Living as a former Christian is like waking up from a bad dream and looking around you to see that almost everyone is a zombie. To hear callers dumber than I was 3 years ago , is really sad.
Chris Massey Nope. I never said that, and you can’t even honestly conclude that from what I wrote. If a human were described doing the kinds of things God is described as doing, they’d be called an evil monster. But when God is described as doing those things, people like you say it’s holy and just and righteous. You give god a pass when you’d condemn a human. Now fuck off under your bridge.
Standard warning to strap in for a long meander self absorbed wander before getting to a point, usually after Matt gets tired of their prolestitizing and barks at them.
Dude, despite the fact that you “know” you’re right, but you’re wrong. Dead wrong. You’re harming your son, damaging him forever, and yes, your behavior corresponds perfectly with religion.
Especially when you think of this poor kid, crying because dad withholds affection, simultaneously being taught he was born bad and should spend his life being punished for it or he doesnt get to go to the happy place.
Agreed, and as an aside, here's a tip: 9 times out of 10 children know better than their parents whether they practice bad parenting or not. To quote George Carlin, "parents must be the most full of shit people in the world". The majority of them really are. And lastly, we have evolved to be really emotionally needy beings, especially during childhood. And for the longest time our species existed, infants slept with their parents, typically their mother, even during childhood. Koreans know what they're doing. The caller is definitely a horrible father who doesnt know shit. As for people that worry that their children might grow to be spoiled, or needy, or dependent, here's the thing: You really think your 30 year old son will say "hold my hand daddy" at that age? Piss off, seriously. The vast majority of people cant wait to get out of their parents' roof and have their own place and start their own family. And this happens regardless of the type of parenting they got. In fact, there's good evidence to suggest that the more emotionally unavailable and less nurturing the parents are, the more dependent and needy the children grow up to become when they reach adulthood. It leaves trauma of unfulfilled parental care, so those mistreated children effectively become adults that cant really let go and become independent, because they constantly seek their parents' care and validation, not to mention approval. Its because they didnt get that when they were children, so it leaves an emotional scar and a void that they cant fill. Russel (caller) doesnt know shit.
He doesn’t need “the elohim.” I feel your pain. Mine did the same, with the same results. Please seek out assistance. A good therapist and medications go a long way for help. At least they did for me. It’s something I will work on until the day I die.
@@SasekoBloodraven there is nothing wrong to give blessings to other people. You might not believe it but that is your right. I know about over the counter medications and prescription from doctors. They completely ruined my friends life. Now she hears voices and there is no way to remove them. She goes to see a therapist everyday and she says it doesn't do much of anything. You see the government does not care for people's well being. It is about how much money they can make off each individual.
Blessings of Elohim are imaginary blessings. Why not just say blessings? You had to add a concept of God in there, like all theist do. It’s empty. And your anecdote about a friend that hears voices because of medications? It doesn’t happen that way. Of course someone that is so wrapped in theism would think it does. But if your “friend” is hearing voices, it’s because they aren’t taking the meds. Hearing voices is schizophrenia. I doubt the veracity of your tale. This man needs therapy for sure, meds to help.
Yep I kiss my little girl and tell her I love her constantly because soon there's gonna be a time where she either embarrassed or her friends make her feel embarrassed. Screw everyone else.
Damn straight. Your kids are going to be grown before you know it, and you will regret every moment that you had a chance to do something like that for them and chose not to.
The Daughter's Boyfriend Test A teenage girl comes home with a black eye. Her boyfriend hit her. She makes excuses for him. She says " He's just using tough love! " Does that excuse make it okay? If not, why would that same excuse work for someone else? Abuse is abuse. It's abuse for the boyfriend, the husband, the parent, and the god.
@@coletrickle1775 Was Darth Vader abusive? Does the fact that he does not exist change the abusive nature of his actions? No. Fictional characters can be abusive within the context of their mythology, just as much as real people are. Also, there's also granting a premise for the sake of the discussion, especially when you are talking to people who are convinced that God is as real as you are.
@@zemorph42 Yep, you are right. I'm not saying that a book character can't have traits assosciated with it, I'm saying a god can't give that teen a black eye, because it would have to exist first.
This guy describing how he won’t even give his crying son love to help him fall asleep is breaking my heart 💔 I hope that kid doesn’t develop emotional issues later in life
he will. Hopefully he makes at least one contact who can present an appropriate (emotional) role model and picks up enough insight into self care to be able to deal with those emotional issues, later in life.
2 years late, but I thought of my own son. I would rush to comfort him. Yes, maybe he won't always have me and it 'makes sense' to not always be there, how could I deny that moment to my child? The whole reason I would is BECAUSE he won't always have me or his mom. I want him to know that I will always be there for him, if I can do so. Children are not adults. They need that support and attachment so they can build trust to others later and know what a good and loving relationship looks like. To teach my child that denial of love is love seems insane. I want them to know what proper love and affection is, because if they do they'll know what abuse is and that it's wrong. Broke my heart to hear a father wouldn't take opportunities to be there for his child when the child is yearning for that reassurance.
The mind of a child is more flexible and better at assimilating new information. An adult's mind has grown rigid and hard, solidified in his ways of thinking. It makes changing your thought-ways much more difficult
@@lukewojtanowicz1991 Plus, Santa has no control over life and death. Christians, Muslims don't want to die. No one does. So they have an afterlife to appease their fears. That's the difference between the Easter Bunny and Jesus.
I'm six three, big built, ex bouncer. My Mum, to her dying day, insisted on hugs all the time. My friends got them too, if they came to my house, including mates who came over still wearing their bike gear. One if my oldest friends still recalls as a teenager, when she got hugs from Mum that she never got at home. What's wrong with hugs and kisses or hand holding, especially when children are little? Holding a child's hand is so little effort, and means so much. "Tough love" is often an excuse for the lazy or those who have difficulty with their own emotions.
@ Peter Mirtitsch You hit the nail on the head. So many adult rules and behaviors toward children are derived from us adults’ difficulty with our own emotions - all the rules and order demanded in classrooms, even for very young children, all the segregation of children in the first place, tiresome lecturing, demands of respect and fealty, indoctrination, literal and emotional neglect, and so on.
'Tough love' is really only necessary for the protection and betterment of your children, such as not always letting them eat unhealthy food or endlessly play video games etc. 'Hugs and kisses' is just 'love' and should be freely administered (particularly in the young)!
Probably the most bizarre post I’ve ever read. What does your size have you do with anything? Is that supposed to mean you can’t fall or have your ass beat by someone smaller than you? Are you really that naive? Also, being a bouncer or ex bouncer…not a badge of honor AT ALL. It just screams that you weren’t intelligent enough to find a better job. You seem quite self-deluded and egotistical with a huge amount of ego on the side. Please, stay in your UK shithole
It amazes me how a person says there is a supreme being, cannot prove this being without a doubt exist, BUT can tell you *IN DETAIL* what this invisible being wants. Amazing !
It sound like you may have had the luxury of not being indoctrinated it was true since before you could put rational thoughts together. I was in one of the less restrictive groups that accepts mainstream science, but still has a bedrock of god is true and the bible is his inspired word (so may have errors), just figure out the rest and how that applies to modern life. Surprise, surprise, god tends to be for most everything you and social groups you are in think sounds good, and is not at all like those extreme denominations think.
Why do the callers always start with: "First of all I'd like to say I'm going to keep this short and to the point...i'd just like to say it's a pleasure to talk to you, Matt..I've been a big fan for years., my wife loves you...i'll keep this short and get right to the point...is that ok, matt?...i've been a big fan for years...so I'll get straight to the point and i know you have other callers waiting...how are you matt?....so..here goes....i'll keep it short and to..." ...just get on with it!!
My mom basically treated me the way you are treating your kids. Because of that, I have struggled not to feel unwanted and unloved by her, and to avoid self destructive behaviors that those horrible feelings lead to, my entire life. So no dude, you pretty much arent doing what's best for the kids. Hold his fkn hand and be a loving father. I'm not saying give in to every tantrum or demand. But withholding love and affection? That's poison.
I have had the same exact experience. But yet, my mother to this day doesn’t understand where these feelings are coming from. Probably because she thought she was doing best for me.
Totally poisonous... the effects of this treatment has never left me. Therapy, medication. Nothing can help me to get over the feeling that I wasn't wanted or loved and in fact I was made to feel like my existence was a total burden. It has shaped who I am to my core and it infects every aspect of my life, school, career, relationships, personal goals, and most importantly my relationship with myself. It kills me that so many other people also go through this and we all just suffer silently.
