Sigma FP VS Panasonic S1H - ULTIMATE CAMERA COMPARISON
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มิ.ย. 2024
- Time for 2 more amazing cameras to go head to head - the Sigma FP and Panasonic S1H! Can the stripped-down Sigma compete against the all-encompassing Panasonic? Watch to find out!
Sigma FP
B&H: bhpho.to/2tozk4O
Amazon: amzn.to/37aOnxP
Panasonic S1H
B&H: bhpho.to/2CDCMcV
Amazon: amzn.to/2FThMQU
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GEAR USED:
Sigma FP
B&H: bhpho.to/2tozk4O
Amazon: amzn.to/37aOnxP
Panasonic S1H
B&H: bhpho.to/2CDCMcV
Amazon: amzn.to/2FThMQU
Canon C200
B&H: bhpho.to/2FJaH8d
Amazon: amzn.to/34aYAbJ
Canon 24-70 2.8
B&H: bhpho.to/2OCKjgl
Amazon: amzn.to/2O871PH
Sony A7 RIII
B&H: bhpho.to/2DZYHut
Amazon: amzn.to/2QFH0Zu
Canon EOS R
B&H: bhpho.to/2roExVE
Amazon: amzn.to/2QEnk8s
Tamron 24-70mm 2.8 G2
B&H: bhpho.to/2J2wp4j
Amazon: amzn.to/2KCVw0v
Tamron 28-75 2.8
B&H: bhpho.to/2FsWNno
Amazon: amzn.to/2KJ3rcD
Tamron 17-28 2.8
B&H: bhpho.to/2ItePur
Amazon: amzn.to/37qnWVh
KLM audio module
B&H: bhpho.to/2qqbyUG
Vanguard VEO 2 Pro 263CPV
B&H: bhpho.to/3495qhT
Amazon: amzn.to/2KGGiYr
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Jay P. Morgan has been working as a Commercial Photographer and Film Director in the Los Angeles area for more than 20 years developing an impressive list of clients from Paramount to McDonald's. Jay P.'s experience with elaborate set design and extensive lighting are key to the success of his illustrative work.
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#panasonics1h #sigmafp #lenscomparison
Well, you should also consider that the sigma costs less than half of the S1H...
Nobody seemed to care, but the price alone makes all of my other doubts disappear.
It's true, the S1H is not a budget-friendly option. If you can do without the functionality of the S1H, then the Sigma is a good option. But I will also say that you will probably spend a good amount of money rigging the Sigma to shoot. You'll need a cage, lots of batteries, some SSD's, large hard drives to store your footage, and a monitor or EVF. I would count the cost of a fully-functional FP at $2500-$3000. But yes, still cheaper than the $6000 kit I put together for my S1H!
@@kennethcmerrill agreed
Carlo Carnevali you can also get the S1 which can do 10bit and full v-log as well. For most people will do just as well as S1H
Yes let's rig up the sigma with gimbal and black magic recorder to record in prores raw and black magic raw.. so it cost the same as the S1H and then compare ..there is something way wrong with the overexposure/underexposure test..must in real life I like both.but really prefer colours from sigma...The other thing is the S1H was conceived to be the most complete stills / video camera Panasonic could make..This was for operators to have to carry less gear..Mission accomplished..But the sigma was built to be built up to be what you want..to accomplish but give you the best capabilities in a stripped down hot rod that that could...mission accomplished...It takes Forrest Gump and Gumby to compare them as equals simply because they both have FF sensors...
I think the fp will only get better and more stable with future firmware. I’m amazed that it nearly held its own with a Netflix approved camera. It certainly had better colour. This camera shouldn’t be dismissed so quickly.
Colin Gregg the color is beautiful, and I’m curious to see what firmware updates bring.
I preferred the color of the s1h
These guys are amateurs when it comes to DNG raw files…
@@TrapPhoneLoveMelodiesss I think these guys were doing their analysis in the context of videography, not cinematography. The SIGMA fp is designed for cinema.
Hi TSL fam! Very excited to bring you this camera comparison with 2 stunning cameras. Let us know which you prefer and any thoughts you have!
