it also would make alot of sense if blood would represent mercury(mercury is spirit) from classic alchemy since they considered the spirit to be what connects the soul to the body, you could also consider the human kings who apperantly had all their blood dried up to have gone fully hollow as the spirit represent the mind meaning once you go full hollow you would be without spirit. Saw a recent video from a guy called "max derrat" who had a very intresting take never seen before through the lense of alchemy. The Abyss is also very well explained through alchemy as the first matter or where everything came from essentially.
There's a common theme here that I feel needs to be stated. The dark being inexorably drawn towards life, Aldrich devouring men, the abyss predating the first flame, the art of lifedrain in dark souls 1, the abysswatchers condensing into one. And even the constant link between blood, dark, and invasion covenants all combine to state thus: It is thr nature of dark to latch onto or stain things like a whirlpool leading ever downwards. It will condense, consume, and refine itself until it is one. Dark by itself is at peace, and it is the disparity of the first flame that stirred the dark to action at all. Dark is the tumultuous ocean surface, the abyss the primordial sea, spiraling downward until it is all that remains. Massively condensed and nowhere to go at the base of the world will that stillness be found.
So basically, empty space needing to be filled. It's apart of the very fundamental laws of the world. When an opposite force comes, the other seeks to balance it out.
Dark calms those who have died, as stated in Dark Souls 1’s Tomb of The Giants and Dark Souls 2’s Undead Crypt. There are numerous other instances of Dark and Death being linked, from visual to explicit item descriptions. All the four forces have some sort of push and pull with each other. The Undead Curse is caused and facilitated by Light and Dark, despite being literally a constant state of conflict between Life and Death.
This comment is two years ago, but to add to this, ancient eastern thought didn’t have a concept of “nothingness” as we do today. Their concept of a state of “pre creation” was described as chaotic waters. You see this thought in works such as the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament we Christian’s call it), and the very first page when describing the world before God ordered it was waters. He talked about Buddhism in the video, but it’s pretty much all of the ancient near eastern thoughts. There’s a lot of overlap. I’d say your comment is probably fairly accurate.
I think drakes in DS3 are former humans foremost (ascending to drake form through Dragon Peak), hence being still innately human at core, they were able to be infected by the pus of men when Lothric started to rot as Prince Lothric refused to set himself on fire.
I dont think that's supported by anything. They used to hunt dragons, and throughout that entire paradigm shift towards dragonriding there's utterly no reference to ascending into dragons. In fact, nobody is _ever_ seen successfully transforming into one.
You see the same thing in Bloodborne. At it's heart, the effect of the Old Blood, or rather the blood echoes in said blood, is to cause the rigidity of the physical world to turn fluid, which allows men to transform into beasts. It's also how the player levels up, though with the aid of the Doll and the will that animates it. Thus the player's transformation is controlled, measured and purposeful whereas the common folk of Yharnam fall victim to chaotic transformations without the will to direct them.
I always felt the fire, or light, from the bonfires catalyzed the Souls into action/changing form for our benefit...it couldn't have happened without fire/light. I know Estus is bottled fire... everything powerful and magical in Dark Souls is because of the light. Which is why Frampt wants to shut that sht down.
I’m a little sad that Vendrick only got a small cameo near the end. I feel like he has some of the most insightful dialogue about the reality of mans choices and the fate of the Dark.
“A world without life and death” sounds like the state of the world before the First Flame came to be. And the Fire Keeper said that one day flame with come again. I think that’s an okay ending because it means the natural cycle of the world is restored. It may suck, sure, but nature doesn’t care doesn’t she?
"Fear not, the dark, my friend. And let the feast begin" Initially I had not idea what this meant, I always thought feast referred to him eating my character, or something like that. However now I believe I understand what he means. I think what he's saying is not to fear the inevitable, as in the dark is inevitable, and keeping the flame lit is in itself proof we fear this inevitable darkness. "Letting the feast begin" is the exact response to have if you're truly accepting the dark, you're not denying the reality of the gnawing of ones flesh, which could make anyone uncomfortable, but that's the fear that needs to be repelled. Therefore your open to your fears coming true, you face the possibility with strength, you welcome the feast to begin not because you necessarily want it, but because you know living in fear is worse.
This is exactly what I've pondered about considering the dark and humanity in Dark Souls and the connections to Demon's Souls, Bloodborne, Sekiro and Berserk as well. Ideas and stuff like ''will'', negative and positive appraisals of the Dark, Abyss and humans in Souls series and human darkness in Berserk. These things have been swirling in my mind pretty much ceaselessly. This is all that I have thought about and *more*! This video is exactly what I have wanted for months or even years. The lore of these games and Berserk and such things are my most persistent and powerful obsession and I don't think this video has quenched that obsession still. That is to say, I'm even more captivated by it all. Thank you LP for giving tangible and organized form to these thoughts.
Same. Been ruminating on this stuff for years, hah. Souls games really are metaphysical essays on life - expressed through art (in this case the video game medium).
The amusing thing is that Berserk treats it more accurately, and consequently the darkness of Berserk is the exact opposite of that in Dark Souls. Meanwhile people look at the artistic elements and think that Dark Souls is much like Berserk, but it's really the opposite concept with a skinsuit veneer of similarity. Berserk is simultaneously a much more unpleasant world than Dark Souls, and yet one with hope. Bersek is a world with clear and present Evil, but no recognized Good, however it is possible and even necessary that there is Good somewhere in it. Meanwhile Dark Souls is a world where Good and Evil aren't real things to begin with, just perceptual conceits. In Dark Souls, nihilism is the logical conclusion, and hence the ultimate philosophy.
If you want to better understand the concept of "will", look up "the world as will and representation" by arthur schopenhauer. Darksouls takes alot from it i feel. Though it may be because of its heavily eastern inspired concepts
im kinda late but at 30:57 this part is backed by the fact that when you die you leave a bloodstain containing your souls, also Father Ariandel reviving Friede with his blood/soul also backed by the fact that you can transpose an item related to Ariandel(the whip) from Friede's soul
I've seen this confusion about the "no" particle before, and I completely agree with you. "Shingeki no Kyojin" has been at first translated as "Attack on Titan". But a few seasons in, when we find out more about the Titans, we discovered that it was supposed to be "Titan of Attack/Attack Titan", which is Eren's Titan's name.
Yep, the "no" due to Japanese grammar, is more appropriately translated to English as something like ", the". Therefore Shingeki no Kyojin is more like "Attack, the Titan", but since English doesn't have the same grammar, is often erroneously translated as just "the", so people think it's "Attack the Titan", hence "Attack on Titan".
This was such a dense, detailed and ambitious topic to cover, on top of one that spans literally ALL of the games, and you absolutely killed it! Thought-provoking work as always, you've given me a ton to think about! Definitely need to rewatch this a couple of times to let it all sink in.
It is amazing that there is still so much lore left unexplored that you still have more than enough content to make more videos. I look forward to seeing what themes are carried over to Elden Ring, but until then, I'd love more exploration of the Dark, the Abyss and Blood. Please keep up the good work.
I think youre right about the abyss. Perhaps within the cycle, dark settles downward and pools in the abyss? That would explain why NPCs cant differentiate from them. Also, the abyss it self isnt dark (devoid of light) in the sense that you can see everything clearly. Unlike Tomb of the Giants for example.
This is... is so well made, going deep into the abyss of darkness to try to find similarities and define a nature to one of the, easy to misinterpret, core concepts of the series. Looking foward to more videos like tis in the future
@@YavNe Mostly the method that he uses to present. Multiple times he explains concepts with in game lore, explains clearly what may actually be intended, all without presuming knowledge on the audiences part and without making it sound like either talking down, or that he knows something you don't. Does that make sense?
One minor thing I noticed: the Impurity/Yodomi rune from Bloodborne physically almost looks like a bleeding human holding their arms up. Just a possible visual interpretation, but since you pointed out that the Deep is associated with bleed and bloodletting, it's another link between DS3 and Bloodborne.
