So what are you doing with these cars? What happened to all the projects at the shop that you were milking are you still going to be in there doing those projects?
@@dermottbarrett764 I agree with Mr. Barrett here you never brought #1 to TDC and checked your timing mark or ran your firing order? you also said at one point that the valves where not fully opening which my first thought was collapsed lifters?
I have a black 59 edsel ranger. The 292 is missing parts, the transmission has the pan gone. I am going to go with a 289 C4 I purchased in another car.
I think oiling the cylinders to get the rings to free and bump compression and trying to get a better connection to the starter would be worth a try as I didn't sound like it was spinning fast enough
I would suggest pulling the down pipes off of the exhaust manifolds in case of a mouse nest in the exhaust.& pull the plugs & put some oil in the cylinders to help temporarily raise the compression. Verify that it has not jumped time by setting timing to TDC.
Assuming this car has the 361 engine, it originally had 9.6:1 compression when new, according to the Motor’s manual. It was trying, but I would suspect vacuum leaks, mixed with the low compression, since you got full spark. I did notice, at the beginning, you were cranking with plugs out, and showed the rotor spinning. Maybe just a trick of the video, but it did not look like the points were opening correctly, like the lobes on the distributor were worn. Also occurs to me, may be worth running a scope down the intake runners; possibly a mouse nest plugging the manifold. Good luck, and don’t give up!
2 barrel carb means it’s a 332. No real difference, or outside identifiers, except that all of the 361s were 4 barrels. I just went through this with a ‘59 in a museum that I had to get running. 332 is still an Edsel engine. FE is an acronym for Ford/Edsel, after all. Hindsight 20/20, stamp the displacement in the damned block somewhere. Purt near 20 years of engines that are externally unidentifiable. Really?
Once I had the same problem on a 72 455 Olsdmobile Custom Cruiser. Pistons rings seemed to be all stucked. No compression pressure. I put some diesel in each cylinder and came back one week later ! This time the engine started and even got a decent idle quickly !
@@Kastrikin_S 20 cubic meters? That is A LOT of oil. In fact that is enough to submerge the entire car to more than twice the cars roof height with more than a foot of oil on each side of the car and a couple feet on both ends.
@@todddenio3200 20 кубических сантиметров. Стандартный медицинский шприц. У меня 2 старых мотора один 1.5 литра объёма, другой 1.7, оба запускал таким образом. Немного дымит при запуске, но потом проходит. Масло 2х тактное для мотоцикла.
So I suggest checking the cam timing. based on the low compression across the board I would suspect it has jumped time. and that could be why it was parked in the first place.
A buddy of mine had an early 70's LTD and it was getting progressively harder to start til finally he couldn't. He tried to fix it himself and found he'd spent too much money with no results. Finally he brought a mechanic who told him the timing chain needed replace. happily ever aft.
Wouldn't hurt to put a vacuum gauge on the intake to see what's going on with the drawing in air issue. Good luck and thank you for sharing this series with us.
On the Ford Solenoid, the two small terminals are labeled. One terminal supplies power to energize the Solenoid and the other terminal is used to supply a full 12 Volts to the ignition coil by passing the Ballast Resistor while cranking the engine. Over the years, I have seen various letters used, most common was R or I for the Bypass circuit and S for the Solenoid activation terminal.
@@Hanzyscure Oh I missed it. I was grilling at the time. Did they show us how they did it? All I know to do is cut the pipe off and shake it... lol If they did can someone comment time stamp?
On engines that have sat for years I always put some 90W gear oil in each cylinder and they start right up. After they run for a bit the rings free up good and the engines run fine. Has always worked for me. It even worked for me on an engine that had 10 and 20 lbs compression on most of the cylinders.
I would like to see the engine turning over much faster after soaking the cylinders with marvel mystery oil. This could be adjusting the timing, stronger and bigger battery, and or removing the starter motor and changing out the battery cables. Maybe remove both valve covers and soak down everything with penetrating oil as well. Looking forward to round 2 guys !!
You guys should do a "will it run and drive"? Even though you guys couldn't get it running, it was great to see your process of elimination and troubleshoot the thing. There are tons of videos like this and I still appreciate every one of them because I always learn something. Nice one!
Thanks guys. I'd say that you've done everything right. I'd hate for you to give up on it. I really want to know what's wrong, and I want to see it run.
Want it to run? Well it might have stuck rings with that compression, 2 ways around that, un-stick them, or put enough battery/better cables to crank it over fast enough to overcome the poor sealing. Failing that it has a jumped timing gear which would explain the poor compression... if that's the case you know there's only 1 fix for that. Second, you didn't verify the firing order is correct, or that the timing is set even close to properly.
Ck for a clogged exhaust, I've seen glogges on the exhaust not let the engine put from the intake side. Also put some engine restore in each plug hole for a day or so, then speed it over very fast [ fresh batteries, I've used 24volts] compression should come back up a little bit. Rings are stuck to the pistons. See if you can rig up a glow plug an put down in the cylinders the heat the pistons and Rings and cylinders up to around 150 or so . If the timing is good it will start.
I don't recall you guys checking vacuum. You were guessing in terms of draw: I would hook up a vacuum gauge and see how much you have. That answers the draw question. Next, see how the needle behaves. If it's super erratic, something is mechanically broken. If it's just weak, then you're going to have to chase vacuum leaks. I like the idea you had with the intake; possibly check gaskets. Regarding weak spark: I remember you replaced plugs and coil, but did you do wires and such too? Eliminate all possibilities with the ignition. If I had to guess: this is probably a combination of issues rather than a silver bullet.
Well that car doesn't want to hummmm . The car doesn't look all that bad. I did see the whole body . I think it's worth saving. Maybe some body see this and rescue it. Love your videos guys.
