True Bypass vs Buffered Pedals and How To Avoid Tone Suck
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
- We talk about buffers a whole lot on this channel, but it's hard to fully understand the way true-bypass and buffered pedals interact on our pedalboards. Today, I'm demystifying the true bypass vs buffered bypass and showing YOU the best way to combine the two types of pedals on your pedalboard for the best possible tone!
Signal Path Diagrams Adapted from Strymon Engineering
www.strymon.net/setting-up-yo...
TABLE OF CONTENTS
00:00 Introduction
00:21 True Bypass & Buffered Bypass Differences
02:51 History of True Bypass and Buffered Bypass
05:38 The Consequences of True Bypass
07:11 The Buffer Revival
08:11 The Consequences of Buffers
10:40 4 True Bypass vs 4 Buffered Pedals
13:07 What’s the Middle Ground?
14:23 Ideal Buffered Signal Chains
17:10 Recap/ Conclusion
Watch Brian Wampler's Video HERE:
• Non-True Bypass switch...
⬇️Private Tone Consulting from the Rig Dr. ⬇️
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Zip Ties: www.therigdr.com/collections/...
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VERTEX Pedals: vertexeffects.com/store
⬇ DIY BUFFER INTERFACE DIAGRAMS, TEMPLATES, & MATERIALS ⬇
Mono - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Mono w/Tuner Out - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Mono w/Splitter - www.vertexeffects.com/diy-buf...
Mono w/Audition Loop - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
4 Cable Method (FX Loop) - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Wet/Dry - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Stereo - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
🔻 //rig consulting//🔻
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🔈 //podcast//🔈
Apple: apple.co/36dSQzK
Spotify: spoti.fi/2WGLku8
⬇ RECOMMENDED MATERIALS ⬇
some urls below contain affiliate links
//buffers//
Vertex DIY Buffers - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer
Mesa Boogie High-Wire (dual buffer) - bit.ly/2lZwS0s
TC Bonafide Buffer (x2 input + output) - amzn.to/2vrTSug
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2.1mm DC Power Plugs (straight) - bit.ly/36wd1sA
Bulk Power Cables (pre made) - amzn.to/3ev1q0t
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MIDI Plugs (right angle) - bit.ly/2oKHDFG
MIDI Plugs (straight) - bit.ly/32fNNLF
MIDI Cable (bulk) - amzn.to/2tPAHWQ
//velcro//
Vertex Super Lock - therigdr.com/collections/all/...
//cable management//
Zip Ties - www.therigdr.com/products/zip...
Tie Down Mounts - www.therigdr.com/products/tie...
Tone Essentials Kit - www.therigdr.com/products/ton...
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Solder (60/40) - amzn.to/2U7XhsD
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👇 // diy diagrams // 👇
DIY Power Cables: vertexeffects.com/diy-power-c...
DIY Interface: vertexeffects.com/diy-interface
DIY Buffers: vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer
#TrueBypass #BufferedBypass #RigDoctor - เพลง
We talk about buffers a whole lot on this channel, but it's hard to fully understand the way true-bypass and buffered pedals interact on our pedalboards. In this video, I'm demystifying the true bypass vs buffered bypass and showing YOU the best way to combine the two types of pedals on your pedalboard for the best possible tone! Your comments and feedback are appreciate, please let us know your thoughts below!
So much great information for any skill level. I look forward to each and every one of these videos, THANK YOU!
@@carpme My pleasure! Glad you dig it!
Does using a Guitar with active pickups like EMG's change "if" or "where" you need buffers???
@@xjohn1970 that would become your input buffer, you'd still need an output buffer.
I'm on a budget and I'm seeing these little buffers on Amazon go for about 20 30 bucks and I'm wondering if their claims for one mag input impedance and 100 to 150 output impedance is true? Or can I just rely on my behringer noise gate near the end of my chain for a good output buffer?
I have a polytune 3 as my input buffer already.
Always learn something from every video you post. Thanks!!
🙏🙏🙏
Phenomenal job Mason = explaining this. I love my: Fulltone Clyde Deluxe Wah and my OCD. Really enjoyed how clearly it was explained. I smashed that like-button.
Thanks Michael! You Rock!
Incredible video. Always learning something new from you.
Thanks for all the support Howard! Super appreciate it!
YOU ARE AWESOME Mason!, you can say it LOUDER but not more clear than this. U R the MAN!
We need your help! Spread the word! Thank you for watching Nico!
This was such an informative video. I was always confused by this topic and learned a ton. Thanks so much!
Quite valuable info for someone on their first pedalboard. Thanks
Thanks a lot for sharing this information. Very useful. I’ve been learning a lot from you.
Great!!!
Good info Mason. Keep up the good work.
🙏🙏🙏 thanks for watching
Thank you for the great content. I learn something legitimate every time.
Agree 100%! High quality content!
im really intrigued by all the talk about buffers. i love your videos & its very clear that you guys love buffers!
Thanks for watching. It's not so much that we love or hate buffers...my commitment is to getting the best sound, which in my mind is the sound of the guitar directly into the amplifier. You can't represent that through a myriad of pedal that without high quality buffers.
@@VertexEffectsInc hey, im not knocking you at all. ive learned a LOT from your videos. i like your podcast too! my first introduction to vertex was via tgp so i probably came in a little hot as one is want to do when not having all of the information. bottom line, i think you're great & i let the folks over there know it every chance i get. by the way, your ultraphonix hrm... i just bought one. the ultraphonix line are dumble-style pedals according to one of your videos. the hrm part... i think i heard you say it stands for hot rod marshall? is it supposed to be a dumble with a marshall mod or does the hrm stand for something else? thanks for your time! i love the pedal either way! while we're here, does it have a good buffer on board?