21:18 I think the meaning of this is much simpler. Where there is fire, shadows are chaotic like light is. In the abyss, there are no shadows because there is no light to cast any, it's all dark. In the opening to dark souls 1, the first flame _created_ "light and dark", since those are disparities. Before flame, everything was "gray crags." Not dark. Interestingly, though, after the first flame, life came "from the dark" The age of dark is different from the age of ancient
Well said, I believe this is closer to the truth of this matter, and is often overlooked. Dark and Light are Dualities that did not exist before Disparity (the First Flame).
I truly appreciate your critique through this lens which is what allows the community to better understand the soulsverse. it is truly amazing that such community can keep picking away at understanding such a mythology that was scarcely understood in it's adolescence.
My favourite item description: Agape ring: (Agape can mean Gaping or can refer to the Love of God) "All things are rooted in souls, but what drives our thirst for them? Abstinence from this elixir may be the truest homage to an enduring Self"
Remember, one not ken to fire cannot paint a world. One consumed by fire must not paint a world. ..but Vendrick was right. There is another path. A cold, dark, and very gentle one..
I never really understood or got behind the theory that dragons are related to the Abyss and the Dark (DS2 scale description aside), but when you got to the part showing hollows transforming into pus of man and trees, suddenly the theory clicked for me. You've clearly put a lot of work and thought into this, and it shows. This video is amazing LP
I think they are meant to represent equilibrium among the forces ruling the world of Dark souls. NThey are technically undead since they lack souls (death) but are not hollows and don't suffer the mental decay of both gods and humans (life). They are covered in indestructable scales of darkness (dark) but they breath pure fire, and some even blasts of energy (light). the dragons, as well as the age of ancients, were the Wuji between the Yin of the gods and the yang of humanity.
I always felt that the flame represented an awakening of a higher consciousness i.e. self awareness, self reflection, emotion, and sense of existence. The flame caused the void to express itself through cycles, if that makes sense. In the game everything is a mirrored reflection of blackness or unconsciousness. Sort of like "as above so below" in alchemy. Theres so much depth and story to these games that its impossible to think miyazaki consciously created and connected certain archetypes and themes simply because he is well read in ancient religions and mythologies. I think these things are embedded very deep in human subconscious and are expressed through creativity very often not by sole intention...which is why i think so many people connect deeply with soulsborne games
An amazing video. LP didn't start with lore about characters or item descriptions. This mad lad chose to tackle the biggest enigma in soulsborne lore. Impressive, and well done .
37:37 Klimt was the former Archbishop of Carim - the Aldrich Faithful took over when Sulyvahn deposed Gwyndolin as Allfather of the Way of White. They chose to cover the statues rather than destroy them because Sulyvahn is also a Velka worshipper (Greatsword of Judgment, Darkmoon Ritual Spear). Also, it's a reference to the veil of Isis or Maya.
I need more stuff like this, it really helps me to understand the deeper form of Miyazaki's way of storytelling, not through direct approach but through understanding what's presented to you and the symbolism behind it.
This is the kind of video I love to see. You mention a lot of ideas I think are really under-explored among the fans who theorize, particularly the theological and metaphysical concepts Miyazaki appears to be drawing from for these games. This is definitely one of the themes with which Miyazaki seems particularly fascinated. Hope to see more videos like this one.
39:00 I believe there was some cut content involving the cyst-backed things. There was an enemy that had it's back break open and whatnot. Although I hope I'm not confusing games..
Watching EpicnameBro in 2010, theorizing lore: Damn, this game is so rich, this explains everything Vaatividya in 2012: Wow, he uncovered everything, no way one can go deeper Redgrave in 2016: Ok, this is it, how could the game lore be examined any further? Brilliant! Max Derrat/Illusory Wall and your Channel in 2021: Ok, I got it, this game/series can be and will be most likely still be a subject of debate and theorycrafting in decades to come.
Excellent video! I'm still amazed at the richness and depth of FromSoft lore. Especially the parts about stagnation really resonated with me. Great stuff, thank you good sir!
We are probably wrong in trying to associate darkness to being corrupt Maybe the dark was kinda chill, but because of gywn not letting the cycle continue, it caused the dark to become way more rampant and monstrous
Man idk how you only have 9.4k subs atm. Don't worry though your channel is amazing and the content is just fantastic! Keep up with it please you've definitely got a loyal and organically growing audience!
My headcanon has always been that the Painter in AoA is using the Blood of the Dark Soul to paint Yharnam. Hence why the more pious, good natured people become some of the most horrific beasts.
I wouldnt say that anyone in bloodborne who is pious has simultaneously a good nature to be honest. Except (maybe?) Father Gascoigne, and he was quite far from being one of the most horrific beasts.
@@lommmmo Yeah, no. I'd say the priesthood becoming the most horrific beasts is both symbolically to show that the church is corrupt to the core and logically because they work with blood the most out of anyone in Yharnam.
While I like/love the idea of Bloodborne being the new Dark Soul created Painted World...I have to agree with the other comment the pious people of Yharnam are far from good natured they're extremely corrupt morally bankrupt beings and them turning into the most horrific beasts indicates their truly vile natures they kept "hidden". Besides that I do have to question the nature of the Great Ones and the Dream and Nightmare Worlds...Why would the Painter create these things? Or were they accidentally created from primeval emotions of the Dark? Like if she was trying to create a better more comfortable world for Humans to live in...If this theory is true she failed quite horrifically. She arguably made something worse and inherently darker...But I guess that makes sense given the ingredients used.
@@flamesofchaos13the painter didn't make the world of BB worse or darker: the world of BB was made horrific by the people in it, Nightmares are made by people, as seen by Micolash. Also, none of the great ones even attack you until you attack them.
I don't agree with the distinction between Abyss and Dark I think it's fair to say abyss can be created, since we know there is abyss in New Londo where there was not before, and there are abysses in multiple different geographic locations (New Londo, Oolacile, Carthus) And on that assumption: Abyss is born from excessive humanity - Manus, The Darkwraiths, Carthus. I think Abyss must be dark in nature. And consequently abyss cannot predate fire The world before fire is Grey, not Black. What exists before is not light or dark, so it cannot be dark by default.
I've heard many theories and explanations regarding the nature of the Dark and the Abyss. Looking forward to what I hope is a more well researched and explained discussion as I start this playlist
This video is very well thought through with the wording, tightly paced and has fantastic interpretations on the research we have to do in the games. I totally understood the dark soul blood by it’s English translation cause it just made sense that the blood would be “dry” but that being metaphorical. I interpreted the blood of the Pygmy Lords as containing the soul. Part may be that we bleed and when we die in game we turn into a soul-like dust so maybe that’s another interpretation.
But full circle; is fearing the dark the closest way to have the least amount of corruption? Embracing the dark turns you into a monster. Is the best way to do neither? Neither fear nor embrace? But by default that would mean being relatively weak. To not be seeking power at all and being detached. And to face against it you still turn into it. And the same with the flame.
So I have a theory as to why dark was always there even when fire wasn’t. Because darkness is always around in absence of light, and if fire is light; places without fire are dark…which would include places away from fire. The thing about dark is if it exists without light then it makes sense it would exist before fire because there was no light at all. The fire brought light with it. The abyss, while full of scary things is still peaceful, nothing there tries to hurt each other vs when there is fire in which case people make war and strife with each other. The ‘disparity’ that fire brought, was not bringing darkness itself, but rather highlighting that there is something not like it. Fire only showed the difference between dark, which was the only thing before in addition to dragons and the like; most people chose this new concept(fire) and the things(light, heat, death, ect.) that come with it. Those that stayed with the dark upon siding with the furtive pygmy are merely embracing what they already had. Really the embracing of dark vs light is like that “reject modernity, embrace tradition” at least for pygmies, humans and kin. They are rejecting the newness of the light and sticking with what they already had.
