If you’re sponsored by house of discs, you should be allowed to throw all 5 brands. If you’re sponsored by one of the brands for example Discmania you should only be allowed to throw Discmania. Would a house of discs player get paid more? Would that level of sponsorship be an upgrade from solo brand sponsorship? And does it give a player more prestige, respect and recognition? One things for sure, the players opportunity to earn money would increase being able to have team series or signature series discs from multiple brands and ultimately sell more discs for HoD 💪
Not being artificially hamstrung by your sponsor having an exclusivity clause in your contract shouldn't be viewed as an "unfair advantage". I can see why manufacturers would want us to accept the "only throwing one brand" as a baseline fact though... If other sponsors (or their sponsored players) raise concerns over this (or non-sponsored players being able to use any disc they want) they are indirectly saying that their product line doesn't provide all that a player needs to compete at the top level. I have no doubt that any pro on tour could switch "team" and play at the same level as they currently do within 6 months, after having gotten used to their new arsenal. Too many people focus too much on the material aspect of the sport (which is again in the big companies' interests), talking about which pro throws what brand, mentioning the disc thrown in almost every shot on some coverage etc.
Great video, thank you!!! Anytime you can expand your choice of discs has got to be an advantage to any player that finds a need for a different mold from their current sponsorship.
Appreciate the info on the corporate structure and the background of the house of cards. It is indeed interesting how Discmania has consistently highlighted that they are their own masters and even when someone else makes their discs or funds them or whatever, they make the calls. The one point I didn't quite get in the end was the fairness of having so many options. A player is completely free to throw an open bag and say Infinite sponsored players seem to back discs from a slew of manufacturers so I wouldn't be too worried if Eagle could throw a Berg into his bag.
I think the molds will be rebadged for each brand. Lets say Eagle likes the Rive. It could be rebadged for Eagle as a new Cloudbreaker type disc...etc. Something along those lines.
I just hope this doesn’t end the active line partnership with yikun, and I only care because the premium sensei is one of my favorite discs. For sponsorships, it seems like a kastaplast / discmania duo deal for those players would make sense, like trilogy or like innova and millennium, dga and discraft, etc. Do you see this group buying Viking or clash, etc. in the future?
I feel players should be able to bag discs from all 5 companies. That said, I could see Kyle and Eagle throwing Rekos instead of P2s but I am sure Discmania would not want that especially after over emphasizing no real big changes with the acquisition. I think it may have made Triology stronger and in the long run I think House of Discs will be stronger as well by having ALL "team" members throwing plastic from all of their groups manufacturers. I dream of a mixed bag future for everyone. Most of us started throwing mixed bags, heck I even had a couple of Lightning discs in my bag and a couple of Super Puppies. They say I am a dreamer but I hope I am not the only one.
it's just words, not binding. those words don't actually mean _anything_ . companies by other ones all the time. and then, sometimes, they start to liquidate employees to fund the acquisition, and sometimes not. sometimes they consolidate production or product lines, sometimes not. we'll have to wait and see what actually happens over the coming 2 years.
Nice piece. Is independence a state of mind ? Perhaps, we'll see how it unfolds. Usually when money is tight the independence thing is the first to go.
House of Discs keeps their companies independent to maximize shelf space and brand awareness. Most players don't know or care about House of Discs or who owns what. House of Discs should encourage their pro players to bag about 10% of their discs from across their brand lineup to provide some competitive advantage and to get discussion going along the lines of "Ricky really bombed that DD3."
I knew they were tied together somehow, but didn’t really know how it worked until a couple weeks ago when disc shop guy explained it while we were watching dgptc. So probably even before this announcement. He said (as he understands it) “players from the trilogy can bag 3 discs from other manufacturers, like Ricky with the harp” so I don’t know. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I’m relatively new to playing, so it’s been fun learning. Lat64 has where I have most success, but i just like throwing plastic so doomsday has been so much fun
Innova is FoMoCo or Toyota. DD, L64, Westside are Mazda, BMW, and Subaru. Innova has 7 of the top 10 selling discs. There must be significant marketing and operational efficiencies to merging the others' overhead and financial structures. They must need scale to compete. But they don't want to hurt loyalty.
Innova only does one thing well that’s flood the market with their discs. Walmart and gas stations. Every trade in store has stacks of those mediocre discs. But oddly consumers still buy them. The two really stand alone manufacturers are Discraft and Prodigy best plastics best consistency with flight dependable and reliable
Well, what they do is have similar molds with the different brands. Turth and Claymore are remarkably similar. Then you get a pro version (like the emac truth) which will be more exclusive. I am looking forward to a trilogy Berg.
