what do you mean NA ego paycheck? Like “i’m really good i need good pay?” or people trying to build a brand and be a big name? All the time i wish NA was more centralized and we grew up with pc cafes like europe so there were more people. The few amount of NA cs players seems to make it hard for any teams or brands to give out money and makes it harder for them to get paid IMO
@@notverysmart42069 no so what freakazoid was trying to say is there were more players in the NA scene who cared more about the money or salary then actually winning. Like RANK S/FPL wasn’t really used as a way to get better by playing with all the better players/pros but way to make money. This obviously doesn’t apply to everyone but he was saying that was the problem with NA, their main goal wasn’t winning. And there are plenty of NA CS players and good ones but why would an ORG invest in players if they will just dip to another game. If you look at majority of the Val pros. They’re all washed NA pros or pug stars who never made it.
Completely agree with Chad's point about CS players needing to realise that the life of an elite competitor in anything cannot be treated like a nine to five. When a player like Nikola Jokic (Serbian Basketball player) wants to be an elite basketball player he has to leave Serbia and move his life to the US. If a friend back in Serbia has a birthday during the season then he just has to miss it. He doesn't complain about it, because that's what being an elite level competitor is. When Christian Pulisic (USA football/soccer player) shows great promise as a youngster he has a choice to make. Does he want to stay in the US and not be an elite competitor, or move to Europe and be an elite competitor. He moves to Germany, and now the UK, because that's what it takes to be an elite footballer. He'll probably move back once he retires, but he commits to living in Europe because that's what being an elite footballer involves. Wherever you're from, if you're an elite tennis player you spend your entire career going from country to country, from tournament to tournament. If your Aunt's funeral happens in the UK midway through the Australian Open, guess what? You're in Australia. Even somebody like LeBron James, an American playing in an American league, if his best friend has a wedding in New York but his team is playing a home game in LA, well then he's not at the wedding. Being an elite competitor is not a normal life. You have to make sacrifices. I respect Ethan, like Chad, as he analysed things and decided his priorities didn't line up with being an elite competitor in Counter Strike. That's totally fine and his choice. But I just think it's unrealistic to try to say CS should be this utopia where you don't have to miss birthdays, weddings etc when it doesn't exist for basically any level of elite competition. Elite competition involves making that sport, or esport, or whatever your main focus in life for your career because you value being elite so much. You get compensated heavily for doing so, and then when you chose to stop competition you have a tonne of cash which allows you to not have to work and have way more free time than the average person and kind of catch up on the rest of life. Obviously an over-simplification, but those were just the thoughts Chad and Jason's conversation spawned into my head. Great show as always, with a great guest. Thanks for the content guys.
The one difference between those and esports is that esports is online, and you can to some portions of the job from literally anywhere. And, the scale of the money involved, is light years of difference. None of these players are going to be worth a billion (lebron) or hundreds of millions, or even close. So they aren't going to make the same sacrifices. They aren't compensated heavily relative to any other sport.
@@2639theboss 1 - it's not usually online though. Pre-pandemic online CS basically didnt exist for top tier play 2 - Not on the same level as some sports sure, but the $250k a year plus prize money that a lot of these players are making is still a tonne of money, and more than many elite sportspeople in more niche sports are making who also make these sacrifices. Again, it's a choice, theres nothing wrong with (like Ethan) saying that amount of compensation isnt personally worth it for you, but that is the choice an elite competitor has to make.
@@robreid5229 But most of these players arent making that much money. Its not even close. Thats the prize money for a top tier event that teams like astralis are winning. And do you really think that all goes to the players? If these players were making even 100 to 200k a year, you'd know, but you don't see them flaunting their money like actual young sports stars.
Just wanna say to Moses's comment about casters that I think Harry & Hugo have come really far and have solidified themselves as great casters at this point. Perhaps to Moses the hype Launders & Scrawny bring is the most important factor, but I think some of the on the fly analysis H&H come out with is really impressive, and really well communicated to the audience. Have to agree that Machine & Spunj are still the top of the list for a grand final though.