@@trintdaddylandis I appreciate that - my main goal is to provide resources to make things easier for folks to attempt themselves when it comes to building their own rigs. Whether it's learning to solder or just creating nice wiring looms on your rig - that's a win for me :). The HRM is based on the EL-34 Dumble amplifiers - a bit more aggressive gain structure more upper mid-range and a bit less smoothness, but a bit more glass to it.
@@VertexEffectsInc very nice. thanks man! im a fan of everything yall are doing for sure. 👍
@@trintdaddylandis thanks for the support!
I'm pretty blown away by all of the ridiculous questions and opinions by others where Mason is literally a qualified subject matter expert, paid professionally for his advice by some of the most successful musicians in the world and yet these YT keyboard warriors somehow still want him to waste his time trying to convince them that their personal opinions and biases are somehow invalid? WTF?!
If you disagree with the man fine... he's just trying to share some knowledge in hopes it will help others... for that I am grateful.
Thank you. Very informative & educational. Worth a Follow. Thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
Brilliant thanks for this Mason and Belated Happy Birthday 🎂
Thanks Andrew! Today is my birthday, so you're right on time!
@@VertexEffectsInc have a brilliant birthday Mason 👍🏼
Super informative and helpful 👏
Glad you think so!
dude finally someone that has real knowledge on tone and a similar ear to boot! I am a tone snob also. Only want the best for my Tweed, I can hear so much difference in the junk pedals today after 30 years. I keep things basic transparent OD, some reverb and trem that's it! but I have been having trouble with understanding why so many pedals kill tone. There has to be a balance with cable length and true/Buffer Thats how I found my holy grail sound. Thank you so much for this as It helps me to know really what I am looking for! God Bless and I subscribed. :)
Thanks so much Jeremy!!!
I flipped the switch to buffered bypass on my TC Electronic Flashback Delay and HoF Reverb at the end of the pedal chain. There was a drop in the output level. The original level was restored when I flipped the switch back to True Bypass, which was the default position on the pedals. Thanks again for your videos.
Seems like there is something wrong with the pedals if they loose output when in buffered mode.
Could also be your system.
Great video, Mason, thank you so much!
Aw man! My pleasure!
@@VertexEffectsInc I do have a question, if you don't mind. I use the Rockett Audio Archer first in my signal path...love it as a lead boost and love the buffer. Problem is that the internal charge pump causes heterodyning with some modulation pedals. Can you recommend a similar Klon-style pedal w/o a charge pump? Best if it also has a great buffer (like the Archer), but I could use a true bypass boost if I had to, and just use a stand alone buffer. I have the Truetone and Analogman buffers, both of which I like. It's just nice to have a boost and buffer in one pedal, especially on my smaller board. Thanks for your input, Mason!
@@paulblanchet542 How are you determining this is a result of the charge pump? What's your power supply? The Archer is the same buffer in a Klon...not a great buffer BTW - pretty aweful in fact and most people aren't really hearing the buffer anyway unless their Klon is first or last in their chain most of the time. The Truetone is a good buffer - I'd put one first and last no matter what you have on the pedalboard.
@@VertexEffectsInc Fair question, I guess I assumed it was the charge pump due to similar experiences of others. Although, some of the other Klon clones don't seem to be causing the same noises. BTW, the power supply is a CIOKS DC-5. Thanks!
Great explanation.
Glad it was helpful!
Mic (read: knowledge) drop. Invaluable. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Sometimes you have to just let your ears make your decision Great run of videos Mas
Thanks for watching Paul!
Very informative!! One thing that confuses me on this - most of my guitars that I gig with regularly have a buffered output (Music Man Cutlass and Music Man Luke 3 models). I currently have 6 TB pedals in front of my amp and 3 pedals in the FX loop. I do not experience any tone change rolling off my guitar volume using those guitars.. I would love to add a 7th TB pedal to the front, but don't want to push my luck !!
Super Informative video once more!!! Doc you should also recommend more the new Vertex Boost MKII as a great buffer. I preordered it, made the trs do dual ts cables and....... can't wait to place it in my board 2 weeks is too long ;) Love!
Yes, however it's not as easy an insert into any pedalboard as some of the stand alone buffers.
@@VertexEffectsInc Right but i think it is almost as easy as the high wire.
@@kostischaveles depends on the person I suppose!
Thank you for the topic. What makes a good buffer? What type of circuitry a good buffer should have?
There are many ways to get there, I would focus more on the impedances stated in this video as the easiest way to ID a quality buffer. Typically that’ll get you where you want to go.
Perfect video for a guy like me who has little to no knowledge on TB and buffered bypass.
Glad it was helpful!
Discovered your channel recently and loving the content. You have answered so many signal flow questions I had.
One thing I notice isn't covered anywhere other than in some forum discussions is how to record an effective DI for guitar in a studio. Particularly how this would be best done to optimise both the DI recorded signal and the wet signal sent through the effects and the amp.
Basically most of the name DIs even by companies like Radial have terrible input impedances so how do people make sure they are recording the best possible wet and DI signal when recording guitar under these circumstances? The DI I refer to here is more as a back up for possible reamping at a later time if the wet sound needs to be changed and something I do for my own recordings.
Typically I find the best way to do it is to have an input buffer that acts as the splitter on the output so you can still get the loading of a tube amplifier before the guitar hits the DI. There is also a company called sonic nuance that has a tuner that has a high-quality buffer with a DI output option that’s really good for this.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks Mason. I saw one of your videos where I think you may have shown or mentioned the JHS buffer splitter? I could be wrong.
