I’m sure for a job shop it’s different, but for in house manufacturing I think this is an important point. As younger engineers enter the workforce who have only ever worked in CAD and only 3D printed stuff in school, there is a thing I like to call "coolness creep". It’s where super complicated parts are designed in CAD that look all jet fighter fancy, but in reality they could be spot welded sheet metal. As it’s become easier to enter the design space with free or nearly free CAD software, a lot of people with zero manufacturing experience are designing parts. They don’t know what is possible, so they over design, over complicate, and waste a lot of time and money. I run the in house machine shop for my company, so I have the luxury of asking "why is this part so complicated". That hasn’t always been the case in our field. Machinists used to be, and still are in many places, treated like mindless workers expected to make parts to print and never ask "why". I like to think of the process as a negotiation between professionals.
Where I'm at, the office guys do that. They're in charge of telling the customer "this might be a better way to make your part" and the machinists don't really get direct contact to a customer. We do, however, get to see the engineer's drawings and come asking for CAD models because they didn't write down what size they want the holes in their part.
4:18 I had to pause the video for a moment. Right at that moment a realization came to my mind; you guys are living the dream of a lot of men out there. I really mean it! The men cave is great, filled with a bunch of high tech equipment. You guys probably have internal humoring which would be hard to impossible for one outside the gates to understand - and I meant this to be a compliment! I really hope that this is reality and none of you guys have real life problems. That way you would be complete in my eyes. Someone I look up to. Heroes!
@Haas Automation, Inc. Great that you did a follow up. I think you covered it well and identified that there is no one right way of working, and that you're a human being!
As a machinist with an MBA, I can appreciate both sides of this problem. I ran everything from manual to huge CNC machines starting in high school and definitely found a lot of cool tricks, but now I'm pretty much dead-set on a UMC 750 because I can put in a blank and get out a 99% finished part. Maybe not relevant to every last job shop out there but sure is for us....
Haas is doing a great job ! Yeah, there is more than one way to skin a cat, but I think some of the comments here were not necessarily friendly.........finally learning is what matters to me and not necessarily whose method is better because there is no better; there is only the most adequate method and by its very definition ''adequate'' cannot be standardized as no two situations are alike......the value of this clip to me is that 3 experienced minds tackled a few debating aspects , all in sync with one another.....thank you guys !
A quick fix for your chamfering issue, at the beginning of the video, is to also include the table as a fixture and modify the tool holder to include the spindle clearances in your CAM verification.
For a smaller machine you would be able to use double station vises to utilize the y axis better. But still i would use 5 axis machine any day. This video is a perfect example of insta machinist vs an actual proper machinist who knows what they are doing. And utilizing the technology we have to use these days. I personally think that us guys who watch these videos also do machining for money and on our free time watch and learn more about machining would not be bothered by like 2 hour video on how and why this and that.
That video was about comparison 3 vs 5 axis. You can say that costs this, that costs that... but at the end everyone need to make their own decision what would be the best for them and consider everything. Maybe in some counties that extra soft jaws time would cost only 100 dollars, but maybe they don't have enough tool holders etc. You just showed some facts to educate people, like in that video about drill types. It is not something that you can see from any other machine tool brand and you make it honestly and I appreciate that time that you spend to do that. It helped me a lot trough my carrier. I would always go with Haas until It would be really time and demand to move to something else, but I would alway have few Haas machines and Haas tooling in my shop if I own one.
I really like videos with this kinda content because it makes you think out of the box on how to do different kind of jobs.. As an idea is to do a couple of videos a lathe ve a ds lathe with cost savings.. I would not worry about the length of the video as long you have great content.
You turned fifty percent of the block into chips to establish your rough triangle shape. There is a cost associated with that decision, regardless of your material removal rate. Blocks could be prepped on a lesser machine to cut the dovetails and then saw-cut, making two blanks, first operation on the five axis machine would be to clean up the hypotenuse of the triangle. Many road to the same destination. Are any best?
One to one the 5 axis wins, but doing the 1st ops on the biggest piece of plate you can fit in your mill with say 25 parts nested in a 3 axis mill and then subsequent ops in fixture plates, I think it might skew towards 3 axis being faster / more cost effective. I don’t remember all the geometry but I’ve done similar parts this way. The accumulated tool changes, stock loss to not being nested, stock prep time, and time spent putting stock one at a time in the vise ads up fast. Plus while 25 parts run, I can be doing something else. Also, you can’t run the 5 axis lights out. Maybe a lathe with live tooling and a bar feeder beats them both.
