350+ deer shot: the biggest test of non-lead hunting ammunition - Fieldtester, episode 7
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- Do lead alternative bullets kill deer? Do they 'pencil'? do they perform at range, do they mushroom?
In this experiment, 15 stalkers from Sussex to Scotland shoot more than 350 deer and catalogue the results. It is the biggest single field-test of non-lead ammo in the world.
They took the shots from 25 metres to more than 250 metres on five UK deer species over four months using multiple calibres from all the major manufacturers. With the help of some of our stalkers, Tim Pilbeam explains what they found out. And the results coincide with the National Game Dealers Association voting to source non-lead-shot game from July 2022.
That's not all. There's a new optics manufacturer, Eyeskey, making a range of scopes and binos. Our stalkers try them out. Ian Hodge talks about best foxshooting rifle/scope packages and James from UK gun distributor RUAG reveals his best-selling rifle.
For more from Eyeskey, visit www.eyeskeyopt...
For best foxshooting packages got to Fcha.nl/best-f... or visit ianhodgefields...
For RUAG’s topselling rifle, go to Fcha.nl/bergar... or visit www.ruag.co.uk/
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Why shoot deer?
There are more than two million red, roe, fallow, sika, muntjac and Chinese water deer in Britain’s countryside and semi-urban areas, the highest level for 1,000 years. Numbers have doubled since 1999, according to the Deer Initiative, the UK government’s deer agency.
Deer are an attractive and an important part of our wildlife. However, they have no natural predator in the UK so numbers must be sensibly and strategically managed to keep them in balance with their habitat and to prevent damage to crops, trees, woodland flora, gardens and other wildlife.
Deer cause £4.5 million-worth (Forestry Commission Scotland) of damage to plantations and other commercial woodlands in Scotland. Crop damage is estimated at £4.3m a year according to DEFRA, with the greatest damage on cereal crops in east and south-west England.
More than 8,000 hectares (Parliamentary Office for Science and Technology) of woodland with SSI status is currently in ‘unfavourable’ or ‘recovering’ condition due to deer impacts such as browsing and fraying. Deer can also influence the variety of wildlife in woodlands and other habitats by altering structural and plant species diversity. According to the University of East Anglia’s Dr Paul Dolman, that has resulted in a 50% decline in woodland bird numbers where deer are present, impacting particularly on nightingales, blackcaps, chiffchaffs and warblers.
Deer are susceptible to Bovine TB and may be responsible for the transmission of TB to cattle. They are also the likely driver behind the UK’s increasing tick population (Scharlemann et al 2008).
Happily, venison is a delicious meat. It is wild, natural and free range, and - almost fat-free - it is one of the healthiest meats available today. Results from research commissioned by the Game-to-Eat campaign (Leatherhead Food International Research 2006) suggest that there are real health benefits to eating game. Venison is high in protein, low in saturated fatty acids and contains higher levels of iron than any other red meat.
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Here in Africa we have been using non lead bullets like Barnes triple shock for years and have come to realize that they are are in fact superior in terms of terminal reliability than conventional bullets. The banded versions have put an abrupt end to all pressure and copper fouling problems and can be handloaded just like a lead bullet of the same weight.
I love this channel because it gives us American viewers a different perspective. I personally use Nosler Ballistic Tips, Accubond Long range, Woodleigh RN, Norma Oryx, along with some of the standard projectiles like Partitions and cheaper soft points. I generally go with what will shoot best and perform well. I recent got some Swift Scirrocco II's for my 7mm Rem Mag to try out. I never was fond of the western brand non-toxic bullets because the seemed to always shoot poorly. I did find that because of the density of the material, you usually do have to go light for caliber since the bearing surface on a 150 gr non-toxic bullet is similar to a lead core 180 gr. That is probably where that notion of going light for caliber came from. This is a pretty unique test, I didnt even know Geco or S&B made those types of loads. I believe Norma just released a bullet of that design. It seems that around here in the eastern United States, either you love Barnes/Nosler ETIP/GMX bullets or you hate em.