The dynamic range test is a little unfair, as the sigma’s raw bakes in a Rec 709 color space, which can be changed in software to recover highlights. If I were to get these same shots, and apply highlight recovery, the sigma FP would still retain way more highlight detail. It has 12.5 stops of dynamic range
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
you guys always do fun videos and seem like you're having fun. thanks!
I wish everyone did camera comparisons like this.
Aw, well I'm glad you appreciate our approach/method! Let me know if you have any requests for future comparisons.
@@TheSlantedLens You're welcome! S1/H vs Sony A7III would be awesome as no one has done that comparison yet. Or even better S1/H vs A7III vs Eos R.
Thank you! We're trying to provide some concrete value--it's tricky, but I'm glad it's working.
@@kennethcmerrill You're welcome!
Thanks.Great work guys!!!
Thanks!
Дмитрий Субботкин thanks so much! Keep on clickin.
Thanks. Excellent video! I would like to see Panasonic S1H VS Canon 1Dx mark III
We have been working on getting that camera.
thank you ! I was really looking forward to be the true replacement of my old BMPCC and the colors looks great, but from your test I get that I should probably wait for the mark 2, right ? (or to see what a potential alpha 7 S IV would offer... ? :D )
I think our usual recommendation of trying the camera out for yourself still stands here. The color is really great, and it's possible (especially if you've been shooting on the OG BMPCC) that some of the things that bothered us may not be as much of an issue for you. My biggest reservation about the camera is the occasional flickering, which I am being told has been fixed with a firmware update (I would definitely test that out too, if I had a chance).
Just to reiterate, I think for my own style of shooting and for many other people the S1H is a much friendlier camera to use, and it has an edge in a lot of departments, but it's really about how and what you shoot. It will be interesting to see what the A7sIII brings, but again that's a very different beast from the Sigma, and much more like the S1H.
Thanks! Speaking of flickering- whats is the firmware version of Sigma FP you used?
To be honest, we weren't aware that Sigma had issued any new firmware since release. I suspect we were on 1.0 firmware, and someone else has just told me that the flicker issue was fixed in a recent update. It would be worth testing if we ever get our hands on one again.
Would love for you to do a re-test of this! Recent firmware updates, along with price decreases, have made this camera a incredible value! Even for the price, having to use a S1H to compare the image quality is a badge worthy accomplishment!
Great idea. Thanks for watching!
Long-time DSLR-er...first time cine-er. (Okay, I know that’s incorrect English.)
And I recently bought two fp rigs for my son and me, to learn together.
Not only are the 4k 12bit raw clips stunning, the low light sequences are awe inspiring. More important, Sigma simply hit a nerve...a large market...of still shooters who want to get into serious cine, but still don’t really know what we’re doing. We’re certainly not pixel inspectors, to put it bluntly. Everything about the fp just seems more idiot-friendly to us.
Add the fact that we can use all of our old glass via an inexpensive adaptor, and we’re on this camera like white on rice at its great price point.
Nothing succeeds like success, and I think Sigma’s sales figures are going to show this.
Congrats for you! I hope they serve you well!
Thanks Shasta.
Thank you. Was looking for a review like yours. Have you tried highlight recovery in davinci. I heard you can save a lot of blown highlights on the sigma that way
Good luck with recovering your images!
So let me see if I heard you correctly:
1- It shots RAW (Cinema DNG)
2- Extremely light weight
3- L-Mount
4- Extremely Sharp focus
5- Accurate Colour & Skin Tones
6- ISO starts 6 Stops lower than S1H
7- Stripped down to bare basics and ready to be modded however I liked
8- Half the price...Even of that Sony mirrorless
9- Again for those that don't know what this means... This little thing Shots RAW.
Hhmm, Sorry but what was the down side here again...!!!??
Actually you *Have to mod it, just like a BMPCC. The S1H is a proper hybrid, you can get a 1dx miii too if you want the best Hybrid and money is no issue. With the 1Dx you'll get access to much cheaper EF glass too.. so.
@@DeepteshLovesTECH Barebones camera? Nah you just need to get used to it.
But you can work this bare bones.
The modding is the best part.
Yah, this sounds like the ultimate narrative cinema camera. WOW, I'm blown away at the skin tones and color integrity throughout all ISO ranges. And I'm commenting in 2022, they have since ultra improved this camera via firmware!