Timing. Find your number one TDC and see how things line up at the distributor. Go several rotations and check again for any change. Also, don't assume that rotor (or points for that matter) are correct for the car. No doubt, people of been in there, mucking about before you fellas, so anything is possible. I had a Cutlass in the shop once that had a rotor that wobbled on the distributor shaft. That thing had us chasing our tales for a while, until we figured it out. Long experience has taught me to assume nothing and check EVERYTHING. Verify, verify, verify.
We had a '58 Corsair with the 410 CID engine when I was a kid. Dad bought it in '60 from a doctor at the VA in Temple, TX (Dad was an RN there) that bought it new and wanted to get rid of it cheap due to some recurring issues and the bad rap Edsels had. Grandpa ran a trucking company and Dad learned to mechanic at a very young age. It didn't take much to correct the issues. The 410 was a very strong engine for the time and that Edsel would fly!
My dad also had the 58 Corsair. That thing moved so fast, Especially when the old man was pissed at something. I think I remember it had the 475 truck engine. Only thing I remember going wrong with it was it would vapour lock at a higher elevation in the summer. I loved that car.
@@DrexProjects Dad had the same problem and installed an electronic fuel pump and pressure regulator (they were separate units back then) and fixed that issue.
I got an old 390 running in a Thunderbird. I did the same process you guys did. I put new spark plug wires on. You will lose power on old spark plug wires. Replacing them improved the spark in my case. I also had low compression readings but not as low as yours. I was in the 70 to 80 range across all 8 cylinders. I mixed ATF and diesel fluid together and put it down each cylinder. After letting it sit a few days, the compression was 100 to 110 on the engine. I changed the oil with some high mileage synthetic and put 100 octane fuel in the tank. I did replace the fuel tank and lines to the carb. After that it started up and ran okay. The carb has since been rebuilt and it runs flawlessly. New brakes, brake lines, and tires and it moves down the road and is good enough to drive around a bit. The car was last plated in 1978 and I got it running again in 2015.
This is a great series guys, very informative! Unfortunately I don’t have any suggested solutions, but I do hope you guys figure this one out for the sake of everyone’s learning.
It's still nice to see a failure and the process of troubleshooting. It happends more often that not. I would have liked to have seen some oil down the cylinders and a re-test on the compression. Honestly, I'd like to see it run.
Maybe the exhaust is plugged and not letting the engine breath properly? Or maybe even kinked closed? Seen that happen on another revival channel before. Also if a spider got down in the intake and made a spider web across the intake ports, fuel air mixtures won’t pass thru the web. I see this a lot on gas fired furnaces. Maybe it translates over to this as well? Looking forward to the next video with an answer, as I’m sure you’ll figure it out!
I was thinking plugged exhaust myself I had that happen before so it could be a mouse made a house in the pipe and is not allowing it to breathe like it should.
Every engine is an air pump. It feels like if it can't evacuate air it can't make compression, and if something has plugged up the exhaust by dying in there it might be worth cracking the manifolds loose or drilling a hole high up the exhaust to see if that helps. It would help explain why you weren't getting much draw and a lot of mist through the crank case if there's nowhere for the gas to go
How did you confirm that the exhaust is clear? I’ve had rodents (I live rurally) cause lots of issues on my modern daily drivers, so imagine what they could do to a car sitting for decades. Seems like there could be years worth of nests all along the exhaust system. Seems the only way to confirm that a blocked exhaust is not the culprit is by removing the exhaust pipes from the exhaust manifolds…
What I was thinking. Are you sure the exhaust is clear. To my ear it sounds like it's blocked, maybe a collapsed muffler. I've seen that before and can be hard to spot until you drop the pipes.
Check the exhaust it must be plugged or crushed. You won't have enough Vacuum if it cannot evacuate or exhaust each cylinder. Open the exhaust or seawall and I bet that old 332 will start
A fe block 352 or 335 ,I like the way you guys attack the first start and do the right checks points and all your videos are definitely worth watching, How do I know ,I;m not yelling at you, you guys are good thank you for me not having to yell at you .Time to 24 volt the starter
I love the comment about putting the 80/90 oil in to gain compression. Also, I have had many Ford FE engines and your timing needs to be further over toward the thermostat housing and I have seen some other TH-camrs hook 24 V for a little bit to get them started. Another great video and I can’t wait to see it run. Because I know that it can :-)
Closing statement, . .the shop is 2 miles away ! You have a trailer, you have a shop, you have a tow vehicle. Get up, Get out & git U'r werk done ! That for sure is the MEL series motor. Maybe not as reliable as the FE's. I like the others suspect the timing drive train. Like Mr. Pickett maybe even the points can't be dwell set properly. Certainly the shop has a vacuum gage ? Cheers.
The styling on these cars is so unique. It’d be prohibitive to get cars built like that today which is why preserving and restoring them is a great idea.
Try swinging the spark plug wire to backfire through the carb, good indication that there is ignition in the cylinders. Gear oil into the combustion chamber does loosen the compression rings.
Well, you did everything I could think of, several times the next "check" was exactly what I sad to the screen as you were going along. No real suggestions with such low Compression, other than maybe as you said, pulling the intake and cheeking for vacuum leaks, and possibly a smoke test? Always fun guys, Thanks.
U guys should definitely fully restore this car. She is a beauty that still has a lot of life in it. Its savable. Remove the rust and rust protect it the prime it and de sanitize the entire interior ❤would love to see a future video on that. 😊
Couple quick things Add oil to a cylinder and retest compression if it goes up its ring if it dosent its valve sealing issue. If compression goes up oil alp cylinders to raise compression to fire it off. Spark still seems little weak possibly points adjustment slightly off. Maybe replace ground cable too see if you can get it turning over faster too. You can check for voltage drop across ground while cranking see how much your loosing under load.
