Lessons Learned from the BMW i3 - Autoline After Hours 295
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ย. 2024
- UP FOR DISCUSSION:
- Silverado/Sierra: New faces for ’16. How clever is this?
- Sergio Shows His Elbows: The start of UAW negotiations
- Magna Gets Getrag: “Every vehicle has and will have a transmission in the foreseeable future”
SPECIAL GUEST: John Kelly, BMW Product Manager
- Join us as we take a deep dive into the BMW i3.
All that and much more with John McElroy, Autoline.tv; Gary Vasilash, Automotive Design & Production; Gary Witzenburg, Freelance Auto Writer.
Get more video everyday at autoline.tv
I no longer have a car or want to have one. Not interested at all. But I find myself watching Autoline after hours so often because the great discussions about engineering! There are not many places where one can listen to long and meaningful discussions about engineering. So please keep doing it!
Just started driving an i3 after 3 yrs in a Volt and absolutely love the one pedal driving. I always used L range in the Volt for max regen and a certain range of braking but the i3 takes one step further with the coast element plus the ability to bring it to a complete stop with just the accelerator. Can't imagine why anyone would dislike this feature unless they fail to see the practicality or are just plain unable to adapt.
When my REx kicks in, I can barely hear it and only if I'm listening for it, It's not "loud"... I reset the car's computer to the European settings and use the "battery hold" to run the REx on the freeway. Then I go back to batteries when in town if I need the REx at all.
What do I not like about the car? Two things, I hate the shape of the wing-out doors as the lower corner juts out grabbing everything, clothes, legs, kids, dogs, very difficult operating in a typical garage. BMW needs to just run the door line straight down and not get cute with styling where no one can see it! Either that or go with a proper 4 door design. Second, widen the back and even add length to the car to give us some usable space back there. I would also like to see 200+ miles to the charge if possible. Other than that, I love this car! Styling is futuristic and now in 2021, it still is a cool looking ride! ;-)
I love the I3 its a future classic!
The strong regen is the best thing about the i3 + the acceleration :D
What the guy on the right doesn't seem to understand is that at 75mph on the highway, you're still only using about 20hp or so. The engine will be just fine, unless you completely run out of battery and want to floor it expecting full performance.
Love my i3 REx. Used only 1.5 gallons in the first 1,600 miles -- so he's right -- it is insurance...not another kind of hybrid. Regarding the regen when you take your foot off the gas -- easily got used to it and it does promote one-pedal driving. If I had three different settings it would make it 3 times as difficult and then I'd always need to remember which setting I was on in the moment. Much prefer the regen just as it is. I bought the i3 as my only car and I am 45 miles from a city. I was not a convert from a hybrid vehicle. I went all in from ICE to EV. Finally, of course, I am hoping for more public infrastructure to support this technology. But I knew what I was getting into and I have no regrets. I studied it for 15 months before making the purchase.
37K miles later (i've never put that many miles on a car in two years; ironic since it's supposed to be range challenged...) I'm still in love with this car. If they come out with a 200 mile battery by the time my lease expires in a year, I'll get that. If not I'll buy out my current lease and keep the car I've got. 95% of all my driving is "in range" and if I want to drive in the other 5% I can rent a car for these outlier events. The combination of battery and REx works better for me than even a 300 mile "battery only". This is not a hybrid or a plug-in hybrid because none of those have an electric range of 80 miles (which covers 95% of my driving), so, in truth, I can run this car for three months on one 2 gallon reserve tank of gas all summer long...that's not a hybrid. This car is the only one in it's class. It's a unique niche that works perfectly for people not living in urban circumstance and needing to deal with mountain driving regularly. Long live the i3!!!
With respect, you didn't go from ICE to EV if you have a REx - you own a hybrid. It's a plug-in hybrid, but it still has a tailpipe. My electric motorcycle is a BEV. My smart EV was a BEV. My Outlander PHEV is a hybrid.
I don't like one-pedal driving. Coasting is significantly more energy efficient than regen. When I put the Outlander into B0 with the steering wheel regen paddles, or when I put the smart in coast, I didn't have to wiggle my right foot around to try to maintain the neutral point. I do understand why one-pedal can be good in city driving, but it's more relaxing to be able to put the car into B0 on the highway. Different strokes, I guess. But I prefer having the option, rather than having the driving mode forced on me.
It's not a hybrid. The gas motor has nothing to do with propelling the car forward. All it does is create an electrical charge. The i3 can coast as well, and easily. It's like you've never actually driven one and just base your opinion on what an old man, who seems confused, says based on his (most likely) limited experience...