Thank u for your input 👍. D
I have found that you often have to completely clean the bore if you're going to shoot copper bullets. I use J-B Non-Embedding Bore Cleaning Compound to take the bore down to bare metal, then start load development with copper bullets. For the most part, I use copper (Barnes LRX or TTSX almost exclusively) bullets in high velocity cartridges. Otherwise, I use Nosler Partitions, AB,ABLR or ELD-X bullets in more moderate velocity rifles. I hunt in the Mountain West at longer ranges than most hunting country demands hence the concern to retain at least 2000 fps terminal at 500-600 yards with copper bullets.
I took a fox with Hornady ELDX 178gr in 308, a lead bullet, given it has higher bc it’s reported to expand even as low as 1600fps.
Fox at about 50m broad side through high chest and out other side and it ran away 100m, hid behind bush and was badly wounded. I had to stalk it another 100m and it would hide in shrubs. Finished with headshot.
The first round was high in chest and below spine and went straight through and so I felt a copper round would do the same.
I also err to super speed for copper or close range and I feel copper going through an animal is spreading the shock like a speer, neither transferring full energy in a concentrated point like hollow point or ballistic tip or bonded core.
Perhaps copper needs to be alloyed and made a little softer to work better for lead free choice.
I just found your channel a few days ago. We live on the plains of SE Colorado. I am loving the reviews and tests on the non-toxic bullets.
Currently with my wife’s Weatherby 6.5rpm 127gr Barnes LRX she took a nice whitetail doe at 111yds in 2022 (very first time big game hunting and this and with her 6.5PRC using the Barnes 127gr LRX she her first buck around 150yds. They both ran and dropped within 20yds. After seeing the results I am becoming a big fan of the Barnes LRX
Currently I am giving the Barnes LRX 190gr a try getting sub 1” groups at a 100yds. Will be going with them during elk season. Also trying to find the best copper bullet for my 25-06.
Thanks - sounds like you found your round. / Charlie
This was the best Fieldtester yet, by a long way. Anything with a GWP in it is always a winner!
Thanks very much.
A very well-presented series, well done Tim, you put in a lot of time and effort to show all shooters out there, that lead-free/copper bullets work just as well, if not better than lead bullets. The stats at the end showed that they backed up just how well they do perform and plus the main two; #1 shot placement; #2 whether your rifle likes the ammunition you are using. Give yourself a big pat on the back, again well done.
Excelente survey!!!
Surprising results!
Helped a lot!
Thank you.
Answered some questions about lead free that I've had. Loved the video on lead free accuracy and expansion too. Good work!👍
Excellent study. Thanks for running it (and I assume the ammo companies for supporting it).
I have already brought a box of Barnes TSX bullets. Waiting for the rifle ranges opening up, so I can develop some loads.
Thanks, for the review. I hunt whitetails in the United States and I enjoy the tradition of European hunters. Fortunately, I harvested a 180 pound doe at the hoof at about 150 yards away using a hand loaded 165 grain GMX bullet in 30/06. The monolithic bullets perform well in my 03 a3. Good work, everyone and thanks for the review.
Brilliant report. 5*'s!
Great review, now for shops to stock them so that we the user can put this into practice. Ace work David and team.
Ballistics are so overlooked and choosing the right one is the the difference between completing the harvest and the game getting away
Another great show...👍..
22 mins, the colour fringing is called chromatic abberation, all lenses show it at some point but cheaper lenses much more (vignetting is the darkening or lightening circle around the outside of the picture)
The “light for caliber” thing comes from twist rate. Copper bullets are about 15% lighter for the same shape length etc. so if you intend to fire heavy for caliber copper bullets you may not have a fast enough twist.
Great show.
Where I live it is legal to use either lead or copper , North Carolina, for white tails deer , I have used both for a span of fifty years of hunting and this test is on point , both types of bullets work great with the animals expiring very quickly, and if you are the one who eats the deer , you will hope the hunter used a copper bullet , or you might bite down on a small chunk of lead.
Fantastic work !
Very interesting but as an airgunner I'd like to know more about what's happening with lead free pellets? There's been little coverage on whether/when a ban applies to pellets.
I'd like to see the same test carried out on airgun pellets.
Love what you guys are doing with the shows, keep up the good work 👍.