I was so excited to see an Edsel and so disappointed when you could not start it. I do hope you will try again and even restore this iconic car! It would make a great project and be fun to watch.
Next step? Crank the engine backward by HAND and see how many degrees of turning it takes before the distributor rotor starts to turn. If it's excessive, it has probably jumped time which would explain the evenly reduced compression. If it has, close the hood and let it rust in peace!
Had the same thing happened to my 70 cuda back in the 90s. Took a running motor out of it and let it sit fir about 6 months. After I reinstalled it, it just wouldn't fire and had about the same compression readings you guys had. Old mechanic squirted some oil in it and that brought up the compression numbers by 20-25 lbs and ran like a champ afterward.
A couple of months ago, my brother purchased a 1959 Edsel Corsair, just like the one you are working on, 4 dr., green, 332 FE motor. This car was running and driving when he got it. After 3 or 4 weeks, the car was nor running as good, and finally would not start at all. Unfortunately, he couldn't adjust the timing because the distributor was seized in the block. After checking several items, my brother determined the carburetor was part of the problem, so he ordered a new carb. One of the other issues was a weak spark. I suggested to him to put electronic ignition in it. The first thought was to get the distributor broke loose and put in a Pertronics or similar distributor. Then I suggested the he order a Capacitor Discharge Ignition, or electronic ignition that would drop in without removing the distributor. After installing the new carb, the car still would not start. After installing the electronic ignition parts into the existing distributor, the engine fired up and has been running great. He drives this car often with his family. If I remember correct, this engine did not have real good compression either, but does run real good. Back in the 70's i purchased a Capacitor Discharge Ignition, for my 327 Chevy, which made a huge difference back then. Hope this helps.
I would agree that you should check the cam timing. If one of the valves are open on compression stroke, you won't see compression. That may also affect the fuel draw at the carb. I thought it curious that the oil pumped up instantly with the drill but hadn't before with all the engine cranking. Is the rotor turning?
I think the rings are probably stuck . You need to crank it faster and put oil in the cylinders. I noticed the green mold on cables , that could cause resistance in the starting circuit. Also the rotor doesn't look like the correct one for that engine, maybe the air gap between rotor and cap is too large and causing low spark . Just some random thoughts , hope this helps . Enjoying the series . Good Luck!
I may have missed some details, of your efforts, but what I would have done, is try ensure that the cylinder that has the compression, is the one the receives the spark, at the same moment. One table spoon of gear oil down the carburetor should bump up the compression for starting purposes, ..and will slowly burn away as the running engine heats up. I do not know, if cam timing can be out by a tooth or two. If the motor is externally balanced, the vibration damper could be damaged, causing timing marks to be off by few degrees. Checking the timing marks, by confirmation of top dead center, of the number one piston, can prove the marks right or wrong. To confirm can timing, the overlap of the valves should occur when the piston is at the top, which can be seen at the end of the exhaust stroke, and the start of the induction stroke.
If I were you guys I'd get a 5' or 7'pipe and run a chain thru it and pull start this car, even if it's an automatic transmission, the transmission will engage at after 25-30 mph or so, be sure to put it low gear with ignition on the on position, it should start. My dad and I did this to both of his 58 EDSELS, Pacer and Citation, at the time we didn't know both cars had stuffed mice nest in the mufflers, the cars started like yours almost did but not quite, and when they did start, the manifolds we're cherry red as the engines were running, good luck.👌💪👍😉
The only thing left to do with that engine is to remove it, strip it right down, clean/hone the piston bores, replace any broken piston rings and then rebuild it.
I’m kind of bummed you didn’t get it running. That is a head scratcher. The best suggestion I’ve seen is that time camshaft timing is off. That’s more than an in-the-field effort to check/fix. While Edsels have a reputation, that car looks like it’s worth saving. I say pull it out of the field and get it running proper. 👍🏻
Add motor oil to the cylinders to bump up the compression some then hit it with 24 volts to spin up the motor faster. You said the starter was smoking any ways so you would not hurt it much.
Always prime the oiling system by using a hand pump full of oil inserted into the oil pressure sending unit port. Also make sure the transmission is in park. Washed down cylinders from too much fuel can be fixed by dumping oil into the intake. Good luck and God Bless.
I'm glad you published this video because I have a feeling that most "will it run" videos where the car doesn't run never get posted. As far as suggestions you might just try it again in a few days. You never know it might decide to run. I know it isn't a living thing that decides just not to start one day and to start another day but you did put a lot of gas down the carburetor.
Pour some oil down the cylinders to seal up the rings, then try it. It’s the only thing left before pulling the intake manifold. She’ll smoke like a depressed stock broker though when it fires.
Don't know what else to tell you, but I would take it home and find out. I didn't think it spun the motor over fast enough for my likening. I grew up with cars of this era. Wish you the best.
Check the timing chain. The car is sitting for a reason. If you have spark, compression, and fuel, the next thing on the list is timing (ignition and camshaft). Those old chains were notorious for wearing out and jumping tooth.
Love your videos . look forward each week for a new one. This might be a great project car to take back to the shop and restore. That would be great !!!
I think you just don't have enough compression. Likely the rings have just lost tension. You might try fogging the engine with Marvel and come back in a few weeks. Maybe the rings are just seized and that will allow them to release. Other than that I don't know.
The distributor didn't "jump", it dropped as it engaged the oil pump drive. Which means your distributor rotor moved and is probably way off time, compared to where you thought you had it 'set'. Oil the cylinders to get compression up, set the timing CORRECTLY and it'll fire. And please stop using the starter for 30+ seconds continuously. You're only burning it up.
