Bob Lutz Talks GM, Ford & Stellantis - AAH 711
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ย. 2024
- TOPICS:
- The great EV disruption
- China's Global Strategy
- Mary Barra's legacy; Jim Farley's next step? & Can Carlos Tavares survive?
PANEL:
- Bob Lutz, Former Vice Chairman, General Motors
- Jack Keebler, Keebler Auto
- Gary Vasilash, shinymetalboxes.net
- John McElroy, www.Autoline.tv
INSTAGRAM: / autolinenetwork
TWITTER: / autoline
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WEBSITE: www.autoline.tv
Nice to see Lutz is still off his rocker.
Lutz was wrong about EVs in the past and is wrong about EVs now. He seems completely oblivious to the S curve.
Exactly. EVs will never make sense.
@@bunsw2070EVs are dominating. All the legacy automakers are dying out because they can't compete.
@@MatrixJockey
Evs is a ticking time bomb that's why more and more cities in China are not beginning to banned underground parking for a reason 😅😂
38k miles on my Model Y in ~19 months of ownership and I've never once had to wait in line for charging. Taken it on several 1,000 mile road trips (mostly in the Southeast) and again charging has never been a problem. It does take a little more planning, if I'm going to be staying somewhere rural for a few days (I'm from a small town), since there aren't local chargers, but it's already improved in just the last year alone. More buildout is certainly welcome to increase options, but my experience is already great. Would I consider an EV other than a Tesla at the moment? No.
Cool. Same here with a Model 3 after 18 months - never waited to charge it and I've driven it on plenty of out of town road trips, including flying out of state and driving it back home when I bought it. I waited many times in lines for gas at Sam's Club pumps or other gas stations with my previous car, a Prius, lol.
2018 model 3 with 120k miles. Never waited, not once. I would consider other evs now that Tesla network is open to GM, Ford and Rivian.
would i consider an ev? no
2016 Model S 110k miles. I am never pressing a start button ever again and never changing oil. I don't trust Lucid yet to stay in business to spend my money with them and I have no interest in a truck. So if I got in a crash today and totaled it, it would be another Tesla. Plus they been great to me. Service is better than Lexus, Porsche or BMW.
@@gnoxycat electric vehicles need electric motor automatic transmission fluid changes they use ATF9 fluid and need filter change with that unless older model s pre oil filter days lol still need atf9 even model s dating back to 2013.
Lutz handed down his thinking and DENIALS to Mary Barra.
I've taken my Tesla on a fair number of multi-state trips. I've never waited once for another vehicle.
That isn't to say it doesn't happen, but let's not pretend "that's just what happens on trips".
Do you live in Egypt? They dont have one single charging station in the entire country. A lot of countries are like that. Toyota sells a lot of cars in places like that.
Tesla knows second by second which stations are experiencing high demand. They know well in advance where they need to add more Superchargers or build a new charging station close by.
@@bunsw2070 Well sure, just because it's easily doable somewhere doesn't mean it is everywhere.
@@bunsw2070 I'm not in Egypt, but they already have over 500 charge points by Infinity EV. Considering this is a USA show, not sure Egypt's relevance.
No issues with Tesla on travel and charging. Bob knows what’s going . He’s deliberately ignoring Tesla.
He could charge his Lyriq at a Tesla Supercharger instead of griping about lack of charging locations when out of town.
Tesla can't hold a candle to Chinese EV companies. BYD makes 85% of everything that goes into their cars, including the battery. Tesla is around 40% to 45%. In a free market Tesla would go bankrupt.
He's driving a GM EV. He's driving a crippled product. Or at least it was crippled up until this week when Tesla opened their Superchargers to GM EVs.
Lutz is ignoring China .
Lutz is wrong. Currently fossil fuels are used for about 60% of US electricity, not 80%. Renewables are rising rapidly. Wind and solar are now producing more of our electricity than is nuclear. Solar installations have doubled in 2024 over 2023, which was a record year.
And of the 60%, most of that is from natural gas, which is far cleaner than coal. It also ignores all rooftop solar. Many EV owners I know (including myself) use solar to charge the car.
Yeah, I'm glad John pushed back on that point a bit.
all this range and charging issues they are discussing DOES not apply to Tesla's
Tesla is the brand that people love to hate. It's the only brand the MSM mentions when there is a crash or fire. Did you ever hear another brand mentioned ?
And as of this week it no longer applies to GM EVs. Tesla has opened up their Superchargers to GM products. (You do have to buy an adapter from GM.) Lutz can now drive his EV on a long trip.
