I read of a well-known violinist who has several major-league pernambuco wood bows, worth tens of thousands of dollars EACH. He bought an $8,000 Arcus S9 carbon fiber bow and likes it better than ALL of his super expensive wood bows!
I can believe that and that is why you have to try out as many bows as you can. I’m not sure who you are referring to, however their preference can also depend on where they are playing (inside or outside), how much amplified music they are playing, solo vs chamber music playing, and how dangerous it can be to travel with some of the more expensive bows because they have parts (ivory, tortoise shell, etc) that have become illegal to bring into certain countries and can be confiscated and destroyed at customs without warning. Also I do know plenty of soloists who prefer playing on less expensive modern bows than older expensive ones in concerts. It all depends what you are looking for and what will serve you best. In very broad generality though, I’ve found that carbon fiber bows are more direct and get a bigger sound but lack the extra refined colors a great violinist can make while the expensive major-league pernambuco wood bows as you called them tend to have more musical colors and options to be creative with.
Loved the Bach sonata… do you have a video of the whole piece played by you? I know there are other videos with other players but I would like to listen to your playing…
Great tips, especially about not knowing prices. Percieved value definitely effects how you hear and percieve sound quality. Allot of what works for you depends on how you play. Some bows work better for players who tend to play with smoother more gentle strokes. Other bows sound better in the hands of a player that uses it more like a thrusting sword in combat.
Yeah it really is all about your preference. If I’m working with a student to change how they are using their bow, for example the need to play with more bow speed in general or dig in more, I will pick out bows that will work better for them once they make those fixes so it incentivizes them towards the changes we are working on.
Hi, great video. I agree with almost everything you are stating here and love your approach that having fun trying bows is very important. Bows that make things difficult for you should have no place in your life. Still, there is one topic that I have to disagree: Materials do matter. A lot. When I set out to develop the first Arcus bows back in 1996 because I found that wooden bows are too soft and heavy for my taste I looked at all available materials and worked out that making bows from aluminum, titanium or carbon fiber would all be very, very different. I chose carbon fiber, but unlike my colleagues decided not to copy wooden bows but go for a completely new concept (much more resilient, significant lighter, very thin walled hollow stick with larger diameter,...). I assume you have not played with any of our bows, ARCUS or MÜSING, or have you? You would find they not only look and feel different, but also play and sound different. Oh, and compared to solid wooden sticks the difference between octagonal and round is huge. But only in feel, not in sound.
Thank you for a makers perspective. Of course material makes a huge difference and especially for a maker, what I meant is as a player, don’t be biased towards one or another because there are great examples of bows from each of the major types of materials. I have a couple carbon fiber bows I really like and most of my students up to a certain price range tend to end up with carbon fiber bows. I haven’t had a chance to try your ARCUS or MÜSING bows but I have heard of them and would love to try them when I get a chance. For octagonal vs round, as I mentioned, from my understanding it affects the strength of the stick (which obviously specifically can effect sound) but one doesn’t sound better than the other on its own, it is how it best fits with the rest of the build of the bow. So you can’t simply say octagonal bows sound better or vice versa, you still need to try out all the bows your are given to find the best one for you.
@@EyeForTechnique Regarding octagonal vs round - there is actually no difference in the stiffness to weight ratio, which means that if you use identical pieces of wood and work them down to the same mass (weight) the total stiffness (elasticity) will be equal - but - in case of the octagonal stick it varies slightly with the orientation of the load. And this gives the octagonal stick a somewhat different behaviour, especially in bouncing bows. It is very recognisable in our sticks (which we can make almost identical in weight and stiffness) but it is quite hard to determine in wooden bows as you rarely have the chance to play near identical bows from near identical wood. If you'd ever fancy giving some Arcus or Müsing bows a try, you can find a list of dealers on our website. Should none be near you, there are several who would be happy to ship some for a home trial.
I have a buch of bows and must attest my bow of choice landed on a short permabuco bow 1/8 bow 36 grams, very much like the one in the video but without any wrapping, and only 49 cm long.
carbon fiber may feel good weightwise but they dont offer feedback so you end up with weird feelings of voidness when you reach some positions on some strings
That’s an interesting observation. I haven’t noticed that on the carbon fiber bows I liked but I honestly don’t care what a bow is made out of if it functions well and sounds good. Obviously carbon fiber bows are on the cheaper end of the spectrum but I’ve found decent ones for their price.
@@EyeForTechnique Maybe it is something of my specific carbon fiber bow, I am on the cheap-student spectrum. It feels overall really solid for technique but feedbackwise it is really capped (on recordings it have similar sound but you cant control it if what your hear is dull x'd)
Yeah these carbon fiber bows have a limit. It sounds to me like it is time to upgrade to a better bow. Your equipment is a factor in your improvement and inspiration and when you are outplaying your equipment or are just battling all the problems with your equipment, it’s time to upgrade.
The main bow I use is a modern bow by Daniel Schmidt who lives in Dresden. And my other bows are older French bows. Which Oslo based maker were you thinking of? I’m always interested in learning about other makers.
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While I'm not myself in the market for a bow, this is super interesting!
THANK YOU! This video came at the right time :D
So glad to hear that!
Great video and beautiful tone to your playing!🙏
Thank you!
very very interesting ! And I very much like YOUR playing and tone and expression ! So happy to came around this video "accidentally "... ❤
Thank you for watching and I’m glad you enjoyed it!
