Cool stuff! What saves me tons of fuel is not bringing your water to a full boil. Just hot enough for coffee and rehydration your food. No sense in having everything too hot to eat or drink. Figured this out really quick on the PCT 🙂
Yes. The additional energy (latent heat) needed to convert water at 100°C (liquid) to steam (a gas) is measurable and uses extra fuel to bring about this gasification. Back in the 60's in our high school science lab, we conducted experiments in to the physics of 'latent heat'. That is why steam at 100°C burns far worse (scalding) than water at the same temperature .. due to the additional heat released when the steam (gas) converts back to water. (liquid).
This right on. I use a Peak 1 and BSR depending on hike. Some people think that the BSR is inefficient because the unregulated gas valve can be opened way too wide blowing much flame outside the pot. Just moderating this makes huge improvement.
I've watched about 15 vids on this subject today and finally 1 that is actually accurate and told me exactly what I was looking for thanks for all your hard work
get an olicamp or firemaple heat distribution pot. jetboil doesn't own the tech for the heat fin technology, and you can get similar performance as a jetboil with lighter weights, with the added benefit of choosing different stoves that meet your needs better.
To increase efficiency in your initial setup here, you could try a wider cook pot, as in larger diameter, so less heat escapes. Also, your top mounted burner could connected to a MSR Lowdown adapter, making it a remote canister stove. Increasing the carrying weight of course, but also make it possible to isolate the burner inside a windscreen without overheating the canister (which now stands outside of the windscreen)
Anyone worried about efficiency in the wind just needs to buy an MSR Windburner. Basically works equally well with wind than without wind. Great video!
Great video! Just returned from a 6 day, 75 mile section hike on the PCT in Oregon. l have the Jetboil Zip and carried a 110g fuel canister. Because we did not watch your video, my hiking buddy carried a spare 230g canister for backup. By the end of our trip, we were both surprised that we were still using the same 110g canister! I believe we made just under 20 boils for both dinners at night and coffees in the morning. Later, I will see how many more boils we could have got out of that 110g canister. The Jetboil is definitely worth the weight!
@@jonallenoutside It was epic! Skyline Rd at Timothy Lake to the Washington side of Bridge of the Gods. Got rained on a couple of times, but had a great time. Beautiful views and some tough climbs. Next year we will do another section.
It was interesting to see that the lid didn’t really impact efficiency. I wasn’t expecting that at all. SnowPeak makes a windscreen for their canister stoves. I think in the field, when we account for wind, the low fuel setting efficiency might go down without the windscreen. I use my canister stoves on a low setting for fuel efficiency - if I can hear the “rocket sound,” it’s not low enough. But going that low I also hear the wind blowing the flame around without the windscreen. When I say windscreen, I mean something that protects the flame from the base of the flame upwards. On a canister stove, you never want a windscreen around the canister itself as it can explode. In terms of cold weather testing, you tested the impact of colder water but not the impact of a colder fuel canister. Maybe you can put both a pot of water and the fuel canister in the freezer for an hour to simulate air temps in the 30s. I’m not saying bring the water to ice, just both fuel and water to temps between 30 and 40. Or post a follow-up video come November. The JetBoil to SnowPeak/pot debate is one I’ve also thought about. While, from a weight standpoint on a longer trip, it might be a wash due to the Jetboil’s efficiency, you can fit the small canister and Snow Peak stove in your 750 ml pot, making for a solution that takes up less space in the pack and, overall, something easier to fit in small empty pockets between existing gear. There’s a reason some of these thru-hikers get away with a 40l pack - they go stoveless. Likewise, you can go with a smaller pack when your cook system takes up less space.
Great thoughts. There are several follow up experiments I’d like to do. I tried low heat in the wind on a trip earlier this year and it wasn’t boiling after 20 minutes. I think wind seriously hurts the efficiency of the low setting but experiments would back up my theory.