Met this man in his house in Bloomfield Hills. His daughter Lisa invited my then wife and I to view some posters she bought while touring museums in Europe. The man was opinionated yet warm and gregarious. I wasn’t thirty yet and knew nothing of his stature and contributions to the auto business. I was given a tour of his phenomenal art collection and after we talked about his career while my then wife disappeared with his daughter and lovely wife. He downplayed his role over the years and was really modest. I still remember that day and I am very happy to have met him. Glad to see you are alive sir.
Bob Lutz just explained that GM and the rest of the legacy OEM’s are irrelevant.
Because they are
FYI. Avg American drives 20 miles a day. Range anxiety BS! GM had 14 yrs post bankruptcy to get it right, they failed!
What's your point?
It's more like 35 miles, but otherwise you're right. Range anxiety is only a problem if you drive an EV that does not have access to Tesla Superchargers.
@@bunsw2070 they couldn't find an older dinosaur, he is irrelevant, a talking head if you will.
Is the competition still coming?
125,000 km on our 2022 model 3 std range, average charge time on looong road trips is 18 minutes. Too bad people just don’t understand that with Tesla Superchargers everything works and fast.
Early mover advantage most likely. The US federal government has spent tens of billions on building chargers and gotten almost nothing for their money. The main reason is the electrical utilities can't provide them with the electricity. I'm in Toronto and the plant I work at has to shut down several times on hot days because the electrical grid cant cope. We've even eliminated the afternoon shift. The next step in 2 years is permanent shutdown of the plant, which has been here since early WW II. That's what these EVs are about. Getting us out of automobiles all together and eliminating our jobs so we have to go of guaranteed monthly income so they can treat us like pets. Take the jab or starve.
Americans have been brainwashed into believing Bigger is Better. Trying to get them to accept an EV with less than a 300 mile range is going to be miraculous.
It's just a matter of time, which really means experience. Once you know someone who is having no problem driving an EV with a moderate range you'll figure it out. And just think about all the households which have more than one car. How many take really long trips on the same day?
@@bobwallace9753 That is the sanest, most intelligent comment I have read regarding EVs. Thank you! 👍👍
They need to get Ben Sullins on one of these discussions.
I just finished watching his video.
No food lure for Bob Lutz this time?...last time he ate thru the entire show.
He has that tray beside him ,I was waiting for a plater of food to come out for him to munch on like last time.lol
Tesla has already done what Bob is complaining about.
Lutz is so out of touch. Everything he said about EVs is outdated.
Didn't think lutz was still alive
Same. I thought Elon finished him off.
@@ultrastoat3298 that's why he is not driving a Tesla ,he is like Bill gates
yep...super old and still sharper than you'll ever be
Me either
He has been dead in the head since the day he was born.
The time it takes to charge an EV is 30 seconds for most EV owners. 30 seconds to plug it in when you get home and when you wake up in the morning you have a full battery pack. Most people's daily commute is only 20 - 30 miles. So a cheap used EV with 100 miles of range would suit most people. Here in the UK you can buy a used EV with 100 miles of range for as little as £5k. For 200 miles of range will cost approx £10k. We just bought a used Kia Soul EV with 250 miles of range for only £14k. Even Bob Lutz has electricity in his home and charges his EV overnight - so the anti EV FUD he never stops spouting is totally false - waiting at a charging station in a queue to charge is not the norm - charging at home over night IS the norm. I did a long road trip the other day to an antique fair 100 miles away from home. I never stopped to charge at all as my China made Tesla Model Y has 300+ miles of range. If I drove to Blackpool 245 miles away from Reading then I would still make it without having to stop to charge - I would have to stop once for a comfort break. Lucid Air has a range of over 500 miles - but is not available here in the UK yet. Lucid Air is available in the USA for $69k and used ones are obviously a lot cheaper. EVs should last longer than ICE vehicles as they have very few moving parts - around 20 compared to 2000 in an ICE vehicle.
TL;DR. Most people live in apartments so can't charge at home. I know one guy with an Hyundai Ioniq 5 EV that will never buy another EV. His insurance company won't let him park it in his garage or install a 220 Volt outlet on the outside of his house for charging. Most of the time the vehicle never gets fully charged, especially in winter when so much electricity is diverted to keeping the battery from freezing. He's aged years in the 9 months he's owned the car.
everybody in the legacy world has to try to point out anything negative on evs because if everybody knewthe advantages all the legacy companies would gone already.
EVs make no sense. There aren't enough minerals. They're disposable because of the fire hazard. They're thermodynamically inefficient because you're hauling around a heavy battery all the time. Gasoline makes the most sense. EVs are not about global warming. It's to kill personal transportation. In the near future you'll be allowed to walk as far as you want. Otherwise you'll need written permission from the government.