Early timing advanced cars that ran on vacuum are touchy just a tiny bit off will cause it not to run. What's happening is the valve timing is a little off but only because of the vacuum advance. My suggestion if it were me get those cylinders pumped up a bit with some marvel and you'll get ton more compression find top dead center and make sure the rotor points to number one dead on it.Itll run for sure once you get some heat in those cylinders those rings will loosen...THat edsel is in nice shape for the year. So to make it simple put some thin oil in the cylinders and turn the distributor counter clockwise 15 to 20° That car is worth the work saving .. You guys can get it running I'm sure of it
My family had 3x 1960 Edsel when i was growing up. Grew up going to car shows around Pacific Northwest, mostly Rod Run to the end of the world, and the Portland expo center. One was super rare, only 1/31. My dad couldn't continue maintaining them though later in the late 90s, due to disabilities, so we sold them. 1958 have them super bad reputation because all kinds of failures. 1960 they tried to recover, but was already dead line of cars. They had shop options years before mustang, so it's a misconception that mustang was their first car to have lots of options.
I think it has stuck rings. That engine was super clean inside, so I find it unlikely that it had a lot of blowby when it was parked. Maybe try giving it 24 volts and see if spinning it faster will build enough compression to make it run? Either that, or squirt some ATF or Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinders and let it soak for a few days. It may be a bit ugly, but it is still a cool car, especially in that color scheme. I would love to see it live again!
My Edsel did the exact same thing. I had bad compression on all cylinders also.I put oil down the cylinders and waited about six weeks and it started almost instantly. Still had the same tick on the passenger side lifters. It runs really nice now.
I didn't see you check the cam timing. I'd start by making sure the timing chain hasn't slipped; and verify tdc with the valve cover off instead of relying on the damper mark to get the distributor in the right place. I thought about exhaust restriction, I heard you say it was clear, but mice in the manifolds maybe?
Davin, why didn't you take out the 4 bolts and lay that hood back over the windshield instead of fighting it? Agree with comments below to drop a few teaspoons of oil down the cylinders to unstick rings and help with compression. Nice clinic boys. These old starters are tougher than I thought, I would have thought it burned up with those long starts. Thanks for posting !
So, from here it seemed like the biggest issue, was that it wasnt being a very good air pump. That could be compression, or could be obstruction at either end. Did you check for a banana in your tailpipe?
Love the comments so far! Keep the suggestions coming! Definitely feels like we should take another crack at it this spring!
maybe you checked it but consider timing and or firing order?
So what are you doing with these cars? What happened to all the projects at the shop that you were milking are you still going to be in there doing those projects?
@@dermottbarrett764 I agree with Mr. Barrett here you never brought #1 to TDC and checked your timing mark or ran your firing order? you also said at one point that the valves where not fully opening which my first thought was collapsed lifters?
Put 24V on it!
Need a jumper vehicle, I don't think your giving it enough juice
Definitely worth pulling back to the shop to go into it further. They might be ugly, but they are pretty rare and worth a rustoration. I vote SAVE IT.
Car looks fairly sold for an Edsel.
Fairly Sold? Don't you mean solid? These old Edsel's are getting harder to find answers deserves another shot..
The edsel is a beautiful car
I have a black 59 edsel ranger. The 292 is missing parts, the transmission has the pan gone. I am going to go with a 289 C4 I purchased in another car.
Granted, the 58 looks like it has a draft horse collar strapped on the front but the 59 is good looking imao
I think oiling the cylinders to get the rings to free and bump compression and trying to get a better connection to the starter would be worth a try as I didn't sound like it was spinning fast enough
I agree, not enough electricity to turn that motor over properly!!
I agree with this guy!
Agree, try this
you got it right, rings are stuck put diesel in the cylinders let a set a while and that pig will start
Yep, it needs a wet compression test
I would suggest pulling the down pipes off of the exhaust manifolds in case of a mouse nest in the exhaust.& pull the plugs & put some oil in the cylinders to help temporarily raise the compression. Verify that it has not jumped time by setting timing to TDC.
Assuming this car has the 361 engine, it originally had 9.6:1 compression when new, according to the Motor’s manual. It was trying, but I would suspect vacuum leaks, mixed with the low compression, since you got full spark. I did notice, at the beginning, you were cranking with plugs out, and showed the rotor spinning. Maybe just a trick of the video, but it did not look like the points were opening correctly, like the lobes on the distributor were worn. Also occurs to me, may be worth running a scope down the intake runners; possibly a mouse nest plugging the manifold. Good luck, and don’t give up!
2 barrel carb means it’s a 332. No real difference, or outside identifiers, except that all of the 361s were 4 barrels. I just went through this with a ‘59 in a museum that I had to get running. 332 is still an Edsel engine. FE is an acronym for Ford/Edsel, after all. Hindsight 20/20, stamp the displacement in the damned block somewhere. Purt near 20 years of engines that are externally unidentifiable. Really?
A 59 with 2 barrel should be 332
valves not sealin.
Don't leave it like this, you have to get it running!
Once I had the same problem on a 72 455 Olsdmobile Custom Cruiser. Pistons rings seemed to be all stucked. No compression pressure. I put some diesel in each cylinder and came back one week later ! This time the engine started and even got a decent idle quickly !
Diesel, most affordable penetration fluid.
You need to oil the cylinders down really well to bump up the compression.
Or maybe stop talking so much. That engine was willing it's own death
Exact same issue I had with my Edsel. Just put some oil down the cylinders and let it sit for about six weeks and I got it to run after 40 years!
Парень дело говорит. Мотор сухой. Нужно 2х тактное масло в цилиндры налить по 20 кубов, покрутить без свечей, потом пробовать завести.
@@Kastrikin_S 20 cubic meters? That is A LOT of oil. In fact that is enough to submerge the entire car to more than twice the cars roof height with more than a foot of oil on each side of the car and a couple feet on both ends.
