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Pro Mixer Reacts to Periphery - "Wildfire"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.พ. 2023
- There's a lot to learn from Adam "Nolly" Getgood's mix: how to maintain punch with loudness, get a low end that sounds huge everywhere, and make your drums sound massive and realistic at the same time.
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Thanks for the kind words and for taking the time to pick through the work we did on the mix! You highlighted many of the points that were important to us so that's very satisfying for me. Love what you do here on your channel Jordan
Awesome job, as always, Nolly. I'm so glad you used real snare with no samples on at least one of the songs. As a drummer, I feel a little wince of pain whenever I see drum replacement being done on what otherwise could have been a great sounding kit. I know its the reality of where we are in technology, but I think many musicians would like to create organic sounds that can compete w sampled sounds.
Could you by any chance break down what your process for mixing the drums was?
Nolly! Will you ever make a video or Instagram post talking about your Kii Three’s?? I’d love to get your thoughts on what you like about them and how they’ve changed or enhanced how you mix
@@alltoohumantheband6343 if you don't mind, i have some thoughts. i don't think nolly has any issues with drum samples. its just what worked best for this song. i think samples should only be used to benefit the sound. if they aren't needed, they aren't needed. they shouldn't be used on principle. i only reach for samples when a drum needs some help to accomplish the end goal. organic sounds are no better or worse than synthetic sounds or digital processes inherently. as an audio engineer we shouldn't give a shit about things like these. what matters is the end product. if it sounds better tuned, tune it. if it sounds better natural, leave it. same goes with drum editing, using a click track, punching in and out a lot to create the perfect take, doubling guitar solos with a synth blended in the background, backing tracks, or whatever else. we aren't trying to create the most "natural" productions, we are trying to create the best sounding, emotional, impactful productions.
@@Fire-Toolz i absolutely agree with you, and I am guilty of using editing, punch in and out, click track, etc. I guess i should have added that I am old enough to remember how much more "soul" music seemed to have before we auto-tuned, sampled and automated it. I also thought it was very interesting that Nolly chose not to sample selected tracks and I'd love to hear from him as to whether it was his or the band's wish to avoid samples or if it actually sounded that good that they weren't needed.
dude every TH-camr needs to smarten the fuck up and follow this man's method... no intro bullshit, straight to the fucking point, love it.
Right!
I think that their vocal production has improved the most since the last record. Love the video!
Spencer's been producing other vocalists like the Veil of Maya dude (Lukas Magyar) so that might also be why.
I kinda feel bad as a guitarist, their mixes got more and more vocal friendly
@@Professional.Bro.777 you sound like a vocal hater, not a guirarist
I absolutely love how the kick sounds on this record. IMO it being pulled back a bit allowed him to make the vocals, bass, guitar, and cymbals all have their space in the top end while still giving the kick enough to cut through. Stunning work!
Would love to hear you analyze a Loathe Mix from "I Let It In And It Took Everything". I love how its a modern vintage kinda vibe
somehow that oxymoron makes sense
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MUCH respect for these guys, because although they produce incredible records, they have a completely opposite mixing technique approach. And this shows how much study they have behind, to understand what works best for them. Love!
loving these type of videos, keep em coming man!
So awesome to hear your analysis on this mix!!!
About time! We needed an intelligent analyzation of this! Most other reaction videos just try to oversell their personality and it feels fake. Love this review
Don't fall in a trap of primitive scammers.... They always want you to telegram them and wnat to send you something but of course you need to pay \only\ for transport ;)
That was interesting, watching the meter during snare hits. Nowhere for it to go! Another cool video, thanks for all the content you put out!
A lot of his snare and kick sound is using his fast attack comp reacting to the snare and kick, so everytime the snare hits everything is down, you dont fight a lot with other elements because the dynamics and the mix are controlled with the snare, even nolly says if he bypass that comp the mix fall apart. You can get stupid loud with the snare with that and still sounds good 😂 really nice trick, i know buster and a lot of modern mixers use this technique a lot.
Hey Jordan! Cool video! I recently watched a Nolly mix through for a Periphery track. One of his tricks to control cymbal bleed is using a MB compressor on the higher frequencies.
was that the Prayer Position Nail The Mix? That one is incredible.
@@superhydroyeast the very one! Agreed. It was amazing 😊
Is there a way to watch this one somewhere?
@@felixgehrke3493 there are clips on the URM youtube channel but the 8-9 hour full mix you can get by signing up to Nail The Mix.
