I Didn't Like The Northman Very Much
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.พ. 2025
- Happy Leif Erikson Day! This year, I'm reviewing the Robert Eggers Viking epic The Northman.
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I think what you’re missing here is exactly how phenomenal Alexander Skarsgard looks with his shirt off, thus negating the need for a plot.
Yes, his torso is carrying a lot of weight in this movie.
@@nataschavisser573 It looks like a very firm, load-bearing Torso.
You make a great argument
@@nataschavisser573 It’s a firm, load-bearing torso.
Well said.
What you’re missing is that the Northman is actually an allegory about me and how cool I am
I'll vouch for you--the guy from Jurassic World's name is Owen Thunderguns and his submissive lady-friend's name is Submissive Lady-Friend.
Does he hang dong?
One of Mike’s finest lines.
Every time I think of Chris Pratt I think of Owen Thunderguns.
Huh, I thought her name was Girlboss stereotype.
Sarah Harding was a far better character than PR Manager Lady and friggin Donald Gennaro was far more compelling than Badass Navy SEAL Man. The JW trilogy is an insult to the first trilogy.
Nah that's "Heels"
Whoah....Sup, Gents?
The King of Occult Scholarship as arrived.
I'm just using Atún Shein to make me a subscriber of esoterica
I feel like the single shot of the village raid scene makes it much less glorious then typical action movie styles would've. You see amleth pacing through the mud and brooding looking for something to do while the village burns around him. I think the casualness of it, and the fact that it isnt a crazy action sequence is part of the charm. It makes it more like "oh, these guys are just absolutely destroying this peaceful village" and less "awesome fight scene spectacle". It helps to emphasize the weakness of the village versus the overpowering might of the raiders.
Idk he literally catches a spear and throws it back, the entire one shot thing gave huge action sequence vibes. In my mind, it was clearly meant to evoke badassery but was slightly tempered with horror. I definitely don’t think it was anti-action or anything.
Not really that whole sequence just felt like shameless Viking porn lmfao
ya. One of my pet peeves is the tendency to depict Vikings at just "hipster pagens" not violent raiders and slavers.
@@MrChickennugget360 never seen them portrayed as “hipster pagans” I’ve seen them portrayed as the barbaric hobo leather wearing heathens incapable of any intelligence besides boat building and knowing how to kill and that’s it. I’d like more depictions of Vikings that aren’t just black and white where the only options are either insanely violent or insanely violent but chill and instead have something more complex and realistic showing both the good and bad of Viking culture.
I was thinking that. amaleth is walking casually and the camera is following him. To amaleth the violence around him is not scary or threatening, it's just another Monday. Sure the violence is less impactful but that's kind of the point, this guy is a professional raider who is completely used to violence.
Leif Erikson was a man that liked to live life on the edge, in the fast lane. He was a man that lived like Larry.
He knew all the right people; he took all the right pills. He threw outrageous parties; he paid heavenly bills.
Ben Larry Kenobi?
Leisure Suit?
Spoiler Warning:
One of the most intense scenes in cinema is in the tiny ass room toward the end, when he has killed his brother and his mother, and the man he has been hunting quietly enters the doorway, lifts his dead wife and son, and they stare intensely at one another
No music. Barely any sound. Two shots.
Gave me fucking goosebumps, that
I like how tired and so over it Aleth is.
He can't even muster up any big response when his uncle brings up his father.
yep that was my favorite scene too. his uncle didn't even have a response to what he did, he was emotionally checked out at this point and wanted to get it over with
@@SubliminaIMessages I know what you mean, but "checked out" might not be the words I'd use. They're both completely drained, but mostly it felt like words just weren't necessary between them at that moment. They know there's only one thing left to do, so they just look at each other and reach a warrior's agreement.
But yeah I do love that scene. There are a few standout moments, but overall I had much higher expectations for a Robert Eggers viking movie.
@@SubliminaIMessages
@@brianjohnson4082
I get what you mean but... manly man doesn't use words, it's the last fight, so let's fight is not all that revolutionary.
Its not really a viking story and more of a viking-themed hamlet, and it WILDLY succeeds at that imo
1000% agree with that
This is based on the original story of Amleth, which William Shakespeare turned into Hamlet
Hamlet if we saw his college days before the plot started, but with murder instead of books.
Idk man if you listen to Andy's points, the characters aren't really as interesting or layered as Hamlets' are, Hamlet himself having the layers of madness, existential questions around death and suicide, and different mechanisms and means of revenge. Amleth is, as the video says, basically Angry Revenge Man without really questioning or engaging with revenge as a concept or theme
I mean I disagree with that as well though. Northman is the only Viking related content that I've seen that used actual period-accurate weapons and armour (except for the naked berserkers)
One thing I feel you may have overlooked is Amleth's pursuit of revenge is portrayed in a self-destructive light. The events of his childhood have produced an extremely unlikable person. One who readily throws away his current life just to get a chance at revenge after learning his target is more vulnerable than he believed. Its only after he sees his uncle and mother again that he starts to learn the view he's had of them since his childhood is deeply flawed, and a large part of his motivation since then was a lie. That is, in my opinion, one of the pivotal points of the film since it directly undermines his entire character up until this point and recontextualizes almost everything before that scene.
That aspect is for sure interesting, but they could have done so much more with that
yes! he's not supposed to be likeable
Cool, but the thing is, it's next to impossible for audiences to invest in an extremely unlikeable person, at least in the role of a protagonist. We love a douchebag villain because we know he's gonna get his, but a snotsmear of a protagonist is a total loss.