If you pick being a Cleric as a starter class, you have something on your back, just like with the pilgrims. And the description of the robes even depicts that same thing, to ensure that darkness would not spread.
I can't believe I never noticed the connection between the pus of man and the wyverns. I thought that the wyvers were infected with that parasite but it makes so much sense to think that the pus of man were the dragons in the first place. That's why the wyvers become empty shells when you attack their "heart" in Lothric Castle.
Man, your videos get better with each one I watch. A note about Aldritch's transformation which you didn't discuss, though: Hawkwood says of him that "He ate so many [men] that he bloated like a drowned pig, then softened into sludge, so they stuck him in the Cathedral of the Deep." It seems that yes, cannibalism in DS can transform someone in such a radical manner.
The entire concept of formlessness or dark being things is a relic of the inability of the human mind to understand the concept of "not". Darkness is not a thing. It is the absence of a thing, namely light. Similarly, formlessness is not a thing, it is an absence of form. While both darkness and formlessness can be useful, they are not things. They are what you have when you lack something. To think of "not" as "is" is the fundamental madness, and the primal abstraction that undergirds the first sin of vainglory, which is to think of one's self as one is not.
My interpretation of the withered blood of the pygmies was that by spreading the power of the Dark Soul amongst them all, it had faded, aided by the seal of Fire, and thus, much like how we killed all the holders of the fragments of Gwyn's soul in DS1, Gael had to kill and absorb the fragments from all those it had spread to, corrupting and twisting him with desire like the Gaping Dragon or Covetous Demon. I love the video, especially when yoj being up the original Japanese and symbolism that gets lost in the Western translation, it really helps fill put the story
This video has really helped cement my own head cannon on how fire, dark, light, life and death all connect. I've had many conversations with my friends about what exactly letting the flames fade would mean and I always thought that there could be no such thing as an age of dark because without the fire everything would return to the primordial age.
If the Usurpation of Fire is a world created by a Hollow, a third option to the binary cycle, I see parallels to the path of the dragon striving for a third option. So if the usurpation of fire is similar to the path of the dragon, does this imply that a world made by hollows could be a colorless landscape, full of stone dragons, and covered in fog? Are we forever stuck in the cycle because we can not see a bigger picture?
I also really love how all that stagnation is also a metaphor for Dark Souls as a game series and how it needs to end despite being so popular and people wanting more. Miyazaki is more comfortable making a fresh new world rather than draging on and on with the same one. Blood of the dark souls to paint a new world is also a metaphor for using all experience from Dark Souls series is that he will make a new game.
I do wonder if it would be possible to look into the Chaos Flame and maybe the other two Lord Souls in a future video. Though the latter two don't really have much information on them and it would be a lot more about inference and observations. Like what is a Light Soul, we know what a Dark Soul is at the very least, but not much about what seems to be the standard and what is spread beyond just Man's souls.
It's interesting how many misconceptions & misunderstandings there are of the Dark Soul's lore. Largely down to poor translation from Japanese to English. I really enjoy the content of the Dark Soul's creators. Who have an accurate understanding of Miyazaki's lore. Which is akin to solving a mystery, or putting together a vast puzzle. Great work!👍👊
Liked commented and subscribed! This was amazing :) This works fairly well with something i've been tinkering with based almost entirely on DS 1 and it's curious humanity drops from bosses. (Quote from my reddit post) "I do not believe the humanity sprites are the same thing as a fragment of the Dark soul but that they're a manifestation of the physical aspect of life. I hold it to be true that all living things come from the Dark as the They in the intro, including gods, witches and dragons. That all life comes from the Dark can be strengthened by the bosses and enemies that drop humanity (DS1). Because all life comes from the Dark all life contains humanity and there is really only three of the bosses that challenge this model and that is Smough, Gwyn and Artorias, i'll deal with these at the end. The fact that kalameet has humanity is in line with the dragons being infected with life at the dawn of the Age of Fire (Miazaki interview). And the Gaping dragon, is likely female. Every twin humanity we aquire in the game is found on female corpses, from female bosses or twin bosses like the gargoyles and this is in line with the Dark being tied to life as only women can bear new life. This motif of women as lifebearers would also explain why maidens make good firekeepers as they are naturally bearers of new humanity they act as a vessel through the bonfires to amass and burn humanity for the Age of Fire. It also explains Chaos as burning humanity strengthens Fire it makes sense fore Fire witches to employ it and perhaps as females be particulary adept at it. I think the soul the Witch of Izalith used to create her new flame was her unborn child and it makes sense that these mixings might have created the flame of chaos. I also believe the bug in her womb is that same unborn child twisted by the event. So then what are "regular" souls? I believe they are the other side of the coin in that where humanity is physical, instinctual existence they are more in line with demon's souls perception of them in that they are our mind, there described as clarity. They are what we use to effect and understand our surroundings and that is why you need intellect to cast soul sorcery or faith to cast miracles. And what are the lord souls? If Souls are the mind and our ability to inforce that will through magic, miracles and other ways then i believe they are a particularly fantastically powerful expressions of that. The Lords souls make it so they can inforce their will with unrivaled power. And what of the Dark Soul? I believe it is like the others but that the pygmy and his clan turned their minds to the Dark like Gwyn to Light, the Witch to Fire/Chaos and Nito to Death. This can be strengthened by looking at the intro cinematic, the furtive pygmy's soul looks nothing like a humanity sprite. I believe it being called humanity is simply a political move to associate the frightening Dark with Gwyns political enemies, the humans. I also believe the abyss to be a sort of primordial ooze from which life originated, this is supported by descriptions in DS3 of the ringed knight equipment where it being forged in the abyss betrays a smidgen of life. Now for some problems with this theory and speculative solutions, namely the bosses with no humanity drop. Gwyndolyn and Ornstein are illusions and that would be a good reason for them to not drop souls. As for Smough, Gwyn and Artorias reaching a conclusive reason is harder. Gwyn and artorias seem to be of the god clan and rhe gods are described in DS3 as beings of fire and this might be a clue. Nito and Izalith still drop humanity maybe because chaos needs humanity to function and death can only be relevant in relation to life. Gwyns clan may have repressed the Dark within them, to become as close to pure Fire/Light/Power as possible. They may have surpressed it to the point where one does not earn a full humanity sprite from them upon defeat. Finally I feel alot of people assume we are linking the flames at the end by feeding it our powerful soul but this being the whole truth does not compute for me. If we look at the system set up in lordran, whats actually feeding the flames is humanity through a network of bonfires all connected to the first flame so it stands to reason that humanity is the fuel. And why would our powerful Lord Souls be left at the door of the Kiln? The undead seem to be a means of mass producing humanity for the fire but then what makes linking the first flame essential? What does inheriting the flame mean?"
Dude this video was fucking awesome. I loved how you incorporated Sekiro as that is my favorite of the FS games but had no idea of just how close they keep together the themes. This gave me a excellent understanding of the lore and tbh you are a very serious competitor to Vaati, his stories are very tragic but well told but when it comes to analysis and best case scenarios to understanding the world your on his heels my friend I’ve never truly understood Gaels item in question The Dark Soul but my God you’ve given the best explanation yet, also placing a distinction between the dark, abyss, and deep was very well done and those Locusts were spitting facts I actually really enjoy them as they are trying to tell you that the dark is not to be feared, that over the series it has been dragged and berated as this unholy abomination of a place but that is a lie of the gods and Aldia & Kaathe also try and warn you, even the Pygmy at the beginning of the dlc will mock you if you lie to him and tell him your serve the gods as he knows that they are long dead and any person serving them would never visit such a place for their fear prevents them so. So much good here in this video to much talk about as my fingers are burning but anyway I fucking loved it man keep it up bro.
What confused me is everyone talks about the shell in there backs because the pus of man but what about in the ringed city where there are them things coming out of the pilgrims backs that control the angles
Godlike work linking all these concepts together and explaining them in a non-convoluted way! Can't wait for Vaati to "borrow" this video for his channel.
