Tearing Down the Model T of Our Time - Autoline After Hours 284
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 เม.ย. 2015
- SPECIAL GUEST: Sandy Munro, Munro & Associates
- A teardown analysis of the BMW i3 so complete that the company thought the secrets were leaked!
All that and much more with John McElroy, Autoline.tv; Gary Vasilash, Automotive Design & Production; Lindsay Brooke, SAE.
Get more video everyday at autoline.tv - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
(If anyone is still watching this today...)
Curious after 2 years owing a 2017 REx:
Why aren't other vehicles using this series hybrid formula?
After re-coding the ICE to be selected anytime below 75% state of charge, we use i3 for any & all trips, local or out of state (71k miles now). We enjoy the benefit of nightly home charging, a 130mile EV range and never fret over being hostage to public charging.
We burned only 25 gallons of gasoline last year to cover 24,000 miles. Is that a sin?
It seems a small ICE (with 20% of the power of the electric drive motor 35hp ICE for a 170hp drive motor) is plenty capable of keeping the battery sustained on longer trips.
I would think you could apply that same formula to a passenger or canper van, too.
If the drive motor was 300 hp, a simple 60hp ICE, optimized for charging, would suffice on long trips.
I suppose a day trip of 600 miles at 86mph into a headwind would slowly drop the battery SOC, but we typically don't drive that way.
All this focus on humongous, heavy, costly batteries and billion$$$ spent on public charging is ignoring an ideal solution with PHEVs and range extenders..
What am I missing?
When the i3 was the ‘Model T of our time’. Classic!
It never was.
The Model 3 is.
Wow! I love my i3 even more. Thank you for all the insight!
Mr. Munro really is an outstanding guest for you guys. What a wealth of specific information on a depth level you just don't find in the industry often. Having that engineering level information on vehicles goes beyond just being an informed consumer.. it really shows us how good a company is in its innovation and tech. I'd watch more of this level of new car info any day.
This has been the best show ever with Sandy Munro. Great questions all around. If you are curious, The 'Mrs Quandt' Sandy referenced is Johanna Quandt, major shareholder of BMW, who's worth is around $44B as of Dec 2014.
Jesse Parris She is not worth anywhere near $ 44B, that is the worth for the Quandt family
***** I stand corrected. Let's just say she is not worrying about her personal budget.
As an i3 owner, I found this review absolutely fascinating! I never realized how truly advanced the tech and design are. Makes me appreciate my car all that much more. Great Show!
I never cease to be impressed by the technical people that you can only see on this show. This particular show should be manditory for every CEO in the auto industry. If they saw it, they would say " Why haven't we bought the report?" If BMW can engineer this, why does GM have trouble with a simple ignition switch?
As an engineer I like Monroe approach toward technologies and costs analysis, nice business model I see the genius in this guy. May you have lots of success.
Sandy is a great guest. I'd never even heard of Autoline before he appeared on the Model 3 teardown show. That one was phenomenal. So interesting. I actually was involved in a teardown of a Mazda transfer case one time when I worked at New Venture Gear during college so this topic is somewhat familiar. It's interesting to see how different companies do things.
wow this was one of the best show ever.
This was super interesting. Thank you to all involved.
I only just recently came across this & also found it fascinating like one of the other commenters, great work! 👍
I have an i3 for the weekend+ ! Perfect timing. Love this thing.
Amazing, eye-opening show. Love this stuff.
This is an absolute gem
Great insight. Interesting how many people don't think much of this car but fail to realize all the technical breakthroughs that it utilizes. Excellent discussion.
Making it an expensive failure and a test bed, not a real production car that is sustainable. So far nobody is making one that costs the same as a IC engine vehicle. Which means no sales till gas goes way up.
@@brucec43 Far from a failure, actually overall sales have grown every single year since introduction. Doesn't sell as much here in the U.S., but extremely popular across the waters. And the CEO just committed to another few years of production, BMW and the owners (like myself) see the i3 as a success. I've owned many wonderful cars, but this little machine is something special. I understand the design is love or hate, obviously enough of us love the design and respect the tech, that production continues. This vehicle was built for buyers like myself, we want something different, not the mainstream. And as they stated in this interview, BMW is making money on the i3. I'm currently on an 800 mile road trip in my i3, during winter in the midwest. The Range extender works extremely well (if needed) on the highway, and you can't hear it at higher speeds speeds, the car is very smooth and comfortable.
I've said enough.
Phenomenal Show ... Really liked the Guest and his insight into the i3 design
Thanks for the great insight. Best show so far.
One of the best After hours I've seen. I hope Mr. Munro generated some added interest in that report so he's keen to return in the future.
What a great guy Sandy appears to be, I like his sense of humour.
that was awsome!!! bring him back again plzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Great show. He's an awesome guest.