@@todddenio3200 20 кубических сантиметров. Стандартный медицинский шприц. У меня 2 старых мотора один 1.5 литра объёма, другой 1.7, оба запускал таким образом. Немного дымит при запуске, но потом проходит. Масло 2х тактное для мотоцикла.
So I suggest checking the cam timing. based on the low compression across the board I would suspect it has jumped time. and that could be why it was parked in the first place.
That would B My guess
I agree !
Yeah, if the chain skipped a little, It would not run.
A buddy of mine had an early 70's LTD and it was getting progressively harder to start til finally he couldn't. He tried to fix it himself and found he'd spent too much money with no results. Finally he brought a mechanic who told him the timing chain needed replace. happily ever aft.
you guys are all right on-timing chain. I know that sound! It acts like it wants to start, but never will.
Wouldn't hurt to put a vacuum gauge on the intake to see what's going on with the drawing in air issue. Good luck and thank you for sharing this series with us.
On the Ford Solenoid, the two small terminals are labeled. One terminal supplies power to energize the Solenoid and the other terminal is used to supply a full 12 Volts to the ignition coil by passing the Ballast Resistor while cranking the engine. Over the years, I have seen various letters used, most common was R or I for the Bypass circuit and S for the Solenoid activation terminal.
Blocked exhaust?
@@iceman22m They said they checked for that.
Mice nest in the exhaust pipe
@@Hanzyscure Oh I missed it. I was grilling at the time. Did they show us how they did it? All I know to do is cut the pipe off and shake it... lol If they did can someone comment time stamp?
It has been My experience that if a Ford for any reason won't turn over fast enough it won't start
I bet the exhaust is stuffed full of nests😉
No air out, no air in👍
agreed !!
On engines that have sat for years I always put some 90W gear oil in each cylinder and they start right up. After they run for a bit the rings free up good and the engines run fine. Has always worked for me. It even worked for me on an engine that had 10 and 20 lbs compression on most of the cylinders.
Drag it back to the shop and find out whats wrong!! Would be a great episode!
Best host in the automotive world. He always explains and makes it a very awesome video. Legend. Thanks for the hard work D!
I would like to see the engine turning over much faster after soaking the cylinders with marvel mystery oil. This could be adjusting the timing, stronger and bigger battery, and or removing the starter motor and changing out the battery cables. Maybe remove both valve covers and soak down everything with penetrating oil as well. Looking forward to round 2 guys !!
You guys should do a "will it run and drive"? Even though you guys couldn't get it running, it was great to see your process of elimination and troubleshoot the thing. There are tons of videos like this and I still appreciate every one of them because I always learn something. Nice one!
Appreciate the comment! Glad you're learning! That's what we aim for. Thanks!
Thanks guys. I'd say that you've done everything right. I'd hate for you to give up on it. I really want to know what's wrong, and I want to see it run.
One of the first things I would have done was put a 50/50 mixture of ATF and diesel fule and let it set for a few hours before trying to starting it.
Want it to run? Well it might have stuck rings with that compression, 2 ways around that, un-stick them, or put enough battery/better cables to crank it over fast enough to overcome the poor sealing. Failing that it has a jumped timing gear which would explain the poor compression... if that's the case you know there's only 1 fix for that. Second, you didn't verify the firing order is correct, or that the timing is set even close to properly.
BECAUSE it is an Edsel...I think it needs to go to the shop for a rebuild...after all it is a kinda rare beastie!
Ck for a clogged exhaust, I've seen glogges on the exhaust not let the engine put from the intake side. Also put some engine restore in each plug hole for a day or so, then speed it over very fast [ fresh batteries, I've used 24volts] compression should come back up a little bit. Rings are stuck to the pistons. See if you can rig up a glow plug an put down in the cylinders the heat the pistons and Rings and cylinders up to around 150 or so . If the timing is good it will start.
I don't recall you guys checking vacuum. You were guessing in terms of draw:
I would hook up a vacuum gauge and see how much you have. That answers the draw question. Next, see how the needle behaves. If it's super erratic, something is mechanically broken. If it's just weak, then you're going to have to chase vacuum leaks. I like the idea you had with the intake; possibly check gaskets.
Regarding weak spark: I remember you replaced plugs and coil, but did you do wires and such too? Eliminate all possibilities with the ignition.
If I had to guess: this is probably a combination of issues rather than a silver bullet.
Well that car doesn't want to hummmm . The car doesn't look all that bad. I did see the whole body . I think it's worth saving. Maybe some body see this and rescue it. Love your videos guys.
Timing. Find your number one TDC and see how things line up at the distributor. Go several rotations and check again for any change. Also, don't assume that rotor (or points for that matter) are correct for the car. No doubt, people of been in there, mucking about before you fellas, so anything is possible.
I had a Cutlass in the shop once that had a rotor that wobbled on the distributor shaft. That thing had us chasing our tales for a while, until we figured it out. Long experience has taught me to assume nothing and check EVERYTHING. Verify, verify, verify.
Sound advice! Based on yours and many others comments, we'll definitely be going back in the spring to see if we can get it to run!
We had a '58 Corsair with the 410 CID engine when I was a kid. Dad bought it in '60 from a doctor at the VA in Temple, TX (Dad was an RN there) that bought it new and wanted to get rid of it cheap due to some recurring issues and the bad rap Edsels had. Grandpa ran a trucking company and Dad learned to mechanic at a very young age. It didn't take much to correct the issues. The 410 was a very strong engine for the time and that Edsel would fly!
My dad also had the 58 Corsair. That thing moved so fast, Especially when the old man was pissed at something. I think I remember it had the 475 truck engine. Only thing I remember going wrong with it was it would vapour lock at a higher elevation in the summer. I loved that car.
Im not positive as my memory isnt perfect but in 58 I think the 410 was 335 hp or was it 385 hp. Either way they were powerhouses
@@todddenio3200 I think they were 335 HP. THAT WAS A LOT FOR 58!
