I owned a 66 turbo corvair coupe and raced a lot of cars in it during my youth. The driver shifted far too early, in the low revs. He should have pulled a 7 second 0-60 all day and smoked the Miata. The 66 Corvair Turbo is 110HP until that turbo kicks and it leaps to 180HP. You also would have heard the turbo whine. One of the best cars I have ever owned.
An 08 Miata has a 0-60 of 7 seconds. Better gearing, better suspension, broad powerband that’s only 15hp down, 6 gears instead of 4, and less fear of breaking it all add up to a good difference in performance. I’m sure if driven without worry the Corsair would be closer and maybe beat the Miata. But, at best it’d be a close race at best.
Yeah those 180 engines aren't pulling full HP until in high rpm range. That run the driver wasn't even engaging the turbo. But the likelihood of braking things goes up if you start really pushing it, so I can see why they really didn't race it...
@@icuinthelight Gen 1: 1960-64. Gen 2: 1965-69. I had a 1965 Corsa convertible with 4 carbs. Wonderful car and for the year, more technologically advanced than the Porsche 911. Just a few inexpensive mods made it handle much better than when it came from the factory.
Nice video... .love the bonus. ...but there was no doubt in my mind that the Miata would take the Corvair. Modern technology. That being said, I'd rather own the Corvair!
No engine shot in the video was blasphemy ... the Corvair was the first production turbo car (1 gen) and is Amazing American technology that was lost to the Pony car revolution and cheap gas. My Corsa 140 will be converted to turbo when I get time ... modern turbo and EFI ... I'll beat the Miata :P
The stock 1966 turbo six had 180 hp. A stock 140 hp Corsa is faster than 18 sec. 1/4 mi. My 3500 lb 91 Camaro with 180hp would run a 17 flat and that was slow. I think the driver was a little scared of hurting the car or something.
I also drove a 66 Corsa 4 carb 140hp(I'm sure it didn't have 140hp by the time I drive it)as my first car in the mid 70's and it was nowhere near the shape this car was in. It would have run better than an 18 sec quarter. It also had the stock 13" tires and wheels on it. That helped the gearing some as I'm sure that this car has 15" wheels and tires. SHOULD HAVE LET JAY LENO DRIVE IT. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believeth in Him shall not parish but have everlasting life. God Bless and stay safe. As Bob Dylan said, "The times they are a changing."
You obviously know Corvairs. With a turbo you need to leave at 4000 RPM and shift at 5500 RPM to get the most power from a Corvair. Hard on the car? Yes, henceforth the above Corvair ran the way it did. It's a museum piece after all.
Yes, and some attempt at having an even start. The launch makes the difference in a drag race. Leave hard as possible with an even start, and if you can't fix a broken clutch, no need to be participating in drag racing at all!
I started to buy a new 67 Corvair, but bought a new 67 SS427 instead. I wish I still had either one of them now. I too love the shape of the 66 & 67 Corvair, but I probably would have had a small block Chevy V8 with rear wheel drive before long.
The Turbo Corsa was very crude, and had no waste gate or intercooler. In most circumstances the 140 HP four carb would outperform a turbo because of it's wider power band.
I was expecting better performance out of the Corsa Corvair. Maybe they should have switched drivers for some races. Nevertheless, given the choice between the two, I'd still choose the Corvair. In part because I'm more fond of the NA & NB Miata's and I've just always liked Corvairs.
I'm surprised that the boosted Corvair got tromped, because it's horsepower and torque numbers we're better. It was, no doubt handicapped by having only four gears, as opposed to the Miata's six.
Michael has a point. Back in the '70's, I owned both '65 and'66 Corvairs. Both had the stock 4 Rochester carburetors on the 140 H.P. engine. At the same time, a friend had a '66 180 H.P. turbo Corsa. Out of the hole, I could leave him way behind. But, once his turbo spooled, up he'd slingshot past me. IMHO, if you wanna race a Miyata in the quarter mile, you'd be better off with the 140 motor and not change gears until peak torque. I've driven a lot of upscale sporty cars, but my 2nd gen Corvairs remain the most fun and best handling ever. I loved everything about them - totally civilized, versatile with indestructible engines. And the Italian designed body was a treat!
Bad driving skills, my 65 140hp Corsa ran 16.0's all day long at OCIR in 1974 when I was in high school with just jetting and distributor work and Piper headers with some actual speed shifting. Ran 18.00 first run weeks after getting my licence and was a blast in the SoCal canyons too.
The shifter coupling bushing at the transaxle must have been shot. Or, the shift bracket on the floor had loose bolts. That shift lever moved much too far for something to not be right. That, and the short-shifting the driver was doing...
They have a short shifter for the car. The link that connects the shifter linkage to the transmission is also famously know for becoming loose and sloppy. In my case, It was almost impossible to get the car into reverse before I replaced it.
My Dad tried to teach me "power shifting" in a 68 Camaro. When it was my turn to drive, I proptly broke the left motor mount and the trans mount and sawed the upper radiator hose in two. Drive it like you stole it.
That 2008 Miata ( MX-5 ) is a great car to learn how to shift a manual transmission. Clutch is very light & its shifter has a relatively short throw into every gear. How do I know ? Well I'm driving the newer updated version a 2016 MX-5 Club soft top. Its about 2340 pounds rated at 155 hp with 148 ft / lbs of torque. A blast to drive !
Evidently, they didn't teach the Corvair driver long enough. Roughly the same weight of cars, but more horsepower and more torque in the Corvair, this should have been a lot closer.!
The driver in the Corvair needed to add boost pressure when taking off. That makes a lot of difference at the track in a turbocharged car or truck. I never really heard the turbo kick in on any of those runs. Also, those long throws in the Corvair shifter certainly add time when compared to the short throw shifter in the Mazda Miata! When driven properly, that Corvair should beat the Miata hands down. You just have to know how to drive a turbocharged car at the track. 😉
It's hard to pre-load the turbo in a manual car, also the Corvair turbo was designed to only make useable boost over 3,000 rpm because it didn't have a waste gate.
