How the laptop repairs future looks like. When the hardware meet software. Asus Zenbook 13 UX325JA
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I agree Sorin, the technology is going in the wrong direction. It seems like they don't want you to fix devices anymore. Richard from "Learn Electronics Repair" channel has a new video where he had a weird problem with a laptop which he couldn't repair. He mentioned you in his video and said you inspired him to start his channel. I want to thank you Sorin for inspiring Richard. I watch both channels because they are the best two electronics learning channels on TH-cam.
yeah I saw that one, I will have to go back to the comments and see if anyone has added any extra information to it.
@IlGhostlI At the moment the customer took the laptop back so he could backup his data from it and then buy a new one. As you saw from the video, I could get it to boot windows in very specific conditions, and then it would keep on working until powered down.
@@LearnElectronicsRepair can you link to your video?
They have gone the apple way, making things as unrepairable because they have seen apples succes at it so they followed
@@LearnElectronicsRepairsubscribed
We should be creating a list of models using these types of chips that essentially make the laptop unrepairable. That would allow those of us in a position to make recommendations to consumers to avoid those models.
lol really? a usb c port needs a controller chip so get a same model chip and replace it with hotair and u good to go. has nothing todo with making devices unrepairable. u guys are such paranoids maybe usmoke to much weed
SORIN ! This is your best video I've seen ! You didn't do anything, only discussed how you diagnosed the problem. VERY INTERESTING
I had a Lenovo E470 that did something like that, after a BIOS update. I did go into the BIOS and setup so that it was possible to downgrade the BIOS. Then I downgraded BIOS from 2.07 to 2.06 - and the problem was solved. Now the charger is working consistently.
So you had enough battery % to play with BIOS to restart? Or You buy new battery? I was thinking about to buy battery, but I have no guaranteed that battery will arrive recharged minimum up to 50% to let me try, and play with BIOS. Any idea ? 🤔
Sharing your knowledge is a great help, but the way you explain is your most valuable skill in my humble opinion. Thanks Sorin.
Never underestimate the programers ability to create bugs. Updating the driver may have updated the firmware for the SOC Power Management. See if you can track down the update that the customer did and hopefully the manufacturer discloses a changelog etc. Also assume there may be a 'safemode' charging mode for when the laptop is stored long term pre retail. I have noticed that the Asus Zenbook out the box ignores the power button and switches on automatically when the charger is connected for the first time.
"I have noticed that the Asus Zenbook out the box ignores the power button and switches on automatically when the charger is connected for the first time."
Hi Tim, What does this mean? I always thought it was a short? I have a Lenovo Flex 10 which does this and when I checked the CMOS battery, it gave a low reading so assuming that it could be this that's causing this glitch? Could you shed any light? Thanks!
Following in Apple's footsteps. You have to go back to manufacturer. Not only proprietary software but also password protection to prevent copying ... have heard about this happening. Samsung actually uses software that can block/brick their TV's. They are trying to force repairs only by an authorized source.
Yes, multiple models are coming with SoC as PMIC like the latest Intel MacBook's and the new ones. You could try the suggested solution below, ME Partition cleaning in the SPI programming. I had one wich turned on the CPU without fan and was consuming like 800mA on VCC_Core while injecting voltage, multiple chips were showing high temperatures, turned out to be a bad SPI.
You mean eeprom? Or flash? Spi is just an interface
In this type of repair I think oscilloscope are needed. While You couldn't see source of that 0,4 voltage, You can see is there is type of communication (that prove that IC's working fine) or needless pulses, that should not suppose to be.
Don’t worry about these difficult repairs Sorin. Just turn it off and back on again this usually works. Give it a try . good luck 💪
Hi Sorin, if customer mentioned what driver it was, you may be able to find flash content in this driver and compare with content in chip. Next step would be to find older version of driver and take older version of flash content from it. It all depends on how driver was prepared and if you can extract information from it.
I like watching your investigation and I appreciate your thought process as it is logical.