No reply necessary. Very good video, at last on fuel efficiency rather than boil times. Packed full of sensible ideas. A windscreen is a must, the Jetboil heat exchanger design does provide that too, which is a huge plus. Shopping for a HE pot at this very moment, Thank for the interesting information. Take care Best regards Colin
Would have liked if you also used a windscreen on your tests, they improve the flow of heat towards the cup and also they warm up the canister a bit so I would guess that improves the heat output of the gas in cold weather.
Optimal might lie between? Between Jet-Boil and bare-pot? Caldera-cone, for example (2oz?)? Or maybe just a 5-mil (0.005") titanium foil skirt extending one-inch below the bottom of the pot (0.5oz?)? When the efficiency-improvement is lightweight enough, it becomes a no-brainer?
Jon, another truly valuable backpacking video. I really learned a lot thanks to all of your research! I was 1/2 way thru watching and wondering if you were going to mention the Jet Boil and was glad you did. I switched to a JB after seeing how quickly my hiking buddy’s boiled water. Your research proved that it was a good decision even though it weighs more! Nice work!
Good video Jon, i often wondered if a lower setting would be more effecient, i know on my kitchen stove at home i use a lower setting with a smaller pot, your testing showed that my theory was right. Seen a lot of vids where they cranked up the flame to full bore, where the flame was going up the side of the pot, whenever i asked the reason why, never got a respose. Thanks!
Great advice for those longer distance trails, high elevation and/or cold weather hikes. Thank you! I also advise bringing a sheet of layered aluminum foil to conserve heat during windy days. My JetBoil MicroMo weighs just 12.0 oz. The french press adds 1.3 oz. Still less than 14 oz. I will apply this on my JMT hike in June, where the water is always cold and the elevation is high. Perhaps I will bring a some black felt to lay my clear cnoc water bags on while setting up camp. 😁
If you switched your pot to one similar to a jetboil with the fins on the bottom and was a large diameter would help. something like the olicamp pot would make a big difference. you loose a lot of heat when the flame wrapping up the side of the pot
Making this video saved me on my last hike. I was down to fumes in the can by the last day and likely would have run out of fuel had I not taken steps to be more efficient along the way.
What saves me fuel is using a foil wind screen, even if there’s seemingly no breeze. Of course, with canister stoves I don’t completely enclose the foil screen around it for obvious reasons. And , I always top off partially full/empty canister before each trip so I know I have a full canister.
If you make a cone using tin foil that starts at the top of your pot going down to the bottom of your pot you can greatly decrease your boil time. It traps heat.
First off good video lots to look at, lots of great information. I always use a lid when boiling water. To be honest I thought that by using the Jet Boils System you'd be going through a lot more fuel, who knew. Myself I'm never in a hurry, whether it takes 2 minutes or 10 minutes to boil water, 10 minutes is totally fine. My life runs by the day not by the minute. I can wait the extra time it takes for a good hot cut of tea. LOL Also I noticed that different canister stoves burn a lot different than others. This too will have a bearing on a test like you performed.
I wonder if a new canister has higher pressure effecting the burn rate. And in the cold you can carry a water bottle in your jacket or in your sleeping bag at night to warm it up a few degrees.
This could be a contributing factor since canisters lose pressure as internal volume decreases or when at lower temps. Pre-warming of canister in your jacket, sleeping bag or quilt should help with burn efficiency.
Yup, this was going to be my comment. The wider pots are more fuel efficient and boil faster because less heat is wasted going up the sides. Skurka uses a wider Evernew pot; I assume it’s just for this reason. Gear Skeptic on YT also conducted tests showing the higher efficiency of the wider pots. Jetboil way too big and bulky.
Don't crank up the volume/burn rate. Burn slower. The heat that flows around the bottom and up the sides does NOT transfer much heat to the pot and is just a waste. Use a good burner with a wind screen not cheap Chinese micro weight burners that don't have as good a air/fuel mix. Yes a lid will help contain the heat especially at or near the boiling temperature of water. But this is especially important when cooking food not just boiling water.
All of my Canadian and European trail friends use Celsius for temp, so it would help me communicate with them more effectively if I got used to that system.
