rule be near impossible to pull off. And it still costs 2 cp. (no more 3" deepstrike)
As I’ve become older I’ve come to realize that rules stability is far more important than constant balance updates. It’s just too exhausting to keep up; I’m thankful I have a group that just plays with the rules that are in the book.
Join me in 3rd ed
True
This is what happens when you're catering to the competitive especially hyper competitive players and scenes. This is normal for video games but not wargame tabletops.
Adeptus Mechanicus: but ours sucks
AOS Spearhead made me break my rule to move on from 3rd and play 4th edition. 10th ed 40k did nothing to make me want to shift to the lstest version
Always happy to buy a codex few weeks ago and find out that it's irrelevant now....
Codices are irrelevant before they’re printed. It’s so sad
Use this as a lesson like I did
At least you got a code to use in the 40k app? That, at least, updates with the rules changes.
If only I could get a PDF that I can download and print with that code... @@adamstilber8382
actually nuts
2:30 Bringers of Flame is not only not gonna be the top pick for detachment, it lost pick for detachment forever. 6' range is lunacy, it means you sacrifice a unit each time you use it. It's even more lunacy if you take into consideration that Firestorm Assault detachment got to keep their 12' range.
6 inches is so nuts. That's an incredibly reliable charge, and only requires one model in range instead of the whole unit. Like, nice for overwatch, but a unit within 6 inches doesn't need to move.
@@GeneralJerrard101thats certain charge even for poxwalkers. They move 4, 2-12 to charge.
@@guillercuastico I was talking about if you could get your unit in 6 inches you may as well charge, but yeah.
A billion rerolls that other factions get are fine, but Emperor forbid you sub in ONE dice roll. Absolutely mad.
GW Headquarters. Meeting room 02. Evening.
1: "So guys, the army of faith box didn't sell as well as we expected, plus everyone is playing BoF or Repentia. How do we fix this?"
2: "Don't worry, I've got an idea. Just remove the miracle dices form all the other detachments. Voilat"
Stonks
I think you mean the Penitent Host box.
@vxicepickxv nope, the previous one with all the flyers
Who is playing Repentia? That stuff is still way overcosted.
@@OniGanon I agree, but the point was that I think they wanted to boost flying sisters sells and not enough people (a part for our dearest) were playing them
Look how they massacred my girl.
I HAVE A TOURNAMENT THIS SATURDAY MAN
THE RULES CUTOFF IS TOMORROW
I CANT DO THIS
Lol
oof!
it's not a reason to yell at us
@@Swarzyc YES IT IS!!!
RIP, martyr yourself to the cause of showing GW via stats how awfull a patch this was.
Forget GW. "Let's punish every sister army because the top 5% of players are very strong." I lose most matches I play. I'm not the best player. I WANT to play more. This makes me want to play less. A lot less, like zero less. Forget this. I'm sick of my army getting worse and worse. Without considering to anything else. I could have accepted most of the changes, but that 6" means the one detachment I wanted to play because I thought it was fun is no longer fun.
This is no longer fun.
"Zero Less" is exactly the same amount. 😂
the Eldar farseer with his nerfed to the ground fate dices looks up at you and says "how does it feel Mon keigh ?"
Bad, like we knew it was going to be. I hope your codex is a decent one, because as bad as these are it could be worse; we could be Custodes.
And then they gave Marines a Psyshic detachment while Grey Knights still lack one. What the flip flops is going on this edition?
Yeah I'm seeing all this doom and gloom, but this happened to Eldar last year and we're doing just fine with 6 fate dice. I'm sure Sisters weren't using all of those Miracle Dice anyways. Rules are temporary, this to shall pass.
The he uses a 1 to ensure the avatar of khaine lands a wailing doom in overwatch and the little sisters are no more.
@@JawaBob Eldar have a larger range and an upcoming codex. Also Eldar rules are fucking cracked even compared to sisters.