Charge the battery with the external battery charger that you have,turn the laptop on and install the ME firmware update package .
i am a embedded programmer and it is always a good practice using a pmic with an low power M0 coprocessor. I am not surprised at 05:00 considering Cypress portfolio.
Out of all comments, I think being able to read the 1mb spi flash and saving it with the 8 pin clip is a start. Then reflashing the earlier bios on the main one instead of the one you did flash. Idk if you flashed the newest one or the one before that.
Clip a 8pin probe to the Memory chip and verify that you can read it.
Connect KIT PSOC MINIPROG4 to the SWD pins of the PMIC and see if the PMIC is talking.
Thank you for the great videos!
I would check voltage with oscilloscope on charging port at the moment of pressing a power button.
Most chips that have internal firmware, have a painted dot,like from nail polish.Ofc a chip that small won't have it,but whenever I encounter such chips,unless I can extract a working one from another board,it's game over...
Power management technology, makes sense when battery life of modern PCs is a key strategy for consumer electronics
Many times driver updates include firmware updates, and this may be a victim of that.
I'd suggest to charge manually battery (or put another one) power the pc on without ssd, reset and after flash bios (sometimes in bios option it's also possible to allow downgrade), hoping it flash also Pmic software
Very interesting! Thank you Sorin!
Maybe you can try erase pmic bios chip, and let it empty. Maybe pmic will boot into recovery mode, and waiting for i/o chip to reprogram pmic bios, right now we don't know how pmic bios is being program by driver package. Usually if we upgrade the firmware/bios, pc need to be restarted, in order to complete bios installation. Maybe that pmic bios is using the same method. You might need to reflash the main bios to the older version. Newer bios might contain faulty code in it.
it's very possible that the firmware of the usb-c charger ic or ec is faulty. there are possibilities to flash those chips over the ccg interface (pd controller), but u will need an adaptor. infineon is selling those controller flash boards (but it's not that simple). but maybe there is a chance that replacing this chips will result in a reflash of the ccg interface via the bios or reflashing the bios will result in a self reflash of the flash rom inside the pd and/or ec. but for this procedure u need at least some power from the battery. i don't think the dedicated bios is for the pd firmware but for thunderbolt (but maybe i'm wrong. in this case clear the bios on the 1 mbit rom ic)...
This reminds me of all the hassle the macbook repair community has since 2016, when Apple decided to use undocumented CD3215 (and later CD3217) from TI, which you can't officially buy. There is one per USB-C/Thunderbolt port, and each two CD321X share a ROM chip. I think the power sequence they implement is only community documented since 1 or 2 years now.
Apple clearly has slowed down non-official shops with this move, but they haven't stopped us
Almost all companies are moving to the apple side to get a bit more money. Its sad! Unrepairable ewaste and locking things and soldering things
Awesome video, and good explanation 👍
Liked this video a lot txt enjoyed every single second of it
Hi Sorin. Lenovo also has software that controls battery charging for battery saving that laptops are always on charge. But it's not working while system is off and it can't be because when it's off disk drive is not reachable and no one can fix it in that case. so the problem is not this software I think. My guess is there is another component that is lowering 3.3 volt when it's try to start laptop. When laptop starting IO chip is giving power to other chips like sound chip and wireless chip e.g.. if there is short for example sound chip when it's enabled and getting power from 3.3 line it will lower the voltage. So if there is something that taking too much current power supply will work harder and it will heat up. Heating up is not always means fault is there. You know it I'm sure about that. Like a resistor. If there is too much load other side of a resistor, resistor will get hot because something is getting too much current. BTW changing the USB controller chip probably can't fix the issue because chip has flash memory inside that stores functions definition program in it. So it should need to be programmed before changing. Probably USB controllers bios chip is storing only settings for chip.
Thanks, very interesting situation. Perhaps things are simpler than you think???
Sorin, Richard at Learn Electronics Repair gave you a shout out and asked for your guidance in his latest YT upload.