Thank you for a great video. Appreciate the time and detail. Have you ever watched the Mesner videos on stoves and pots? th-cam.com/video/uPZsJdveLlI/w-d-xo.html. Long story short, jetboil pots are great, but the stoves themselves are not as good as a Pocket Rocket or Windmaster. A Stash pot heated by a different stove would be the ultimate fuel saver, but also very expensive.
Cool stuff! What saves me tons of fuel is not bringing your water to a full boil. Just hot enough for coffee and rehydration your food. No sense in having everything too hot to eat or drink. Figured this out really quick on the PCT 🙂
Great tip! Thanks for sharing.
Agreed, better to pre-filter water than have to get it to a rolling boil, just to wait 5 minutes for it to cool down. 🤣
Does this kill enough bacteria though for it to not make you sick?
@@laaaliiiluuu no, but you should be filtering or treating your water anyway.
Yes. The additional energy (latent heat) needed to convert water at 100°C (liquid) to steam (a gas) is measurable and uses extra fuel to bring about this gasification.
Back in the 60's in our high school science lab, we conducted experiments in to the physics of 'latent heat'.
That is why steam at 100°C burns far worse (scalding) than water at the same temperature .. due to the additional heat released when the steam (gas) converts back to water. (liquid).
Outstanding evidence-based analysis, thank you sir.
You are welcome. I use this info all the time on trail.
One of the most practical and useful hiking videos I've seen in a very long time -- excellent work! Thank you!
Thanks!
This right on. I use a Peak 1 and BSR depending on hike. Some people think that the BSR is inefficient because the unregulated gas valve can be opened way too wide blowing much flame outside the pot. Just moderating this makes huge improvement.
Sometimes saving enough fuel for one or two more boils is enough to get you to the next town and avoid running out.
This has academic rigor - I love it. Thank you for doing the work to be precise.
I've watched about 15 vids on this subject today and finally 1 that is actually accurate and told me exactly what I was looking for thanks for all your hard work
Great video Jon. Very helpful to know that low temps are more efficient.
get an olicamp or firemaple heat distribution pot. jetboil doesn't own the tech for the heat fin technology, and you can get similar performance as a jetboil with lighter weights, with the added benefit of choosing different stoves that meet your needs better.
Or Primus Eta Pot, which predates the Jetboil stoves and was the original.
To increase efficiency in your initial setup here, you could try a wider cook pot, as in larger diameter, so less heat escapes. Also, your top mounted burner could connected to a MSR Lowdown adapter, making it a remote canister stove. Increasing the carrying weight of course, but also make it possible to isolate the burner inside a windscreen without overheating the canister (which now stands outside of the windscreen)
@@HUZ9k3s5w Thanks for the suggestions! Good info.
Anyone worried about efficiency in the wind just needs to buy an MSR Windburner. Basically works equally well with wind than without wind. Great video!
Thanks, gr8 stuff. In my experience, in the climates I walk in,wind is the big variable for my boiling time
@@nickcrosby9875 Wind definitely makes a difference. Thanks for commenting.
Great video! Just returned from a 6 day, 75 mile section hike on the PCT in Oregon. l have the Jetboil Zip and carried a 110g fuel canister. Because we did not watch your video, my hiking buddy carried a spare 230g canister for backup. By the end of our trip, we were both surprised that we were still using the same 110g canister! I believe we made just under 20 boils for both dinners at night and coffees in the morning. Later, I will see how many more boils we could have got out of that 110g canister. The Jetboil is definitely worth the weight!
Yes, it makes a huge difference on fuel. Sounds like an awesome trip!
@@jonallenoutside It was epic! Skyline Rd at Timothy Lake to the Washington side of Bridge of the Gods. Got rained on a couple of times, but had a great time. Beautiful views and some tough climbs. Next year we will do another section.
It was interesting to see that the lid didn’t really impact efficiency. I wasn’t expecting that at all.
SnowPeak makes a windscreen for their canister stoves. I think in the field, when we account for wind, the low fuel setting efficiency might go down without the windscreen. I use my canister stoves on a low setting for fuel efficiency - if I can hear the “rocket sound,” it’s not low enough. But going that low I also hear the wind blowing the flame around without the windscreen.
