I was the proud owner of a 1966 Corvair Monza - bought it stock with 800 original miles in 1968. By then, there were dozens of aftermarket performance products for Corvairs in California, and I made good use for them: I removed the stock carburators, had a Crown ram induction manifold installed with a Holley 4 barrel mounted on top, 3/4 cam, installed Hedman headers with glass-pack mufflers, a Bosch racing ignition coil, dual-point distributor, spring tensioner for the fan belt pulley, opened up the fenders and installed 14" wheels with the new Goodyear radials, and had a fiberglass aero body kit installed with racing/fog lights. I routinely did a "road commute" every 2 weeks from West Los Angeles to San Francisco down the I-5. Several times I would fill up the gas tank, leave from SF or LA sometime between 2:00am - 3:00 am and once I would get on the 1-5, I would turn on my radar detector, and that Corvair would hit 120mph in a short distance. I would drive at that speed for 2- 4 hours heading in the mostly straight with relatively few exits and NO cars on the road - only semi trucks. My time record from San Francisco to West Los Angeles was 4 hours and 28 minutes, and I still had about a 1/2 gallon of 76 Union Plus in the tank . Those were the good ole' days!
God bless this man! I met Tom at the 1990 CORSA Convention in Ontario, CA. Such a warm, humble, down to earth guy. A wonderful ambassador for the Corvair. Thank you Tom for your many contributions and tireless enthusiasm.
Semi serious about looking to buy one. Hopefully a later yr stick car in good shape. Whats a range these days $$ for a clean driver? Sound presentable but not a show car?
Tom I greatly appreciate you posting this video. You are legendary amongst Corvair fans! I remember reading an article on you and your car but I had forgotten in ran on propane. In 1970 my father and I rebuilt a 1965 Monza and since he owned a LP Gas bulk plant and had been converting cars, trucks and tractors since 1953 we used propane for the Corvair. Bought a modified 140 from Bill Thomas using a Ieco ram manifold with an Impco 4bbl carb. Mounted 2 aluminum fork lift cylinders in the trunk and ran engine oil in the converter. The power and performance far exceeded our expectations! We went to the inaugural (I think) CORSA convention in Chicago . My dad had signs made calling the car the Clean Air Vair. It was the 2nd fastest in the slalom and appeared on a local TV news segment during the convention. The response to the car convinced my dad to buy John Fitches' Sprint business and build modified Corvairs we called Sprints and Cavaliers. PS. about a month after the convention the engine developed a knock and when disassembled we discovered it had 13:1 compression. What you said about the capability of the Corvair chassis is dead on. We built a Crown Corv8 with a 450hp 327 that I drove 150 mph at Road America. People don't realize what a great car the Corvair was.
I met your dad at the 1973 CORSA convention in Anaheim, CA. We ended up sitting at the same table at the banquet, (you may have been there). He told me about converting his Corvair to LPG and the Cavalier project and I enjoyed talking to someone who had a lot of experience with Propane conversions. I vaguely remember that Eric Dahlquist, who was the editor of Motor Trend magazine and the main speaker at the banquet, was interested in buying a Corvair Cavalier from you folks. Bruce, if you are familiar with the Corvair Forum, look me up and send me a PM. I've got some photos I'd like to share with you. Tom
Bruce, On the Corvair Forum, go to the Forum list---then select "search"-- then do a search on "tomkeo". At least one of my postings should come up, then you can send me a PM. Tom
@@tvkperformance5968 Tom, I just did tomkeo, I have done TVK Performance and Tom Keosababian. Your full name yielded 9 responses but it was people mentioning you.
@@bruceherschberger1871 Bruce, Here's the steps to follow: You said you had joined the Corvair Forum so go to then select then in the "Go to" bar select search. In the search mode, type in . You should then see a number of postings from me on various subjects, click on any of them (make sure it's from me) and scroll down to the end of the dialogs and you should see a response box. If you signed in, your name should be listed so go ahead and select and message me and send it. (Be sure to include your email address.) The private message will not be posted anywhere except to me. This should work. Tom
Tom, you are my Corvair hero. Just awesome what you have accomplished w/ your Corvair, debunking all of the various myths that have followed the Corvair since Nader's publication hit the stands. My mother Rallye raced her turbocharged '64 like no other and loved her Vair. I'm currently working on a '65 converible that I'm converting from 4-speed to automatic, as I'm a wheelchair user. Thanks for the motivation to get working on it again . I'd gotten really discouraged after a shouler replacement surgery.
Thanks for your kind words. Years ago I built a turbo engine and put a PG trans on it. It was a ball to drive. I'm sure you will have just as much fun driving your convertible. Tom
Same with the " PINTO " it was the runabout model with the problem and yet all models & all pintos painted badly, how ever as time passes how good ( actually great) these cars are
Since you're dealing with some body work but you're a Corvair fan and open to myth busting, I'll just suggest you look into a carnivore diet. It's like turbocharging your body. Look up Dante Ferrigno & others. Best of luck.
When I saw your engine, I immediately went and got my book by Bill Fisher, "How to Hot Rod Corvairs", because I thought your engine did not look like the one in the book. I was right, but wrong. The book's picture showed a stock looking turbo with a 2 bbl carb, and intercooler. But then it said that you went 134 mph in 1966, which is still impressive. Back in the early 90's I built a turbo Corvair engine with the E-flow turbo, smaller A/R turbine housing, Porsche K-Jetronic F.I. and put it in a VW Karmann-Ghia. THAT was a fun car! Cool video, Tom!
Thank you for posting the excellent explanation to the non-corvair motor heads. A 1963 vair with eighteen miles on it straight from the Chevrolet dealership competed in the famous Canadian winter RALLY. The stock vair won every stage ! Nuff said.
In 1967 I purchased a turbo powered Cutlass. The previous owner had ended up taking the vehicle to Ak Millers garage in Santa Fe Springs Ca. Ak was the premier shop (actually the only shop) that knew about turbos. He installed his own water injection system, a Corvair vacuum advance for the distributor and vacuum pressure gauge from a surplus store that originally was used in a WW2 aircraft and at least 3 other modifications. He is absolutely correct if the previous owner had not spent the money to fix several factory defects there’s no way I could have put over 70K on the car. Great vid!
@@supersami7748 GM was strange. Seems they were heavily influenced by the steel industry, they still bash aluminum ( literally) when their competitors use it. That V8 was sold to Leyland motors, it was used in many specialty vehicles, but was the main motor in the Rover for a good stretch. Fun to rebuild a classic Olds or Buick with modern upgrades. Cheers 🍻
I've been playing with Corvairs for almost a half-century now. Currently have about eight (maybe nine, I'd have to go count) in the fleet, and a couple tons of parts. It keeps me off the streets... ;-) None of the so-called handling defects of the '60-'63 models ever gave me any trouble, and my favorite regularly driven Corvair is a '60 4-door, supposedly the worst of the crop if you believe the armchair "mechanics". I also have late models in the fleet, plenty of respect for the entire Corvair lineup.
@@albundy8052 Two '65 models, both ragtops, one a Monza and the other a Corsa which has suffered from the metal mites because of some less-than-well-done bodywork that happened before I got the car as a derelict, then refurbished it, drove it for years, even had its photo appear in an issue of the Corsa Communique (many years ago) but the rust has gotten pretty bad. :-) There's a '66 Monza ragtop project that we just gave to my daughter who has decided she wants in on the "Corvair resto-thing". There's two 69 Monzas, one was involved in an accident that badly damaged the car to the point of turning it into a parts car, some girl ran a stop sign and t-boned it HARD, enough to leave me bleeding and the car bent sufficiently to shatter the backlight glass. Still have it but it's being slowly parted out. The other '69 is in storage, local car, never lived anywhere else but here in town, needs paint. It's time is coming. There's a '67 500 coupe that is pending a sale. A '68 coupe with a holed piston (likely gonna put the bashed and battered '69 car's engine it it), and two '60 models, one a 4-door I've had since 1984 and is original/unrestored and was worn when I bought it so you can guess what it looks like now but it's a good runner and it still has solid bones... a '63 Spyder ragtop and a '62 Monza ragtop... and a '60 Monza coupe in storage. And a Lakewood wagon also stored. I guess I miscounted the first time... ha!
I ran across an ad for a Paxton supercharger kit for my Corvair. If I recall it cost $300 at the time, being single with money to burn I was all in. I had to do a modification on the rear engine mount to attach the blower drive pulley, among other things. The blower was mounted where the spare tire was located. The blower rotation was opposite to the engine rotation, so the drive belt was positioned in a figure eight to match each rotational requirement. What a blast. One night at 2am on a lonely stretch of I-94 I put the pedal to the medal. Of course I had no idea how fast I was going, I had gone way past the end of the speedometer and had it pegged. I noticed a pair of headlights far to the rear. I was approaching the Detroit city limits so I slowed down. Soon the police flashing lights on the car behind me made me pull over. The officer said he was going 135 mph and I was pulling away from him! Lucky for me I happened to know the officers partner and got off free. I wonder how many differentials that propane wonder has gone through? That was a regular replacement item for me. The only modification to the engine was to hone the cylinders .005" oversize and added Corvette racing valve springs. Regularly wound the engine to 8200 rpms. A local Chevy Dealer wanted to sponsor me to run on the drag straps. I declined.
They wanted to get your fool ass off the streets you old hot rod 🤣 with due respect I'm pushing 63 myself still bending pedals mostly to brace myself drag strip only nowadays but not back in my teens 20s-30s+🤔 don't have to look back except to see if the youngins are ever going to catch up keep it on the drag strip boys it's legal
Wow you mean Ralph Nader Lied, LOL. Love this little video. I'm pretty impressed at how simple the system really was and how effective the Corvair's aerodynamics was. I had a Pontiac 74 Trans Am with a 400cui in it and I only got about 400 hp out of it with some simple mods, so the power coming out of that little engine is just mind boggling. Thanks for sharing suck a cool video. I had a 62 Corvair Monza, wish I still had it, lol. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
@@codyramos3200 As a whole he did, not on small issues though. But yeah Nader lied! th-cam.com/video/NI9Hq0_Mhy0/w-d-xo.html Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
Had 2 early corvairs when young,both low horse below 110 no problems.now have 3 wheel Cushman with corvairs dt out back& handle bar steering,now that's unsafe at any speed, but I still drive it, no crash yet after 50 yrs.
Loved the car and the amazing engineering story behind it. Great that you've held on to it for so many years too, looking forward to maybe a follow up video of it Running..
High school ride was a '65 180hp Corsa convertible w/ '66 Saginaw trans and High Ratio steering box. I believe I bought the first pair of B50-13 T/A Radials ever sold here for the front. G50-14s on back.
I ordered a 69 'vair new with HD suspension quick ratio steering and 140 with posi axle. The intakes were machined and welded 6 individual ports with central manifold mounted with a '62 Olds turbo holding a 2" SU constant velocity carb. Also with a waste gate and water/alcohol injection. Konis on all four, sway bars front & rear, wheels widened to 8"rear with front 6 1/2". With TA60 B's front E's on rear. it out handled everything except Lotus Europas and out accelerated everything but Cobras and Dodge Hemis and big block Vettes. I often filled the tank with 130 octane aviation gas from the local airport that made it just a little faster.
@@richardwaugh2049 Your Corvair sounds like it was a lot of fun. I had a '64 Spyder that I loved, then a '66 Turbo Corsa, which I had even more fun with. I was watching a parking-lot slalom one Sunday and decided, heck, I will enter if it isn't too late. Took the hub-caps off, ran against a 289 high-performance Mustang that had been modified, and beat him by several seconds to win my class. First time I ever ran a slalom. I became friends with the Mustang owner, and one time we both beat a 225 HP 289 Mustang in a drag race. I loved the way the car handled, wish I still owned it.
