Seeing all your knowledge and efforts , with all the questions we all have, just want to say, thanks Mason for your patience and feedback! You deserve to be respected and I think all the requests and inquiries are proof that you are one of the best in the music industry hands down! Thanks!
No nonsense, no gratuitous self promotion, no over explanation, straight to practical info, ends with practical summary an review. Excellent video. One question though; on bass if I want a Chris squire late 70s envelope filter effect, does that go beside or after compressor?
Thanks for making this so clear, well-organized, and flexible! I think you hit the right balance between offering concrete suggestions but avoiding being too rigid and prescriptive. I also really appreciate that you explained the reasoning behind these rules of thumb without getting too caught in the weeds or irrelevant digressions. Can be hard to achieve this, but very nice work.
I can't believe the difference of putting the lower output overdrive pedal after the higher output overdrive pedal!! Simply amazing. Both pedals now have a new life to them, with better sound and more fullness. Thnx
Dude, all this time I was putting my low gain drives before the high, and couldn't figure out why all that volume reduction and tone suck was taking place. You solved it!
I just tried this method with my pedalboard which I haven't changed in the past 2 years. Wow! The sound is so much cleaner and bright, and the fuzz first sounds incredible! I had to drop everything and comment on this. Thank you! 😁
Your absolutely the best in teaching and advising as to how to builds your pedal board, I've been researching and researching and this video tells me what I needed to know from someone with experience. Much appreciated.
This really is the best video on pedal chain order that's available on TH-cam. I refer to every time I build or reorganize my pedal boards. Thank you for the help!!
@@VertexEffectsInc just a quick question Mason. i have a polytune 3 , which is a buffered tuner which one will go first on my chain. the dunlop cry baby or the polytune3??? thanks!
This is what I needed EXACTLY! You not only get the order but the WHY behind it and other important valuable information that I didn't know that I needed to know. 🤜🤛
Holy cow! I decided to reorder my pedals based on this video, as well as learning that my Spark Mini could do double duty as a buffer. The difference is NIGHT AND DAY! No more hum/buzz/noise. So clean now! Wish I'd found this video ages ago, thank you.
Great video, I’ve already sent this to a few of my friends who always ask my opinion on their signal path. I myself have been using a Timmy into a rat, and was feeling something was off whenever I play at full volume, reversed their order after watching this and going to try in the rehearsals this week. I like to use tremolo at the end of my chain, love the way it chops up the whole thing. Also I saw it somewhere that in vintage amps that came with tremolo and reverb, they put tremolo after the reverb.
This video is toxic garbage. There are no set rules on where to put your pedals. Every piece of gear should be placed in your signal chain and used how it sounds best to your own ears.
Brother, I gotta say! This is the most thorough, thought out, easy to understand board video I have ever seen. New subscriber here! Hoping to find this kind of approach to other confusing associated topics. Thanks Keep'em coming!
My friend you made a believer out of me. My chain WAS: guitar -> 10 ft cable -> Mesa Stowaway buffer -> 5 pedals -> 6 ft cable -> amp All pedals and cables high quality. Well I just added a second stowaway at the end and what a difference! It’s like the guitar instantly because easier to play and more touch sensitive.
HI MASON - EDDIE IN THE UK HERE - THANKS FOR A SUPERB EXPLANATION IN YOUR VIDEO - I NEVER REALISED HOW MANY DIFFERENT COMBINATIONS THERE WERE ! I WILL NOW FOLLOW YOUR ADVICE SO THANKS AGAIN ! BEST REGARDS - EDDIE.
I've always put my distortion and overdrive pedals from lowest to highest gain (and have recommended it to hundreds [if not thousands] of customers in the decade that I worked at a guitar shop.) After watching this video I gave higher gain first a try (in this case a Rat going into a TS9.) It sounded like garbage. And not because I was used to the sound of the TS9 going into the Rat, but because everything got muffled and flabby. I put it back to the way I had it (TS9 into Rat) and got that crisp & articulate sound back. I will still always recommend to other guitarists that lower gain overdrives should go before their higher gain distortions.
A few considerations. 1) This is not "THE WORD" - it's one way to do it and that is stated in the video as a possible way to sequence effects and not the only way. All of this is really a matter of taste. 2) You and I may not hear things the same. Just like I may be just fine with Sushi from a gas station, where your lowest acceptable bar for Sushi is Cafe Nobu. Since we're not calibrated, what you prefer and what I prefer aren't normed. 3) Settings matter. If you're using your RAT or high gain pedal in a lower gain setting that's not very compatible with stacking, you might have mixed results. I generally encourage the gain stacking to be based on how you set the pedal in terms of gain, and not by the overall amount of gain inside the pedal. Also complementary EQs are a consideration when stacking that will sometimes nullify any of my advice on a case by case basis. I'm sure you can find unflattering settings of high gain into low gain just as you can find them low gain into high gain pedal orders. 4) Impedances matter. There will be combinations even within following the order I outlined that won't work because some of the effects might be sub optimal with a higher output Z driving them, or a buffer (low z) driving into the input of any particular device. Since there is NO standard for pedal impedances, you might find some pedals aren't good candidates for stacking in certain orders as a result. To reiterate...this is all subjective, as stated in the video - not the truth. Simply one way to do it that you can improvise with as you please.
Just a quick THANK YOU! for your advice on pedal order, and for all the questions I've had concerning pedals. I've been playing for 32 years and this is the first time I've put a board together....I know, sad story, right? Haha! I'm a singer, and have always just played acoustic or used the amp's effects. Thanks again brother, much appreciated!
Hey Mason - Perhaps you can talk about putting the whole effect chain before an amp vs putting it in the effects loops of the amplifier vs putting just the modulation and time effects in effects loop, and how the tone is affected in these three cases.