When I say windscreen, I mean something that protects the flame from the base of the flame upwards. On a canister stove, you never want a windscreen around the canister itself as it can explode.
In terms of cold weather testing, you tested the impact of colder water but not the impact of a colder fuel canister. Maybe you can put both a pot of water and the fuel canister in the freezer for an hour to simulate air temps in the 30s. I’m not saying bring the water to ice, just both fuel and water to temps between 30 and 40.
Or post a follow-up video come November.
The JetBoil to SnowPeak/pot debate is one I’ve also thought about. While, from a weight standpoint on a longer trip, it might be a wash due to the Jetboil’s efficiency, you can fit the small canister and Snow Peak stove in your 750 ml pot, making for a solution that takes up less space in the pack and, overall, something easier to fit in small empty pockets between existing gear.
There’s a reason some of these thru-hikers get away with a 40l pack - they go stoveless. Likewise, you can go with a smaller pack when your cook system takes up less space.
Great thoughts. There are several follow up experiments I’d like to do. I tried low heat in the wind on a trip earlier this year and it wasn’t boiling after 20 minutes. I think wind seriously hurts the efficiency of the low setting but experiments would back up my theory.
@@jonallenoutside in the Sierra, I always cook behind a bolder or rock stack that provides the stove complete shelter from the wind.
Wow! Great video. I took out my phone and started taking notes and I don't do that often.
No reply necessary.
Very good video, at last on fuel efficiency rather than boil times.
Packed full of sensible ideas.
A windscreen is a must, the Jetboil heat exchanger design does provide that too, which is a huge plus.
Shopping for a HE pot at this very moment,
Thank for the interesting information.
Take care
Best regards Colin
Would have liked if you also used a windscreen on your tests, they improve the flow of heat towards the cup and also they warm up the canister a bit so I would guess that improves the heat output of the gas in cold weather.
Great suggestion!
Thank you!
You are welcome. I use the stuff I learned while making this video all the time.
Optimal might lie between? Between Jet-Boil and bare-pot? Caldera-cone, for example (2oz?)? Or maybe just a 5-mil (0.005") titanium foil skirt extending one-inch below the bottom of the pot (0.5oz?)? When the efficiency-improvement is lightweight enough, it becomes a no-brainer?
Jon, another truly valuable backpacking video. I really learned a lot thanks to all of your research! I was 1/2 way thru watching and wondering if you were going to mention the Jet Boil and was glad you did. I switched to a JB after seeing how quickly my hiking buddy’s boiled water. Your research proved that it was a good decision even though it weighs more! Nice work!
Good video Jon, i often wondered if a lower setting would be more effecient, i know on my kitchen stove at home i use a lower setting with a smaller pot, your testing showed that my theory was right. Seen a lot of vids where they cranked up the flame to full bore, where the flame was going up the side of the pot, whenever i asked the reason why, never got a respose. Thanks!
I'm going to do some more testing to see how wind impacts efficiency. I think it's going to be a lot, but we'll find out through experimentation.
I use a Bulin kettle that has the Jetboil style thermal bottom. It averages 75 seconds to come to a boil. Much more efficient than a plain bottom pot.
Yup, those are WAAAAY more efficient.
ABSOLUTELY EXCELLENT!!!!!
THANK YOU!!
Glad you liked it!
Great advice for those longer distance trails, high elevation and/or cold weather hikes. Thank you!
I also advise bringing a sheet of layered aluminum foil to conserve heat during windy days.
My JetBoil MicroMo weighs just 12.0 oz. The french press adds 1.3 oz. Still less than 14 oz.
I will apply this on my JMT hike in June, where the water is always cold and the elevation is high.
Perhaps I will bring a some black felt to lay my clear cnoc water bags on while setting up camp. 😁
If you switched your pot to one similar to a jetboil with the fins on the bottom and was a large diameter would help. something like the olicamp pot would make a big difference. you loose a lot of heat when the flame wrapping up the side of the pot
Totally agree. I might get the 900 mL Olicamp cook pot next time I’m at REI. That will give me an excuse to make another video to compare performance.