Same my mother gave me up to a family member with four older daughters for fear of cps taking me away but my adoptive mother spanked me till my but was numb whenever i did something wrong
As someone who not only grew up in a secular household, but in a secular country and society, I can confirm that I've never at any point in my life gotten close to believing in a god or even taking the idea seriously. I've often said that I don't think Americans often appreciate how weird their country is when it comes to religion. And the levels of religiosity in America have more in common with Iran or Saudi Arabia than they do with the majority of European nations. In my country, religious people are actually the outlier, and the overwhelming majority of people of my generation, are atheist. I think Scott using the term "indoctrination" is perfectly reasonable; religion and religious thinking REQUIRES reinforcement. Whether it's on a cultural level or a personal level, it requires in some way the normalization of magical thinking for someone to buy into it. Some people are fortunate enough to never experience that.
@@deimoskaischylos But there are also the very intelligent people who are on the front lines fighting covid. And people like me who see wearing masks as the same as wearing your seatbelt.
@@deimoskaischylos Most species don't have the capability of creating masks, let alone wearing them. I don't think mask wearing can be correlated with an extinction level event.
2:02 "My youngest one is always crying at night saying to his Mother, you know, Why won't Dad hold his hand when we go to sleep at night? He's upset, he's crying... I'm just trying to let him know he can't have attachments all the time.. I have to be upset" So that would be: *Not a Dad right* ? Not only can you hold your son's hand every night, you can even hug him and console him and say you'll do your best to always be there for him. Somehow YOU think the opposite of this? Your poor poor son :( Lets hope he has the complete opposite of your old fashioned outdated horribly unloving views. HOLD HIS DAMN HAND you monster!
@@stephysteph8558 The irony his son will desperately seek the physical attention of another man, and that any common Priest will pick that up, is also devastating. He is setting his son up to fall. :(
He talks about his ‘youngest one’ so oddly, I’m not convinced any offspring actually exist. It’s just a convenient way to peddle his very strange “parable of the incompetent father” to get God off the hook.
@@rojh9351 I think he does have a son. His poor understanding of being a Father is nurtured through believing in a claimed Father figure who demands: Love me or else burn. Believing in such a monstrous thing could easily cause critical issues with his own demands on his own children. I feel he does have a younger child plus obviously older children. His poor parenting technique is not as bad as others even (as he clearly is willing to follow authoritative demands) its just that he's clearly following the advice of a reported monster.
How sad for this guy... the delusional thoughts in his head are spilling over to his parental responsibility but it's okay for him because a god is involved. I'm actually very shocked!
@Gary Thistle I am glad this guy isn't my neighbor. He seems to think he is the only one that has his "unique" thoughts about the basic issues, and only his are the correct ones. WTF knows what he is ultimately capable of.
I know, how the fuck do you rationalize when your son is sitting there crying, "Can you please hold me?" and you decide that no, "I'm doing this for your own good"? Why not take the child's intentions and wants into account in this scenario, EVEN if somehow you could prove that holding him is not the best action (which, by the way, I'm completely unconvinced is not true)? It's a LITTLE KID. Why the fuck are you concocting all these scenarios that somehow you have to "prepare him" for life. What the fuck is this? All the science that I'm aware of is that a parent's/guardian's love for their children is one of the most important variables in a child's mental health, and their long-term ability to live happy lives. Look up about Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE's) and the impact that can have on children's mental health. I'm not actually angry at the father, either. I think he's delusional and needs help, as well, about proper boundaries, family dynamics, child development, and the existence of an invisible dictator.
The sad reality of it is, I dont think he became that way because of his religious views. I think he first got to be an irrational person who would later become a horrible parent, and then he adopted those religious views because they are a good match for his mindset and personality.
@@morpheas768 Well either way, it's clear that now the consequences of his actions is a child suffering, so it would need to be addressed from a clinical perspective regardless of how his mind came to be in the first place.
@@morpheas768 Many were indoctrinated using the same techniques from their parents... thus view what produced them and their belief in their elevated position, their correctness, as the proper way to indoctrinate their kids to be correct. Don’t even allow disagreement with the parents, because that’s ‘disrespect’, but to guide someone or address disagreement you have to allow and admit the disagreement.
I found out that my late dad told my mother that he didn't touch me and my sister much or show affection because he thought it was gay and didn't want to be gay. In the handful of positive memories I have of him, the most vivid one was him carrying me to bed after I fell asleep on the couch. Fathers out there, stop this jackass mentality of 'can't hold them too much or they'll grow up soft'. It's damaging.
I agree with you. I recently read somewhere that, at one time in the U.S., it was very common and encouraged for parents not to hold or touch their children "too much." This is one of the reasons why Dr. Spock was very important in our culture - he encouraged love, affection and cuddling between children and parents. Thank you Dr. Spock, an American hero.
@@stephaniemccord8677 the fuck? 🤦♂️ As a parent, I KNOW you can’t get it all right but I hate this idea of sticking to unfounded ideas and make believing you have nothing you can do about it. LOOK IN TO IT. 😯 Scary stuff man!
I need to thank my mom for raising us completely secularly. She was raised Catholic and still believes that there's "something out there", but she kept it completely out of our lives. She was surprised when I told her I was an atheist in my teens, but completely accepting. I take that for granted too much.
Every call into the atheist experience: 1. Saying it’s an honor to be on the show. 2. Long irrelevant story that supposedly brings backstory to their point, usually containing a fallacy that is called out 3. Caller ignores and continues to persistently push their argument even though a fallacy has been called out. 4. After some back and forth, caller gets fed up, as though it’s no longer an honor to be on the show. 5. Call ends. I could watch this for hours though. Haha
my Big 3 filter when I'm looking for clips: 1 - is the caller a theist 2 - did they immediately flash their "atheist creds" ("...I used to be an atheist, a super dooper mega inner circle atheist of the eleventeenth degree...")? 3 - did they immediately drop to their knees and begin fellating the hosts? ("It's such an honour/I've been listening for so long/you've helped me develop my critical reasoning skills blahblahblah") satisfying these 3 criteria all but guarantees an entertaining call *(bonus points if blowing the hosts involves claims about how much more logically/rationally they think/argue thanks to the hosts/show....)*
My atheist dad is so much more nurturing and ethical than my Christian mom. Even when I was a Catholic as a child, I knew I could not believe in a God who would condemn him to hell for not believing in something that God refuses to show or prove (though he has the ability to do so!) Again, he was more "Christian" in actual deeds than any Christian I have ever met. Later, I wished he had been a bit less passive with his atheism than he was. I used to pray for him to convert. Now I wish he had worked a bit more to de-convert me. I came to skepticism and science and empiricism and am teaching my 5 children the same, but how much pain and guilt could have been avoided if atheists were more assertive, like Matt.
I hug my kids, tell them I love them, attended every musical/play performance and cried my fucking eyes out. They're now two very compassionate adults that I'm incredibly proud of. Love your kids, people. Always.
even if a god could be proven, why would it need &/or demand to be worshiped? ... unless the untransformed human psyche itself has been projected outwardly
Thats why religion needs the threat of magical torture, and the promise of a magical happy-land; Without the carrot and stick of heaven/hell (or "good/bad re-incarnation", or 1,000 other variants), simple god-belief is unlikely to co-erce behavior change.
My heart hurts for this guys kids. I tell my kid I love her even when she’s being naughty.... I feel like I am filling her bank with love. We want our kids to be able to care for themselves.... but why not hold their hand at 3?!? I dunno... just strikes me as off/wrong.
I totally agree with you. They grow so quick and doesn't matter how rich or how poor you are affection and love and nurturing is the most important thing they need. I can't even imagine not giving my children cuddles etc when they want/need one - I feel so sorry for his kids 😔
keep doing it. kids remember. when i was about 7 we moved and in the new place i had my own room when i had previously shared a queen sized bed with my two older sisters my whole life. my dad tried for months to get me to sleep in my own room in my own bed. i remember months on end of me terrified and lonely, screaming and crying out for my sisters and my mom, but he insisted. it never worked and i think it back fired. even as a teenager i would drag my mattress down the hall and sleep on my sister's floor. but those nights are some of my most vivid memories of that time in my childhood.
@@James-yi1vk mine just turned two. Omg... such a wonderful developmental moment! Every second get to be her best friend is my best moment. She’s getting to be so independent and running away and laughing. Just a little while ago she only wanted to cling to my hand. They change so fast. Why not bask in these beautiful early years of nothing but sweet baby love?
It's great Russell called in and spoke about his experience. It will make his children's future therapy so such easier by being able to just play this back instead of trying to explain it.
Also not being there for your teenager in whatever way you can is inhuman too. They're just a lot more complicated at that point, but honestly it's just so sad to hear this call how he neglects his child :(
DUDE JUST LOVE YOUR CHILD! Hold his hand! Wow... he thinks he is avoiding some kind of attachment issue while is creating a whole different one...wtf. You children WILL get your attention. If its not in a nice wholesome way like YOUR SON IS ASKING FOR, he's gonna get it in a negative way.