Enjoyed keep them coming
Great job
I have totally enjoyed this video and I have found it useful and very interesting 👍
The thing I’m worried about is the alternative for rimfire and air guns and .410 but saying that most small game and vermin shooters don’t sell game on
With rim fire use 17 hmr or 22 wmr. 22lr is short range only. 410 works brilliantly with tungsten matrix, but the cost is rough.
There are already heaps of non lead .22 lr
As a Professional Alaskan hunting guide doing brown bear & Yukon Moose hunts I exclusively shoot Barns TSX bullets and demand my client bring not less than a 338 win mag with Barns ammunition or find another guide because my life isn't worth the stupid client that brings Deer ammo in lead core bullets to hunt dangerous game that can kill you from a failed lead core bullet that came apart on contact with a bear or a 1500 pound angry Yukon Moose.
Excellent information! I am going voluntarily switch to copper.
270 meters is not a far shot. The issue with led free is the 400 to 500 yard range. Velocity should be well above 2000 fps 610 m/s ,or there about, in order to achieve adequate expansion. So it may work in a 270 win with 130 grain bullets but wouldn't be ideal for a 308 win or slower cartridges especially with short barrels.
Super interesting, thanks for the great effort!! Out of interest, are head and neck shots on deer (or any game) acceptable practice in the UK? I am fairly new to hunting so there is no judgement implied, but in Germany it is frowned upon and generally taught to be bad practice because of the high risk to cause non-lethal, non-incapacitating injuries (like jaw shots) that make the animal very difficult to track and bring down.
This didn't really tell me anything other than "things die when you shoot them".
Ill stick w nosler partition
Across the pod here in the US. I’d love to see how y’all set up your rifles. I see suppressors and short barrels.
where is FOX bullets?
We weren’t asked to supply any. Thousands of deer already shot by FE using them. Speaks for itself
Are there any plan to write up these results as a scientific, peer reviewed paper? Hard, repeatable scientific data from a working environment would not necessarily be something that is readily available at the moment.
As an American we are taught to only go for a chest shot. Over time I’m not convinced that’s correct neck shots seem to be more effective. In hogs most people have moved to a neck shot the only problem with deer is that they can have a pretty thin neck. For me I think it would depend on distance.
My experience so far with lead free ammo in 8x57IS. The S&B Exergy just FMJs a straight path thru the animal particulary when not hitting bone. Long tracking regulary occurs for me and i dont have a dog. GECO ZERO drops them on the spot, however, they act like a frag grenade inside the animal and regulary destroy green organs. Never had any of these problems when using lead ammo. It also only costs a fraction of the price. Nerver heard of anyone with lead poisoning from eating venison before so its kind of hard to sell lead free ammo to me.
The Forestry Commission Eastern Region have been using non lead ammunition for around the last six years. The six Rangers shoot about 1,800 deer a year of various species. By my reckoning that is 10,000 deer plus shot and when I talked to them at a Deer Initiative event there several years ago all the Rangers said that they were quite happy with the non lead ammunition with which they were issued. I think it was RWS manufacture but don’t hold me to that.
You're doing a different type of hunting than here in the Rocky Mountains. I bow hunt elk in September and rifle hunt in November. It's not uncommon to take rifles shots at 300-500 yards, especially at pronghorn on the plains. I want to switch to copper and am trying to find evidence that people can use copper rounds and kill big game like elk at 300-500 yards the same way I do currently with lead.
Copper bullets don't expand worth a crap at ranges past 300-400 yds
Long range bullet manufacturers
Need to develop an all copper bullet that performs exactly like the nosler ABLR lead bullets since their goal is to outlaw lead
@@jamiehurtt3530 I agree with you for western hunting where the bullet reaches velocities nearing 2000 fps upon impact they are not a good choice.
@@jamiehurtt3530 All you are doing is Parrot mouthing talk from Bar room drunks who repeat the same lie over and over again and never in their life ever used copper expanding bullets.
Barn did a video squashing that lie shooting a Barns 30 cal 180 grain TSX into gel at 800 FPS and it fully expanded.
Another Barns video even on TH-cam is a Barns TSX bullet passing through a grape and showing the bullet was fully expanded.
I started guiding in 1978 so when the Barn X bullet came along, I used it and now the Barns TSX I exclusively use for all game and my Alaskan bear and Moose hunting clients are told to Bring Barns ammunition or go find another guide because my life isn't worth risking over a stupid client that brings deer ammo with lead cores for dangerous game.