@@raredreamfootage Are you referring to the Sigma fp? What has changed since the firmware updates were delivered? I think the flicker is their LED lighting's PWM, not the camera itself.
NICE VIDEO!!
Im waiting for see a comparision video Sigma FP vs BMPCC6K or 4K.
Cheers.
We will add that to our list. Thanks for watching!
What about a Video comparison between the S1H, RED & ARRI :)
That would be a fun one. For what it's worth, I think Cinema 5D tested the S1H and found it to have the highest DR they've ever tested besides the Alexa. So it's definitely up there in that aspect at least!
Richard James Milne great idea Richard!!
Absolutely agree! Would love to see S1H vs. Alexa Mini
nice test video
Thanks! And thank you for watching!
For Sigma FP is shoot with RAW ? they are different animal when RAW videos on SIGMA. 10 bit codec Video VS 12 bit RAW Video. And did you ever tested the Magic Lantern RAW video on Canon ? But for color this S1H is amazing.
Is it possible you rated the FP for the wrong base ISO? I mean this over exposure behavor is really odd.
After seeing our own results, there was some debate between Jay P and I about this. It is certain that both cameras were exposed properly for their respective ISO's, using a light meter. But there is something to be said about rating a camera at a higher ISO and the way that affects overexposure or the highlight areas of an image. I wondered, theoretically, if we had rated the Sigma at 640 or 800 ISO if it would have been able to retain more highlight detail because the sensor would have been receiving less light overall. Unfortunately by the time we had processed all the footage, the cameras were out of our hands; so we couldn't test that theory. But I actually have reason to believe it wouldn't have made a difference:
The Sigma FP produces a DNG sequence for its video files. That is, every frame is an individual raw DNG file. Nikon also uses the DNG raw format. I have actually tested the above theory out before with Nikon. Nikon cameras usually blow the highlights very quickly, and I thought, "If I adjust my ISO on the Nikon to 400 or 800 ISO when I shoot, will I be able to retain better highlight detail or expose hotter and bring down the highlights in post." I tested it, and I found that it doesn't make a difference. The highlights exposed at 100 ISO and 400 ISO both blow out the same, and there's no more flexibility for overexposure at different ISO's.
I think the reason for this is because the ISO setting on these cameras causes a permanent analogue gain to be applied to the image before it is recorded digitally. I could be wrong about the technicalities, but basically boosting your ISO is irreversible in post.
That's not true of all cameras. Arri and Red cameras have raw formats that preserve the exposure data of the image independent of the ISO (just like most cameras preserve the color data of the image independent of the WB setting on the camera). But my guess is that the Sigma DNG's are not that way. I would love to see someone test it and give us the final word.
Kenneth Merrill I‘m no expert in any ways (no colorist) but when shooting with the Alexa I found it true what ARRI representatives say about the way the camera distributes stops over and under when rated for different ISOs. For example rating it at base 800 will give you -7/+7 while rating it for 1250 will give -6/+8 (or something like that). So knowing the (true) native ISO and rating it correctly will make a difference. I just thought something like this might be the problem with your FP results.
One more question: how did you perform the exposure shift? ISO, shutter, aperture or ND?
The camera doesn't have a log curve, it's linear raw so you see the highlights clipping sooner. At the same time it's much better in underexposure test because it's 12bit raw, so it has a lot more information in the shadows.
*I wonder how much easier the Sigma FP would be to use, if you plugged in an external Zacuto OLED viewfinder via the micro HDMI side output ? Also, Adding an Atamos Ninja 5" record monitor would also effectively help, along with a studio riged out cage. The Sigma FP is designed to scale to various types of cinema production depending on what accessories you add to it.*
Mark Job yeah, rigging it is a necessity for real world use
I feel like Panasonic might be misreporting the true ISO number here, and the S1H is actually underexposing by 4 stops to gain the extra highlight detail, and then raising the exposure in processing. This would explain why it does so well in the overexposure test, and so poorly in the underexposed test. Similarly, maybe it turns this off when you switch over to the 4000 ISO mode for better low light performance. I don't have any evidence for this - I'm just assuming based on these results.
If true, you could technically put an ND16 on the Sigma FP, and then raise the exposure in post with a little bit of noise reduction added to get similar results to the S1H at ISO 640. Though the results wouldn't be exactly the same, because it's a 12bit raw file and not the full signal off the sensor.