You can run Doom inside the charge controller while charging the battery, awesome
Mr Sorin! The driver created the issue so full charge the battery on bench power supply,start windows that you say it works and install the olders drivers that worked. Probably this is a driver like tpm or power management engine or someting like that.
I thought it was an issue when I only saw 5V off the USB C input. It should start off @ 5V but jump to 18V to indicate normal charging of internal battery/computer. I can see more issues with USB C for charging and providing power to computers now.
this is a something like on dell servers. Before start server, at first starts idrac small server, witch is control a base server.
May be check the input voltage of the 6A 3.3 driver input: may be the battery voltage is converted to 12 volt by one large voltage regulator (apple style design) but may be if there is only 3.3v required the 6A 3.3 gets 3.3v as an input voltage? Suppose later on the common voltage rail is than 12v or your typical 19v that in that case the coil upper mosfet is shorted which would instantly destroy the cpu pch: the only way to prevent that is to open the lower mosfet also to drain the sorted upper mosfet to ground and hoping for the best. It is a wild stab.
It is the same circuit like the lenovo L580, L590 and L15, the PD chip has the firmware on a 1 megabit chip, I have fixed a ton of them, very tricky ones.
I'll tell you more, if the bios gets corrupted the replacement bios needs to have the same signing as the EC chip firmware, otherwise the computer won't even turn on, it's like it's dead but all voltages are there.
yes sorin i agree with you..
If the bios supports both UEFI and legacy - in a way low/high complex code size, then looking at the EZ-PD CCG5 which has 128kb internal flash,
could it be possible that the PM chip boots from its internal flash, and then loads whatever else it needs from external flash?
- and if so, would it boot/work if the external flash is 'removed', ie not accessible - so the EZ-PD boots into a safe-mode?
The Atmel 16u2 is micro that is a serial to USB controller. It's been used on Arduino's for ages.
good one sir very informative video
there is always on 3.3 can help make it enable signal to test
I was thinking about a same thing and hoping that in the name of science he will at least try it :)
It will drain battery but if he only get it to boot once and reinstall that problematic driver maybe it'd help.
interesting video,learned a lot......thanks for sharing.
Well if it was working from battery only after the driver got installed, could you not charge the battery and then uninstall the driver that was installed or revert it back to original using roll back driver? I've typed this before watching all of the video.
Depends how much the laptop is worth it you could use a arduino as a man in the middle between the enable signals.
I once replaced an entire mcu with self written arduino software to control a motor, leds and switches. It is possible to fix it 😅
The 'great' thing about that progress is that you need the flash software when you replace Chip, which you do not get. So it's getting more and more unrepairable.
If people stop buying these shitty laptops companies would soon be reverting back this decision. But since people continue supporting apple no matter what shit they throw at consumers, it will never end. As a matter of fact that's why it's so important to support Right to Repair from Louis Rossman.
Well if it was working from battery only after the driver got installed, could you not charge the battery and then uninstall the driver
Finally my man is in
I'm not an expert on laptops, much less on this problem in particular, so with my limited knowledge, what I would do is try to replicate the conditions in which the laptop turned on, and research from there.
Ty for show this eror cool
Don't show Louis Rossmann this video,he'll have a flippin fit 😬
Thanks 👍
If the driver fuck up the software of power management chip it means tha the driver contain a software update. So what are you looking for it's probably within the driver package. Download the content of the chip in order to check the initial data .... then it's possibile to look for it in the sys/exe/etc of the driver package.
Also if you can show the chips Identification marking on the chip i could look for the manufacture and see what i can find there to help.
Throw in a 'live linux' flash drive and start it up, if it comes on, it's not a hardware problem, if it doesn't, must be software issue, at least that's what I would try first. Customer needs to bitch at the software/driver maker.
Oh, and excellent video Sorin, I was able to follow you through every step, you explained it well!
What are you talking about?
How is it going to boot to Linux without powering on the BIOS chip?