At least Eldar have good weapons to stand on....Have you seen a metagun profile, it's crap😅
As someone new to the game and trying to get into sisters this is really discouraging from playing all together
It'll change in 3 months my guy. You can't build an army based on buffs and nerfs. This is a marathon hobby, you won't even have an army remotely painted by the time these are undone lol
As a competitive eldar player, a new gsc player (got into them pre-buff), the husband of a sisters player, and a local teacher of new players, I feel this and hear this alot. Best advice I can give you is just play what makes you happy and don't stress too much about the rule changes and point changes.
It always seem rougher than it is. The hobby is a marathon not a sprint. Sometimes there are just gonna be units that aren't good, and they get shelved for a bit till they are good again but that shouldn't be your focus. Your focus should just be plays what makes you happy and brings you enjoyment. I've been looking at the changes all morning with my wife and local team and the knee jerk reaction online is "oh god sisters are ruined." I think this video as well as aow are right and this just brings them more into line. Did they swing the nerf bat a little too hard? Yes. Are they ruined? No. Should somethings have dropped in points? Definitely. Can sisters still win competitive games with some work? Certainly.
And even if I'm dead wrong on all of this, playing a faction at its worse is what made alot of the best players in their favorite factions the best. Skari for drukahri is a great example.
Sorry for the long reply, I just hate seeing new players get discouraged bc of things like this.
Sound okay an Army you like style wise. Rules change all the time so better to go with armies that you like the flair off
Build the army you think is cool, don't worry about competitive play, it's just tabletop league of legends.
In stead play narrative campaigns with friends using whatever edition of the rules you agree to.
It's times like this I'm glad I don't play, I just sit at the sidelines and make disparaging comments. And there will be a lot of disparaging comments to make. But after the amazing half-year? they've had, it's probably to be expected that their time in the sun is over, that it's back to the days of 4th-through-8th edition. At least there was that one brief period where we were at the top, had a full codex that was considered great, and also received bonus crusade stuff in White Dwarf. That was a really entertaining moment.
I love how well you speak "most mostness" I felt that
I'm pretty sure what they did to Sisters in this patch counts as gender violence.
Had they compromised on the amount of miracle dice (either one per turn but only one per dead unit per phase, or one per round but as many as dead units) or on the value (only one per round and one per dead unit per phase, but it is always a 6), would have been ok.
The whole lets take the fire out of bringers of flame is absurd. The Marines have theirs and their shooting units outclass the sisters' by a lot.
Also, clearly they don't know what to do with the Exorcist since they gave it Indirect fire. Just take that away and give it a little extra elsewhere (weapon str for instance for the strong rocket and a bit of ap for the weak one).
Sounds like a bunch of rules that I won't be using. Fuck the constant changes and 'balance' passes.
Thanks Christian for keeping us updated with sisters !
Always
Thank you.
I was a little bummed out by the balance datasheet, but you gove me a little bit of "hope" if we.could say so.
A lot pf people started to doompost, "the army is dead" "you can sold them", thank you for a good analisis of the siruation.
Hopingin a good Sanginala detachment!!!
P.s. sorry i am not a native english speaker ⚜️
I understood you. Thank you for the support and being Subscribed to the channel
Congrats GW, you are doing a very good job of convincing me not to play 40k for a while.
Seriously, just when I was planning to use my Sisters on the tabletop more.
😂 I just got into 40K table top and started a Sisters army a few months ago, imagine how I feel
@@BigWhiskey09thats literally me
@@RockmeHellsing we did the same...
As near as I can tell, sisters Bringers of Flame is unplayable. At least the models look cool.
Time to put the sisters back on the shelf. Miracle dice needed a rework? Of course, but nerfing our detachments and our points not going down....lovely. oh well maybe in 3 month's or 11th sisters will be playable
Challenge accepted on losing 1000 points in a turn
the fact the codex is $65 and it becomes obsoletely within the same edition is crazy
In other news horus heresy was only hit with rules clarifying and typos for the last 2 years. Is the game perfect? No, but at least my book and army haven't changed 20 times.
Over the course of 40ks 10th edition, I've followed this channel along side my friend Rob, we play weekly. Its my favorite day of the week, we get together after his work and we enjoy a game. I own several armies, too many to list because I make bad choices with my money. My friend Rob, he only owns Sisters. We're still always gonna have fun in each others company, but I suspect I'm winning most of the games going forwards.