@@hoodagooboy5981 Yes, it’s harder to build up boost pressure with a manual transmission, but it can be still be done with a heavier duty racing clutch, racing fly wheel that’s balanced along with a line lock. I have a Buick GN prototype engine in my ‘83 GMC S-15 4wD pickup truck which was the very 1st GN engine swap conversion of it’s type in the US. Turbo magazine even begged me to have them do a feature story on that engine conversion in 1989. However, I never got around to it. At that time, I was getting 20 pounds of boost with no detonation while using Eldebrock Water/Alcohol injection with a couple gallons of Turbo Blue racing fuel added to the tank. I had a T-5 with short throw shifter, adjustable waste gate with a line lock too. My heads were blueprinted and flow tested and matched to my intake. I even had a Turbonetics racing compressor wheel with Stage 3 Kenny Duttwieiler Racing cam with TRW Stainless Steel racing valves too. The GMC Syclone didn’t come out until 1991 so I was two years ahead of that. Currently that truck is in storage. Of course, it helps to know how to drive a turbocharged car, or truck with a manual transmission in a drag race at a drag strip. You have to keep the RPM’s up when launching off of the line.
Learned how to drive a 4-speed at age 15 in my friend's Corvair 140. It ran good but the shifter was kinda mushy. He installed bigger wheels and tires and cranked the rear camber and it cornered great. Car was great fun for us teenagers.
Of course the Miata is faster...the Corvair is 55 years old! Still nothing beats driving a unique and beautiful antique example of American Iron from tbev1960s
@@kurtlamprecht93 Um...it's an idiomatic expression. I've owned Corvairs for many years and am well aware of the Corvair engine. By the way, the cylinders ARE cast iron...
@@370gtalej5 my friend took his last year production 1969 Corvair Convertable and did custom rear suspension modifications using "newer" Corvette suspension. Stays put in his garage so we'll never know what its like...
I’d still at the end of the day rather have the Corvair. I owned one back in the day and loved it. Sorry I ever sold it, especially seeing I bought a Pinto. Ughh.
In 1965 my 1962 102 hp corvair did 19.00 the time I ran it. My 1968 Corvair..140hp did 17.0 something..that broke my dial in time..only two runs. By the way ..no wheel spinhere?
These guys are too scared to rag the cars. Every car's been 1 or 2 seconds slower on the quarter than they are capable of. My 126hp 1965 VW Beetle (still with 1285cc) runs a 15:08 and its not even built for drag racing
If the Corvair had modern mechanicals (tech, engine upgrades, suspension), I'd take the Corvair. It's one of the most beautifully designed cars ever made.
@@Troy_nov1965 yes because the corvair got traction from the go and the hemi spun its tires a ton before getting the traction. Its was an add advertising isky cams. Thr corvair was very well prepared in ALL areas, they told how it was done. But it was true, I got a friend looking up the orgional add for me. I will post this when I get it.
Keep the stick training going the corvair driver needed hands on training on how a turbo spools up to launch more efficient clutch dropping at 700 rpm not much to talk about
If your drivers had to learn stick this is not a fair comparison. Neither car is being used to its full potential. Plus, a 6-speed is of course going to accelerate better than a 4 speed. You should put the Corvair's Powerglide up against the Miata Automatic with your drivers, or use professional racers with stick. And you let the Miata compete *and* flag the start? C'mon. For the record, the Corvair turbo has clocked an under-14 second time at the Salt Flats. Stock.
@@PetersenMuseum The times are recorded in "How to Keep Your Corvair Alive" (c) 1986 by Richard Finch. I was wrong about the stock for under 14 seconds. That time was on a V-8 Corvair Conversion. Stock was 15.6 seconds. Please respond to @playerpage. This is my son's account and I didn't realize I used it to comment.
I really enjoy this. You guys “launch” vehicles without putting any major stress to the drivetrain. I consider this a proper “launch”. Especially when it’s your own vehicle and you know you have to live with it for many years to come. 👍🏻👏🏻 So many people get caught up with what’s on paper. Doing those claimed 3sec or lower launch’s is an incredible amount of shock to the drivetrain. If you don’t have to do maintenance to it, sure, go nuts and destroy clutches and whatever else gets eaten alive with those type of starts. Even the Bugatti does a gentle start and still managed to crush the opposition. 👏🏻
The drivers not only not only had an incredible slow reaction time, but not one race made any attempt to have an even start.. They not only knew nothing about driving a stick shift, but didn't seem to know anything else about drag racing!
Yeah...looked like the old boy was a little conservative with the power that his engine could generate. Need to see it again with a higher shift point.
an old drag racing trick for the corvair was to loosen the fan belt so that when your racing the car would throw the belt off and give you a little more power
Love this. Had a 2007 Grand Touring Miata and now have a 2010 Grand Touring. So much fun to drive and really gets a great start. Only had it up to 100 before shutting down due to light weight and on a road with dips. Can you say going airborne??? lol Still had over 2500rpms to go before redlining.
Yep , the Miata's are a blast to drive especially the soft tops now they have the Retractable Fastback roof as a choice. The 2016 Club I have is so nimble in the corners plus quicker off the line with the LSD & light BBS wheels. For a modern car its easy to work on & do the normal maintenance. I daily drive this car.
I feel like they were being super gentle on the old car and was beating the hell outta the new car. It's easier to fix the new car if they break it and parts are hard to find for the corvair. That's why the outcome was what it was.