I have a quick question concerning a noise gate. Should I still place The noise gate directly after the distortion effects? I think that's one of the most important things you left out of this. I thank you for your time.
I recently have discovered Juan R and he has been another one of U tubes greatest hidden gems. Juan has been extremely helpful in trying to help me set up my Katana Mkii amp and people like Juan R and Vertex Effects are invaluable resources for not just newbies like me but to Everyone in the music community. Thanks to both of you outstanding human beings.
I went to a Robin Trower show many years back at a smaller venue {I sat maybe thirty feet from him}, and after the show he was kind enough to allow me to take a picture of his board. I was surprised at how small it was. The amp he was using was on old 1959, NOT a reissue either. I sat my board up identically to his, but I still don't sound nearly as good as he does.
Another EXCELLENT explanation of not just how but the why! I have seen many videos on this topic over the years and this is the most complete and logical one I've seen. I am very much of the "if it sounds good, it is good" school BUT I will most definitely play with these concepts more and at the very least will have fun doing it! Thanks man for sharing these videos, you truly are putting out some really valuable content and I have learned a ton from just the dozen or so videos I've watched thus far.
Thank you. Im building a pedalboard (always have done all through the Boss Gt6 multi) and between you, jhs and the blokes at that pedal show, i am now convinced buffers are my next purchases in this chain of wonder.
Wow - thank you. First time viewer of your channel and I subscribed immediately. Excellent information and you articulate it very well. I am going to have to find out what ‘buffers’ are. Played live for years but never heard of them. Not much of a gear head or guitarist..mainly used it for rhythm.
Great video. Speaking of “not hard fast rules”, I have Boost=>OD=>Fuzz as stacked pedals where the boost is slightly added high and level and the Fuzz is barely on but roars when the other pedals push it. I go into a Boss TU-3 first (which has a buffer) before everything else. I’ll have to try to move my Wah to the front and also tinker with my fuzz as “pre-buffer” to see how it goes. Thanks again.
This is essential knowledge, it's also to be completely disregarded outside of figuring out why your sound is bad in a certain area or maybe you just have one pedal out of place and you can refer to something like this and see if your set up makes sense. But I find sounds all the time that don't follow this rubric, especially mixing pedal brands, it all goes out the window
If your tuner has a buffered circuit, you have to put it after Impedence Sensitive pedals. If your tuner is true bypass, you can add it first in the chain, closest to the guitar.
I have a DD-200 delay before a Flint (which has verb), followed by a timeline and then a big sky, for precisely that reason - to give me more options. And even if I had a switcher, I'd still have both delays, because the DD-200 gives me up to 5 seconds of delay, and I use that in a song, and the Timeline won't do it but does so much other great stuff. By the same reasoning, the Flint is a crazy good sounding pedal! But in terms of reverb, there are SO MANY cool things you can do with the big sky as well.
@@VertexEffectsInc I dig running a plate style verb with a long tail and a super low dark mix into a delay… then out of the delay into a Fender blackface style spring reverb…. Yummmmmm Tremelo at the end… again for that blackface Fender thing…. Can you tell that a twin reverb and deluxe reverb were my main amps back in the day LOL? I love doing that with my JTM 45 too…
Anyone just stumbling across this should be warned… You’ve reached the pot of gold. Go no further, this is the man. Any questions you ever have on anything, start and end with this dude (Sorry, I mean no disrespect “Mr. Doctor”).
Hey Mason, thanks for sharing your pedalboard knowledge and expertise, it is very much appreciated by all. You have answered so many of my questions and I didn’t even need to ask them. Thanks!
@@VertexEffectsInc Sorry I didn’t have my glasses on. I meant a drop tuning pedal. I thought about it and it would probably go in the modulation section as it is also a pitch shifting pedal?
Man! Articulate, thorough, well explained. This has it all. I've had my two main boards set up like this for years as it does indeed follow conventional pedalboard wisdom, but it does seem like I'm endlessly experimenting with specific fuzz placement albeit up in front part of the chain regardless. Beautifully done my man!
After all these years I found the perfect explanation ever about this subject. Have you made the video using a FX Loop? Man, it’s not a simple puzzle, specially when you include a huge switcher.
Boss pedals usually have a buffer built in to them, right? So would a separate buffer really be necessary if you have a Boss pedal at the beginning and end of the chain instead?
I think it would go where the 1st Buffer is basically. Some tuners are also Buffers. Fuzz pedals with 1, 2, or 3 circuits don’t like Buffers and can sound “off”.
I love having my volume post distortion pre modulation, it allows me the swell the volume while maintaining delay and reverb trails. I also from time to time put my compressor post distortion and pre volume and rock the volume pedal back and forth with the rhythm of what I'm playing giving it a bowed (like a cello) sort of sound.
Man, as a fairly new guitar player that is ready to start messing with pedals, this is easily the best video I have watched on the basic set up of how to hook everything up. Obviously there are probably different ways and other opinions on how to set a pedal board up. But this is more then enough to get you started. And it’s explained so well by yourself and with the use of graphics. Thank you big time! If you ever see this even. LOL. I subbed after 5 minutes of the video!
Hey Mason, thank you for all your shared information. I greatly appreciate all your many tips. Using your guidelines, I was able to successfully build my first pedalboard. One love.
I would put the tuner pedal going very first into the guitar input before the Impedance Sensitive Devices (ISD). (IE: Tuner, ISD, Input Buffer, Dynamic, etc.)