Excellent information! Great math
Making this video saved me on my last hike. I was down to fumes in the can by the last day and likely would have run out of fuel had I not taken steps to be more efficient along the way.
This is so helpful. Thanks for doing this
Basic tip, measure the water you actually need in a cup. Boiling excess water wastes time and gas.
What saves me fuel is using a foil wind screen, even if there’s seemingly no breeze. Of course, with canister stoves I don’t completely enclose the foil screen around it for obvious reasons.
And , I always top off partially full/empty canister before each trip so I know I have a full canister.
Good idea.
Excellent breakdown, much appreciated. JetBoil is the way to go.
If you make a cone using tin foil that starts at the top of your pot going down to the bottom of your pot you can greatly decrease your boil time. It traps heat.
@@citrumpet1 Nice! I’ll try that when I eventually do a follow-up to this video.
I'd be super interested to know whether cooking in a stainless steel cup was more efficient than titanium.
Good idea. I'll add it to the list of things to test.
Is there any way to refill them like the small propane? Thanks
Yes, there is an adapter you can buy. You take a big canister and fill the smaller one using the adapter.
Thank you for such useful and helpful videos!!!
You are welcome. These are fun to make.
First off good video lots to look at, lots of great information. I always use a lid when boiling water. To be honest I thought that by using the Jet Boils System you'd be going through a lot more fuel, who knew. Myself I'm never in a hurry, whether it takes 2 minutes or 10 minutes to boil water, 10 minutes is totally fine. My life runs by the day not by the minute. I can wait the extra time it takes for a good hot cut of tea. LOL Also I noticed that different canister stoves burn a lot different than others. This too will have a bearing on a test like you performed.
I wonder if a new canister has higher pressure effecting the burn rate. And in the cold you can carry a water bottle in your jacket or in your sleeping bag at night to warm it up a few degrees.
It did seem like the flame got lower as the canister became more empty.
This could be a contributing factor since canisters lose pressure as internal volume decreases or when at lower temps. Pre-warming of canister in your jacket, sleeping bag or quilt should help with burn efficiency.
Use a wider pot for more efficiency
Yup, something I’d like to test and quantify in the future.
Yup, this was going to be my comment. The wider pots are more fuel efficient and boil faster because less heat is wasted going up the sides. Skurka uses a wider Evernew pot; I assume it’s just for this reason. Gear Skeptic on YT also conducted tests showing the higher efficiency of the wider pots. Jetboil way too big and bulky.
Don't crank up the volume/burn rate. Burn slower. The heat that flows around the bottom and up the sides does NOT transfer much heat to the pot and is just a waste. Use a good burner with a wind screen not cheap Chinese micro weight burners that don't have as good a air/fuel mix. Yes a lid will help contain the heat especially at or near the boiling temperature of water. But this is especially important when cooking food not just boiling water.
grams and Fahrenheit. I AM CONFUSED.
You should decide to use either metric or imperial. Better to have both units
Nice video
All of my Canadian and European trail friends use Celsius for temp, so it would help me communicate with them more effectively if I got used to that system.
Great analysis! Now - let’s add an alcohol stove to the mix, eh? ;)
Jetboil all the way!
For those who watched the video till the end, did he ever mentioned how to make fuel cans last longer? pls help.
Boil water on a lower setting for a nice reduction in fuel usage. Using a JetBoil also helps, although many people won’t want to buy a new stove.
@@jonallenoutside you damn right they won't: too bulky, too expensive.
Thank you for a great video. Appreciate the time and detail. Have you ever watched the Mesner videos on stoves and pots? th-cam.com/video/uPZsJdveLlI/w-d-xo.html. Long story short, jetboil pots are great, but the stoves themselves are not as good as a Pocket Rocket or Windmaster. A Stash pot heated by a different stove would be the ultimate fuel saver, but also very expensive.
ᑭяỖｍｏ𝓼𝐦 🤗