Baghdad Bob, er, Detroit Bob.
Unfortunately most of our economic policies have been created by politicians on both sides and not statesmen.
Jack - I dispute your diesel gate association with the Cyber truck comment. You were probably there at GM when I worked there trying to make GM powertrain a better development platform. You may not like the CT but the technology will bury GM if they don’t adapt.
Near where I live (and my city is small) there are many EV charging stations of all sorts. No waiting. My city is a bedroom community to Sloppy Joe Ranch and the abundance of tech people here is amazing. Every household has at least one EV, some have only EVs.
The Chinese work harder and smarter plus they know we are outnumbered. They have more people studying in university than we have people.
Most of China's electricity comes from burning coal. They're big on EVs so they can move the pollution away from the cities. Why they wouldn't just use gasoline is beyond me. Diesel is a different issue. Those fumes are poison.
And it's beyond me that Lutz has no idea that the BYD Seagull was already torn down and found to be more elegantly designed and advanced then anything made in the west. Chinese OEMs are vertically integrated. Legacy car companies aren't. They don't know how to design or make anything. They just buy modules and bolt them onto painted sheet metal. That's why they're failing in transitioning to EVs. And that's why they're buying Chinese car companies. For the know how.
Can someone tell mr nutz here , byd produce 70% to 80% of the the car in house.
Cars made in america are assembled with outsource parts.. 😆
Lutz is the guy who said the HHR would be huge, yet was discounted from the start and went largely into rental fleets. He was also behind the Volt that GM claimed would not be profitable until its 3 generation, but barely lived past a mild refresh. I think he was largely involved in the Malibu, a completely forgettable car that is also gone. Not interested in what he has to say.
Gary… pull your head out of the ground-- Cybertruck is a great success right now!! More Cybertrucks will be sold this year than ALL legacy Electric Trucks combined!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lutz’s handler mentioned CT jokingly like it is a failure. 😂 I was waiting for John to comment, but he probably had a NDA to Lutz comments. John is the only person who gets BEVs. Lutz is STILL uninformed all these years later. Thank god I didn’t believe him in 2019 investing in TSLA.
Jesus Bob! You can go across country in a Tesla with limited down time!
If you overnight at a hotel with a destination charger you probably don't lose any time at all. Just charge while eating lunch. And, perhaps, grab a few minutes of charge when you stop for the afternoon pee.
Thank you Mr. Lutz. What a Legend.
lutz lies as much as barra
Failure legend?
Been looking forward to this all day
I liked the Dodge Viper anecdote, thank you I had a good time listening!
I cant wait for next weeks show
Great show, great guest!
Its a long time since you looked at power generation, it was 60% the time i looked, and it would be less now
Here in the UK when people say "the charging infrastructure isn't ready yet" I always amaze them by saying "There are more EV charging stations than petrol stations. Plus you can charge anywhere where there is electricity - anywhere that has a 3 pin plug socket. Most EV owners charge overnight when they are asleep. If you have solar on your roof then you can charge for free directly from the sun. It used to cost me £75 to fill up my old diesel car but my Tesla is only £25 to fill up at a Tesla supercharger - or cheaper when I fill up at home over night". As of May 2024, there are more public electric vehicle (EV) charging points than petrol stations in the UK: EV charging points: 62,536 public charging points Petrol stations: 8,353 at the end of 2023.
""There are more EV charging stations than petrol stations. So you're just lying to them?
Petrol doesn't take hours to fill up. And the petrol pump actually works when you need it.
Love you guys. Watch all the time. And don’t want to be rude. But can we please get a lot more younger people who have their finger on the pulse of current and future tech and really understand the future of the industry. Get Tesla, BYD, Nvidia engineers, etc. So many dinosaurs on these after hours. Thank you.
Well, unlike most of the commenters on here. I really enjoyed today's show. Lutz is a legend, despite all the naysayers. Thanks for having him on .
Norway imposed 100% import tax on ICE cars and do not make any cars in the country.
But, while the government is pushing hard towards EV adoption, it sells large amounts of oil and gas to other countries to burn.
So on balance Norway is a big source of CO2 emissions from fossil fuels.
Stopped listening because Bob’s knowledge on EVs was so out of touch with current reality.
i listen 30 seconds of Lutz, only bullsh*, he's a silly old fart. he has nothing to say.
John - Fascinating discussion, but still hard not to call it "A Chat with the Dinosaurs". Would be way more informative to have Lutz on with RJ Scaringe or Elon Musk, so we can compare and contrast the approaches to business. Yesterday vs Today. That's the talk I'd love to see!