I'd rather the five companies let their pros mix up their bags. But it doesn't make a lot of sense for the companies to allow that. Economics and marketing would dictate a narrower range of options allowed for the pros. I don't feel it would be an unfair advantage for the pros to have their pick of five companies. If you play well enough and handle your business obligations as a pro you can get sponsored by a company with a wide range of discs. The sport is so young, it is a very interesting era to witness.
I personally don’t think pros, outside of trilogy, should have a mixed bag. If that was the case then every pro should play for infinite discs. I’m also biased because I love discmania plastic and molds.
So Trilogy is now Pentalogy? All jokes aside, why not? I mean, if they're all thriving together I don't see any downside. What "unfair advantage" could it create? There is no limit to the amount of discs a manufacturer can make so, if any HOD branded disc takes off Discraft or Innova could make a "clone" and offer similar discs to their players.
I know this announcement was made today, but didn’t we know about this in the spring? I recall a TH-camr recently making a comment about a Discmania ‘halo’/‘orbit’ disc saying how much it felt like Royal plastic. They got a message back from Discmania emphasizing that they made their own discs. Anyway, it all seems a bit disingenuous to me. On the idea of Matty O throwing a Cloudbreaker… I imagine that everyone will get a BERG in their bag and that will be it. (On another note, with Trilogy releasing Moonshine 2.0, we can see the benefits of the House of Discs already)
Discmania has had some of their molds manufactured by L64 for several years now, so I wouldn't have taken another example of that as a particularly strong indication that they'd been purchased.
The unfair advantage issue is a nothing burger. The manufactures write the contracts and limit the bag selection for the players, not some committee or rules board. That'd be like saying a player for Infinite has an unfair advantage because they can throw a buzzz and a destroyer, but you're not seeing Drew Gibson tear up the tour cuz he can have a hatchet next to a glitch.
I think one of the reasons could also have been Simon leaving "recently" when this first happened. In a way trying to ensure costumers that it was not a big deal. Or rather another blow to the company on top of that.
I don't believe there is any advantage using multiple dg manufacturers. Would love if the players had the freedom to choose other discs. Example if eagle started throwing the felon
Well, I don't think anyone wants a monopoly,and I always get concerned when I see outside money attempting to consolidate a product. I see nothing wrong with players using other firms' discs, etc., as long as the (overall, actual) sponsorship is up-front and clear to the fans. I know there's something like a percentage of discs pros can toss that are outside of there direct sponsor line. Why not open it up? This coming from a player/fan who is always looking for that next great disc and checks frequently what the top players are throwing.
I personally believe that HOD sponsored players will and should get the opportunity to throw all 5 manufacturers. I don't believe it gives an unfair advantage. I view it similarly to an Infinite Discs sponsored player, or OTB sponsored players. Sure.. the HOD sponsored player may be a little more prestigious than another through title alone, but I don't believe it gives an unfair advantage. Does an unsponsored player have an advantage against someone who is sponsored due to a limited (one manufacturer) bag? I don't believe so. These manufacturers have just about every type of disc a player could ask for. There is no disadvantage to a single-sponsored bag. Also, there is no disadvantage to a HOD bag.
Anyone else feel less interested in buying discs when there are large corporate private investors involved? I may just be disillusioned, but I’d prefer to support a more local/American made/community centered brand. At this point idk what brand that would be though.
If you think massive consolidation is good for the overall market, you are just plain wrong. Jussi just has $$$ on his mind, like when he controlled Simon. Poor Eagle has been the top of the pyramid, but he has grown into enough of a home-schooled mind to realize that he pulls the cards at this point. I give Lonestar 2 seasons max before they run out of capitol, MVP is organic and will last, Innova and Discraft will never sell out, they make a quality product, treat their players right, and have enough years and heart in the game to let all this pass by. What this shows is who is desperately weak in this market. I feel bad for the players honestly. Thankfully EO and the Bjerkaas's got out. Rusco is a wannabe Jussi. He didn't even budge when he had a super solid crew under him that rallied so many before the pandemic. His loss. I hope Ricky takes him to the bank with bonuses. Clock is ticking for so many in this environment while Innova and PMB sit making slow moves that make sense. Fun to watch, with 3d glasses, but not so fun if you are a sponsored player in the hedge fund.