These 17 mins flew by wow... this was a joy to watch
Geez been waiting 3 years. Finally!!
I'd love to see you do this with some of Buster Odeholm's Vildhjarta mixes!!!
Same!! He’s probably my favorite mixer in metal right now, that’d be awesome!!
best band
Was about to post this exact thing! Buster and Nolly are both at the forefront of the modern metal mixing game for sure.
this song is fucking crazy. i love it. nolly killed it.
Something about metal that I've been thinking recently is that people seem so concerned with "dynamics" in terms of just volume of certain parts, but I think another sort of dynamic to consider is the shifting of frequencies. A kick drum hitting that leads into a riff could potentially be very similar in volume, but the more stark contrast is the way the low end of the whole track transitions to more midrange.
It's because of these shifts in dynamics of specific frequencies that we can have very loud masters where the peaks and valleys of the waveform are actually pretty close to each other and still have something that sounds absolutely slamming.
I think he was using a lot of fabfilter mb in expander mode on highend of snare, plus ff saturn as a kinda expander(weird trick) on toms. It works because he might not use samples on snare, but he probably used them on snare room which gives most of the snare tail. Not sure, but this is something he mostly was doing recently.
Please check out something off of their Juggernaut record. The mix is my favorite of theirs, it's more dynamic. (which I think makes since for a concept album)
Great video. :)
Jordan, I would love to see you review the latest stuff by Bayside, as I love the mixes (and the band, of course).
Nolly uses top down mixing and has a specific approach for his instrumental mix bus compressor goal/settings, and i think that might be a good explanation for how he's getting the snare to cut through the dense mix.
th-cam.com/video/MH0xz9LzAUA-/w-d-xo.html start - 8:08 (compressor part 3:30-6:46)
You and Nolly are my two favorite mix engineers. Thank you for doing this.
th-cam.com/video/X7bUCCQUBeA/w-d-xo.html (another video of him explaining his instrumental mix bus and mix bus approach)
start to 8:55 ish
Hi Jordan, an existential question comes to mind. It seems to me that Nolly practices top-down mixing (I have a course where he explains his method) and I know that you advise against it. What do you think makes the top-down approach work for his mixes? The quality of the source material? Their style with very dense mixes lends itself better to it?
Cheers.
P.S: in the course I watched he shows how he uses a side chain compressor to duck the other instruments on each snare hit... That might explain why it stands out so much in the mix.
You two are my favorite mixers though🤘
I always wanted to hear your mix opinions on Crimson Glory - Astronomica and DGM - Tragic Separation.
for the most part this is what i'm striving to achieve, especially the drum sound
From watching previous mix vids from Nolly, one of the biggest things is prep. Getting the BEST quality on the way in, and the best takes, and mixing things just to make everything come together. His prep on things like drums is insane. If you look online. Grab some of their stems and practice mixing on them. That way you can 1:1 compare and get close to nollys mix using the same starting tracks
Can you please do the In Flames record?
EVERY TIME YOU OPEN UP A PLUGIN, THEN I MOVE MY CURSOR ON YOUR DAMN SCREEN!
Imagine how many times I'm pausing your videos 😅😅😅
Thanks Jordan. Have watched many of your previous videos showing snare drum techniques, as well as Nolly's and this has helped me to get huge, non-sampled drum sounds which I believe still sound properly "produced." However, I'm still wrestling occasionally with allowing a pleasant sounding "ring" to come through from the snare, after its been gated and shaped w transient designer. Any other tips on how you do this? I like the snare sounds you get ...
Copy the snare track, throw a transient designer on it, minimize attack, crank sustain, blend to taste and use a lot of fader riding.
@@BeatsAndMeats Thanks, David...Ahh yes the Simon Phillips trick. I have used a snare channel that I call "snare SPL," with exactly that treatment. However, when I boost the frequency of the ring I like, I end up boosting hi-hat bleed. compromises!
@@alltoohumantheband6343 Put the AIX DSP Multi-Band Gate in front of the transient designer… that plug-in is effing magic. You know what’s a shame, the actual hardware transient designer is about 2 bazillion times better than the plugins, and I don’t know why.