Do you have any experience with this in terms of quality of buffer? JHS don't publish the impedance values of this device anywhere so I cant confirm if it meets your minimum buffer impedance values or not.
I have seen forum posts from about 5 years back where people have complained that this JHS buffer splitter affected their tone and I am interested in your opinion on this device.
@@VertexEffectsInc I checked out the Sonic Nuance tuner based on your recommendation.
It looked quite amazing for what I needed but I actually already have a really good strobe tuner.
Anyway I found that they also sell this multi function high quality buffer device called a Stereo Boost Selector that can do lots of cool things including a high quality buffered guitar signal split and provides a buffered stereo routing to name just a few features.
I figured using the SBS I can split the guitar signal without signal loss and feed my tuner and pedal chain as well as separately feed my Radial DI with a decent buffered signal which was the main problem I had to solve.
So in the end I bought 2 SBS devices. One for the above use and another one to play around with stereo summing in my FX loop.
I want to see whether your pitfalls on summing stereo could be somewhat overcome by reversing the polarity on one side of the stereo signal feeding the sum device. My radial shotgun can split stereo signals into 2 stereo lines and can also apply a phase reversal to each of the 2 separate stereo lines. Perhaps (I am hoping) it can help with the stereo summing signal cancellation issue you mentioned elsewhere. If not then worst case I have an extra high quality buffer and splitter that I can use for something else in my studio.
I will let you know how it goes once the devices arrive.
Hi Mason, appreciate your videos educating on buffers etc. What’s I find always missing when people take on this topic is how buffers affect touch sensitivity and guitar volume roll down behaviour for instance when there are buffers in front of a touch sensitive drive pedal or amp. Would be great to get some experience and strategies to optimize for those situations. Thanks I’m advance!
Peter, remember a buffer is not a buffer is not a buffer. So saying that "buffers" impact a touch sensitive drive is like having only tried Sushi from a Gas Station and attributing that as the broad spectrum of how Sushi might taste whether it's 7-Eleven or Sugarfish. Remember, that any pedal turned on (true bypass or not) is a buffer. So, you very well may have had a pedal either 1) on at the same time as your touch sensitive pedal meaning there were other buffers present or 2) you used a low quality buffer (and most are terrible, few are good, even fewer are great) that will change the tone, EQ, attack, etc. Now if your touch sensitive pedal was a fuzz...then I concede, don't use a buffer before it. But if it's a standard overdrive, some will be affected by what's driving them, but most won't.
Thanks. Would be interesting to understand how the buffer turning the guitar signal into a low impedance signal potentially changes how the amp (or following pedal) “sees” or receives the pedal? Hope this makes sense.
@@PeterUrbanPhoto again, any pedal "on" will create this effect to a greater or lesser degree. Most pedals won't be that sensitive to the impedance on the input - but some players might like how more loading or capacitance on the input feels or sounds with one particular device. Some might not even like how that device sounds on its own with short cables. If you were a client of mine and building a rig with what you deemed a sensitive pedal, I would figure out with you what you were hearing as less dynamic - was it actually the buffer or is it that you like a more rolled off or loaded down signal for certain pedals and not others? Is it that the pedal is actually impedance sensitive, like a Fuzz Face for example.
Bro, THANK YOU
Very helpful video!
I am putting together my first board for my fender blues Jr. I have a True Tone cs6 power supply and own 5 pedals:
Fuzz Face - mojohand crosstown
Compressor/distortion- philosophers gold
Overdrive- TS9 (which you taught me has a buffer in it)
Delay - Walrus ARP-87
Looper- Ditto +
With the cs6 I can comfortably fit one more. I guess my question is, with the 5 I own, should I consider a buffer, and if so where?
Great video. Dropping "panacea" like a literature teacher too!
LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!
@VertexEffectsinc Hi, thanks. Your videosds are always informative and challenge to look deeper and question what is good bad and neutral. I have a query if you don't mind answering...
I'm using a line 6 catalyst 100watt amp not using the fx loop on the amp just now but sometimes to for time based fx so this vid was very helpful 👌
On my pedalboard, I'm using a digitech trio plus band creator and running my pedals throught the fx loop on this so I can record clean loops or any combination before overdubbed or just playing over the loop recorded, line out is going to audio interface and pc with studio monitors etc so I can record even just by turning down two of the three volume knobs to record in a channel at a time on the daw either the looper, bass and drums separately giving more control and options,
To the point, I've checked the tone with guitar in to amp and through said setup there is some tone suck, on the fx loop I have fist a jhs 3 series compressor to boss od-200(bufferd) to tc bad horse to tc durple (both true bypass) to Gauss tape echo delay (true bypass) then thinking of adding another boss pedal the tera echo-2 buffered but a newer pedal so hoping this buffer will set the tone suck straight having one on each end, the Gauss is currently last in the fx loop on the trio plus band creator pedal but when added it significantly drops in dB to where I have to turn and mess with each user saves on the Boss od-200 it's a great pedal has 3band eq and boost can't split from series to parallel so it helps but the amp Tone with guitar only is way better than with fx looped via the trio pedal even with all pedals off, I'm gonna try adding the boss tera echo-2 and place it last in the loop see if that when off and signal bufferd helps, but if not it's either loop switcher true bypass with buffers or sell them all for the line 6 pod go or something like that.
I am not big into "murder menu madness" or option paralysis but need to keep the tone on the level.
Any advice on what would be a good option for a pedalboard up to 10 pedals with loop switcher, or would the boss tera echo-2 or any pedal time based or not at the end of the trio fx loop be as good as it'll get?
I love creating songs with chord progressions and then either practicing and creating lead lines over them so I'd like to keep the trio or maybe go for a boss looper. Rc500 maybe.