@@richardwaugh2049thanks, Yes.. interestingly, I had tough time getting. The new. Radials ,for my 1961 GALAXIE Convertible( a large Car), in Spring 1966, even. My , North Webster Indiana *Mechanic,, Steve White , at WHITE’s MOBIL SERVICE STATION(( RIP)@ …. Said a best: four tire switch,as Big in Europe! INTERESTINGLY, ALSO, THEY worked & not to bad handlings,,,, & better Gas mileages…..believe I also got four ,new Shocks Monroe….
The black corvair in the back of the garage kind of looks like my dads old v8 corvair. I grew up around these cars and I absolutely love the look of them. Nice video sir
I remember driving my 66 Corsa in high-school and the faster you went the more stable it got. And that was on 13" tires. I just wished it had had an extra gear. The fuel mileage was great and torque was good for the size engine, I know it could have pulled an overdrive gear if it had had one.
Back in the day I drove mine at 70mph down winding single lane roads in Indiana, that thing simply stuck to the road. You have an amazingly beautiful machine.
I had 1978 Ford Fiesta with Zenith Carburetor, and a similar positive seal Ray Jay Aeromotive turbo on it like the Corvair used, draw through set up though not running on propane, I did use water injection alcohol mixture to keep knocking down above 15psi with the boost gauge in the 20psi + range. Awesome share I had no idea this car existed.
I had a 1965 110 Corvair in high school. In California at the time the CHP would pull you into a safety inspection to see if you had a SMOG device on your car. One day I was pulled into such a inspection. The CHP officer was standing at the front of my car and asked if I had a inside hood release ? The engine was running at the time. I said no sir the engine is in the back. The other CHP officers started laughing. I got out and opened the front to show him no engine. Then we went to the rear and he took one look and said " I guess you have a SMOG device." Off I went with the sticker on the windshield.
Yup, I had a 1965 Monza Coupe. With 110hp when factory fresh😂. I bought it in 1984 and DMV tried to make me get a smog unit for the car. Found an old head Chevy mechanic who sorted it out. Was so glad it still had the gold on black plates. Loved that car!!
My Uncle stuck an Olds Toronado 455 and transaxle in the back of his '66 Corvair Monza. It was a monster! He also put an aluminum Buick 225 into the back of a VW bus. He loved V-8 rear engine conversions.
The 64 and earlier were the ones that Nader went after for not being safe. Those had the swing axle rear suspension. Chevrolet added a rear camber compensator to the 64 models. This helped to prevent the dreaded swing axle bump-steering. The 65 and newer were as stable as any car available at the time, and utilized a rear suspension style similar to the Corvette.. I had a 65 Corsa for a few years, which had the 140hp 4 carb motor. She was a small block killer! Smoked a few big block cars too. It was very quick off the line, the 4 speed was well geared for street racing. I had 13" TA radial tires on it with Gabriel Red Ryder shocks all round. It cornered very well, and was quite fast.
I’m glad you pointed out the difference in the rear suspension that MADE the earlier corvairs unsafe. It’s interesting that the Pontiac Tempest in its early versions also had that swing arm suspension but Nader seemed to leave them alone.
@@joeljenkins2876 Nader also ignored VW, which had swing axle thru 68 in the Bug, and Fastback/Squarebacks IIRC. 67 was the last year for swing axle in the Bus and Pickups. Fiat also had a swing axle on the road in the mid 60s. Nader was out to do a hatchet job on Chevrolet, and he did it but good. Self-aggrandizing IMO.
Great video. I owned a Corvair for a while when I was living in California. It was a fun car to drive. I ended up getting rid of it when the clutch went out. Now that I look back I should have gotten it repaired but I didn't have any way to get to work so I ended up buying a 2 door Datsun 510.
I really enjoyed your video. Your car has the double jointed fully independent rear suspension. Most people don't understand the Corvair history. The early models up until 1963 had a single jointed rear axle with no camber compensator. These were the ones that were unsafe under certain cornering conditions. In 1964 they added a camber compensator. This was a large transversely mounted bar that went across the transaxle and attached to the suspension at the rear hubs and limited the total downward travel of the rear suspension and therefore worked to limit the camber change of the rear suspension. In 1965 the rear suspension was redesigned to a double-jointed rear axle setup that was quite similar to the Corvette rear end. This redesign of the rear suspension basically eliminated the original problem but by that time the name Corvair had become linked to Ralph Nader and his true claims that the early models were unsafe. I owned and drove many Corvairs of all years and was only wary of the early pre '64 models although they were only dangerous under certain conditions. I had a 1964 convertible with the camber compensator that was my daily driver and I only had one instance where it exhibited its nasty side. I was driving about 30 mph or less down a road with houses and driveways. The road was curved to the right, so my suspension was loaded in that direction, and someone backed out of their driveway on my right. I swerved left to avoid them. Now I was in the left lane and there was a car coming towards me, so I turned hard back into my own lane. These moves were all instinctive and forced in the situation, but the combination of a rapid left-right-left maneuver caused the rear axles to work against each other and even though I missed everyone and got back in my lane the car was self- steering to some degree for a short distance till the steering oscillations dampened out. The whole event was over in a matter of seconds and if you tried to recreate the event, you would have needed a professional stunt team with 3 drivers and spilt second timing to simulate the conditions I encountered. So, it was a pretty rare thing, but it did happen. If I had been in an earlier model without the camber compensator, I might have had a different outcome, so I have to admit that even though I really loved the car I did find out that under certain real-world conditions the car could be a handful. That having been said in this situation if I had been driving a car with a solid rear axle, I doubt it would have been nimble enough to miss both the first and second cars. So in that regard the Corvair was able enough to snake through all the twists and turns and get me out of a bad situation without a scratch even if it got a little squirrely doing it. And in the process it may have saved me from either t-boning the guy who backed out in front of me or having a head on collision with the oncoming traffic. Just an interesting real world event that happened to me.
I loved your video i am putting a corvair together for my dad he had a 1965 new he agreed there was no safety issues but i very much enjoyed all the info about the car and engine racing
They did come with an extra fan belt, they tended to break at odd times. Ralph Nader made a fortune picking out the CV as his target. Yes, they would burn in a collision but so would a lot of cars at that time. They tended to leak oil too but that was the engine assembly. When rebuilt by an after market shop they didn't leak. If Chevy would have put some boost into the turbos they would have been a bunch quicker. A good car with a bad rep. We used the engines in sand rails and they really got with the program.
In my entire life I never heard of any Corvair anywhere that burned after a collision. I'm excepting the battered worn neglected Corvairs driven as beaters that had various issues to include fuel leaks in extreme cases... which was typical of ANY 1960s car that hadn't received any maintenance since Johnson was president.
@@johnholzhey8149 To be honest, I never ever saw a Pinto in any of the junkyards in this area that had burned. I got intrigued at all the bad pres that Pintos began getting along the way. Here's what I found out: In order to make a Pinto catch fire in a "low speed rear end collision" the impacting vehicles (4100 lb retired-civil-service Dodge Senecas) had to have sparklers mounted to the bumpers and the impacted Pintos had to have gas tanks filled to the brim and even then the Pintos seldom ever managed to catch fire unless the impacting speed was steadily increased until that "low speed impact" ended up being 40 mph. And even then the Pinto didn't always manage to catch fire. You had to clobber the Hell out of a Pinto to make it catch fire, hard enough to crumple the car and shove the rear axle assembly into the back seat and likely kill the occupants which would make any resulting fire moot. I have several photos of crash-tested Pintos that had the mortal hell knocked out of them, enough to actually warp the car so bad the windshield shattered and they didn't catch fire. I dug through the NHTSA and looked up the stats. It took a while... At last count (that I was able to find) the record for deaths in any Ford products *Specifically caused by Fire and not just impact trauma* appears to be the Panther platform which is the Lincoln Town Car, Crown Vic and Merc Marquis. Latest numbers I could find for deaths from fire (several years ago) was 109. Interestingly, more than a few of these fires involved police officers in Crown Vic cop cars. Next was the first generation Mustang which had the same drop-in fuel tank as the Panther platform cars... latest numbers then was 67. The Pinto? NHTSA's latest at that time, 27. These were the only numbers I could find that were actually stated as having been caused by fires and not the crash itself. Last note: A few years ago, deaths from fires in Mustangs added to the count when a restored early Mustang was stuck from behind, ruptured the fuel tank and splashed gasoline into the passenger compartment which ignited, resulting in a fatality and a lawsuit. Not sure how the suit turned out, couldn't find any more about it.
@@tonyunderwood9678 I don't doubt that a bit understanding the way the safety freaks ran the DOT. It's like the environmentalists rig the tests to give a needed outcome.
@@tonyunderwood9678 The easily punctured pinto tanks were due to one particular bolt piercing the tank. That was corrected. Don't joke about sparklers. Aftermarket halogen headlights ignited MANY fires. Visit some scrap yards and stop playing with paperwork. No offense intended. Cheers 🍻
@@greggbrown0 Ralph Nadar is an American Hero. He saved millions of lives by forcing car companies to improve safety. But then you must be someone that support giant corporations that will kill you for a few extra dollars in profits. The swing arm design of the gen1 corvair was unsafe, same design used in the Triumph Spitfire and VW bug. They all abandoned that bad design.
I remember as a youngster back in the 1960's riding in the back of a neighbor's Corvair Monza model (I think?) on New Jersey's Garden State Parkway going well over 130 MPH. My dad used to own one also but blew out the engine.
Bullshit "well over 130" no way in hell going down hill with the wind at your back could a corvair do well over 130.... corvair monza took half a minute just to get to 60mph hahaha .
A superb project and I love your accurate technical description of the components and their integration into the overall system. Plus, the sardonic description of the original suspension is to die for... I have nothing against Mr. Nader, but the late Corvair was an awesome sports car and a tragic (inappropriate) victim of the initiation of customer safety. RIP Corvair.
@@tvkperformance5968 Yes I heard it loud and clear. My grandfather purchased a Corvair new in 1967 it was the second car I got to drive at 14 years old, my mother was furious. It was a blast to drive.
In1987 I met and interviewed the man who invented the propane carburetor Charlie Wright. 1903 1991 he had a propane-powered supercharged 1939 Mercury that had held several speed records at El Mirage in 1940 and 1941.. he had about a dozen Old Fords all his personal cars the earliest being a 1933 the newest a 61 Lincoln Continental. All were propane-powered. I would love to meet the gentleman that built this Corvair.
enjoyed that presentation, very informative. Always liked the 65 and up body style. Had a couple of friends with them, one was the 68 turbo convertible, loved that car, lusted after that, but went the british car route, tr4, tr6, exe's, and also german, still would like a turbo convertible though. They handled well on the twisted Vt roads where I grew up.
Does anyone know what the car is at 0:59 in the video? Thank you for sharing this history, it is an important archive in the history of the Corvair (I had 3 of them before I had my driver's license).
It is a 1962 Devin C designed and manufactured by Bill Devin. Pete Woods took delivery of the car at the 1962 N.Y. Auto Show where it had been on display. Pete arranged with Chevrolet Engineering to have a prototype, Corvair Spyder turbo engine installed and took it to Colorado and entered it in the Pikes Peak Hill Climb. His run was successful, finishing just behind the Corvettes and proving the turbocharging concept. It is probably the world's first turbocharged sports car. Thank you Grace for your comments and interest. TomKeo
😎😎😎 My dad had the 63 turbo Spider , he traded it in for the new 65 corsa convertible. 4 carbs. He opened it up one day on the Highway and got it up to 125 MPH And he said it was still climbing. Miss the old days. 😒
Fantastic i have owned 14 corvairs over the years starting with a 1964 in England raced any body over there did not get bested very often. then i came to USA 1972 and owned the rest here from 110 hp to turbo charged still have a 140 horse and a turbo charged 180 corsa it is Great car The 64 in England was 110 horse and once you learned how to drive a rear engined car they where fine handling cars and cornered really well on the narrow windy English roads one thing i found when i talked to gararge owners and mechanics here in America they mostly could not believe front tyre pressures needed to be 16 pounds and so when the tyres where aired up to like front engine american cars at 25 pounds they did not handle worth a damm and i think many people got into trouble by airing the tyres up like that. Ralph Nader had no clue. When i lived in S Dakota from 1972 till 1990 Corvairs where popular in Lead and deadwood because they where great cars in the snow in and around the black hills in and around Rapid city. The correct english way to spell tires is tyres!!!!! Ed
Nader was an alarmist and was after the early corvairs. I recall looking at a writeup with photos in class at school. The teacher was showing us how people who aren't auto engineers get so worked up to create recalls. Some of it saves lives, parts and expense to the consumer. But some of it is just adding little this and that's like brackets or heat shields etc. Others correct fuel and electrical, but very few cite suspension. They are memorable when they do.