That is a plausible theory. Go ahead and test it and let us know what you learn.
Hi I love your works..... Please would you do a comparison with black model. Dark skin
Willie Salati hi Willie! Glad you appreciate the videos. Take a look through our videos. We have comparisons with many different looks and skin tones. :)
Did you use the second dual native iso circuit on the S1H in the ISO test?
Yes
Kenneth Merrill thanks. Nice video, both are very impressive
please specify what codecs and bitrate and profiles are you shooting. either wise you compare apples with eggs. it's not film you know! it's digital video...
Great suggestion. Thanks for watching!
Nice video again, JP team! Considering how underexposure is handled, it seems to me, somebody is lying about ISO, native ISO, potentially dynamic range ...
Test no 1; is there an nd filter on S1H?
Yes. The native ISO on the S1H is 640 so we added an ND.9 to the lens to keep the aperture at an optimal setting (5.6, I think).
I also own FP and played around with s1h. You have pointed out the most important facts I would like to talk about. Super review. Hope sigma figure out the solution for black level flickering problem!
Fixed in firmware 2.0.
Thanks for sharing that and thanks for watching!
@@TheSlantedLens firmware 3.0 is out with another coming soon. The fp L just got false colour and I hope the fp gets that too.
Great video. For me Sigma just a bit better than Panasonic I like the color . the color of the girl 👧 t shirt 👕 not same in Panasonic look more red or bright red
Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts! Yea the color was really impressive.
I'd really like to see a stills comparison anyway... and mix and match lenses from the L... mount.... Alliance
Great idea. I have added that to our list.
Both Cameras are so good . I wish I could afford both. I just started filming with Canon cameras. Thanks for the video.
Totally agree! Both amazing cameras.
Oh that's awesome. What Canon cameras are you using? Would love to know what kind of stuff you're filming too and if you have any questions or requests for future videos that could help you learn more. :)
Better tools definitely help, but after 6 years in the industry it's become very apparent to me that the skill of the person behind the camera is 90% of the equation. Don't get too down because you feel like your tools are inadequate. At the end of the day, it matter less than most people think.
Thanks for the video but this was a very flawed test. It would be nice to see you try again with both camera firmware up to date.
Noted. Have a great week!
9:42 Even at 4K, you can clearly see the damage caused by TH-cam's aggressive video compression. The banding in the darks can't be the Sigma's fault; it's way too pronounced. Low-light tests like these tend to be iffy on TH-cam because of the compression. It's unfortunate.
Yeah, not much that can be done about it since the load time and storage of larger files would not work well.
It's so funny to have two names that are also brands: "J. P. Morgan" and "Shasta." It's not a productive comment, I know, I was just tickled by the introduction. Thanks for this!
Hadn't thought about that. That is funny!
The S1H is the first mirrorless camera to be approved by Netflix for content creation.
I think it shows in every aspect of the camera. The Sigma is an amazing thought experiment in design.
The Panasonic is built the ground up to give you the best possible image right out of the box. And you get access to their best color science which I find to be stunning and very filmic.
For practical performance these cameras aren't close. The S1H is an incredible tool and easily an A camera for any format imo.
👍🏽
Uhhh, Netflix also thinks the Alexa Mini is not worthy of their image quality standard!
The Sigma isn't nearly as bad as it seems. I think the flicker is being caused by how their LED lighting does PWM plus the Sigma is putting out raw data, not processed data. Panasonic's processing can remove the flicker.
Thx
You got it! :)
I don't know... How can we compare when Sigma FP lens doesn't have a filter & Panasonic S1H lens has one. ? . Correct me if I was wrong.
We added an ND.9 filter to the Panasonic for some of the outdoor shots because its base ISO is 640 in V-Log, and you can't shoot outside at 640 ISO without an ND filter. If you're looking very closely at sharpness and detail, then sure, there might be a difference, but you wouldn't be able to tell on TH-cam at 1080p. There may also be a slight difference in color because of the filter, but it was a B&W filter, and in my experience the color shift is minimal on those.
