The Bell Siphon - REVISITED
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ย. 2024
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During the past couple of months, I've been playing around with my bell siphons. Back in 2012 when I was setting up the geodesic dome, I added a small cup to the breather tube to aid with the stopping of drain cycle. This has been working quite well but I've never liked having the cup as a separate piece since it's a bit annoying to insert bell while holding the cup in place. (Original video: • The Better Bell Siphon )
This past summer I invested in a 3D printer for a contract job and started having some fun designing some enhancements for the greenhouse with the revised bell siphon being one of the improvements.
There's really nothing new with the overall functionality, just integrating the cup into the bell housing so it's all one unit. Also, is a small improvement to Afnan cup that is used on the stand pipe to help get it started quicker.
This is a lengthy and detailed video because I wanted to cover all the functioning basics of a bell siphon in action. I also invested in a camera that could shoot at 240 fps so you could see how the siphon starts and stops in slow motion. The siphon break is so fast it can be difficult to see how it operates in real time.
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I did create a small store for these: www.bigelowbrook.com/store
these look awesome! you should do a kickstarter to get these manufactured instead of 3d printed
Bigelow Brook Farm (Web4Deb) Are the ones on your site made with a threaded base?
You are brilliant man.
this is really cool and I admire your 3D modeling. How long does it take to create such a model? Or this model for example? Great job!
Fantastic looking build Rob. Think you might get a lot of interest from folks on this one. 👍
Was the 240fps footage from the new camera (RIP)?
Cheers mate.
yup. I left it in some rice for several days and I think I got all the moisture out of it. Seems to be working again!
Fantastic build! you just took this to a whole other level. I'm so blown away by this I'm actually yelling at the TV lol Beautiful just beautiful!
Ingenious little pump, nicely demonstrated. Hope you are not too buried with the latest snow blizzard down in Connecticut!
Amazing Bell Syphon design!! This helped me a lot with my design, glad I found this video. Thank you
Bravo Rob! Well done. I have been using your original little cup design and now you have gone another leap forward. I especially liked the window on top. I have wanted to see that action ever since I built my siphon but never bothered to do the modification. Keep up the great work.
Very informative. Great job innovating the bell symphony.
Great design. Only thing I would change would be making the top where the clear piece goes sit inside the ring. In other words make a small lip so it sits inside instead of on top. This would make it easier to glue in, stay in place a d have a cleaner look. Once my greenhouse is built I hope you are still printing these!
I changed the design to do that years ago. ;-) Thanks!
@@Bigelowbrook Awesome. I will most likely be ordering some next summer after the geodesic greenhouse is up.
Great video, i could never understand why the siphon would start especially at low flow rates
Really nice work , 3d printed parts are great for aquaponics, and the syphon design is really well done !
One remark though careful with the brand/batch of PLA that is used to print these : I had no issues with printed PLA parts (pipe fittings, fish feeder ) sitting in water /outside for months, until this year, where a whole set of parts became extremely brittle and broke : PLA is usually fine in most cases though.
Very nice, thanks for sharing this design.
This is great work! Thank you for your insight and improvements on this device.
Nicely engineered .. works like a charm ...
Just a short while before watching this video I saw your previous designs . Glad I waited to comment in that you have ironed out all the bugs . To many of examples (many, many other designs) have far more space above the siphon inlet than needed and the siphon is impeded by this . The funnel may actually have been added in to correct this design flaw in early development . The cross sectional area , the difference between the ID of the 'bell' and the OD of the siphon tube and the sq. wall area of the virtual cylinder (siphon pipe extended to cap) should be as close to constant as possible . (being any larger at any point does not add to the flow because like a chain , a siphon is only as strong as it's weakest link (section).
The cup is clever . I wonder if an inverted bell might also aid in vent function . Great video !!
That is an awesome improvement Rob. Great job!
Stick an O'Ring in the top of the down spout . If you don't have one to fit the inside of the down spout you can use a piece of the same pipe and cut a piece out so you can squish it together and slide it in to the top .
Very professional, I guess by now I should expect that but I'm impressed!
WOw! Nice work, thanks for sharing it !! I wonder how small could i make one ?
Outstanding! Really impressive job! Now if I could just get my (stuff) together, I'll need a bell siphon....
Bloody genius. Well done! I'll likely be ordering a couple of these from you for my new build come spring time.
Good stuff! Thanks for taking the time to post!
you just did what i'm thinking on "when" i get around to build my own system. and you have refined it a bit. good work. ;)
I found it and placed my order : ) thanks!
got it! Thanks!
Necessary complication and it is critical because oxygenated water is like blood in our body. Without it things will die and that is catastrophic. With that says I might upgrade to this snorkel type for a piece of mind in the future. It is a simple modification to the existing b.siphon anyway.