Tom: I have been a long-time fan of you and this car. I have a '68 that I want to use a chevy 4.3 V6 in along with the lpg draw thru turbo setup. Can you recommend any sources that would be helpful on the induction setup. THANKS
My list of propane equipment suppliers is 40 years old. Nobody ever made LPG kits for Corvairs and I'm only aware of 1 or 2 other Corvairs running on Propane. One of them was in Michigan. I would suggest finding a Propane dealer who might be able to connect you with a fleet operator. One dealer I most recently dealt with is: Jerry Thompson 859-881-0509 nashfuel.com He has an extensive online catalog and is very knowledgeable on Propane fuel systems.
I had my 1965 Plymouth Barracuda with a 225 slant 6 engine up to 105 mph on a country road at 11 pm and I could have gone faster. The stupid things we did as teenagers its amazing I'm still alive at 69.
@@stever4181, does two-up on a Vespa motor scooter, going downhill at 80 mph on the Interstate highway qualify as such? I am equally amazed, at my own 69 years of age.
I love Corvairs. Had 3 as a teenager. FWI the engine is so well engineered that it is a popular aircraft conversion for homebuilts. And one thing that few people know is that GM wasn’t after the VW market they wanted to pound Porsche. And in the early days of SCCA road racing they would spank the Porsches.
Before Porsche introduced the 901 series, the Porsche engineers got busy testing vehicle dynamics with a prototype boxer-6 engine, using a '61 Corvair as a test bed. Scuttlebutt has it that Porsche had copied many design features of the Corvair engine, including its 4 main bearing "split" crankcase. After testing, Porsche engineers decided to go with 7 main bearings on the engine that would go into the new 901 series (911). Before it was over, there were several Corvairs running around Stuttgart. This wasn't the the first time Porsche and Corvairs got together. In the late '50s somebody at GM bought a 1957 Porsche 356 and installed an early test-bed Corvair engine in the car for testing since the Corvair boxer-6 engine had been finalized and "finished" and was ready for production before the actual Corvair automobile design had been finalized. Thus, Corvair's boxer-6 predates Porsche's 901 series boxer-6's by several years. Just thought I'd mention it...
@@tonyunderwood9678 Tony, you're one of maybe two or three people I've come across who were familiar with the Porsche 901 since it's inception. It came out in 1964, when I was a high school student in Ludwigsburg, Germany. My 3rd year mechanical drafting class teacher asked us one day, "Would you guys (and one girl) like to go on a field trip next Thursday?" The kids were kind of "yeah, maybe, where are we going?" Well, we've been invited to go on a tour through the Porsche factory over in Zuffenhausen. Zuffenhausen is just a few miles across town from our high school (for American military/diplomat dependents). You'd have thought someone dropped a bomb in the classroom. It wouldn't have made any more noise than that bunch did. It was probably the main high light of the four years I went to school there. As a teenaged boy, I was just a wee bit obsessive about sports cars. My wife has been quoted saying something to the effect of, "What do you mean WAS???" This was about the best place in the world at that time... at least to me. There were 356s mixed in the plant with the 901 cars at that time. The 356 was just running out of production then as the 901 was coming on line. At the 1964 Paris Auto Show, Peugeot objected to Porsche using the "901" in their model for the new car. A lawsuit resulted due to Peugeot having a trade mark (copyright??) on the "something zero something" number sequence. Porsche lost the lawsuit and the 911 was the result. I've never heard if it was actually a contentious situation or if they just agreed to make the change. There had been something like 80 cars produced by that time so they're very rare. I've only seen one in 58 years. I've never heard any details ever officially discussed.
@@MrGaryGG48 Yep, I'm familiar with the "complaint" from Peugeot, but I didn't know how many actual 901s were produced before the numbers were changed to keep everybody happy. ~80? More than I'd have thought. I had figured (considered?) that the cars already out the door would probably have been recalled and badges changed. ;-) I had a '66 912 which is what got me interested in a bit of Porsche's history, particularly after I'd kept hearing scuttlebutt from the peanut gallery about how Porsche designed the Corvair and its engine when the Corvair boxer-6 predated Porsche's variant. Lots of presumption... As the adage goes, "One eye among the blind is king."
@@tonyunderwood9678 I'm not sure how valid it is but I heard a narrative back in the 70s or 80s that Porsche engineers had studied the Corvair engine before they produced the 2 liter six for the 901. The idea that Porsche got that close to the Chevy guys is suspect but who knows? That was a long time ago and a lot of things were different then. All I know for certain is that two really special cars came out of that period and we all benefited. I guess that's why I've always been fascinated by history. Lots of great stuff to learn from...
Did I miss if you said what the compression ratio is? So there was no change in the gearing, just larger diameter tires and redline rpm to get that speed? My sisters high school boyfriend had a lavender 64 or 65 Corvaire Monza convertible with white interior. I saw all four wheels off the ground breaking over the crest of a hill!
Excellent! What differential ratio does this car have? To attain that type of speed without revving to the moon, it must be pretty tall! I am familiar with the 3:89, the 3:55, and the 3:27, and heard that there was also a 3:08. Is that correct, and is that what is in this speedy ride, or a custom ratio?
Yes, I was using the 3.08 gears. The rear tires provided the gearing I needed--they were 27.5 in. in diameter. I ran the engine to 7500 rpm in the lower gears. The highest reading I saw in 4th gear was 6800. Thanks for your comments.
@@tvkperformance5968 Really great mods. 30 psi... Excellent. Water also expands under high heat, giving uou steam engine torque. I also wanted to set up my Corvsir with propane and turbo. Uour intercooler using cold from propane gad expansion was another thing I wanted to try. It is really chilled. Try also various propylene and propane gas mixes, better than usual propane. Subscribed and hoping for more. Cheers 🍻
@@andykerr3803 Thank you for your comments. I have also thought about using an intercooler to reduce compressor output temperature and at the same time, keep the regulators from freezing. On my street driven turbo Corvair, I have a heat exchanger in the crankcase and I circulate water through it and the pressure converters. This is how I reduce my oil temperature and at the same time, keep the Propane from freezing up. Tom Keosababian
@@tvkperformance5968 I will watch again. I assumed you were cooling the thickened area of the intake tubing... I thought there was an internal sleeve with coolant being warmed. Anyways it was super cool... Pardon the pun. Do research propene and propylene. I had first heard of them only as a rumor of racing engines, possibly Formula One experimenting. Makes sense. Propane is good, but these specific compounds are better. There is even a liquid version ( really liquid, not compressed) made from them also. Cheers. PS You can buy test amounts easily at a welding supply.
Amazing vehicle, by an amazing man. I'm told that his is one of oldest standing records at Bonneville, if not the oldest. Being a strong proponent of propane myself, I was very interested to find out more about this car and particularly how he made it work on an air-cooled engine.
Wow! My dad came home with one of these in early 60's and I remember it was a 4 speed and I heard my father say it was a Monza 140 and the fastest Corvair made. I still remember that car and I am almost 70 years old now.
The issue about the swing axle Corvairs was easily fixed, as were the Beetles. There was a shop book about hotrodding VWs and there were at least 3 methods to compensate/correct the swing axle issue. I used one method to deal with a Triumph Spitfire that was more likely to get goofy than any VW I've ever driven. It was much like the swaybar used in the Corvairs, easily done and cheap!!
None of the tuck-under issues with the rear swing arm design of the Corvair would have any impact with high speed straight line stability and safety on the Salt Flats. Now, use it for a motokhana with multiple hairpins, or a slalom course that rocks the weight transfer side to side and you'll run in to the limits caused by the rear suspension design fairly quickly. The later factory redesigned layout cured the tuck-under nature during cornering, again, cornering isn't used on the Salt... So the later suspension wouldn't have any impact for straight line speed on a perfectly flat surface, but switchbacks on a mountain road, the later ones are good handling cars.
WHY do so many people call the rear suspension of early Corvairs "swing axle"? They are semi trailing arm, NOT swing axle. If Chevy had started building the '65 model initially in 1960 and had a solid water cooled engine they might have done far, far better in the market. But, having said that, transverse engine FWD is simply a better design all around for normal passenger car use. I love driving later Corvairs, but have no real desire to own one and deal with the engine. Boxer engines are wonderful things in some respects, but are expensive to build and can be a pain to service. BTW, as far as styling goes the late Corvair is my choice for the best GM design ever.
Early cars handled fine. Some ran into issues when they had the wrong air pressure in the tires and took corners fast. It used different tire pressures than other common cars, due to the rear engine. It was easy to get wrong pressure into the tires; had to follow door sticker for correct tire pressures. All cars have issues when cornered fast, with wrong tire air pressure. It's noticed at lower speeds too and most correct the issue or like in a newer car, it can tell the driver that the pressure is incorrect.
Good video, Thanx. My first car was a '65 180 Corsa, Great car. Learned good diving habits via the vacuum /boost gauge. A 5speed tranny would have been nice.
Personally I think Ralph Nader was crazy. I drov e a corvair every day for two years and never worried about it. He is also responsible for the demise of wing windows which were great in a rain stormn or to help cool the interior.
this is the second Generation of this car. The first was 1960 to 1964, and Gen two was 1965 to 1969. Gen One had a Swing Axle, Gen Two Independant Suspension. The Gen Two also had a Swaybar and they were just as safe as Porsches the same years. Also, these cars are not for amatuer drivers because their weight ratio is not 50/50 front to back. My only time so far with a rear engined car was a relative's Porsche. (I'm sorry he sold it, but it wasn't mine.) I was at first a master at making it go sideways and spinning until I got used to it.
Great videos you’ve posted Tom! Amazing to see how fast as well as your accomplishments with the car over the years. My dad found you while looking up videos on TH-cam. What is that other car you have in the video? Is that a Devon? If so, what kind of chassis do you have under it? Any videos on that car as well?
Brian, Thanks for your kind comments. The little white car is a 1962 Devin-C, powered by a Corvair turbo . It has a very interesting history and we will be doing a video later this year, (after Bonneville). TomKeo
My dad bought a Devin glass shell back in 67/68 when he was 17 mounted on a German DKW chassis. We don’t know much about the actual body and he bought a tr3 chassis many years ago to try and make work with it. That project stalled years ago, it needs lots of modifications to have the chassis work right under the shell. When did you pick up your Devin. Looking forward to seeing your video when you put it out! Are you in Cali? We live out in VA.
@@briantickell7942 Brian, Bill Devin built several models and also made available a body shell. We call it the Devin 295 because that was the advertised price. You would tell him what kind of chassis you were using and the wheelbase, then he would adjust the tooling so the body would fit your chassis. Devin probably sold thousands of those bodies. I bought my car in 1971 and it was one of the first Devin C's produced. It was factory built using a custom chassis bonded to the body for added stiffness. TomKeo
Very cool cool. I wonder if there's a way to use the cold from the propane evaporating system to help air cool the engine? Like put an evaporator atop The fan.
Your 1965 car had the updated rear suspension with universal joints at both the differential carrier and the wheels. The early designs didn't utilize that and caused the wheels to tuck under and make the car unstable. They got a bad reputation because of the early model's design.