I really don't think we are going to see BoF still, 6" is way too short for any practical use. Not only is just a lot further to move but its also so short if you actually manage to get some models in some models will still be out just because of space on the board. Anyone who's ever tried to make inferno pistols work knows how impractical 6" is. The increased stat cost is a penalty, mostly the transport ones which were hard to use well already but are now mostly going to be too costly to even consider (and I presume as they target the transport not he occupants you can't discount them with a canoness). On top of that the nerf to MD is going to make charging in close mean tons of stuff being way too exposed and just dying without generating MD as its now 1 per phase. My prediction is BoF will all but die out. At a competitive level Hallowed Martyrs of maybe Penitent Host are going to be the only viable option. And Casually Army of faith might see some play but who's going to deliberately gimp themselves so hard by playing BoF? Maybe as a bet or a dare or something.
funny part is.... with the 3"charge now being 6", even in overwatching these units, they are outside of the buff range. And getting within 6" of any unit with surge ability means death on (at best) 5+ surge roll
I haven't even finished making my army and I see this ;-;
Same man, this is so discouraging
8:31 it is baffling to me they nerfed a bunch of stratagems, the detachment rule, the army rule AND the points of our non transport tanks all at once. Extremely heavy handed.
I'll still be mostly interested in BoF though. Speed is fun.
Casual players took it without grease for the professional tournament players again
Even at the pro level Sisters are currently at a 50% win rate. There was no balancing required after the last few points increases.
The trouble is that these nerfs were decided upon months ago, when the win rate was several points higher.
I really with GW would just bifricate the game at this point. There is simply no way to make a game that makes competitive try-hards and casuals happy at the same time.
This isn't the fault of players this is on GW overdoing nerfs and having no idea what their doing with the faction.
Changed have pulled me away from 40k, I got to 1500 points and now it seems like a bad idea. I can't keep track of anything.. let alone learning the basic rules :(
It's really hard to argue that tournament players aren't ruining the hobby at this point. Four rule changes a year is madness
Love the breakdown, but gotta say this is another example of why I just stopped even trying to play 10th edition. Too many rule changes / expansions all the dang time. It's a miniatures wargame, not a video game, and it takes a long time (6+ months in my case) to collect and build an army. By the time I've made a list, collected, built, and painted it to play... the rules have changed several times for the army and it is probably not even rules legal anymore nor will it play the way I had intended when I started. So why even bother?
Going to just go back to play a previous edition or OPR where the rules are actually finished while I wait for 10th to finish in the oven so they can release 11th and I'll start seriously considering 10th again :P
1:40 In theory I think rules updates are a good thing. When a rule is clearly busted and we just get a massive points shift, it is really miserable for someone new like me who has barely enough units to scrape by and play with. Being told all my stuff is cheap now is actually terrible for me, especially if I can expect a rules update later. That said, my army is GSC and I am just so tired of having the entirety of the army rule changed every few months. *especially when the index version was my favorite*
I am so mad, I just bought my Triumph of Saint Katherine and was building my army around bringer of flames... 😢
I'm right there with you. I got to use the triumph 1 time before the previous update raised her to 250 pts. The instant i saw that the triumph was DOA in my lists.
Was able to return mine the day the first nerf of it was announced and was concidentally the last day i was able to return it through amazon
11:35 , ah, yes. Like the time a Grey Knights Titan destroyed my Rhino, w/ 5 of my Dominions receiving mortal Wounds on Disembark. Followed by the Exorcist to the side of it, also being destroyed. Both rolling the fearful Explosion roll. Both decimating not on the Dominions who escaped, but also the two, yes, Two BSS squads in between the two armor tanks, and the Repentia behind them, and my Warlord Junith. It was a painful day for the Sisters. Lost about 69% of my army on turn 1.
I've found time to play three games in the time three rules changes have dropped. I cannot be arsed with the gaming side of the hobby any more... I'm just gonna collect and paint my pretty minis ^_^
I’m starting to feel quite confident that GW will finally get 10th balanced right around the time 12th edition comes out, and only be 47,000 dataslate changes into 11th.