As much as I love how dedicated oSee is to the Extra Salt players, I believe it would be in his best interest to head to EG in place of CeRq. Hell, he should've taken the opportunity to be part of the original colossus.
@@PooplexCanal 59:10 From this I infer that CeRq maybe wants to leave EG and head back to Europe to join either an international lineup or go back to his roots in a Bulgarian one. Can't blame him though he's 21 and been in the NRG-EG core for four years.
@@PooplexCanal Cause they might need fresh blood and osee is one of the best snipers in na, prob the best not in a Top Team. Replacing Ethan might not be enough, but maybe it is, who knows. Cerq might want to go to a team like Skade, as they've got some talent in rainwaker and shipz, trying to grow his scene. Who knows, maybe even an international team if someone needs an awper, maybe G2 idk
maybe NA teams could invest in academy teams that compete at teir 2 or teir 3? to me that would fix the issue of having to teach new players everything when u add them to the main roster. along with giving some players a platform to get a brand and a following early on. Of course money might be an issue but its just a thought.
I think Gambit's recent roster was Gambit Kids or whatever, it is an academy roster that they graduated to Gambit and they just popped off. So I agree with this point.
Top athletes do also have a life besides their sport. And they compete until a way older age because of this. it is just unhealthy to be pro cs player in NA right now.
I would say the debate over player entitlement and NA players wanting to be home more and a lot of Chad’s points stem from the issue that NA has always been viewed as second tier. Moses is a lot more correct on this debate than Chad
maybe Niko just realized that he will never be the best player in the world unless he's an AWPer (s1mple, device, zywoo). so wherever he is he subconsciously or purposely pushes himself into that role.
I think he is gonna get rekt by s1mple and zywoo in awping. G2 should have tried with woxic, he is a free agent so no harm in trying with him cause lan woxic was a god
@@ankurdwivedi5023 not a good take in my opinion. Hear me out, he has been rumored to have an attitude issue which was cleared up by previous teammates however Lobanjica has said that Woxic has a huge ego and therefore not enjoyable to play with.
I reckon the best option for g2 could be Guardian. Somewhat of a gamble but fuck it. I feel like it’s better with a dedicated AWP player than having Niko transition and besides he’s a nutty rifler so better having that.
@@ankurdwivedi5023 woxic doesn't wanna leave his old dad alone in Turkey. And turkey gets high ping.(the reason he got kicked from c9).so I don't think woxic will leave turkey anytime soon. Not worth buying if he's gonna play with high ping
Sorry but I am with Spunj. Soccer players do not leave the Americas for Europe and complain about being away from home. Do your stint, and do your best to be with your family.
Same. And I can understand that 'lifestyle' doesn't suit everyone. But they (Chad) fails to mention that some EU players have already lived across the pont forever. And what about the Brazilians that have lived in NA for years? He usually uses himself as an example, but there are even more relatable examples out their he can use every time. It's already being done and seemingly only the N. Americans complain.
Whys everyone act like a player who moves to Valorant cant come back to CSGO? This isnt like switching between CS and Dota or Dota and LoL or anything that drastic in terms of skillset. Almost every player that went to Val could comeback to CSGO tomorrow and play at the level they were at before or close to it
lets make it short they remove the wrong player and it should be Stew instead of nitr0. Twistzz said it in an interview with richard lewis that someone is disrespecting the In game decisions of nitr0 and we all know it was Stew so now its crumbling Twistzz leave and maybe later it would be Elige.
This is such a shit take I can't even. Stewie, although the weakest player on Liquid statistically, is one of the only irreplacable players on that roster. Along with Elige and arguably Fallen. Riflers are dime a dozen, and although Twistzz is easily the NA player with the highest potential ceiling and upside, he doesn't bring a lot besides firepower. It was either him or NAF, and Twistzz has the longest career ahead of him so it makes sense to let him make his own legacy somewhere else.
Na teams are important only because of the american audience that is bringing the most of the money into the sport, they are fucking rich. Without NA team, american people are losing interest and stop watching streams
NA CS is dead because they can't win against EU CS. Valorant is the super game over there, but just wait until we start really playing it (or not, Valorant can become something like a "World Series" aka American Exclusive 😂😂😂😂😂)
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Appreciate the shout out. overall really good episode keep it coming.
