So exactly like the Haas machines of 20-25 years ago, one of which i own. Decent performance, decent accuracy, very poorly designed down to a cost instead of up to a standard. Hey, at least they're sticking to tradition. Kudos to your honest review.
Thanks for the feedback, we have 9 Haas machines and for the most part they served us well. This one was not quite to our expectations. It is a different machine then our Okuma or Citizens but its also a different price point.
@@KreminIncManufacturing i use mine daily too. Never had issues with accuracy or performance, a workhorse indeed. Always having issues with stupid stuff like the ones on your video, disappointing for such an established brand to see they still exist.
Had our UMC750 only 5 months.Most of the time there where technicians crawling in and around it. When they finally picked it up again, no one from the HFO came. We loaded it onto the truck ourselves, with a rented forklift. Never heard back from either the HFO or Haas. We bought DMG Mori instead and never looked back. It wasn't even much more expensive, but the built quality, precision and features on that machine blows Haas out of the water. Will never buy a Haas again.
@@KreminIncManufacturingcheck out the swarf unlimited upgrades chip filter screens. We just installed one of their xl filter screen and it has solved our coolant issues
Your probe eye seems to be installed upside down. If you notice, the Renishaw logo is written both ways. Your Haas tech probably should have rotated it 180deg so that the cable goes directly up; thus avoiding any chips hanging on the cable.
I purchased a UMC500 in 2020 (covid machine) and it's bipolar. It's been the most productive machine in our shop and it's also had the most down time. We're fighting two issues: quality of design and quality of manufacturing. The biggest design issue is the chip management; lots of chips get past the conveyor and quickly build up in at the edges of the chip tray in the sump. If you don't keep the chips from building up, the coolant begins to overflow out of the chip tray. We have fabricated our own chip filter (to catch fines) and raised the walls of the chip tray. We have also made diverter wings to move the coolant flow towards the middle of the chip tray. No more overflowing coolant due to chip build up. The other major quality issues have been related to sloppy manufacturing and early component failures. Much has been covered under warranty but we've take big hits in down time. The B axis limit switch failed after 1 year and the took out the probe when the machine tried to home. There was a service access plug in the C axis casting that was missing. This allowed coolant to get in the casting under the vise and soak the electronics. Again, it was repaired under warranty. One week after the warranty expired, the spindle went out. Haas and our HFO took care of it under warranty. We had the exact same issue you showed with the pallet access door. No tolerance analysis was done on the placement of the door sensor. I've never had so much trouble with a new machine and we have purchased 7 from Haas so far. Haas seems to have the 'bang for the buck' portion of the CNC machine tool market dialed in. Haas machines have helped me build my business and I'm grateful for their service and products. That said, I'll have a hard decision to make if I ever consider purchasing another Haas product.
Thanks for the comments, we have another video that will be up in a week or two that goes through all the work the HFO did on the issues we outline in this video, they have stuck with us on trying to make it right. We also have an additional 7 Haas mills and 2 Haas lathes, so we made a commitment to the control, but I am with you - need to put a lot of thought into if we will be adding another one or going with something else.
You're a beta tester basically. Maybe now, 3 years after they released, they are close to selling a machine that they should have had sold you at the start. They basically scammed everyone with the "Reboot, everything is better" marketing, when in fact they were just looking for dumbasses to beta test their machine/screw over.
@@KreminIncManufacturing This wasn't my machine but a machine I recommended to the owner of a shop I was helping build. It had an extreme compounding thermal comp issue only on the Z axis. We were left for months waiting on a fix that never came in the roughly two years I was there. It never showed it's face until I was doing a very long surfacing operation in full 5. At one side the tool was cutting, and by the other end of the surface wasn't even touching the part.