@@DrexProjects Dad had the same problem and installed an electronic fuel pump and pressure regulator (they were separate units back then) and fixed that issue.
I love the look of the Ford Edsel. Definitely something I dream about owning one day.
Same here.
Why just dream about one day owning one? not that expensive compared to other classic cars. Even cheaper if you can weld and have some basic tools..
Where were you in 1959 when Ford couldn’t give them away?
@@mikeg6042 Two years before I hot the earth.
This happens to be a Edsel Ranger, not a Ford Edsel or as some millennials call the Edsel Fords..
I got an old 390 running in a Thunderbird. I did the same process you guys did. I put new spark plug wires on. You will lose power on old spark plug wires. Replacing them improved the spark in my case. I also had low compression readings but not as low as yours. I was in the 70 to 80 range across all 8 cylinders. I mixed ATF and diesel fluid together and put it down each cylinder. After letting it sit a few days, the compression was 100 to 110 on the engine. I changed the oil with some high mileage synthetic and put 100 octane fuel in the tank. I did replace the fuel tank and lines to the carb.
After that it started up and ran okay. The carb has since been rebuilt and it runs flawlessly. New brakes, brake lines, and tires and it moves down the road and is good enough to drive around a bit.
The car was last plated in 1978 and I got it running again in 2015.
This is a great series guys, very informative! Unfortunately I don’t have any suggested solutions, but I do hope you guys figure this one out for the sake of everyone’s learning.
We're all learning all the time! Lots of good comments so far. We'll certainly go back and try some of the ideas!
Good luck getting it running! In the meantime, I love the sound of that starter! Always loved listening to those old Ford starters cranking!
I’m really loving these videos! Much love from Australia
It's still nice to see a failure and the process of troubleshooting. It happends more often that not. I would have liked to have seen some oil down the cylinders and a re-test on the compression. Honestly, I'd like to see it run.
Maybe the exhaust is plugged and not letting the engine breath properly? Or maybe even kinked closed? Seen that happen on another revival channel before. Also if a spider got down in the intake and made a spider web across the intake ports, fuel air mixtures won’t pass thru the web. I see this a lot on gas fired furnaces. Maybe it translates over to this as well? Looking forward to the next video with an answer, as I’m sure you’ll figure it out!
First thing that came to my mind as well. That would explain the low intake draft and blowback into the crankcase.
Mouse nest up the exhaust !
I was thinking plugged exhaust myself I had that happen before so it could be a mouse made a house in the pipe and is not allowing it to breathe like it should.
maybe easier to cut off exhaust with saber saw from downpipe + add oil in cylinders.
It's probably quite a restrictive muffler in the first place - luxury car = low noise.
So probably wouldn't take much rus -t or mice - to clog it !
Every engine is an air pump. It feels like if it can't evacuate air it can't make compression, and if something has plugged up the exhaust by dying in there it might be worth cracking the manifolds loose or drilling a hole high up the exhaust to see if that helps. It would help explain why you weren't getting much draw and a lot of mist through the crank case if there's nowhere for the gas to go
How did you confirm that the exhaust is clear? I’ve had rodents (I live rurally) cause lots of issues on my modern daily drivers, so imagine what they could do to a car sitting for decades. Seems like there could be years worth of nests all along the exhaust system. Seems the only way to confirm that a blocked exhaust is not the culprit is by removing the exhaust pipes from the exhaust manifolds…
What I was thinking. Are you sure the exhaust is clear. To my ear it sounds like it's blocked, maybe a collapsed muffler. I've seen that before and can be hard to spot until you drop the pipes.
I had a couple cars that had a two wall exhaust pipe where the inner wall separated and blocked off the exhaust. That one ate our lunch.
Check the exhaust it must be plugged or crushed. You won't have enough Vacuum if it cannot evacuate or exhaust each cylinder. Open the exhaust or seawall and I bet that old 332 will start
Definitely not a fuel issue. I would play with the timing and run another ground wire to the body or starter. Plus a much stronger battery.
Definitely looks like a fe and not a mel . Take it back to the shop make a 445 with some trick flow heads and put a c6 in it have some fun
The 361 is an FE motor. The 410 is a MEL just like the 383 and the 430 also..
Timing chain jumped 1 or a few teeth. This would cause low compression across all cylinders and make it almost impossible to run.
A fe block 352 or 335 ,I like the way you guys attack the first start and do the right checks points and all your videos are definitely worth watching, How do I know ,I;m not yelling at you, you guys are good thank you for me not having to yell at you .Time to 24 volt the starter
I love the comment about putting the 80/90 oil in to gain compression. Also, I have had many Ford FE engines and your timing needs to be further over toward the thermostat housing and I have seen some other TH-camrs hook 24 V for a little bit to get them started. Another great video and I can’t wait to see it run. Because I know that it can :-)
80w90 gear oil is roughly a 40-50 weight in motor oil. The ratings are different numbers but the actual viscosity is not 80 compared to motor oil.
Closing statement, . .the shop is 2 miles away ! You have a trailer, you have a shop, you have a tow vehicle. Get up, Get out & git U'r werk done ! That for sure is the MEL series motor. Maybe not as reliable as the FE's. I like the others suspect the timing drive train. Like Mr. Pickett maybe even the points can't be dwell set properly. Certainly the shop has a vacuum gage ? Cheers.
The styling on these cars is so unique. It’d be prohibitive to get cars built like that today which is why preserving and restoring them is a great idea.
I always liked the look of the Edsels, I don't know why they get so much hate.
Edsels are Cool Cars! They just need lots of Love
I am with you on the Edsel cars. I dig the 1959 Edsel Corsair design
I’m in love with that car, the dashboard is so cool. I’d love to polish it just for the gratification. She’s a beauty!!!