Mythic major run 2021
Big phat daddy😍🥵
I watched the whole thing... Didn't catch it, timestamp?
@@KeefeL 1:54:30
The problem with NA CS is that a good portion of the players in NA only cared about the NA ego paycheck. Freakazoid has been saying it for years.
I agree completely bro. I feel like, and I could be wrong here because I don't know much about his time of CS, but someone like shahzam
what do you mean NA ego paycheck? Like “i’m really good i need good pay?” or people trying to build a brand and be a big name?
All the time i wish NA was more centralized and we grew up with pc cafes like europe so there were more people. The few amount of NA cs players seems to make it hard for any teams or brands to give out money and makes it harder for them to get paid IMO
@@notverysmart42069 no so what freakazoid was trying to say is there were more players in the NA scene who cared more about the money or salary then actually winning. Like RANK S/FPL wasn’t really used as a way to get better by playing with all the better players/pros but way to make money. This obviously doesn’t apply to everyone but he was saying that was the problem with NA, their main goal wasn’t winning. And there are plenty of NA CS players and good ones but why would an ORG invest in players if they will just dip to another game. If you look at majority of the Val pros. They’re all washed NA pros or pug stars who never made it.
@@larry2281 It is sad that people don't care to win. You'd think that players would play to win for extra money... I don't understand this mindset.
Completely agree with Chad's point about CS players needing to realise that the life of an elite competitor in anything cannot be treated like a nine to five.
When a player like Nikola Jokic (Serbian Basketball player) wants to be an elite basketball player he has to leave Serbia and move his life to the US. If a friend back in Serbia has a birthday during the season then he just has to miss it. He doesn't complain about it, because that's what being an elite level competitor is.
When Christian Pulisic (USA football/soccer player) shows great promise as a youngster he has a choice to make. Does he want to stay in the US and not be an elite competitor, or move to Europe and be an elite competitor. He moves to Germany, and now the UK, because that's what it takes to be an elite footballer. He'll probably move back once he retires, but he commits to living in Europe because that's what being an elite footballer involves.
Wherever you're from, if you're an elite tennis player you spend your entire career going from country to country, from tournament to tournament. If your Aunt's funeral happens in the UK midway through the Australian Open, guess what? You're in Australia.
Even somebody like LeBron James, an American playing in an American league, if his best friend has a wedding in New York but his team is playing a home game in LA, well then he's not at the wedding.
Being an elite competitor is not a normal life. You have to make sacrifices. I respect Ethan, like Chad, as he analysed things and decided his priorities didn't line up with being an elite competitor in Counter Strike. That's totally fine and his choice. But I just think it's unrealistic to try to say CS should be this utopia where you don't have to miss birthdays, weddings etc when it doesn't exist for basically any level of elite competition.
Elite competition involves making that sport, or esport, or whatever your main focus in life for your career because you value being elite so much. You get compensated heavily for doing so, and then when you chose to stop competition you have a tonne of cash which allows you to not have to work and have way more free time than the average person and kind of catch up on the rest of life. Obviously an over-simplification, but those were just the thoughts Chad and Jason's conversation spawned into my head.
Great show as always, with a great guest. Thanks for the content guys.
Fax
The one difference between those and esports is that esports is online, and you can to some portions of the job from literally anywhere.
And, the scale of the money involved, is light years of difference. None of these players are going to be worth a billion (lebron) or hundreds of millions, or even close. So they aren't going to make the same sacrifices. They aren't compensated heavily relative to any other sport.
@@2639theboss 1 - it's not usually online though. Pre-pandemic online CS basically didnt exist for top tier play
2 - Not on the same level as some sports sure, but the $250k a year plus prize money that a lot of these players are making is still a tonne of money, and more than many elite sportspeople in more niche sports are making who also make these sacrifices. Again, it's a choice, theres nothing wrong with (like Ethan) saying that amount of compensation isnt personally worth it for you, but that is the choice an elite competitor has to make.