we have a umc 500. not sure if its same problem or not but when we first got ours end of October was getting a lot of chips out where the coolant drains and building up in the drain area of the base where the conveyor sets inside the machine that would cause over flows in front of the machine. service tech was called in, right away says chips shouldn't getting in there. removed the conveyor, discovered some parts installed wrong at the factory. if you are standing at the operators door looking down at the conveyor you'll see some hex head bolts that holds a part shaped like angle iron with a real short leg on one side. the short leg is supposed to point up toward the bottom of casting to keep chips from from getting out of the conveyor. on our machine these pieces were upside down leaving a huge gap for chips to get into the drain. now we get very little chips out of the drain screen
Thanks for the info - we will check it out closer - I know the service techs have been out 3 times for the chips clogging the coolant flow but still haven’t fixed it
@@KreminIncManufacturing if you're familiar with the area i'm referring to where it transitions before the chips drop on to the belt. you shouldn't be able to your fingers up under there very far if those parts are installed correctly side note, he had told us to stay away from the high pressure flood coolant. more trouble than it was worth. LOL
I added a wash down subroutine to the 9853 program so every time I do a breakage check it washes the omp and tool. I also changed the broken tool alarm from a 3000 alarm to a 3006 user input. It changes a broken tool alarm to an m01 so the user can verify the tool is broken and not have to restart the program.
Did yours throw tools at random during tool changes? Place I used to work for got one early 2020 and it would throw tools at random right against the sheet metal. sounded like a bomb went off in the machine.
@@KreminIncManufacturing Haas actually turned new pins somewhere local and then brought them to our shop and swapped them out with the pins the machine came with. A pin in the tool pot was to short and that's what was causing the issue. They may have fixed that issue by now. We got one of the very first 500s they released. It was an HsK63 Spindle. They did not replace the damaged sheet metal.
We have a UMC500 for almost 2 years now and it has been nothing but trouble. The machine is really not stiff enough and even has repeatability issues on the Y axis
Thanks for the info, machining product wise, we have not had too many issues, most of the problems have been with the add-ons. We just did an update to the review, it should be on the channel in the next couple of weeks. Good luck with your system.
@@KreminIncManufacturing New issue we are dealing with now is that the spindle cooling fan is introducing vibration into the machine. And that is showing up massively and destroying surface finish. Took Haas 6 months to diagnose and resolve! They replaced the fan 2 months ago and the problem seemed gone. But last week the finish problem returned! A new fan is already on order. To be continued I guess
Some cnc lathes have a removable tool setter, I wonder if that would be a cheap fix for the tool probe. I guess you'd lose breakage detection but not a terrible idea IMO.
Years ago I modified my conveyor on a cnc lathe that 99% runs aluminium parts, them chips are a pain in the _ss. We made an airblast-pipe with small holes at the top of the outlet (spout) that is controlled by a M-code for the conveyor. After the M-code for the conveyor (Forward) is activated a PLC comes in that opens an air-valve, after one or two seconds the conveyor starts running and a few seconds later it stops by M-code (Stop), the PLC stops the air-valve after a second so the conveyor-belt is always clean at "the end" when it starts spinning. It takes a few second per part but that prevents me a lot of extra work cleaning that conveyor, it prevent chips to go back under the belt and falling below on the coolant tank. There are special relais that have timers or when your machine has a M-code for conveyor-return you can find out some other options.
I added an air knife to the chip conveyor to clean it off. I wired the valve in parallel with the chip conveyor motor so when it runs the air blast is on.
Good question, we have tried to keep similar groups of controls to make it easier on the operators - we have 9 Haas machines so it’s nice from a training perspective. That being said we also have a lot of Okuma’s - we would probably look to Okuma first but if we are going in a different direction we would evaluate all other options - DMG Mori, Okuma, we have also considered Robodrills - lots of good options. If we get a new model, we will give an update on it.
@@KreminIncManufacturing Thank you. I subscribed. great channel, and good review. Mori quoted a DMU 50 to me. the machine cost around $450K. I have heard nothing but good things about the machine. Doosan also has a comparable 5 axis for $300k. I want one of the new Kitamura 5 axis machines to make injection molds with. kitamura machines cost as much or more than Mori. The smallest kitamora cost 300k I have yet to get a quote for their bigger kitamura I will see what spec Okuma machine have. I also really want Mazak's horizontal 5 axsis HRC-5000 mill.
@@thedroolfool You get the tolerances you pay for. Mori machines are so accurate you can upgrade them for grinding. The upgrade cost $80K more. My DMU mori quote was for $450k.