Honestly though, I’m only watching to give Christian the view, I stopped caring about anything not in my codex a few updates ago. 😉
19:20 With Overwatch + charges, my group had been ruling it that the charge must be successful first. This new wording seems to clearly state that the charge just has to be declared...right? (Love your Sister videos btw, I've been waiting for this one since reading the updates this morning.)
that may be part of it. Technically in the past, if a charge was failed, no charge move was made so you couldn't overwatch. Some tournament people had arguments
I fucking can't, I love the imperial agents as a concept and even knowing they're the worst currently, they're the ones I want to start making going into the lobby, but fuck this noise
No rule change in the dataslate aside from nerfing the callidus so that she can only deep strike in a 6" now
Worst fucking detachment in the whole calendar, meanwhile space marins get a fucking good psycker focus detachment.
They better make the detachment for the astra militarum good (second favourite) or I'm honestly never going to bother going into this
This is why I’m gonna consider just playing 10th edition when 11th drops because I won’t have to worry about the rules.😊
RIP sisters
When the rules calm down and stop changing, then I might get back into the HOBBY. But at the moment, it has not been fun ever since they took away the barrage templates, yes this was many years ago.
11:08 I think that miracle dice needed a nerf, but I don't think we should be hard capped at just one additional dice. Speaking as someone who has lost every game I've played, I really wish that I could keep generating miracle dice as my units die so I could put up more of a fight in later turns.
*edit* nvm I'm dumb there's no cap, just makes it harder to generate miracle dice
21:44 I haven't used other detachments outside the BoF, so I might give the Hallowed Martyrs a try. Ephreal Looks like a cool character as well so it's back to the drawing board for my lists.
I feel particularly sorry for any new players who recently bought the Codex and got really excited about all the interesting stuff it could do, only to run into this mess.
Hello i'm new player who just bought the codex.
Hi, thats me new player who just got a Sisters army together and bought their codex to experience 40k table top for the first time..... this is awesome
Me too I'm burned out by Al the rules changes so I startet to ignore them and play my codex rules
I bought my codex this monday!
@itsgurkan Ouch!
If I am the general, you are the Intelligence Analyst. Adore your work. Need it. Keep it up!
Wow, thank you!
I've done my research and I'm halfway done painting my starting combat patrol and I have some friends and we plan on doing a full scale and incrementally increasing tournament at a local spot but with these nerfs I can't say I'm as excited cause now I feel like I'll kind of always be fighting an uphill battle with the changes. I wasn't even going to use the BoF knowing its meta but now it seems like as a whole they are weaker and it's more than anything discouraging. I will stick with them since I picked them out of aesthetic and I love the design of them but man this feels like a punch in the gut. Hallowed Martyrs FTW!
I was playing Bringers of Flame since codex came out and I was finally starting to get consistent result with it. I was hyped for next year to further master it. These changes are completely demoralizing.
I really hope they go back to yearly updates. Or maybe six months. I remember times where they never really did FAQs and things were never this bad or frustrating.
I hope they never go back to yearly update. Imagine having to play an army for a whole year that's just terrible because they are only doing a yearly update. This is at least if they continue not having a robust team of playtesters.
I really enjoy that you keep everything joyful and lighthearted. I switched back to blood angels some weeks ago because the gameplay is way less straining but sisters is still my favourite army. Was kinda sad when I saw the changes today. My club does only competitive with a wide array of different factions and I really don’t see how sisters can keep up with any of those or similar lists. I’m really looking forward to your next videos. Keep up the good work ✌️
Thank you
Ive been incredibly lucky. Throughout my entire time playing 40k (since mid 9th edition), Gw has only ever added more things that I like or made things that I like better. Ive enjoyed being a dedicated our martyred lady player (I find gaining vigour from being hurt/injured relatable) cause its only ever been made better relative to how its been previously as its never been the top choice. And in general with how I like playing and the models I have/enjoy, its never bothered me. And here again, we see that gw has decided to cater their updates to skirt around getting in the way at all of what I specifically want.