Have him back for another hour, or two, or five! Please!
My God he was holding part of a car frame welded to the suspension like I was holding the frame of my mountain bike. He showed the revolutionized motor. circuit board of the infotainment topped with the best battery in the world. This revelation alone would scramble the Korean, Chinese and Japanese engineers for a piece of the action on the new wave in car making.
thanks Very interesting info.
In awe, WOW what a car. Thought i3 was amazing but didn't know how much! Fascinating what they did. Sandy Munro must be back with more. Maybe was meant to be city car but i3 owners take it to the next level.
You guys are awesome. Such depth of knowledge. Wish you would talk about how the cafe standards continue to kill right sized vehicles in the us as well as people not in any car.
"...from an engineering standpoint, everything was jaw dropping ..."
That Monroney sticker has the same effect.
The carbon construction from the i3 has shown up in the S1000RR HP4 Race motorcycle. It uses carbon frame, a first for a motorcycle, and carbon wheels.
Good gracious this is fascinating. I did not think a room full of guys chatting could be so interesting frankly.
Wow! What an excellent episode, gents!
Very, very interesting.
I've watched several TH-cam factory production videos of the i3 which I found to be quite fascinating so this discussion complemented that info.
Thanks!
BMW has admitted that the BMW i3 has become profitable.
What an absolute genius. This man said that "Everything from the past is the past, everything from here forward is what's going to happen" referencing the BMW i3. Now nearly every single automaker is transitioning to EV's, most of which with a skateboard-deck battery design and an electric motor (Primarily in the rear) w/ a small frunk/boot in the front.
Most impressively Sandy sort of predicted that future EV’s would have to adopt innovations like the aluminum casting of a major part of the future passenger car.
He brought one to show off he was so certain the tech was the future.
The man deserves his fans. Even before a Tesla ever entered his business.
Great show! If Sandy is reading this - Is the 2019/2020/2021 I3 with the 42kwh battery still relevant in the market?
This is mind blowing
i generally dont care for autoline after hours...BUT i love when Munro and associates are on
Sandy, I have a 2018 BMW I3s REX and ran the battery down to the point that the REX came on and I didn't know it was running until I pulled into my garage and got out and heard something running that sounded like a quiet little fan. I went to the backIt was the REX and it shut off a few seconds later
John Warden I think what you heard was actually the fan that cools the REX when it has run (I have an i3 REX too and I have that noise a few times).
But the REX itself is not very loud either when it doesn’t need to generate too much power.
The part they get from Morocco is Cobalt, Australia also provides cobalt as well.
I like the exterior of the i3, and I love the interior. Two problems that will likely stop me from buying a used 2019 i3s to keep for a long time in a few years: 153miles might still not be enough for me long term, and the tires, they are a strange size so supply could be hard/costly in the long term. Also it's an impressive car, but it should be said I've seen some repair bills for these that are the cost of a brand new subcompact.
Very good show
So fascinating, damn!
If this were a marketing stunt, BMW aced it. This is a surprise attack by BMW that should send shivers down the spines of the competition
Cool show and information. I am an aircraft design engineer so I can relate to what they are talking about. one comment was flat out wrong though, Aluminum does corrode, especially when it's in proximity to CFRP.
What is it about CFRP that makes aluminum corrode?
@@areitu it induces a galvanic reaction.
@@Chris012345671 BMW uses adhesive to join dissimilar material, the adhesive prevent the corrosion you mentioned. it' s in Monroe's report which is now only $10. I've sent the link to a bunch of my engineering buddies, quite a read...
@@shellfishdoh6635 Thats what we do in aviation as well. There are a number of methods to prevent corrosion, some unique to joining it with CFRP; however, my original comment was in reference to the video that said aluminum 'does not corrode', which is incorrect.
@@Chris012345671 yeah, Sandy needs to watch the details next time, he is usually pretty good at catching himself. As far as I know any material will corrode if the right elements are in place. I'm more interested in how they manage the thermos expansion and shrinkage between the two materials.
Good show.
The BMW i3 is so innovative. The engineering and the design is amazing.
The only downside is that in 2017 in the US only about 500 a month sold!!! Yikes.
Kind of a boom startet in Germany by 2020....when goverment paid around 6.600 $ extra if you buy new EV. The I3 sold from that moment around 12000 pieces a year just in Germany. (is a middle class number...Tesla Modell 3 sold 30.000) And you got additional good discounts from BMW or very good leasing offers. I could have leased it by 200$ each month/7500 miles a year....this is possible, because the 6600 $ from state are subtracted from the 24 months payment amount.
Another point is improved loading infrastructure and sufficient range meanwhile. They finish the model by July 22😪 I ordered one of the last avaiable models in december 21....hopefully delivered in May 22.
I think its a good looking car! Better looking than most on the road! Possibly right up there with the sophistication of high luxury.