Time. The narrative initially will always be "nothing will change", and of course, they need to say that to ensure people will continue to support each respective brand. When private equity invests in something like Disc Golf what are they looking for? Of course, they want to eventually turn their investment into a sizeable profit themselves. This can be done in different ways but eventually they need to make "House of Discs" and attractive investment for when they themselves sell the company whole. So ultimately over Time they will craft a company, slowly weed out the weaker brands, take the best talent, ideas and product from each one. The end game may be 10 to 20 years from now when they sell the company to the likes of Nike or Adidas. My money is on Adidas buying House of Discs and Nike will end up buying Innova and whatever else is left in the USA. Just speculation of course!
I'd have to disagree with you. DD having Ricky, Latitude having their stellar marketing and Kristin Tattar, and Discmania aren't dying companies. Quite the opposite, I think Discmania as a brand is stronger than it's ever been since taking control of their manfacturing. They're retooling and reinventing their line and have done a wonderful job through marketing to sell that product. I dont believe that any of those three brands make mediocre discs or struggle for consumers.
You’re not wrong. The Discmania purchase was smart as there is still some mindshare worth having and a fanbase that still exists. Buying top level pros doesn’t always equate to sales. It worked for Discraft and MVP but I don’t think sales boomed because of Ricky. Powergrip released their Q3 sales amongst brands and DD was 11th. L64 was 7th. Westside was 10th. Discmania was number 2 behind MVP (no surprise there).
@@Tolkningsforetrade Powergrip is actually European market first, then they added a store in the US. Not sure what the sales are in Europe. The stats I shared are in the US.
House of discs is just not an American company, and the wholesomeness of your lack of perspective in regards towards that is endearing. They are hardly dying, btw. Any of several of their dribs and drabs of touring pros happen to have gotten some large wins recently. So.
If you’re sponsored by house of discs, you should be allowed to throw all 5 brands. If you’re sponsored by one of the brands for example Discmania you should only be allowed to throw Discmania. Would a house of discs player get paid more? Would that level of sponsorship be an upgrade from solo brand sponsorship? And does it give a player more prestige, respect and recognition? One things for sure, the players opportunity to earn money would increase being able to have team series or signature series discs from multiple brands and ultimately sell more discs for HoD 💪
Great comment, I agree.
Not being artificially hamstrung by your sponsor having an exclusivity clause in your contract shouldn't be viewed as an "unfair advantage". I can see why manufacturers would want us to accept the "only throwing one brand" as a baseline fact though...
If other sponsors (or their sponsored players) raise concerns over this (or non-sponsored players being able to use any disc they want) they are indirectly saying that their product line doesn't provide all that a player needs to compete at the top level.
I have no doubt that any pro on tour could switch "team" and play at the same level as they currently do within 6 months, after having gotten used to their new arsenal. Too many people focus too much on the material aspect of the sport (which is again in the big companies' interests), talking about which pro throws what brand, mentioning the disc thrown in almost every shot on some coverage etc.
Great video, thank you!!! Anytime you can expand your choice of discs has got to be an advantage to any player that finds a need for a different mold from their current sponsorship.
Appreciate the info on the corporate structure and the background of the house of cards. It is indeed interesting how Discmania has consistently highlighted that they are their own masters and even when someone else makes their discs or funds them or whatever, they make the calls.
The one point I didn't quite get in the end was the fairness of having so many options. A player is completely free to throw an open bag and say Infinite sponsored players seem to back discs from a slew of manufacturers so I wouldn't be too worried if Eagle could throw a Berg into his bag.
Are you sure it doesn't go back to Black Rock and Vanguard???
Does it???! Serious question
They own some of everything
Love the shirt. Big Missy fan. Love her game, and she’s a New Yorker. Favorite FPO
I think the molds will be rebadged for each brand. Lets say Eagle likes the Rive. It could be rebadged for Eagle as a new Cloudbreaker type disc...etc. Something along those lines.
Not sure they’d go to that level of work and rebranding for any single player
I just hope this doesn’t end the active line partnership with yikun, and I only care because the premium sensei is one of my favorite discs. For sponsorships, it seems like a kastaplast / discmania duo deal for those players would make sense, like trilogy or like innova and millennium, dga and discraft, etc.
Do you see this group buying Viking or clash, etc. in the future?