Would be great to hear you thoughts and expertise on this, kind regards.. Mike.
Scotland
best breakdown off subject ever .. right up there with JHS Wampler & Roger Mayer .. But as with a lot of " Mathematics " type people who just don't "get it " that some of us artisitic types have brains that are not wired Directly / bypassed or Buffered & we just don't really want to pick up a Soldering iron or as JHS said just " plug it in & try it " lol So I am standing with one foot in the bath & my shure 57 in one hand when I .. ??? but if there were / was a certified Luthier Tech' Qualification that would be good & not as I recently suffered at the hands of a young Dude in a music shop who just really thought two new 500k pots would be better on my old Squier than the mellow old 250's & I only wanted the volume Knob replaced . No refix no refund no apology no concept of my problem with his lowering the action as well .. ( & I play slide not fast metal ) anyway I really enjoy watching & learn a lot. At least now I am capable of explaining why & what I want. P.s. Tony Joe White had the Best ever Wah gtr Sound & no one makes anything like it .. rumoured to be the same as the one used on " Shaft " for the soundtrack. bye from an old muso dude in Hobbitland in Ye olde Forest of Deane in Englande . ben.
So running a Mesa high wire could serve as both pre and post buffer ? Great info Mason, thank you for all the knowledge you share.
Yes, absolutely
SO GOOD! Thanks! You cover loop switchers briefly and I'm curious of your opinion on the input and output buffers on something like the Boss ES-8.
Same as the buffers in the pedals, not great.
@@VertexEffectsInc I agree, not a fan of the ES-5 buffer. My question is this, I have an ES-5 and I always have SOME pedal on. In this case, I don’t have a need for a dedicated input or output buffer, correct? (I turned the buffer off in my Es-5, because it ruined my tone)
@@MarkKirbyMusic if you have no buffer, it's better than none. The input buffer might work OK, doesn't have a 1M input impedance, but ideally, at least get an output buffer to drive the line back to your amp.
@@VertexEffectsInc did you mean to say if you have one buffer, it’s better than none?
@@MarkKirbyMusic One buffer is better than none, especially on the input. If you want to use the ES5 buffer, use it as an input buffer and get a second output buffer to put dead last.
Thanks Doctor! Great video,as always! Here's a question I should had asked in another video's comment section: what's your opinion for the Empress buffer and ,mainly, the Empress buffer+ ,comparing to the mesa high-wire? Can I use it as an output buffer AND fx loop buffer simultaneously? And what about the boost ability? Can I replace my clean boost (which I run into the fx loop for level) with it (mesa or empress) ? Thanx!!
The High Wire is the best of them. I would use the Kleinulator for the FX Loop, it's designed for that application explicitly, where the High Wire is designed for in front of an amplifier on a pedalboard.
Hi great man!
This vid alone confirmed most of my questions...
But what about fx loop on a digitech trio plus band creator or the like, my one which I love personally and want to keep or upgrade but not keen on the amount of tone suck, so would the fx loop into amp buffer at each end with as much true bypass in-between work the same way?
more critically... does the impedance values- them being different at the amp fx loop and the looper/drum n bass pedal fx loop- matter or is there a margin of difference no greater than/less than rule of thumb to go by on the impedance values and how to match buffer values to make the difference a straight good or even better outcome ie buffers that can give more headroom, variable buffers, dual function if there are any, I'd say that's a matter of two things- excellent results vs budget.
If I can't find anything on your channel or your affiliates, do you have a video with these points you could share please sir,
Also do you have distribution sites in shops in Scotland for the rig gear?
Kind regards,
Mike- Fae Bonnie Scotland 🏴
Hey Mason thank you for this video its very informative👍Always big fan of yours & learnt alot from your videos. Its like school for me & your videos my masterclasses. So, thank you very much🙏
I really enjoyed this video however I have a question, if its ok, I personally love love love fuzz pedals, so, whenever someone talks about buffer I really seek the relationaship between fuzz&buffers.
I mainly use Dunlop jhf1 at the moment & it is first in chain, buffer any where arround it changes the tone and makes it sound not as good.
Is there any way to elliminate this issue?
& Also I have vertex boost pedal which I really love. What would be the best way to use it with my jhf1 fuzz pedal or any other fuzz pedals?
Hoping for you reply.
Thank you very much🙏
If you have a Fuzz, put the input buffer after the fuzz and the output buffer still dead last.
Hi Mason, your video are always awesome and instructive, thank you so much. I have 11 pedals on my board, good quality cables, with two bonafide buffers one in the input and one In the output, 9 true bypass pedals and a ts 808 and a Marshall bluesbreaker MK1. Can this two pedals compromise the tone ?
They should be fine :)
Excellent videos! Very educational. As the result of your videos I rewired my board to use a polytune mini 3 noir for my input buffer and strymon el capistan for my output buffer. Also re-ordered my modulation pedals in front of my overdrive and boost pedals. Does this sound directionally correct?
Watch our video on signal paths :)
Hi Mason, great video as always. Thank you. This was very helpful. I had a question about MXR True Hardwire Bypass. Is this something like the BOSS bypass? Why would PC Timmy (which was true bypass) goto this type of bypass system? Is this a business decision by MXR given it is now 2021 and people are aware of the benefits of True Bypass (with of-course high quality buffers)? I also noticed Whaler by Matthews effect had a tone reducing buffer... Was disappointed to find out because I like your approach. True bypass + high quality buffers. Thanks for reading!!
Hardwire bypass is another way to say True Bypass. There are a few other interchangeable terms like hardwire mechanical bypass, and a few others.