My friends dad raised him with "tough love". I helped him move to his college dorm after high school. The second we rolled off of the farm he said to me "I will never sleep under that fucking roof again!" He never did. He died in an accident at 36. I talked with his father before the funeral. That dude will never forgive himself for what he did.
An anecdote about the "let Jesus take the wheel comment". This comes from an airline pilot I used to know. One of his earlier jobs was for a less reliable cargo outfit. He once had his engine go out, and the other pilot he was with threw his hands in the air and said "it's all in god's hands now". My friend said he would have punched him if he wasn't so busy trying to land the plane. So, this does happen sometimes...
I got ya/ I understand where you're coming from: you've found the fallacies in my reasoning so I am going to stop the conversation and change subject immediately in order to hold on to what I want to believe This is not a religious phenomenon, it's very common with people and I hope I am not like this.
I held my son's hand till he went to sleep for years. It wasn't easy but now that he is grown I so miss it. Don't ever deny love to your children. On a side note - I found out years later that he had severe anxiety as a symptom of autism - I'm so happy that the least I could do was sooth his anxiety for a little every day.
Most of my life I wanted to believe god existed. I would pray every night before going to sleep for god to send me a sign, speak to me, anything to prove he/it existed. Should be easy for god to do that, especially for someone who desperately wanted to believe. After decades, I got nothing. I now believe that man created god. I don't know it, but it seems to me the most logical answer. And if someone tells me the evidence of his existence is the bible, I discount that out of hand. Just starting with the fairy tale of genesis makes it impossible to believe any claims in that book. And if there were one true god, wouldn't there just be one book for every culture all over the world? There are thousands of god beliefs. They can't all be right, obviously. But they sure can all be wrong.
I sometimes feel the Abrahamic religions bank on people not reading their own Bible. Genesis literally uses words to refer to multiple Gods, depicts slavery of an innocent man by force, and has easily disproved facts of reality. I'm a writer for a living... It took me a long time before I started reading the book as fiction and not as some deep understanding of the mankind. It was then that I realized the stories make more sense when you see the writings as man trying to make a story and doing a bizarre job. I remember taking a post it note and labeling it when a random detail was brought up that made no sense, almost as if they were making up the story on the spot and added a number or name dropped a witness for the sake of impressing the reader.
There are multiple sources of evidence that show and prove explicitly that men created the abrahamic gods and how they did it. There are many sources that do the same for the (even) older gods created by women. There are even multiple sources that show how men stole their gods from women and created the abrahamic gods out of them, and the efforts made to hide these facts. You can learn a lot about human history reading/exploring them, and the stories are much more interesting.
@@cfltournaments8406 Don't leave out how anti woman the bible is. God and Satan also go to Vegas together and place bets on folk like Job: If you kill his family, livestock and take away his wealth, he will curse you God, said Satan. God said...Hold my wrath and watch my work. Like literally playing GAMES like a roulette table with a so called Faithful God servers life! Just you cant make this shite up. But they did.
My daughter is 34 years old I am 65. I was certain that I was doing the right thing many times while raising her. Now 65 looking back the quantity of idiocy is overwhelming
I've put my children to sleep and will lay with them until they are confident (old enough,) to tell me "I'm OK." My kids know that I love them and understand that I won't always be there but they know I love them.
Love the way conversations are broken down to specifics to select from. Matt and others are my heroes. I've learned so much, never complete, as knowledge cannot be, but damn, I appreciate All of YOU in the AXP. Sincere to tears.
When I was young and couldn't/wouldn't admit I was an atheist, I searched for ways to make the world conform to what the church was telling me. Things like "Evolution is the tool god used", etc. One of these was "god didn't do anything here on earth only once, why would he do this earth only one time." Part of the wedge that made me admit (to myself) that I was an atheist.
What you fail to understand is that Gawd's time scale is way different than ours. A couple of thousand years to us, but Gawd's coffee-break danish isn't even out of the microwave yet. You've got to learn to think these things through.
How many suffered and died needlessly because humans didn't understand germ theory until not so long ago? What is their god thinking, oh I will let them die from easily preventable disease for a couple thousand years until I'll inspire someone to discover that washing your hands regularly will dramatically increase your chances of survival. Or inspire someone to come up with a medicine to kill that disease. Nonsense.
Kids need 3 things from their parents: Time, attention and love. Depriving them of these pretty much always leads to behavioral issues. In particular, kids who need attention will act out intentionally because even getting negative attention from a parent is better than none at all in their minds. Withholding showing love to your child will also create a human who has issues expressing their feelings toward others. In his defense, the last thing he wants is a totally dependent child, but this is still a child and should be treated as such.
Unfortunately this guy may end up raising kids with issues. Either they will be brick walls to emotion and unable to connect or empathize or they could have serious attachment issues if they feel they didn't get what they needed from their father
God is not "Abusive" II Kings 2: 23-24: “From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking up the path, some small boys came out of the city and harassed him, chanting, ‘Go up, baldy! Go up, baldy!’ He turned around, looked at them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two female bears came out of the woods and mauled 42 of the children.” So, children insult someone and God, kills the Children. Yea. Real, "Moral" and not at all "Abusive"
@@dark666razor They don't? Sexual reproduction is a type of reproduction that involves a complex life cycle in which a gamete (such as a sperm or egg cell) with a single set of chromosomes (haploid) combines with another to produce an organism composed of cells with two sets of chromosomes (diploid). Sexual reproduction is the most common life cycle in multicellular eukaryotes, such as animals, fungi and plants.
The 'tough love' argument is bankrupt. If you're a parent and you find yourself defendiing genocide or eternal punishment, you should probably re-examine your parenting choices.
Bruh your kids should always know they can count on you and that you're there when they need you. That will not keep them from being independent as they grow up. It will actually help.
Parents need to be the rock, the safe place. Somewhere kids can come back to when they need. I'm not advocating coddling, believe me, but kids need to know they have a place to go that will accept them unquestioningly.
"God's using tough love", LoL. Ya, because we're all a bunch of sin junkies and the whole world needs an intervention, LoL. Where do people come up with this stuff?
@@SongWhisperer for example let's say that there are two deities. Let's say the government changed ancient texts( all religious text) to hide human kind true identity.
The first caller needs to chill out. Holding his son's hand isn't going to make that child weak. It will demonstrate how much his father loves him. What is wrong with people sometimes?
Just what happened to me, same upbringing as Scott, and the same reaction, everybody actually believed that stuff except me. My religious education teacher was so frustrated about my questions he called my atheist parents, well he only called them once.
I’ll definitely say give as much love to your kids when they’re young... it reverberates throughout our whole life. I was never told “I love you” when I was a kid and to this day I struggle when someone genuinely loves me because it’s a feeling that’s still foreign to me.
At 4 years old, my mom read the story of Abraham and Isaac to me from this beautifully illustrated children’s bible. I remember asking her if she would kill me, if God told her to. Her response, “Baby, it would be really hard because I love you so much, but I love Jesus so much that I would have to.” I think she meant it. I’m 40 years old now, and if I asked her today, I’d get the same response.
I am also, like Mr. Clifton, never been a believer. The closest I came to believing was an instance after a church service when the preacher who was raising me as a temporary adoptee suggested I pray for relief when I mentioned I had a headache. It went away about an hour after praying. I was awed, but eventually, it wasn't nearly enough to sway my beliefs. ( I was about ten years old at the time.)
Russell needs to understand that growing up will provide that detachment naturally to his children as they age and want to spend time with friends, not parents. By trying to force that early you may be harming your kids. Children need to feel secure and a big part of that is to feel trust in their parent, that their love in unconditional.
I was born and raised a 4th generation Bible Student ( a small Christian sect who were the forerunners of the Jehovah's Witnesses ). The Bible Students were the founders of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. As a Bible Student our life was completely absorbed into a culture of 8 hour meetings on Sunday, door to door witnessing and/or day long indoctrination sessions for young people on one Saturday a month. Attending mid week meetings held at congregational member's homes in the evening. Growing up a Bible Student meant living a life wholly devoted to serving God at every moment. My childhood peers and I were raised to live a self imposed isolation from the "world" because we were the only ones on the entire planet that had the "truth." The indoctrination was extreme and thorough. It took many years and some very hard experiences to bring me to the point where I could even permit myself to question my beliefs. Once I did, it was a gradual drifting out of the faith. The death of my grandparents and father all happening within a few short years of each other in the mid 1990s started me down the path of questioning my "faith." But in 2001 when my brother committed suicide at age 44 I simply could not cope. My life and marriage was falling apart. I began drinking to deal with the pain, got a DUI which threatened my job. I began to see for the first time that my values, and beliefs had not prevented my life from coming apart. I was sent to a mandatory State run weekend program on alcoholism and drug abuse. There they had a representative from AA speak to the group. I know, the AA speaker at a State run/funded mandated program is unconstitutional, but I didn't know AA was a religion then. I jumped in with both feet, while at the same time feeling guilty that I was betraying the faith I was raised in, i.e. the "truth." None the less I felt comfortable in AA, because the meeting format was familiar, and strongly resembled the meeting structure of my childhood religion. But after five years of being very active in AA I began to realize that they offered no more help and understanding than did my childhood faith. I began secular counseling, at the strong objection of many of the AA friends I made. After five years of attending AA I abruptly left because of an incident which made it clear AA was no different than the religion I was raised to believe. Both AA and the Bible Students were cults. From that point I began asking myself why I believed the Bible, why did I believe in God. It wasn't easy at first dealing with the shame and guilt, but then I realized in my mid 50s that there is no good reason to believe the Bible haas any validity. That's when I became an atheist. For many it might not take so long, or the hold is too much for them. But it really took very harsh experiences and a long period of time to get to the point where I would allow myself to open my mind to the possibility that God might not be real. Now I am in my mid 60s and have been an atheist for about 10 years or so.