Noise gate should go early in the chain so that it is gating based on your cleanest input signal to best differentiate between what is your instrument input and what is noise. Then you use the noise gate's send/receive loop for any pedals you want to remove noise from (OD/Distortion). Be aware if your noise suppression pedal has a built-in buffer for the impedance sensitive pedals. Then afterwards would be delay/reverb, things with trails that shouldn't get cut by the gate, and the rest of the chain.
@@amoshopson7923 yeah but if you tune with it at last it might change the pitch bc of the effects. En besides its not a signal mute its a tune. Im not mad btw.
If it's true bypass, anywhere early in the chain is fine. If it's buffered, then after your input buffer, or even better paralleled off the output of your input buffer so that the input is always fed on the tuner.
I set my peddle board up totally backwards from this video, but it sounds great! My setup order: Tunner Compressor Distortion Chorus Delay Harmonizer Equalizer Looper 🤘🎸
Personally, I would like my looper before any effects, so I have a clean dry loop, and I can run that through different effects without it being permanently wet
Personally I would put it to the end, to capture the final & ready signal and loop it. As long as the sound is fit for your taste, there are no rights or wrongs :)
I bought a Univibe from Voodoo Labs years back, and couldn't figure out why I couldn't get that Hendrix distorted Univibe sound ala Machine Gun. I thought about it, did some research and figured out that he had the Univibe going into a distorted amp, and apparently before his Fuzz Face. I switched it around and voila, there it was. Brilliant! You really have to experiment. It's like chorus or flanger before or after delay. I played around with that, and realized that delay *before* flange and chorus just sounds better to me. It's subtle, but I hear it. Rather than delay repeats with the sweep of the chorus/flange now being fixed or the same on every repeat, the repeats all hit a different point in the sweep of these pedals. It's sounds more dynamic to these ears. It all has to be played with. There really isn't right or wrong. Even these alleged standards mentioned in this video are not fixed. It depends on the person. I've seen people put pedals in sequences I would never dream of, but it works for them. Having seen that, one "boutique" pedal maker was telling people to put their compressor *after* the distortion/OD pedals. A lot of people began complaining of increased noise after doing this. Well, no wonder! People would put the compressor before the gain and the problem was gone, or improved. Just goes to show, you should *never* trust a so called authority, but rather, trust your own ears.
This is an excellent channelI I think this is an example of the order of pedals if you're not getting distortion from your amp. The order completely changes if you're using a hi gain amp. I use distortion and boost pedals to change the character of my amp's tone set at low to mid gain distortion .I use my eq's pre distortion to also change the character. All my time base effects go through either the effects loop of my amps or after a reactive load on the speaker output of my amps. I think that's the best way to use time base effects because they sound cleaner. The negative part about it is that you need to log around more gear.
George, agreed, we state that in the beginning that this is for a series pedalboard assuming you have all the pedals running into a clean amp. We have a few more of these coming for 4CM using a high gain amp, and Wet/Dry/Wet.
@@VertexEffectsInc I’ve been playing guitar professionally for over 40 years and in my opinion using a reactive load, splitting the signal for dry and for the effects in parallel into a mixer then to a tube power amp is more ideal for me.You can crank your amp as loud as you want to reach the sweet spot. But I’m trying to make my live gear scalable depending on the gig. I’ve never used an effects loop on my amps before until recently. That’s why your channel has been very helpful! For small gigs I can’t log around so much gear! Looking forward for your next video!
Awesome Episode Mason! Great overview of the signal chain anatomy, and valuable info wether you're new to the game or a more experienced player. Keep em' comin' we'll watch more!! Cheers!
I have a basic pedal board with: guitar > overdrive > distortion > noise gate > chorus/flanger > delay > amp I have a 5150 Stealth. When I run this pedal board into the front of the amp on the clean channel, it sounds super thin no matter how I dial the pedals and the amp. HELP! ANYONE!
Uncle Mason! Bass player here, I always watch your videos to understand how effects pedals work with each other, but it would be interesting to see a Bass Pedalboard build, if you ever make one, I would love to see that!
@@VertexEffectsInc imma weirdo and put it last b/c i only have 4 pedals before it and i use it to mute the crazy twist effect i can do with the boss dd-20
Sure...it's possible. Depends mostly on whether you'd used these together - if both are never on at the same time the order of Fuzz > Treble Booster or Treble Booster > Fuzz doesn't make a difference.
I use my boosts and drives in this way: Boss GE-7 -> Nobels ODR-1 -> Analogman KOT -> Friedman BE-OD Deluxe -> Proco Rat. Boss GE-7 first because I use it as a mid boost or other sound boost but not as a real volume boost(Tom Bukovac way). I stack my pedals all the time and I did what you told in the video and moved the high gain pedals to the guitar and it sounded like crap. The whole texture and sound changed if you stacked them. First if you stacked them you got a nice boost of 2 pedals and now you got 2 pedals working against eachother. The way you tell it is stacking a low gain pedal with a high gain pedal... that's not stacking but overthrowing it.
Nick, as the video states...this is a guideline, not an absolute. We're not normed - meaning what you think sounds good, I may not think sounds good. At the end of the day, anything said in this video is a matter of taste and completely subjective. You mentioned guys like Bukovac, I've build several rigs for him and he's been a long time user of our Boost pedals in particular, this is a pretty common use of how he'd stack drives (if he did stack them), in addition to how most of the studio guys will do gain stages on a pedalboard. There can sometimes be some combinations that might not work this way, but remember I'm generalizing for the lowest common denominator, not for any particular set-up that's designed for an individual.
@@VertexEffectsInc true I forgot that it was a guideline. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. But thanks for the video. Who knows it would've worked great and I had never known...