@@sheepman6291 We've got a Doosan DVF5000. I think it's closer to the UMC750 in capacity. It has some similar issues, the conveyor can clog and flood and the side door leaks a little if it gets hit directly with coolant. The fanuc control is less user friendly than Haas. Overall it's been a great machine. Pretty much maintenance free since we bought it a year ago. Uses a grease cartridge that lasts a few months instead of filling way oil daily. It doesn't bog down with fast programs so no issues with 5-axis profiling operations. And you can load tools directly into the magazine instead of only through the spindle like the Haas. I've been pretty pleased with the 9 Doosans we've bought. Good value for money.
The UMC has been a good machine in general, it really depends on the feature you are machining as far as the tolerance window. I do not believe this unit has thermal compensation like the Okumas do.
@@KreminIncManufacturing They do a thermal compensation calc. in the control. i know this because my UMC500 was WAAAAAAY out of tolerance, and it turned out that the thermal comp. was doing somthing strange (or at least that's what HAAS UK told me). Great starter 5-axis machine. But my days, they had the new-start intern designing certain parts of it. The chip conveyor is laughable.
So explain this to me. Since its a 5 axis why do you need large amounts of rotation on the B axis swing going both ways? if you need to swing wide going to the probe side, index the part 180 and hit it from the non probe side? Am I missing something here? Its like asking why a CNC lathe doesn't go very far past center. Just curious cause I don't know.
We purchased this as a turnkey from our haas dealer for a specific project that was running 3 parts on one pallet being held by a pyramid style fixture - to get all sides of all 3 parts we needed more travel - we made it work with different fixturing but it was missed in the original design we had spec’d out - being our first true 5 axis - we weren’t aware of it - now we know
@@KreminIncManufacturing Ok that makes sense. Thanks for the intel. I am considering a 5 axis in the near future at our technical college. Trying to get as much of a grip on it as I can.
@@KreminIncManufacturing Ok so one last question. If a person was considering one of these and was not limited by the uniqueness of fixturing where you could spin the part 360 degrees in the C, is it safe to say its not really an issue? We would likely be running mold cavities that we would mount in the center of the rotary. Thanks
Doesn't Haas recommend the chip disk filtration system to eliminate clogging with fine aluminum chips? Is this not what is happening here, clogging from fine aluminum chips and the lack of the CDF system?
So Haas has been here a few more times in the last couple weeks working on this and the issue if the chips clear the machine and pack in/clog the coolant return system - so its a little different we think. They have made modifications to the sheet metal system where it exits the machine and enters the coolant tanks and it has gotten better.
Awesome video. I was saving up for a umc-350. I had heard from some one that the umc-500 a few bad things but didn't know about the probe stand limiting the trunnion rotation... that a major mess-up. I might have to wait to buy until that is fixed
Take a closer look at it, I know another person commented it does not interfere on the UMC1000, and in most cases you don't need to go that far in that direction - we happened to be running a project that had 3 parts on a pallet and needed the most flexibility to get to all sides of each part when we rotated.
@@KreminIncManufacturing instead of tuning the table to the right side, why dont you just rotate the platter 180 degrees and rotate the table to the right side? problem solved
umc is a great start up for 5 axis. my umc750 has alot of the same issues. the control is simple to use and I love the MRZP DWO setting. but look into a grob G350 or 550 next. they cost more but they are great.
That’s funny, we got a 2021 vf2ss the coolant pump sounds exactly the same. I asked the installer when the new pump would be in cause obviously this one is broken. They sent another guy out that said nah that’s how they sound! None of our 2020 and older machines sound like that not even the umc500 we got at the same time. I however like the umc500ss no pallet but runs great and holds great tolerances
We have a UMC 500 that is roughly one year old and made a video on our channel as well. We have seen a couple of the same issues you have mentioned. However I don’t see the issue with the B-axis limit. I don’t think we have ever needed the B to swing that direction even one degree past zero since our post processor just relies on the C instead. My brain hurts thinking about it but doesn’t it seem kind of redundant to swing an equal amount that direction? Curious if you have had a situation that actually needed it. Great video though +1 sub
Nice job on your video as well. As far as the swing, we had it set up for a project that had 3 parts on pallet. The 3 parts were on a pyramid riser to allow to get to all 3 sides of all 3 parts - we made it work but it was tight.