Excellent video Protag even I having disagreements with some topics you made great observations on the subject(one of the best here on youtube) . One more thing sorry for the poor quality of the footage I wish I could send some better lol
A bit of a correction on 17:40 : Kalameet is not an Everlasting Dragon. While the games never really go out of their way to differentiate the different kinds of dragons, pay attention to how the Obsidian Greatsword description calls him an "Ancient Dragon" and not an Everlasting Dragon. If we go by the Dark Souls intro, utilizing lightning is essential for hurting, let alone kill Everlasting Dragons, a fact that is reinforced by the description of the Lightning Stake miracle in Dark Souls 3. Given that Kalameet, Sinh and Midir can be hurt and killed without ever using lightning, it stands to reason that these three (as well as the other dragons encountered such as the wyverns) are not Everlasting Dragons from the Age of Ancients, but instead descendents of the Everlasting Dragons. Since the Gaping Dragon was corrupted by life and used to be an Everlasting Dragon before that, perhaps the same corruption caused the other Everlasting Dragons to desire to procreate in order to keep their kind from going extinct?
What if abyss was more linked to creatures ? Most of dark souls creatures seem to be born with the first flame. You could say, cast by a mix of shadow (dark) and light (flame). Those beings thus contain a part of dark and flame within themselves. But some beings try to pursue one specific path. In our case, path of the dark, then slowly killing their fire part until they obliterate it. Such beings become "unatural" and thus fall to the abyss. This seems consistant with the transformation of Magnus. From this moment, they become "flame devourers" (that would be why abyss weapons are efficient against gods) with such an aura flowing from their body. The aura also contaminates nearby beings as without their flame part, they become part of the abyss.
I didn’t at all gather from the 2 active wyverns in lothric castle that they came from the pus of man. Lothric kept tame wyverns. The pus is controlling them or binding them somehow. I’m interested, why do you assume the wyverns come from the pus directly, when the simple fact is that lothric kept wyverns around like Drangleic
That's a good question, and it requires a bit of a nuanced answer, so I apologize if my answer falls short in some regard. TH-cam isn't the best place to have a super-detailed conversation. As for the Pus of Men, when you destroy them in Lothric, the Wyverns themselves disappear. I think it's an interesting idea they have a parasitic relationship to the wyverns. I like it, and it's not one I've heard before. Their appearances suggest a link to Wyverns, Dragons, or Drakes because even in the ones prowling the High Wall or the Consumed King's Garden, they have tiny spots which resemble the scales of dragons. I think this is relevant when we consider how part of Seath's research into immortality, and the Everlasting Dragons' scales of immortality coincided with his experiments on humans. Granted, this doesn't mean they're definitively connected, but between these examples and the followers of the Path of the Dragon being able to turn into dragons, there are some concrete connections worth considering.
(before I even watch the video) I always think of DS1 "metaphors" of "Dark" and "Flame"/"Fire" as the "corruption" of desires and ambitions. I call it "corruption" because that's how Aldia frames it. Humanity is nothing with them, but they can live on with the bare minimum, or with no will at all. But with the "corruption" of desires and ambitions (can also be called "wants"), humanity can create great things, but desires do corrupt. Humanity are lured toward "Dark" because it's where they're from. Just like how Vendrick feels "tranquil" near Nashandra. But "Dark", as pointed out by many Dark Spells in DS1, can also damage "hollows" (aka human), perhaps because the human that you fight do have some will, some "souls" left in them. And that "souls" give them will, and also a disadvantage, making human vulnerable to their own beginning - the "Dark". But the "Flames" never dies. "Flames" and "Dark" are just parts of a cycle, in Dark Souls.
Is it possible to take the blood of the dark soul to the kiln of the first flame?? If so, does it do anything or change anything, by having or bringing the dark soul to the first flame? From what I understand, the dark soul is the only lord soul which has never truly been returned to the first flame.
And it seems like linking the fire has completely stopped working in 3 which could be Miyazaki saying things have been dragged on as much as possible, not only in-universe but as far as the series goes as well. Which would make Lord of Hollows the ending for those who don't want to let go even if things can't move on anymore, also both in-universe and as far as the series goes because there won't be a new entry
I think the Abyss and the Dark are the same thing. However, I think the Dark (as the hungry, obsessive thing that we know it to be - what we encounter in the games) appears to be a transformation of the Abyss. I think the Dark, as a corrosive phenomenon, is what happens when the Abyss encounters a force of nature - like the first flame. So, symbolically, I think the Dark is supposed to be what happens when Fire reveals contrasts between light and dark. But I think this symbolism is intrinsically tied to the themes of suppression in the game. Which is: suffering happens when the nature of the world is thrown out of balance - when one side overpowers the other.
I wasn't too impressed with some of your other content, but I might check some more of it out after this, very good video. You don't super push any far-fetched contrived interpretations like a lot of other souls lore youtubers, you present the text and make reasonable inferences from it (even if I disagree with some of them), which is neat. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the Undead Curse and the Darksign, because I think there is a lot of misinterpretation around the cause and nature of it.
Souls living in the blood has been a thing since demon's souls if you think about it. *Where do you find your lost souls after you die?*
Me and my friend had a discussion about that while we played through DS1so I’m glad to see that someone thought of this too
it also would make alot of sense if blood would represent mercury(mercury is spirit) from classic alchemy since they considered the spirit to be what connects the soul to the body, you could also consider the human kings who apperantly had all their blood dried up to have gone fully hollow as the spirit represent the mind meaning once you go full hollow you would be without spirit. Saw a recent video from a guy called "max derrat" who had a very intresting take never seen before through the lense of alchemy. The Abyss is also very well explained through alchemy as the first matter or where everything came from essentially.
as a side note in blood borne you can draw blood from your character to gain "quicksilver" bullets and quicksilver is another name for mercury.
@@Dartium ergo spirit bullets
In the blood stain
There's a common theme here that I feel needs to be stated. The dark being inexorably drawn towards life, Aldrich devouring men, the abyss predating the first flame, the art of lifedrain in dark souls 1, the abysswatchers condensing into one. And even the constant link between blood, dark, and invasion covenants all combine to state thus:
It is thr nature of dark to latch onto or stain things like a whirlpool leading ever downwards. It will condense, consume, and refine itself until it is one. Dark by itself is at peace, and it is the disparity of the first flame that stirred the dark to action at all.
Dark is the tumultuous ocean surface, the abyss the primordial sea, spiraling downward until it is all that remains. Massively condensed and nowhere to go at the base of the world will that stillness be found.
So basically, empty space needing to be filled. It's apart of the very fundamental laws of the world. When an opposite force comes, the other seeks to balance it out.
Dark calms those who have died, as stated in Dark Souls 1’s Tomb of The Giants and Dark Souls 2’s Undead Crypt. There are numerous other instances of Dark and Death being linked, from visual to explicit item descriptions.
All the four forces have some sort of push and pull with each other. The Undead Curse is caused and facilitated by Light and Dark, despite being literally a constant state of conflict between Life and Death.
Don't forget that, long after all true life is gone, the world is converging constantly, collapsing in on itself as it sinks into the presumed Abyss.
This comment is two years ago, but to add to this, ancient eastern thought didn’t have a concept of “nothingness” as we do today. Their concept of a state of “pre creation” was described as chaotic waters.
You see this thought in works such as the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament we Christian’s call it), and the very first page when describing the world before God ordered it was waters.
He talked about Buddhism in the video, but it’s pretty much all of the ancient near eastern thoughts. There’s a lot of overlap.
I’d say your comment is probably fairly accurate.
@@zeporion6091l😊
I think drakes in DS3 are former humans foremost (ascending to drake form through Dragon Peak), hence being still innately human at core, they were able to be infected by the pus of men when Lothric started to rot as Prince Lothric refused to set himself on fire.