I can further call out you are a liar because I load Barns TSX 165 grain bullets in 7.62 x39 and use them through a 16-inch barreled AR 15 to shoot Black tail deer and when finding one of these bullets in deer the bullet is fully expanded.
It would perhaps be useful if you would share the data you gathered from your test. Non lead is something that we are talking about in our syndicate, as it is only a matter of time before the game dealers force us down that route
great episode do geco do a completely copper bullet
I was surprised to find this "comparison" of lead vs non-lead in a current TH-cam video. You Europeans are so very far ahead of us "Yanks" in much hunting technology (scopes and suppressors/moderators) that I assumed the lead debate would have long ago been resolved. At least among the pros. That's not an insult, just an observation. Thanks for what appears to be a very interesting channel, and please add more videos of your stalker and his German Wire Hair. I've had 7 GWP's and Drathaars. Stalking game was the exact reason I bought the first 30 years ago.
Again, thank you!
there's the rub you can spend a lot of money finding out which round your gun likes. Example i buy a box of twenty rounds after 5 shots it becomes quite clear my gun hates them so i am now stuck with 15 rounds that are a waste of money as far as my gun is concerned . So i go out and buy another 20 rounds from a different maker my gun shoots them but the groups are not great and are not good enough for deer or fox shooting so i am stuck with another box of ammo that is of little use. 3rd time another box of 20 [this is getting expensive] hopefully its 3rd time lucky but there is no guarantee. Why don't the manufacturers do sample packs of say 5 rounds at a 1/4 the price of 20. As 5 shots should tell you if your gun works with them or not and you don't amass a load of surplice ammo that is of little or no use to you WHY?
Shit happens when shooting deer. 1988 I shot a deer..180 lb Whitetail through the heart and it ran over 400 yards with NO HEART! When I open the chest cavity the heart lay in a purple pulp clump inside the chest. The deer ran entirely on adrenaline purely. This shot was made at 65 yards with a 30:06 with a 150 grain soft point Federal High Shock bullet that leaves the muzzle at 2910 FPS. That bullet can take down anything on the North American continent honestly with shot placement exact. Shit happens. I have killed more deer with a .22 WMR with Winchester 40 grain HP @ 1910 FPS, doing crop damage control with head shots to be honest out to 100 yards with 0 issues, they just dropped to the ground like they were God Smacked! We take them with PCP rifles now with muzzle energies above 350 FPE consistently all the time. Shot placement is key my friends. Even then...SHIT CAN HAPPEN!💯👍❤️. It just the nature of the beast. We put in the time, make sure our gear is on point and as perfect as we can get it but still...as perfect as we can make everything in our control...SHIT HAPPENS Y’ALL! Copper or lead core...doesn’t really matter other than an environmental stand point really. God bless y’all. 🇺🇸💪👍💯
Europe ( light and middleweight animal) : Faster leadfree Ammo ist better, because they mushroom better ( placement in the front). I use Ammunition (Reloaded and Factory) with V0 850 m/sec upwards . Mostly V0 900 - 1100 m/sec. I don' t shoot at ranges when the Velocity drops clear under 700m/sec.
Your non-lead test series is very well done. But sadly, this video ended for me at 0:13 when he said, "25-250m". I need a cooper bullet that will preform at 1800 feet per second, not 2200-2500 feet per second, which was the case for most of the featured cartridges out to 250 meters. Even the lower velocity Sako Powerhead Blade 25:05, in 308 Winchester, is flying along at about 2085 fps at 250 meters. Once again, this test shows that copper bullets are great... if you can move them at velocities over 2200 fps. Here in Canada, where ranges often exceed 250m and more importantly, where impact velocities often drop below 2000 fps, I''ll be using lead bullets for a while longer.
Try Hammer bullets or GS custom HV bullets. They operate at all low as 1600-1800fps
@@calangel Would like to... but, I don't reload.