Piston rings are sized to the pistons. Put some Trans fluid in the cylinders and let them soak. The rings are letting compression in to the crankcase.
Try swinging the spark plug wire to backfire through the carb, good indication that there is ignition in the cylinders. Gear oil into the combustion chamber does loosen the compression rings.
Well, you did everything I could think of, several times the next "check" was exactly what I sad to the screen as you were going along. No real suggestions with such low Compression, other than maybe as you said, pulling the intake and cheeking for vacuum leaks, and possibly a smoke test? Always fun guys, Thanks.
May want to check the play in the timing chain.
U guys should definitely fully restore this car. She is a beauty that still has a lot of life in it. Its savable. Remove the rust and rust protect it the prime it and de sanitize the entire interior ❤would love to see a future video on that. 😊
well this makes me appreciate VGG.
Couple quick things
Add oil to a cylinder and retest compression if it goes up its ring if it dosent its valve sealing issue. If compression goes up oil alp cylinders to raise compression to fire it off.
Spark still seems little weak possibly points adjustment slightly off.
Maybe replace ground cable too see if you can get it turning over faster too. You can check for voltage drop across ground while cranking see how much your loosing under load.
Maybe try a heavier oil in the cylinders, 10-30 or so to get those rings to seal a bit better?
I like that you will go back. I would like to see the mystery solved.
I was so excited to see an Edsel and so disappointed when you could not start it. I do hope you will try again and even restore this iconic car! It would make a great project and be fun to watch.
Next step? Crank the engine backward by HAND and see how many degrees of turning it takes before the distributor rotor starts to turn. If it's excessive, it has probably jumped time which would explain the evenly reduced compression. If it has, close the hood and let it rust in peace!
Sorry to see it not fire. Good attempt men. Thanks for sharing! 💯
Had the same thing happened to my 70 cuda back in the 90s. Took a running motor out of it and let it sit fir about 6 months. After I reinstalled it, it just wouldn't fire and had about the same compression readings you guys had. Old mechanic squirted some oil in it and that brought up the compression numbers by 20-25 lbs and ran like a champ afterward.
I think it would have been good to try putting some oil in the cylinders to see if you could het the compression up a little. Just my thoughts.
This sub 20 second intro is so refreshing. Just straight to the show.
A couple of months ago, my brother purchased a 1959 Edsel Corsair, just like the one you are working on, 4 dr., green, 332 FE motor. This car was running and driving when he got it. After 3 or 4 weeks, the car was nor running as good, and finally would not start at all. Unfortunately, he couldn't adjust the timing because the distributor was seized in the block. After checking several items, my brother determined the carburetor was part of the problem, so he ordered a new carb. One of the other issues was a weak spark. I suggested to him to put electronic ignition in it. The first thought was to get the distributor broke loose and put in a Pertronics or similar distributor. Then I suggested the he order a Capacitor Discharge Ignition, or electronic ignition that would drop in without removing the distributor. After installing the new carb, the car still would not start. After installing the electronic ignition parts into the existing distributor, the engine fired up and has been running great. He drives this car often with his family. If I remember correct, this engine did not have real good compression either, but does run real good. Back in the 70's i purchased a Capacitor Discharge Ignition, for my 327 Chevy, which made a huge difference back then. Hope this helps.
I would agree that you should check the cam timing. If one of the valves are open on compression stroke, you won't see compression. That may also affect the fuel draw at the carb. I thought it curious that the oil pumped up instantly with the drill but hadn't before with all the engine cranking. Is the rotor turning?
I got nothing Davin. You did everything I would do. However, it is an Edsel, maybe take to the shop. Another project. 👍
I think the rings are probably stuck . You need to crank it faster and put oil in the cylinders. I noticed the green mold on cables , that could cause resistance in the starting circuit. Also the rotor doesn't look like the correct one for that engine, maybe the air gap between rotor and cap is too large and causing low spark . Just some random thoughts , hope this helps . Enjoying the series . Good Luck!
I may have missed some details, of your efforts, but what I would have done, is try ensure that the cylinder that has the compression, is the one the receives the spark, at the same moment.
One table spoon of gear oil down the carburetor should bump up the compression for starting purposes, ..and will slowly burn away as the running engine heats up.
I do not know, if cam timing can be out by a tooth or two.
If the motor is externally balanced, the vibration damper could be damaged, causing timing marks to be off by few degrees.
Checking the timing marks, by confirmation of top dead center, of the number one piston, can prove the marks right or wrong.
To confirm can timing, the overlap of the valves should occur when the piston is at the top, which can be seen at the end of the exhaust stroke, and the start of the induction stroke.
I'll take it! Timing sounds off or it just needs more encouragement. Check how much slack in timing chain.
If I were you guys I'd get a 5' or 7'pipe and run a chain thru it and pull start this car, even if it's an automatic transmission, the transmission will engage at after 25-30 mph or so, be sure to put it low gear with ignition on the on position, it should start.
My dad and I did this to both of his 58 EDSELS, Pacer and Citation, at the time we didn't know both cars had stuffed mice nest in the mufflers, the cars started like yours almost did but not quite, and when they did start, the manifolds we're cherry red as the engines were running, good luck.👌💪👍😉
The only thing left to do with that engine is to remove it, strip it right down, clean/hone the piston bores, replace any broken piston rings and then rebuild it.
VGG wouldn't quit like this.
lol He's a good guy. These guys seem good too, interested in what the problem ends up being hope they do another video on it
Another thing on led Fords is they jump time and need new chain. I had a 58 Edsel with 352 V8, ran pretty good.
Great series and great work. Its very enjoyable hope we get back to shop to see more rebuilds as well. All the best.