This was my take as well. Its pretty much shown in game that many lothric knights sought the path of the dragon and ascended
I dont think that's supported by anything. They used to hunt dragons, and throughout that entire paradigm shift towards dragonriding there's utterly no reference to ascending into dragons. In fact, nobody is _ever_ seen successfully transforming into one.
This video is extremely well paced, and well written, it sounds as though you're speaking relaxed and casually, but not rambling.
Doing gymnastics on it
@@yikes6969W hating 😂
This concept for formlessness can explain why the fire keepers or the bonfire can level you up. They can turn the empty dark into form.
in ds1 you don't need firekeeper
@@franciscogarciadamiani979 yeah, that's why I said "the bonfire". Fire keepers are, after all, a manifestation of the bonfire.
You see the same thing in Bloodborne. At it's heart, the effect of the Old Blood, or rather the blood echoes in said blood, is to cause the rigidity of the physical world to turn fluid, which allows men to transform into beasts. It's also how the player levels up, though with the aid of the Doll and the will that animates it. Thus the player's transformation is controlled, measured and purposeful whereas the common folk of Yharnam fall victim to chaotic transformations without the will to direct them.
@@brentgarrison6245"and the most gruesome beasts were once clerics"
I always felt the fire, or light, from the bonfires catalyzed the Souls into action/changing form for our benefit...it couldn't have happened without fire/light.
I know Estus is bottled fire... everything powerful and magical in Dark Souls is because of the light. Which is why Frampt wants to shut that sht down.
I’m a little sad that Vendrick only got a small cameo near the end. I feel like he has some of the most insightful dialogue about the reality of mans choices and the fate of the Dark.
Lots of people don't consider DS2 canon since the original creator of DS1 (&3) didn't make it.
@@jacobhoover1654 Especially Frustrating since a lot of DS3's break the cycle elements stem from Aldia and DS2's ideas.
@@jacobhoover1654 even though multiple elements from DS2 are in DS3 ?
@@jacobhoover1654 funny, Miyazaki said basically that it is canon
“A world without life and death” sounds like the state of the world before the First Flame came to be. And the Fire Keeper said that one day flame with come again. I think that’s an okay ending because it means the natural cycle of the world is restored. It may suck, sure, but nature doesn’t care doesn’t she?
"Fear not, the dark, my friend. And let the feast begin"
Initially I had not idea what this meant, I always thought feast referred to him eating my character, or something like that.
However now I believe I understand what he means. I think what he's saying is not to fear the inevitable, as in the dark is inevitable, and keeping the flame lit is in itself proof we fear this inevitable darkness.
"Letting the feast begin" is the exact response to have if you're truly accepting the dark, you're not denying the reality of the gnawing of ones flesh, which could make anyone uncomfortable, but that's the fear that needs to be repelled. Therefore your open to your fears coming true, you face the possibility with strength, you welcome the feast to begin not because you necessarily want it, but because you know living in fear is worse.
This is exactly what I've pondered about considering the dark and humanity in Dark Souls and the connections to Demon's Souls, Bloodborne, Sekiro and Berserk as well. Ideas and stuff like ''will'', negative and positive appraisals of the Dark, Abyss and humans in Souls series and human darkness in Berserk. These things have been swirling in my mind pretty much ceaselessly.
This is all that I have thought about and *more*!
This video is exactly what I have wanted for months or even years.
The lore of these games and Berserk and such things are my most persistent and powerful obsession and I don't think this video has quenched that obsession still. That is to say, I'm even more captivated by it all.
Thank you LP for giving tangible and organized form to these thoughts.
Same. Been ruminating on this stuff for years, hah. Souls games really are metaphysical essays on life - expressed through art (in this case the video game medium).
The amusing thing is that Berserk treats it more accurately, and consequently the darkness of Berserk is the exact opposite of that in Dark Souls. Meanwhile people look at the artistic elements and think that Dark Souls is much like Berserk, but it's really the opposite concept with a skinsuit veneer of similarity.
Berserk is simultaneously a much more unpleasant world than Dark Souls, and yet one with hope. Bersek is a world with clear and present Evil, but no recognized Good, however it is possible and even necessary that there is Good somewhere in it.
Meanwhile Dark Souls is a world where Good and Evil aren't real things to begin with, just perceptual conceits. In Dark Souls, nihilism is the logical conclusion, and hence the ultimate philosophy.
If you want to better understand the concept of "will", look up "the world as will and representation" by arthur schopenhauer. Darksouls takes alot from it i feel. Though it may be because of its heavily eastern inspired concepts
Was the serpent wrong to introduce knowledge and wisdom to humanity...or was it best to remain in bliss and close to the light of the Creator ?
21:57 is powerfully poignant, and a great way to view the concept. I really appreciated the metaphor as well as the whole of the video.
im kinda late but at 30:57 this part is backed by the fact that when you die you leave a bloodstain containing your souls, also Father Ariandel reviving Friede with his blood/soul also backed by the fact that you can transpose an item related to Ariandel(the whip) from Friede's soul
I've seen this confusion about the "no" particle before, and I completely agree with you. "Shingeki no Kyojin" has been at first translated as "Attack on Titan". But a few seasons in, when we find out more about the Titans, we discovered that it was supposed to be "Titan of Attack/Attack Titan", which is Eren's Titan's name.
Lmaoo truu 👍
Yep, the "no" due to Japanese grammar, is more appropriately translated to English as something like ", the". Therefore Shingeki no Kyojin is more like "Attack, the Titan", but since English doesn't have the same grammar, is often erroneously translated as just "the", so people think it's "Attack the Titan", hence "Attack on Titan".
@@erndeche1475 Oooh, that's interesting :o it actually makes a lot of sense now
@@erndeche1475 isayama is the one who suggested the English name.
This was such a dense, detailed and ambitious topic to cover, on top of one that spans literally ALL of the games, and you absolutely killed it! Thought-provoking work as always, you've given me a ton to think about! Definitely need to rewatch this a couple of times to let it all sink in.
It is amazing that there is still so much lore left unexplored that you still have more than enough content to make more videos. I look forward to seeing what themes are carried over to Elden Ring, but until then, I'd love more exploration of the Dark, the Abyss and Blood. Please keep up the good work.
finally, a comprehensive look on why the transformation into dragons is such prevalent aspect in the series.
I think youre right about the abyss. Perhaps within the cycle, dark settles downward and pools in the abyss? That would explain why NPCs cant differentiate from them.
Also, the abyss it self isnt dark (devoid of light) in the sense that you can see everything clearly. Unlike Tomb of the Giants for example.
Blew my mind, the darkness has actual 'material' to it and the abyss is literally a void
This is... is so well made, going deep into the abyss of darkness to try to find similarities and define a nature to one of the, easy to misinterpret, core concepts of the series. Looking foward to more videos like tis in the future
Your best video yet in my view. Critically important material, for the Souls player who wonders.
Truly excellent work. As always, you paint a perfect picture of the ideas you are presenting!
What does "painting a picture of the ideas" mean?
@@YavNe Mostly the method that he uses to present. Multiple times he explains concepts with in game lore, explains clearly what may actually be intended, all without presuming knowledge on the audiences part and without making it sound like either talking down, or that he knows something you don't. Does that make sense?
One minor thing I noticed: the Impurity/Yodomi rune from Bloodborne physically almost looks like a bleeding human holding their arms up. Just a possible visual interpretation, but since you pointed out that the Deep is associated with bleed and bloodletting, it's another link between DS3 and Bloodborne.
This makes sense, given that the Hunter rune is based off of The Hanged Man.
A nearly hour long video on the deep, dark, and, the abyss, sign me up!
21:18
I think the meaning of this is much simpler. Where there is fire, shadows are chaotic like light is. In the abyss, there are no shadows because there is no light to cast any, it's all dark.
In the opening to dark souls 1, the first flame _created_ "light and dark", since those are disparities. Before flame, everything was "gray crags." Not dark.