Would love to see you react to some mixes by Lance Prenc, this guy is killing it
Nice! I'd like to see a mix review of the latest Disturbed album. I think it sounds great. One of my favorite sounding albums is Sovran by Draconian. Would love to hear your thoughts on that one as well
He might have used lighter cymbals for the recordings to minimize bleed. That coupled with dynamic mics on toms will greatly minimize those issues. Gavin Harrison mentions he might sometimes have a take without cymbals if he gets to heavily compress tracks. Cymbals will be recorded later, but that'd be a lot more work. This isn't my style of music but I wish the final product wasn't so brickwalled. A bit of dynamics always helps the final result IMHO.
Yup, side-chain gating 👍
nolly is not the mastering engineer
Does this change your opinion on top down? I think Nolly likes to use top down mixing.
I'd like you to do Caligula's Horse - Oceanrise, and if you feel like it Orbit Culture - Nensha.
gotta be using the phase cancelation trick on snare to avoid the cymbal splash on the gate
I wonder if Nolly sidechained the guitar compression to the snare track, so it ducks around 200 Hz out of the guitars when the snare hits?
he only uses trackspacer on the bass with the kick, and the way he does things is to have a quick attack bus compressor to clamp down everything with that LOUD AF snare.
I've been always curious where you get the stereo files. Assuming they can't be official WAV files, so are they usually MP3's extracted from the tube? Wonder if there's any compromise in quality if that's the case, I guess that might depend on what you use the actual songs in your DAW for...
I'm just buying it on iTunes store!
When you talk about loudness... if I'm seeing correctly you pulled the track down by -2dB and the master is than at 0... I always see everyone mention to leave 1dB of headroom for the conversion for streaming services (even that is not enough some times), jet when you listen to commercial releases on spotify or download from youtube they are always clipping. Do most mastering engineers actually leave the ceiling at 0dBfs and screw the conversion on streaming services?
yup, i don't know anyone who masters it to -1.
@@hardcoremusicstudio Interesting, thanks for the reply, great work!
Probably due to his mix bus method using a .3 attack allowing the snare to be up front and duck everything else
All of Nolly’s Periphery mixes are great! I didn’t care for his Northlane mixes as much but his style just works so well for Periphery’s music.
I almost guarantee either the cymbals were a separate performance from the shells or he made clean samples of the shells to replace the actual shell hits of the performance.
Obviously I don’t know for sure but a lot of people do trickery like that behind the scenes and you’d never know.
I don't think Nolly/Matt have done anything like that. They're very dedicated to being as natural as possible. I know on P3 it was only just a little bit of extra snare room sample blended in with the actual room, and a blended kick sample, but they've talked about how they never do sample replacement or any trickery like that. Matt actually said in an instagram Q&A for the drums for this album that there were no samples.
@@lukebogartmix I didn’t say he used samples as in like trigger 2 samples or samples from another kit. I said it’s very possible he created samples from Matt’s kit so that he didn’t have to deal with any cymbal bleed. So after Matt recorded his performance, it was easy to get rid of the cymbal bleed by just replacing the hits on Matt’s performance with samples from the same room of the same kit. Also, you have absolutely no idea what people do in the privacy of a studio and it’s naive to believe that they wouldn’t do whatever it takes to achieve the best and cleanest source material for mixing. They can say and tell you whatever they want and still be concealing so many important details. I mixed the P3 mail the mix track when I was still learning and know all about what was said in that live mixing session when Nolly remixed it live. And I am still entirely aware of the fact that these guys might never tell you everything they do or be completely honest. It’s not much different from the fitness community and all the steroid users lying about their methods to sell products.
Don’t ever just accept everything you hear these guys say. Do your own experimentation and try everything because the more you do the more you’re going to realize how much bullshit and misinformation is out there. This is why I like Jordan because he’s one of the most honest, real, and transparent people I’ve seen mix. And I’m not saying Nolly necessarily isn’t either but don’t just assume he wouldn’t hide some shit.
@@chadmichael_ that’s still sample replacement, doesn’t matter if it’s the same kit or another trigger. It’s been very well documented that these drum sounds are more than capable done naturally, and I choose to believe they’ve got nothing to hide or prove by lying about if they sample replaced or not. There’s zero reason for them to have magically radically change their workflow to something like that, especially with isolating drums and cymbals in that manner. If they haven’t needed to since almost 10 years ago when they recorded Juggernaut, why would they have just changed now? What’s the point in all the specific mic placements and bleed reduction ideas if he’s just going to replace them with samples anyways? Your logic would make sense if it hasn’t been well shown that they haven’t used samples in that way and have based their recording entirely around getting the best sounds and not using samples.