@@EdAb Acoording to Barnes, the TTSX (and LRX) bullets expand down to between 1500 and 1800 fps depending on weight and type. In the 308 you can shoot a 175gr LRX or a 168gr TTSX out to more than 400 meters and still be above that limit. One thing to remember is penetration at these ranges. Your lead bullet will shed weight and thus loose momentum, which the copper bullets don't. And even if they don't expand to more than 2x the original diameter at those ranges, which they otherwise often do, they will penetrate deeper into a large animal like a moose than any lead alternative could.
@@gregerblennerud6094
Thanks Greger, I appreciate your response. On paper, everything you've said is true, but the devil is in the unstated details.
Yes, Barnes does say their bullets "expand" in the range you've cited. I have spoken, on various occasions, to ballisticians at Barnes. Their loose definition of "expand" simply means the tip has deformed/opened, in uniform, circular pattern. Therefore, a tip that only opens 3-4mm, by their definition, has expanded. They have also told me directly, that their 168gr., 308 TTSX offers the "easiest" expansion in their 308 Winchester line. I was specifically told it will "expand" down to 1500 fps. When pressed by me, they clarified that statement and said, predictable, "full expansion" (double the diameter, or greater) will only occur above 2200 fps.
Shedding weight may not be ideal for some hunters. For me, I'd much rather have a bullet shed a little weight, with good penetration, than have a solid bullet pencil through a game animal, as if it is a non-expanding FMJ. Read the research of experts like Nathan Foster (Terminal Ballistics Research) if you would like a greater explanation of what I'm stating. Cheers
@@EdAb Thanks for sharing your discussions with Barnes. All I have been able to find has been references to emails re the "lowest velocities at which they expand". I have been thinking it may not be completely expanded but that big a difference in speed seems quite large. I guess it is a sliding scale though, and my experience with TTSX is that you often get more than 2x the diameter, especially with the LRX types. That is if they are ever recovered...
You could of course debate how much expansion is really needed, but I do see your point at long ranges. Which we can definitely have in Sweden as well, but never, or extremely seldom, really utilize...
Most game dealers in the UK will now only buy game that has been shot with lead free ammo as most of there meat ends up in the eu where lead is banned but i feel they should pay a better price for lead free shot game as the price of the bullets are much higher than lead average price for non lead factory rounds in my area is £99+ a box of 20 as apposed to £30 for 20 lead rounds non lead needs to become much more affordable lots of stalkers i know have now stopped selling to game dealers as the price of non lead is ridiculous.
I took a fox with Hornady ELDX 178gr in 308, a lead bullet, given it has higher bc it’s reported to expand even as low as 1600fps.
Fox at about 50m broad side through high chest and out other side and it ran away 100m, hid behind bush and was badly wounded. I had to stalk it another 100m and it would hide in shrubs. Finished with headshot.
The first round was high in chest and below spine and went straight through and so I felt a copper round would do the same.
I also err to super speed for copper or close range and I feel copper going through an animal is spreading the shock like a speer, neither transferring full energy in a concentrated point like hollow point or ballistic tip or bonded core.
Perhaps copper needs to be alloyed and made a little softer to work better for lead free choice.
@Fieldtester crew: Enjoying the reviews. Unless buried in the data you have collated and not found, Norma's Ecostrikes appear to be missing from all your reviews including AV's analysis. Why? They are patented with a unique coating to prevent copper fouling and the wear and tear copper can present. Really surprised I cannot find any analysis of them. Hope I am wrong.
Lead kills better. Nothing in copper has done as good of a job as the nosler accubonds I used to use before CA went lead free.
The head and neck shots were a waste of time, energy and ammo. All shots should’ve been body shots… and, not necessarily just high shoulder shots, either. A separate category for behind the shoulder, double lung shots should’ve been it’s own category, as well.
A 30-06? Well no wonder. Any .243 shooters?
a very good watch
I cannot understand the guy’s voice. He’s talking way too fast, when he’s talking about the lapua naturalis Ammunition! I’m trying to figure out how that Ammunition did. I’m looking to buy a bunch of it for my two 4390 green but I wanna know how it did and I can’t understand his voice at all what he saying about it.?????
Just wish more shops sold them in Cambridgeshire
Have you contacted Simpson brothers they stock them?
very few talk about the prices for a box in comparison and how hard it can be to get hold of... for nearly £2.50-3 a pop ..... for deer that is fine but for fox I don't think so....... :-/
Good work would have liked to see the results on sika as well, and with regards to chest shots would make more accurate results if high chest shots that hit spine weren’t included ?