@@incandescentwithrage Well, let's see, logic would tell me that if a 'driver install' caused the OS to stop allowing the computer to start up, remove the damned hard drive, then throw in a flash drive with linux, thus 'bypassing' the driver that's trying to load, thus preventing the computer to start. Maybe I'm too dumb to see this? 🤔
@@randyr.parker2698 The software causing the problem is in the memory of the charging IC if you boot any type of OS the laptop won't change his behavior.
@@maissix242 Then the 'owner' of the laptop needs to send the piece of shit back to the place he bought it from for a full return of his money, and tell them to start building better computers or he'll sue their ass into oblivion! How damned long are people going to put up with the bullshit from these manufacturers? And, I'm not just talking about computers, I'm talking about ANYTHING that uses these 'new' electronics, such as cars. They've become their own monsters.......PERIOD! My next vehicle will be a horse and buggy, and my next computer will be back to pen and paper. If you don't stand up to the nonsense now, you deserve EVERYTHING you get in the future!!!!!!!
This is beyond bios level problems. Laptop won't startup if power supply dosen't startup .
Maybe the chip software is up-gradable? That is why there is a processor and external memory?
Asus might have a program for to run a software upgrade?
Yay my 12 Y.O garbage laptop who I paid 40$ for it still works and I do not want to buy a new laptop because I like this one more then the new once.
''you will own nothing and you will be happy!'' Future will be one piece integrated cristal bowl that will predict you that the circuit is predicting that,
شكرا لك اعانك الله
some configuration in bios like disable quick start or something
I had a newer dell a user said it was blue screening randomly , it could be hours or it could happen constantly the user let it update to windows 11 and did not tell me that when she brought it in , I tried all sorts of things trying to figure out what was going on .. I called the owner and asked if anything change at all when this started and come to find out she said it updated the day before.
I started in safe mode and did a restore a week back and it ran perfect after that
an analog guy in a digital world. 🤗
I've got a samsung with that same cypd5225 chip coming back in a few weeks to get the cypd5225 chip replaced. I'm very interested in pulling the data off that 1MB bios and seeing what's there
Sorin,
Is it possible to hack the 3.3 and get the laptop to power up and then just reinstall manufacture drivers and see if it will re-write the corrupted chip software?
If the chip has corrupted fw, can you just delete it and format it. If its empty i assume there will be backup somewhere and bios should try and recover it to factory settings?
i see absolutely no problem here. It is not programmed chip you have no firmware to, it is not a chip you need cypress evaluation board to flash, just a plain 3v reg, which is obviously shorted by some consumers somewhere below the power sequence.
i can obtain the schematic & boardview from internal source. but it will be encrypt & open only by special version of boardviewer.
Sorin, where do you get your clear glue sticks? thankyou.
Сорін, схоже що драйвер, який встановив клієнт містив якусь прошивку для цього чіпу живлення. Можливо, якщо підзарядити батарею за допомогою твого обладнання, завантажитися до ОС і встановити коректний драйвер з сайту виробника, то цим самим відновиться прошивка цього чіпу живлення. Я думаю це варто спробувати зробити.
Hello Sorin, I have that working board, I'm in Uganda. I don't know how I can help you. But thank you for the video, the job though one.
Can you go to the Discord group and tell him that?
The specification for the chip that is getting hot says that it has “Over Temperature Protection”. The data sheet for the suffix A version says Over Temperature Protection with Auto Reset. Could the dropping of the 3.3v after a second or two be due to this? Naturally, it doesn’t explain why the chip is getting hot, it just complicates finding out why? If anyone has already commented on this point my apology.
But if you don't find the contents of the SPI flash for the power management chip with the CPU.
So, assuming that it was a coincidence that the laptop went wrong during the installation of some driver, it could be some unstable probably one bit of the mentioned SPI flash and maybe you will try cooling spray or read the content of the SPI flash at 3V and 3.6V via chip programmer to compare whether there's no difference, because that's how it's normally done if no one has published the contents of this memory before you.