You might want to know that VW used a design very similar to the early Corvairs ( or vice versa) and the bug was waaay less stable than the Corsair. I think Nader went after GM because there were way less Corvairs extant and GM was/is easy pickings. I had a 66 140hp Corsa coupe and as another commenter said it was a killer drag car, especially against the Mustangs of the period. I’m keeping my eye out for a 66 or later coupe or convertible in my price range. I’d own another in a hot second! 😎
Thank you Mr Stafford for your comments. I'm fully aware of the difference between early and late Corvair suspension systems. In the early '60's, I set records at the salt flats in a 1961 Corvair and had no handling issues. I also entered a number of autocross events and did very well. One of the commenters several weeks ago reminded us that early model Corvairs did very well in the Canadian transcontinental winter rallies--finishing first I think in 1961.
@@tvkperformance5968 well it really helped if the person at the wheel knew how to drive properly and understood how the suspension worked. For instance don’t cram on the brakes and close the throttle abruptly when you overcook a turn. Stupid is as stupid does. Present company most definitely excluded. I have always been of the opinion that the Corvair, particularly the 65 and later, got a bad rap from that geek attention seeker Nader! I had a 66 140hp Corsa coupe that handled great. Loved the piece, congrats.😎
@@markvincent5992 have to have a feel for car. Hotrodding friends saab on dirt in late 60s, came in corner too hot & let off ,rear started to come around,had to gas it hard to save it
It's the later model with the axles with two U joints. The original had a swing axle like the VW. That was where the criticism came from. They had a tendency to tuck under on a tight turn.
A great car. I didn't have a problem with my 66 Monza going straight. I had a problem with being able to turn the steering wheel from side to side over 70 mph and still going straight. You needed some weight up front.
I had an brand new 65 Corvair Corsa 140 and hit 120 mph on a straightaway with no handling problems. The only changes I made were replacing the octopus air cleaner with 4 small air cleaners and advanced the timing 3 degrees. I entered a corner at end of the straightaway at 110 mph and started to sense the car starting to oversteer, so I opened her up with all 4 carburetors wide open. The real tires bit the road hard, lifting the front end up giving me neutral steering as if the car was on rails. I came out of the corner at 115 mph. I must admit that it scared me but the car did exactly what it was designed to do. In case you are interested, I used to autocross this Corvair weekly and knew its characteristics like the back of my hand. The car actually became an extention of myself. And yes, this car would exceed 6k rpm in 4th gear.
Back in the early 70's Bud Whitfield built a Corvair motor he used for drag racing in Colorado, I think he really wanted it for Pikes Peak but it had such a radical cam it stumbled around 100hp until 3800rpm then it takes off. I know it was in the 9's in Colorado, being a mile high!
I had a 1965 Corvair Corsa. It had a V8 conversion kit from Crown .I was running a 383 Cev small block w zluminium head as that dynod at 450 hp and 460 ft lbs of torque. With a change in spring rates from stock bilst e in Sportcshocks a relatively small chin spoiler and rear deck spoiler the car was quite stable at 165 mph. Ride height was 1.5 inches lower than stock. The car handled very well once I had completion Z rated tires on it. The whole unsafe BS applied to pre 65 Corvairs that would exhibit tuck under if driv we n stupidly. So fir that matter we old VWs of the er a. And Porsc h es.
I'm sorry but I have to point out a mistake in his commentary. The Olds version was not cancelled after a few months. The JetFire came out in 1962 (as he said) but was continued thru 1963. I have seen these back in 1963 and even owned one about 18 years ago. A 1963 JetFire with turbo.
My first car was a 1964 Black with Red interior Corvair Monza. My dad just told me this car belonged to a friend of his and I was going to buy it for $200.00 in 1974 money. My dad brought it home to our 2 bay garage. He repainted it right there. I have to admit it looked really good after the paint job but I had been talking about how I liked the 2nd generation body style much more. It was a good little car though.It never broke down or left me stranded.I also would rather it had been a 4 speed instead of the old powerglide automatic transmission it came with. I kept it until I ordered my first new car.It was a blue inside and out 1978.😢 Chevy Nova. It was a stripped down model. lt came with a 6 cylinder and automatic transmission,air conditioning, power steering and brakes.I ended up selling the Corvair for $1000.00 when I got my Nova so at least that was not bad!
Think Olds had a turbo passenger car engine back then used water/meth injection. Remember them coming into shops, being asked to remove both. How do the Corvair engines hold up with aftermarket turbo setups? What kind of boost will they tolerate and not go boom?
Since the turbocharged Corvair Spyder was introduced in 1962, there were very few aftermarket Corvair turbo setups available because the factory system was so well designed. Instead of designing an engine for the turbo, Olds used a standard V8 with a turbo bolted on. Oldsmobile had to use the water/methanol injection to control detonation because the engine they used had a 10.5:1 compression ratio and they didn't want to change it. The Olds turbo had a maximum boost of 5 pounds but the Corvair ran about 10 psi without water injection. Many Corvair owners have made modifications and are running over 15 pounds boost. My Clean Air Corvair ran between 25 and 30 pounds boost at Bonneville in 1974. Thanks for your comments.
I did use an intercooler at Bonneville in 1966 but didn't seem to help that much. Since then, I discovered simpler ways to make more horsepower. Thanks for your comment.
I really wish there was a way to find out what make and model of mixers he used on his record motor. They're not a type I can recall ever seeing before. Anyone happen to know?
Hello AHHOLT, I used Impco 425 mixers on the turbo's. Herb Hills, who was CEO of Impco at the time, was very helpful and decided to sponsor me and even let me use his dyno. He was a very kind and generous man. TomKeo
@@tvkperformance5968 Hello TomKeo! I never expected to hear from the man himself, thanks! I can see it now; I wasn't taking into account that they were partly hidden inside the intake elbows. I didn't even consider 425's because the current Impco literature says they need to be vertically mounted. As a matter of fact, I've been trying to come up with an N/A intake system for a different engine using the smaller 125. I emailed Impco tech support about horizontal mounting of mixers bigger than the 55 and they said flat out no, that the springs and diaphragms weren't strong enough to function on their sides and it wouldn't work. Your success says otherwise. Did laying the 425's over give you any kind of problems?
I don't remember what kind of water pump I used, that was 50 years ago. They didn't have 12 volt hot water pumps in those days. More recently, I used a Davies-Craig on my street Corvair from Summit. They work the best for me. TomKeo
I had a '64 turbocharged 150 HP convertible. The turbo had constant problems. Crown made a kit to replace the 4 carbs to one single Holley 4 bbl carb. I drove the car for 7 more years and sold it.
175 in anything Id be a little timid that is covering ground fast! IF I ever did, it would only be at Bonneville. Impressed by the build here! Are there better heads available for these? whats the limit on the stock ones (valves porting etc) Been 148 in my ZR-1 158 in my El Camino...One strong gust of wind from teh side and one rabbit it sunk in anything happens at those speeds Youre done, 0 control. 0-120 asap these days that is it.
Alain, Any engine will produce 15 to 20% less horsepower using Propane instead of gasoline. The reason I switched to propane is that running a turbo with a 'draw-through' carburetor configuration causes uneven fuel distribution from cylinder to cylinder. This is because the compressor wheel acts like a centrifuge, separating the liquid gasoline from the air. With Propane, the fuel is already in a vapor form, so the fuel distribution is very even to all the cylinders. Also, Propane has an octane rating of 100+, so I just ran more boost to bring the power up. Some people (like Ak Miller) preferred to run 'blow-through' systems with the carburetor pressurized by the turbo boost, but that system has problems of its' own because carburetors don't have any way to measure air density. Of course, modern fuel injection systems don't have any of these issues, but 50 years ago, they weren't available.
@@tvkperformance5968 Thanks for the detailed reply. I can appreciate the modern tech behind my 2018 twin-turbo V6 car a little more knowing all of this. Oh, and thanks for the video, too! BTW, I was born in 65, so to think that GM had a functionnal turbocharged boxer engine back in those days is pretty impressive.
@@AlainHubert If you haven't already seen it, there is a second video on my channel titled "Worlds Fastest Corvair at Bonneville". The are some 50 year old movies of the car at the salt.
The Oldsmobile was not a Cutlass, it was a Starfire. It had a 215 all aluminum V-8 with a single turbocharger. The engine was very similar to the Buick 215 but slightly modified.
Incredible Car more Specifically the way you transformed it by using Period Correct parts that are referred to as “off the shelf “ parts and the build being mostly Mechanical without Computerization and all the Electronic Sensors like modern Automobiles
A 1965 Corvair saved my life due to its traction and design. It was New Year's eve, snow & ice mixed, John C. Lodge Freeway in Detroit, 10 pm, a drunk quickly swerved toward my door, forcing me to climb the grassy banks that surrounded the x-way. When I returned to the pavement, he spun out of control in my mirror. Say what you want...I know what happened that night.
The white roadster is a Devin 'C' manufactured by Bill Devin in 1962. It is powered by a prototype Corvair turbo engine installed by GM technicians and was raced successfully at Pikes Peak in July, 1962. I believe it is probably the world's first turbocharged sports car.
I was the proud owner of a 1966 Corvair Monza - bought it stock with 800 original miles in 1968. By then, there were dozens of aftermarket performance products for Corvairs in California, and I made good use for them: I removed the stock carburators, had a Crown ram induction manifold installed with a Holley 4 barrel mounted on top, 3/4 cam, installed Hedman headers with glass-pack mufflers, a Bosch racing ignition coil, dual-point distributor, spring tensioner for the fan belt pulley, opened up the fenders and installed 14" wheels with the new Goodyear radials, and had a fiberglass aero body kit installed with racing/fog lights. I routinely did a "road commute" every 2 weeks from West Los Angeles to San Francisco down the I-5. Several times I would fill up the gas tank, leave from SF or LA sometime between 2:00am - 3:00 am and once I would get on the 1-5, I would turn on my radar detector, and that Corvair would hit 120mph in a short distance. I would drive at that speed for 2- 4 hours heading in the mostly straight with relatively few exits and NO cars on the road - only semi trucks. My time record from San Francisco to West Los Angeles was 4 hours and 28 minutes, and I still had about a 1/2 gallon of 76 Union Plus in the tank . Those were the good ole' days!
God bless this man! I met Tom at the 1990 CORSA Convention in Ontario, CA. Such a warm, humble, down to earth guy. A wonderful ambassador for the Corvair. Thank you Tom for your many contributions and tireless enthusiasm.
Brilliant engineering!!!
We have 3 Corvairs at our hobby shop and despite being a veteran auto technician, still amazed at some of the technology.
Semi serious about looking to buy one. Hopefully a later yr stick car in good shape.
Whats a range these days $$ for a clean driver? Sound presentable but not a show car?
Cool presentation, on an important piece of Corvair history, by the man himself!!!
Tom I greatly appreciate you posting this video. You are legendary amongst Corvair fans! I remember reading an article on you and your car but I had forgotten in ran on propane. In 1970 my father and I rebuilt a 1965 Monza and since he owned a LP Gas bulk plant and had been converting cars, trucks and tractors since 1953 we used propane for the Corvair. Bought a modified 140 from Bill Thomas using a Ieco ram manifold with an Impco 4bbl carb. Mounted 2 aluminum fork lift cylinders in the trunk and ran engine oil in the converter. The power and performance far exceeded our expectations! We went to the inaugural (I think) CORSA convention in Chicago
. My dad had signs made calling the car the Clean Air Vair. It was the 2nd fastest in the slalom and appeared on a local TV news segment during the convention. The response to the car convinced my dad to buy John Fitches' Sprint business and build modified Corvairs we called Sprints and Cavaliers. PS. about a month after the convention the engine developed a knock and when disassembled we discovered it had 13:1 compression. What you said about the capability of the Corvair chassis is dead on. We built a Crown Corv8 with a 450hp 327 that I drove 150 mph at Road America. People don't realize what a great car the Corvair was.