Very informative video.. thank you..
Thank you. I’m glad you found it informative.
Once you started playing the Bach sonata I didn't want you to stop
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.
I read of a well-known violinist who has several major-league pernambuco wood bows, worth tens of thousands of dollars EACH. He bought an $8,000 Arcus S9 carbon fiber bow and likes it better than ALL of his super expensive wood bows!
I can believe that and that is why you have to try out as many bows as you can. I’m not sure who you are referring to, however their preference can also depend on where they are playing (inside or outside), how much amplified music they are playing, solo vs chamber music playing, and how dangerous it can be to travel with some of the more expensive bows because they have parts (ivory, tortoise shell, etc) that have become illegal to bring into certain countries and can be confiscated and destroyed at customs without warning. Also I do know plenty of soloists who prefer playing on less expensive modern bows than older expensive ones in concerts. It all depends what you are looking for and what will serve you best. In very broad generality though, I’ve found that carbon fiber bows are more direct and get a bigger sound but lack the extra refined colors a great violinist can make while the expensive major-league pernambuco wood bows as you called them tend to have more musical colors and options to be creative with.
Loved the Bach sonata… do you have a video of the whole piece played by you? I know there are other videos with other players but I would like to listen to your playing…
Thank you! I do have an old recording of it on my other channel @NivAshkenazi
Great tips, especially about not knowing prices. Percieved value definitely effects how you hear and percieve sound quality. Allot of what works for you depends on how you play. Some bows work better for players who tend to play with smoother more gentle strokes. Other bows sound better in the hands of a player that uses it more like a thrusting sword in combat.
Yeah it really is all about your preference. If I’m working with a student to change how they are using their bow, for example the need to play with more bow speed in general or dig in more, I will pick out bows that will work better for them once they make those fixes so it incentivizes them towards the changes we are working on.
Hi, great video. I agree with almost everything you are stating here and love your approach that having fun trying bows is very important. Bows that make things difficult for you should have no place in your life. Still, there is one topic that I have to disagree: Materials do matter. A lot. When I set out to develop the first Arcus bows back in 1996 because I found that wooden bows are too soft and heavy for my taste I looked at all available materials and worked out that making bows from aluminum, titanium or carbon fiber would all be very, very different. I chose carbon fiber, but unlike my colleagues decided not to copy wooden bows but go for a completely new concept (much more resilient, significant lighter, very thin walled hollow stick with larger diameter,...).
I assume you have not played with any of our bows, ARCUS or MÜSING, or have you? You would find they not only look and feel different, but also play and sound different. Oh, and compared to solid wooden sticks the difference between octagonal and round is huge. But only in feel, not in sound.
Thank you for a makers perspective. Of course material makes a huge difference and especially for a maker, what I meant is as a player, don’t be biased towards one or another because there are great examples of bows from each of the major types of materials. I have a couple carbon fiber bows I really like and most of my students up to a certain price range tend to end up with carbon fiber bows. I haven’t had a chance to try your ARCUS or MÜSING bows but I have heard of them and would love to try them when I get a chance. For octagonal vs round, as I mentioned, from my understanding it affects the strength of the stick (which obviously specifically can effect sound) but one doesn’t sound better than the other on its own, it is how it best fits with the rest of the build of the bow. So you can’t simply say octagonal bows sound better or vice versa, you still need to try out all the bows your are given to find the best one for you.
@@EyeForTechnique Regarding octagonal vs round - there is actually no difference in the stiffness to weight ratio, which means that if you use identical pieces of wood and work them down to the same mass (weight) the total stiffness (elasticity) will be equal - but - in case of the octagonal stick it varies slightly with the orientation of the load. And this gives the octagonal stick a somewhat different behaviour, especially in bouncing bows. It is very recognisable in our sticks (which we can make almost identical in weight and stiffness) but it is quite hard to determine in wooden bows as you rarely have the chance to play near identical bows from near identical wood.
If you'd ever fancy giving some Arcus or Müsing bows a try, you can find a list of dealers on our website. Should none be near you, there are several who would be happy to ship some for a home trial.
I have a buch of bows and must attest my bow of choice landed on a short permabuco bow 1/8 bow 36 grams, very much like the one in the video but without any wrapping, and only 49 cm long.
❤
carbon fiber may feel good weightwise but they dont offer feedback so you end up with weird feelings of voidness when you reach some positions on some strings
That’s an interesting observation. I haven’t noticed that on the carbon fiber bows I liked but I honestly don’t care what a bow is made out of if it functions well and sounds good. Obviously carbon fiber bows are on the cheaper end of the spectrum but I’ve found decent ones for their price.
@@EyeForTechnique Maybe it is something of my specific carbon fiber bow, I am on the cheap-student spectrum. It feels overall really solid for technique but feedbackwise it is really capped (on recordings it have similar sound but you cant control it if what your hear is dull x'd)
Yeah these carbon fiber bows have a limit. It sounds to me like it is time to upgrade to a better bow. Your equipment is a factor in your improvement and inspiration and when you are outplaying your equipment or are just battling all the problems with your equipment, it’s time to upgrade.
Sorry, weird question but is that bow made by an oslo based maker?
The main bow I use is a modern bow by Daniel Schmidt who lives in Dresden. And my other bows are older French bows. Which Oslo based maker were you thinking of? I’m always interested in learning about other makers.