For those asking about what order to put pedals in, Vertex did a great video about it. It’s very detailed and touches on suggested orders as well as “optional” considerations. th-cam.com/video/3lEZb9MZC1c/w-d-xo.html
Those work too. I have my Boss TU-3 first in my chain for that exact reason. I don’t have an out buffer, but I only have a 10 foot cable from the last pedal to the amp.
Rig Doc covers this in a separate video. Generally, you want the 1Meg/100ohm specs for a buffer, but some pedals do not have those ratings because the pedal is designed to function a certain way but may impact overall signal integrity. There is no 'standard' for these values, so you find variance.
@@RobBusinger neat. Thanks for the further insight. How can I find out what different pedals are so I can compare between ones I have and wether or not I need to look into a dedicated buffer?
@@steelman774 I think he mentions some examples in his video. Many builders include in their specs, too. I've probably found it for 75% of mine. If you trial it by including the pedal and then removing it from the chain (like disconnecting) you will be able to audibly observe, too.
Perfect example of signal preference. I've got a EH Soul Food running about half gain into an Earthquakers Plumes running about Half gain. The Plumes definitely has more gain than the Soul Food but to me it sounds better running these 2 pedals lower into higher. I've tried a couple times running them the other way but just doesn't sound right. I am going to try phaser before drive though, and boost right after drive. Thanks again! You're always looking out for us!
Table of Contents:
00:00 Introduction
01:44 Buffers
02:40 Impedance-Sensitive Pedals
03:58 Dynamic Type Pedals
05:36 Distortion/Overdrive Pedals
07:37 EQ/Boost Pedals
09:16 Volume Pedals
11:22 Modulation Pedals
12:47 Time-Based Pedals
14:08 Signal Path Overview
17:00 Conclusion
What about a big muff? It’s not a fuzz pedal that responds to dynamics like a fuzz face. Would you put it where a rat should be?
@@moogsynth87 depends on the era. The silicon versions might be problematic with a buffer, the IC versions won't.
Where I can place a Noisegate (ISP Decimetor G String) in a chain?
@@Edgardo1978Music What are you trying to gate out? Pedal distortion or amp distortion?
@@VertexEffectsInc Distortion pedals
Best pedal order video ever made. Period.
🙏🙏🙏🙏
Dude, echoing that. I get so tired of pedal order videos that say “oh it HAS TO BE this way.” Or “no rules at all, don’t sweat it.”
@@Axiom_Link It's all matter of taste at the end of the day.
Fucking facts bro
What James F said!!!
Always blown away by this guys professionalism and how succinct/eloquent his videos are
That is one hell of a signal chain. I believe I counted about 20 pedals in the example. Excellent food for thought, thank you
trying to cover all the contingencies.
Seeing all your knowledge and efforts , with all the questions we all have, just want to say,
thanks Mason for your patience and feedback!
You deserve to be respected and I think all the requests and inquiries are proof that you are one of the best in the music industry hands down!
Thanks!
Wow. Thanks!
@@VertexEffectsInc would you put the compressor before or after the ep booster?
No nonsense, no gratuitous self promotion, no over explanation, straight to practical info, ends with practical summary an review. Excellent video.
One question though; on bass if I want a Chris squire late 70s envelope filter effect, does that go beside or after compressor?
Thanks for watching! I'd say filter then comp.
Thanks for making this so clear, well-organized, and flexible! I think you hit the right balance between offering concrete suggestions but avoiding being too rigid and prescriptive. I also really appreciate that you explained the reasoning behind these rules of thumb without getting too caught in the weeds or irrelevant digressions. Can be hard to achieve this, but very nice work.
Glad it was helpful!
This is the best explanation of signal path that i have ever heard!
This is the best explanation of the reasoning and purpose for effects chains I have ever seen.
I can't believe the difference of putting the lower output overdrive pedal after the higher output overdrive pedal!! Simply amazing. Both pedals now have a new life to them, with better sound and more fullness. Thnx
Glad you like it!
Dude, all this time I was putting my low gain drives before the high, and couldn't figure out why all that volume reduction and tone suck was taking place. You solved it!
Amazing!
I just tried this method with my pedalboard which I haven't changed in the past 2 years.
Wow! The sound is so much cleaner and bright, and the fuzz first sounds incredible!
I had to drop everything and comment on this.
Thank you! 😁
Glad it helped!
Such a helpful video, thank you! As a long time drummer now dabbling into cheap guitar pedals for the first time, this is much needed.
Same here! Drummer diving into guitar pedals
Your absolutely the best in teaching and advising as to how to builds your pedal board, I've been researching and researching and this video tells me what I needed to know from someone with experience. Much appreciated.
Wow, thanks!
This really is the best video on pedal chain order that's available on TH-cam. I refer to every time I build or reorganize my pedal boards. Thank you for the help!!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for the support Robby!
Great video! I started with 10 questions before the video. Now I have 100 questions. Cant win. 😂
Always trying to make us better and that is why I’m a fan 🙏
Thanks for the support Kevin!!!
@@VertexEffectsInc just a quick question Mason. i have a polytune 3 , which is a buffered tuner which one will go first on my chain. the dunlop cry baby or the polytune3??? thanks!
@@rowell3079 I would try it both ways, but generally buffer after wah.
I came specifically to find out where to place my Tube Screamer and you literally use it in your diagram. Perfect!
👍👍👍
This is what I needed EXACTLY! You not only get the order but the WHY behind it and other important valuable information that I didn't know that I needed to know. 🤜🤛
Glad it was helpful!
Mason, again, I cannot thank you enough for all the advice/recommendations. A true gent!
Happy to help!
You are a great communicator. I can tell that you love your job.
I do!