Greetings Mason! So in my board I have 8 pedals going individually into the harley benton fxl8 pro loop switcher. From those 8 only 2 are true bypass (ehx od glove, digitech drop). Do I need a buffer or maybe even two? What do you recommend? If you are intrested below is my chain:
Guitar->Cry Baby Wah->FXL8 Pro (Loops 1-8: Digitech Drop, MXR Phase90, Boss DS2, Ehx OD Glove, Spark Mini Booster, Boss CH1, Joyo D-Seed I, Boss RV6)->Amp. Also a Boss TU3 on the tuner output of the fxl8 pro. Hoping to get your answer! Keep up the great work!
Depends on the quality of the buffer and it's specs and where the buffers are. First and last is ideal. 1M input impedance, and 100 ohm output impedance on both the input and output buffer is ideal. 1M is a non-negotiable, the 100 ohms on the output could be lower, but not higher. The closer to 0 on the output impedance the better.
Thanks for the great video!
Do you recommend running the guitar through input buffer-->vintage Phase 90 (non tru bypass)-->amp in?
Do I need a buffer after the phase 90? Or do you recommend using a tru bypass looper?
All my other effects I run through the effects loop
(Im using the Soldano SLO 100)
If you have any tips for the effects loop that will be great since I have there MXR Vintage Flanger (non tru bypass)
Would be great a buffer solution when fuzz style pedals are used. 😊
Buffer after Fuzz...there's no great buffer solution if you're dealing with an impedance sensitive device.
Great content as always! Do you think the Source Audio Collider has a good buffer to be used as an output buffer?
It's pretty good.
Great video explanation!!! Thanks!!
Just curious, have you ever tried the cheap (under $20) “Moskey” buffer? Looks to be an op-amp buffer.
Hello and congratulations for your videos, always very professional and useful. I wanted to ask you a question. At the beginning of my pedalboard I have a boss bd-2 waza Craft japan immediately after the compressor (true bypass compressor) and then 6 other pedals all true bypass. I was thinking of doing the bd-2w true bypass somehow, perhaps with a single looper. Do you think he's doing the right thing? Another thing I didn't understand: when the bd-2w is turned on, does the buffer inside the blues driver continue to work and consequently affect the sound (and the sound of the other pedals) or the bd-2w's buffer works only when the pedal is off? Thanks for your time. A greeting!
Hello! would you recommend the Peterson Strobostomp mini tuner as a buffer first in the chain? I think it possible to use true bypass or buffered mode on this tuner. Thanks!!!
Amazing video, thank you! So a buffered pedal or an always active true bypass pedal could be considered a buffer if I understand correctly. Does that mean an ISP Decimator G-String, which is basically the last pedal for guitar and FX loop, could be considered a buffer?
That is correct, however buffer quality matters, so you need to look at the input and output impedance of the pedal and it’s location in the signal path. You ideally want around 100 ohms output impedance and 1M input impedance.
Thanks Mason. How do you feel about the buffers in the TC Electronics tuners? Would you use one as an input buffer?
To my knowledge they're the same of the Bona Fide buffers, so that's good
Hey man got a question I haven’t seen you cover yet.
I have a line 6 m13 multi effects pedal (cheaper route for all the effects I need).
I run the 4 cable method with either “true bypass” or “dsp bypass”. Running the time based effects through the loop (it has the options for which run through the loop).
Either way I run it, there is always clipping. When I plug straight into the amp, it’s so clean. But when I run through my m13, it clips. No matter how I try to reduce it, even low volumes, it always has a digital clipping sound.
So the question is, can I fix this or should I go with single pedals that are true bypass and using buffers for any signal loss?
Thanks for the great content. New subscriber for life here!
Tyler, are you using the provided power supply? Are you running the M13 fully bypassed - no effects on? Is the input level at -20 or so? I don't suspect it's a "digital" bypass issue, if you think it is the best way to test is by putting into a parallel mixer so you have the dry thru that stays analog and you can evaluate if the DSP switching is the issue if you think that's what you're hearing. It could also be that the unit itself is having an issue and isn't related to any switching at all.
@@VertexEffectsInc yes I’m using provided power supply, bought it new last year.
I have plugged in to the pedal in every configuration, as far as 4cm or 2cm.
I have also tried plugging into the pedal with all pedals off and it still has a digital clipping/buzz sound. When I turn the power supply off still plugged in, my signal is clear, as far as I can remember. It seems to only happen when using the m13. I found no difference in 4cm, 2cm, effects on/off. The only real difference is when I am completely not using the pedal lol.
I don’t know how to check if it’s at -20.
I have an fx level button on my amp that I have switched on and off and it made no difference..
Hey Doc, love the video, but it brought to mind a question I've had for a long time. What is a "true hardwire bypass" pedal? In the manual, MXR describes the Dyna Comp as being "true hardwire bypass" and I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. Thanks again for all your info.
Just another euphemism for True Bypass.
In my chain I start with a Polytune mini 3 with its buffer on and end with my bigsky on buffered bypass. Pretty much all of my pedals in between are true bypass. What are your thoughts (mainly on the buffers I use)?
Test it...put the entire rig into a true bypass looper and bring it in/out or record your rig both ways and listen back to it and see how transparent it versus a cable into the amp.
Mason, What about running a 12 loop RJM rack switcher with built in buffer? Each my pedals is in its own loop, 1 pedal is 1 loop. I’m running the built in RJM Effect Gizmo buffer in loop 1 with on/off buffer switch on my fractal MFC101 for independent control of buffer state via MIDI. Out of the RJM last loop signal goes into front of AxeFx2. Would u recommend a standalone buffer and how would I wire it in?