@@icuinthelight 🤣🤣🤣🤣... I guess you can call me a kid... seeing as the last corvair produced was 12 years before I was born. Soooooo... ya, that makes them pretty old. Seeing as I'm 42. And, I'm sure there is plenty of them around still. And, sure SOME parts are easily found. But, if they blow up the turbo on that thing or crack a block then they arent exactly going down to the nearest auto zone to get parts for them. Now, are they?!?... I do like corvair monza and corsairs. And, I've always thought the yenko ones were pretty awesome. But, never liked them enough to actually buy one. They're just not my cup of tea. Everyone has their favorite flavor. That's just not mine. Maybe if you were driving that old corvair, you woulda shown that newfangled miata a little backside throttling... huh...??🤣👍👌
@@icuinthelight OK... OK... that was a pretty good run. Looked very modified... and still only ran a 13 sec 1/4 mi.🤣👍. Not saying you can make a miata with a stock engine run much faster... but still, sounded like a wounded donkey and the gear shifts were as notchy as my bedpost. Like I said before, everyone has a flavor... corvair just ain't mine. Not saying they arent an interesting niche in the hobby... cuz, I like the way they look. But, they're not a porsche 930 turbo... or a toyota supra... a 69 dodge charger or even a L79 nova. You have to wring that thing out SUPER hard to make any kind of power. It's just not worth it. Drive them for the fun little classic cars that they are. Nothing more nothing less.
It should be noted that the 180 Corvair Corsa was rated gross, not net like today. Chevy's technical papers on the 180 showed it actually put out 186 hp gross but only 145 net. Conversely the 140 Corsa only put out 110hp by todays standard. The transaxle also had quite a bit of drag as compared to cars today, some say as much as 20% meaning the 180 Corsa was only putting down somewhere in the neighborhood of 115-120whp. While the late model was still only about 2450 lbs, 120 hp is still rather modest.
Corvair, Miata...change drivers 2,out of 3...change drivers again. Don't race the Corvair if you have to baby shift! Put John Force behind the wheel jeez!
In high school, I once drove my grandma's 63 Monza, My aunt had a black 63 Monza Then my dad bought a 66 silver Monza with factory chrome spokes that had those knockoffs. Sharp looking!!!. I took my driver's license test in that. I once drove it in the fast lane of a Los Angeles freeway going 70 mph..kinda spooked me since I was just learning to drive. We would race it against a Ford Econoline pickup of my uncle. Since the Corvair was new, the rings got fried to the cylinder walls. Then I got my own cars. Would like to get a 66 Monza with a 4 speed now..
3:08 "How to drive stick". We call it a manual gear box. Not long ago everyone knew how to drive a manual and if they didn't well you didn't get in with them because they couldn't bloody drive. Todays drivers lack so much skill it's frightening. You had eight cars there, we only saw four in action!
After the “Unsafe at Any Speed”, early model of the Corvair, GM changed the rear suspension and these cars handled and were fun to drive. So after getting it right, GM then Killed Off the Corvair.
Actually, the early suspension was checked out by the Transportation Administration and was found to be just fine. As for the late models, they were designed and on the market before Nader's book ever came out.
My father owned a '66 Corsa convertible. I remember the Corsa as having four 1 bbl carbs and was rated at 140 HP. The turbo was the Spyder and was rated at 180 HP. I own an '18 Miata Club and it is a MUCH better overall car. As it should be 55 yrs of engineering improvements.
The Chevrolet Corvair was the closest thing to the Porsche 911, rear mounted, aluminum air cooled and six cylinder horizontally opposed configuration engine. Dave...
Corvairs don't need leaded gas. They had hardened valve seats from the get go. The 140 engines have interesting valves and were known to drop a seat from time to time.
Your Corvair Corsa times are weak. My 1965 Corvair Corsa powered with a stock 140 horsepower( 4 one barrel carbs) and 4 speed consistently ran mid to high 16 second quarter mile runs at our local drag strip back in the early 1970's.
The corsair corsa had the best instrument panel out there. Big 140mph speedometer ,big tach with cylinder temp gauge, pressure gage and two more. Sound was fantastic also.Not a fair fight. 1960s tech vs 1990.
Like a lot of boomers, I’ve owned both… and both were convertibles. A 62 Corvair Monza , 4 speed, and a 2002 Miata, also 4 spd. Lots of fun with two little ragtops.. 40 years apart. oh, and there was a 67 Camaro SS 4spd convertible in between.😊. Another crazy fact, none had power tops.
I owned a 65 turbo, and I both road raced (closed course) and drag raced it. I only took it to the strip once and it did 104 mph in 14.0 seconds. I was abusive on the start to compensate for turbo lag. I floored the throttle with the yellow and dropped the clutch on green. I eliminated a 283 Chevy II and a 350 El Camino before being eliminated by a studebaker lark (R3 Avanti engine). I saw a 64 with an automatic turn high 12 second because he could get full boost on the line. At club events I could beat everything in my class including porches and solid axle corvettes. In 1965 porches did not have the power, and the Corsa had four wheel independent suspension. Research Corvair racing history for yourself. The corsa should have been behind at the start, but zoom-zoomed past the Mazda well before the finish. Even with an easy start the Corvair should have run a 15.0 1/4 if shifted at redline. Nuff Said
When I was a kid, our family had two corsairs, one a blue stripper with the weird dash shifter, and one a white Monza Spyder (?) Becayse the old man always bought Buicks and Oldsmobiles, I though this is weird. Anyway, they were the first cars I ever drove, I remember putting it half in an excavation for a sewer line that had been dug in the middle of our street, both right side wheels in the ditch. I think my brother got a couple of friends and we just shoved it out and we never spoke of it again.
The problem for the Corvair is how the turbo is setup. It uses a pretty large turbo for the engine and uses plain bearings inside the turbo charger. That means it takes forever and a day for it to spool up. Also, you are guaranteed to destroy the motor if you keep the turbo up for too long. This is 60's technology we're talking about here. A better comparison would have been the 140HP Corvair since it doesn't need nearly as long to reach peek power.
I wonder if they told Tim Allen they were going to drag race his car? Loaning a car for display is one thing. Loaning it for them to wail on it is another.
The Corvair was a car way ahead of its time and misunderstood. If it had been built after 2010, it would have been successful because today there are elements and additives that required its proper functioning. Especially when it comes to oil leaks.
The torque of an engine is in lb-ft, as in the caption, not ft-lbs, which is twisting torque, as for bolts. The 6-speed in the Miata makes a big difference in performance.
I seriously doubt the Corvair still has 180HP and on top of that is the fact that before 1971 car makers rated horsepower for a given engine on a test bench and not at the rear wheels. This is why the 166HP Miata smoked the Corvair.