Such a great video! Love the explanation deep dive & illustration too!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Holy cow! I decided to reorder my pedals based on this video, as well as learning that my Spark Mini could do double duty as a buffer. The difference is NIGHT AND DAY! No more hum/buzz/noise. So clean now! Wish I'd found this video ages ago, thank you.
Great video, I’ve already sent this to a few of my friends who always ask my opinion on their signal path. I myself have been using a Timmy into a rat, and was feeling something was off whenever I play at full volume, reversed their order after watching this and going to try in the rehearsals this week.
I like to use tremolo at the end of my chain, love the way it chops up the whole thing. Also I saw it somewhere that in vintage amps that came with tremolo and reverb, they put tremolo after the reverb.
Thanks for sharing!
Man this video should be an example of top notch youtube tutorials. You are amazing.
Appreciate that
This video is toxic garbage. There are no set rules on where to put your pedals. Every piece of gear should be placed in your signal chain and used how it sounds best to your own ears.
@@officialmetalwill The only toxic garbage here are your comments Will
Brother, I gotta say! This is the most thorough, thought out, easy to understand board video I have ever seen. New subscriber here! Hoping to find this kind of approach to other confusing associated topics.
Thanks
Keep'em coming!
Glad it was helpful!
Could i use as the first buffer pedal one Boss Noise Suppressor pedal? And at the end of chain one Tc Electronic Bonafide buffer?
My friend you made a believer out of me. My chain WAS:
guitar -> 10 ft cable -> Mesa Stowaway buffer -> 5 pedals -> 6 ft cable -> amp
All pedals and cables high quality.
Well I just added a second stowaway at the end and what a difference! It’s like the guitar instantly because easier to play and more touch sensitive.
I would just get the HIgh Wire are it's two in one.
@@VertexEffectsInc I already have 2 X stowaway buffers.
HI MASON - EDDIE IN THE UK HERE - THANKS FOR A SUPERB EXPLANATION IN YOUR VIDEO - I NEVER REALISED HOW MANY DIFFERENT COMBINATIONS THERE WERE !
I WILL NOW FOLLOW YOUR ADVICE SO THANKS AGAIN ! BEST REGARDS - EDDIE.
Great! Thanks for watching!
I've always put my distortion and overdrive pedals from lowest to highest gain (and have recommended it to hundreds [if not thousands] of customers in the decade that I worked at a guitar shop.) After watching this video I gave higher gain first a try (in this case a Rat going into a TS9.)
It sounded like garbage. And not because I was used to the sound of the TS9 going into the Rat, but because everything got muffled and flabby.
I put it back to the way I had it (TS9 into Rat) and got that crisp & articulate sound back. I will still always recommend to other guitarists that lower gain overdrives should go before their higher gain distortions.
A few considerations. 1) This is not "THE WORD" - it's one way to do it and that is stated in the video as a possible way to sequence effects and not the only way. All of this is really a matter of taste. 2) You and I may not hear things the same. Just like I may be just fine with Sushi from a gas station, where your lowest acceptable bar for Sushi is Cafe Nobu. Since we're not calibrated, what you prefer and what I prefer aren't normed. 3) Settings matter. If you're using your RAT or high gain pedal in a lower gain setting that's not very compatible with stacking, you might have mixed results. I generally encourage the gain stacking to be based on how you set the pedal in terms of gain, and not by the overall amount of gain inside the pedal. Also complementary EQs are a consideration when stacking that will sometimes nullify any of my advice on a case by case basis. I'm sure you can find unflattering settings of high gain into low gain just as you can find them low gain into high gain pedal orders. 4) Impedances matter. There will be combinations even within following the order I outlined that won't work because some of the effects might be sub optimal with a higher output Z driving them, or a buffer (low z) driving into the input of any particular device. Since there is NO standard for pedal impedances, you might find some pedals aren't good candidates for stacking in certain orders as a result. To reiterate...this is all subjective, as stated in the video - not the truth. Simply one way to do it that you can improvise with as you please.
This is like the basic text book version of pedal placement. Great place to start.
This guy makes the most helpful videos
Wow! Thanks!
Just a quick THANK YOU! for your advice on pedal order, and for all the questions I've had concerning pedals. I've been playing for 32 years and this is the first time I've put a board together....I know, sad story, right? Haha! I'm a singer, and have always just played acoustic or used the amp's effects. Thanks again brother, much appreciated!
Glad to help!
Man times have changed. Back in the 80s we just moved pedals around until it sounded good. Learned a lot doing stuff like that.
Wish I would’ve been there sucks I was born in the 90s and didn’t start getting into pedals til the late 2000s 😂
We still do that. Literally nothing has changed.
Nothing has changed
Didn’t realize until today I wasn’t subscribed. Been watching for years. Thanks for the reminder.
Welcome! Thanks for checking!
Hey Mason - Perhaps you can talk about putting the whole effect chain before an amp vs putting it in the effects loops of the amplifier vs putting just the modulation and time effects in effects loop, and how the tone is affected in these three cases.
it's a little more advanced....perhaps for the future. My intent here was to capture the general majority of cases in front of an amp.
I second Nihal's comment, definitely a video I'll be waiting for!
me too. i like an overdriven amp, so i think the effects loop is important
@@kensayers144 Indeed if you're producing amp gain
I have a quick question concerning a noise gate. Should I still place The noise gate directly after the distortion effects? I think that's one of the most important things you left out of this. I thank you for your time.
??? Noise gate
See our advanced signal paths video
I recently have discovered Juan R and he has been another one of U tubes greatest hidden gems. Juan has been extremely helpful in trying to help me set up my Katana Mkii amp and people like Juan R and Vertex Effects are invaluable resources for not just newbies like me but to Everyone in the music community. Thanks to both of you outstanding human beings.