Did the testers generally feel that the deer on average ran less far with copper bullets than with their previous lead bullets they were used to using?
What is the average flight distance if you remove all head/neck shots and only include chest shots?
It is a shame that the vast majority of deer were head/neck shot. This does skew the flight distance as you would not expect a head/neck shot animal to run at all and would drastically reduce the average flight distance of the overall test and in my opinion makes the flight distance statistic much less significant. I don’t think head and neck shots are necessarily a good test of copper bullets, a .22lr would (illegally) kill a stag if hit well in the head and most people who aren’t professionals will be chest shooting. My main concern is on reds in the highlands as that is what would affect me the most where they are pumped up during the rut and shots can consistently be 200m+. Ideally you would test chest shots only on larger species. I agree that copper and other alternatives are probably absolutely fine a putting down a roe deer in forestry at around 100m with a .270 but as I said I worry more about Stags in Scotland.
Hi..the average distance stated of 18.6 metres is only for body shot animals of which there were 130.
Copper works fine on larger game, they retain weight and penetrate very very well. 270 I’d look at 130 grain bullet, shot placement is important of course, but it’ll shoot very flat going almost 3000 ft/s. Heart or double lung and it won’t go far.
Great program as always, where’s Charlie?
Working on the next Fieldsports Extra 😁. / Charlie
Oh no, they could have used any bullet for neck- & headshots! So this test only interesting for the bodyshots - which are not many.
Yup...the lead phobes are gonna drink the anti lead Koolaid and try to convince themselves that nonlead solids are just as effective as lead-copper bullets.
We want the dancing outro!
Sorry don't know what problem is if non lead works use it
are they going to produce ammo for the .222 do u know legal cal for roe in Scotland
350+ deer 2/3 shot in the head neck region shock horror they didn’t lose any 😂
Head and neck 2:56!!! This proves nothing when comparing non-lead and lead. As far as I'm concerned, only chests shots are meaningful when making such a comparison.
@@EdAb unless you compare to shooting them in the head and neck....
Goes to show you that the notion of avoiding the head or neck is nonsense from people who think 2MOA is good enough accuracy for a hunting rifle. If you rifle load combo isn't capable of at least 0.75MOA consistently, then take body shots only.
I have a pair of eyeskys I bought direct from China ... they are equal if not better than my vortex ... but spend the money on the ED glass.
So with 308 in copper is 150 or 130 best?
Looked at the SAKO power blade in 6.5 Creedmoor but for some reason SAKO suggests the 6.5 is not as good as the 308 for Moose and Wild Pig. The 6.5 is widely used in the US for Hog hunting and large game so whats going on? Is a 6.5 Creedmoor suitable for all game in the UK and Scotland?
I suppose you refer to their simple charts with symbols indicating what animals you could potentially shoot with each bullet. Until recently, all Nordic countries (where Sako has their HQ) have had regulations stipulating higher weight and energy than what you can stabilize in a 6.5. Therefore I suppose Sako have chosen to indicate only deer for that bullet... But the fact of the matter is that 6.5 has been and is being used to shoot thousands of Moose each year in e.g. Sweden. Yes, right now it's traditional lead bullets, but the minute they change the regulation to what is being suggested, people will start using them for any "class 1 game" (Moose, Bear, Wild Boar etc).
If you are allowed to use it, I wouldn't put all that much into the Sako recommendation in this case...
@@gregerblennerud6094 Thanks for the detailed reply. As a novice, I am guided by more experienced shooters and hunters on TH-cam. Thanks again.
@@Elfin4 Turns out the regulations are about to change in Sweden now, October first in fact. After which we will be allowed to shoot any "class 1 game" with COPPER bullets down to 7.7g (120gr) and >=2000J at 100m. Lead bullets will still require >139gr and 2700J.
We are talking Moose, Bear, Wild Boar, Wolf, Mufflon and even Bison and Musk Ox (in the rare locations where they exist).
I guess one of the key differences is the fragmentation and loss of weight (momentum) that lead bullets have. As most copper bullets retain close to 100% of their weight, they will penetrate as deep or deeper than heavier lead bullets in the same caliber.