Interestingly, though, after the first flame, life came "from the dark"
The age of dark is different from the age of ancient
Well said, I believe this is closer to the truth of this matter, and is often overlooked.
Dark and Light are Dualities that did not exist before Disparity (the First Flame).
Thanks so much for these videos, please dont stop making them. Its amazing this games are still being discussed years later.
I truly appreciate your critique through this lens which is what allows the community to better understand the soulsverse. it is truly amazing that such community can keep picking away at understanding such a mythology that was scarcely understood in it's adolescence.
My favourite item description:
Agape ring:
(Agape can mean Gaping or can refer to the Love of God)
"All things are rooted in souls, but what drives our thirst for them?
Abstinence from this elixir may be the truest homage to an enduring Self"
Remember, one not ken to fire cannot paint a world. One consumed by fire must not paint a world. ..but Vendrick was right.
There is another path. A cold, dark, and very gentle one..
I never really understood or got behind the theory that dragons are related to the Abyss and the Dark (DS2 scale description aside), but when you got to the part showing hollows transforming into pus of man and trees, suddenly the theory clicked for me.
You've clearly put a lot of work and thought into this, and it shows. This video is amazing LP
I think they are meant to represent equilibrium among the forces ruling the world of Dark souls. NThey are technically undead since they lack souls (death) but are not hollows and don't suffer the mental decay of both gods and humans (life). They are covered in indestructable scales of darkness (dark) but they breath pure fire, and some even blasts of energy (light). the dragons, as well as the age of ancients, were the Wuji between the Yin of the gods and the yang of humanity.
@@MitridatedCarbon reject dark and light, return to dragon
I always felt that the flame represented an awakening of a higher consciousness i.e. self awareness, self reflection, emotion, and sense of existence. The flame caused the void to express itself through cycles, if that makes sense. In the game everything is a mirrored reflection of blackness or unconsciousness. Sort of like "as above so below" in alchemy. Theres so much depth and story to these games that its impossible to think miyazaki consciously created and connected certain archetypes and themes simply because he is well read in ancient religions and mythologies. I think these things are embedded very deep in human subconscious and are expressed through creativity very often not by sole intention...which is why i think so many people connect deeply with soulsborne games
An amazing video. LP didn't start with lore about characters or item descriptions. This mad lad chose to tackle the biggest enigma in soulsborne lore. Impressive, and well done .
I've watched hours of Dark Souls content and this is the first video that actually makes the relationship between the Light, Dark and the Abyss clear.
One of the best Souls-lore videos. Got a much better understanding of the "Dark"
It's good to see the result of all those streams. Good work as usual.
37:37 Klimt was the former Archbishop of Carim - the Aldrich Faithful took over when Sulyvahn deposed Gwyndolin as Allfather of the Way of White. They chose to cover the statues rather than destroy them because Sulyvahn is also a Velka worshipper (Greatsword of Judgment, Darkmoon Ritual Spear).
Also, it's a reference to the veil of Isis or Maya.
I need more stuff like this, it really helps me to understand the deeper form of Miyazaki's way of storytelling, not through direct approach but through understanding what's presented to you and the symbolism behind it.
This is the kind of video I love to see. You mention a lot of ideas I think are really under-explored among the fans who theorize, particularly the theological and metaphysical concepts Miyazaki appears to be drawing from for these games. This is definitely one of the themes with which Miyazaki seems particularly fascinated. Hope to see more videos like this one.
38:46 this could be a reverence to the londor pilgrims, since the angel pupa in the ringed city dlc are bursting from the back of dead pilgrims.
Genuinely appreciate the videos. Its hard to find info on some of this stuff.
Love it. This is pretty dense, so I'll have to watch it a few times to completely understand it all! Thank you for this deep lore dive!
39:00
I believe there was some cut content involving the cyst-backed things. There was an enemy that had it's back break open and whatnot. Although I hope I'm not confusing games..
Your research is top notch homie, well presented as well
Watching EpicnameBro in 2010, theorizing lore:
Damn, this game is so rich, this explains everything
Vaatividya in 2012:
Wow, he uncovered everything, no way one can go deeper
Redgrave in 2016:
Ok, this is it, how could the game lore be examined any further? Brilliant!
Max Derrat/Illusory Wall and your Channel in 2021:
Ok, I got it, this game/series can be and will be most likely still be a subject of debate and theorycrafting in decades to come.
Excellent video! I'm still amazed at the richness and depth of FromSoft lore. Especially the parts about stagnation really resonated with me. Great stuff, thank you good sir!
We are probably wrong in trying to associate darkness to being corrupt
Maybe the dark was kinda chill, but because of gywn not letting the cycle continue, it caused the dark to become way more rampant and monstrous
Man idk how you only have 9.4k subs atm. Don't worry though your channel is amazing and the content is just fantastic! Keep up with it please you've definitely got a loyal and organically growing audience!
My headcanon has always been that the Painter in AoA is using the Blood of the Dark Soul to paint Yharnam.
Hence why the more pious, good natured people become some of the most horrific beasts.
I wouldnt say that anyone in bloodborne who is pious has simultaneously a good nature to be honest. Except (maybe?) Father Gascoigne, and he was quite far from being one of the most horrific beasts.
@@lommmmo Yeah, no. I'd say the priesthood becoming the most horrific beasts is both symbolically to show that the church is corrupt to the core and logically because they work with blood the most out of anyone in Yharnam.
While I like/love the idea of Bloodborne being the new Dark Soul created Painted World...I have to agree with the other comment the pious people of Yharnam are far from good natured they're extremely corrupt morally bankrupt beings and them turning into the most horrific beasts indicates their truly vile natures they kept "hidden".
Besides that I do have to question the nature of the Great Ones and the Dream and Nightmare Worlds...Why would the Painter create these things? Or were they accidentally created from primeval emotions of the Dark? Like if she was trying to create a better more comfortable world for Humans to live in...If this theory is true she failed quite horrifically. She arguably made something worse and inherently darker...But I guess that makes sense given the ingredients used.
@@flamesofchaos13the painter didn't make the world of BB worse or darker: the world of BB was made horrific by the people in it, Nightmares are made by people, as seen by Micolash. Also, none of the great ones even attack you until you attack them.
I think it’s more likely to Ashina
That was a great explanation, easy to follow for how complex an deep are those concepts. Amazing video :)
I don't agree with the distinction between Abyss and Dark
I think it's fair to say abyss can be created, since we know there is abyss in New Londo where there was not before, and there are abysses in multiple different geographic locations (New Londo, Oolacile, Carthus)
And on that assumption:
Abyss is born from excessive humanity - Manus, The Darkwraiths, Carthus.
I think Abyss must be dark in nature.
And consequently abyss cannot predate fire
The world before fire is Grey, not Black.
What exists before is not light or dark, so it cannot be dark by default.
I've heard many theories and explanations regarding the nature of the Dark and the Abyss. Looking forward to what I hope is a more well researched and explained discussion as I start this playlist
Seriously one of the best TH-camrs for lore.
This video is very well thought through with the wording, tightly paced and has fantastic interpretations on the research we have to do in the games.
I totally understood the dark soul blood by it’s English translation cause it just made sense that the blood would be “dry” but that being metaphorical. I interpreted the blood of the Pygmy Lords as containing the soul. Part may be that we bleed and when we die in game we turn into a soul-like dust so maybe that’s another interpretation.
This is phenomenal and I'm don't think Vaati's abyss videos could hold a light to this.
I love your content, the part on the Dark Soul blood was very insightful.
But full circle; is fearing the dark the closest way to have the least amount of corruption? Embracing the dark turns you into a monster. Is the best way to do neither? Neither fear nor embrace? But by default that would mean being relatively weak. To not be seeking power at all and being detached. And to face against it you still turn into it. And the same with the flame.
Good Job Son. You put a lot of effort in collecting the footage with all those streams.