@@lukebogartmix because they know that you'd never know if they did or didn't if the samples were made from the kit on the spot in the room they were tracking in after the drums were set up with the mics set up how they wanted them. I'm not saying that they did that for sure. I should say that I am certain that it is very possible. So many engineers do so much behind the scenes that you don't know about and that doesn't let Nolly off the hook. Until he mixes the raw kit in front of you with all the cymbal bleed in the drums and you can hear him going step by step through the entire thing exactly the way he did it, the truth is you have absolutely no idea and he can tell you anything he wants and you'll never know. And that remix should sound exactly as clean as it does on the record. Not like what he did for Prayer Position in PIII when he mixed it live and didn't even mix it the way he mixed it on the album.
I think it's also possible that he did get the kit 100 percent natural. But don't just believe everything you hear and don't stop yourself as a mixer from doing whatever it takes in the studio to get that sound you're looking for. There is no shame in using samples or splitting cymbals from shells in the performance or using a natural kit. All are valid ways to make great music. I'm just saying, don't believe everything you hear.
@@chadmichael_ I don't believe there is shame in doing anything, and there's no reason to lie about what you've been able to do, or what you've chosen to do. The vast majority of the scene and mixers/engineers (including Nolly) have been entirely transparent on if they're doing full sample replacements, separated cymbal/shell performances, VST guitars/bass, rigorous editing and punches, recording at slower tempos and speeding back up. Myself included do all of these things in varying degrees. This does specifically include Nolly who has said this exact thing on the Downbeat podcast that it doesn't matter how you achieved what you did, whether it be samples, intense editing, as long as you're honest. Machine did fully separate shells/cymbals with LOG mixes even though Chris Adler is a legend, Carson/Grant make the ABR guys punch in riffs at slow tempos and edit note by note, etc. The difference between this and your analogy to the fitness industry is that this is art and it's widely recognized that there is no wrong way of achieving the sounds you want. There isn't an inherit gain on being deceptive of your techniques or what you did to mix. I just don't think it's morally correct to assume or believe that there's possibly deception by a person going on until I'm proven explicitly otherwise, especially when it comes to something as simple as getting natural drum sounds that they've been able to achieve for 10 years. I'd also say that assumptions that something was done an "easier" way than what was said can be harmful as an engineer, as you don't push yourself to achieve something that inherently takes more time and effort, and could result in something more unique and "genuine", which is most people's goal with their music.
Mix review a song from the most recent Alluvial or Obscura albums.
come to think about it, Periphery mixes tend to be more on the "organic" side compared to their contemporaries but still manage to retain the impact and clarity that would've been lost if the mixer isn't as proficient as mr. Getgood.
Hi Jordan,
I have a recommendation for a mix review!
The album from The Amity Affliction called "Chasing Ghosts" was mixed entirely on headphones by Will Putney in his Bedroom!
Might be a good one to review to show how great mixing can be done with headphones.
OR I absolutely love the Polaris album "The Death of Me" too!
Thanks!
-Conner
How in the world is that snare NOT sampled?
Matt hits really hard on the shells and he has the finesse to be able to pull it off in a closely spaced drums and cymbals.
loathe i let it in and it took everything
Mans skipped right over the solo 😭😭😭 lmao
6:20 Getting clean gating on drums when playing this loud requires triggers
I would respectfully disagree. It just takes some work, but its possible to get huge cutting drums without triggers. There are at least 2-3 good tricks for reducing cymbal bleed, other than just simply gating.
@@alltoohumantheband6343 i agree, my comment was a bit clumsy.
Edit: Using triggers for gating purposes is a nobrainer if you want precise mic'd sound like these drums clearly have.
Room and overhead mics are the actual sauce imo. It's crazy how little direct mics have to sometimes contribute to the sound of a drumkit. Except bass drum mic in metal music 😄
@@hitmarkler I agree! In fact, I even sidechain and gate the rooms sometimes when I want to augment the snare sound. In some mixes, It can be more important to the overall sound than my reverbs. Edit to add: To your point: I am getting precise mic'ed sounds and excellent "gated" toms, without using triggers. It just takes manually cutting the tom tracks so no gate is even needed. Would welcome your input in the few mixes we have up on the ATH channel.
@@hitmarkler is not that crazy, we rarely listen to drums with our ears 2 inches from the skin.
Why does this sound so different from whats on their music video? Like the snare flam before it starts has way more room and this is way more compressed than what's on Spotify even. It sounds sick I'm just really confused. Is there going to be a new mix on the released album that you got your hands on early or did you do something to it?