My last pedal in the chain is a drum machine-looper 2in1 with TB. I also use a Soul Food as an always on pedal and stack a couple of OD and Dist that are all TB. I got a TC Bonafide Buffer but where should I put it? Also, I rum all of it into a boss katana mk2. Cheers mate.
Ideally two, one first, one last.
Thanks for the video. What is your view on the quality/specs of the buffers in chase bliss pedals? I use a blooper at the end of my quatermaster switcher. Thanks :)
What's the input and output impedance?
Thanks for the super informative video! What about running a wireless receiver (sennheiser xsw-d pedalboard) as first input? Does it serve the purpose of a buffer? Do I need to put a buffer afterwards? Thanks
Yes, but if you ever go corded then you'll need an input buffer. I'd check out what we did for Paul Jackson and the diagram we posted with his rig on how to have a wireless defeat and input buffer active only when you go into the rig corded.
One issue that I've run into is that I want trails on my reverb and delay pedals at the end of pedalboard signal chain. The Strymon El Capistan, for example, needs to be in trails/buffered mode to use the sound-on-sound tape looper function. Do you smaller form Strymon pedals have a good buffer? What about Keeley's ECCOS or Hydra?
I think they're all 100 ohm output impedance regarding Strymon. I don't know about the other pedals you mentioned but you can look it up on their spec sheet I'm sure.
Excellent video! Just wondering: Fuzz Face (silicon or germanium), Rangemaster (silicon or rangemaster) or Octavia/Mythos argonaut placement? Before the buffer? I'm just using one buffer (xotic super clean) in the middle of all of my board (10 pedals), but one buffer it doesn't help so much?
Actual signal: Mythos argonaut - silicon ff - silicon rangemaster - wah - phase 90 - truebypass OD - Xotic super clean (buffered and always on) - polytune - fulltone supatrem - strymon volante - strymon big sky.
Maybe it's better to put the xotic after the rangemaster and then another buffer before the big? Thanks!!
Buffer after impedance sensitive pedals like fuzz, always. Ex. guitar, fuzz 1, fuzz 2, fuzz 3, input buffer, overdrive, modulation, delay, reverb, output buffer, amp. I would look at our recommended list in the description for buffers so you know that you're getting one that actually meets the minimum specs for "neutral".
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks!! :)
Thanks😎👍🎶
Our pleasure!
Thanks for the well-sorted information, I highly appreciate. But what is the reason for that disturbing background noodling noise?
Background music??? I think it's in most of our videos
So if I start my bass ampless pedalboard off with a polytune mini 3 tuner and end it with my Ampeg SCR DI l, with all true bypass pedals in between I’m good? My bass is passive.
I have a radial headlight amp switcher that branches out to 4 different amps. It had a class A input buffer. With four 6 foot cables going to four different amps would it be necessary to have 4 output buffers!
Excellent explanation dude! What about running fuzz first? Output buffer only?
Buffer after fuzz.
@@VertexEffectsInc directly after or end of the pedal chain or both? I run a LOT of pedals. Thanks
@@bouzoukiman5000 After fuzz and at the end of the chain.
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks man!
He should see my pedalboard. I’m sure he’d have a nervous breakdown, Ive got patch cables going over power cables and using a PP2+ tucked right up to the pedals. I need to totally redo my setup.
Hell yeah brother. That's a real mans board, not this OCD shit where there isn't a centimeter of unused space or a speck of dust to be found.
Hopefully you feel like you have the right info to work on it should you choose to. No judgment here just wanna give you the best info I can.
Any chance you can discuss the annoying and loud pops that occur then true bypass pedals when engaging/disengaging them? Is there anything that can be done about that?
Hey Mason! Question if you get a chance. When splitting a guitar signal for parallel processing using an ABY box, would you recommend getting an active ABY box which already contains a buffer or do you think it would be better to go for a passive ABY box and buy a separate buffer?
I have Strymon DIG -> Strymon Volante -> Strymon NightSky at the end of the of my pedalboard - do I still need a dedicated buffer at the end of my signal chain?
You need one first for sure. You might be OK if the Strymon's are always one, they have a 100 ohm output Z.
BJT Buffers can be used for changing your CLEAN guitar tone because SRV used the tube screamer turns OFF the BJT buffer would frequency mask tone shape the clean guitar tone, Jimi Hendrix would use the Univibes CANCEL mode BJT buffer which would make the wah wah more liquid sounded when being sweeped and John mayer uses the Klons BJT buffer for his clean tones. The BJT buffers are a preset EQ circuit that tone shapes the clean tones. This can be used as a good thing or look at it to audiophiles and this is tone sucking the fidelity of your guitar signal.
If your goal is "Neutral" BJT isn't the move. Guys used them, sure...but they didn't often have alternatives and if they could have, they would have.
@@VertexEffectsInc true there wasn't Neutral BJT for some reasons not sure why they didn't make neutral BJT buffers in guitar pedals because them mostly altered the low frequency and rolled off the high frequencies. The Tube screamers BJT buffer rolls off both the low frequencies and high frequencies only passing certain band of mid frequencies. The Tube screamers Buffer Is being used as a mid boost buffer pretty much.
so if i have a buffered pedal at the ending of the chain for example a boss chorus so it goes wha -> phaser -> dist -> boss chorus (buffered pedal while all others are true bypass) -> analog delay, would the buffer from the boss pedal be benefitial?
Compared to nothing, perhaps. Compared to a high quality buffer, no - the Boss isn't comparable. Remember a Buffer isn't a Buffer isn't a buffer. Just like Sushi from a Gas Station isn't the same as Sushi from Nobu. Quality matters and design matters, and just because you have a "buffered pedal" doesn't mean it's any good. There are few buffered pedals where the buffer is actually good quality.