That was then. The Viton seals didn't show up until later. While the car was out of production, a reseal with Viton solved most of the problem. Chevrolet service was just as terrible back then as it is today.
Had two corvair. Can't believe this. Valves probably need Adjust on corvair. That was critical to performance on corsair. I seriously think . If I had been driving results would have been different. Whoops did I say that!!! It is what it is!😁😆😅🤣
The Corvair turbo models are at a disadvantage in a drag race. The turbo takes forever to build boost. I have owned Corvairs of both types and the naturally aspirated ones do better at the drag strip. I raced stock 1964 Corvair (110 hp motor) and made ET's of 17.75 routinely. That was going through the lights in 3rd gear (out of 4).
I spit my water out when you described the Covair as America's Porsche. That is a true statement only in wet dreams of the most deluded Covair owner. The Covair is an interesting car, a guy who wanted to date my older sister had one and hung with me for awhile well trying to make time with her. The car is fun to ride in (I was in jr. high at the time) but I have owned and driven Porsche's including 912's from that era and there really is no comparison between the two other than they both have rear engines.
And, ladies and gentlemen of the comments section: The car is a CORVAIR, not a Corsair. The model of Corvair which was performance-oriented with either the turbo or the 140hp engine as standard was called CORSA, which is Italian for "racer". A Corsair was originally an ocean-going French pirate vessel, then a couple hundred years later the Navy hung the name on a fighter plane made by Chance-Vaught (F4-U Corsair). Again... it's a CORVAIR, not Corsair. And the factory "hotrod" version was a Corvair CORSA, in '65 and '66. The turbo engine was only available in the CORSA models of Corvair, in '65 and '66. The earlier model Corvairs supplied with turbochargers were all SPYDERS, '62-'64. Just thought I'd mention it. :-) PS: The standard variant of Corvair was called Monza. Monza is a race course in Italy.
I owned a 66 turbo corvair coupe and raced a lot of cars in it during my youth. The driver shifted far too early, in the low revs. He should have pulled a 7 second 0-60 all day and smoked the Miata. The 66 Corvair Turbo is 110HP until that turbo kicks and it leaps to 180HP. You also would have heard the turbo whine.
One of the best cars I have ever owned.
My beloved’66 Corsa was totaled in a terrible accident in October of 1969. My favorite car ever.
An 08 Miata has a 0-60 of 7 seconds. Better gearing, better suspension, broad powerband that’s only 15hp down, 6 gears instead of 4, and less fear of breaking it all add up to a good difference in performance.
I’m sure if driven without worry the Corsair would be closer and maybe beat the Miata. But, at best it’d be a close race at best.
I have to believe you. As an old guy, those turbo Corvairs had a reputation for being fast. Truthfully the 140 Corvair engine was no slouch either.
I think so too 😃
@@NBSV1 stock is an easy 7.0 0-60mph. That is using a single throat side-draft carb. With a couple small mods, including carb, it can fly.
The guy driving the Corvairs didn't know to drive it at all
True
nope
I agree
Air-cooled VWs with less horsepower than that Corvair smoke Mustangs all day long..that Corvair should have easily walked that Piata.
Yeah those 180 engines aren't pulling full HP until in high rpm range. That run the driver wasn't even engaging the turbo. But the likelihood of braking things goes up if you start really pushing it, so I can see why they really didn't race it...
The second gen Corvair is one of the best looking cars ever.
Best looking after the 63!!
Regret ever selling my 66 corvair
Werd, my pops had a red corvair monza.
@@icuinthelight Gen 1: 1960-64. Gen 2: 1965-69.
I had a 1965 Corsa convertible with 4 carbs. Wonderful car and for the year, more technologically advanced than the Porsche 911. Just a few inexpensive mods made it handle much better than when it came from the factory.
Nice video... .love the bonus. ...but there was no doubt in my mind that the Miata would take the Corvair. Modern technology. That being said, I'd rather own the Corvair!
I owned a turbo corvair I am sure I could smoke that Mazda with it. High rpms out of the hole to get the boost up. Mine would go sideways grab 2nd.
No engine shot in the video was blasphemy ... the Corvair was the first production turbo car (1 gen) and is Amazing American technology that was lost to the Pony car revolution and cheap gas. My Corsa 140 will be converted to turbo when I get time ... modern turbo and EFI ... I'll beat the Miata :P
The stock 1966 turbo six had 180 hp. A stock 140 hp Corsa is faster than 18 sec. 1/4 mi. My 3500 lb 91 Camaro with 180hp would run a 17 flat and that was slow. I think the driver was a little scared of hurting the car or something.
I also drove a 66 Corsa 4 carb 140hp(I'm sure it didn't have 140hp by the time I drive it)as my first car in the mid 70's and it was nowhere near the shape this car was in. It would have run better than an 18 sec quarter. It also had the stock 13" tires and wheels on it. That helped the gearing some as I'm sure that this car has 15" wheels and tires.
SHOULD HAVE LET JAY LENO DRIVE IT.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believeth in Him shall not parish but have everlasting life.
God Bless and stay safe.
As Bob Dylan said, "The times they are a changing."
Is there a way to get the boost up on the corvair? I know it's air-cooled but it should be able to take a little more with some carb jetting maybe?
That Corvair is beautiful.
They need to rerun the corvair and actually leave with some rpm
You obviously know Corvairs. With a turbo you need to leave at 4000 RPM and shift at 5500 RPM to get the most power from a Corvair. Hard on the car? Yes, henceforth the above Corvair ran the way it did. It's a museum piece after all.
Yes, and some attempt at having an even start. The launch makes the difference in a drag race. Leave hard as possible with an even start, and if you can't fix a broken clutch, no need to be participating in drag racing at all!
I started to buy a new 67 Corvair, but bought a new 67 SS427 instead. I wish I still had either one of them now. I too love the shape of the 66 & 67 Corvair, but I probably would have had a small block Chevy V8 with rear wheel drive before long.
They should have switched drivers too.
The Turbo Corsa was very crude, and had no waste gate or intercooler. In most circumstances the 140 HP four carb would outperform a turbo because of it's wider power band.