Newbie alert! I have seen videos about nesting BUT they never show how they hold the parts (that are still attached to the base block) for the second operation. If we flip over the entire block with 4 nested parts (for instance) then how do we hold on to those parts to stop them flying once you cut the top excess material ?! Thank you, Jorge
@@rdc02271 There are several ways. Often tabs are left that you just cut with snips. If I can do a full profile and I have enough surface area, I’ll use a vacuum table or superglue and tape sometime. The glue trick is great if you have a flat face you work first and then flip the whole part over and glue down. I cut 250 little valve bodies at once that way. Some parts you can fixture so they just drop out. I cut a bunch of barb adapters out of plate. I made the barbs in side one, flipped it over on 246 blocks, drilled and tapped side 2, then "parted" them off by plunging with and endmill bigger than the diameter of the part. I like just putting a raw plate in the mill and decking side 1, making it flat, and creating all your reference features in 1 setup. Cut your side 1 parts and flip the whole thing over onto the same pins you always use. Very fast.
I learnd alot about Haas machine tools thank to you guys! I am a proud owner of a 2021 VF2YT and a TL1. Could you please tell me the name of the often used shoulder mill in the haas videos? I am not sure if this tool is made by SECO. Haas tooling is not available yet in switzerland, so I can not purchase it from you. Thanks to all who work for Haas! I do really appreciate your products! Greetings from switzerland!
This component could have easily been made by making two parts from one block. The block could be the correct length and thickness, but wider to allow an angular saw cut to seperate the two parts for final milling of the angle to size. There would be no special jaws, dovetails with 3 very simple multiple vice setups on a 3 axis machine. Here is a technique you could use to almost double the stock removal rate when you were roughing the angle. - th-cam.com/video/5q2_CBhumZg/w-d-xo.html Sometimes five sided machining can be accomplished on a 3 axis machine with two vices and just one flip. This fun demo of a die shows how, play at double speed to get to tool 2 th-cam.com/video/quYXcxyzSTY/w-d-xo.html Here is an unusual way to access 3 sides on a 3 axis machine, probably not generally the best way, but certainly possible to access all 6 faces of a cube with one flip. - th-cam.com/video/1vaAs6mL8mY/w-d-xo.html Hope you enjoy the links.
That is cool. Designing the jaws/fixture to hold a part as the last example could drive someone insane depending on the part. If something was just slightly off the position tolerance would be out of spec. Maybe making dice it's fine but real parts are a whole other story.
@@lvxleather Thanks for your observations. To generalise: Properly designed jigs & fixtures guarantee repeatable location on the part datum features defined on the print. They should constrain all 6 degrees of freedom. Any part deviations within tolerance won't affect the part datums. The jaws for clamping the dice in the video locate the part repeatedly in the same position. It is not always possible for fixtures to allow for operator error. Although 100% fixture foolproofing is highly desirable, it can affect the ease of use. A compromise with operator training is often acceptable.
Hey I am a Mechanical Engineering student going into my senior year and I LOVE CNC! I wanted to ask if any experienced professionals in manufacturing or engineering have any advice for me. A couple weeks ago I started as a machine operator in a small job shop. I absolutely love it, I can’t wait to start setting up and programming machines, it seems easy enough too. I’ve been studying up on G and M codes along with the Haas manual for my machine (along with watching Haas tip of the day videos while my machine is running😂). I was also wondering what else may be beneficial for me to do. My school offers a 4+1 program that allows me to get my masters in one extra year and I don’t have to write a thesis or something of that nature, it also costs less money. I was planning on doing it for a while and now I’m wondering if it would be beneficial for me to spend that time and money on the extra year for my masters. Would that help boost my pay as a machinist? Would that be good to have in case I want to have another option if I want to change things up or even have some type of role that may be higher than a machinist but still very involved with the CNC machines? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank You!
Why do you want to be a machinist when you have an engineering degree? I don't have much experience in the field but I'd guess that you can get into designing the actual CNC machines if you really want to be involved.
@@lucidgosu1492 I’ve been working on my engineering degree and I started working in a machine shop for manufacturing experience and I just love working with the machines
@@harrisonsilver4707 I got a 2 year-diploma from a different field but couldnt find work due to covid and I didnt like it that much, I got introduced into a machine shop last year (work on a cnc mill) and after worked for almost a year, I want to go back to school for Mechanical engineering. I love how these machine work but I cant stand being a machinist. I dont mind the physical work but I hate how it's so underpaid consider the amount of stress,work and thinking involved. Not to mention potential chronic problem from inhaling coolant mist or even metal dust? I hope that going back to school is still a good choice because its gonna cost me 5-6 years to finish as i need 1 year for upgrading highschool marks for a top tier uni and 5 yrs for a coop program, Im 23 atm.