What if you use a Strymon Iridium as your amp? Should the buffer go right before it or does it act as a buffer itself?
You can use the Iridium as the output buffer, it has good quality buffers in it.
Hello, good video, a question, is it true that playing with a wireless guitar you can put a true by pass at the first place in the chain? (They say that the wireless one has a circuit that increases the signal, hence there is no need for a buffer) thank you very much, greetings.
Hi Mason, I'm planning my first pedal board, and I'm considering using your boost/buffer pedal at the beginning of the chain. I watched this video and thought you had separated it out as a better quality option that Boss style. But in the recap/conclusion you lumped your boost pedal in with the Boss style pedals. Can you please clarify if your Boost pedal is the same quality as an independent buffer such as the Mesa Boogie High Wire? Thanks in advance ~
Our boost is of equal quality to the buffers we recommend, like the Mesa Boogie. The Boss pedals are a much lower quality buffer comparatively, however having your pedal buffers in the middle of the chain, like a Boost might be, won't really help you as much as a high quality input and output buffer will. Does that make sense?
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks for the quick reply. I was considering using the Boost as first and last pedal in the chain. Sounds like the Mesa Boogie might have the better in/out configuration to use it as a single unit front end and back end solution.
@@kevingriffin9893 Mesa Boogie is designed for that purpose explicitly. If you want a great boost and volume pedal function our Boost is great for that separately from the high quality buffer.
@@VertexEffectsInc Cool, thanks again man
@@kevingriffin9893 sure thing!
Seems like anything I plug in between the amp and the guitar, even buffers, and I can hear the difference even the people I’m playing for notice it. Playing a cornford and even the best switchers and pedals still color it a bit
Depends what buffer, what cables, it all matters. Just having a buffer doesn't mean it's any good.
@@VertexEffectsInc RJM Switcher and Mogami cables. I can notice even when its a 5 ft cable and a true bypass pedal with a 2 ft mogami patch cable between the amp I still can hear the magical part of the amp leave. Its crazy to me.
Can we do an experiment with 4 DI boxes and a true bypass pedalboard? I hear that signal capacitance is virtually eliminated with XLR cables, so, uh, DI box on the strap, XLR to the board, Etc etc
If you convert to balanced you can get away with a lot more since the impedance is so low, but guitar systems are unbalanced, single ended. I'm not sure about how your'e asking to compare four DI boxes versus a pedalboard.
My first two pedals are a volume pedal and a wah pedal. Should the buffer go before or after these two? Thanks
Depends on the wah. Some are sensitive to buffers. I would try it both ways. Guitar, Buffer, Wah, Volume, Amp and Guitar Wah, Buffer, Volume, Amp
Great video. Even my wife understood it. :-) Thank you!
Glad it helped!
Any Reasons why the Boss Blues Drivers has multiple BJT output buffers? I think the pedals in the 70's and 80's used BJT buffers because of a reason because the designers could of used FET's but they all chose BJT and filtered/eq the clean signals. Why they filtered/EQ the clean buffered signal was to clean of the noise and to pass only a certain frequency that is in the RANGE of the guitar pickup. If you pass all the frequencies from 20hz to 20Khz the guitar pickups frequency range aren't from 20hz to 20Khz plus you have outside EMF, RFI, interferences that I think they were trying to filter out and only passing the guitars pickups range without it also sound to boomy and ear piecing high frequencies.
It depends on the circuit, but ordinarily all the input buffers are JFET, and outputs are BJT. I don't think it was the concerted an effort - there was no standard bypass back then. Most of the Japanese brands were doing this JFET/BJT combo, most of the American companies were doing SPDT switches and still leaving parts of the circuit in parallel with the cable capacitance on the input. I think the JFET/BJT thing was to try to create the cheapest and most manufacturable way to control the impedance of running several pedals in series. Presumably the Boss effects were marketed to use in a series - one into the next. You can see this intent in their pedalboards that have been available since the late 70's and have only recently been updated from 2021. I think they were trying to isolate the guitar from the input of the pedals and the output of the pedals from the following devices (impedance wise). This was done in a way that was available at that time and never adapted much as these pedals have become iconic in the pedal world.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yes the manufactures were wanting you buy their product and put all their pedals in series but they could of just went true bypass it doesn't make sense. I know that Mike Fullerton claims he is the first person to make a 3pole3throw switch 3P3T switch because before Mike Fullerton they didn't make 3P3T he is claiming so they had to used FET switching. I do see BJT input buffers and BJT output buffers which are emitter followers which will DRIVE more current to the next following pedal. The other point is that the BJT input/BJT output buffers are EQing shaping the clean signal this was done for a reason because they could of EQ/shape is for 20hz to 20kzh but all pedal makers back then were shaping the bass and rolling off the high frequencies which doesn't make sense but to only pass the frequency range of the guitar pickup and rejecting the outside frequencies from interferences it seems or hum getting induced by the amplifiers transformers or stage lighting. If not the engineers could of just made neutral BJT input/output buffers so it doesn't make sense why they are EQ shaping the internal buffers.
Definitely makes sense, but it seems to me that almost everything about great electric guitar tone since its inception has been the result of happy accidents that resulted in a deviation from the "neutral" signal to varying degrees. I get that you want these deviations to be intentional, but it's hard to argue that most of the classic tones a lot of us chase were not the result of trying to pass the cleanest most neutral tone possible.
SEPARATELY...is it safe to assume that an active pedal or always on pedal is effectively the same as a dedicated buffer?
I would say they were going for the cleanest they could, but were limited by the time. If they could do it better they would. Any pedal turned on is a "buffer" true bypass or not.