Having the tool touch off limit the table to 30 on one side is just about one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. Do customers get a discount that matches the degrees lost? Who the hell approved that one. Great videos by the way!
Location of touch probe should have been an issue the very first person who brought a machine. That truly sucks that you can’t get full rotation because there’s a dingleberry in the way.😅
It definitely makes sense but I could barely hear the multistage 20bar TSC pump on a DMG...sounded like one of these new washing machines that only makes a tame humm
Its a known issue on this machine, they have had other complaints. We have 6 more haas VF2's with high pressure coolant and all of our swiss lathes and chuckers have high pressure systems - nothing that loud.
Brother just released a 5 axis machine if you want something bonkers fast and reliable (and I think it's quite competitively priced?) I've a 3 axis Brother and I don't think people realise just how fast they move until you own one. Cutting a 2mm slot, the machine reaches 10m/min repositioning across the slot... Only 28 tools though...
It’s a valid point, they have had the UMC for some time. A lot of our issues are with the accessories, like the larger coolant tank and the pallet pool - they just don’t work right with the base machine. It’s the little details that are missing. Do you have any experience with haas?
@@KreminIncManufacturing Yes, I programmed and ran a 2015 VF3-SS with a TRT160Y from 2015 through 2021 making medical device parts. Then I started my own shop with a CM-1, 50K RPM, an HA5C-T, and now also a TRT-70. The worst aspect of the CM-1 is its coolant and chip management, or rather a complete lack thereof. Coolant and chips just go down into the sump, with some baffles that are supposed to stop chips, but actually do nothing. I had to make my own filter system.
Typical HAAS. They won't fix shit, don't hold your breath. The vertical mills have had the same chip auger problems for over 20 years, they never fixed that and I have a list of other issues that are worse on the new machines than they were 20 years ago. Pretty sad. Don't get me started on the ST25Y either lol.
So exactly like the Haas machines of 20-25 years ago, one of which i own. Decent performance, decent accuracy, very poorly designed down to a cost instead of up to a standard. Hey, at least they're sticking to tradition. Kudos to your honest review.
Thanks for the feedback, we have 9 Haas machines and for the most part they served us well. This one was not quite to our expectations. It is a different machine then our Okuma or Citizens but its also a different price point.
@@KreminIncManufacturing i use mine daily too. Never had issues with accuracy or performance, a workhorse indeed. Always having issues with stupid stuff like the ones on your video, disappointing for such an established brand to see they still exist.
@@spresvthen buy a quality machine
@@bryantburns3664 how did i not think of that? Thanks man, quality advice right there
@@spresv your welcome
Had our UMC750 only 5 months.Most of the time there where technicians crawling in and around it. When they finally picked it up again, no one from the HFO came. We loaded it onto the truck ourselves, with a rented forklift. Never heard back from either the HFO or Haas. We bought DMG Mori instead and never looked back. It wasn't even much more expensive, but the built quality, precision and features on that machine blows Haas out of the water. Will never buy a Haas again.
Which model did you go with if you don't mid me asking? I am pricing out some machines and would appreciate any advice on 5-axis.
@@lvxleathergo for Hermle or DMG Mori. Some of the best 5ax on the market
The coolant issue issues are the same for the 55 gallon tank to return screen is in the same exact place
Thanks Corey, we thought it was from the larger coolant tank - interesting it’s the same issue on the standard size.
@@KreminIncManufacturingcheck out the swarf unlimited upgrades chip filter screens. We just installed one of their xl filter screen and it has solved our coolant issues
We will check it out. Thanks!
Your probe eye seems to be installed upside down. If you notice, the Renishaw logo is written both ways. Your Haas tech probably should have rotated it 180deg so that the cable goes directly up; thus avoiding any chips hanging on the cable.
Thanks for the tip, we will ask about it.