Feel lucky to have the 2014 bev loaded Tera. Decided for the non Rex because it made no sense to get a ice. I can understand the reasoning for the Rex though in my case the bev is the way to go if you want the electric car experience. The car is an amazing machine and it rides incredibly. It’s definitely a weird look, but this is a pioneering vehicle not exactly a runway model. The purpose of the ev experience is achieved with the i3. Now I’m waiting for the SUV bevs. I don’t think I could ever go back to ice cars except for the classic v8s from 60’s through early 70’s. Lucky to live in this era of rapid innovation. Tesla model s 3 and x are great cars as well just didn’t have the money to drop or the time to wait.
The range extender only turns-on after the battery drops to empty, so you still have the EV experience but no range worries
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Morocco: likely the textile interior, dash :)
Very interesting
Bit of ancient history, not just the participants, it's newly old technology now.
Very interesting video, it would be interesting to revisit this now in 2023 ( as production as / is ending ) and see how the manufacturing process impacted the current industry or did it remain an outlier 😀
He’s talking it like they’ve got ahold of na alien craft 🛸 😁
Actually people talk bmw collaborated with aliens
@ 38:48 "I've forgotten his name.. Elon Musk" :-)
I clicked on this thinking it was going to be a tear-down. Then I saw it was a talk-fest and thought "oh no!"
Then I was thoroughly engaged for an hour! Such an informative guy.
That's my kind of information. There's really just two that share the watershed reference: the BMW i3 without the range extender & the Tesla Model S. I (and about a million other people) would love to see a teardown of the Tesla. Wink. wink.
I'm in the market to go electric and the Model S 70 D is the most contented car for the money they have a ever produced making it quite a bargain for the long run. Or for half the money there's the i3. Problem is it's half the car, I don't commute, and I love to travel long distances, so for me the choice is clear.
Either way, 20 years from now, when it's all Carbon/Aluminium Electric we will look back and remember those were the two that changed it all.
Munro has said in a recent video that they have not done a tear-downs on Tesla Model S or the Tesla Model X because they are "low volume". Yet the Model S almost sold 5 times as many cars in the US in 2017 as the BMW i3 and the Model X sold over 3 times as many in the US in 2017.
The i3 with backup 2-cylinder engine is a necessity for many of us.
If I knew there was forensic level stuff in the auto industry, I would have gone for engineering!
BMW was one of the companies that licensed the Rocky Mountain Institute's Hypercar work. This is a "Reinventing Fire" car!
www.rmi.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/RMI_Supercars_Coming_Light_Vehicle_Revolution_1993.pdf
www.autoblog.com/2007/01/05/a-short-history-of-the-rmi-hypercar-ultralight-vehicle-concept/
Speaking as an EVer, I actually do not want a car that looks like a Transformer (Prius) or a catfish (Gen 1 LEAF). I loved the quirkiness of my smart EV, and also love my Outlander PHEV. My 'perfect' car would be a B4 VW Passat station wagon/estate with Mitsubishi's two motor 4WD system in the Outlander and the battery from a Bolt. Extra credit for making it out of carbon fiber and using RMI's hypercar rules!
Update: BMW cancelled the i5 so the Toyota venture didn't happen on that project.
AFAIK BMW is not behind all the drivetrain tech, instead they hired a London based engineering firm. There is an pdf from them describing the generator and everything in detail.
I like this guy a lot. Great interview, but at the end of the day the i3 isn't making BMW any profit. But later on their r&d will likely pay off
The batery?
Welding extruded aluminum to cast aluminum suspension piece shown here at around 9 minutes in:
th-cam.com/video/pa5_tudyAF8/w-d-xo.html
What about body work damage ? Would it not present a lot problems in the body shops. Well, the outer panels are bolt or glued on. But what about the damage to the inner panels to the point the car may not steer true.? You just write it off!
I dont know what they are talking about with the gas engine being loud or rough. I cant even tell when its running.
The best ev out there
Three years later I hear very little about carbon fiber vehicles.
BMW had this amazing team of engineers that were "all in" developing and creating this innovative product. Then the team lost all support within the company and most, if not all, of the engineers are now working for Chinese EV companies. Way to go BMW, Tesla is now light years ahead of you!
The X4 proves there was a boardroom coup back to the blob
Bmw is back on track it fired old ceo
The watershed moment.. before the next watershed
By Model T is he referring to Tucker?
Remarkable. Had no idea how amazing work BMW did with this car. Shame that it looks ugly... though to be fair - it looks better in real life than it looks on photos, but still... damn... this could be like the global best-seller if not the looks.
"They're so advanced it isn't even funny"
wow...
and people think Tesla is ahead when in reality the only things they have remaining is nice design and bigger batteries.
Hemp fiber before its turned to carbon is cheaper and just as strong , for this application .