I met your dad at the 1973 CORSA convention in Anaheim, CA. We ended up sitting at the same table at the banquet, (you may have been there). He told me about converting his Corvair to LPG and the Cavalier project and I enjoyed talking to someone who had a lot of experience with Propane conversions.
I vaguely remember that Eric Dahlquist, who was the editor of Motor Trend magazine and the main speaker at the banquet, was interested in buying a Corvair Cavalier from you folks.
Bruce, if you are familiar with the Corvair Forum, look me up and send me a PM. I've got some photos I'd like to share with you.
Tom
@@tvkperformance5968 Tom I joined Corvair Forum this morning. Still trying to figure out how to find you on it! lol
Bruce, On the Corvair Forum, go to the Forum list---then select "search"-- then do a search on "tomkeo".
At least one of my postings should come up, then you can send me a PM.
Tom
@@tvkperformance5968 Tom, I just did tomkeo, I have done TVK Performance and Tom Keosababian. Your full name yielded 9 responses but it was people mentioning you.
@@bruceherschberger1871 Bruce, Here's the steps to follow: You said you had joined the Corvair Forum so go to then select then in the "Go to" bar select search. In the search mode, type in . You should then see a number of postings from me on various subjects, click on any of them (make sure it's from me) and scroll down to the end of the dialogs and you should see a response box. If you signed in, your name should be listed so go ahead and select and message me and send it. (Be sure to include your email address.) The private message will not be posted anywhere except to me. This should work. Tom
Tom, you are my Corvair hero. Just awesome what you have accomplished w/ your Corvair, debunking all of the various myths that have followed the Corvair since Nader's publication hit the stands. My mother Rallye raced her turbocharged '64 like no other and loved her Vair. I'm currently working on a '65 converible that I'm converting from 4-speed to automatic, as I'm a wheelchair user. Thanks for the motivation to get working on it again . I'd gotten really discouraged after a shouler replacement surgery.
Thanks for your kind words. Years ago I built a turbo engine and put a PG trans on it. It was a ball to drive. I'm sure you will have just as much fun driving your convertible.
Tom
Same with the " PINTO " it was the runabout model with the problem and yet all models & all pintos painted badly, how ever as time passes how good ( actually great) these cars are
Since you're dealing with some body work but you're a Corvair fan and open to myth busting, I'll just suggest you look into a carnivore diet. It's like turbocharging your body. Look up Dante Ferrigno & others. Best of luck.
When I saw your engine, I immediately went and got my book by Bill Fisher, "How to Hot Rod Corvairs", because I thought your engine did not look like the one in the book. I was right, but wrong. The book's picture showed a stock looking turbo with a 2 bbl carb, and intercooler. But then it said that you went 134 mph in 1966, which is still impressive. Back in the early 90's I built a turbo Corvair engine with the E-flow turbo, smaller A/R turbine housing, Porsche K-Jetronic F.I. and put it in a VW Karmann-Ghia. THAT was a fun car! Cool video, Tom!
Thank you for posting the excellent explanation to the non-corvair motor heads. A 1963 vair with eighteen miles on it straight from the Chevrolet dealership competed in the famous Canadian winter RALLY. The stock vair won every stage ! Nuff said.
In 1967 I purchased a turbo powered Cutlass. The previous owner had ended up taking the vehicle to Ak Millers garage in Santa Fe Springs Ca. Ak was the premier shop (actually the only shop) that knew about turbos. He installed his own water injection system, a Corvair vacuum advance for the distributor and vacuum pressure gauge from a surplus store that originally was used in a WW2 aircraft and at least 3 other modifications. He is absolutely correct if the previous owner had not spent the money to fix several factory defects there’s no way I could have put over 70K on the car. Great vid!
Was that with the little aluminum V8?
Cool.
@@andykerr3803 It was a 215, Buick had a 215 aluminum V8 that Pontiac shared. The Olds was slightly different.
@@supersami7748 GM was strange. Seems they were heavily influenced by the steel industry, they still bash aluminum ( literally) when their competitors use it. That V8 was sold to Leyland motors, it was used in many specialty vehicles, but was the main motor in the Rover for a good stretch.
Fun to rebuild a classic Olds or Buick with modern upgrades.
Cheers 🍻
@@andykerr3803 went on to power all the land Rover SUVs you see on the street now
@@supersami7748Oldsmobile 215s used their own cylinder head design.
I've been playing with Corvairs for almost a half-century now. Currently have about eight (maybe nine, I'd have to go count) in the fleet, and a couple tons of parts. It keeps me off the streets... ;-) None of the so-called handling defects of the '60-'63 models ever gave me any trouble, and my favorite regularly driven Corvair is a '60 4-door, supposedly the worst of the crop if you believe the armchair "mechanics". I also have late models in the fleet, plenty of respect for the entire Corvair lineup.
List your corvairs.
How many 1965 to 1969?
@@albundy8052 Two '65 models, both ragtops, one a Monza and the other a Corsa which has suffered from the metal mites because of some less-than-well-done bodywork that happened before I got the car as a derelict, then refurbished it, drove it for years, even had its photo appear in an issue of the Corsa Communique (many years ago) but the rust has gotten pretty bad. :-) There's a '66 Monza ragtop project that we just gave to my daughter who has decided she wants in on the "Corvair resto-thing". There's two 69 Monzas, one was involved in an accident that badly damaged the car to the point of turning it into a parts car, some girl ran a stop sign and t-boned it HARD, enough to leave me bleeding and the car bent sufficiently to shatter the backlight glass. Still have it but it's being slowly parted out. The other '69 is in storage, local car, never lived anywhere else but here in town, needs paint. It's time is coming. There's a '67 500 coupe that is pending a sale. A '68 coupe with a holed piston (likely gonna put the bashed and battered '69 car's engine it it), and two '60 models, one a 4-door I've had since 1984 and is original/unrestored and was worn when I bought it so you can guess what it looks like now but it's a good runner and it still has solid bones... a '63 Spyder ragtop and a '62 Monza ragtop... and a '60 Monza coupe in storage. And a Lakewood wagon also stored. I guess I miscounted the first time... ha!
@@tonyunderwood9678
Thanks
@@tonyunderwood9678
Love the corvairs.
The station wagon are rare.
The convertibles are rare.
My first love 1969 corvair.
Does your '60 model have the gasoline-fueled heater? Unique in the history of OEM American cars I believe.
Thanks for sharing...
Very cool car...
Had a few friends who owned the Corvair back when we were in highschool.
Great running and riding car's.
I ran across an ad for a Paxton supercharger kit for my Corvair. If I recall it cost $300 at the time, being single with money to burn I was all in. I had to do a modification on the rear engine mount to attach the blower drive pulley, among other things. The blower was mounted where the spare tire was located. The blower rotation was opposite to the engine rotation, so the drive belt was positioned in a figure eight to match each rotational requirement. What a blast. One night at 2am on a lonely stretch of I-94 I put the pedal to the medal. Of course I had no idea how fast I was going, I had gone way past the end of the speedometer and had it pegged. I noticed a pair of headlights far to the rear. I was approaching the Detroit city limits so I slowed down. Soon the police flashing lights on the car behind me made me pull over. The officer said he was going 135 mph and I was pulling away from him! Lucky for me I happened to know the officers partner and got off free. I wonder how many differentials that propane wonder has gone through? That was a regular replacement item for me. The only modification to the engine was to hone the cylinders .005" oversize and added Corvette racing valve springs. Regularly wound the engine to 8200 rpms. A local Chevy Dealer wanted to sponsor me to run on the drag straps. I declined.
They wanted to get your fool ass off the streets you old hot rod 🤣 with due respect I'm pushing 63 myself still bending pedals mostly to brace myself drag strip only nowadays but not back in my teens 20s-30s+🤔 don't have to look back except to see if the youngins are ever going to catch up keep it on the drag strip boys it's legal
Wow you mean Ralph Nader Lied, LOL. Love this little video. I'm pretty impressed at how simple the system really was and how effective the Corvair's aerodynamics was. I had a Pontiac 74 Trans Am with a 400cui in it and I only got about 400 hp out of it with some simple mods, so the power coming out of that little engine is just mind boggling. Thanks for sharing suck a cool video. I had a 62 Corvair Monza, wish I still had it, lol. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
Nader didn't lie.. the earlier models had issue later models I don't think suffered from the same handling issues.
@@codyramos3200 As a whole he did, not on small issues though. But yeah Nader lied! th-cam.com/video/NI9Hq0_Mhy0/w-d-xo.html Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
Had 2 early corvairs when young,both low horse below 110 no problems.now have 3 wheel Cushman with corvairs dt out back& handle bar steering,now that's unsafe at any speed, but I still drive it, no crash yet after 50 yrs.
Loved the car and the amazing engineering story behind it.
Great that you've held on to it for so many years too, looking forward to maybe a follow up video of it Running..
High school ride was a '65 180hp Corsa convertible w/ '66 Saginaw trans and High Ratio steering box.
I believe I bought the first pair of B50-13 T/A Radials ever sold here for the front. G50-14s on back.
I ordered a 69 'vair new with HD suspension quick ratio steering and 140 with posi axle. The intakes were machined and welded 6 individual ports with central manifold mounted with a '62 Olds turbo holding a 2" SU constant velocity carb. Also with a waste gate and water/alcohol injection. Konis on all four, sway bars front & rear, wheels widened to 8"rear with front 6 1/2". With TA60 B's front E's on rear. it out handled everything except Lotus Europas and out accelerated everything but Cobras and Dodge Hemis and big block Vettes. I often filled the tank with 130 octane aviation gas from the local airport that made it just a little faster.
@@richardwaugh2049 I call bullshit. Can you guess the fault in your lie ?
@@richardwaugh2049 Your Corvair sounds like it was a lot of fun. I had a '64 Spyder that I loved, then a '66 Turbo Corsa, which I had even more fun with. I was watching a parking-lot slalom one Sunday and decided, heck, I will enter if it isn't too late. Took the hub-caps off, ran against a 289 high-performance Mustang that had been modified, and beat him by several seconds to win my class. First time I ever ran a slalom. I became friends with the Mustang owner, and one time we both beat a 225 HP 289 Mustang in a drag race. I loved the way the car handled, wish I still owned it.
@@richardwaugh2049thanks, Yes.. interestingly, I had tough time getting. The new. Radials ,for my 1961 GALAXIE Convertible( a large Car), in Spring 1966, even. My , North Webster Indiana *Mechanic,, Steve White , at WHITE’s MOBIL SERVICE STATION(( RIP)@ …. Said a best: four tire switch,as Big in Europe! INTERESTINGLY, ALSO, THEY worked & not to bad handlings,,,, & better Gas mileages…..believe I also got four ,new Shocks Monroe….
The black corvair in the back of the garage kind of looks like my dads old v8 corvair. I grew up around these cars and I absolutely love the look of them. Nice video sir
I remember driving my 66 Corsa in high-school and the faster you went the more stable it got. And that was on 13" tires. I just wished it had had an extra gear. The fuel mileage was great and torque was good for the size engine, I know it could have pulled an overdrive gear if it had had one.
Back in the day I drove mine at 70mph down winding single lane roads in Indiana, that thing simply stuck to the road.
You have an amazingly beautiful machine.
I had 1978 Ford Fiesta with Zenith Carburetor, and a similar positive seal Ray Jay Aeromotive turbo on it like the Corvair used, draw through set up though not running on propane, I did use water injection alcohol mixture to keep knocking down above 15psi with the boost gauge in the 20psi + range. Awesome share I had no idea this car existed.
I had a 1965 110 Corvair in high school. In California at the time the CHP would pull you into a safety inspection to see if you had a SMOG device on your car. One day I was pulled into such a inspection. The CHP officer was standing at the front of my car and asked if I had a inside hood release ? The engine was running at the time. I said no sir the engine is in the back. The other CHP officers started laughing. I got out and opened the front to show him no engine. Then we went to the rear and he took one look and said " I guess you have a SMOG device." Off I went with the sticker on the windshield.
cool story bro
Yup, I had a 1965 Monza Coupe. With 110hp when factory fresh😂. I bought it in 1984 and DMV tried to make me get a smog unit for the car. Found an old head Chevy mechanic who sorted it out. Was so glad it still had the gold on black plates. Loved that car!!