Noise gate after the EQ
Where would you put a preamp? Would you put after overdrive or at the start?
This is such critically important information and meticulously presented in a very digestible way. Thank you so much.
Glad it was helpful!
Omg. Moving the EQ to after the distortion pedals game changer. Also from the FX loop moving phase and flanger out of loop fixed those sounds. YES!
I went to a Robin Trower show many years back at a smaller venue {I sat maybe thirty feet from him}, and after the show he was kind enough to allow me to take a picture of his board. I was surprised at how small it was. The amp he was using was on old 1959, NOT a reissue either. I sat my board up identically to his, but I still don't sound nearly as good as he does.
Robin ROCKS!!!
RT was great. The first time I heard him, 'bout fell out of my chair ☺️
Alas, that was many years ago,
sadly they don't make 'em like that anymore ☹️
Thank you Mason. Where would you place a noise gate in the signal chain?
Wondering the same thing
Best explanation ever - way to go
Glad it was helpful!
Another EXCELLENT explanation of not just how but the why! I have seen many videos on this topic over the years and this is the most complete and logical one I've seen. I am very much of the "if it sounds good, it is good" school BUT I will most definitely play with these concepts more and at the very least will have fun doing it! Thanks man for sharing these videos, you truly are putting out some really valuable content and I have learned a ton from just the dozen or so videos I've watched thus far.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you. Im building a pedalboard (always have done all through the Boss Gt6 multi) and between you, jhs and the blokes at that pedal show, i am now convinced buffers are my next purchases in this chain of wonder.
Glad I could help! Make sure you get those with the right specs. See our recommended buffers for the best possible options.
Stupid Question, where do you put a tuner? First from the Guitar?
It's a good question. They should have included it. Yes, first from the guitar.
first or last..most have buffers in them
Wow - thank you. First time viewer of your channel and I subscribed immediately. Excellent information and you articulate it very well. I am going to have to find out what ‘buffers’ are. Played live for years but never heard of them. Not much of a gear head or guitarist..mainly used it for rhythm.
Same.
Cheers man
Enjoyed this vid a lot and did a bit of reshuffle goodness on my board ✊🏾
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video. Speaking of “not hard fast rules”, I have Boost=>OD=>Fuzz as stacked pedals where the boost is slightly added high and level and the Fuzz is barely on but roars when the other pedals push it. I go into a Boss TU-3 first (which has a buffer) before everything else. I’ll have to try to move my Wah to the front and also tinker with my fuzz as “pre-buffer” to see how it goes.
Thanks again.
This is essential knowledge, it's also to be completely disregarded outside of figuring out why your sound is bad in a certain area or maybe you just have one pedal out of place and you can refer to something like this and see if your set up makes sense. But I find sounds all the time that don't follow this rubric, especially mixing pedal brands, it all goes out the window
Great video! Where would you place a noise gate and a digitech whammy pedal? Thanks!
Watch our advanced signal path videos...we explain all this!
Where do you put the tuner
I'm assuming pretty early considering you would probably want the tuner as accurate as possible
Tuner almost always comes first
If your tuner has a buffered circuit, you have to put it after Impedence Sensitive pedals. If your tuner is true bypass, you can add it first in the chain, closest to the guitar.
If you are not sure about the order between delay and reverb, then just buy two for each and order them as DRDR
Or try both or get a switcher that can re-arrange your order :)
I have a DD-200 delay before a Flint (which has verb), followed by a timeline and then a big sky, for precisely that reason - to give me more options. And even if I had a switcher, I'd still have both delays, because the DD-200 gives me up to 5 seconds of delay, and I use that in a song, and the Timeline won't do it but does so much other great stuff. By the same reasoning, the Flint is a crazy good sounding pedal! But in terms of reverb, there are SO MANY cool things you can do with the big sky as well.
@@NoBSMusicReviews I use Specular Tempus -> Timeline -> Bigsky. Specular does both lol
@@VertexEffectsInc I dig running a plate style verb with a long tail and a super low dark mix into a delay… then out of the delay into a Fender blackface style spring reverb…. Yummmmmm
Tremelo at the end… again for that blackface Fender thing…. Can you tell that a twin reverb and deluxe reverb were my main amps back in the day LOL? I love doing that with my
JTM 45 too…
@@maz7100 Nice!
Anyone just stumbling across this should be warned… You’ve reached the pot of gold. Go no further, this is the man. Any questions you ever have on anything, start and end with this dude (Sorry, I mean no disrespect “Mr. Doctor”).
Thanks for watching Joe!
Hey Mason, thanks for sharing your pedalboard knowledge and expertise, it is very much appreciated by all. You have answered so many of my questions and I didn’t even need to ask them. Thanks!
Glad to help!
Okay, another must watch
Glad you dig it!
Hi there I was wondering where you would recommend placing a drop tube pedal in the chain order. Thanks.
For what? What is it doing?
@@VertexEffectsInc Sorry I didn’t have my glasses on. I meant a drop tuning pedal. I thought about it and it would probably go in the modulation section as it is also a pitch shifting pedal?
One thing that is never discussed it the way to adjust gains on pedals so it doesn’t mess up with the channel gain when playing straight in the mixer.
Man! Articulate, thorough, well explained. This has it all.
I've had my two main boards set up like this for years as it does indeed follow conventional pedalboard wisdom, but it does seem like I'm endlessly experimenting with specific fuzz placement albeit up in front part of the chain regardless.
Beautifully done my man!
Thank you so much!
After all these years I found the perfect explanation ever about this subject. Have you made the video using a FX Loop? Man, it’s not a simple puzzle, specially when you include a huge switcher.