Wow, no samples on this mix? Jordan, what are the chances we could get a video of you trying to achieve a snare sound like this without the use of sample replacement? Nothing against samples, but I think it would be useful to know how to work around a situation where the client specifically asks not to use them but still wants to get this kind of modern, yet dynamic sound.
I think, realistically, this kind of sound is only possible if you record the drums really, really, really well, like Nolly.
I don't think Jordan or anybody else can give you any tips or tutorials on how to get this tone from a random decent drum recording.
@@mrcoatsworth429 Hopefully Jordan will see this comment and either agree to give it a try or assume that nobody in the world except Nolly can pull off this kind of sound, which is basically what you said.
@@alexisondrums_ I can promise you that its possible. While I have a very high quality kit, my "drum room" is not great, yet with some creative mic'ing of the entire house in which its recorded, I have gotten gigantic natural sounds with not even one single sample.
@@alexisondrums_ that is absolutely not what I said. Read it again.
I'm saying there is no mixing tip or trick that somebody can show you on TH-cam. The "trick" is having years and years of experience micing drums and recording amazing sounds at the source. If you have lots of cymbal bleed in your snare mic, forget it.
@@mrcoatsworth429 I totally agree with you that there is no one plug-in or "trick" that can make this sound. You are also right that getting good sounds at the source and minimizing bleed are important. But, I still get the same sound on almost all my tracks even when I have to work around those ever-present compromises.
I love the natural but still powerful drum sound. Combined with all the rest it crushes so hard!
I instantly turn off any song that has that stupid gunshot snare sound that so many „modern“ bands use to basically make their lame songs sound heavy.
it's funny you are saying this because most modern metal bands use GGD nowadays which is very probably the sound you're referring to
the snare might be side chained
nah it's not.
Brickwall mastering..........
Nice insight Jordan, the mix sounds solid for modern standards and Nolly is a wizard... but sadly the master it's totally crushed... and so congested in the low-mids. It lacks of impact, as it sounds generic dead in terms of dynamics. Such a shame metal music is still continuing with this fatiguing approach nowadays. The KD is kind of killed sometimes, diffused into the low end and high mids frequency areas.. can breathe when the arrangement is less dense, but is indistinguishable when everything is in, mostly in faster parts. The snare is well placed frequency wise in order to cut through the dense mix, but the reverb printed on it makes me out of the mix, as it's unrelated to everything else IMHO. I'm quite sceptic the snare has no samples as you point out Jordan, not only because is quite difficult to cut through the very dense mix in the low-mids, but also hear unnatural decay and sustain on it, typical of some of his signature drum samples... alongside the over compression, this is obvious. The Toms are killed, no breathe, no impact. The cymbals are inexistent, lost. No overall depth (besides the very obvious reverb on the snare), nor tridimensionality, I guess due to the overcompressed master... but hey, that's my opinion and Periphery always deliver for sure! They are amazing musicians!!
the master could've been better if it's just up to -9LUFS (or maybe "the standard", being -14) tbqh, incentivizing people to crank up the volume knob instead of backing it off.
I hate it. I think it is mush. But that's just me and I hated the last Alter bridge mix too which was mush.
It's a great mix but a rather unenjoyable composition imo
they are great musicians and Nolly is also a great mixer. But in my opinion, this record sounds horrible. It´s like a never changing equal amount of noise. I get the exact same result, just letting my vacuum cleaner run. I think it´s uninspired and only to show off. The louder, faster, harder becomes boring.
this is the ultimate showoff album lol
It sounds pretty annoying, muddy in a bad way, overcompressed & overdistorted. I guess it's a matter of taste though. Nice video though :)
Periphery are so good, but I just cant stand the pop vocals, the rest is brilliant though
I guess 'DYNAMICS' are a thing of the past.............................
The vocals are like nails on a chalkboard
that's just how Spencer sings. I'd like to hear how you sing.
@@BukanIbuMu i can’t sing well technically, but it’s not grating
this is a sound lasagna...
Mush. Grainy, over compressed, not very musical.
Cymbals don't have balls in most of the new metal albums
I would love to hear your thoughts on some of Haken's stuff. I absolutely loved how their Virus album sounded.
That would be awesome, Jordan, if you could review Haken, as their production has skyrocketed since Nolly got involved. Both Nil by Mouth and several of the songs on Virus are at the top of my reference list for mixing and mastering.
More Nolly goodness, lol.