I feel players should be able to bag discs from all 5 companies. That said, I could see Kyle and Eagle throwing Rekos instead of P2s but I am sure Discmania would not want that especially after over emphasizing no real big changes with the acquisition. I think it may have made Triology stronger and in the long run I think House of Discs will be stronger as well by having ALL "team" members throwing plastic from all of their groups manufacturers. I dream of a mixed bag future for everyone. Most of us started throwing mixed bags, heck I even had a couple of Lightning discs in my bag and a couple of Super Puppies. They say I am a dreamer but I hope I am not the only one.
it's just words, not binding. those words don't actually mean _anything_ .
companies by other ones all the time. and then, sometimes, they start to liquidate employees to fund the acquisition, and sometimes not. sometimes they consolidate production or product lines, sometimes not. we'll have to wait and see what actually happens over the coming 2 years.
Nice piece. Is independence a state of mind ? Perhaps, we'll see how it unfolds. Usually when money is tight the independence thing is the first to go.
House of Discs keeps their companies independent to maximize shelf space and brand awareness. Most players don't know or care about House of Discs or who owns what. House of Discs should encourage their pro players to bag about 10% of their discs from across their brand lineup to provide some competitive advantage and to get discussion going along the lines of "Ricky really bombed that DD3."
I knew they were tied together somehow, but didn’t really know how it worked until a couple weeks ago when disc shop guy explained it while we were watching dgptc. So probably even before this announcement. He said (as he understands it) “players from the trilogy can bag 3 discs from other manufacturers, like Ricky with the harp” so I don’t know. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I’m relatively new to playing, so it’s been fun learning. Lat64 has where I have most success, but i just like throwing plastic so doomsday has been so much fun
Innova is FoMoCo or Toyota. DD, L64, Westside are Mazda, BMW, and Subaru. Innova has 7 of the top 10 selling discs. There must be significant marketing and operational efficiencies to merging the others' overhead and financial structures. They must need scale to compete. But they don't want to hurt loyalty.
Innova only does one thing well that’s flood the market with their discs. Walmart and gas stations. Every trade in store has stacks of those mediocre discs. But oddly consumers still buy them. The two really stand alone manufacturers are Discraft and Prodigy best plastics best consistency with flight dependable and reliable
If im not mistaken i believe players sponsoered from certain smaller brands are allowed to have a percentage of their bag to be different brands
Well, what they do is have similar molds with the different brands. Turth and Claymore are remarkably similar. Then you get a pro version (like the emac truth) which will be more exclusive. I am looking forward to a trilogy Berg.
I'd rather the five companies let their pros mix up their bags. But it doesn't make a lot of sense for the companies to allow that. Economics and marketing would dictate a narrower range of options allowed for the pros. I don't feel it would be an unfair advantage for the pros to have their pick of five companies. If you play well enough and handle your business obligations as a pro you can get sponsored by a company with a wide range of discs. The sport is so young, it is a very interesting era to witness.
I personally don’t think pros, outside of trilogy, should have a mixed bag. If that was the case then every pro should play for infinite discs. I’m also biased because I love discmania plastic and molds.
I think they should all be able to throw and get signature molds from any house of disc molds.
So Trilogy is now Pentalogy? All jokes aside, why not? I mean, if they're all thriving together I don't see any downside. What "unfair advantage" could it create? There is no limit to the amount of discs a manufacturer can make so, if any HOD branded disc takes off Discraft or Innova could make a "clone" and offer similar discs to their players.
There is already open bag competitors how is it different than that
I would like to see a player sponcered by house of discs and throw all 5 companies discs. Not sure the manufacturers would like that.
It's the archer not the arrows other wise open bag players would be at an advantage.
I know this announcement was made today, but didn’t we know about this in the spring? I recall a TH-camr recently making a comment about a Discmania ‘halo’/‘orbit’ disc saying how much it felt like Royal plastic. They got a message back from Discmania emphasizing that they made their own discs. Anyway, it all seems a bit disingenuous to me. On the idea of Matty O throwing a Cloudbreaker… I imagine that everyone will get a BERG in their bag and that will be it. (On another note, with Trilogy releasing Moonshine 2.0, we can see the benefits of the House of Discs already)
Discmania has had some of their molds manufactured by L64 for several years now, so I wouldn't have taken another example of that as a particularly strong indication that they'd been purchased.
The unfair advantage issue is a nothing burger. The manufactures write the contracts and limit the bag selection for the players, not some committee or rules board. That'd be like saying a player for Infinite has an unfair advantage because they can throw a buzzz and a destroyer, but you're not seeing Drew Gibson tear up the tour cuz he can have a hatchet next to a glitch.
I think one of the reasons could also have been Simon leaving "recently" when this first happened. In a way trying to ensure costumers that it was not a big deal. Or rather another blow to the company on top of that.
Why not carry different discs from different manufacturers within the same "family" of companies? I would.