The second variant is that the customer has upgraded the bios and part of the bios upgrade is also the upgrade of the spi memory content for the power management chip.
Or is there a driver in Windows that affects the power management chip?
And from what I've read, most of the comments here not make logical sense :)
Ask the customer for the driver file used. From there check bin to see if it's flashable directly, be it or an older version that was known to work.
Longshot and seems less likely these days but many can still be flashed directly.
if anyone have that same laptop to read dump of that bios chip and maybe you can try to flash it.
Someone commented here that he has the same board and working, but probably Sorin will not see the comment here. Discord is probably better
Have you tried to inject 3.3V where you had 0.4V? I'd build an additional charge circuit and run a laptop this way ;). Would be cheaper for the customer, and still fully functional ;).
Ok, so, just watched to the very end. I'd say find some good connection in the Asus service ;) and ask them for a help. They have an access to all of those magic tools ;) you need. The same for other brands, but not Apple :D. This should be banned :D.
The manufacturers can now break hardware using software. Programmed obsolescense
They have gone the apple side but instead of locking hardware they also lock software
i suggest to go forward within data recovery or graphics card repair cause these are the future of repair
Hi Sorin. you can try to erase this chip. maybe the laptop will start. make a backup first (-;
I was wondering if it was the capacitors around the chip maybe one of the is only half working.
they made sure that right to repair is not going to happen any more lol
please update if anything changes
nowadays laptops are not able to do services because of inbuild processor inbuild ram the manufacturer mindset is once the board gets problem customer going to buy new laptop in that ways only they are designing the circuit
I think I have this 1MB file
As per the customer claim, that the laptop continued working on
the laptop until the battery is empty, why is not working now with the battery have some charge? It does not make any since! If it is correct, then you can charge the battery or connect power supply and start the laptop.
i have a big problem with these nowadays USB C Laptops without usual Charging Port! If the USB C Fail, that is a common problem, the whole Laptop is dead!
I have a Dell Precision 3551 with USB C/Thunderbold and Chargingport. The Charger that coming with the laptop was a USB C one.
I spend extra 40$ for a usual Charger, cause i do not want to use the Thunderbolt Slot for Charging!
Hi Sorin please check Compal_LA-J191P schematic. This is having same chip
Hello Sir can you share your Bios and PMC Bios files .
I HAVE NO COMPUTER SKILLS, BUT CAN THE DRIVER THE CUSTOMER INSTALLED BE UNINSTALLED, OR COULD YOU RESTORE THE OS TO A PREVIOUS version when the pc worked? (sorry about the caps, I hit cap lock by mistake) Thank you, you're the best.
What name you have in discord?? Tnx for your videos😁
Software issue after installing a driver you say? Won't that just reset when taking out cmos battery, and all other power sources, then remove all peripherals like ram (if possible) pressing power button 30 seconds after that, and leave it like that for a day (or two)?
7:31 "speak" not "spoke" in this context, someone correct me if i am wrong, ............or too nit-picky.
there is a HARD RESET for Asus laptops press and hold the power buttion for 40 second
After this hard reset, what about pressing F2 or F12 after pressing the power button? If the laptop is working, this procedure can bring the BIOS screen alive again.
Could it be that the user run the Intel Management Engine driver? I think this driver also updates the Intel Management Engine firmware automatically.
#righttorepair
try getting the laptop on, then do full firmware update with official asus tool
Hi. I have the same problem with a different Asus laptop. A customer spilled a liquid on it and now because of that small piece of information missing I can't fix the board ... they are new laptops. It's been nearly a year and I haven't found the board.
Another reason I never ever do updates
Reverse Engineering it...Brutforce it....lol..Mad Design
Zenbook 13 ux325e and ux325ea is same baterry bro?
Well, I think if the computer becomes faulty updating drivers like here, then the manufacturer should be responsible for that and should fix it for free. And repair shops can take money for diagnosing problems.
Maybe issue is corrupted bios.