Here is feedback from an actual BMW i3 owner. I agree with Gary that at first the accelerator/regen brake pedal was something very different to most first time drivers. But after driving it for a few days, I would not like it any other way. One just needs to get used to it. It is a lot easier to use just one pedal rather than shifting your foot back and forth between pedals. The regular brake pedal is there just in case you needed a faster stopping situation. One thing I like to comment on is something that has occurred with the passage of time, something not know at the time of this video. The depreciation is tremendous on the i3. It's value after just 5 years is one third of its original selling price. I picked up a loaded 2015 REx with 21k miles in early 2020 for just $17,500. The original sticker price was $52k. Great position to be in....let someone else take the depreciation. The car has not really been a big seller over the past 6 years in the US because of its high price. Not a lot of people looking for a luxury subcompact.
Another take on this: The i3 wasn’t a good seller due to nay-sayers like this that throw the baby out with the bathwater. They have no clue about driving and EV on a daily basis, but yet they are here on this program spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt about the i3. Shame on them. Folks that do know should be spreading the word. EV’s make a car more like an appliance than anything else. Maybe EV’s are not a long term thing but right now it’s the best we have. Much better for folks in the city than ICE vehicles. It cuts down on noise and emissions. That matters when you are in a city. Noise pollution is bad. Poorly / improperly ICE vehicles are a horrible problem in confined apace in the city. Whereas EV’s do not have such issues, and present a much cleaner and quieter alternative.
Americans generally aren’t into real tech smart stuff . They like Gas and guns . They’re a wild bunch lol
The REX engine is NOT loud at all. I had the A/C fan running and barely noticed it. Whoever says it is loud has NEVER actually driven it.
As a BoltEV owner, it's great to learn about this cutting edge car!
I love my i3, I'm still getting stopped about 10+ times a week as I commute through the tri county area in Detroit, MI. Everyone loves it..... It would be nice to get paid for all of the personal time I lose talking to folk of all ages and backgrounds, about this car :-)
On my second i3 rex after test driving tesla, nissan, and chevrolet. Best thought out, built, and overall performance. Actually is my rex very regularly.. Once or twice a week.
We love our i3!!
BMW has people who can do math. Give them a little credit, huh? The idea that 30HP CONSTANTLY isn't enough to drive a car like this up a hill is just silly. To get the car up to 60 mph, you need 170hp for about 7 SECONDS. To maintain that speed against wind resistance requires a fraction of what it took to get all that mass moving in the first place.
Nobody drives around with their foot on the floor 100% of the time. Whenever you slow down, whenever you are going down a hill, the generator is still pumping along, putting out far more juice than you need to just maintain your highway speed. It is recharging the battery for the next time you need to get up a steep hill or merge onto the highway or whatever.
I am sure it is possible to flog the car so hard or find some really long and incredibly steep mountain road that would so deplete the battery that you are down to just the generator output, but you are never going to encounter that in the kind of normal, everyday driving situation this car was designed for. The REX kicks on when you have a few % left and "defends" that state of charge so you can still merge, pass etc.
Blame California's silly rules for why BMW changed the REX for the US instead of leaving the settings that every other country in the world gets, where you can set the 'hold state of charge."
You could always spend a few dollars to get it "coded" and get the car set up the way it should be.
One guy just doesn't get the point of the Rex. Unless your going 90 up a hill with ac blaring nothing is going to be different. It may be 38 hp but that has nothing to do with the drivetrain!
Also no one buying this car expects it to be a race car, it's an ev!
We have a low-mileage 2014 BEV, purchased in 2017 after a 3-year lease with only 8,000 miles. After 5 years in the South Carolina sun, the carbon fiber roof is starting to bubble and delaminate, although the top membrane, whatever it is, has not yet been broken. Other drivers have reported complete failure. Local dealer won't touch it, don't trust repair shops, so I'm looking for a UV-proof wrap and to just hope it doesn't eventually leak into the cabin.
Otherwise the car has exceeded our expectations in every respect. The only maintenance has been a brake fluid refresh, which is due again in 2023. We have a Level 2 charger in the carport and pay $0.024 per mile for electricity.
A white standard car wrap will do the job.
I wondered if fiberglass resin would work
2:56 hes driven an electic car once and complains about this? he shouldnt let his foot of the pedal so sudden. That's how you drive an ICE car... Don't fault the car if you dont know how to drive it. I love how he asks for customer feedback on this and the response is just "that's why it is like this" :D
Talk about someone out of the 1950's the guy on the right jezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Beautifully designed and made.