@@gregerblennerud6094 Great update, appreciate your feedback.. I'm always willing to learn and increase my knowledge.
hi im looking for jacket of 11:54 guy Thanks!
Summary: it depends. Thank you
What rifles are in the video?
Great work. This shows the same results as I have experienced for the past 10 years. Re the animal that was lost, could one of the factors be, the bullet failed to kill be due to the lack of bullet weight? Just a thought as the results I have found is a light bullet may not fully penetrate when challenged by heavy bone.
It’s been said...the desired results from researchers before the tests are conducted, are usually the results once the tests have concluded. It appeared to me most of these individuals wanted the nonlead bullets to work just as well as the copper-lead bullets. There seemed to be quite a few generalities spoken about the effectiveness of the copper bullets...avoiding specifics. If I’m not mistaken, the vast majority of the animals were shot in high shoulder, neck and head. My experiences with Barnes has been shooting deer in those locations are just as effective as with copper-lead bullets. However, using Barnes to shoot behind the shoulder, as in a double lung shot, is much less effective than with the copper-lead bullets...resulting in quite a few tracking scenarios. I noticed the behind the shoulder lung shot topic was quite avoided by these researchers. I believe it’s because they know the solid copper bullets are vastly inferior to the copper-lead bullets when striking this location on an animal.
I hate to say it...but Europeans seem to be such Koolaid drinkers when it comes to supposed environmental and/or health related issues. Just look at how they’ve allowed themselves to become the cult of Covid fear. Hell, if their governments told them all to get on the cattle cars to fight Covid...they’d do it without a fight.
Would prefer a David's haircut test...
We are going to have to use them soon enough so let's get on with it
I use a.222cal rifle for foxing will Remington or Sako still produce this round if so what bullet weight would I have to use at present I use Remington Accutip which is a 50 grm bullet with a ballistic tip thank you.
Only one 50gr non lead bullet that will work in a .222/.22-250 1:14” twist - Fox Classic Hunter tipless
@@bewsher500 who makes them.
30 gr fragmenting or 45 gr hollow point are available from Barnes.
How long do we have to get all of the lead bullets used up by?
Hopefully never
Light transmission, not, gathering. Get it right please.
Who the hell shoots for the neck? And the head shot is risky too I don’t care how “good” a shot you are
It also diminishes the meaningfulness of the test for the performance of lead free ammo. Especially with head shots, the shot either does not hit a vital area at all, or would even be lethal with a full metal jacket or even a 22lr up to 50m
@@schadavi
Exactly right for this "experiment" to be useful I want to see 100% chest shots.
Just last weekend I was hunting fallow with a 300WM running 150gr interlock SP but came across a large sambar, normally I run 165gr Barnes ttsx for these bigger deer so knowing a shoulder shot was risky due to the lack of penetration with a fast soft projectile I shot its neck and didn't even get an exit - but did get an ethical kill.
Lot's of people, sadly.
Norway.
For shooting deer, copper are fine, for target shooting they are rubbish. The game shooting industry are not the only shooting disciplines.
The shot distances aren’t even close to far enough to worry about the bullet not having enough velocity to open up. Kind of embarrassing to watch you make that evaluation.
Personally I really like monolithic bullets. However, consuming lead from bullets does not have a negative effect on the human body because it never gets in the blood stream and there’s not a peer reviewed study on the globe that proves it does.
Stop the cap!
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👍💯💯💯
whoo hoo... ammo review... and
1st ish
The last thing I would ever buy is Chinese garbage optics.
the Chinese make a lot of top quality high precision stuff these days pal. times have changed.
@Alfreds Pariah lol... better hand back 95% of your tec then pal... because even if it wasn't made in China, a good deal of its internal components will have been.
Everything is ''global' nowadays mate, never before has the phrase 'no man is an island' been better suited to describe the present.
@Alfreds Pariah lol... I doubt you are on China's 'watch list' mate. Get rid of your phone, go to the pub and relax.
By the way, if you don't do 'tec' then god help you if you ever need medical help... that's 100% tec... suppose you could always use some traditional Chinese remedies... oh shit... I forgot... f China 😂
Best of luck to you pal.