I purchased a UMC500 in 2020 (covid machine) and it's bipolar. It's been the most productive machine in our shop and it's also had the most down time. We're fighting two issues: quality of design and quality of manufacturing. The biggest design issue is the chip management; lots of chips get past the conveyor and quickly build up in at the edges of the chip tray in the sump. If you don't keep the chips from building up, the coolant begins to overflow out of the chip tray. We have fabricated our own chip filter (to catch fines) and raised the walls of the chip tray. We have also made diverter wings to move the coolant flow towards the middle of the chip tray. No more overflowing coolant due to chip build up. The other major quality issues have been related to sloppy manufacturing and early component failures. Much has been covered under warranty but we've take big hits in down time. The B axis limit switch failed after 1 year and the took out the probe when the machine tried to home. There was a service access plug in the C axis casting that was missing. This allowed coolant to get in the casting under the vise and soak the electronics. Again, it was repaired under warranty. One week after the warranty expired, the spindle went out. Haas and our HFO took care of it under warranty. We had the exact same issue you showed with the pallet access door. No tolerance analysis was done on the placement of the door sensor. I've never had so much trouble with a new machine and we have purchased 7 from Haas so far. Haas seems to have the 'bang for the buck' portion of the CNC machine tool market dialed in. Haas machines have helped me build my business and I'm grateful for their service and products. That said, I'll have a hard decision to make if I ever consider purchasing another Haas product.
Thanks for the comments, we have another video that will be up in a week or two that goes through all the work the HFO did on the issues we outline in this video, they have stuck with us on trying to make it right. We also have an additional 7 Haas mills and 2 Haas lathes, so we made a commitment to the control, but I am with you - need to put a lot of thought into if we will be adding another one or going with something else.
You're a beta tester basically. Maybe now, 3 years after they released, they are close to selling a machine that they should have had sold you at the start. They basically scammed everyone with the "Reboot, everything is better" marketing, when in fact they were just looking for dumbasses to beta test their machine/screw over.
Ever experience a thermal comp issue on that?
Not yet, has it been a big issue for you? How old is your machine? Is it something that popped up right away?
@@KreminIncManufacturing This wasn't my machine but a machine I recommended to the owner of a shop I was helping build. It had an extreme compounding thermal comp issue only on the Z axis. We were left for months waiting on a fix that never came in the roughly two years I was there. It never showed it's face until I was doing a very long surfacing operation in full 5. At one side the tool was cutting, and by the other end of the surface wasn't even touching the part.
we have a umc 500. not sure if its same problem or not but when we first got ours end of October was getting a lot of chips out where the coolant drains and building up in the drain area of the base where the conveyor sets inside the machine that would cause over flows in front of the machine.
service tech was called in, right away says chips shouldn't getting in there.
removed the conveyor, discovered some parts installed wrong at the factory.
if you are standing at the operators door looking down at the conveyor you'll see some hex head bolts that holds a part shaped like angle iron with a real short leg on one side. the short leg is supposed to point up toward the bottom of casting to keep chips from from getting out of the conveyor.
on our machine these pieces were upside down leaving a huge gap for chips to get into the drain.
now we get very little chips out of the drain screen
Thanks for the info - we will check it out closer - I know the service techs have been out 3 times for the chips clogging the coolant flow but still haven’t fixed it
@@KreminIncManufacturing if you're familiar with the area i'm referring to where it transitions before the chips drop on to the belt. you shouldn't be able to your fingers up under there very far if those parts are installed correctly
side note, he had told us to stay away from the high pressure flood coolant. more trouble than it was worth. LOL
The Renishaw OMI is able to be rotated so it's angled downward to keep chips from sticking.
We have it angled down, but I will have the team look at it again, we might have more to go. Thanks for the feedback.
I added a wash down subroutine to the 9853 program so every time I do a breakage check it washes the omp and tool. I also changed the broken tool alarm from a 3000 alarm to a 3006 user input. It changes a broken tool alarm to an m01 so the user can verify the tool is broken and not have to restart the program.
Good video. As far as the Renishaw tool setter I bought a removable base for my VF4SS from Exact Engineering. It might help one of your travel issues.