I got exactly what I had hoped for with the agents of the imperium faction. I got more than I hoped for with the massive buffs to the titans.
Literally all thats changed in my list i made immediately before hearing about this from you just now is that I take saintly example instead of "through suffering, strength" (I didnt really need the extra miracle dice before so I just made my preacher really punchy, now I do) and the preacher is now an allied-in ministorum preacher in the inquisitorial agents squad with greyfax. Its only been changed the tiniest bit, its not actually any worse than it was before, and its actually much better an option relative to the other detatchments now.
And with the vindicaire assasin getting a 25 point drop and imperial knights getting the detachment that allows for admech units being put in, that now means I have a very interesting imperial knights list out of that knight, a warhound, the admech models I bought that didnt get slaged/tactical rockified on my knights base, and the vindicaire.
Who at gw wants to get in my pants? And if you're reading this, a letter would be much easier way to get it across. Hell, smoke signals would be fine. This is kinda creepy at this point, its been years. And who in my local play group is your contact and how much do you pay them?
This is to say, I allways feel weird when there is any conversation about people and their worries or gripes with wh 40k. Because by sheer coincidence, ive never had anything to complain about ever.
Oh and hypothetical gw excec obsessed stalker, one more thing, might you consider my hope for a sisters of battle titanic and/or flyer model? Like imagine a cathedral spire with a giant bell on top.... on treads (optionally equipped to be melee or ranged). Or, a titanic blimp, made of stained glass windows.
Gospel
3 months is nuts, i can't even build and paint more than a single model per day as it is lol
I am not a fan of the Miracle Dice change for one reason: it removes the ability of the Sisters player to proactively do things to gain Miracle Dice. Your opponent can choose to widdle units down to uselessness instead to deny you dice to use.
Cue charging lone models in to die just to get a die on your turn but not getting dice on your opponent's as often.
It also just makes the whole army much more passive and doesn't reward pushing in to kill enemy units.
It's a bad call all-round.
I believe if they wanted to fix Miarcle Dice a better option would be changing the value to a +d3 bonus to the given rolls rolled at the time we apply the bonus.
That would allow Miracle Dice to put a finger on the scale and nudge failures into successes, or push certain things (such as random damage rolls or shots fired rolls) above the max threshold.
But what we got encourages passivity from both players and I am not a fan.
Plus it's bullshit that they so heavily nerfed the Triumph but left it at 250 points. The Sisters update was just one of the sloppiest updates I've seen out of GW in some time.
I miss the old acts of faith
If we get so few Maricle dice they should always be 6
Or at least a 4 or better. Having a 50% chance that your miracle dice is only good to feed to Vahl is punishing.
Sometimes i kinda feel like they do this because they want to pivot the tournament bro's into other products that they want to sell... i mean i have no proof of this, but it always gives me that vibe.
*Be guard and sistee player, enjoying my lists*
Gw: Peasant did I just catch you having fun?! *proceeds to rko me into oblivion.*
the overwatch change also lets you declare overwatch when someone FAILS a charge move, not just when they roll successfully and begin a move; a buff!!
No timestamp because this comment isn't related to anything specific in the video, but while adjusting Armylists for the Homebrew SM Chapter I've been kicking around since the late 90s to get the numbers right again per the new balance Dataslate, I ended up putting an Imperial Agents requisition Sisters Unit in one of my lists.
I'll confess, I'm just using them as a "counts as" rules proxy to be able to get a third unit of my Homebrew Marines allied in to the 2K Imperial Guard list that I'm using to represent the Rogue Trader Void Trooper Expeditionary Force my chapter has a close working relationship with, since the Retinue Slots are already filled with Imperial Agents Deathwatch Units. But if it's any consolation, I'm looking into 3D printing some female Space Marine minis to use for this Unit. I know some people are going to call that Heresy. If it makes them feel any better, I'll name two of them Jayne and Gabs.
Repentia are so inexcusably overcosted that I still don't use them even IN the penitent host detachment.