Lutz loves to hear himself talk and Jack is a just a smug cheerleader. I think this could be the last Lutz appearance on AAH. His relevancy has come to a close. I didn’t learn much from his visit.
The difference in power station versus gasoline exhaust pipe is the power station can have an alkaline solution handy into which the carbon dioxide easily dissolves for disposal, whereas the exhaust pipe doesn't have that convenience and if it did, it would be too heavy, slow down performance. 😊😊😊😊
I saw Mr Lutz speak at WCX 2019. He said that we "had" to go zero emissions, zero crashes. Why now, and why are AV the solution? I found his tone disturbing.
Funny they avoid EV by Tesla and they earn money and Tesla has the world No1 selling car theY . I know Tesladoes not advertised Ithaca you guys. But bereal!
I have an 2015 Audi A6 Biturbo diesel. I fill every couple of weeks,costs $110 and I can get close to 1000km on a trip.
It has tonnes of power and torque, it’s reliable and economical.
Why on earth would I buy an expensive EV,? which I cannot charge at home in my apartment block( in fact they are looking at whether to ban parking EVs in our underground car park). The depreciation is terrible, the range on a trip is terrible and time consuming. You can’t tow.
I can drive from Brisbane to Sydney without refilling.
The diesel make sense for me.
Bob is still the leader in my book 📖 and a hellova legend and icon ♥️♥️♥️
This dinasaur is just regurgitating the propaganda
GM and Hyundai merger is great according to Bob. BYD and Tesla are going to the top because of vertical integration. He’s so out of touch. And now you see why the Big3 will merge, be sold, or go bankrupt.
Is Lutz badly informed or a liar?
Bob has cool stories about the old days, but when it comes to EVs, he's still talking about the old days.
He said Spacex is not as big on DEI as it should be! That maybe the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I don’t know if he made a single good business decision in at least 3 decades, which is why the companies he led all turned to crap.
Can GM survive without the Chinese market? Because the way relations are going I could see that market disappearing.
Always great with Bob Lutz. He’s sharp as ever. Thanks for another great show.
Lutz has EV opinions from 15 years ago
This show definitely didn’t live up to the hype.
Bob talking for 40 minutes about too big and slow bureaucracies in OEM’S doesn’t make a compelling show.
Jack Keebler’s snide comment about PHEV’s wasn’t needed. My wife and I have a RAV4 Prime and have literally saved thousands of dollars plugging in every night. And still get 35mpg on long trips.
The little bit I learned from Bob (Group14) about the outlook for EV’s in the future was nice.
But not a wasted hour of blah,blah,blah.
I love EVs... Now let me completely misrepresent them.
US: 26% renewable energy. 20% nuclear.
RE rapidly rising. Even higher this summer.
(1H2024)
Most recent 12 month rolling average, ending with May 24. Renewables 21% and nuclear 19%. The H1 2024 tells us how fast renewables are growing. Solar installations in the US are double what they were in 2023 and that was a record year.
The problem with the Chevrolet Volt is the styling. It wasn’t a good looking car.
So sad to see Bob Lutz so out of touch, poorly informed and completely wrong about EV's. Couldn't get past the first 15 minutes.
EVs make no sense.
@@bunsw2070
Or, you make no sense....
LL=lutz lies
ICE is done. RIP. semis too
No car company is perfect.
Toyota for all of the criticisms against them, seem to have a winning formula, and don’t listen to the Tesla fan club.
Wait Mary Barra is doing what?
Always good to see Bob and his great knowledge. I hope you guys passed around the hat to buy him a pair of new shoes. 🤣
Bob Lutz needs to be kept around forever.
I think my Silverado LTZ was named in his honor
Bob you are incorrect about electricity generation.
A Diesel PHEV / hybrid vehicle would be amazing in the US.
Couldn't disagree more with Lutz about how EVs aren't ready yet. Just a deadender way of thinking, as if we can afford to keep building gas cars despite facing an intense Climate Crisis. He's not informed, and despite driving an EV, claims they're not good enough. Just an awful attitude. Dinosaur's opinion on electrification is just always dangerously problematic.
Not as much DEI?? in SpaceX? Bob, Don't blame Boeing's short comings on DEI. There are many qualified engineers of color who are top performers when given an opportunity. I have no respect for you making these off-handed statements. Bob, take a look at the movie, "Hidden Figures." Bob, don't forget your prophecy for Tesla...."The big boys are coming."
DEI is not about putting unqualified people into positions. It's about making sure you aren't overlooking qualified people because they aren't straight white boys.
To lutz- put your nose next to tailpipe for 5 mins and then talk about EV vs ICE.