Thanks for your video. I am always fascinated and want to learn and do the 3D printing. I might cough up the money and spend the time to learn how to do 3 D printing. Very nice piece of b.siphon you did there!!!!!!
Wow, this is just revolutionary
I really like your work with your dome, and the bell siphon is quite interesting. I had a thought about the moving cup. From your description, the cup is required beause otherwise the siphon could get into a limbo, where the breather tube is sucking both water and air. Maybe much of the cup's function is due to it's much smaller area than the bed, and therefore removing a volume of water from it changes the local level much more quickly than the level of the whole bed. Perhaps the motion of the cup is a nice to have, but not as necessary.
What if the breather ended inside a small short open tube fixed to the body of the bell siphon? As the bed water level got to the top of the short tube, the breather would pull the water inside the tube out fast enough to quickly drop the water level inside the tube, and then getting the desired air break. Just a thought, as I find the operation of your systems quite intriguing.
Nice job Rob
You're the Aquaponics king!!
Maybe try a one way air valve from pet store, to top of inner tube. Costs about $2 - $5. As the tank fills it pushes the air out. When it starts to suck, the one way shuts off and the auto siphon kicks in. The top 2" of a plastic soft drink bottle inserted upside down works well. Trial and error.
like the 3d printed model. if only I had one of those printers lol. seems like the work put in has yeailded absolutely top notch results. one question I have is how well plants respond to a bell siphon ebb and flow as opposed to the timer based ebb and flow we see now? the significant difference I can see between the two designs is the bell siphon system will have a lot more fill and drain cycles, so what impact if any will this possibly have on the plants? obviously this works, just trying to gain a better understanding of multiple systems. this is mainly because the system I'm working on pulls form multiple systems, intended to be as mechanical as possible, which is why I want to use the bell siphon as opposed to the timer. all in all I the roughly enjoy seeing your work. it's top grade stuff. comes from a professional point of view, and it through and informative, addressing most if not all possible problems. I hope you continue making these videos as it helps many learn how to properly make these systems.
I have one small bed that cycles ever 15 minutes and the larger ones are about once an hour. I haven't noticed any difference with the plant yields. The main goal is to get some air around the roots so a long as they aren't submerged all the time you should be in good shape. You can always order a printed siphon from our store. ;-) www.BigelowBrook.com/Store
Bigelow Brook Farm (Web4Deb) thank you. think once I get this built and in my hands I'll get a better grip on fill and drain times, and know where adjustments need to be made.
I think if I need to tweek times, adjusting pump pressure may be the easiest way if its needed
@@Bigelowbrook - Thank you so much for the detailed, PhD level instruction. Please disregard those who prefer to skip or ignore these "little details"
I am new at this but will be setting up a small farm in the Caribbean and I have learned a lot from your videos.
May I contact you directly for resource information?
Questions:
Where did you acquire your 3D printer?
Where did you get the greenhouse plastic sheeting, the bits & pieces?
Where do you acquire the grow bed liners?
Please advise;
hotzone_ops@yahoo.ca
Please keep the vids going. Thanks in advance for your time.
Why couldn't you post this video three days ago?! (Heavy sarcasm font used here) I've been watching your bell siphon videos non-stop for the last two weeks, and spent eight hours today building 3 of your old design. I really like the new design and if my new hobby of aquaponics turns into a more dedicated hobby, I will be ordering some of the new ones from you. I'm interested to see how the PLA holds up over time. Cheers and greetings from the frozen eastern plains of Montana!
Sorry. If you were a patreon contributor, you would have seen it last week. ;-) The other style still works really well, I'm just stepping it up a notch!
Really great work Bud!
kids throwing rocks in there?! That's dirty pool, Peter.
Could a miniature version of this design work for a water depth of 1inch or less? I’m trying to use a siphon for my hydroponic setup
A very nice video as usual ... I have observed that in general, the forms taken by you, the water tends to flow shaped in a vortex. So maybe worth experienced a siphon bell not having those three fins above, or the 3 fins made at an angle and curved shape so as to oblige water flow in the form of vortex. Thus, the air at the top of the bell will be sucked more efficient in the discharge path. However, it is possible that the centrifuge force into exhaust flow to reduce exhaust flow, thereby increasing the discharge time... What about the idea? Maybe you can do a experiment and a small video on this? I'm very curios about it... Only if you feel the it's worth... course... Wish you the best !
Not sure about the properties of the spray enamel you are using, but I know many have compounds that are not desirable in a food system. I have had success with using acetone to smooth and seal 3d printed materials. The acetone then evaporates and any residue can be washed off. Curious if you ever tried such a technique.