The fossils aren't only in the fuels.
Nothing is more annoying than old school thinking of coming up with every single fringe case of EV use, especially when the data is saying owners rarely use the range extender, drive an average of less than 40 miles per day, charge mostly at home, etc.
Yeah, this vehicle isn't for the 10s of people who routinely drive 100s of miles a day and commute across the country at a moment's notice. And the lack of public charging misnomer needs to stop. The model for refueling is completely different than the last minute fill-up with gasoline. Ford did a study that found 85%+ of charging is done at home, followed by workplace charging. The reality is it takes 15 seconds to charge up from a customer perspective - they just plug it in and wake up to a full charge.
The guy responsible for the EV1 is complaining about BMW interiors. Oh the irony!
...must be disappointed in the lack of turquoise colored instrument gauges and Fisher-Price inspired dash knobs
+Ian Derzsi Gary Witzenburg is a top of the line idiot. He wasn't responsible for the EV1 though. He might have been peripherally involved but certainly wasn't his brainchild. He is so dumb that he has written articles proudly proclaiming global warming to be untrue.
@@DanFrederiksen global warming is so true they had to rename it "climate change" .... Guess what they called global warming before that term was coined? Global cooling! Love science from agenda driven left. LoL
I know this is an old post but you just killed me there. "Fisher-Price inspired dash knobs" laughed myself sick!
Filmed is 2015, but looks like it was filmed in 1998.
Huh? What does that mean?
16:30 This strange "pictures-in-picture-thingy". Old people. Old clothes. Old studio styling.
The last 20 mins are off-topic and boring as they discuss trucks and not the BMW or EVs.
Also, if you’re going to be discussing the car, please take the time to drive it extensively enough to question and assess.
I disagree at 26:00. While the Nissan Leaf is technically based off the old Note or Versa line, it's a very custom-made version and thus pretty unique in that line. Also, I believe the Chevy Spark, as well as the Smart ForTwo EVs were originally designed as EVs, but then got converted to ICEs. It was after that when they got converted back to EVs. You can clearly see that with the Smart ForTwo, as it's also a rear wheel drive. The Spark has its battery in the back but it's electric motors in the front, giving it a nice balance.
The smart was originally designed to be power agnostic. The drive system is part of the rear suspension 'module' and can be electric, gas/petrol, or diesel. And yes - it's rear wheel drive. And yes - the car's a TON of fun to drive in it's stock mode, and even more fun when the automatic traction control fuse is pulled. LOL It'll definitely burn rubber, and it makes some tiny donuts. xD
Strange looking back on the BMW i3 seven years ago as if it was relevant.
my car does not have a transmission.
Yes regeneration can stress the driveline.
Just is everyday driving.
Love my i3 and to me it’s a great car with a lot of new tech. One comment to this show... can you look at your lighting? It’s terrible! Great content but really bad studio lighting.
Didn't know about repairable battery
Now I thought they were going to ask about the teardown of the i3 and the costs? I didn't hear anything on this or about the teardown either. What a let down for me and us who tuned in or watched the Video.
This is the link on the tear down... th-cam.com/video/uDr4L6BzpP8/w-d-xo.html
Listen to these old fogies talk about EV’s. This is why people are afraid of EV’s. Laughable. Do the math, they make sense for a lot of people. Charge overnight like a cell phone from the comfort of your garage or driveway. Whatever level you have in the morning will be enough to run the 20 miles or whatever you drive to work. In case something goes wrong, you have the Rex to give you around 70-100 miles to get back home or to a DC quick charger. Simple. No range anxiety and all problems fixed for 99% of most city drivers needs. It’s old dinosaurs like this that will argue against everything new “just because it’s not the way we have always done it”. Give me a freaking break! Get out of the way, the future is coming whether you grant it permission or not, Witzenberg.
No computers don't crash ... wtf is wrong with this guy?!? Has his ABS ever crashed? How about his cruse control? Has his door locks ever crashed? What a non expert.
I hear some turbo breathing...
Gary W. Has some severe nasal wheeze going on. Turbo breathing as someone has already mentioned. Very annoying to hear that during the show.
👍
Yes i like the look the interior a very good idea but not there yet ... and i just found it a bit funny the way he said " it is a premium car , its a BMW" ... range really bad , tech humm,battery bad , but listen guys " its a BMW"... REALLY!!???
WELL IF YOU BMW DO NOT COME UP WITH A BETTER THING ,THE NON PREMIUM CAR COMPANIES "TESLA " WILL PUT YOU OUT OF BUSINESS...