@@robreid5229 But most of these players arent making that much money. Its not even close. Thats the prize money for a top tier event that teams like astralis are winning. And do you really think that all goes to the players? If these players were making even 100 to 200k a year, you'd know, but you don't see them flaunting their money like actual young sports stars.
Moses is great to listen to, thanks for having him on the show!
Just wanna say to Moses's comment about casters that I think Harry & Hugo have come really far and have solidified themselves as great casters at this point. Perhaps to Moses the hype Launders & Scrawny bring is the most important factor, but I think some of the on the fly analysis H&H come out with is really impressive, and really well communicated to the audience. Have to agree that Machine & Spunj are still the top of the list for a grand final though.
i love when the days since last rant when from 6 to 0 lol
I love how moses was totally unafraid to take the opposite positon against SPUNJ's rants.
well they are best of friends so Im not surprised he did
As much as I love how dedicated oSee is to the Extra Salt players, I believe it would be in his best interest to head to EG in place of CeRq. Hell, he should've taken the opportunity to be part of the original colossus.
The problem with colossus is that you would have probably kicked out of it as sniper
Why replace CeRq?
@@PooplexCanal 59:10 From this I infer that CeRq maybe wants to leave EG and head back to Europe to join either an international lineup or go back to his roots in a Bulgarian one. Can't blame him though he's 21 and been in the NRG-EG core for four years.
@@PooplexCanal Cause they might need fresh blood and osee is one of the best snipers in na, prob the best not in a Top Team. Replacing Ethan might not be enough, but maybe it is, who knows. Cerq might want to go to a team like Skade, as they've got some talent in rainwaker and shipz, trying to grow his scene. Who knows, maybe even an international team if someone needs an awper, maybe G2 idk
moses also confirmed dating coach, changed my life
10/10 i could listen to Spunj and Moses all day
clip that moses quote in the beginning and lets see what happens if their is a 2021 lan major
Yo this show is awesome man
Spunj,stiker and professeur thanks for this
maybe NA teams could invest in academy teams that compete at teir 2 or teir 3? to me that would fix the issue of having to teach new players everything when u add them to the main roster. along with giving some players a platform to get a brand and a following early on. Of course money might be an issue but its just a thought.
well valve removed the academies
@@squeaker3087 but navi , NIP and astralis have them. And north had one.
I think Gambit's recent roster was Gambit Kids or whatever, it is an academy roster that they graduated to Gambit and they just popped off. So I agree with this point.
Top athletes do also have a life besides their sport. And they compete until a way older age because of this. it is just unhealthy to be pro cs player in NA right now.
need to agree on this bud
Not winning at the sport, is a bigger factor I think...
Striker’s smile is 50% gums. Looks like he’s in an Invisalign commercial as the before picture.
Lmao
I feel like KennyS, NBK and Jackz could go and form a new French core in a couple of months
Jackz is back on g2 roster, hello?
@@JKG_tv everyone knows it's obviously temporary since they don't have an awper and he can't speak english, hello??
@@existentialpenguin7756 i agree with that though some said Jackz can speak english well now in his stream
@@existentialpenguin7756 ye can speak english he did an interview last time
@@aakash950 Nexa literally said his English was terrible and that’s why he got benched
Spunj’s back must hurt all the time carrying this show.
I would say the debate over player entitlement and NA players wanting to be home more and a lot of Chad’s points stem from the issue that NA has always been viewed as second tier. Moses is a lot more correct on this debate than Chad
does anybody have any idea what kind of interpersonal things with Twistzz were causing issues? I'm just very curious tbh...
Nothing has really been released other than that there were problems
Great video!
lets have a major in Texas with a crowd
wtf it sucks
30:15 Freudian slip
44:42 was there no option to do some kind of a physical exercise? Does the Liquid facility have a "gym" of sorts?
More than likely and also very likely they're already using that every day. But that won't cover 16 hours of a day now will it?
1:40:43 lmao rubic cube
Tarik for next ep!