@@MKChase-uj9vx I guess you are ok with the intentional Murder of Fulin Gong and the Ugyers. Oh, name one thing the Chi Coms do well other than murder to stay in power. Now if they were referencing the Republic of China on Taiwan then well that is a different country and people!
18:35 a Stalin moderator?
Stalon moderator 🙂
Ciao dall'Italia. Se ad un animale gli spari 5 colpi a distanza giusta e lo manchi vuol dire che non sai sparare. Anche se hai le migliori cartucce e carabine.
Another surface deep 'test and review', priming the collective industry to bend over. Many hunters work in mountainous and arduous terrain, in dynamic weather conditions, and with heavier body weights beyond 200m, none of which is covered here. This review at best is simply entertainment and social priming; the only entity I've seen covering killing ethics to a worthy extent is Terminal Ballistics Research (NZ)
Im a highland contract deer manager and have had to use lead free on two properties. Cant say ive ever had an issue with non lead failing to perform.
Of my own free will im happy to keep using them.
Give them a try and a fair try then i think youl be supprised. I was.
@@johnventers5128 Thanks John, again, in this review(?) I raise the fact this only discloses a small aspect of performance. I appreciate your situation, though 'having to use' and 'free will' is somewhat of an oxymoron. www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Homogenous+copper+bullets+can+be+inhumane.html www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Effective+Game+Killing.html
@@clivejudd8585 i understand your point completely .
I should clarify, in the beginning i had to and wasnt happy about it but, now i would pick coppers just as readily as lead.
Its worth noting. Head and neck shots for me, arenthe exception. Im often playing numbers game and havent got the time or incline to make that type of time consuming precision dependant shot.
Im very familiar with mr fosters work and often go there first if im after some foundational information.
@@johnventers5128 Thanks John; yes, good to see his work being utilized by Norma Ammunition as well. www.norma-ammunition.com/en-gb/norma-academy/tags/terminal-performance.
Pick the right bullet and right caliber, you’ll be fine. We’ve had to use them for years in California, it takes adjustment but it’s not bad. Just different.
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They suck and you know it I used them and they suck most ram 100 yards or more
Pointless
Why do so many british people have bad teeth?
superior genes innit
Bad teeth is one thing but not doing anything about it is another story... it seems there are no dentists in britan
@@TheRitchway Yeah thats what i think too. Either dentists cost a fortune or people just dont care? I dont get it.
To much Lead in the diet !!!!!
Dental care is bad in the uk😉
You know for a fact lead would have dropped the second deer
Do thay reload well or have we lost that
You lot all look well feed and on lead shot deer ay
'For fact'? Really? I think you've missed the point of an objective test
@@pittorivers906 really his that how you justify that shot the truth is lead will always reign supreme
And you are all for getting rid P.S will reloading still be with copper
@@jamesturner7728 Led is softer and wouldn't done more damage than copper.
@@jamesturner7728 I don't need to justify anything. This is trying to be an objective test, 99.6% of all shots dropped the deer and was easily recoverable, in a scientific test the one shot that failed is more than enough of anomaly to be completely ignored in the findings. Whether lead would have done is not only unclear and unrepeatable, it's also irrelevant. What you describe as fact and truth is complete conjecture, and lead will hardly reign supreme when this test shows lead is on the way to obsolescence
@@pittorivers906 I’ll stop now I can see you are getting upset for that I apologise
Public land for all, not 350+ for the few!
Yeah that many deer between so few people just screams entitlement and elitism to me.
Holy shit bugger off you commie fucks
@@TheRitchway Between 30% & 70% of UK land is owned by the aristocracy.
That is appointed people with no elected basis or earning of such land.
If you want to keep losing more & more every year when it comes to fieldsports keep it this way otherwise it needs to change.
@@dvrn86 It's their job. They're game keepers.
@@diesel92kj1 Yeah, cause the government isn't banning hunting on government land. 🤔
my remington 700 30-06 shoots 1 moa with any lead amo and 8 inch moa with any copper amo... 1 in 9 inch twist not enough?
20-200yds, haha, get real. Some of those projectiles won't work properly, until they're out at about 500-1,000 yds. Let me know when you make a serious test.