Thanks for the input, I'll look into it!
Did yours throw tools at random during tool changes? Place I used to work for got one early 2020 and it would throw tools at random right against the sheet metal. sounded like a bomb went off in the machine.
Not yet, but we appreciate the heads up 😉
@@KreminIncManufacturing Haas actually turned new pins somewhere local and then brought them to our shop and swapped them out with the pins the machine came with. A pin in the tool pot was to short and that's what was causing the issue. They may have fixed that issue by now. We got one of the very first 500s they released. It was an HsK63 Spindle. They did not replace the damaged sheet metal.
Wow Thanks for the video points out a lot of things I'm glad I know about now!
Glad it was helpful!
We have a UMC500 for almost 2 years now and it has been nothing but trouble. The machine is really not stiff enough and even has repeatability issues on the Y axis
Thanks for the info, machining product wise, we have not had too many issues, most of the problems have been with the add-ons. We just did an update to the review, it should be on the channel in the next couple of weeks. Good luck with your system.
@@KreminIncManufacturing New issue we are dealing with now is that the spindle cooling fan is introducing vibration into the machine. And that is showing up massively and destroying surface finish. Took Haas 6 months to diagnose and resolve! They replaced the fan 2 months ago and the problem seemed gone. But last week the finish problem returned! A new fan is already on order. To be continued I guess
Thank you for a great honest review!
Glad it was helpful!
Some cnc lathes have a removable tool setter, I wonder if that would be a cheap fix for the tool probe. I guess you'd lose breakage detection but not a terrible idea IMO.
Thanks - we will look into it
Years ago I modified my conveyor on a cnc lathe that 99% runs aluminium parts, them chips are a pain in the _ss.
We made an airblast-pipe with small holes at the top of the outlet (spout) that is controlled by a M-code for the conveyor.
After the M-code for the conveyor (Forward) is activated a PLC comes in that opens an air-valve, after one or two seconds the conveyor starts running and a few seconds later it stops by M-code (Stop), the PLC stops the air-valve after a second so the conveyor-belt is always clean at "the end" when it starts spinning. It takes a few second per part but that prevents me a lot of extra work cleaning that conveyor, it prevent chips to go back under the belt and falling below on the coolant tank.
There are special relais that have timers or when your machine has a M-code for conveyor-return you can find out some other options.
Thanks for the info!
@@KreminIncManufacturing
You're welcome. 😉
I added an air knife to the chip conveyor to clean it off. I wired the valve in parallel with the chip conveyor motor so when it runs the air blast is on.
Would you get a mori then. I have talked with 5 other machinist who all said they moved from a HAAS to a Mori.
Good question, we have tried to keep similar groups of controls to make it easier on the operators - we have 9 Haas machines so it’s nice from a training perspective. That being said we also have a lot of Okuma’s - we would probably look to Okuma first but if we are going in a different direction we would evaluate all other options - DMG Mori, Okuma, we have also considered Robodrills - lots of good options. If we get a new model, we will give an update on it.
Mori definitely pays more attention to little details like these, but they're also like a 50% price increase over the Haas.
@@KreminIncManufacturing Thank you. I subscribed. great channel, and good review. Mori quoted a DMU 50 to me. the machine cost around $450K. I have heard nothing but good things about the machine. Doosan also has a comparable 5 axis for $300k. I want one of the new Kitamura 5 axis machines to make injection molds with. kitamura machines cost as much or more than Mori. The smallest kitamora cost 300k I have yet to get a quote for their bigger kitamura I will see what spec Okuma machine have. I also really want Mazak's horizontal 5 axsis HRC-5000 mill.
@@thedroolfool You get the tolerances you pay for. Mori machines are so accurate you can upgrade them for grinding. The upgrade cost $80K more. My DMU mori quote was for $450k.