I was expecting better performance out of the Corsa Corvair. Maybe they should have switched drivers for some races. Nevertheless, given the choice between the two, I'd still choose the Corvair. In part because I'm more fond of the NA & NB Miata's and I've just always liked Corvairs.
Agreed.
The Corvair is beautiful.
I'm surprised that the boosted Corvair got tromped, because it's horsepower and torque numbers we're better. It was, no doubt handicapped by having only four gears, as opposed to the Miata's six.
@@jeromebreeding3302 it’s due to turbo lag. On the Corsa 180s boost kicks in around third gear.
A vintage 4 speed can no way in hell wind out like a modern close ratio 6 speed. Also get another effing driver, he can't drive for sh!t!😝
The Corsa model of the Corvair is the one you want. Back in the 60's they had a highly modified version with 250 H.P. N.A. That's crazy
This is incredibly good. Between you guys and Hagerty, there's some seriously cool stuff coming out from new sources.
Michael has a point. Back in the '70's, I owned both '65 and'66 Corvairs. Both had the stock 4 Rochester carburetors on the 140 H.P. engine. At the same time, a friend had a '66 180 H.P. turbo Corsa. Out of the hole, I could leave him way behind. But, once his turbo spooled, up he'd slingshot past me. IMHO, if you wanna race a Miyata in the quarter mile, you'd be better off with the 140 motor and not change gears until peak torque. I've driven a lot of upscale sporty cars, but my 2nd gen Corvairs remain the most fun and best handling ever. I loved everything about them - totally civilized, versatile with indestructible engines. And the Italian designed body was a treat!
Such a shame they got labeled "dangerous". Wish we had an equivalent to the corvair today.
Also had a turbo 180 Corvair with minilites, racing seats, racing steering wheel...what a great car. I miss it.
Bad driving skills, my 65 140hp Corsa ran 16.0's all day long at OCIR in 1974 when I was in high school with just jetting and distributor work and Piper headers with some actual speed shifting. Ran 18.00 first run weeks after getting my licence and was a blast in the SoCal canyons too.
I wonder if the Corvair would’ve won if the driver didn’t granny shift (in a drag race)!
Took the words right out of my mouth.
I had to laugh at the shifts in the Corvair. The lever must have moved 18 inches. That just sucks the time out of the 0-60 times.
yup, than and a sleepy driver shifting at 4k
The shifter coupling bushing at the transaxle must have been shot. Or, the shift bracket on the floor had loose bolts. That shift lever moved much too far for something to not be right. That, and the short-shifting the driver was doing...
They have a short shifter for the car. The link that connects the shifter linkage to the transmission is also famously know for becoming loose and sloppy. In my case, It was almost impossible to get the car into reverse before I replaced it.
Back in 1969 I raced my Corvair Corsa against a 289 Ford Galaxie 500. Beat him by 2 lengths.
I'm actually surprised and delighted to hear that you have to train your employees to drive stick. I thought that'd be a requisite
🤣That's a low bar
It IS! That’s why they are getting trained.
My Dad tried to teach me "power shifting" in a 68 Camaro. When it was my turn to drive, I proptly broke the left motor mount and the trans mount and sawed the upper radiator hose in two. Drive it like you stole it.
That 2008 Miata ( MX-5 ) is a great car to learn how to shift a manual transmission. Clutch is very light & its shifter has a relatively short throw into every gear. How do I know ? Well I'm driving the newer updated version a 2016 MX-5 Club soft top. Its about 2340 pounds rated at 155 hp with 148 ft / lbs of torque. A blast to drive !
Evidently, they didn't teach the Corvair driver long enough. Roughly the same weight of cars, but more horsepower and more torque in the Corvair, this should have been a lot closer.!
The turbo comes on about 3000 RPM if it’s working right it’s strong and it should have taken the Miata
Corvair is very popular with ultralight aircraft builders. Bulletproof reliability can be modified substantially.
The driver in the Corvair needed to add boost pressure when taking off. That makes a lot of difference at the track in a turbocharged car or truck. I never really heard the turbo kick in on any of those runs. Also, those long throws in the Corvair shifter certainly add time when compared to the short throw shifter in the Mazda Miata! When driven properly, that Corvair should beat the Miata hands down. You just have to know how to drive a turbocharged car at the track. 😉
It's hard to pre-load the turbo in a manual car, also the Corvair turbo was designed to only make useable boost over 3,000 rpm because it didn't have a waste gate.
@@hoodagooboy5981 Yes, it’s harder to build up boost pressure with a manual transmission, but it can be still be done with a heavier duty racing clutch, racing fly wheel that’s balanced along with a line lock. I have a Buick GN prototype engine in my ‘83 GMC S-15 4wD pickup truck which was the very 1st GN engine swap conversion of it’s type in the US. Turbo magazine even begged me to have them do a feature story on that engine conversion in 1989. However, I never got around to it. At that time, I was getting 20 pounds of boost with no detonation while using Eldebrock Water/Alcohol injection with a couple gallons of Turbo Blue racing fuel added to the tank. I had a T-5 with short throw shifter, adjustable waste gate with a line lock too. My heads were blueprinted and flow tested and matched to my intake. I even had a Turbonetics racing compressor wheel with Stage 3 Kenny Duttwieiler Racing cam with TRW Stainless Steel racing valves too. The GMC Syclone didn’t come out until 1991 so I was two years ahead of that. Currently that truck is in storage. Of course, it helps to know how to drive a turbocharged car, or truck with a manual transmission in a drag race at a drag strip. You have to keep the RPM’s up when launching off of the line.
Learned how to drive a 4-speed at age 15 in my friend's Corvair 140. It ran good but the shifter was kinda mushy. He installed bigger wheels and tires and cranked the rear camber and it cornered great. Car was great fun for us teenagers.
Of course the Miata is faster...the Corvair is 55 years old! Still nothing beats driving a unique and beautiful antique example of American Iron from tbev1960s
@@kurtlamprecht93 Um...it's an idiomatic expression. I've owned Corvairs for many years and am well aware of the Corvair engine. By the way, the cylinders ARE cast iron...