Many years later and we have not seen a carbon fiber transformation. Not even remotely.
Last caller thought he was clever but his question had been answered in the vid already. PAY ATTENTION before asking stupid questions.
The fact is, this is the most expensive sub 100 miles EV, so what benefits do these techs bring?
That’s why you buy the hybrid version, so when the EV battery runs out, you can continue running on gasoline. ALSO truth is most people commute less than 25 miles per day, so they will not need to burn any gasoline
.
Elder pier - Not much. Since then Tesla is making CyberTruck from stainless steel, and die cast molding of ModelY body sections; all while leading on efficiency.
Frankly, would still prefer a 100 mile EV + limitless range extender over a 500 mile BEV.
It's freeing to never be held hostage to public charging while travelling (although always a happy option if time & opportunity arises).
38:13 Sandy: "Tesla...ehh...I forgotten his name." Gary: "Elon Musk".
I guess, Sandy underestimated Tesla and Elon Musk a bit at that time.
Calling an i3 "the Model T of our time" nowadays sounds like a hell of a stretch
Leaf or model 3 are more like model T, cheap, inexpensive mass market and usable/practical
What you do is tell those talented Farmers who engineer all day every day that they can have a working holiday with Sandy. It's the only way to get them unstuck from the farm, and they will probably de-stress on the job and want to stay doing something that actually pays.
The car is really handsome. Don't kidd yourselves 😂
The conversation at (32:00) is wrong information. The people who love electric cars never asked for weird looking cyber cars that look different from other cars. The badging was all that was needed. It was Japanese designers that made that mistake. Everyone else just followed.
I agree, it is a weird assumption to make.
Hopefully auto-makers are getting over that stupid idea.
I would agree that is a gross generalization. Go to Japan today and you will see why Toyota styling is so weird in the US.
They feel buyers want to signal their social virtue to others and would be mad if their car looked normal.
I guess they designed it that way so people that wanted to make a statement would buy them. The Prius is still ugly but now they used the technique in their boring cars too.
No those cars had intentional weird styling so market would not become too large, cannibalizing their ICE models sales.
Bmw i3 future collectible car 100 k usd in future
What is a tin banger or a another version I've heard is a tin knocker
All these techs and know how was not able to make a good looking car!
Isn't using hemp fiber better than carbon fiber ?
No because carbon fiber hardens when cooked. Hemp does not
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You would understand the difference if you weren’t High all the time
.
yes it's woven.... jeez, some people cant even be corrected
Can’t wait to see Sandy’s tear down of the Model Y.
Later he would find these giant die casts inside the Model Y and lose his mind over it. lol
That die casting comment really aged well here. hahaha.
dinos talking about there relatives who are gas.Sparky, the future is powered.
So they are smart car and smart battery, and each one are deferent, so it is not good to have car can self destruct it self if find it self , we can save Mather earth but greed is a problem to use the watt we need . BMW Is one can show off the best .
I never knew Bill Gates used to do a motor show.....! How's that 'Model T' doing these days? lol.
Yes, the $60,000 econobox that is ass ugly is a watershed.
Diesel truck lover?
🚕🚕🚕🚕🚕🚕
Not sure how you from from 30k to 2 million dollars tear down.
Somehow it's an awful thing this company does. A company invests millions to create a unique car line, these guys rip it and sell the details as do-it-yourself manuals. Chinese automakers will love them for sure.
Between them they have maybe 11 years of education.
+abz124816 I know you're trying to be funny, but I'm sorry to say you've failed at that. If you'd watched this video you'd have noted that Mr Munro talked about the time he was working alongside BMW during their ownership of Rover. BMW sold Rover in 2000, so 16 years ago.
+James Franklin I did not mean to offend you. You sound like a university graduate. My comment was about the interviewers.
Rover is a mistake on wheels :)
The interviewers also have decades experience having WORKED inside auto factories before transitioning to journalism
.
So just exactly what has BMW done lately? Apparently they still think it's too early to go all electric. So what happened?
An amazing car. Underhyped. Opposite to a Tesla :-)
Are you kidding? How awesome was that? I wish there was less BS and more about the car. We’ve been looking over a month for one. They ended US deliveries in July so… Interesting comment about the REX. I’m not sure if he was condemning it purely from an engineering standpoint or it will have problems. However, the comment about the car being essentially unsafe on just the REX didn’t know it can be coded to come on like the European delivery where the REX can come on below 75% battery and you won’t have those issues. It makes driving long distances a breeze BUT it was built for commuting.
Sandy wasn't condemning the Rex, just saying they could have done better. He thought it was loud, but it is not
@@FranklySpeaking73 I ended up with a 2021 straight EV on lease last September. Could not be happier with the car.
lol @ the guy complaining about sneezing when he waves around the CF. Those fibres are just as bad as asbestos.