@@sheepman6291 We've got a Doosan DVF5000. I think it's closer to the UMC750 in capacity. It has some similar issues, the conveyor can clog and flood and the side door leaks a little if it gets hit directly with coolant. The fanuc control is less user friendly than Haas. Overall it's been a great machine. Pretty much maintenance free since we bought it a year ago. Uses a grease cartridge that lasts a few months instead of filling way oil daily. It doesn't bog down with fast programs so no issues with 5-axis profiling operations. And you can load tools directly into the magazine instead of only through the spindle like the Haas. I've been pretty pleased with the 9 Doosans we've bought. Good value for money.
What are the tolerances you can hit with this machine? How is the thermal stability? Cool honest video!
The UMC has been a good machine in general, it really depends on the feature you are machining as far as the tolerance window. I do not believe this unit has thermal compensation like the Okumas do.
@@KreminIncManufacturing They do a thermal compensation calc. in the control. i know this because my UMC500 was WAAAAAAY out of tolerance, and it turned out that the thermal comp. was doing somthing strange (or at least that's what HAAS UK told me).
Great starter 5-axis machine. But my days, they had the new-start intern designing certain parts of it. The chip conveyor is laughable.
Never trust a company that doesn't target ads on TH-cam.
So explain this to me. Since its a 5 axis why do you need large amounts of rotation on the B axis swing going both ways? if you need to swing wide going to the probe side, index the part 180 and hit it from the non probe side? Am I missing something here? Its like asking why a CNC lathe doesn't go very far past center. Just curious cause I don't know.
We purchased this as a turnkey from our haas dealer for a specific project that was running 3 parts on one pallet being held by a pyramid style fixture - to get all sides of all 3 parts we needed more travel - we made it work with different fixturing but it was missed in the original design we had spec’d out - being our first true 5 axis - we weren’t aware of it - now we know
@@KreminIncManufacturing Ok that makes sense. Thanks for the intel. I am considering a 5 axis in the near future at our technical college. Trying to get as much of a grip on it as I can.
@@KreminIncManufacturing Ok so one last question. If a person was considering one of these and was not limited by the uniqueness of fixturing where you could spin the part 360 degrees in the C, is it safe to say its not really an issue? We would likely be running mold cavities that we would mount in the center of the rotary. Thanks
You are correct - not an issue if you are running one part at a time - you should have access to all sides by rotating the one direction.
Get an exact break away tool probe mount
Great Idea - Thanks!
Doesn't Haas recommend the chip disk filtration system to eliminate clogging with fine aluminum chips? Is this not what is happening here, clogging from fine aluminum chips and the lack of the CDF system?
So Haas has been here a few more times in the last couple weeks working on this and the issue if the chips clear the machine and pack in/clog the coolant return system - so its a little different we think. They have made modifications to the sheet metal system where it exits the machine and enters the coolant tanks and it has gotten better.
Awesome video. I was saving up for a umc-350. I had heard from some one that the umc-500 a few bad things but didn't know about the probe stand limiting the trunnion rotation... that a major mess-up. I might have to wait to buy until that is fixed
Take a closer look at it, I know another person commented it does not interfere on the UMC1000, and in most cases you don't need to go that far in that direction - we happened to be running a project that had 3 parts on a pallet and needed the most flexibility to get to all sides of each part when we rotated.
@@KreminIncManufacturing instead of tuning the table to the right side, why dont you just rotate the platter 180 degrees and rotate the table to the right side? problem solved
I was just about to say that, there is no limitation.
Make you own bracket for the OTS. That way you can get the full swing of your table
We could, but we try not to modify new machines while they are still under warranty. We programmed around it for now.
umc is a great start up for 5 axis. my umc750 has alot of the same issues. the control is simple to use and I love the MRZP DWO setting. but look into a grob G350 or 550 next. they cost more but they are great.
Thanks for the feedback, we will put the Grob on the list to look at.
That’s funny, we got a 2021 vf2ss the coolant pump sounds exactly the same. I asked the installer when the new pump would be in cause obviously this one is broken. They sent another guy out that said nah that’s how they sound! None of our 2020 and older machines sound like that not even the umc500 we got at the same time.
I however like the umc500ss no pallet but runs great and holds great tolerances
Yeah, we have 6 VF2SS - they definitely sound different then this UMC.
Rigidity (lack of it) is my biggest gripe.
That's a valid point also.