When I was a kid. I worked at Cal's Corvair Service in Garden Grove rebuilding them. I owned a 63' Monza Spyder and a Greenbrier.
My Uncle stuck an Olds Toronado 455 and transaxle in the back of his '66 Corvair Monza. It was a monster! He also put an aluminum Buick 225 into the back of a VW bus. He loved V-8 rear engine conversions.
The 64 and earlier were the ones that Nader went after for not being safe. Those had the swing axle rear suspension. Chevrolet added a rear camber compensator to the 64 models. This helped to prevent the dreaded swing axle bump-steering.
The 65 and newer were as stable as any car available at the time, and utilized a rear suspension style similar to the Corvette.. I had a 65 Corsa for a few years, which had the 140hp 4 carb motor. She was a small block killer! Smoked a few big block cars too. It was very quick off the line, the 4 speed was well geared for street racing. I had 13" TA radial tires on it with Gabriel Red Ryder shocks all round. It cornered very well, and was quite fast.
I’m glad you pointed out the difference in the rear suspension that MADE the earlier corvairs unsafe. It’s interesting that the Pontiac Tempest in its early versions also had that swing arm suspension but Nader seemed to leave them alone.
@@joeljenkins2876 Nader also ignored VW, which had swing axle thru 68 in the Bug, and Fastback/Squarebacks IIRC. 67 was the last year for swing axle in the Bus and Pickups. Fiat also had a swing axle on the road in the mid 60s. Nader was out to do a hatchet job on Chevrolet, and he did it but good. Self-aggrandizing IMO.
@@kens.213 Why did he dislike them so much? Did he have a bad experience or something?
@@joeljenkins2876 I think he knew it was one way to make a claim to fame.
The 1964 Corvairs and later had the upgraded suspension.
Great video. I owned a Corvair for a while when I was living in California. It was a fun car to drive. I ended up getting rid of it when the clutch went out. Now that I look back I should have gotten it repaired but I didn't have any way to get to work so I ended up buying a 2 door Datsun 510.
I really enjoyed your video. Your car has the double jointed fully independent rear suspension. Most people don't understand the Corvair history. The early models up until 1963 had a single jointed rear axle with no camber compensator. These were the ones that were unsafe under certain cornering conditions. In 1964 they added a camber compensator. This was a large transversely mounted bar that went across the transaxle and attached to the suspension at the rear hubs and limited the total downward travel of the rear suspension and therefore worked to limit the camber change of the rear suspension. In 1965 the rear suspension was redesigned to a double-jointed rear axle setup that was quite similar to the Corvette rear end. This redesign of the rear suspension basically eliminated the original problem but by that time the name Corvair had become linked to Ralph Nader and his true claims that the early models were unsafe. I owned and drove many Corvairs of all years and was only wary of the early pre '64 models although they were only dangerous under certain conditions. I had a 1964 convertible with the camber compensator that was my daily driver and I only had one instance where it exhibited its nasty side. I was driving about 30 mph or less down a road with houses and driveways. The road was curved to the right, so my suspension was loaded in that direction, and someone backed out of their driveway on my right. I swerved left to avoid them. Now I was in the left lane and there was a car coming towards me, so I turned hard back into my own lane. These moves were all instinctive and forced in the situation, but the combination of a rapid left-right-left maneuver caused the rear axles to work against each other and even though I missed everyone and got back in my lane the car was self- steering to some degree for a short distance till the steering oscillations dampened out. The whole event was over in a matter of seconds and if you tried to recreate the event, you would have needed a professional stunt team with 3 drivers and spilt second timing to simulate the conditions I encountered. So, it was a pretty rare thing, but it did happen. If I had been in an earlier model without the camber compensator, I might have had a different outcome, so I have to admit that even though I really loved the car I did find out that under certain real-world conditions the car could be a handful. That having been said in this situation if I had been driving a car with a solid rear axle, I doubt it would have been nimble enough to miss both the first and second cars. So in that regard the Corvair was able enough to snake through all the twists and turns and get me out of a bad situation without a scratch even if it got a little squirrely doing it. And in the process it may have saved me from either t-boning the guy who backed out in front of me or having a head on collision with the oncoming traffic. Just an interesting real world event that happened to me.
I loved your video i am putting a corvair together for my dad he had a 1965 new he agreed there was no safety issues but i very much enjoyed all the info about the car and engine racing
They did come with an extra fan belt, they tended to break at odd times. Ralph Nader made a fortune picking out the CV as his target. Yes, they would burn in a collision but so would a lot of cars at that time. They tended to leak oil too but that was the engine assembly. When rebuilt by an after market shop they didn't leak. If Chevy would have put some boost into the turbos they would have been a bunch quicker. A good car with a bad rep. We used the engines in sand rails and they really got with the program.
In my entire life I never heard of any Corvair anywhere that burned after a collision. I'm excepting the battered worn neglected Corvairs driven as beaters that had various issues to include fuel leaks in extreme cases... which was typical of ANY 1960s car that hadn't received any maintenance since Johnson was president.
Don't confuse the Corvair with the Ford Pinto.
@@johnholzhey8149
To be honest, I never ever saw a Pinto in any of the junkyards in this area that had burned. I got intrigued at all the bad pres that Pintos began getting along the way. Here's what I found out:
In order to make a Pinto catch fire in a "low speed rear end collision" the impacting vehicles (4100 lb retired-civil-service Dodge Senecas) had to have sparklers mounted to the bumpers and the impacted Pintos had to have gas tanks filled to the brim and even then the Pintos seldom ever managed to catch fire unless the impacting speed was steadily increased until that "low speed impact" ended up being 40 mph. And even then the Pinto didn't always manage to catch fire. You had to clobber the Hell out of a Pinto to make it catch fire, hard enough to crumple the car and shove the rear axle assembly into the back seat and likely kill the occupants which would make any resulting fire moot. I have several photos of crash-tested Pintos that had the mortal hell knocked out of them, enough to actually warp the car so bad the windshield shattered and they didn't catch fire.
I dug through the NHTSA and looked up the stats. It took a while... At last count (that I was able to find) the record for deaths in any Ford products *Specifically caused by Fire and not just impact trauma* appears to be the Panther platform which is the Lincoln Town Car, Crown Vic and Merc Marquis. Latest numbers I could find for deaths from fire (several years ago) was 109. Interestingly, more than a few of these fires involved police officers in Crown Vic cop cars. Next was the first generation Mustang which had the same drop-in fuel tank as the Panther platform cars... latest numbers then was 67. The Pinto? NHTSA's latest at that time, 27. These were the only numbers I could find that were actually stated as having been caused by fires and not the crash itself. Last note: A few years ago, deaths from fires in Mustangs added to the count when a restored early Mustang was stuck from behind, ruptured the fuel tank and splashed gasoline into the passenger compartment which ignited, resulting in a fatality and a lawsuit. Not sure how the suit turned out, couldn't find any more about it.
@@tonyunderwood9678 I don't doubt that a bit understanding the way the safety freaks ran the DOT. It's like the environmentalists rig the tests to give a needed outcome.
@@tonyunderwood9678 The easily punctured pinto tanks were due to one particular bolt piercing the tank. That was corrected. Don't joke about sparklers. Aftermarket halogen headlights ignited MANY fires. Visit some scrap yards and stop playing with paperwork. No offense intended.
Cheers 🍻
Take that, Ralph Nader!!
Ralph Nader was full of sh%# 😂
@@greggbrown0 Ralph Nadar is an American Hero. He saved millions of lives by forcing car companies to improve safety. But then you must be someone that support giant corporations that will kill you for a few extra dollars in profits. The swing arm design of the gen1 corvair was unsafe, same design used in the Triumph Spitfire and VW bug. They all abandoned that bad design.
I remember as a youngster back in the 1960's riding in the back of a neighbor's Corvair Monza model (I think?) on New Jersey's Garden State Parkway going well over 130 MPH. My dad used to own one also but blew out the engine.
My friends Older brother had a Black Corvair “Monza Spider”! In the mid 60’s. It was really fast.
Bullshit "well over 130" no way in hell going down hill with the wind at your back could a corvair do well over 130.... corvair monza took half a minute just to get to 60mph hahaha .
@@codyramos3200 Well, there's always at least one Internet Troll willing to prove his ignorance to the the world. Congrats!
A superb project and I love your accurate technical description of the components and their integration into the overall system. Plus, the sardonic description of the original suspension is to die for... I have nothing against Mr. Nader, but the late Corvair was an awesome sports car and a tragic (inappropriate) victim of the initiation of customer safety. RIP Corvair.
You Sir, are an absolute Treasure! Thank you for telling this story.
Thank you!! Did you catch my message to Ralph Nader at the end?
@@tvkperformance5968 Yes I heard it loud and clear. My grandfather purchased a Corvair new in 1967 it was the second car I got to drive at
14 years old, my mother was furious. It was a blast to drive.
Awesome video. I’m definitely a Corsair fan.
What a fantastic car and story, thank you so much for sharing this with us.
You should have taken Nader for a rede !! Really interesting video! Thanks!
I really enjoyed watching this video. Thank you sir.
In1987 I met and interviewed the man who invented the propane carburetor Charlie Wright. 1903 1991 he had a propane-powered supercharged 1939 Mercury that had held several speed records at El Mirage in 1940 and 1941.. he had about a dozen Old Fords all his personal cars the earliest being a 1933 the newest a 61 Lincoln Continental. All were propane-powered. I would love to meet the gentleman that built this Corvair.
enjoyed that presentation, very informative. Always liked the 65 and up body style. Had a couple of friends with them, one was the 68 turbo convertible, loved that car, lusted after that, but went the british car route, tr4, tr6, exe's, and also german, still would like a turbo convertible though. They handled well
on the twisted Vt roads where I grew up.
Does anyone know what the car is at 0:59 in the video? Thank you for sharing this history, it is an important archive in the history of the Corvair (I had 3 of them before I had my driver's license).
It is a 1962 Devin C designed and manufactured by Bill Devin. Pete Woods took delivery of the car at the 1962 N.Y. Auto Show where it had been on display. Pete arranged with Chevrolet Engineering to have a prototype, Corvair Spyder turbo engine installed and took it to Colorado and entered it in the Pikes Peak Hill Climb. His run was successful, finishing just behind the Corvettes and proving the turbocharging concept. It is probably the world's first turbocharged sports car.
Thank you Grace for your comments and interest.
TomKeo
😎😎😎
My dad had the 63 turbo Spider , he traded it in for the new 65 corsa convertible. 4 carbs.
He opened it up one day on the Highway and got it up to 125 MPH
And he said it was still climbing.
Miss the old days.
😒
Fantastic i have owned 14 corvairs over the years starting with a 1964 in England raced any body over there did not get bested very often. then i came to USA 1972 and owned the rest here from 110 hp to turbo charged still have a 140 horse and a turbo charged 180 corsa it is Great car The 64 in England was 110 horse and once you learned how to drive a rear engined car they where fine handling cars and cornered really well on the narrow windy English roads one thing i found when i talked to gararge owners and mechanics here in America they mostly could not believe front tyre pressures needed to be 16 pounds and so when the tyres where aired up to like front engine american cars at 25 pounds they did not handle worth a damm and i think many people got into trouble by airing the tyres up like that. Ralph Nader had no clue. When i lived in S Dakota from 1972 till 1990 Corvairs where popular in Lead and deadwood because they where great cars in the snow in and around the black hills in and around Rapid city. The correct english way to spell tires is tyres!!!!! Ed
Nice build, it's amazing the parts that were available back in the 60's.
Great episode thank you
Nader was an alarmist and was after the early corvairs. I recall looking at a writeup with photos in class at school.