I don't believe there is any advantage using multiple dg manufacturers. Would love if the players had the freedom to choose other discs. Example if eagle started throwing the felon
Well, I don't think anyone wants a monopoly,and I always get concerned when I see outside money attempting to consolidate a product. I see nothing wrong with players using other firms' discs, etc., as long as the (overall, actual) sponsorship is up-front and clear to the fans. I know there's something like a percentage of discs pros can toss that are outside of there direct sponsor line. Why not open it up? This coming from a player/fan who is always looking for that next great disc and checks frequently what the top players are throwing.
I personally believe that HOD sponsored players will and should get the opportunity to throw all 5 manufacturers. I don't believe it gives an unfair advantage. I view it similarly to an Infinite Discs sponsored player, or OTB sponsored players. Sure.. the HOD sponsored player may be a little more prestigious than another through title alone, but I don't believe it gives an unfair advantage. Does an unsponsored player have an advantage against someone who is sponsored due to a limited (one manufacturer) bag? I don't believe so. These manufacturers have just about every type of disc a player could ask for. There is no disadvantage to a single-sponsored bag. Also, there is no disadvantage to a HOD bag.
Anyone else feel less interested in buying discs when there are large corporate private investors involved? I may just be disillusioned, but I’d prefer to support a more local/American made/community centered brand. At this point idk what brand that would be though.
I don’t like the consolidation of the companies
His legal fees caught up to him. First he sold Simon then had to dump it all
The Firm
If you think massive consolidation is good for the overall market, you are just plain wrong. Jussi just has $$$ on his mind, like when he controlled Simon. Poor Eagle has been the top of the pyramid, but he has grown into enough of a home-schooled mind to realize that he pulls the cards at this point. I give Lonestar 2 seasons max before they run out of capitol, MVP is organic and will last, Innova and Discraft will never sell out, they make a quality product, treat their players right, and have enough years and heart in the game to let all this pass by. What this shows is who is desperately weak in this market. I feel bad for the players honestly. Thankfully EO and the Bjerkaas's got out. Rusco is a wannabe Jussi. He didn't even budge when he had a super solid crew under him that rallied so many before the pandemic. His loss. I hope Ricky takes him to the bank with bonuses. Clock is ticking for so many in this environment while Innova and PMB sit making slow moves that make sense. Fun to watch, with 3d glasses, but not so fun if you are a sponsored player in the hedge fund.
Much expected
House of disc is creating a monopoly. Capitalism in disc golf sucks...
Time. The narrative initially will always be "nothing will change", and of course, they need to say that to ensure people will continue to support each respective brand. When private equity invests in something like Disc Golf what are they looking for? Of course, they want to eventually turn their investment into a sizeable profit themselves. This can be done in different ways but eventually they need to make "House of Discs" and attractive investment for when they themselves sell the company whole. So ultimately over Time they will craft a company, slowly weed out the weaker brands, take the best talent, ideas and product from each one. The end game may be 10 to 20 years from now when they sell the company to the likes of Nike or Adidas. My money is on Adidas buying House of Discs and Nike will end up buying Innova and whatever else is left in the USA. Just speculation of course!
Makes me not want to by any of the discs.
House of Disc is a odd company. Buying up dying disc companies. Those brands make mediocre discs and struggle for consumers.
I'd have to disagree with you. DD having Ricky, Latitude having their stellar marketing and Kristin Tattar, and Discmania aren't dying companies. Quite the opposite, I think Discmania as a brand is stronger than it's ever been since taking control of their manfacturing. They're retooling and reinventing their line and have done a wonderful job through marketing to sell that product. I dont believe that any of those three brands make mediocre discs or struggle for consumers.
You’re not wrong. The Discmania purchase was smart as there is still some mindshare worth having and a fanbase that still exists. Buying top level pros doesn’t always equate to sales. It worked for Discraft and MVP but I don’t think sales boomed because of Ricky. Powergrip released their Q3 sales amongst brands and DD was 11th. L64 was 7th. Westside was 10th. Discmania was number 2 behind MVP (no surprise there).
@@TwoOneSe7enis powergrip US only? Europe is a big market as well, and here I would think lattitude is lot bigger than in US…
@@Tolkningsforetrade Powergrip is actually European market first, then they added a store in the US. Not sure what the sales are in Europe. The stats I shared are in the US.
House of discs is just not an American company, and the wholesomeness of your lack of perspective in regards towards that is endearing. They are hardly dying, btw. Any of several of their dribs and drabs of touring pros happen to have gotten some large wins recently. So.
I don't like cooperation take over. Time to support disccraft