Cool video, it’s rare to see a corvair being run but it’s clear someone put an RPM limit on the driver of the corvair turbo
Next time find someone under 80 to drive the Corvair
The 140 HP Corvairs were faster than the turbos in the quarter mile.
Seeing the corvair pushing it on some mountain curves would be really interesting
@Phil M I wonder how good it would handle with some custom fabricated sports suspension
@@370gtalej5 my friend took his last year production 1969 Corvair Convertable and did custom rear suspension modifications using "newer" Corvette suspension. Stays put in his garage so we'll never know what its like...
I’d still at the end of the day rather have the Corvair. I owned one back in the day and loved it. Sorry I ever sold it, especially seeing I bought a Pinto. Ughh.
Did something similar.
Then go get yourself one now! Still a lot out on the roads!
lol, it's not surprising at all that Doug is the type of guy to wear a helmet but not actually strap it on.
In 1965 my 1962 102 hp corvair did 19.00 the time I ran it.
My 1968 Corvair..140hp did 17.0 something..that broke my dial in time..only two runs.
By the way ..no wheel spinhere?
These guys are too scared to rag the cars. Every car's been 1 or 2 seconds slower on the quarter than they are capable of. My 126hp 1965 VW Beetle (still with 1285cc) runs a 15:08 and its not even built for drag racing
Thanks, Petersen Automotive, always love the vids! :)
Glad you like them!
If the Corvair had modern mechanicals (tech, engine upgrades, suspension), I'd take the Corvair. It's one of the most beautifully designed cars ever made.
In 1966 a corsa turbo, ran the quarter mile in 13 seconds flat, now what do you say. Its in the nhra books look it up.
Kenneth - do you have the reference for this run? Was it stock? From our archive, Motortrend ran an 18.1 quarter in 1965 with the turbo 4spd.
Hahaha!
Nope.
Tom Keosababian's might. But that was a modified Bonneville car.
@@PetersenMuseum am pretty sure I do, will look up and post to you, they were advertising a isky or inderson cam. It ran in stick class.
If a Corvair ran 13 flat it would have been one of the quickest cars of its era. That faster then a stock hemi.
@@Troy_nov1965 yes because the corvair got traction from the go and the hemi spun its tires a ton before getting the traction.
Its was an add advertising isky cams. Thr corvair was very well prepared in ALL areas, they told how it was done. But it was true, I got a friend looking up the orgional add for me. I will post this when I get it.
Keep the stick training going the corvair driver needed hands on training on how a turbo spools up to launch more efficient clutch dropping at 700 rpm not much to talk about
The clutch should be dropped at about 4500 rpm......
I have a feeling the people at the museum that has the corvair gave strict instructions not to run it at higher rpms...
Corvair! Outstanding automobile! Dave...
I've got to say, that's the best looking Corvair I can remember seeing.
You gotta get the turbo to wind up bet id smoke it if driving it. I had one got rev zone you gotta keep it in
I’ll still take the Corsair. It just looks cooler Wish I still had mine form the 70s
i have 6 very good cars
@@Monza62000 sell Micky Smith one...
@@icuinthelight He wants a Corsair. Not sure exactly what that has to do with this as there were no GM Corsairs.
If your drivers had to learn stick this is not a fair comparison. Neither car is being used to its full potential. Plus, a 6-speed is of course going to accelerate better than a 4 speed. You should put the Corvair's Powerglide up against the Miata Automatic with your drivers, or use professional racers with stick.
And you let the Miata compete *and* flag the start? C'mon.
For the record, the Corvair turbo has clocked an under-14 second time at the Salt Flats. Stock.
Do you have a reference for the salt flat run? From our archive, motortrend ran an 18.1 quarter in 1965 with the turbo 4spd.
@@PetersenMuseum The times are recorded in "How to Keep Your Corvair Alive" (c) 1986 by Richard Finch. I was wrong about the stock for under 14 seconds. That time was on a V-8 Corvair Conversion. Stock was 15.6 seconds. Please respond to @playerpage. This is my son's account and I didn't realize I used it to comment.
I really enjoy this. You guys “launch” vehicles without putting any major stress to the drivetrain. I consider this a proper “launch”. Especially when it’s your own vehicle and you know you have to live with it for many years to come. 👍🏻👏🏻
So many people get caught up with what’s on paper. Doing those claimed 3sec or lower launch’s is an incredible amount of shock to the drivetrain. If you don’t have to do maintenance to it, sure, go nuts and destroy clutches and whatever else gets eaten alive with those type of starts.
Even the Bugatti does a gentle start and still managed to crush the opposition. 👏🏻
The drivers not only not only had an incredible slow reaction time, but not one race made any attempt to have an even start.. They not only knew nothing about driving a stick shift, but didn't seem to know anything else about drag racing!
Yeah...looked like the old boy was a little conservative with the power that his engine could generate. Need to see it again with a higher shift point.
an old drag racing trick for the corvair was to loosen the fan belt so that when your racing the car would throw the belt off and give you a little more power
Thanks for that reminder, I did that on my 64 Spyder, along with several other tricks. Got the tricks from Hot Rod Magazine....
Love this. Had a 2007 Grand Touring Miata and now have a 2010 Grand Touring. So much fun to drive and really gets a great start. Only had it up to 100 before shutting down due to light weight and on a road with dips. Can you say going airborne??? lol Still had over 2500rpms to go before redlining.
Yep , the Miata's are a blast to drive especially the soft tops now they have the Retractable Fastback roof as a choice. The 2016 Club I have is so nimble in the corners plus quicker off the line with the LSD & light BBS wheels. For a modern car its easy to work on & do the normal maintenance. I daily drive this car.
I’ve owned both the Corvair and the Miata. Both were fun to drive, which is why I owned them.
I feel like they were being super gentle on the old car and was beating the hell outta the new car. It's easier to fix the new car if they break it and parts are hard to find for the corvair. That's why the outcome was what it was.