The teacher was showing us how people who aren't auto engineers get so worked up to create recalls. Some of it saves lives, parts and expense to the consumer. But some of it is just adding little this and that's like brackets or heat shields etc. Others correct fuel and electrical, but very few cite suspension. They are memorable when they do.
The Corvair made his career. The guy was a BSer.
I can't use the words I'd like to use to describe what I think of Ralph Nader in polite company. They might even get me banned from facebook.
Tom:
I have been a long-time fan of you and this car. I have a '68 that I want to use a chevy 4.3 V6 in along with the lpg draw thru turbo setup. Can you recommend any sources that would be helpful on the induction setup. THANKS
My list of propane equipment suppliers is 40 years old. Nobody ever made LPG kits for Corvairs and I'm only aware of 1 or 2 other Corvairs running on Propane. One of them was in Michigan. I would suggest finding a Propane dealer who might be able to connect you with a fleet operator. One dealer I most recently dealt with is:
Jerry Thompson
859-881-0509
nashfuel.com
He has an extensive online catalog and is very knowledgeable on Propane fuel systems.
@@tvkperformance5968 Forgive the delayed "Thank You", but TH-cam didn't send the response on time.
Very impressed. I had my parents '66 Monza coupe (110hp Powerglide) up to 90 once. It was as fast as it could go, but stable.
I had my 1965 Plymouth Barracuda with a 225 slant 6 engine up to 105 mph on a country road at 11 pm and I could have gone faster. The stupid things we did as teenagers its amazing I'm still alive at 69.
@@stever4181 Roger that!
@@stever4181, does two-up on a Vespa motor scooter, going downhill at 80 mph on the Interstate highway qualify as such? I am equally amazed, at my own 69 years of age.
@@leehaelters6182 YA Sure You Betcha! You're Crazy!!! LOL
@@stever4181, that Swedish twang you have. From Minnesota?
Excellent work sir! Thanks for sharing!!!
I love Corvairs. Had 3 as a teenager. FWI the engine is so well engineered that it is a popular aircraft conversion for homebuilts. And one thing that few people know is that GM wasn’t after the VW market they wanted to pound Porsche. And in the early days of SCCA road racing they would spank the Porsches.
Before Porsche introduced the 901 series, the Porsche engineers got busy testing vehicle dynamics with a prototype boxer-6 engine, using a '61 Corvair as a test bed. Scuttlebutt has it that Porsche had copied many design features of the Corvair engine, including its 4 main bearing "split" crankcase. After testing, Porsche engineers decided to go with 7 main bearings on the engine that would go into the new 901 series (911). Before it was over, there were several Corvairs running around Stuttgart. This wasn't the the first time Porsche and Corvairs got together. In the late '50s somebody at GM bought a 1957 Porsche 356 and installed an early test-bed Corvair engine in the car for testing since the Corvair boxer-6 engine had been finalized and "finished" and was ready for production before the actual Corvair automobile design had been finalized. Thus, Corvair's boxer-6 predates Porsche's 901 series boxer-6's by several years. Just thought I'd mention it...
@@tonyunderwood9678 Tony, you're one of maybe two or three people I've come across who were familiar with the Porsche 901 since it's inception. It came out in 1964, when I was a high school student in Ludwigsburg, Germany. My 3rd year mechanical drafting class teacher asked us one day, "Would you guys (and one girl) like to go on a field trip next Thursday?" The kids were kind of "yeah, maybe, where are we going?" Well, we've been invited to go on a tour through the Porsche factory over in Zuffenhausen. Zuffenhausen is just a few miles across town from our high school (for American military/diplomat dependents). You'd have thought someone dropped a bomb in the classroom. It wouldn't have made any more noise than that bunch did.
It was probably the main high light of the four years I went to school there. As a teenaged boy, I was just a wee bit obsessive about sports cars. My wife has been quoted saying something to the effect of, "What do you mean WAS???" This was about the best place in the world at that time... at least to me. There were 356s mixed in the plant with the 901 cars at that time. The 356 was just running out of production then as the 901 was coming on line. At the 1964 Paris Auto Show, Peugeot objected to Porsche using the "901" in their model for the new car. A lawsuit resulted due to Peugeot having a trade mark (copyright??) on the "something zero something" number sequence. Porsche lost the lawsuit and the 911 was the result. I've never heard if it was actually a contentious situation or if they just agreed to make the change. There had been something like 80 cars produced by that time so they're very rare. I've only seen one in 58 years. I've never heard any details ever officially discussed.
@@MrGaryGG48 Yep, I'm familiar with the "complaint" from Peugeot, but I didn't know how many actual 901s were produced before the numbers were changed to keep everybody happy. ~80? More than I'd have thought. I had figured (considered?) that the cars already out the door would probably have been recalled and badges changed. ;-) I had a '66 912 which is what got me interested in a bit of Porsche's history, particularly after I'd kept hearing scuttlebutt from the peanut gallery about how Porsche designed the Corvair and its engine when the Corvair boxer-6 predated Porsche's variant. Lots of presumption... As the adage goes, "One eye among the blind is king."
@@tonyunderwood9678 I'm not sure how valid it is but I heard a narrative back in the 70s or 80s that Porsche engineers had studied the Corvair engine before they produced the 2 liter six for the 901. The idea that Porsche got that close to the Chevy guys is suspect but who knows? That was a long time ago and a lot of things were different then.
All I know for certain is that two really special cars came out of that period and we all benefited. I guess that's why I've always been fascinated by history. Lots of great stuff to learn from...
Came across the Corvair Van the other day.....followed it for about 10 miles. Looked brand new.
Very cool Corvair!
Did I miss if you said what the compression ratio is? So there was no change in the gearing, just larger diameter tires and redline rpm to get that speed?
My sisters high school boyfriend had a lavender 64 or 65 Corvaire Monza convertible with white interior. I saw all four wheels off the ground breaking over the crest of a hill!
I had a 68 Corvair, loved it.
Excellent! What differential ratio does this car have? To attain that type of speed without revving to the moon, it must be pretty tall! I am familiar with the 3:89, the 3:55, and the 3:27, and heard that there was also a 3:08. Is that correct, and is that what is in this speedy ride, or a custom ratio?
Yes, I was using the 3.08 gears. The rear tires provided the gearing I needed--they were 27.5 in. in diameter. I ran the engine to 7500 rpm in the lower gears. The highest reading I saw in 4th gear was 6800. Thanks for your comments.
@@tvkperformance5968 Really great mods.
30 psi... Excellent.
Water also expands under high heat, giving uou steam engine torque. I also wanted to set up my Corvsir with propane and turbo. Uour intercooler using cold from propane gad expansion was another thing I wanted to try. It is really chilled. Try also various propylene and propane gas mixes, better than usual propane. Subscribed and hoping for more.
Cheers 🍻
@@andykerr3803 Thank you for your comments. I have also thought about using an intercooler to reduce compressor output temperature and at the same time, keep the regulators from freezing. On my street driven turbo Corvair, I have a heat exchanger in the crankcase and I circulate water through it and the pressure converters. This is how I reduce my oil temperature and at the same time, keep the Propane from freezing up.
Tom Keosababian
@@tvkperformance5968 I will watch again. I assumed you were cooling the thickened area of the intake tubing... I thought there was an internal sleeve with coolant being warmed. Anyways it was super cool... Pardon the pun. Do research propene and propylene. I had first heard of them only as a rumor of racing engines, possibly Formula One experimenting. Makes sense. Propane is good, but these specific compounds are better. There is even a liquid version ( really liquid, not compressed) made from them also.
Cheers.
PS You can buy test amounts easily at a welding supply.
I’ve always wanted a Yenko Stinger. Great little stealth rocket!
Amazing vehicle, by an amazing man. I'm told that his is one of oldest standing records at Bonneville, if not the oldest. Being a strong proponent of propane myself, I was very interested to find out more about this car and particularly how he made it work on an air-cooled engine.
Wow! My dad came home with one of these in early 60's and I remember it was a 4 speed and I heard my father say it was a Monza 140 and the fastest Corvair made. I still remember that car and I am almost 70 years old now.
The issue about the swing axle Corvairs was easily fixed, as were the Beetles. There was a shop book about hotrodding VWs and there were at least 3 methods to compensate/correct the swing axle issue. I used one method to deal with a Triumph Spitfire that was more likely to get goofy than any VW I've ever driven. It was much like the swaybar used in the Corvairs, easily done and cheap!!
That VW Hottrodding VWs was written by Bill Fisher. He wrote a book on Corvairs too. I used to have the Corvair book, still have the one on VWs.
Those spitfires we're real 🐿️ y in the rear
Is that convertible corvair powered love to see a video on it
Any chance you can do a video on the little roadster in the background?
It's in the works.
None of the tuck-under issues with the rear swing arm design of the Corvair would have any impact with high speed straight line stability and safety on the Salt Flats.
Now, use it for a motokhana with multiple hairpins, or a slalom course that rocks the weight transfer side to side and you'll run in to the limits caused by the rear suspension design fairly quickly.
The later factory redesigned layout cured the tuck-under nature during cornering, again, cornering isn't used on the Salt... So the later suspension wouldn't have any impact for straight line speed on a perfectly flat surface, but switchbacks on a mountain road, the later ones are good handling cars.
Good info. I recall in High School doing a book report on Nader's 'Unsafe at Any Speed.' Now, I just love the Corvair.
WHY do so many people call the rear suspension of early Corvairs "swing axle"? They are semi trailing arm, NOT swing axle. If Chevy had started building the '65 model initially in 1960 and had a solid water cooled engine they might have done far, far better in the market. But, having said that, transverse engine FWD is simply a better design all around for normal passenger car use. I love driving later Corvairs, but have no real desire to own one and deal with the engine. Boxer engines are wonderful things in some respects, but are expensive to build and can be a pain to service.
BTW, as far as styling goes the late Corvair is my choice for the best GM design ever.
Early cars handled fine.
Some ran into issues when they had the wrong air pressure in the tires and took corners fast.
It used different tire pressures than other common cars, due to the rear engine.
It was easy to get wrong pressure into the tires; had to follow door sticker for correct tire pressures.
All cars have issues when cornered fast, with wrong tire air pressure.
It's noticed at lower speeds too and most correct the issue or like in a newer car, it can tell the driver that the pressure is incorrect.
Took the words out of my mouth. Straight line and cornering are different!
@@anvilsvs being able to pull barrels off to replace ,w/o machine work to block is very easy maintenance too me
Genius then . . . Genius now! Bravo!
Good video, Thanx.
My first car was a '65 180 Corsa, Great car. Learned good diving habits via the vacuum /boost gauge. A 5speed tranny would have been nice.
Personally I think Ralph Nader was crazy. I drov e a corvair every day for two years and never worried about it. He is also responsible for the demise of wing windows which were great in a rain stormn or to help cool the interior.
this is the second Generation of this car. The first was 1960 to 1964, and Gen two was 1965 to 1969. Gen One had a Swing Axle, Gen Two Independant Suspension. The Gen Two also had a Swaybar and they were just as safe as Porsches the same years. Also, these cars are not for amatuer drivers because their weight ratio is not 50/50 front to back. My only time so far with a rear engined car was a relative's Porsche. (I'm sorry he sold it, but it wasn't mine.) I was at first a master at making it go sideways and spinning until I got used to it.
Wow! this is something else altogether! I bought my first project car. 64 Monza spider turbo. Needs a TON of work before even trying to start it up...
Great videos you’ve posted Tom!
Amazing to see how fast as well as your accomplishments with the car over the years.
My dad found you while looking up videos on TH-cam. What is that other car you have in the video? Is that a Devon?
If so, what kind of chassis do you have under it?
Any videos on that car as well?
Brian, Thanks for your kind comments. The little white car is a 1962 Devin-C, powered by a Corvair turbo . It has a very interesting history and we will be doing a video later this year, (after Bonneville).