This trick " we are BMW , WE ARE AUDI, WE ARE MERCEDES , ETC ..." WILL FINISH SOON , AS SOON PEOPLE START REALIZING THAT IS JUST PURE RABISH..THEY CANT PRODUCE A EV AS GOOD AS THE OTHER ONE...
Well said!
Model X forty grand? More like 120 grand.
No customers have any negative feedback about the car. Yeah... bullsh*t. Why does everybody in the business world have to lie about everything, all the time? I mean, I know why, but it still gets tiresome.
Here's some common i3 complaints I guarantee BMW is getting:
1) Tiny infotainment screen with ancient 1990's-style knob interface (should be a touchscreen 6" or larger)
2) Charging port location at back rear of car, making it awkward to charge at public EV stations and most home garages.
3) Steering wheel material absorbs everything and turns hopelessly dark and smudgy over time, and cannot be cleaned up no matter how much you scrub it.
It's not a horrible vehicle, and I think the handling issues are not really a big deal as you quickly get used to the driving feel and the regen, but it does have some very serious flaws.
The charge port is actually in the correct location (back passenger side). It allows charging from street parking, as well as public charging from reversing into a spot, which is how you’re supposed to park anyways. Reverse parking is safer than nose first parking. Studies prove it. It’s safer to reverse into a spot you can see, than blindly reversing out of a parking lot, where most accidents happen.
Keep to simple recycle able materials better to repair and recycle.
I have owned a few Bimmers and they look and perform well. I like the idea of this car, but the styling is way too ugly.
The guy with grey hair sounds like a dinosaur. He really doesn't know that Tesla Has service centers all over the place, and will send people to come handle the issue. Tesla literally has the highest customer satisfaction out of any car company in the world!
Voujdjr Sounded to me like what was basically going on is that this show and others are supporting them because they are BMW.. and BMW is hoping for that. Not because they want to make EV's but because they don't.
I honestly think the plan is to "Give it a try" and then say that the technology isn't ready. This will give them an excuse to continue to make ICE vehicles because they are tooled up to make them.
What Tesla is flat out telling these dinosaur car companies is that they have to fire over half their workers because they are simply not needed. EVs are simple and involve more materials scientists than mechanical engineers and highly skilled assemblers.
And you sound like a fan boy. Early adopters always give rave reviews because it strokes their ego.
A fanboy of what? The car or the process for making them?
A little background about me.. I'm a process engineer by trade. I'm not an early adopter.. that was 2012-2014. The reality is sinking in for everyone. I'm also a petrol head in the Jeremy Clarkson order of petrol heads. In other words.. I've owned Alfa Romeos.
So though I might sound like a "fan boy" to you.. I would highly suggest that you take a deep breath and a step back and visit a Tesla gallery and take a good hard look at the chassis they have on display.
What you will see there is a very heavy sedan propelled 0-60 in under 3 seconds by a pair of watermelon sized propulsion units powered by an enormous laptop battery. Efficient.. low center of gravity.
Imagine what this thing is going to do both racing and range wise when it no longer has to haul around.. a sedan.
So do, please.. think this through and understand how much this really does change the game. It also changes it in the manufacturing arena. This car requires far less hanger's on than does traditional manufacturing. This car is something I identify with... something assembled by code writing bearded hipsters and their robots.
Hate to emphasize superficials but that's gotta be the most hideous car BMW ever conceived of. Did they hire a Chrysler designer?
Hate to emphasize superficials ....maybe you shouldn't then since logically everyone doesn't like the same things.
LIER !!!!!! YOU CAN DO burnouts... dounats.. You can disconnect stability system and play with care....
Range anxiety? I did not experience any RA when I recently test drove the Mercedes-Benz E300 BlueTEC Hybrid AMG 1,900 kilometres (we're goin' metric inch x inch) on a single tank.
+John K Lindgren i know, right! crazy! I had no range anxiety when I drove over 1300km through europe on one tank in my new BMW Diesel either!
+KingProne 1300km! Wow that is amazing. What size engine?
i was joking. But my parents Bmw 5 series 2l diesel from 2008 or smth like that uses about 4-5L if you stick to 120kmh or so. So with 65L tank thats about 1300km of range
KingProne OK, I'm thinking of buying a BMW320d so was interested.
I think the 3 series has a smaller fuel tank. My petrol from 2003 has 60L + 4L reserve. Modern Diesel 3 series only carry 45L i think??
Coach door = suicide door
No, the front doors have to be opened first and only then can the rears be unlatched so no danger involved.