If riot can have a valorant Lan in May cs can have a Lan late in the year
maybe Niko just realized that he will never be the best player in the world unless he's an AWPer (s1mple, device, zywoo). so wherever he is he subconsciously or purposely pushes himself into that role.
I think he is gonna get rekt by s1mple and zywoo in awping. G2 should have tried with woxic, he is a free agent so no harm in trying with him cause lan woxic was a god
@@ankurdwivedi5023 not a good take in my opinion. Hear me out, he has been rumored to have an attitude issue which was cleared up by previous teammates however Lobanjica has said that Woxic has a huge ego and therefore not enjoyable to play with.
I reckon the best option for g2 could be Guardian. Somewhat of a gamble but fuck it. I feel like it’s better with a dedicated AWP player than having Niko transition and besides he’s a nutty rifler so better having that.
@@ankurdwivedi5023 woxic doesn't wanna leave his old dad alone in Turkey. And turkey gets high ping.(the reason he got kicked from c9).so I don't think woxic will leave turkey anytime soon. Not worth buying if he's gonna play with high ping
coldzera disagrees with you
What is a TO? New to CS...
Tournament organiser I think? It's not just related to CS bro
@@evolution891 Correct!
1:59:36 laughing in cis
What?
He said "uhh..." in a high-pitched tone lol
@@kvhn946 1:59:34 OK?
good moses
G2 GUARDIAN??? HEHE
another kovac added to the team.
I dont think he would go if niko is there.
@@samuelbelko6469 werent niko and guardian actually good friends
Days since his last rant: - 1
Niko kicked kennys?
Can confirm that cubers was a poor example hahaha. Most cubers are more focused on 'having a life'.
Moses is such a fangirl..
In what sense? That doesn’t make even the slightest amount of sense to me
when are you getting s1mple on here?
what ?? no way
Hello youtube
Sorry but I am with Spunj. Soccer players do not leave the Americas for Europe and complain about being away from home. Do your stint, and do your best to be with your family.
Same. And I can understand that 'lifestyle' doesn't suit everyone.
But they (Chad) fails to mention that some EU players have already lived across the pont forever. And what about the Brazilians that have lived in NA for years?
He usually uses himself as an example, but there are even more relatable examples out their he can use every time. It's already being done and seemingly only the N. Americans complain.
BO1 always random in all sports, ask any pro... anyone can win 1 mach.
Whys everyone act like a player who moves to Valorant cant come back to CSGO? This isnt like switching between CS and Dota or Dota and LoL or anything that drastic in terms of skillset. Almost every player that went to Val could comeback to CSGO tomorrow and play at the level they were at before or close to it
why has alienware always had the most hideous products?
Franchised cs and Invite only tournaments are killing pro cs!
good to hear from li'l momo and get his fraudulent insight
didnt age well
3rd
lets make it short they remove the wrong player and it should be Stew instead of nitr0. Twistzz said it in an interview with richard lewis that someone is disrespecting the In game decisions of nitr0 and we all know it was Stew so now its crumbling Twistzz leave and maybe later it would be Elige.
This is such a shit take I can't even. Stewie, although the weakest player on Liquid statistically, is one of the only irreplacable players on that roster. Along with Elige and arguably Fallen. Riflers are dime a dozen, and although Twistzz is easily the NA player with the highest potential ceiling and upside, he doesn't bring a lot besides firepower. It was either him or NAF, and Twistzz has the longest career ahead of him so it makes sense to let him make his own legacy somewhere else.
Fallen is a hacker lol 😆
52:06 euhm... What? Elige top 5? Yeah no...
Lol he's the best rifler in the world
If team plays good, he'll easily be Top 5
@@ayushFos not even close.
@@ayushFos Electronic/Ropz/Niko?
Na teams are important only because of the american audience that is bringing the most of the money into the sport, they are fucking rich. Without NA team, american people are losing interest and stop watching streams
60th like
our favourite bald fraud
NA CS is dead because they can't win against EU CS. Valorant is the super game over there, but just wait until we start really playing it (or not, Valorant can become something like a "World Series" aka American Exclusive 😂😂😂😂😂)