Great design
Excellent video, which is standard for you. Thank you. I couldn't help but notice you fighting off those fungus gnats. My greenhouse aquaponic system is also infested with fungus gnats. Please share if you ever find a solution or at least a reasonable control method. Thanks.
I still use nematodes every spring. Over the winter I think it's too cold for them so the gnats sort of take over. One it warms up a bit, I add them and in 3-4 weeks the gnats are gone. th-cam.com/users/edit?o=U&video_id=RajRXuxDhHs
Amazing videos! Thank you so much! I just started an aquaponics system in a greenhouse here in central South Africa. I plan to add a flood and drain gravel bed system with your bell syphon in it. I see in this video that you use quite small gravel, whereas I came across recommendations of the larger about 20mm ones. Have you got long term experience with the two different sizes and would you recommend one over the other?
20 mm will be fine. I've been happy with my 3/4" gravel which is basically 20mm. Most people don't like to go smaller because it won't have enough gaps in it.
The link is not working here. So maybe you stopped the store. Is it possible to have the 3D print data so I can look for someone who can print it for me? I do not have a priter myself. Thanks
Did you consider an acetone vapour bath to seal the plastic to prevent leaks?
It would work inside those narrow tubes the spray paint can't get to.
acetone doesn't really work on PLA, it's for ABS.
Ah! I assumed it would be ABS to increase the lifespan in such a rugged environment.
I'd love to get an update in the future on how the PLA holds up.
also I was curious as to how to prevent water born critters from taking a foothold in the system. never had this but also never made a large system yet. working on my first large scale system now. not sure if it will be a problem
the key rule would be not to add water from a pond or stream.
Rob, how is this design holding so far? Seems robust enough, but it's interesting to see a follow up if you'll have a spare minute :)
still working great! The original ones are still going.
Wow! *This is great.* Thank You! Is there no reason to be concerned about the (dried) spray paint and the fish?
I''m not concerned, but you should read the chemical listing on the can if you have any concerns.
Looks great. It's too bad there isn't enough market to get these mass produced cheaply it would be nice. I know you probably don't want to share the whole siphon but are you going to post the STL file for the cup?
I'll put the STL's on the premium site. If you're are at least a $3 contributor, you'll have access to it!
Cool :)
Good stuff! Makes me want a 3D printer!!!
Is there a reason you didn’t size the entire siphon set-up to accommodate the larger beds? We’re currently building our system, and have 3 large beds that are a total of about 80cft. They will all share a common 1.5” drain. Couldn’t the siphons be built with 1.5”drain/3”bell/6”gravel-shield?
I've seen larger. I did use 1" drains in my new greenhouse since the beds were larger.
Bigelow Brook Farm (Web4Deb) does the larger build alleviate the issues with the siphon not breaking? Or are you using the same updated design in the larger build?
Resin casting would let you produce them faster in what ever color the person wants with the hard part the mold creation. Would need to cast the tube separate from the body but that would let you setup master molds to let you mix, pour and demold in less time then one takes to 3dprint. It would also not require sealing with paint.
Excellent video and engineering. I struggled with Autocad and it looks like you've mastered Autodesk. Do you use it often for your electrical engineering work? Congrats on the project and looking forward to your next video.
I've been using autocad on and off since the 90's. I did some contract work last year and had to learn autodesk Inventer which wasn't too bad. I tried sketchup before that and didn't like it at all.
Thats a pretty cool design you have there. I like it. I have been using a 1 inch down pipe with a 2 inch flare Affan Siphon for 5 years it works great with out that side hose for me. The only thing I had to do was to raise the grow beds 2 inch and it solved all the issues I had with starting and stopping. I'm kinda of curious to know why you prefer such slow flow rates on such a large flood and drain grow bed?
there's not much need to cycle them any faster. The larger ones are about once an hour which is plenty of time.
I try to cycle my grow beds at a min of once every 15 mins or better. To turn the fish water over 4 times and hour. I'll admit that would be a lot easier if I'd add another grow bed or two. But I growing more than I can eat, feed the bunnies and give away with what I have already. Maybe I need to add them anyway and get some chickens.
this might be a stupid basic question, but i am rather new to hydroponics so I am gonna ask anyway: why is it important to cycle the water like this insead of having it flow in/out at a constant rate continuously?
kay486 one reason is aeration of the roots.
aeration. Some people do constant flood and will bury air stones in the beds.
For fungus gnats, get some Gnatrol and add that to the water in your system,. It's a bacteria that paralyzes the larval stage of the fungus gnats before they can damage the roots.
Bacillus thuringiensis israeli (Bti) is the active ingredient. Works against mosquitos too.
Are the bell sipon still available in the store? I could not find it???
Great work!!
what filament are you using some dont do water ever well
got a price for the 3d print file ?
what I did for mine was use the top of a soft drink bottle
Outstanding! Nice work.