I’m kind of bummed you didn’t get it running. That is a head scratcher. The best suggestion I’ve seen is that time camshaft timing is off. That’s more than an in-the-field effort to check/fix. While Edsels have a reputation, that car looks like it’s worth saving. I say pull it out of the field and get it running proper. 👍🏻
Add motor oil to the cylinders to bump up the compression some then hit it with 24 volts to spin up the motor faster. You said the starter was smoking any ways so you would not hurt it much.
Always prime the oiling system by using a hand pump full of oil inserted into the oil pressure sending unit port. Also make sure the transmission is in park. Washed down cylinders from too much fuel can be fixed by dumping oil into the intake. Good luck and God Bless.
You guys need a borescope to look in the cylinders, that will definitely give you more answers than guessing
I'm glad you published this video because I have a feeling that most "will it run" videos where the car doesn't run never get posted. As far as suggestions you might just try it again in a few days. You never know it might decide to run. I know it isn't a living thing that decides just not to start one day and to start another day but you did put a lot of gas down the carburetor.
Holy crap, I love this episode. A freakin' Edsel!! Those things are crazy!!!
Timing jumped one tooth, even compression but low. Got parked for that reason I bet. Should do a field repair video
Good thought! ✍️📝
take the plugs out of the rest of the cylinders to strain your battery and starter as much when doing the compresiion test.
clean fuel pump, tank (cause deposit ) going in carburator , in all case it worth to be restored . courage guys !
Pour some oil down the cylinders to seal up the rings, then try it. It’s the only thing left before pulling the intake manifold. She’ll smoke like a depressed stock broker though when it fires.
Drag it back to the shop! We gotta know what was wrong with it - it's like you've stopped in the middle of the story.
I know right? Makes me want to un-subscribe. But I probably won't.
Don't know what else to tell you, but I would take it home and find out. I didn't think it spun the motor over fast enough for my likening. I grew up with cars of this era. Wish you the best.
Check the timing chain. The car is sitting for a reason. If you have spark, compression, and fuel, the next thing on the list is timing (ignition and camshaft). Those old chains were notorious for wearing out and jumping tooth.
Love your videos . look forward each week for a new one. This might be a great project car to take back to the shop and restore. That would be great !!!
Turn the distributor to catch proper timing maybe? I didn't see that done unless it was off camera or I missed it.
Very cool video regardless. 👍
Edsels are so sweet ! Perfect color too . I kinda want to buy it
I think you just don't have enough compression. Likely the rings have just lost tension. You might try fogging the engine with Marvel and come back in a few weeks. Maybe the rings are just seized and that will allow them to release. Other than that I don't know.
check position of the spark wires, fill some oil to the cylinders to increase compression
Wild guess It's been sitting there long enough for the camshaft and lifters to have rust on them not allowing any of the valves to close all the way
Possible plugged exhaust. Would explain the back flow through the carb.
The distributor didn't "jump", it dropped as it engaged the oil pump drive. Which means your distributor rotor moved and is probably way off time, compared to where you thought you had it 'set'. Oil the cylinders to get compression up, set the timing CORRECTLY and it'll fire. And please stop using the starter for 30+ seconds continuously. You're only burning it up.
Early timing advanced cars that ran on vacuum are touchy just a tiny bit off will cause it not to run. What's happening is the valve timing is a little off but only because of the vacuum advance. My suggestion if it were me get those cylinders pumped up a bit with some marvel and you'll get ton more compression find top dead center and make sure the rotor points to number one dead on it.Itll run for sure once you get some heat in those cylinders those rings will loosen...THat edsel is in nice shape for the year. So to make it simple put some thin oil in the cylinders and turn the distributor counter clockwise 15 to 20° That car is worth the work saving ..
You guys can get it running I'm sure of it
My family had 3x 1960 Edsel when i was growing up. Grew up going to car shows around Pacific Northwest, mostly Rod Run to the end of the world, and the Portland expo center. One was super rare, only 1/31. My dad couldn't continue maintaining them though later in the late 90s, due to disabilities, so we sold them. 1958 have them super bad reputation because all kinds of failures. 1960 they tried to recover, but was already dead line of cars. They had shop options years before mustang, so it's a misconception that mustang was their first car to have lots of options.
That's such a cool car, Davin. It's gotta run! It's increasingly rare every year that passes. There's one about 6 miles away from me. It's so sad.
I think it has stuck rings. That engine was super clean inside, so I find it unlikely that it had a lot of blowby when it was parked. Maybe try giving it 24 volts and see if spinning it faster will build enough compression to make it run? Either that, or squirt some ATF or Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinders and let it soak for a few days. It may be a bit ugly, but it is still a cool car, especially in that color scheme. I would love to see it live again!
Same ATF or Marvel Mystery Oil
My Edsel did the exact same thing. I had bad compression on all cylinders also.I put oil down the cylinders and waited about six weeks and it started almost instantly. Still had the same tick on the passenger side lifters. It runs really nice now.
I didn't see you check the cam timing. I'd start by making sure the timing chain hasn't slipped; and verify tdc with the valve cover off instead of relying on the damper mark to get the distributor in the right place. I thought about exhaust restriction, I heard you say it was clear, but mice in the manifolds maybe?
Davin, why didn't you take out the 4 bolts and lay that hood back over the windshield instead of fighting it? Agree with comments below to drop a few teaspoons of oil down the cylinders to unstick rings and help with compression. Nice clinic boys. These old starters are tougher than I thought, I would have thought it burned up with those long starts. Thanks for posting !
I dont think Ive ever enjoyed watching two grown men struggle more than i have in this video. Lol
Once an Edsel, always an Edsel 😉🍋🍋🍋
So, from here it seemed like the biggest issue, was that it wasnt being a very good air pump. That could be compression, or could be obstruction at either end. Did you check for a banana in your tailpipe?