I use an 8 loop Switcher but with 3-4 pedals in some loops, along with a long guitar cable. The switcher has a buffer but I don't think the buffer is good quality so I want to test out a Euna from my guitar, then into my switcher. I have 2 Strymon's in one loop I keep on often, which is at the end of the chain, so that loop would get a good buffer, however I'm thinking of still running another buffer out of the switcher and into the amp as that is at least a 10ft cable equivalent. Does this sound about right? Or can I skip the output buffer due to Strymon loop always on at the end?
Great video, I start looking for something like this because I have a big issue with my pedal board
All my pedals are true bypass and I try to keep my tone as clean as possible
But recently I bought a pigtronix echolution 3 and it drastically changes my tone , now it’s darker and with less db
I did my research and it’s a buffered pedal
Does anybody had this same issue with This pedal ?
Have you tried it by itself to verify it's not something else with the pedalboard or cables?
Great content doc. I just have to ask, how is the buffer on the Xotic Effects Super Clean and Super Sweet? Is it good enough to be used in front and at the end of the chain?
Look up the specs...you're looking for 1M input impedance, 100 ohm output impedance. The Fact that is says "Sweet" or "Clean" are adjectives that shouldn't be part of the word "buffer" - a buffer shouldn't be a distortion generator or an EQ. It should be 1:1, what comes in, comes out - no tone change. A lot of these devices are using cheap JFET input stages for the high input impedance and can get 1M perhaps, but they use BJT or cheaper IC's like a TL0xx that can't drive better than 1K on the output reasonably. That's 10x worse than what I recommend at 100 ohms. The further you get away from 0 ohms on the output impedance the worse it is at dealing with capacitance on the output with any stability.
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks doc!
Hi Doc! Quick question, I have my Boss CS-3 first & almost always on in my chain. Could I use that as an input buffer and then just get a buffer pedal and put it at the end of my rig . Would that be a good way to go about it or what do you think is best ?
You might still want an input buffer first to control the pickup loading at 1M depending on what the input Z is of your compressor.
Thanks, Mason-one more question: do I need an input buffer after my Line 6 G10S wireless system?
No, the wireless is your input buffer. Just an output buffer in this case.
Great video, just one question, I use a tone bender 4 clone (with germanium diode) where do I put it: between guitar and input buffer or after input buffer ?
Guitar, Fuzz, Input buffer, rest of pedals, output buffer.
So if your effects loop is not buffered, would two buffers sandwiching the pedals in the loop suffice?
Not really, you should really have something that's designed to make a passive loop into an active loop like a Kleinulator.
I can't imagine appreciating my guitar pickups without a good buffer. It makes all the difference.
Yes indeed!
i have a musicomlab 3 switch and all my pedals are on it. also i have a passive volume in the middle. this switch has also a buffer button that it pushed in. Do i also need buffers, or thes switch does it for me.. musicomlab efx 3. By the way when i connect just the guitar in the amp i have a pure tone and when i connect it with the switch its like facing 20% volume drop and some tone change..
Musicom has all the buffers you need inside.
I have the Peterson Strobostomp HD. The input in buffered mode is 5 meg, and output is 100 ohm. Would it be worth it to go first into a 1 meg buffer and then run the Peterson in true bypass?
To me, that input impedance is too high. You'd be better off using it in True Bypass mode with a 1M input impedance buffer.
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks for the response! Sounds like a fun project tomorrow while I'm waiting for UPS to deliver my new Steel String mkii 👍
So if I have a Strymon Flint last in chain for reverb and it’s always on I wouldn’t need a buffer afterwards??? So long as I never turn it off it’s always buffering then.
You can test it both ways, but I think it's got 100 ohm output.
What about the MXR Micro Amp? is it a good buffer? Do you recommend put it at the end (using it as a boost)
Compared to what we recommend, no.
@@VertexEffectsInc agree
Is it worth it to buy a dedicated dual buffer? Or would buffered pedals for the beginning and end of chain be sufficient?
If the quality is equally good it doesn't matter if it's two separate input output buffers or combined in one unit (like the Mesa Boogie High Wire)
Hello Mason . I have 14 boss pedals. What buffer should I get? Thank you
You already have at least 28, a few more won’t hurt
Good day Mason,
Is the source audio collider in buffered bypass mode good output buffer for the pedalboard?
Not as good as those we recommend, we also have a video about pedals with high quality built in buffers that you might wanna check out.
@@VertexEffectsInc okay. Thanks for this.
Will you be offering the buffers you have on your diagrams, already assembled at your store anytime on the future?
Perhaps but not for certain.
i have a BOSS ES-5 switcher, do i i have to desengage de internal buffer? and add a couple o bonafide at the start and end of my siggnal? reed the boss specs. says o (1 Mohm in the input) but at the end says 10K ohm) how do affect the signal??
The buffers aren't great but better than no buffer. Ideally you supplement with your own and bypass the Boss buffers.
Like Towelie would say in a high pitched voice, "I have no idea what's going on".
I still don't understand. eg. Boss pedals have a buffer inside. Now many people want true bypass and buy a separate buffer. What's the point, what's the difference.
I’m hoping to get an answer from you, so I have MXR Overdrive and a Boss Super Overdrive and DD 6 delay plus my tuner do I still need two buffers for that? And also is it unnecessary having super overdrive and over drive ?
Those buffers are poor...I wouldn't use them for anything other than their direct function (e.g. delay, overdrive, etc.). You need separate input and output buffers.
Im going into a treble booster and a fuzz face first. Wouldn’t an input buffer kill that concept?
For an impedance sensitive device, you want to put the input buffer after them so they see the guitar directly.