Bob Lutz is still living in 1980. Since 2000, the US has increase renewable sources of energy relating to power the grid by 156%. The rate of increase is on a curve. How can he not realize that whatever we have today does not represent tomorrow. Let's not even talk about the auto industry being a global market. We can't survive if we just make ICE cars. VW is already going broke because they can't sell in China. Even Europe is going electric and VW can't make a decent EV. Stop talking about energy for the grid. We have to talk about competing globally for the future of our kids. If we think like a luddite, China will eventually be the next and biggest superpower. Lutz is nutz. Charging does not take as long as he's claiming. He's also talking about the CCS-1 charging station issues which will be gone soon with the adoption of NACS. He's stuck in the past
What does Bob Lutz think of that Fortune Magazine poll of US CEOs ranking Musk as the most overrated CEO in the US ?. How much time does Lutz spend on Twitter ?.
Which CEO has founded multiple highly successful businesses? Bezos has one and a flop.
Why is everyone ignoring the huge gigantic elephant in the room which is manufacturing costs ie....cost to pay UNIONIZED EMPLOYEES! Everyone is so polite to say what are the chinese doing? Well they are NOT paying UNIONIZED workers! When you don't have to pay $40/hour minimum for everyone down the supply chain it gets pretty easy to build cars for cheap!
Labor only makes up 4% of the cost of a US union built vehicle.
@@bunsw2070
Yep. Blaming the workers when management made the bad decisions.
John, learn the basics before you open your mouth or don’t talk about things you know very little about.
While electric motors are efficient, electricity generation and transmission is not.
If you honestly add everything up and account for the fact that most electricity is generated by burning fossil fuels, the efficiency of electric propulsion is not that much better than refining crude oil, distribution and burning if gasoline in ICEs.
But that is minor point.
Personal transportation consumes about 10% of global energy. Replacing ALL ICEs with electric cars tomorrow and charging all those EVs only with electricity generated with wind, solar, nuclear, hydro (both completely unrealistic assumptions) would have minor effect on the environment.
You seem to be unaware that half of the global energy is used for heating and cooling. This is the area where improvements would bring significant reduction of CO2 emissions.
Unfortunately uninformed journalists keep talking about EVs as the solution to global CO2 emissions problem completely ignoring 90% of the CO2 sources.
If you are keen on reducing CO2 emissions from cars, stop salivating about yet another ICE vehicle with a giant engine that can propel a big vehicle from 0 to 60 in 5 seconds or less.
Promote small cars consuming small amount of energy.
Learn about physics to understand that it takes the same amount of energy to move 3500lb EV and a 3500 ICE.
Read the study published by VW few years ago. You may learn that long term impact on environment depends on how the grid the EV is using to charge, is generating electricity and the overall advantage of EV is not that great.
But back to the main issue : cars are not the biggest source of CO2 emissions. Therefore replacing ICEs with EVs will not solve anything except smog problem in large Chinese cities.
I don’t care what anyone says, in Australia HEVs are the future here. EVs and the charging infrastructure just won’t get there for years and years. anything you have to plug in just won’t be the the go here.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_switch_recalls
Lutz is a dinosaur, why bother interviewing him?
Those who want to see why legacy auto are in trouble should google Michael Dunne of Dunne Insights , latest title is about "Chinas Blitzkrieg in auto"
I checked it out. He's an EV dreamer. EVs will never make sense.
A lot of Tesla bootlickers out there. Just remember this fact. Without massive government inventive and carbon credits there would be no Tesla.
Same for GM and Stellantis with their bankruptcy bailouts in the 00s ....
In 3 years Cybertruck will be outselling the gas F-150.
Dreamer
I just went on it over 2000 mile trip in my 2013 Tesla Model S with 188,000 miles on the original battery. I have never waited for charging. Maybe I’m lucky in the south east region of the US. Here’s a video of our trip. th-cam.com/video/0KiArRSUbuU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=gsZdQCPoLoVDjFL4
17:40 "I don't have all of the facts." This is why you should get Tony Seba on the show instead, he has facts, all of them. Per Seba, Lutz is exactly part of the "experts" that does not see the disruption happening.
Blah.. blah..blah...nothing new... almost... NOONE mentioned re. through the roof AUTO Insurance on EVs - 30% DECLINE of 2nd EV buyers... and GOD FORBID accidents when entire EV batteries need to be replaced... among other things.... EVs already failed twice through the years... Many do hope their fate will be repeated...
Don't do drugs kids, or you'll end up like this guy.
Chrysler needs a savior like Lee Iacocca today 🫤
Too late