@@kennethcmerrill Thank you :)
@@kennethcmerrill The problem is using V-Log in the first place. Don't do that. The red in the shirt shows the problem with log footage in general: the midtone detail is totally hosed. The Sigma has moire patterns because it's capturing so much detail that the Panasonic is losing. Shoot in Neutral with noise reduction all the way down.
4:57 Night and Day! Wow that really surprised me how bad the overexposure got the Sigma.
Thanks for watching and keep on clickin!
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ yes please
😀 glad you enjoyed it!
Your model looks like Sadie Robinson from duck dynasty.
6:05
Same with Magic Lantern
No ETTR myths working
But expose with false colors does
Thanks for sharing that. Good to know.
How is it possible that s1h is getting the red right ,
Is faded in all the other videos I have seen , it looks like canon red
Crazy right. It is interesting. I should look into that.
Definitely the fp wins on image quality but it lacks of image stabilization which is hard to use without a gimbal. Also you have to consider the rolling shutter and storage issues.
Great points. Thanks for your comment!
Wow the Sigma's colors reminds me of Canon. Very pleasing reds and skin tones.
Yeah, nice color science! Thanks for your comment!
The same top: 9:00 pinkish red, 9:20 Ferrari red, 9:40 Alfa Romeo red. This to illustrate that "raw" in a file or footage is fake, an artifact of extrapolating colors from monochrome photovoltaic cell readouts by interpolation and a bit of convolution, maybe. This variability is rather surprising to. As I always avoid auto white balance and auto exposure as much as possible, this might explain my personal experience. Still, imagine you have to correct this between takes or potentially try to fix this in a long shot following a subject between different lighting situations.
The Sigma is very impressive for the size and price.
Very true. Thanks for your comment!
Why did you choose to not tell us what setting you are at, when the whole allure of the S1H is it's enormous variety of recording formats?
Gabriel Baron , we were shooting in full frame mode, recording in 4K Prores 422HQ on an Atomos recorded. You can’t simultaneously record internally and externally on the S1H so we didn’t.
This is a weird comparison video. Idk how I feel about this one. But all in all the S1H is Netflix approved and for that alone is worth the price if you have the connections to get into the Netflix ecosystem. But the price of the fp is a winner on just the $$$$.
Good points. Thanks for your comment!
I own both cams. I prefer FP’s color science
Thanks for sharing your preference!
9:20 Yeah, i like the taste of fresh boiled water! :-)
LOL. You are the first person to mention that. Good eyes!
Please shoot things like this in Neutral, not V-Log. Log damages the midtones.
That is great insight. Thank you!
Please tell me about v-log damaging mid tones
Video comparison between the S1H and canon 5D mark iv
Great idea! Thanks so much for watching and commenting.
Moire should be better in s35 mode.
That's a great point. Thanks for sharing!
The tone of Skin is more natural in Sigma
It's interesting how they all differ in color science.
The Sony is a great concept at a fantastic price, but there are far too many problems to consider buying it.
No headphone output is laughable, and 1 card slot??? It also needs more recording options, 4k 10bit 4:2:2 with a high data rate like 200+ Mbps would be good.
Good points. Thanks for sharing.
Sony? You mean Sigma?
Watching the girl I've forgot about the cameras
LOL. I guess you will just have to watch it again.
@@TheSlantedLens I really like both the cameras, but with the daylight I prefere the skin tones of sigma fp.
Wow sigma is trying to prove its worthyness in the camera.
Shasta is lovely.
they both loo le videotape
Thanks for watching and keep on clickin!
Why the girl is trying to mimic a little puppy all the time?
His name is JP Morgan
Yep, there are advantages and disadvantages!
4k... Yes! Lazy
Thanks for watching and Keep on clickin!
The flickering on the sigma makes it no longer an interest of mine. No client of mine would be ok with that in their video.
Yeah it really becomes unusable because of that. I wonder if they can issue a firmware update to address the problem.
@@kennethcmerrill （Ver.1.01）The firmware will correct the phenomenon whereby shooting in the Cinema DNG format, depending on the ISO sensitivity the level of the dark area changes for each frame.
Yeah this was fixed in 1.01 firmware released in November but has to be updated on new cameras... I wonder if this unit hadn’t been updated. See here: www.sigma-global.com/en/download/cameras/firmware/#fp
Fixed in firmware 2.0.