So I have a theory as to why dark was always there even when fire wasn’t. Because darkness is always around in absence of light, and if fire is light; places without fire are dark…which would include places away from fire. The thing about dark is if it exists without light then it makes sense it would exist before fire because there was no light at all. The fire brought light with it.
The abyss, while full of scary things is still peaceful, nothing there tries to hurt each other vs when there is fire in which case people make war and strife with each other. The ‘disparity’ that fire brought, was not bringing darkness itself, but rather highlighting that there is something not like it. Fire only showed the difference between dark, which was the only thing before in addition to dragons and the like; most people chose this new concept(fire) and the things(light, heat, death, ect.) that come with it. Those that stayed with the dark upon siding with the furtive pygmy are merely embracing what they already had.
Really the embracing of dark vs light is like that “reject modernity, embrace tradition” at least for pygmies, humans and kin. They are rejecting the newness of the light and sticking with what they already had.
If you pick being a Cleric as a starter class, you have something on your back, just like with the pilgrims. And the description of the robes even depicts that same thing, to ensure that darkness would not spread.
I can't believe I never noticed the connection between the pus of man and the wyverns. I thought that the wyvers were infected with that parasite but it makes so much sense to think that the pus of man were the dragons in the first place. That's why the wyvers become empty shells when you attack their "heart" in Lothric Castle.
Man, your videos get better with each one I watch. A note about Aldritch's transformation which you didn't discuss, though: Hawkwood says of him that "He ate so many [men] that he bloated like a drowned pig, then softened into sludge, so they stuck him in the Cathedral of the Deep." It seems that yes, cannibalism in DS can transform someone in such a radical manner.
The entire concept of formlessness or dark being things is a relic of the inability of the human mind to understand the concept of "not".
Darkness is not a thing. It is the absence of a thing, namely light. Similarly, formlessness is not a thing, it is an absence of form.
While both darkness and formlessness can be useful, they are not things. They are what you have when you lack something.
To think of "not" as "is" is the fundamental madness, and the primal abstraction that undergirds the first sin of vainglory, which is to think of one's self as one is not.
My interpretation of the withered blood of the pygmies was that by spreading the power of the Dark Soul amongst them all, it had faded, aided by the seal of Fire, and thus, much like how we killed all the holders of the fragments of Gwyn's soul in DS1, Gael had to kill and absorb the fragments from all those it had spread to, corrupting and twisting him with desire like the Gaping Dragon or Covetous Demon. I love the video, especially when yoj being up the original Japanese and symbolism that gets lost in the Western translation, it really helps fill put the story
Surprisingly, I can relate that whole Fire Keeper and Irina thing a little bit to Kingdom Hearts.
Few people have gone this deep into the original Japanese. Incredible work, sir
Really great work LP as usual. It was cool seeing you cover a bit of Sekiro lore too.
This video has really helped cement my own head cannon on how fire, dark, light, life and death all connect. I've had many conversations with my friends about what exactly letting the flames fade would mean and I always thought that there could be no such thing as an age of dark because without the fire everything would return to the primordial age.
Can you do a video on the relationship between the fire, darkness and void found in men??
I was thinking about doing a video on the curse/Darksign in the future.
If the Usurpation of Fire is a world created by a Hollow, a third option to the binary cycle, I see parallels to the path of the dragon striving for a third option. So if the usurpation of fire is similar to the path of the dragon, does this imply that a world made by hollows could be a colorless landscape, full of stone dragons, and covered in fog? Are we forever stuck in the cycle because we can not see a bigger picture?
I also really love how all that stagnation is also a metaphor for Dark Souls as a game series and how it needs to end despite being so popular and people wanting more. Miyazaki is more comfortable making a fresh new world rather than draging on and on with the same one. Blood of the dark souls to paint a new world is also a metaphor for using all experience from Dark Souls series is that he will make a new game.
17:38 it was wise to put a disclaimer, otherwise comment section could have been more lively.
Awesome analysis!
I do wonder if it would be possible to look into the Chaos Flame and maybe the other two Lord Souls in a future video. Though the latter two don't really have much information on them and it would be a lot more about inference and observations. Like what is a Light Soul, we know what a Dark Soul is at the very least, but not much about what seems to be the standard and what is spread beyond just Man's souls.
My take was that the Abyss is a corruption of Dark, in the same way that Chaos is a corruption of Fire.
I agree to an extent. I believe the abyss is weaponized Dark. It is angry Dark
It's interesting how many misconceptions & misunderstandings there are of the Dark Soul's lore. Largely down to poor translation from Japanese to English. I really enjoy the content of the Dark Soul's creators. Who have an accurate understanding of Miyazaki's lore. Which is akin to solving a mystery, or putting together a vast puzzle. Great work!👍👊
Great job, seems decently researched. I liked it. Keep it up.
Liked commented and subscribed! This was amazing :)
This works fairly well with something i've been tinkering with based almost entirely on DS 1 and it's curious humanity drops from bosses.
(Quote from my reddit post)
"I do not believe the humanity sprites are the same thing as a fragment of the Dark soul but that they're a manifestation of the physical aspect of life. I hold it to be true that all living things come from the Dark as the They in the intro, including gods, witches and dragons.
That all life comes from the Dark can be strengthened by the bosses and enemies that drop humanity (DS1). Because all life comes from the Dark all life contains humanity and there is really only three of the bosses that challenge this model and that is Smough, Gwyn and Artorias, i'll deal with these at the end.
The fact that kalameet has humanity is in line with the dragons being infected with life at the dawn of the Age of Fire (Miazaki interview).
And the Gaping dragon, is likely female.
Every twin humanity we aquire in the game is found on female corpses, from female bosses or twin bosses like the gargoyles and this is in line with the Dark being tied to life as only women can bear new life.
This motif of women as lifebearers would also explain why maidens make good firekeepers as they are naturally bearers of new humanity they act as a vessel through the bonfires to amass and burn humanity for the Age of Fire.
It also explains Chaos as burning humanity strengthens Fire it makes sense fore Fire witches to employ it and perhaps as females be particulary adept at it.
I think the soul the Witch of Izalith used to create her new flame was her unborn child and it makes sense that these mixings might have created the flame of chaos. I also believe the bug in her womb is that same unborn child twisted by the event.
So then what are "regular" souls? I believe they are the other side of the coin in that where humanity is physical, instinctual existence they are more in line with demon's souls perception of them in that they are our mind, there described as clarity. They are what we use to effect and understand our surroundings and that is why you need intellect to cast soul sorcery or faith to cast miracles. And what are the lord souls? If Souls are the mind and our ability to inforce that will through magic, miracles and other ways then i believe they are a particularly fantastically powerful expressions of that. The Lords souls make it so they can inforce their will with unrivaled power.
And what of the Dark Soul? I believe it is like the others but that the pygmy and his clan turned their minds to the Dark like Gwyn to Light, the Witch to Fire/Chaos and Nito to Death. This can be strengthened by looking at the intro cinematic, the furtive pygmy's soul looks nothing like a humanity sprite. I believe it being called humanity is simply a political move to associate the frightening Dark with Gwyns political enemies, the humans.
I also believe the abyss to be a sort of primordial ooze from which life originated, this is supported by descriptions in DS3 of the ringed knight equipment where it being forged in the abyss betrays a smidgen of life.
Now for some problems with this theory and speculative solutions, namely the bosses with no humanity drop.
Gwyndolyn and Ornstein are illusions and that would be a good reason for them to not drop souls. As for Smough, Gwyn and Artorias reaching a conclusive reason is harder. Gwyn and artorias seem to be of the god clan and rhe gods are described in DS3 as beings of fire and this might be a clue. Nito and Izalith still drop humanity maybe because chaos needs humanity to function and death can only be relevant in relation to life. Gwyns clan may have repressed the Dark within them, to become as close to pure Fire/Light/Power as possible. They may have surpressed it to the point where one does not earn a full humanity sprite from them upon defeat.