I enjoyed Scott’s contributions 👍🏽 What many “tough love” proponents don’t realise is that studies have demonstrated that, ironically and sadly, withholding love/affection tends to actually cause a child to either be more clingy or else shut down emotionally. Giving a child affection and security when they are young gives them the foundation for having healthy strong relationships as adults as well as the confidence to explore the world. Unfortunately fundamentalist Christianity has been implicated in multiple cases of child abuse and even death with the Perl’s book “How to train up a child” influential in guiding these Christian families on how they should discipline children into complete obedience through harsh punishments (recommending they start using severe methods from just a few months old). The fact that the Bible has been used to legitimise the abuse and subjugation of vulnerable children, causing them untold damage, is a terrible example of the dangers of religion.
Both my wife and I never withheld affection with our two children. Hugs, kisses, encouragement. Both children grew up happy, successful and great parents in their own rights.
"Where there's smoke, there's fire" is a logical fallacy. It's always disheartening to hear someone openly state that they are a fan of a logical fallacy.
I'm horrified by Russell's statements about how he raises his sons. I'm not an expert on child psychology and/or development, but I did raise a son, who's now 22. I always cultivated a strong bond with him, singing his lullaby when bringing him to bed, reading with him at bed time, we took showers together when he was small (and had light saber fights in the bathroom with the lights off!), he could always come to me for a big hug. The child will indicate when he/she is ready to move on to the next stage. The bed time reading stopped when he had become a proficient reader himself. The showers together stopped when he was old enough to take his own showers. And instead of coming to me for a hug, he came to me with questions for which he needed an answer. But my son in each case made it clear when he was ready for the next stage. But in every stage, he knew I was there for him and that he could rely on me, and that's what he carried over to the next stage. As a parent, it is your responsibility to create an environment for the child of love, respect, safety, trust, honesty, and also fun; and most importantly, to grow with your child, to adept to the maturing of your child from baby, to toddler, to to "child", to teenager, to adolescent, to grown-up. To this day I have a deep and strong bond with my son, and he still knows he can count on me.
I like your attitude and your healthy parenting style. I have no kids, but I have a deep respect for them, in that they are literally our future. They are both sponges and mirrors. They soak up whatever you teach them, then they reflect your values and manners. I always jump at the chance to teach a child or children about gardening, butterflies and pollinators. Everyone has something to pass on.
Matt i love your smack upside the head realism. If you ever get to debate in person i wanna be in the front row. Love your show from a new atheist. More power to you!!!!
Don't be silly, you'll be there until 3am and then they will EXPECT that every night. You make them feel loved by the way you raise them OVERALL and that carries them through the small upsets that they don't yet understand - and then they turn 5 and they start to understand anyway.
@@joelonsdale then you make a compromise and explain that you will be there for 5 minutes and if they don't fall asleep within 5 minutes then you have to go because you have to go to sleep. There are ways to make this work
Scott, you virtually depicted my exact same experience with my added reality of growing up as part of a specific religion. Oh, the fucking hell I went through... And it carried on into my adulthood, where conforming was the only way I knew how to cope. I vowed never to inflict it on my children and grandchildren. Sometimes I am can get bitter still, but mostly I feel relieved.
"I don't give enough love to my children, I'm such a good parent"
This is the type of harm that religion does to people's brains
Oh yes. Confirmation bias is a total dangerous thing...
@@RandomTH-cam123 impractical for who?
@@kristianlincoln5818 You are a gamer
Second that!! As an atheist, this show is very entertaining, again religions of all kind need to be eliminated NOW
Living as a former Christian is like waking up from a bad dream and looking around you to see that almost everyone is a zombie.
To hear callers dumber than I was 3 years ago , is really sad.
It’s funny how Theists give God a pass on actions that, if they were carried out by a human, would be recognised as monstrous and evil.
Ain't that the truth.
Well put
@@massey904 Never saw anyone miss the point so completely.
Chris Massey Try reading what I actually wrote, troll. Or fuck off. One of the two.
Chris Massey Nope. I never said that, and you can’t even honestly conclude that from what I wrote. If a human were described doing the kinds of things God is described as doing, they’d be called an evil monster. But when God is described as doing those things, people like you say it’s holy and just and righteous. You give god a pass when you’d condemn a human.
Now fuck off under your bridge.
Caller: I'm gonna keep this brief...
(Call lasts 25 minutes)...
Standard warning to strap in for a long meander self absorbed wander before getting to a point, usually after Matt gets tired of their prolestitizing and barks at them.
First Rule of Theist Club is “Theists lie.”.
...and most of it is pointless rambling...
Dude, despite the fact that you “know” you’re right, but you’re wrong. Dead wrong. You’re harming your son, damaging him forever, and yes, your behavior corresponds perfectly with religion.
Yup religion and mental abuse go hand in hand
Especially when you think of this poor kid, crying because dad withholds affection, simultaneously being taught he was born bad and should spend his life being punished for it or he doesnt get to go to the happy place.
@@theghostsofstonyclove Songs from the Martin Luther handbook to happiness.
Agreed, and as an aside, here's a tip:
9 times out of 10 children know better than their parents whether they practice bad parenting or not.
To quote George Carlin, "parents must be the most full of shit people in the world".
The majority of them really are.
And lastly, we have evolved to be really emotionally needy beings, especially during childhood.
And for the longest time our species existed, infants slept with their parents, typically their mother, even during childhood. Koreans know what they're doing.
The caller is definitely a horrible father who doesnt know shit.
As for people that worry that their children might grow to be spoiled, or needy, or dependent, here's the thing: You really think your 30 year old son will say "hold my hand daddy" at that age?
Piss off, seriously. The vast majority of people cant wait to get out of their parents' roof and have their own place and start their own family. And this happens regardless of the type of parenting they got.
In fact, there's good evidence to suggest that the more emotionally unavailable and less nurturing the parents are, the more dependent and needy the children grow up to become when they reach adulthood.
It leaves trauma of unfulfilled parental care, so those mistreated children effectively become adults that cant really let go and become independent, because they constantly seek their parents' care and validation, not to mention approval. Its because they didnt get that when they were children, so it leaves an emotional scar and a void that they cant fill.
Russel (caller) doesnt know shit.
@@morpheas768, I fully agree.
My religious dad used to beat me in the name of Jesus. Now I have PTSD and a broken brain.
I'm so sorry about what you been through. May the elohiym bless you
Sorry for what you have been put through. Good luck with your future.
He doesn’t need “the elohim.”
I feel your pain. Mine did the same, with the same results. Please seek out assistance. A good therapist and medications go a long way for help. At least they did for me. It’s something I will work on until the day I die.
@@SasekoBloodraven there is nothing wrong to give blessings to other people. You might not believe it but that is your right. I know about over the counter medications and prescription from doctors. They completely ruined my friends life. Now she hears voices and there is no way to remove them. She goes to see a therapist everyday and she says it doesn't do much of anything. You see the government does not care for people's well being. It is about how much money they can make off each individual.
Blessings of Elohim are imaginary blessings. Why not just say blessings? You had to add a concept of God in there, like all theist do. It’s empty. And your anecdote about a friend that hears voices because of medications? It doesn’t happen that way. Of course someone that is so wrapped in theism would think it does. But if your “friend” is hearing voices, it’s because they aren’t taking the meds. Hearing voices is schizophrenia. I doubt the veracity of your tale.
This man needs therapy for sure, meds to help.
Hold your kid's damn hand. There will be a time soon enough when they won't want to. Do it while you can, they are little for a only a short while.
I like that
This religitard is going to give his kid abandonment issues.
My thoughts exactly.
Yep I kiss my little girl and tell her I love her constantly because soon there's gonna be a time where she either embarrassed or her friends make her feel embarrassed. Screw everyone else.
Damn straight. Your kids are going to be grown before you know it, and you will regret every moment that you had a chance to do something like that for them and chose not to.