Still the best machines on the market for the price.
As far as capabilities, you get a lot for the price and the control is nice, this one just had a lot of issues with the add-ons.
Great video 👍🏻
Thanks!
We have a UMC 500 that is roughly one year old and made a video on our channel as well. We have seen a couple of the same issues you have mentioned. However I don’t see the issue with the B-axis limit. I don’t think we have ever needed the B to swing that direction even one degree past zero since our post processor just relies on the C instead. My brain hurts thinking about it but doesn’t it seem kind of redundant to swing an equal amount that direction? Curious if you have had a situation that actually needed it. Great video though +1 sub
Nice job on your video as well. As far as the swing, we had it set up for a project that had 3 parts on pallet. The 3 parts were on a pyramid riser to allow to get to all 3 sides of all 3 parts - we made it work but it was tight.
Thats why I bought Okuma. Too much ptsd from Haas over the years.
We have had good luck with our Okumas (the exception being our Multus……but we have a video on that one also)
We have 2 umc 500 and neither of the coolant pumps are even anywhere near that loud.
Interesting - we have had a couple service techs look at it and tell us that’s just the way they are.
issues that shouldnt be issues, are the worst issues.
Very true.
My 300pso tsc n a vf2 (2008) sounds the same. Loud. But love tsc!
Nice!
Having the tool touch off limit the table to 30 on one side is just about one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. Do customers get a discount that matches the degrees lost? Who the hell approved that one. Great videos by the way!
Location of touch probe should have been an issue the very first person who brought a machine. That truly sucks that you can’t get full rotation because there’s a dingleberry in the way.😅
first dud i find that talks correctly over machines! By telling the truth!
Thank you!
It’s basically a pressure washer pump. It’s going to be that loud.
It definitely makes sense but I could barely hear the multistage 20bar TSC pump on a DMG...sounded like one of these new washing machines that only makes a tame humm
Its a known issue on this machine, they have had other complaints. We have 6 more haas VF2's with high pressure coolant and all of our swiss lathes and chuckers have high pressure systems - nothing that loud.
Oof. I’ve been banging the 5-axis drum at my shop, with an eye on the UMC750. Now I’m a little hesitant. 😬
Brother just released a 5 axis machine if you want something bonkers fast and reliable (and I think it's quite competitively priced?)
I've a 3 axis Brother and I don't think people realise just how fast they move until you own one. Cutting a 2mm slot, the machine reaches 10m/min repositioning across the slot...
Only 28 tools though...
We have heard good things about the brother machines
@@KreminIncManufacturing they are amazing, however 5 axis is very new... Not sure how that translates in practice
Thanks for the comment, I will definitely do some research on it.
Bro that coolant pump 💀💀
Right? So loud…📣💥
probe being in the way of the 5th axis is seriously stupid.
In short it's a low end machine it's not like that expensive
Dhan baba jarnail singh ji babar sher bhinderawale mahanpursh
Seems odd the machine design is still so immature; they've had years to get these things straightened out.
It’s a valid point, they have had the UMC for some time. A lot of our issues are with the accessories, like the larger coolant tank and the pallet pool - they just don’t work right with the base machine. It’s the little details that are missing. Do you have any experience with haas?
@@KreminIncManufacturing Yes, I programmed and ran a 2015 VF3-SS with a TRT160Y from 2015 through 2021 making medical device parts. Then I started my own shop with a CM-1, 50K RPM, an HA5C-T, and now also a TRT-70. The worst aspect of the CM-1 is its coolant and chip management, or rather a complete lack thereof. Coolant and chips just go down into the sump, with some baffles that are supposed to stop chips, but actually do nothing. I had to make my own filter system.
If you want loud. Buy a Haas ST20 or ST15. They scream all day long.
Yeah...we have a ST and a DS lathe....
This shows that haas is an amateur machine builder.
Typical HAAS. They won't fix shit, don't hold your breath. The vertical mills have had the same chip auger problems for over 20 years, they never fixed that and I have a list of other issues that are worse on the new machines than they were 20 years ago. Pretty sad. Don't get me started on the ST25Y either lol.