Injection mold… someday. Kickstarter?
Nope. The molds for something like this would be $20-30K. I'll just keep the 3D printer running as the orders come in. ;-)
you should look into making an (DLP/SLA) 3D printer FDM printers are a waste of time
no need for that here. If I have a job that needs that, it's more economical for me to send it off to have someone else print it.
Do you have a chat or something I can show you mine. Just built it but idk why it isn't draining properly
Contact info is in the About page.
do you sell or have the cadd/stl files for your siphon. was going to design my own until I came across your video
Never mind I found it on your site Thanks!!
nice job.
Maybe look into bubble science to improve next Bell Siphon? Still great work.
I think in the sub at 17:56 ( and also a bit before ) there is a litlle mistake. Your sub says Recorded é 240 fps 1/8 speed. 240fps is 8 times the normal speed, not 1/8. That is why the reply sowes a slowmotion. The 240 fps is correct, the 1/8 not.
Is it possible to print the entire thing or just the top in transparent?
The top is a piece of acrylic (plexiglass) that is cut on the laser cutter. They do make a "clear" PLA plastic for the printer, but it's not clear. It's sort of like looking through a milk bottle and with the water, there isn't enough contrast to see anything happening.
ah too bad. It would be cool to print embedded windows anywhere you wish.
not to nitpick.. and i have no idea what im talking about... but if you angle those fins on the top wouldnt it trap less air in the lid? it drains fast enough i doubt it maters.
my first prototypes didn't have the fins and didn't make much of a difference. I think it's better to have them in so people don't get the top of the standpipe too close to the top.
I noticed that while your original video had a P trap at the outlet and burping of the air between the trap and the siphon inlet was a part of the siphon starting, the trap is no longer there. Was there a reason to get rid of the trap?
The trap seemed like a good feature to me: without it, there's an obvious minimum flow rate to get the siphon started below which you could get a small flow just trickling down the outlet tube walls without starting the siphon action. With the trap, that's still true if it happens to burp just the right amount of air, but otherwise in a normal cycle, I'd think the kickstart from burping would be a good thing.
On another note, have you seen bigclive's teardown of a urinal autosiphon? If not, check out:
th-cam.com/video/BQ45kMi6HkA/w-d-xo.html
It's somewhat more complicated than what you have, and you probably understand what's going on in it better than he does. I suspect some of the extra complexity addresses the same issues as your moving cup, except it's done with no moving parts. While I don't think these are available through normal US channels, they seem inexpensive and readily available in UK and Australia. Shipping would be excessive for a single unit, but a bulk buy could make sense.
I've seen that video. The tap is still handy to have but using the funnel helps to get things going too.
Have you considered an external bell siphon?
I had external bell siphons in the original greenhouse. The problem with them is that you still need to take up space in the media bed for some type of gravel guard. If you don't make the piping easily accessible, you can still get roots and stones in the plumbing. This is just a simpler solution with less plumbing to keep it in the bed.
awesome video thank you
friggin sweet
You could plant some en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinguicula in your greenhouse. They are able to live in swamps and alpina is even very tolerant to calcium ions. I have some in my kitchen and they are absolute killer for fruit flies.
What cad software do you use?
Inventor
СУПЕР!!! Огромное спасибо за отличное видео! Я тоже увлекаюсь гидропоникой. Ваши видео очень познавательны! Привет из России. :)
how much to purchase STL? or CAD
www.bigelowbrook.com/online-store/Bell-Siphon-STL-Files-for-DIY-Printing-p79668354
@@Bigelowbrook Thanks, Order placed!
would like to see this on thingiverse so I can print one out
Yes, that would be nice, but *I've just seen the file for self-printing the syphon for sale at a* (from my point of view) *very reasonable price on the website.* There went quite some thought-processes and lifetime into the development and we can not expect such thing for free/without compensation. On the other hand: If we all would give without questioning, we all would have plenty - this however might only work if we get rid of the private fed debt money and the protection money the powers at be make us pay to keep the roof over our head. As long as this did not happen: *I am very thankful that this syphon is availabe - this is a big improvement!*
Genius!
How's the banana doing?
not well. I'm just putting together another video where I show it. I think I let it get too cold in there this winter.
Lol, now I have a reason to get a 3D printer
Great scott that just looks tit! I want one just for display
Please tell me you are going to patent your product. You work to hard not to.
I did a patent on the GrowGrips because it was worth the expense. Something like this wouldn't have enough sales to justify the cost. My last patent was "cheap" and cost a little over $10K. If I got lucky and sold 1000 siphons, that would have added 10 bucks to each siphon.
Thank you for the response.
You have a gift for insight. I have learned a lot from your video's. Thank you for coming back on you tube.