The Daughter's Boyfriend Test
A teenage girl comes home with a black eye. Her boyfriend hit her. She makes excuses for him.
She says " He's just using tough love! " Does that excuse make it okay?
If not, why would that same excuse work for someone else?
Abuse is abuse. It's abuse for the boyfriend, the husband, the parent, and the god.
Not the god, the god would have to exist first, then it could be abusive. Boyfriends, Parents, and Husbands all exist.
"Because god gave us life"...
God is just redirected and disguised abuse.
@@coletrickle1775 Was Darth Vader abusive? Does the fact that he does not exist change the abusive nature of his actions? No. Fictional characters can be abusive within the context of their mythology, just as much as real people are. Also, there's also granting a premise for the sake of the discussion, especially when you are talking to people who are convinced that God is as real as you are.
@@zemorph42 Yep, you are right. I'm not saying that a book character can't have traits assosciated with it, I'm saying a god can't give that teen a black eye, because it would have to exist first.
This guy describing how he won’t even give his crying son love to help him fall asleep is breaking my heart 💔
I hope that kid doesn’t develop emotional issues later in life
He won’t develop emotional issues later in life because he is developing them right now.
he will. Hopefully he makes at least one contact who can present an appropriate (emotional) role model and picks up enough insight into self care to be able to deal with those emotional issues, later in life.
Not likely.
I hope the kid finds his way into the custody of a better parent.
2 years late, but I thought of my own son. I would rush to comfort him. Yes, maybe he won't always have me and it 'makes sense' to not always be there, how could I deny that moment to my child? The whole reason I would is BECAUSE he won't always have me or his mom. I want him to know that I will always be there for him, if I can do so. Children are not adults. They need that support and attachment so they can build trust to others later and know what a good and loving relationship looks like. To teach my child that denial of love is love seems insane. I want them to know what proper love and affection is, because if they do they'll know what abuse is and that it's wrong. Broke my heart to hear a father wouldn't take opportunities to be there for his child when the child is yearning for that reassurance.
It seems kids have it easier to stop believing in Santa than it is for adults to let go of fairy tales.
Yes, that's right.
The mind of a child is more flexible and better at assimilating new information. An adult's mind has grown rigid and hard, solidified in his ways of thinking. It makes changing your thought-ways much more difficult
@@lukewojtanowicz1991
Plus, Santa has no control over life and death.
Christians, Muslims don't want to die. No one does.
So they have an afterlife to appease their fears.
That's the difference between the Easter Bunny and Jesus.
Santa is real!!!
What? Santa’s not real?
Russell took 20-min to say “God works in mysterious ways”
🤣🤣🤣🤣
That’s the theist saying ‘i don’t know’.
God works in dilirious ways.
Aron Ra
And at the beginning he said he didnt want to take up too much time, ill keep this short. lol
*IMMA KEEP DIS BREEF*
Home is where a child should feel loved and nurtured. The rest of the world won't be so kind.
This!
TRUTH!!
Gotta validate their feelings.
@@shroomer8294 Or just treat them as human beings with respect, dignity, and kindness?
@@shroomer8294 seriously? Smh
Christopher Hitchens once said:
"I never get tired of debating theists because you'll never know what they're gonna say next".
I miss him every day.
And yet every time they put that old broken record.
He must’ve been being sarcastic. They all say the same shit
I'm six three, big built, ex bouncer. My Mum, to her dying day, insisted on hugs all the time. My friends got them too, if they came to my house, including mates who came over still wearing their bike gear. One if my oldest friends still recalls as a teenager, when she got hugs from Mum that she never got at home.
What's wrong with hugs and kisses or hand holding, especially when children are little? Holding a child's hand is so little effort, and means so much. "Tough love" is often an excuse for the lazy or those who have difficulty with their own emotions.
@ Peter Mirtitsch You hit the nail on the head. So many adult rules and behaviors toward children are derived from us adults’ difficulty with our own emotions - all the rules and order demanded in classrooms, even for very young children, all the segregation of children in the first place, tiresome lecturing, demands of respect and fealty, indoctrination, literal and emotional neglect, and so on.
'Tough love' is really only necessary for the protection and betterment of your children, such as not always letting them eat unhealthy food or endlessly play video games etc. 'Hugs and kisses' is just 'love' and should be freely administered (particularly in the young)!
Probably the most bizarre post I’ve ever read. What does your size have you do with anything? Is that supposed to mean you can’t fall or have your ass beat by someone smaller than you? Are you really that naive? Also, being a bouncer or ex bouncer…not a badge of honor AT ALL. It just screams that you weren’t intelligent enough to find a better job. You seem quite self-deluded and egotistical with a huge amount of ego on the side. Please, stay in your UK shithole
@@pechaai see you’re just as confused and ignorant as the post you responded to. Congratulations 🍾🎉🎈
It amazes me how a person says there is a supreme being, cannot prove this being without a doubt exist, BUT can tell you *IN DETAIL* what this invisible being wants.
Amazing !
It sound like you may have had the luxury of not being indoctrinated it was true since before you could put rational thoughts together. I was in one of the less restrictive groups that accepts mainstream science, but still has a bedrock of god is true and the bible is his inspired word (so may have errors), just figure out the rest and how that applies to modern life. Surprise, surprise, god tends to be for most everything you and social groups you are in think sounds good, and is not at all like those extreme denominations think.
@@SnowmanTF2 so what is keeping you believing?
@@dark666razor I have not been a believer for around 15 years
@@SnowmanTF2 i guess i read it wrong then
Not to mention that he's beyond our understanding, but they know that we deserve nothing.
Why do the callers always start with: "First of all I'd like to say I'm going to keep this short and to the point...i'd just like to say it's a pleasure to talk to you, Matt..I've been a big fan for years., my wife loves you...i'll keep this short and get right to the point...is that ok, matt?...i've been a big fan for years...so I'll get straight to the point and i know you have other callers waiting...how are you matt?....so..here goes....i'll keep it short and to..."
...just get on with it!!
Trying to SUCK UP with Matt ! .................
If they were smart, they’d be atheists.
It's a shame he didn't stop to say how nervous he was too.
All of that, then the silly seque into some story about their dog when they were a child.
They're just nervous, don't worry too much about it.
My mom basically treated me the way you are treating your kids. Because of that, I have struggled not to feel unwanted and unloved by her, and to avoid self destructive behaviors that those horrible feelings lead to, my entire life. So no dude, you pretty much arent doing what's best for the kids. Hold his fkn hand and be a loving father. I'm not saying give in to every tantrum or demand. But withholding love and affection? That's poison.
I have had the same exact experience. But yet, my mother to this day doesn’t understand where these feelings are coming from. Probably because she thought she was doing best for me.
Totally poisonous... the effects of this treatment has never left me. Therapy, medication. Nothing can help me to get over the feeling that I wasn't wanted or loved and in fact I was made to feel like my existence was a total burden. It has shaped who I am to my core and it infects every aspect of my life, school, career, relationships, personal goals, and most importantly my relationship with myself. It kills me that so many other people also go through this and we all just suffer silently.
I'm so sorry you had to live that. I hope you will find love and happiness
Same my mother gave me up to a family member with four older daughters for fear of cps taking me away but my adoptive mother spanked me till my but was numb whenever i did something wrong
@@ksarah1162 oh man i know that feeling i was never wanted and im pretty sure our adoptive mother got divorced cause dad didnt want me and my twin
As someone who not only grew up in a secular household, but in a secular country and society, I can confirm that I've never at any point in my life gotten close to believing in a god or even taking the idea seriously.
I've often said that I don't think Americans often appreciate how weird their country is when it comes to religion. And the levels of religiosity in America have more in common with Iran or Saudi Arabia than they do with the majority of European nations. In my country, religious people are actually the outlier, and the overwhelming majority of people of my generation, are atheist. I think Scott using the term "indoctrination" is perfectly reasonable; religion and religious thinking REQUIRES reinforcement. Whether it's on a cultural level or a personal level, it requires in some way the normalization of magical thinking for someone to buy into it.
Some people are fortunate enough to never experience that.
@@deimoskaischylos But there are also the very intelligent people who are on the front lines fighting covid. And people like me who see wearing masks as the same as wearing your seatbelt.
@@deimoskaischylos
Most species don't have the capability of creating masks, let alone wearing them.
I don't think mask wearing can be correlated with an extinction level event.
@@deimoskaischylos
You said you are sometimes surprised our species has made it this long ... because people don't wear masks????
Be grateful, I am surrounded by evangelicals
@@leslieshand4509 Oh dear.
2:02 "My youngest one is always crying at night saying to his Mother, you know, Why won't Dad hold his hand when we go to sleep at night? He's upset, he's crying... I'm just trying to let him know he can't have attachments all the time.. I have to be upset"
So that would be: *Not a Dad right* ?