The flickering may be the LED light PWM, not the camera itself, and it apparently has been fixed in firmware anyway.
Honestly on a phone it doesn't show up at all.
So you're saying you can't see the difference?
@@TheSlantedLens the only difference I can notice on my phone screen is color. Grain and noise It doesn't show up. Like you said, a professional will chose the tool for the job. For the rest of us sharing stuff on TH-cam I think it comes down to what is the most complete feature set in the smallest package, image quality past 1080p on a phone is mostly acedemic.
Good review format though, I'll have to watch it on a better screen when I get a chance.
good job selecting hot girls to hold the viewer's attention ;)
Such a guy. Keep on clickin!
The meat is god deamn good. Go ahead changing the scene...
This Dynamic range is impossible , FP has more Dynamic range , but of coruse you need to shoot RAW , you must have done something wrong , even my point and shoot that is 10 years old will recover better .
There is the test, we are pretty confident it was done correctly. Thanks for watching!
@@TheSlantedLens Its a sony sensor , both are , just depends on the setup , those cameras have lot of settings and who knows what went wrong .
But as i said , my Canon SX130 has better highlight recovery , so i doubt in the results , because it seams impossible .I also know that FP has 2 modes , RAW and Compressed RAW , maybe you tested this Compressed version .
One that is compressed doesnt have Dynamic range , but has contrast ,and looks like you use that mode , the other mode Flat mode that needs to be graded , is lot bigger files and lot better recovery .
I have the sigma and it clips very fast
Girl is a cutey.
Hope you learned some good stuff!
"Boy, the color looks beautiful in there." He doth not know what he says...
Both cameras have their plusses. They are very different and definitely an individual choice.
“It doesn’t have mic output so it’s useless” .
Heard about external recorders? Heard about SmallRigs grip/cage? Heard about the coming update as well the first upgrade that fixed the flickering?
Sigma will release log profile, you think it will affect the over exposing?
Why not use the same lens? They have the same mount...
Not the first useless review from you guys, kidding it was interesting but it had many faults. Get Small rigs grip/cage and be happy you actually can get a grip that you want.
Try to change grip on S1.
The sigma is terrible at being overexposed!
Yep. Thanks for you comment and thanks for watching.
The over-under-expose part is seriously misleading. The author doesn't even understand how log and Raw/non-log work differently. You should learn more before talking.
Enlighten me? I think we have a pretty good idea.
@@TheSlantedLens you can't compare log/non-log over-expose directly. All digital sensors can't recover highlight details in a similar way. Log is just an alternative way to treat the highlight (similar to auto-expose-to-right). It's handy but misleading in this test.
No reason to be rude about it, they are just doing their best to inform the user based on the knowledge they have and the tests they are doing.
Gentlemen. Please. Don’t present yourselves as video experts. You SKIPPED the S1H at 4000 ISO. It is by nature a DUAL-ISO sensor! WAY less noise at 4000 than 3200. Tell me you didn’t already know that.
I own the S1H. In my practical experience the difference in noise between 3200 and 4000 ISO is pretty negligible, and frankly we're just too pressed for time to test every ISO increment. So we usually just stick to full stop increments. I think if you're wondering which camera is most noisy, our test still does the job. I also think the S1H performs incredibly up to 6400 ISO so I'm not sure why shooting at 4000 specifically would add to the overall message.
Not everyone will like the way we do things, which is totally fine by me. I call on people with disagreements to do the hard work and post their own tests.
@@kennethcmerrill Gotta own the camera to do the tests. I'd love it if you loaned me the cameras to do such tests ;)
I can afford the cameras... it's Shasta whom I can't afford. She is something special.
creepy
To complain about the Sigma from an ergonomics perspective shows you are NOT qualified cinematographers. It’s a crash cam, POV cam, jib cam... it’s a photo cam to literally one credible youtuber. To everyone else, it’s a brain to attach lenses and riggings to. Please stick to photography.
lol
Nice try Sigma... now get back to the drawing board.
Haha!
Well, the sigma has musch better color and color depth to my eyes.
Just look at the first scene where her top looks almost orange in the S1H, whilst the Sigma shows all the creases and the shadows...
Also don't forget that the Sigma costs less than half of the Panasonic.
Yeah indeed,every single of their camera are having too much flaw to tolerate