@@lucidgosu1492 yeah I mean the thing about being a cnc operator is that it seems you don’t have to be very educated (which doesn’t always translate to pay) obviously the place you work and some other factors may be at play (I don’t know too much about the field but just from what I’ve seen). I feel like it’s mostly people that don’t have other qualifications like it’s a pretty simple job once you get the idea of it (at least where I work) that’s why I’d guess there is a pay ceiling, but I’ve also seen experienced machinists making upwards of 150k so... And yeah totally that health issue is something I’ve thought about a lot. My coworkers make fun of me for wearing a mask when I open the machine but I can tell it’s definitely not healthy. I don’t know. I just enjoy the machines like they are so cool to me. But I feel like being a machinist may get a bit boring after a bit. I’d probably like to work on designing them or parts that are going to be processed in them because I love design and CAD. Sorry that reply is a mess Of jumbled edited thoughts lol
@@lucidgosu1492 Interesting how you point out out dust inhalation and coolant mist; as that is one of my reasons for looking to leave machining and going back to school for a BSME. Machinists are going to have to start to refuse any machining work until the employer has at least mist collectors and good ventilation control to control any other dust particulate created from deburring or other issues. Only then will employers focus on long term safety of employees.
I have been machining parts similar to the sample part on my 3 axis for years. No big deal but lots of fixtures and 4,5 setups and or opps. Gets really tiring and a huge waste of time. Definitely not the Lean approach. I am seriously looking at a new 5 axis for if nothing else to save valuable setup and run time. I believe it’s a no brainer. Keep your 3 axis machines for really simple and or 1st and last oops. On the complicated parts
I’m sure for a job shop it’s different, but for in house manufacturing I think this is an important point. As younger engineers enter the workforce who have only ever worked in CAD and only 3D printed stuff in school, there is a thing I like to call "coolness creep". It’s where super complicated parts are designed in CAD that look all jet fighter fancy, but in reality they could be spot welded sheet metal. As it’s become easier to enter the design space with free or nearly free CAD software, a lot of people with zero manufacturing experience are designing parts. They don’t know what is possible, so they over design, over complicate, and waste a lot of time and money. I run the in house machine shop for my company, so I have the luxury of asking "why is this part so complicated". That hasn’t always been the case in our field. Machinists used to be, and still are in many places, treated like mindless workers expected to make parts to print and never ask "why". I like to think of the process as a negotiation between professionals.
Yeah, new blood engineers are the worst lol.
Where I'm at, the office guys do that. They're in charge of telling the customer "this might be a better way to make your part" and the machinists don't really get direct contact to a customer. We do, however, get to see the engineer's drawings and come asking for CAD models because they didn't write down what size they want the holes in their part.
4:18 I had to pause the video for a moment. Right at that moment a realization came to my mind; you guys are living the dream of a lot of men out there. I really mean it! The men cave is great, filled with a bunch of high tech equipment. You guys probably have internal humoring which would be hard to impossible for one outside the gates to understand - and I meant this to be a compliment!
I really hope that this is reality and none of you guys have real life problems. That way you would be complete in my eyes. Someone I look up to. Heroes!
@Haas Automation, Inc. Great that you did a follow up.
I think you covered it well and identified that there is no one right way of working, and that you're a human being!
Great video guys. These videos seriously contribute to the success of Haas and machinists around the world. Keep it up!
As a machinist with an MBA, I can appreciate both sides of this problem. I ran everything from manual to huge CNC machines starting in high school and definitely found a lot of cool tricks, but now I'm pretty much dead-set on a UMC 750 because I can put in a blank and get out a 99% finished part. Maybe not relevant to every last job shop out there but sure is for us....
Haas is doing a great job ! Yeah, there is more than one way to skin a cat, but I think some of the comments here were not necessarily friendly.........finally learning is what matters to me and not necessarily whose method is better because there is no better; there is only the most adequate method and by its very definition ''adequate'' cannot be standardized as no two situations are alike......the value of this clip to me is that 3 experienced minds tackled a few debating aspects , all in sync with one another.....thank you guys !
A quick fix for your chamfering issue, at the beginning of the video, is to also include the table as a fixture and modify the tool holder to include the spindle clearances in your CAM verification.
For a smaller machine you would be able to use double station vises to utilize the y axis better. But still i would use 5 axis machine any day. This video is a perfect example of insta machinist vs an actual proper machinist who knows what they are doing. And utilizing the technology we have to use these days.
I personally think that us guys who watch these videos also do machining for money and on our free time watch and learn more about machining would not be bothered by like 2 hour video on how and why this and that.