Not only can you hold your son's hand every night, you can even hug him and console him and say you'll do your best to always be there for him. Somehow YOU think the opposite of this? Your poor poor son :( Lets hope he has the complete opposite of your old fashioned outdated horribly unloving views.
HOLD HIS DAMN HAND you monster!
This part made me so sad and angry.
@@stephysteph8558 The irony his son will desperately seek the physical attention of another man, and that any common Priest will pick that up, is also devastating. He is setting his son up to fall. :(
Holding my 1 year old at night so he can fall asleep is what I do almost every night. I don’t understand what he’s talking about it.
He talks about his ‘youngest one’ so oddly, I’m not convinced any offspring actually exist. It’s just a convenient way to peddle his very strange “parable of the incompetent father” to get God off the hook.
@@rojh9351 I think he does have a son. His poor understanding of being a Father is nurtured through believing in a claimed Father figure who demands: Love me or else burn.
Believing in such a monstrous thing could easily cause critical issues with his own demands on his own children.
I feel he does have a younger child plus obviously older children. His poor parenting technique is not as bad as others even (as he clearly is willing to follow authoritative demands) its just that he's clearly following the advice of a reported monster.
How sad for this guy... the delusional thoughts in his head are spilling over to his parental responsibility but it's okay for him because a god is involved. I'm actually very shocked!
@Gary Thistle I am glad this guy isn't my neighbor. He seems to think he is the only one that has his "unique" thoughts about the basic issues, and only his are the correct ones. WTF knows what he is ultimately capable of.
I know, how the fuck do you rationalize when your son is sitting there crying, "Can you please hold me?" and you decide that no, "I'm doing this for your own good"?
Why not take the child's intentions and wants into account in this scenario, EVEN if somehow you could prove that holding him is not the best action (which, by the way, I'm completely unconvinced is not true)?
It's a LITTLE KID. Why the fuck are you concocting all these scenarios that somehow you have to "prepare him" for life. What the fuck is this?
All the science that I'm aware of is that a parent's/guardian's love for their children is one of the most important variables in a child's mental health, and their long-term ability to live happy lives. Look up about Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE's) and the impact that can have on children's mental health.
I'm not actually angry at the father, either. I think he's delusional and needs help, as well, about proper boundaries, family dynamics, child development, and the existence of an invisible dictator.
The sad reality of it is, I dont think he became that way because of his religious views. I think he first got to be an irrational person who would later become a horrible parent, and then he adopted those religious views because they are a good match for his mindset and personality.
@@morpheas768 Well either way, it's clear that now the consequences of his actions is a child suffering, so it would need to be addressed from a clinical perspective regardless of how his mind came to be in the first place.
@@morpheas768
Many were indoctrinated using the same techniques from their parents... thus view what produced them and their belief in their elevated position, their correctness, as the proper way to indoctrinate their kids to be correct. Don’t even allow disagreement with the parents, because that’s ‘disrespect’, but to guide someone or address disagreement you have to allow and admit the disagreement.
I found out that my late dad told my mother that he didn't touch me and my sister much or show affection because he thought it was gay and didn't want to be gay. In the handful of positive memories I have of him, the most vivid one was him carrying me to bed after I fell asleep on the couch.
Fathers out there, stop this jackass mentality of 'can't hold them too much or they'll grow up soft'. It's damaging.
I agree with you. I recently read somewhere that, at one time in the U.S., it was very common and encouraged for parents not to hold or touch their children "too much." This is one of the reasons why Dr. Spock was very important in our culture - he encouraged love, affection and cuddling between children and parents. Thank you Dr. Spock, an American hero.
@@kumaranvij The cosmic ballet goes on.
My dad did the same with me. He was afraid of touching me inappropriately. So he didnt want to touch me so I would me molested. Weird af.
@@stephaniemccord8677 the fuck? 🤦♂️ As a parent, I KNOW you can’t get it all right but I hate this idea of sticking to unfounded ideas and make believing you have nothing you can do about it. LOOK IN TO IT. 😯 Scary stuff man!
I need to thank my mom for raising us completely secularly. She was raised Catholic and still believes that there's "something out there", but she kept it completely out of our lives. She was surprised when I told her I was an atheist in my teens, but completely accepting. I take that for granted too much.
Every call into the atheist experience:
1. Saying it’s an honor to be on the show.
2. Long irrelevant story that supposedly brings backstory to their point, usually containing a fallacy that is called out
3. Caller ignores and continues to persistently push their argument even though a fallacy has been called out.
4. After some back and forth, caller gets fed up, as though it’s no longer an honor to be on the show.
5. Call ends.
I could watch this for hours though. Haha
Not every call, just every theist call.
my Big 3 filter when I'm looking for clips:
1 - is the caller a theist
2 - did they immediately flash their "atheist creds" ("...I used to be an atheist, a super dooper mega inner circle atheist of the eleventeenth degree...")?
3 - did they immediately drop to their knees and begin fellating the hosts? ("It's such an honour/I've been listening for so long/you've helped me develop my critical reasoning skills blahblahblah")
satisfying these 3 criteria all but guarantees an entertaining call *(bonus points if blowing the hosts involves claims about how much more logically/rationally they think/argue thanks to the hosts/show....)*
I could also watch it for hours, and I do
My atheist dad is so much more nurturing and ethical than my Christian mom. Even when I was a Catholic as a child, I knew I could not believe in a God who would condemn him to hell for not believing in something that God refuses to show or prove (though he has the ability to do so!) Again, he was more "Christian" in actual deeds than any Christian I have ever met.
Later, I wished he had been a bit less passive with his atheism than he was. I used to pray for him to convert. Now I wish he had worked a bit more to de-convert me. I came to skepticism and science and empiricism and am teaching my 5 children the same, but how much pain and guilt could have been avoided if atheists were more assertive, like Matt.
"I have to let my son be upset, and hate me in that moment." Great fuckin father. What'd the kid do, eat one too many cookies before bedtime?
I hug my kids, tell them I love them, attended every musical/play performance and cried my fucking eyes out. They're now two very compassionate adults that I'm incredibly proud of. Love your kids, people. Always.
Even if a god could be proven, why worship it? I just don't understand the need to worship anything for any reason.
even if a god could be proven, why would it need &/or demand to be worshiped? ... unless the untransformed human psyche itself has been projected outwardly
I worship chocolate! Not every kind. Cadbury plain chocolate only. Oh how I worship it.
@@danhemming6624 But you can have multiple types of chocolate.
This Christian god demands worship - quite a guy eh?
Thats why religion needs the threat of magical torture, and the promise of a magical happy-land; Without the carrot and stick of heaven/hell (or "good/bad re-incarnation", or 1,000 other variants), simple god-belief is unlikely to co-erce behavior change.
My heart hurts for this guys kids. I tell my kid I love her even when she’s being naughty.... I feel like I am filling her bank with love. We want our kids to be able to care for themselves.... but why not hold their hand at 3?!? I dunno... just strikes me as off/wrong.
I totally agree with you. They grow so quick and doesn't matter how rich or how poor you are affection and love and nurturing is the most important thing they need. I can't even imagine not giving my children cuddles etc when they want/need one - I feel so sorry for his kids 😔
keep doing it. kids remember. when i was about 7 we moved and in the new place i had my own room when i had previously shared a queen sized bed with my two older sisters my whole life. my dad tried for months to get me to sleep in my own room in my own bed. i remember months on end of me terrified and lonely, screaming and crying out for my sisters and my mom, but he insisted. it never worked and i think it back fired. even as a teenager i would drag my mattress down the hall and sleep on my sister's floor. but those nights are some of my most vivid memories of that time in my childhood.
@@Visshaldar ugh... that sounds heartbreaking. He probably thought it was “good for you”. But terrifying your kid is not good.
My daughter is about to be 2. Every day I pour my heart into her. She is my world.
@@James-yi1vk mine just turned two. Omg... such a wonderful developmental moment! Every second get to be her best friend is my best moment. She’s getting to be so independent and running away and laughing. Just a little while ago she only wanted to cling to my hand.
They change so fast. Why not bask in these beautiful early years of nothing but sweet baby love?
Scott is so lucky to have been raised in a secular home.
It's great Russell called in and spoke about his experience.
It will make his children's future therapy so such easier by being able to just play this back instead of trying to explain it.
He's talking about infants... not teenagers. Making them cry like that is inhuman.
Also not being there for your teenager in whatever way you can is inhuman too. They're just a lot more complicated at that point, but honestly it's just so sad to hear this call how he neglects his child :(
Hey Matt, thanks for letting Scott field the parenting question. I was screaming at my phone and I am not even a parent...
"God isn't abusive, he's using tough love." That's why I'm agnostic.
☺
Agnostic Theist or Agnostic Atheist?