Boss pedals usually have a buffer built in to them, right? So would a separate buffer really be necessary if you have a Boss pedal at the beginning and end of the chain instead?
Where I put the tuner pedal? 😱
I was wondering that too
At the front of the chain , so you’re tuning to the pure guitar sound.
Use your brain a little
I think it would go where the 1st Buffer is basically. Some tuners are also Buffers. Fuzz pedals with 1, 2, or 3 circuits don’t like Buffers and can sound “off”.
In your ears 😂
Where would you put a preamp pedal with cab sim and distortion in this path ?
Put it last. Since you're not going into an amp, but rather intobyour Preamp, assuming you are using the Cab Sim last. Then out of that to FOH.
I love having my volume post distortion pre modulation, it allows me the swell the volume while maintaining delay and reverb trails. I also from time to time put my compressor post distortion and pre volume and rock the volume pedal back and forth with the rhythm of what I'm playing giving it a bowed (like a cello) sort of sound.
Man, as a fairly new guitar player that is ready to start messing with pedals, this is easily the best video I have watched on the basic set up of how to hook everything up. Obviously there are probably different ways and other opinions on how to set a pedal board up. But this is more then enough to get you started. And it’s explained so well by yourself and with the use of graphics.
Thank you big time! If you ever see this even. LOL. I subbed after 5 minutes of the video!
Wow! Thanks!!!
Are buffers included in some pedals circuits? If so what’s the effect of lots of buffers?
Where would the looper pedal go in the signal path??
what if you go thur an effects loop
First person that was specific, very specific, considering Germainium treble boosters.. thank you very much
Hey Mason, thank you for all your shared information. I greatly appreciate all your many tips. Using your guidelines, I was able to successfully build my first pedalboard. One love.
For the tuner pedal ?? Thanks
I would put the tuner pedal going very first into the guitar input before the Impedance Sensitive Devices (ISD).
(IE: Tuner, ISD, Input Buffer, Dynamic, etc.)
what about the noise gate?
Noise gate should go early in the chain so that it is gating based on your cleanest input signal to best differentiate between what is your instrument input and what is noise. Then you use the noise gate's send/receive loop for any pedals you want to remove noise from (OD/Distortion). Be aware if your noise suppression pedal has a built-in buffer for the impedance sensitive pedals. Then afterwards would be delay/reverb, things with trails that shouldn't get cut by the gate, and the rest of the chain.
Where does guitar tuner goes ?
First
I do it last to use as a signal mute.
@@amoshopson7923 yeah but if you tune with it at last it might change the pitch bc of the effects. En besides its not a signal mute its a tune. Im not mad btw.
If it's true bypass, anywhere early in the chain is fine. If it's buffered, then after your input buffer, or even better paralleled off the output of your input buffer so that the input is always fed on the tuner.
@@VertexEffectsInc what it is waza or strobostomp? What would you do with those 2?
I set my peddle board up totally backwards from this video, but it sounds great!
My setup order:
Tunner
Compressor
Distortion
Chorus
Delay
Harmonizer
Equalizer
Looper
🤘🎸
This a very clear explanation of something that most people consider sorcery. I saw someone with a send effect first in their chain.
Thanks for watching!
where do i put pre amp or amp/cab sim pedal???
very end after loop pedal
What about a looper? Nice presentation.
Personally, I would like my looper before any effects, so I have a clean dry loop, and I can run that through different effects without it being permanently wet
@@ThePonDePon Thanks for the reply.
Where would I put a looper pedal?
Personally I would put it to the end, to capture the final & ready signal and loop it. As long as the sound is fit for your taste, there are no rights or wrongs :)
Dead last!
Thanks!
This is a really good video for all of us who are starting in this whole universe of pedals
You did an amazing job!
I bought a Univibe from Voodoo Labs years back, and couldn't figure out why I couldn't get that Hendrix distorted Univibe sound ala Machine Gun. I thought about it, did some research and figured out that he had the Univibe going into a distorted amp, and apparently before his Fuzz Face. I switched it around and voila, there it was. Brilliant! You really have to experiment. It's like chorus or flanger before or after delay. I played around with that, and realized that delay *before* flange and chorus just sounds better to me. It's subtle, but I hear it. Rather than delay repeats with the sweep of the chorus/flange now being fixed or the same on every repeat, the repeats all hit a different point in the sweep of these pedals. It's sounds more dynamic to these ears. It all has to be played with. There really isn't right or wrong. Even these alleged standards mentioned in this video are not fixed. It depends on the person. I've seen people put pedals in sequences I would never dream of, but it works for them. Having seen that, one "boutique" pedal maker was telling people to put their compressor *after* the distortion/OD pedals. A lot of people began complaining of increased noise after doing this. Well, no wonder! People would put the compressor before the gain and the problem was gone, or improved. Just goes to show, you should *never* trust a so called authority, but rather, trust your own ears.
Where do i put the tuner
on the head stock
jokes aside, my volume pedal has a tuner out setting. i would put it after impedance sensitive pedals, but before everything else.
I put my polytune first.
No real reason why. Since it's off whenever you're playing. I don't think it matters where in the chain it goes. Wherever's easiest to use and reach.
@@mattosborne1366 same here
Pop sounds are driving me nuts!!
Didn’t hear it til you said - now I’m going insane!
First time im hearing about buffer's.
This is an excellent channelI I think this is an example of the order of pedals if you're not getting distortion from your amp. The order completely changes if you're using a hi gain amp. I use distortion and boost pedals to change the character of my amp's tone set at low to mid gain distortion .I use my eq's pre distortion to also change the character. All my time base effects go through either the effects loop of my amps or after a reactive load on the speaker output of my amps. I think that's the best way to use time base effects because they sound cleaner. The negative part about it is that you need to log around more gear.