TomKeo
My dad bought a Devin glass shell back in 67/68 when he was 17 mounted on a German DKW chassis.
We don’t know much about the actual body and he bought a tr3 chassis many years ago to try and make work with it. That project stalled years ago, it needs lots of modifications to have the chassis work right under the shell.
When did you pick up your Devin.
Looking forward to seeing your video when you put it out!
Are you in Cali?
We live out in VA.
@@briantickell7942 Brian, Bill Devin built several models and also made available a body shell. We call it the Devin 295 because that was the advertised price. You would tell him what kind of chassis you were using and the wheelbase, then he would adjust the tooling so the body would fit your chassis. Devin probably sold thousands of those bodies. I bought my car in 1971 and it was one of the first Devin C's produced. It was factory built using a custom chassis bonded to the body for added stiffness.
TomKeo
Very nice, any chance you try to go back to run it again.
Thank you for a great video about a great Car !
That was a fantastic video really enjoyed it
Very cool cool. I wonder if there's a way to use the cold from the propane evaporating system to help air cool the engine? Like put an evaporator atop The fan.
As a matter of fact, on my street Corvair, I circulate water from the converter to an oil cooler. Works very nice. Thanks for your comments.
Your 1965 car had the updated rear suspension with universal joints at both the differential carrier and the wheels. The early designs didn't utilize that and caused the wheels to tuck under and make the car unstable. They got a bad reputation because of the early model's design.
And there is a difference driving any car in a straight line vs. any turning.
You might want to know that VW used a design very similar to the early Corvairs ( or vice versa) and the bug was waaay less stable than the Corsair. I think Nader went after GM because there were way less Corvairs extant and GM was/is easy pickings. I had a 66 140hp Corsa coupe and as another commenter said it was a killer drag car, especially against the Mustangs of the period. I’m keeping my eye out for a 66 or later coupe or convertible in my price range. I’d own another in a hot second! 😎
Thank you Mr Stafford for your comments. I'm fully aware of the difference between early and late Corvair suspension systems. In the early '60's, I set records at the salt flats in a 1961 Corvair and had no handling issues. I also entered a number of autocross events and did very well. One of the commenters several weeks ago reminded us that early model Corvairs did very well in the Canadian transcontinental winter rallies--finishing first I think in 1961.
@@tvkperformance5968 well it really helped if the person at the wheel knew how to drive properly and understood how the suspension worked. For instance don’t cram on the brakes and close the throttle abruptly when you overcook a turn. Stupid is as stupid does. Present company most definitely excluded. I have always been of the opinion that the Corvair, particularly the 65 and later, got a bad rap from that geek attention seeker Nader! I had a 66 140hp Corsa coupe that handled great. Loved the piece, congrats.😎
@@markvincent5992 have to have a feel for car. Hotrodding friends saab on dirt in late 60s, came in corner too hot & let off ,rear started to come around,had to gas it hard to save it
It's the later model with the axles with two U joints. The original had a swing axle like the VW. That was where the criticism came from. They had a tendency to tuck under on a tight turn.
A great car. I didn't have a problem with my 66 Monza going straight. I had a problem with being able to turn the steering wheel from side to side over 70 mph and still going straight. You needed some weight up front.
They should've kept the spare tire in the front like they did for '60 models. It helps balance out the weight.
Last time I ran the short course it was bumpy as hell! I had a '61 auto trans and Ansen slots...and a couple of turbos too.
Hanks for sharing .Corsair are obviously rare able American tech . Does anybody kno what the little white roadster is ?
This is great. I grew up with these cars, I always believed these cars would fly!!!
I had an brand new 65 Corvair Corsa 140 and hit 120 mph on a straightaway with no handling problems. The only changes I made were replacing the octopus air cleaner with 4 small air cleaners and advanced the timing 3 degrees. I entered a corner at end of the straightaway at 110 mph and started to sense the car starting to oversteer, so I opened her up with all 4 carburetors wide open. The real tires bit the road hard, lifting the front end up giving me neutral steering as if the car was on rails. I came out of the corner at 115 mph. I must admit that it scared me but the car did exactly what it was designed to do. In case you are interested, I used to autocross this Corvair weekly and knew its characteristics like the back of my hand. The car actually became an extention of myself. And yes, this car would exceed 6k rpm in 4th gear.
Back in the early 70's Bud Whitfield built a Corvair motor he used for drag racing in Colorado, I think he really wanted it for Pikes Peak but it had such a radical cam it stumbled around 100hp until 3800rpm then it takes off. I know it was in the 9's in Colorado, being a mile high!
I had a 1965 Corvair Corsa.
It had a V8 conversion kit from Crown .I was running a 383 Cev small block w zluminium head as that dynod at 450 hp and 460 ft lbs of torque.
With a change in spring rates from stock bilst e in Sportcshocks a relatively small chin spoiler and rear deck spoiler the car was quite stable at 165 mph.
Ride height was 1.5 inches lower than stock.
The car handled very well once I had completion Z rated tires on it.
The whole unsafe BS applied to pre 65 Corvairs that would exhibit tuck under if driv we n stupidly.
So fir that matter we old VWs of the er a.
And Porsc h es.
I'm sorry but I have to point out a mistake in his commentary. The Olds version was not cancelled after a few months. The JetFire came out in 1962 (as he said) but was continued thru 1963. I have seen these back in 1963 and even owned one about 18 years ago. A 1963 JetFire with turbo.
My first car was a 1964 Black with Red interior Corvair Monza. My dad just told me this car belonged to a friend of his and I was going to buy it for $200.00 in 1974 money. My dad brought it home to our 2 bay garage. He repainted it right there.
I have to admit it looked really good after the paint job but I had been talking about how I liked the 2nd generation body style much more.
It was a good little car though.It never broke down or left me stranded.I also would rather it had been a 4 speed instead of the old powerglide automatic transmission it came with.
I kept it until I ordered my first new car.It was a blue inside and out 1978.😢 Chevy Nova. It was a stripped down model. lt came with a 6 cylinder and automatic transmission,air conditioning, power steering and brakes.I ended up selling the Corvair for $1000.00 when I got my Nova so at least that was not bad!
Think Olds had a turbo passenger car engine back then used water/meth injection. Remember them coming into shops, being asked to remove both.
How do the Corvair engines hold up with aftermarket turbo setups? What kind of boost will they tolerate and not go boom?
Since the turbocharged Corvair Spyder was introduced in 1962, there were very few aftermarket Corvair turbo setups available because the factory system was so well designed. Instead of designing an engine for the turbo, Olds used a standard V8 with a turbo bolted on. Oldsmobile had to use the water/methanol injection to control detonation because the engine they used had a 10.5:1 compression ratio and they didn't want to change it.
The Olds turbo had a maximum boost of 5 pounds but the Corvair ran about 10 psi without water injection. Many Corvair owners have made modifications and are running over 15 pounds boost. My Clean Air Corvair ran between 25 and 30 pounds boost at Bonneville in 1974.
Thanks for your comments.
Enjoyed that story. Did I miss it or did you ever experiment with intercoolers for those turbos?
I did use an intercooler at Bonneville in 1966 but didn't seem to help that much. Since then, I discovered simpler ways to make more horsepower. Thanks for your comment.
I really wish there was a way to find out what make and model of mixers he used on his record motor. They're not a type I can recall ever seeing before. Anyone happen to know?
Hello AHHOLT, I used Impco 425 mixers on the turbo's. Herb Hills, who was CEO of Impco at the time, was very helpful and decided to sponsor me and even let me use his dyno.
He was a very kind and generous man.
TomKeo
@@tvkperformance5968 Hello TomKeo! I never expected to hear from the man himself, thanks! I can see it now; I wasn't taking into account that they were partly hidden inside the intake elbows. I didn't even consider 425's because the current Impco literature says they need to be vertically mounted. As a matter of fact, I've been trying to come up with an N/A intake system for a different engine using the smaller 125. I emailed Impco tech support about horizontal mounting of mixers bigger than the 55 and they said flat out no, that the springs and diaphragms weren't strong enough to function on their sides and it wouldn't work. Your success says otherwise. Did laying the 425's over give you any kind of problems?
Genius what a beautiful car.
I'm gonna build my Corvar model kit to represent this car
What make of marine water pump did you use? I'm thinking about building a hot water heater system to heat a VW beetle.
I don't remember what kind of water pump I used, that was 50 years ago. They didn't have 12 volt hot water pumps in those days. More recently, I used a Davies-Craig on my street Corvair from Summit. They work the best for me.
TomKeo
@@tvkperformance5968 Thanks for the reply. I'm sure that any one of these will work for what I have in mind. Thanks again.
My father-in-law (life-long mechanic) said the best car he ever owned was his 64 monsa. Traded it when child four arrived.
I had a '64 turbocharged 150 HP convertible. The turbo had constant problems. Crown made a kit to replace the 4 carbs to one single Holley 4 bbl carb. I drove the car for 7 more years and sold it.
That is so cool. I love the old school enginuity.
Do you have Koni shocks rear wheels toe out a couple degrees
175 in anything Id be a little timid that is covering ground fast!
IF I ever did, it would only be at Bonneville. Impressed by the build here!
Are there better heads available for these? whats the limit on the stock ones (valves porting etc)
Been 148 in my ZR-1 158 in my El Camino...One strong gust of wind from teh side and one rabbit it sunk in anything happens at those speeds
Youre done, 0 control. 0-120 asap these days that is it.
Why use propane instead of high octane fuel? Was there an advantage to using propane (aside from being cleaner for the environment)?
Alain, Any engine will produce 15 to 20% less horsepower using Propane instead of gasoline. The reason I switched to propane is that running a turbo with a 'draw-through' carburetor configuration causes uneven fuel distribution from cylinder to cylinder. This is because the compressor wheel acts like a centrifuge, separating the liquid gasoline from the air. With Propane, the fuel is already in a vapor form, so the fuel distribution is very even to all the cylinders. Also, Propane has an octane rating of 100+, so I just ran more boost to bring the power up.
Some people (like Ak Miller) preferred to run 'blow-through' systems with the carburetor pressurized by the turbo boost, but that system has problems of its' own because carburetors don't have any way to measure air density.
Of course, modern fuel injection systems don't have any of these issues, but 50 years ago, they weren't available.
@@tvkperformance5968
Thanks for the detailed reply. I can appreciate the modern tech behind my 2018 twin-turbo V6 car a little more knowing all of this. Oh, and thanks for the video, too! BTW, I was born in 65, so to think that GM had a functionnal turbocharged boxer engine back in those days is pretty impressive.
@@AlainHubert If you haven't already seen it, there is a second video on my channel titled "Worlds Fastest Corvair at Bonneville". The are some 50 year old movies of the car at the salt.
The Oldsmobile was not a Cutlass, it was a Starfire. It had a 215 all aluminum V-8 with a single turbocharger. The engine was very similar to the Buick 215 but slightly modified.
Nice Corvairs are beautiful Vehicles
Would have been interesting to see you put your propane evaporation through an intercooler
A beautiful machine that hid under the back cover, and strong as an ox.
Incredible Car more Specifically the way you transformed it by using Period Correct parts that are referred to as “off the shelf “ parts and the build being mostly Mechanical without Computerization and all the Electronic Sensors like modern Automobiles
This is a very impressive little car.
A 1965 Corvair saved my life due to its traction and design. It was New Year's eve, snow & ice mixed, John C. Lodge Freeway in Detroit, 10 pm, a drunk quickly swerved toward my door, forcing me to climb the grassy banks that surrounded the x-way. When I returned to the pavement, he spun out of control in my mirror. Say what you want...I know what happened that night.
What is the white convertible in the background?
The white roadster is a Devin 'C' manufactured by Bill Devin in 1962. It is powered by a prototype Corvair turbo engine installed by GM technicians and was raced successfully at Pikes Peak in July, 1962. I believe it is probably the world's first turbocharged sports car.
I love it, setting the record straight!