DUDE JUST LOVE YOUR CHILD! Hold his hand! Wow... he thinks he is avoiding some kind of attachment issue while is creating a whole different one...wtf. You children WILL get your attention. If its not in a nice wholesome way like YOUR SON IS ASKING FOR, he's gonna get it in a negative way.
My friends dad raised him with "tough love". I helped him move to his college dorm after high school. The second we rolled off of the farm he said to me "I will never sleep under that fucking roof again!" He never did. He died in an accident at 36. I talked with his father before the funeral. That dude will never forgive himself for what he did.
Look into the childhood histories of any tyrant or serial killer and you'll find a father who denied the love and affection that the child needed.
An anecdote about the "let Jesus take the wheel comment". This comes from an airline pilot I used to know. One of his earlier jobs was for a less reliable cargo outfit. He once had his engine go out, and the other pilot he was with threw his hands in the air and said "it's all in god's hands now". My friend said he would have punched him if he wasn't so busy trying to land the plane. So, this does happen sometimes...
I got ya/ I understand where you're coming from: you've found the fallacies in my reasoning so I am going to stop the conversation and change subject immediately in order to hold on to what I want to believe
This is not a religious phenomenon, it's very common with people and I hope I am not like this.
I held my son's hand till he went to sleep for years. It wasn't easy but now that he is grown I so miss it. Don't ever deny love to your children. On a side note - I found out years later that he had severe anxiety as a symptom of autism - I'm so happy that the least I could do was sooth his anxiety for a little every day.
"I don't want to waste your time" - then proceeds to waste everybody's time for half a frikkin' hour!
Scott has a confident and reassuring presence and a killer smile.
Most of my life I wanted to believe god existed. I would pray every night before going to sleep for god to send me a sign, speak to me, anything to prove he/it existed. Should be easy for god to do that, especially for someone who desperately wanted to believe. After decades, I got nothing. I now believe that man created god. I don't know it, but it seems to me the most logical answer. And if someone tells me the evidence of his existence is the bible, I discount that out of hand. Just starting with the fairy tale of genesis makes it impossible to believe any claims in that book. And if there were one true god, wouldn't there just be one book for every culture all over the world? There are thousands of god beliefs. They can't all be right, obviously. But they sure can all be wrong.
I sometimes feel the Abrahamic religions bank on people not reading their own Bible. Genesis literally uses words to refer to multiple Gods, depicts slavery of an innocent man by force, and has easily disproved facts of reality. I'm a writer for a living... It took me a long time before I started reading the book as fiction and not as some deep understanding of the mankind. It was then that I realized the stories make more sense when you see the writings as man trying to make a story and doing a bizarre job. I remember taking a post it note and labeling it when a random detail was brought up that made no sense, almost as if they were making up the story on the spot and added a number or name dropped a witness for the sake of impressing the reader.
@@cfltournaments8406 It is mostly a work of fiction.
There are multiple sources of evidence that show and prove explicitly that men created the abrahamic gods and how they did it. There are many sources that do the same for the (even) older gods created by women. There are even multiple sources that show how men stole their gods from women and created the abrahamic gods out of them, and the efforts made to hide these facts. You can learn a lot about human history reading/exploring them, and the stories are much more interesting.
@@kissit012 didn't know about the hiding part but wouldn't be surprised. Now I'm excited to look into this
@@cfltournaments8406 Don't leave out how anti woman the bible is. God and Satan also go to Vegas together and place bets on folk like Job: If you kill his family, livestock and take away his wealth, he will curse you God, said Satan. God said...Hold my wrath and watch my work. Like literally playing GAMES like a roulette table with a so called Faithful God servers life! Just you cant make this shite up. But they did.
My daughter is 34 years old I am 65. I was certain that I was doing the right thing many times while raising her. Now 65 looking back the quantity of idiocy is overwhelming
"The first great virtue of mankind was the doubt and the first great defect the faith"- Carl Sagan
As the great Robert G Ingersoll said:
“I refuse to take parenting advice from a being who drowned his children.”
Thank you, Scott & Matt.
I've put my children to sleep and will lay with them until they are confident (old enough,) to tell me "I'm OK." My kids know that I love them and understand that I won't always be there but they know I love them.
Yeah, "it's tough love" is sort of the trademark defense of abusers, right next to "they made me do it" which is also a staple of "god"
You know when someone says "I'll keep it brief" that they won't.
Love the way conversations are broken down to specifics to select from. Matt and others are my heroes. I've learned so much, never complete, as knowledge cannot be, but damn, I appreciate All of YOU in the AXP. Sincere to tears.
Wow. Withholding affection from your children... creating sociopaths... awesome.
When I was young and couldn't/wouldn't admit I was an atheist, I searched for ways to make the world conform to what the church was telling me. Things like "Evolution is the tool god used", etc. One of these was "god didn't do anything here on earth only once, why would he do this earth only one time." Part of the wedge that made me admit (to myself) that I was an atheist.
You are going to make your child feel anxious for the rest of his life and he won't even know why he will feel this way.
Why is "God's plan" taking so long it's been thousands of years
He takes days off. He's getting there.
What you fail to understand is that Gawd's time scale is way different than ours. A couple of thousand years to us, but Gawd's coffee-break danish isn't even out of the microwave yet.
You've got to learn to think these things through.
@@stefanbjarnason251 Since the universe is only 6000 years old, he better hurry up.
How many suffered and died needlessly because humans didn't understand germ theory until not so long ago? What is their god thinking, oh I will let them die from easily preventable disease for a couple thousand years until I'll inspire someone to discover that washing your hands regularly will dramatically increase your chances of survival. Or inspire someone to come up with a medicine to kill that disease. Nonsense.
To immortals, a century is like yesterday.
Kids need 3 things from their parents: Time, attention and love. Depriving them of these pretty much always leads to behavioral issues. In particular, kids who need attention will act out intentionally because even getting negative attention from a parent is better than none at all in their minds. Withholding showing love to your child will also create a human who has issues expressing their feelings toward others. In his defense, the last thing he wants is a totally dependent child, but this is still a child and should be treated as such.
Russell, hold your son's hand, please?! Stop the damage today!
For a second I felt a bit jealous of Scott when he said he's never believe in god... -_-
This dude is on to something.
He should write out this thoughts and send a treatment to Hollywood. Working title: Prometheus.
Prometheus was a based titan.
Unfortunately this guy may end up raising kids with issues. Either they will be brick walls to emotion and unable to connect or empathize or they could have serious attachment issues if they feel they didn't get what they needed from their father
God is not "Abusive"
II Kings 2: 23-24: “From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking up the path, some small boys came out of the city and harassed him, chanting, ‘Go up, baldy! Go up, baldy!’ He turned around, looked at them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two female bears came out of the woods and mauled 42 of the children.”
So, children insult someone and God, kills the Children. Yea. Real, "Moral" and not at all "Abusive"
Very well put
@pan dimensional super being 🤣
@pan dimensional super being hey bro, cells dont have sex.....
@@dark666razor
Especially not incels.
@@dark666razor
They don't?
Sexual reproduction is a type of reproduction that involves a complex life cycle in which a gamete (such as a sperm or egg cell) with a single set of chromosomes (haploid) combines with another to produce an organism composed of cells with two sets of chromosomes (diploid). Sexual reproduction is the most common life cycle in multicellular eukaryotes, such as animals, fungi and plants.
Matt's voice is so comforting, like a fluffy logical knowledge blanket.
"Send a bear to maul your child" heyoooo
@Grungus Khan The caller, although a Christian, probably had no idea to what Scott was alluding to by the bear mauling reference.
The 'tough love' argument is bankrupt. If you're a parent and you find yourself defendiing genocide or eternal punishment, you should probably re-examine your parenting choices.
Bruh your kids should always know they can count on you and that you're there when they need you. That will not keep them from being independent as they grow up. It will actually help.
Parents need to be the rock, the safe place. Somewhere kids can come back to when they need. I'm not advocating coddling, believe me, but kids need to know they have a place to go that will accept them unquestioningly.
Great job by Scott as a guest host.
Yep. Not sure how they got Star Lord on. Guess he has free-time now that Thanos is dead.
Bring him back more often
"God's using tough love", LoL. Ya, because we're all a bunch of sin junkies and the whole world needs an intervention, LoL. Where do people come up with this stuff?
Decades of indoctrination
What if the gods been reversed ? What then
@@elohiymkingdom9453 What do you mean, please explain?
@@SongWhisperer for example let's say that there are two deities. Let's say the government changed ancient texts( all religious text) to hide human kind true identity.
@@elohiymkingdom9453 Very interesting, well I guess we couldn't rule that out.
The first caller needs to chill out. Holding his son's hand isn't going to make that child weak. It will demonstrate how much his father loves him.
What is wrong with people sometimes?
It’s a Wildy amazing concept that some of the best atheists out there grew up surrounded by large amounts of religion
Withholding affection from children is cruel and does them no favors in their development.