@@icuinthelight 🤣🤣🤣🤣... I guess you can call me a kid... seeing as the last corvair produced was 12 years before I was born. Soooooo... ya, that makes them pretty old. Seeing as I'm 42. And, I'm sure there is plenty of them around still. And, sure SOME parts are easily found. But, if they blow up the turbo on that thing or crack a block then they arent exactly going down to the nearest auto zone to get parts for them. Now, are they?!?... I do like corvair monza and corsairs. And, I've always thought the yenko ones were pretty awesome. But, never liked them enough to actually buy one. They're just not my cup of tea. Everyone has their favorite flavor. That's just not mine. Maybe if you were driving that old corvair, you woulda shown that newfangled miata a little backside throttling... huh...??🤣👍👌
@@icuinthelight OK... OK... that was a pretty good run. Looked very modified... and still only ran a 13 sec 1/4 mi.🤣👍. Not saying you can make a miata with a stock engine run much faster... but still, sounded like a wounded donkey and the gear shifts were as notchy as my bedpost. Like I said before, everyone has a flavor... corvair just ain't mine. Not saying they arent an interesting niche in the hobby... cuz, I like the way they look. But, they're not a porsche 930 turbo... or a toyota supra... a 69 dodge charger or even a L79 nova. You have to wring that thing out SUPER hard to make any kind of power. It's just not worth it. Drive them for the fun little classic cars that they are. Nothing more nothing less.
It should be noted that the 180 Corvair Corsa was rated gross, not net like today. Chevy's technical papers on the 180 showed it actually put out 186 hp gross but only 145 net. Conversely the 140 Corsa only put out 110hp by todays standard. The transaxle also had quite a bit of drag as compared to cars today, some say as much as 20% meaning the 180 Corsa was only putting down somewhere in the neighborhood of 115-120whp. While the late model was still only about 2450 lbs, 120 hp is still rather modest.
Corvair, Miata...change drivers 2,out of 3...change drivers again. Don't race the Corvair if you have to baby shift! Put John Force behind the wheel jeez!
What a blast I was cheering and screaming watching the races!
Pretty much the only thing an RS6 or a Chiron can't pass is a gas station.
The Corvair would be my daily driver. Love that car.
I liked the way Corvairs sounded.
Next week on pointless drag races: we'll race a bugeye sprite versus an Enzo Ferrari🤟🤟🤟
In high school, I once drove my grandma's 63 Monza, My aunt had a black 63 Monza Then my dad bought a 66 silver Monza with factory chrome spokes that had those knockoffs. Sharp looking!!!. I took my driver's license test in that. I once drove it in the fast lane of a Los Angeles freeway going 70 mph..kinda spooked me since I was just learning to drive. We would race it against a Ford Econoline pickup of my uncle. Since the Corvair was new, the rings got fried to the cylinder walls. Then I got my own cars. Would like to get a 66 Monza with a 4 speed now..
Drivers should have swapped cars between runs. The guy driving the Corvair was overweight and not shifting correctly.
3:08 "How to drive stick". We call it a manual gear box. Not long ago everyone knew how to drive a manual and if they didn't well you didn't get in with them because they couldn't bloody drive. Todays drivers lack so much skill it's frightening.
You had eight cars there, we only saw four in action!
Don't think that Corsa is getting 180 horse out of the engine. Maybe low boosting turbo?
After the “Unsafe at Any Speed”, early model of the Corvair, GM changed the rear suspension and these cars handled and were fun to drive. So after getting it right, GM then Killed Off the Corvair.
No Nader killed it’s sales. You think companies can build stuff that isn’t selling?
Corvairs aren't dead yet...still hundreds of thousands still registered and driving, just check out Corvair Conventions!
Actually, the early suspension was checked out by the Transportation Administration and was found to be just fine. As for the late models, they were designed and on the market before Nader's book ever came out.
The 140 HP cars were quicker in the quarter mile.
The Miata driver had the advantage to start with, he was the flagman!
Beep Beep Beep 🤪
I call "FOUL!"
On the second run the Corvair got a head start, the Miata still easily walked away. Peak HP isn't everything
My cousin had a turbo corsa but his was a convertable.
My father owned a '66 Corsa convertible. I remember the Corsa as having four 1 bbl carbs and was rated at 140 HP. The turbo was the Spyder and was rated at 180 HP. I own an '18 Miata Club and it is a MUCH better overall car. As it should be 55 yrs of engineering improvements.
Spyder was the pre'-65 turbo Corvair. For '65-'66, both the 140 and 180 were Corsa.
The Chevrolet Corvair was the closest thing to the Porsche 911, rear mounted, aluminum air cooled and six cylinder horizontally opposed configuration engine. Dave...
Exce3pt that the65 and later Corvair had better suspension geometry than any911 has ever had.
Was that leaded premium gas in that Corvair?
Corvairs don't need leaded gas. They had hardened valve seats from the get go. The 140 engines have interesting valves and were known to drop a seat from time to time.
The Corvair not only looks better than the Mazda, it also looks more modern. Beautiful car, I'd drive it any speed.
I like the Corvair myself.
Next time put the relic in the Mazda!
Your Corvair Corsa times are weak. My 1965 Corvair Corsa powered with a stock 140 horsepower( 4 one barrel carbs) and 4 speed consistently ran mid to high 16 second quarter mile runs at our local drag strip back in the early 1970's.
Yes 🙌🏼
The corsair corsa had the best instrument panel out there. Big 140mph speedometer ,big tach with cylinder temp gauge, pressure gage and two more. Sound was fantastic also.Not a fair fight. 1960s tech vs 1990.
The Corvair was the best handling north american built production car in 1966. My 66 140 would get 15ft of rubber grabbing second gear, just saying ;)
I agree I would get rubber in all four gears on my 65 corsa. Redlined at 110 mph it wasn’t fast but it was quick .
No mention of rear end ratios. Makes a big difference.
6-speed Miata probably has lower rear end, quicker acceleration.
Yes. Corvairs had 3.27, 3.55 and 3.89 ratios. Big difference. The 66 and up transaxles were better than the 65 on the second generation cars.
My 65 corsa would redline at 110 mph.