Finally I feel alot of people assume we are linking the flames at the end by feeding it our powerful soul but this being the whole truth does not compute for me. If we look at the system set up in lordran, whats actually feeding the flames is humanity through a network of bonfires all connected to the first flame so it stands to reason that humanity is the fuel. And why would our powerful Lord Souls be left at the door of the Kiln?
The undead seem to be a means of mass producing humanity for the fire but then what makes linking the first flame essential?
What does inheriting the flame mean?"
Dude this video was fucking awesome. I loved how you incorporated Sekiro as that is my favorite of the FS games but had no idea of just how close they keep together the themes. This gave me a excellent understanding of the lore and tbh you are a very serious competitor to Vaati, his stories are very tragic but well told but when it comes to analysis and best case scenarios to understanding the world your on his heels my friend I’ve never truly understood Gaels item in question The Dark Soul but my God you’ve given the best explanation yet, also placing a distinction between the dark, abyss, and deep was very well done and those Locusts were spitting facts I actually really enjoy them as they are trying to tell you that the dark is not to be feared, that over the series it has been dragged and berated as this unholy abomination of a place but that is a lie of the gods and Aldia & Kaathe also try and warn you, even the Pygmy at the beginning of the dlc will mock you if you lie to him and tell him your serve the gods as he knows that they are long dead and any person serving them would never visit such a place for their fear prevents them so. So much good here in this video to much talk about as my fingers are burning but anyway I fucking loved it man keep it up bro.
What confused me is everyone talks about the shell in there backs because the pus of man but what about in the ringed city where there are them things coming out of the pilgrims backs that control the angles
Godlike work linking all these concepts together and explaining them in a non-convoluted way! Can't wait for Vaati to "borrow" this video for his channel.
Excellent video Protag even I having disagreements with some topics you made great observations on the subject(one of the best here on youtube) . One more thing sorry for the poor quality of the footage I wish I could send some better lol
A bit of a correction on 17:40 : Kalameet is not an Everlasting Dragon. While the games never really go out of their way to differentiate the different kinds of dragons, pay attention to how the Obsidian Greatsword description calls him an "Ancient Dragon" and not an Everlasting Dragon. If we go by the Dark Souls intro, utilizing lightning is essential for hurting, let alone kill Everlasting Dragons, a fact that is reinforced by the description of the Lightning Stake miracle in Dark Souls 3. Given that Kalameet, Sinh and Midir can be hurt and killed without ever using lightning, it stands to reason that these three (as well as the other dragons encountered such as the wyverns) are not Everlasting Dragons from the Age of Ancients, but instead descendents of the Everlasting Dragons. Since the Gaping Dragon was corrupted by life and used to be an Everlasting Dragon before that, perhaps the same corruption caused the other Everlasting Dragons to desire to procreate in order to keep their kind from going extinct?
The JP for the Obsidian is stronger and calls him an everlasting dragon:
朽ちぬ古竜の最後の生き残り
"The last surviving ancient everlasting dragon"
30:30 You raise a good point.
In DS2, the Old Sun Ring refers to an Old Sun, not an Old Ring - it's a reference to the occultism of Rudolf Steiner.
What if abyss was more linked to creatures ?
Most of dark souls creatures seem to be born with the first flame. You could say, cast by a mix of shadow (dark) and light (flame).
Those beings thus contain a part of dark and flame within themselves. But some beings try to pursue one specific path. In our case, path of the dark, then slowly killing their fire part until they obliterate it. Such beings become "unatural" and thus fall to the abyss.
This seems consistant with the transformation of Magnus. From this moment, they become "flame devourers" (that would be why abyss weapons are efficient against gods) with such an aura flowing from their body. The aura also contaminates nearby beings as without their flame part, they become part of the abyss.
Great video LP!
I am amazed! A Dark Souls Video that not ignores DS2 completely. DS2 wasn't that bad of a game and was honestly a change of pace.
I didn’t at all gather from the 2 active wyverns in lothric castle that they came from the pus of man. Lothric kept tame wyverns. The pus is controlling them or binding them somehow.
I’m interested, why do you assume the wyverns come from the pus directly, when the simple fact is that lothric kept wyverns around like Drangleic
That's a good question, and it requires a bit of a nuanced answer, so I apologize if my answer falls short in some regard. TH-cam isn't the best place to have a super-detailed conversation.
As for the Pus of Men, when you destroy them in Lothric, the Wyverns themselves disappear. I think it's an interesting idea they have a parasitic relationship to the wyverns. I like it, and it's not one I've heard before.
Their appearances suggest a link to Wyverns, Dragons, or Drakes because even in the ones prowling the High Wall or the Consumed King's Garden, they have tiny spots which resemble the scales of dragons. I think this is relevant when we consider how part of Seath's research into immortality, and the Everlasting Dragons' scales of immortality coincided with his experiments on humans. Granted, this doesn't mean they're definitively connected, but between these examples and the followers of the Path of the Dragon being able to turn into dragons, there are some concrete connections worth considering.
(before I even watch the video)
I always think of DS1 "metaphors" of "Dark" and "Flame"/"Fire" as the "corruption" of desires and ambitions. I call it "corruption" because that's how Aldia frames it.
Humanity is nothing with them, but they can live on with the bare minimum, or with no will at all. But with the "corruption" of desires and ambitions (can also be called "wants"), humanity can create great things, but desires do corrupt.
Humanity are lured toward "Dark" because it's where they're from. Just like how Vendrick feels "tranquil" near Nashandra. But "Dark", as pointed out by many Dark Spells in DS1, can also damage "hollows" (aka human), perhaps because the human that you fight do have some will, some "souls" left in them. And that "souls" give them will, and also a disadvantage, making human vulnerable to their own beginning - the "Dark".
But the "Flames" never dies. "Flames" and "Dark" are just parts of a cycle, in Dark Souls.
The "Dark" also has wild mutagenic properties.
Very well done. Thanks man
Is it possible to take the blood of the dark soul to the kiln of the first flame?? If so, does it do anything or change anything, by having or bringing the dark soul to the first flame?
From what I understand, the dark soul is the only lord soul which has never truly been returned to the first flame.
Another excellent video.
And it seems like linking the fire has completely stopped working in 3 which could be Miyazaki saying things have been dragged on as much as possible, not only in-universe but as far as the series goes as well. Which would make Lord of Hollows the ending for those who don't want to let go even if things can't move on anymore, also both in-universe and as far as the series goes because there won't be a new entry
I think the Abyss and the Dark are the same thing. However, I think the Dark (as the hungry, obsessive thing that we know it to be - what we encounter in the games) appears to be a transformation of the Abyss. I think the Dark, as a corrosive phenomenon, is what happens when the Abyss encounters a force of nature - like the first flame. So, symbolically, I think the Dark is supposed to be what happens when Fire reveals contrasts between light and dark. But I think this symbolism is intrinsically tied to the themes of suppression in the game. Which is: suffering happens when the nature of the world is thrown out of balance - when one side overpowers the other.
This is like low key enb high tier quality shit.
Ggs you might be the best of the modern era of lore vids.
Again excellent video!
Another superb video!
I wasn't too impressed with some of your other content, but I might check some more of it out after this, very good video. You don't super push any far-fetched contrived interpretations like a lot of other souls lore youtubers, you present the text and make reasonable inferences from it (even if I disagree with some of them), which is neat.
I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the Undead Curse and the Darksign, because I think there is a lot of misinterpretation around the cause and nature of it.
Interesting how many different interpretations there are. Fromsoft truly created something wonderful
This is perhaps the first video game related video I’ve seen that actually understands Buddhist concepts like sunyata. 😄
Thanks so much, this video is so good.
Simply beautiful
This is really good coverage context of facts especially in lore can easily be lost in translation
The white faced locust in the ringed city state that the insects of the deep aren't in the dark or the abyss