30 arco-flagellants and penitent walkers form the bulk of the list. 18 points per model for a squad that explodes to lasgun fire is just not acceptable. Remember that pre-codex they were 11 points per model and saw some (though not overwhelming) use. After the codex they are almost unchanged and the upgrades they did get were worth 1 maybe 2 points per model, not 7.
Here's an idea for GW: make sure the codex is balanced against what is already out BEFORE releasing it. That way, every codex should end up being balanced from the get-go, and people won't have to spend time constantly making changes, and players won't get annoyed.
Me: starting to learn how to play and buying my first minis
GW: now we change many things
Me: ... i'll have to start it all over
Great video.
I get that it's all about Sisters but Ima lament the changes to Guard.
Gdubs just wants to cut flyers and the BANEBLADE (obligation to capitalize) chassis out of the faction. They don't get army rule AND orders now. Really annoying as I have a BANEBLADE and Shadowsword that I didn't get to play with while the getting was good.
And I empathize with the points changes. Nerf, nerf, nerf, points increase.
3:02 You're right. BoF isn't dead. But it is a lame horse whose owner is too kind-hearted to put out of its misery.
Pre codex I was playing a lot and I was having FUN. Took them into WE, DG, and Tyranids, and without win or lose, we had an awesome, violent game. The key part was I actually had enough assets to last for 3-4 turns if I played a little balsy, and I would actually have resources for the t5 points scramble.
Now? Fuck me I’ve been tabled by turn 2 or 3 every single game (same opponent, same armies), no matter how hard I hide or attack. Sisters are simply to fragile and now do not have the resources to give a good game anymore.
I won’t be taking them off if the shelves for a bit. Damn shame considering how good the codex was.
Finally I can go back to being a hipster faction instead of being shamed for OP (I run 0 tanks).
I'll save you the hassle with NHS: that joy comes from being blessed by the Emperor. Rejoice!
It is good that they change stuff.
If you don’t like the changes don’t play them!
Just ignore 1/2 of the changes or play your own rules.
Year and half ago I bought models for 1500 points Sisters army and played index detachment. It was fun, faction rule (i.e. Miracle dice) had flavor, our win rate was around 45 % (and still people who couldn't bother to learn our strengths and weaknesses were whining how strong our army rule was). Now I'm stuck with same detachment, very same models that were 1500 points are nearing 2000 and our miracle dice just got cut by 2/3 (though I'm sure whining how OP they are will not stop). For first time in 15 years I actually do not know how to remake the army because of points increase. Infantry seems rather pointless because their death will only generate 1 MD. Castigators are now 30 points more than Armigers and will lose to them in a fight. BoF is dead detachment so it's once again S9 meltas and wounding vehicles/monsters on 5. So, I don't know... Cutting all infantry and transports and going 3 Exorcists (insanely expensive, but there is nothing to replace them with)? Sounds boring both for me and opponent and weak, but I just see not many options...
I think it's time to prime my Leagues of Votann.
0 points changes to Sacresants, no change to the AoF rule, Vahl being even MORE required to make the army work...I HATE the idea of Hallowed Martyrs and have zero interest in ANY Penitent models. After all, dead Sisters don't kill his Live foes! I had already swapped to AoF from BoF, and had mild luck with them against my opponents in the couple games I played, but they were also newer player with Orks and CSM where I had been fight Custodes, Space Wolves, and IK...
I see the triumph being replaced with 3 imagifier.
250 points for an auto-6 on your one miracle die i can't see being more valuable than 180 points for 2+/4++ on 3 units and being able to reroll bad dice on dead units.
That'll also let people recover some of the points taken away by the last few rounds of updates. 70 extra points to play with isn't inconsequential.