Like a lot of boomers, I’ve owned both… and both were convertibles. A 62 Corvair Monza , 4 speed, and a 2002 Miata, also 4 spd. Lots of fun with two little ragtops.. 40 years apart. oh, and there was a 67 Camaro SS 4spd convertible in between.😊. Another crazy fact, none had power tops.
I owned a 65 turbo, and I both road raced (closed course) and drag raced it. I only took it to the strip once and it did 104 mph in 14.0 seconds. I was abusive on the start to compensate for turbo lag. I floored the throttle with the yellow and dropped the clutch on green. I eliminated a 283 Chevy II and a 350 El Camino before being eliminated by a studebaker lark (R3 Avanti engine). I saw a 64 with an automatic turn high 12 second because he could get full boost on the line. At club events I could beat everything in my class including porches and solid axle corvettes. In 1965 porches did not have the power, and the Corsa had four wheel independent suspension. Research Corvair racing history for yourself.
The corsa should have been behind at the start, but zoom-zoomed past the Mazda well before the finish. Even with an easy start the Corvair should have run a 15.0 1/4 if shifted at redline. Nuff Said
When I was a kid, our family had two corsairs, one a blue stripper with the weird dash shifter, and one a white Monza Spyder (?)
Becayse the old man always bought Buicks and Oldsmobiles, I though this is weird.
Anyway, they were the first cars I ever drove, I remember putting it half in an excavation for a sewer line that had been dug in the middle of our street, both right side wheels in the ditch.
I think my brother got a couple of friends and we just shoved it out and we never spoke of it again.
No, your family did not have two Corsairs.
Oh SNAP...!!!! Thats POUND/FEET of torque, professor... a foot-pound is a whole different measurment...sheeesh🙄
Seemed like not a good contest the close ratio 6 speed against the wide ratio 4 speed. Fun to watch though.
No one should be working at the museum if they don't know how to drive stick
The problem for the Corvair is how the turbo is setup. It uses a pretty large turbo for the engine and uses plain bearings inside the turbo charger. That means it takes forever and a day for it to spool up. Also, you are guaranteed to destroy the motor if you keep the turbo up for too long. This is 60's technology we're talking about here. A better comparison would have been the 140HP Corvair since it doesn't need nearly as long to reach peek power.
Great video.
Wish I'd known about this. I live in Creston, about 10 miles away.
he was too soft with the corvair. As a kid in the 70's I drag raced a 140 hp corsa. Diffs would go before the clutch and wheelies were normal.
Cool, really enjoyed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you! More races coming!
@@PetersenMuseum 👍😉
5:55 Rear wheel steering in action
Well not quite… the crank casing & heads were aluminum yes but the six air cooled finned cylinders were cast iron, not aluminum.
Reminds me of drag racing my 1959 VW bug with a stock 36 hp engine
I wonder if they told Tim Allen they were going to drag race his car? Loaning a car for display is one thing. Loaning it for them to wail on it is another.
The Corvair was a car way ahead of its time and misunderstood. If it had been built after 2010, it would have been successful because today there are elements and additives that required its proper functioning. Especially when it comes to oil leaks.
Corvair needs a driver mod.
The torque of an engine is in lb-ft, as in the caption, not ft-lbs, which is twisting torque, as for bolts.
The 6-speed in the Miata makes a big difference in performance.
I seriously doubt the Corvair still has 180HP and on top of that is the fact that before 1971 car makers rated horsepower for a given engine on a test bench and not at the rear wheels.
This is why the 166HP Miata smoked the Corvair.
I think some of the corvair’s ponies have left the barn. Like more than a few.
THISSSSSSSSSS! Is the 2021 Audi RS6, and today I'm going beat the hell out of it.
My aunt bought a new Corvair. Never could get the oil leaks stopped.
That problem was later corrected with Viton O-rings that were better suited for the heat of a Corvair engine.
That was then. The Viton seals didn't show up until later. While the car was out of production, a reseal with Viton solved most of the problem. Chevrolet service was just as terrible back then as it is today.
Had two corvair. Can't believe this. Valves probably need
Adjust on corvair. That was critical to performance on corsair. I seriously think . If I had been driving results would have been different. Whoops did I say that!!! It is what it is!😁😆😅🤣
Corvair needs more cogs to keep the engine in the power band. The driver shifted too soon, not allowing the turbo to spool up.
The Corvair turbo models are at a disadvantage in a drag race. The turbo takes forever to build boost. I have owned Corvairs of both types and the naturally aspirated ones do better at the drag strip. I raced stock 1964 Corvair (110 hp motor) and made ET's of 17.75 routinely. That was going through the lights in 3rd gear (out of 4).
I spit my water out when you described the Covair as America's Porsche. That is a true statement only in wet dreams of the most deluded Covair owner. The Covair is an interesting car, a guy who wanted to date my older sister had one and hung with me for awhile well trying to make time with her. The car is fun to ride in (I was in jr. high at the time) but I have owned and driven Porsche's including 912's from that era and there really is no comparison between the two other than they both have rear engines.
You mean the Chevrolet Covid?
Be a big help if the chevy had an enthusiastic driver
Back in the 1960s Bill Hartley would late night road race his Corvair to augment his income.In the south hills of Pgh.(Stinger).
Best thing to do with that strip is call it an airport and use it as a runway.
And, ladies and gentlemen of the comments section: The car is a CORVAIR, not a Corsair. The model of Corvair which was performance-oriented with either the turbo or the 140hp engine as standard was called CORSA, which is Italian for "racer". A Corsair was originally an ocean-going French pirate vessel, then a couple hundred years later the Navy hung the name on a fighter plane made by Chance-Vaught (F4-U Corsair). Again... it's a CORVAIR, not Corsair. And the factory "hotrod" version was a Corvair CORSA, in '65 and '66. The turbo engine was only available in the CORSA models of Corvair, in '65 and '66. The earlier model Corvairs supplied with turbochargers were all SPYDERS, '62-'64. Just thought I'd mention it. :-)
PS: The standard variant of Corvair was called Monza. Monza is a race course in Italy.