George, agreed, we state that in the beginning that this is for a series pedalboard assuming you have all the pedals running into a clean amp. We have a few more of these coming for 4CM using a high gain amp, and Wet/Dry/Wet.
@@VertexEffectsInc I’ve been playing guitar professionally for over 40 years and in my opinion using a reactive load, splitting the signal for dry and for the effects in parallel into a mixer then to a tube power amp is more ideal for me.You can crank your amp as loud as you want to reach the sweet spot. But I’m trying to make my live gear scalable depending on the gig. I’ve never used an effects loop on my amps before until recently. That’s why your channel has been very helpful! For small gigs I can’t log around so much gear! Looking forward for your next video!
@@eljodon Thanks for watching!
Awesome Episode Mason! Great overview of the signal chain anatomy, and valuable info wether you're new to the game or a more experienced player. Keep em' comin' we'll watch more!! Cheers!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you so much.
Thanks for all the support as always!
I have a basic pedal board with:
guitar > overdrive > distortion > noise gate > chorus/flanger > delay > amp
I have a 5150 Stealth. When I run this pedal board into the front of the amp on the clean channel, it sounds super thin no matter how I dial the pedals and the amp.
HELP! ANYONE!
Try running the overdrive after the distortion, and using the flanger and delay in the fx loop it might help.
Thanks Mason! I took your direction and it took care of a few issues I was having especially with the envelope filter consistency. Cheers!
Glad it helped!
Uncle Mason! Bass player here, I always watch your videos to understand how effects pedals work with each other, but it would be interesting to see a Bass Pedalboard build, if you ever make one, I would love to see that!
He has one already
th-cam.com/video/AFB0mAAn8uc/w-d-xo.html
We got it Ale! See TotalEvo7's link below :)
@@VertexEffectsInc 😂😂😂I think you mean "above".
Where you you put Noise Gate?
Watch “Advanced Signal Paths” video
kinda sad my favorite type of pedal wasn't in this video
everyone overlooks the tuner :^(
If it's true bypass, first. If not then after the input buffer.
@@VertexEffectsInc imma weirdo and put it last b/c i only have 4 pedals before it and i use it to mute the crazy twist effect i can do with the boss dd-20
You can still mute with it first
LET'S ASK THE REAL QUESTIONS HERE:
WHERE DO I PUT THE MIKU PEDAL?!
Glad someone said it.
Hi. Is possible put the germanium treble booster before then the fuzz pedal in chain?? Thanks in advance
Sure...it's possible. Depends mostly on whether you'd used these together - if both are never on at the same time the order of Fuzz > Treble Booster or Treble Booster > Fuzz doesn't make a difference.
I use my boosts and drives in this way: Boss GE-7 -> Nobels ODR-1 -> Analogman KOT -> Friedman BE-OD Deluxe -> Proco Rat.
Boss GE-7 first because I use it as a mid boost or other sound boost but not as a real volume boost(Tom Bukovac way).
I stack my pedals all the time and I did what you told in the video and moved the high gain pedals to the guitar and it sounded like crap. The whole texture and sound changed if you stacked them.
First if you stacked them you got a nice boost of 2 pedals and now you got 2 pedals working against eachother.
The way you tell it is stacking a low gain pedal with a high gain pedal... that's not stacking but overthrowing it.
Nick, as the video states...this is a guideline, not an absolute. We're not normed - meaning what you think sounds good, I may not think sounds good. At the end of the day, anything said in this video is a matter of taste and completely subjective. You mentioned guys like Bukovac, I've build several rigs for him and he's been a long time user of our Boost pedals in particular, this is a pretty common use of how he'd stack drives (if he did stack them), in addition to how most of the studio guys will do gain stages on a pedalboard. There can sometimes be some combinations that might not work this way, but remember I'm generalizing for the lowest common denominator, not for any particular set-up that's designed for an individual.
@@VertexEffectsInc true I forgot that it was a guideline. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
But thanks for the video. Who knows it would've worked great and I had never known...
For those asking about what order to put pedals in, Vertex did a great video about it. It’s very detailed and touches on suggested orders as well as “optional” considerations.
th-cam.com/video/3lEZb9MZC1c/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for linking this!
Why use an extra buffer when using 'Boss' or other pedals with buffers built into them ?
Those work too. I have my Boss TU-3 first in my chain for that exact reason. I don’t have an out buffer, but I only have a 10 foot cable from the last pedal to the amp.
Rig Doc covers this in a separate video. Generally, you want the 1Meg/100ohm specs for a buffer, but some pedals do not have those ratings because the pedal is designed to function a certain way but may impact overall signal integrity. There is no 'standard' for these values, so you find variance.
@@RobBusinger neat. Thanks for the further insight. How can I find out what different pedals are so I can compare between ones I have and wether or not I need to look into a dedicated buffer?
@@steelman774 I think he mentions some examples in his video. Many builders include in their specs, too. I've probably found it for 75% of mine. If you trial it by including the pedal and then removing it from the chain (like disconnecting) you will be able to audibly observe, too.
Perfect example of signal preference. I've got a EH Soul Food running about half gain into an Earthquakers Plumes running about Half gain. The Plumes definitely has more gain than the Soul Food but to me it sounds better running these 2 pedals lower into higher. I've tried a couple times running them the other way but just doesn't sound right. I am going to try phaser before drive though, and boost right after drive. Thanks again! You're always looking out for us!
Good stuff!
The best explanation I could find anywhere! Thank you so much! This is so helpful!
Glad it was helpful!
i like my overdrive before the distortion
Thank you, Jack Black.
I was gonna say Danny McBride