See, I think hitting the miracle rice in general is a good idea. Guaranteed 6's is inherently bullshit. It was a problem with eldar, it was a problem with sisters. BUT after the massive points nerfs to sisters their win rate already tanked, so they should have been given point decreases to compensate the big hit to miracle dice, not EVEN MORE point hits. Like each change to sisters in a vaccum I think were honestly good ideas. Less nutso generation, hit to their indirect fire unit because indirect fire is bullshit and nobody likes it, but the problem is the army overall wasn't given anything to compensate the nerfs, when they already weren't dominating the meta anymore
as a tyranid player we still have over costed units that do much worse damage then similar units.
and our ranged warriors stil hit better in melee. :(
2:21 Watching just to see how my brother's sisters got nerfed
I have been AoF since launch of book, so these changes hit me less, but inreally feel for BoF. Two of their primary unit's go up with no reduction in other units leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Points changes and miracle dice changes should have been enough, but the mechanics gutting that BoF took is just feelsbad
i was about to buy codex, but my army is around 800-900 points so fuck it, i will wait until i will be around 2000
They have been trying to figure out how to turn 40k into a AAA, live service video game for years now. People apologising for them doing updates every 5 minutes has let them tune their approach. Live updating he system like this is as close to a yearly FIFA like update as they can get.
Gw wait for 11th edition to do all The changes you want because it might as well be 11th edition
I am a brand new player, like ordering my first set new. I hate pretty much all of this. My first army is going to be sisters of battle. How do I learn “the learning curve” when the curve is constantly changing shape?
Sacrisants may finally be viable, especially in army of faith. I think outside penitent AoF is possibly the prime melee detachment
Man tzeentch is having a field day. Perhaps... he had won years ago...
I swear every time something is even slightly overpowered in 40K GW always overcorrects far beyond what even seems normal.
Except for C'tan, for whatever reason GW adamantly refuses to point up C'tan to where they should be.
"I didn't say it wasn't impossible to lose half your army in one phase at 1k points."
*laughs in 'Nids*
Everyone is all for less balance changes, unless it was early edition Towering LoS rules....
Or Aeldari wraith knights blowing up entire units with mortal wounds...
Or Desolation marines indirect blowing stuff up the board....
I would much rather have more updates that adjusts the game and gets rid of problems. I dont have to change my lists every update because i dont meta chase.
It is starting to get hard to keep up with.
I'm perfectly fine with them changing points, but keeping the rules the same would be nice.
I need to take a break from the game I never get to play because I am constantly stuck on the hobby. Maybe next edition they will slow down.
Well at least it will give me a reason to try another detachment lol. I’ve played for 25 years, crap changes all the time. I play about once a month due to real life, pretty sure every time I play there’s a new rule change or balance lol.
I think whats so aggravating is not the miracle dice its everything else. Like sisters got absolutely nerfed into the ground And its frustrating because you see orkz with bully boyz and necrons and hypercrpt which were nerfed but they are still powerful detachment just not as powerful. While Sisters just got hit everywhere and the least they could do is point decrease.
Yes not everything has to be competitive and you don't have to play competitive but even a casual game you want to win sometimes, and right now I'm not even going to bother fielding this army. It's just not worth it anymore
Thanks for the dose of hopium Christian but that's too much for me.
I started in 9th and remember how it was back then. Multiple nerfs in a row with little or no buffs from a people in gw who don't play sisters. Eating this cactus is not fun. I'd rather just start a second army or take a break from wh.
I am proooooooobably moving away from 40k until they do a full rework and implement alternating activations. Maybe I'll try kill team but Trench Crusade is probably the move
I have been playing Warhammer for a year. I've always thought armor of contempt only worked against one enemy. I've played so many games and no one has corrected me this entire time.
My condolences for that. Truly.
On the bright side, nothing changes for you then ^^
I play argent shroud so with bringers of flame detachment being nerfed to the point of almost being unplayable and sisters in general being screwed to the point that they are barely able to fight their way out of a wet paper bag i guess i'm not playing till 11th ed drops. Assuming that is sororitas don't get the harlequins treatment, and just become an attachment for inquisition armys next edition, also i'm so glad i wasted money on the sororitas codex. This is what happens when you only pander to tournament players the game gets ruined, the same happened with wow when blizzard started only caring what hardcore raiders wanted.
Games Workshop are the true witches.
I guess I'm just sick and tired of waking up every balance update seeing red on the sisters points and now they've beat the army rule into the ground. It's extremely frustrating when the group I'm in will only use the MFM rules and not the rules in the codex, but I don't have anywhere else to play nor another group.
So I guess I'm just screwed tbh.