This guy says his child will "never understand" why he as a father withheld affection... why not? His child will become an adult just like anyone else
He will resent his dad as an adult, and hopefully treat his own kids better
How can I not click with a thumbnail like that?
Just what happened to me, same upbringing as Scott, and the same reaction, everybody actually believed that stuff except me. My religious education teacher was so frustrated about my questions he called my atheist parents, well he only called them once.
God !! The absentee landlord and deadbeat dad !!
Wow, this is awesome, my two favorite atheist debaters, as a tag team! theists don't stand a chance on this one!
Scott’s handsome face will turn so many theists 😇🥰
I’ll definitely say give as much love to your kids when they’re young... it reverberates throughout our whole life. I was never told “I love you” when I was a kid and to this day I struggle when someone genuinely loves me because it’s a feeling that’s still foreign to me.
14:28 “God is an alien, himself” and Matt loses a bit of his soul.
At 4 years old, my mom read the story of Abraham and Isaac to me from this beautifully illustrated children’s bible. I remember asking her if she would kill me, if God told her to. Her response, “Baby, it would be really hard because I love you so much, but I love Jesus so much that I would have to.” I think she meant it. I’m 40 years old now, and if I asked her today, I’d get the same response.
Russel's behaving like his brutal, criminal godthing. demonstrating love towards another being is never wrong nor excessive.
I am also, like Mr. Clifton, never been a believer. The closest I came to believing was an instance after a church service when the preacher who was raising me as a temporary adoptee suggested I pray for relief when I mentioned I had a headache. It went away about an hour after praying. I was awed, but eventually, it wasn't nearly enough to sway my beliefs. ( I was about ten years old at the time.)
Russell needs to understand that growing up will provide that detachment naturally to his children as they age and want to spend time with friends, not parents. By trying to force that early you may be harming your kids. Children need to feel secure and a big part of that is to feel trust in their parent, that their love in unconditional.
I was born and raised a 4th generation Bible Student ( a small Christian sect who were the forerunners of the Jehovah's Witnesses ). The Bible Students were the founders of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. As a Bible Student our life was completely absorbed into a culture of 8 hour meetings on Sunday, door to door witnessing and/or day long indoctrination sessions for young people on one Saturday a month. Attending mid week meetings held at congregational member's homes in the evening. Growing up a Bible Student meant living a life wholly devoted to serving God at every moment. My childhood peers and I were raised to live a self imposed isolation from the "world" because we were the only ones on the entire planet that had the "truth." The indoctrination was extreme and thorough. It took many years and some very hard experiences to bring me to the point where I could even permit myself to question my beliefs. Once I did, it was a gradual drifting out of the faith. The death of my grandparents and father all happening within a few short years of each other in the mid 1990s started me down the path of questioning my "faith." But in 2001 when my brother committed suicide at age 44 I simply could not cope. My life and marriage was falling apart. I began drinking to deal with the pain, got a DUI which threatened my job. I began to see for the first time that my values, and beliefs had not prevented my life from coming apart. I was sent to a mandatory State run weekend program on alcoholism and drug abuse. There they had a representative from AA speak to the group. I know, the AA speaker at a State run/funded mandated program is unconstitutional, but I didn't know AA was a religion then. I jumped in with both feet, while at the same time feeling guilty that I was betraying the faith I was raised in, i.e. the "truth." None the less I felt comfortable in AA, because the meeting format was familiar, and strongly resembled the meeting structure of my childhood religion. But after five years of being very active in AA I began to realize that they offered no more help and understanding than did my childhood faith. I began secular counseling, at the strong objection of many of the AA friends I made. After five years of attending AA I abruptly left because of an incident which made it clear AA was no different than the religion I was raised to believe. Both AA and the Bible Students were cults. From that point I began asking myself why I believed the Bible, why did I believe in God. It wasn't easy at first dealing with the shame and guilt, but then I realized in my mid 50s that there is no good reason to believe the Bible haas any validity. That's when I became an atheist. For many it might not take so long, or the hold is too much for them. But it really took very harsh experiences and a long period of time to get to the point where I would allow myself to open my mind to the possibility that God might not be real. Now I am in my mid 60s and have been an atheist for about 10 years or so.
" I am gonna rescue Russell from you" Nice " rescue", Clifton . You slayed poor Russell ( and deservedly so).
I absolutely love this team: Scott and Matt. 👍🏻
I enjoyed Scott’s contributions 👍🏽
What many “tough love” proponents don’t realise is that studies have demonstrated that, ironically and sadly, withholding love/affection tends to actually cause a child to either be more clingy or else shut down emotionally. Giving a child affection and security when they are young gives them the foundation for having healthy strong relationships as adults as well as the confidence to explore the world. Unfortunately fundamentalist Christianity has been implicated in multiple cases of child abuse and even death with the Perl’s book “How to train up a child” influential in guiding these Christian families on how they should discipline children into complete obedience through harsh punishments (recommending they start using severe methods from just a few months old). The fact that the Bible has been used to legitimise the abuse and subjugation of vulnerable children, causing them untold damage, is a terrible example of the dangers of religion.
That bloody book promotes abuse. It's a disgrace.
This is an addition. Cats in the Craddle is a song he needs to listen to. That song sums this guy up.
"Scientific ass point" 😅
Both my wife and I never withheld affection with our two children. Hugs, kisses, encouragement. Both children grew up happy, successful and great parents in their own rights.
Wow, hold your child’s hand.... it’s ok to make your young children feel safe and teach them to stand on their own in age appropriate ways.
"Scientific asspoint..."
OMG, I'm dying!
"Where there's smoke, there's fire" is a logical fallacy. It's always disheartening to hear someone openly state that they are a fan of a logical fallacy.
Matt’s facial expression when he said God could be an alien. 😂😂😂 I think I read every thought you had in that moment. 😂😂😂
I'm horrified by Russell's statements about how he raises his sons. I'm not an expert on child psychology and/or development, but I did raise a son, who's now 22. I always cultivated a strong bond with him, singing his lullaby when bringing him to bed, reading with him at bed time, we took showers together when he was small (and had light saber fights in the bathroom with the lights off!), he could always come to me for a big hug. The child will indicate when he/she is ready to move on to the next stage. The bed time reading stopped when he had become a proficient reader himself. The showers together stopped when he was old enough to take his own showers. And instead of coming to me for a hug, he came to me with questions for which he needed an answer. But my son in each case made it clear when he was ready for the next stage. But in every stage, he knew I was there for him and that he could rely on me, and that's what he carried over to the next stage. As a parent, it is your responsibility to create an environment for the child of love, respect, safety, trust, honesty, and also fun; and most importantly, to grow with your child, to adept to the maturing of your child from baby, to toddler, to to "child", to teenager, to adolescent, to grown-up. To this day I have a deep and strong bond with my son, and he still knows he can count on me.
I like your attitude and your healthy parenting style.
I have no kids, but I have a deep respect for them, in that they are literally our future.
They are both sponges and mirrors.
They soak up whatever you teach them, then they reflect your values and manners.
I always jump at the chance to teach a child or children about gardening, butterflies and pollinators.
Everyone has something to pass on.
Matt i love your smack upside the head realism. If you ever get to debate in person i wanna be in the front row. Love your show from a new atheist. More power to you!!!!
The aliens came. They digested the internet, belched, farted and left.
"...and [my kid] can't depend on me and I'm not always gonna be there..." Holy self-report Batman.
Hold his hand without condition, that’s love.
Don't be silly, you'll be there until 3am and then they will EXPECT that every night. You make them feel loved by the way you raise them OVERALL and that carries them through the small upsets that they don't yet understand - and then they turn 5 and they start to understand anyway.
@@joelonsdale you hold their hand and see what happens.
@@getbennt Yeah, in the land of infinite patience where the kitchen doesn't need cleaning and you don't want to spend anytime with your wife.
@@joelonsdale I’m a good cook, know why, it’s because mom had no time to hold my hand while she got me cooking.
@@joelonsdale then you make a compromise and explain that you will be there for 5 minutes and if they don't fall asleep within 5 minutes then you have to go because you have to go to sleep. There are ways to make this work
Scott, you virtually depicted my exact same experience with my added reality of growing up as part of a specific religion. Oh, the fucking hell I went through... And it carried on into my adulthood, where conforming was the only way I knew how to cope. I vowed never to inflict it on my children and grandchildren. Sometimes I am can get bitter still, but mostly I feel relieved.
They are so young, cuddle them while they still want you to!! This was so sad to listen to honestly
Such a man of God that he refuses to hold his sons hand at night😢 I couldn't imagine being so devoid like that
You can not imagine that he is mentally damaged? Of course he it.
Well, god's father was a mean drunk and beat him, so he's just perpetuating the pattern
You guys are the best ! I love your channel.