I agree.
Даёшь пятиосевой станок в каждый гараж!!)) 👍👍👍👍👍
That video was about comparison 3 vs 5 axis. You can say that costs this, that costs that... but at the end everyone need to make their own decision what would be the best for them and consider everything. Maybe in some counties that extra soft jaws time would cost only 100 dollars, but maybe they don't have enough tool holders etc. You just showed some facts to educate people, like in that video about drill types. It is not something that you can see from any other machine tool brand and you make it honestly and I appreciate that time that you spend to do that. It helped me a lot trough my carrier. I would always go with Haas until It would be really time and demand to move to something else, but I would alway have few Haas machines and Haas tooling in my shop if I own one.
John Nelson is a treasure
I really like videos with this kinda content because it makes you think out of the box on how to do different kind of jobs.. As an idea is to do a couple of videos a lathe ve a ds lathe with cost savings.. I would not worry about the length of the video as long you have great content.
Brilliant.
Love these walk throughs.
Can you do one of these on the y axis driven tooling. Always learn whilst watching!
Good follow up, thanks guys
You turned fifty percent of the block into chips to establish your rough triangle shape. There is a cost associated with that decision, regardless of your material removal rate.
Blocks could be prepped on a lesser machine to cut the dovetails and then saw-cut, making two blanks, first operation on the five axis machine would be to clean up the hypotenuse of the triangle.
Many road to the same destination. Are any best?
One to one the 5 axis wins, but doing the 1st ops on the biggest piece of plate you can fit in your mill with say 25 parts nested in a 3 axis mill and then subsequent ops in fixture plates, I think it might skew towards 3 axis being faster / more cost effective. I don’t remember all the geometry but I’ve done similar parts this way. The accumulated tool changes, stock loss to not being nested, stock prep time, and time spent putting stock one at a time in the vise ads up fast. Plus while 25 parts run, I can be doing something else. Also, you can’t run the 5 axis lights out. Maybe a lathe with live tooling and a bar feeder beats them both.
Newbie alert!
I have seen videos about nesting BUT they never show how they hold the parts (that are still attached to the base block) for the second operation.
If we flip over the entire block with 4 nested parts (for instance) then how do we hold on to those parts to stop them flying once you cut the top excess material ?!
Thank you,
Jorge
@@rdc02271 There are several ways. Often tabs are left that you just cut with snips. If I can do a full profile and I have enough surface area, I’ll use a vacuum table or superglue and tape sometime. The glue trick is great if you have a flat face you work first and then flip the whole part over and glue down. I cut 250 little valve bodies at once that way. Some parts you can fixture so they just drop out. I cut a bunch of barb adapters out of plate. I made the barbs in side one, flipped it over on 246 blocks, drilled and tapped side 2, then "parted" them off by plunging with and endmill bigger than the diameter of the part. I like just putting a raw plate in the mill and decking side 1, making it flat, and creating all your reference features in 1 setup. Cut your side 1 parts and flip the whole thing over onto the same pins you always use. Very fast.
@@rexmundi8154 Thank you.
Love this! Keep doing these!
Great follow up video men.
I want 5 axis because I have a full-time job, and my small business needs a fully automated system to make parts durning the day.
Very good follow-up video!
I learnd alot about Haas machine tools thank to you guys!
I am a proud owner of a 2021 VF2YT and a TL1.
Could you please tell me the name of the often used shoulder mill in the haas videos? I am not sure if this tool is made by SECO.
Haas tooling is not available yet in switzerland, so I can not purchase it from you.
Thanks to all who work for Haas! I do really appreciate your products!
Greetings from switzerland!
This component could have easily been made by making two parts from one block. The block could be the correct length and thickness, but wider to allow an angular saw cut to seperate the two parts for final milling of the angle to size. There would be no special jaws, dovetails with 3 very simple multiple vice setups on a 3 axis machine.
Here is a technique you could use to almost double the stock removal rate when you were roughing the angle. - th-cam.com/video/5q2_CBhumZg/w-d-xo.html
Sometimes five sided machining can be accomplished on a 3 axis machine with two vices and just one flip.
This fun demo of a die shows how, play at double speed to get to tool 2 th-cam.com/video/quYXcxyzSTY/w-d-xo.html
Here is an unusual way to access 3 sides on a 3 axis machine, probably not generally the best way, but certainly possible to access all 6 faces of a cube with one flip. - th-cam.com/video/1vaAs6mL8mY/w-d-xo.html
Hope you enjoy the links.
That is cool. Designing the jaws/fixture to hold a part as the last example could drive someone insane depending on the part. If something was just slightly off the position tolerance would be out of spec. Maybe making dice it's fine but real parts are a whole other story.
@@lvxleather Thanks for your observations. To generalise:
Properly designed jigs & fixtures guarantee repeatable location on the part datum features defined on the print. They should constrain all 6 degrees of freedom. Any part deviations within tolerance won't affect the part datums.
The jaws for clamping the dice in the video locate the part repeatedly in the same position. It is not always possible for fixtures to allow for operator error. Although 100% fixture foolproofing is highly desirable, it can affect the ease of use. A compromise with operator training is often acceptable.
Where’s Mark?! Where’s Mark?! Where’s Mark?! Where’s Mark?!
Please do more Steels like 15-5 ph material not always soft non ferrous materials
Share the 3d model. I'll give it a go on my 3 axis
When are you guys gonna have Gene Haas on here?
Could you have made it on millturns..
Hey I am a Mechanical Engineering student going into my senior year and I LOVE CNC! I wanted to ask if any experienced professionals in manufacturing or engineering have any advice for me. A couple weeks ago I started as a machine operator in a small job shop. I absolutely love it, I can’t wait to start setting up and programming machines, it seems easy enough too. I’ve been studying up on G and M codes along with the Haas manual for my machine (along with watching Haas tip of the day videos while my machine is running😂). I was also wondering what else may be beneficial for me to do. My school offers a 4+1 program that allows me to get my masters in one extra year and I don’t have to write a thesis or something of that nature, it also costs less money. I was planning on doing it for a while and now I’m wondering if it would be beneficial for me to spend that time and money on the extra year for my masters. Would that help boost my pay as a machinist? Would that be good to have in case I want to have another option if I want to change things up or even have some type of role that may be higher than a machinist but still very involved with the CNC machines? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank You!
Why do you want to be a machinist when you have an engineering degree? I don't have much experience in the field but I'd guess that you can get into designing the actual CNC machines if you really want to be involved.
@@lucidgosu1492 I’ve been working on my engineering degree and I started working in a machine shop for manufacturing experience and I just love working with the machines
@@harrisonsilver4707 I got a 2 year-diploma from a different field but couldnt find work due to covid and I didnt like it that much, I got introduced into a machine shop last year (work on a cnc mill) and after worked for almost a year, I want to go back to school for Mechanical engineering. I love how these machine work but I cant stand being a machinist. I dont mind the physical work but I hate how it's so underpaid consider the amount of stress,work and thinking involved. Not to mention potential chronic problem from inhaling coolant mist or even metal dust? I hope that going back to school is still a good choice because its gonna cost me 5-6 years to finish as i need 1 year for upgrading highschool marks for a top tier uni and 5 yrs for a coop program, Im 23 atm.
@@lucidgosu1492 yeah I mean the thing about being a cnc operator is that it seems you don’t have to be very educated (which doesn’t always translate to pay) obviously the place you work and some other factors may be at play (I don’t know too much about the field but just from what I’ve seen). I feel like it’s mostly people that don’t have other qualifications like it’s a pretty simple job once you get the idea of it (at least where I work) that’s why I’d guess there is a pay ceiling, but I’ve also seen experienced machinists making upwards of 150k so... And yeah totally that health issue is something I’ve thought about a lot. My coworkers make fun of me for wearing a mask when I open the machine but I can tell it’s definitely not healthy. I don’t know. I just enjoy the machines like they are so cool to me. But I feel like being a machinist may get a bit boring after a bit. I’d probably like to work on designing them or parts that are going to be processed in them because I love design and CAD. Sorry that reply is a mess Of jumbled edited thoughts lol
@@lucidgosu1492 Interesting how you point out out dust inhalation and coolant mist; as that is one of my reasons for looking to leave machining and going back to school for a BSME. Machinists are going to have to start to refuse any machining work until the employer has at least mist collectors and good ventilation control to control any other dust particulate created from deburring or other issues. Only then will employers focus on long term safety of employees.
Hanzhen harmonic drive gear , strain wave gear ,
robot joint , over 30 years experinece
Good video
Tab that bad boy.
Ask Tom Baliey about this Haas Co and how bad they treat people who buy from them
I have been machining parts similar to the sample part on my 3 axis for years. No big deal but lots of fixtures and 4,5 setups and or opps. Gets really tiring and a huge waste of time. Definitely not the Lean approach. I am seriously looking at a new 5 axis for if nothing else to save valuable setup and run time. I believe it’s a no brainer. Keep your 3 axis machines for really simple and or 1st and last oops. On the complicated parts