Like, think of Joffrey Baratheon in HBO's Game of Thrones. A real insufferable twat, everyone loved to hate him, people celebrated that character getting killed. Right? Absolutely awful and unlikeable and that made him a great villain. Now imagine him as one of the show's main protagonists, put him in the role of Jaime or John Snow or someone. Uuuuuuuuuuuugh
@@TheRusty sounds like a you problem. I was extremely invested
@@jcavs9847 It's not. He is saying basic, non-controversial stuff. You can be a contrarian all you want, but then, we have the whole history of literature to reference as to what kind of characters really works as protagonists.
I don’t think that the village massacre is supposed to be “cool action”. It’s supposed to be horrifying. What they are doing is wrong, and terrible. I think that it is one shot because it’s like you can’t look away. The camera won’t look away. You have to sit there and take in the awfulness of what they are doing and what it means for who the protagonist is.
Yeah, I think this is one of those things where the culture has put things on the movie that are unfair. I agree 100% with the village scene, but then you get a few thousand altright neo-pagans luxuriating in it all over the internet and suddenly the perception of what that scene could possibly mean shifts
@@xunqianbaidu6917 come and see us such a better movie
@@joegibbskins Sure, but art shouldn't be beholden to what a minority of a minority on the internet thinks. Almost any film can do that if it's not explicitly pushing the opposite message of what you're afraid people will interpret from it.
Let's be real, you could not avoid what he talked about near the end in a movie about a big macho guy killing his enemies. You just have to accept that's going to happen when making your movie, and compromising your artistic vision because of what internet losers will think, is the shortest path to making a movie whose vision was utterly neutered.
@@SeruraRenge11 oh no for sure. I think my reaction to the ending was more “oh wow you did it you crazy bastard!” I’m just saying the one of the problems with everything (at least in the US) being the culture war is that it’s harder and harder to take in anything on its own terms because even if you don’t want to you have been exposed to the cultural conversation on both sides unless you’re like a Luddite Amish guy but then you probably didn’t see this anyway
@@joegibbskins What's wrong with neo-pagans?
15:18 I think what's funniest is that there's some real Uralo-Finnic people named the Chuds (or Chudes) who had a fair bit of interaction with Scandinavian peoples. I remember reading somewhere that the Sami tell stories to their children about how the Chudes will come and kidnap them if they misbehave.
There is an old film, called "The Pathfinder", which focus on the Chudes (Tschuden?) and their raids against the Samis. I found this film old-fashioned but beautiful - far better than that abomination, they filmed in 2007 under the same name: in this, they transfered the story to America, with horny wikings (yes, i think they realy have horned helmes) as the bad guy and the protagonist as a raised-by-natives viking orphan, who of course become the white savior. Because the american natives of course can not get their sh*t together against some vikings, while at least according to the sagas they killed quiet a number and forced them to leave "Vinland"...😉
@@AB-gk8csthat film is one I watched on a whim, and I consider it the most important film I’ve ever seen.
Also the only reason I know the Chudes exists. And was my intro to the Sami.
Chuds definitely existed as there is a great documentary about them called Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers, clearly a standard Federal Four Letter Acronym a sure sign that the Feds had to deal with them.
Chudak still means a "weirdo" in orkspeak dunno if its related, most orski insults are based on ethnic slurs because their ideology is seeing them as the unwashed master race of toilet stealers.
@@KasumiRINA Yes, Finns and Estonians were called Chudes by Russians as a pejorative according to wikipedia.
I'd actually disagree with the supernatural elements being imaginary.
Rather, they are executed in a way that allows the viewer to choose to see them as either imagination or reality.
Exactly! They represent the main character's world view, that's what matters.
like Eggers generally does. Its weird to me that he criticizes that element in The Northman, while its presented as possibly supernatural in all his movies. It seems to major theme of his.
@@rorycampbell7490 except the draugr scene. that one was perfectly clear that it happened only in his mind
It doesn't matter. The character treats it literally and you're meant to be experiencing the events of the film as he does.
@Armazillo You could say the same thing about the Witch. Or literally any story with "ambiguous" supernatural elements. This is what leaving something open ended is.
Vinland Saga should've been a slice-of-life anime
vinland saga but 2/3 of it is the farm arc
Farm arc best arc.
It has same manga author as Planetes which is sci Fi about space exploration
It is tho 😏
Those who criticize the Farm Arc. Trust me, if you hang on and gotten through the "Farm Arc". You will definitely like the "Baltic Sea Arc" coming up. Vinland Saga is truly a slept on series. Season 1 was so good, it made me read the manga.
I love this movie. Robert Eggers tricked a major studio into giving him 100 million dollars to make an art film about Viking nihilism. That's amazing.
Nihilism is boring.
@@Konoronn sure! But tricking soul-sucking Hollywood studios into giving you money to make anti-capitalist art projects is hilarious.
@@KonoronnUnless it’s positive nihilism like Everything, Everywhere, All at Once
@@adventpsyopno, that's shit too
gay
The opening part of this video traumatized me to my core. The look in the viking dog's eyes was pure malice.
Have you met _Meles meles_ at all? A _hund_ would have to be crazy or desperate to go after one of those, so the _Dachshund_ was bred to be both.
A devil dog he be.
Fear thee Berserk Hound of Hell ! 🥰
Dog: "I do not like hat."
I don't necessarily agree that there had to be a major kingdom to fight over or that the main character had to abandon his revenge at the end. It's to show he's bound by a vendetta he can't bring himself to abandon. The tragedy of the unending nature of the vendetta is a recurring theme in several sagas. I do agree that him saying 'I choose both' and the bombastic nature of the fight and the weird royal bloodline scene at the end is a cop-out. The movie should have committed to the final fight being tragic and pointless, rather than being epic despite how pointless it still is in context. The point that even complete revenge with his uncle's entire family and his mother dead can't make him whole could have been a more thoughtful conclusion, but since he dies in the fight and there's a scene showing the glorious destiny of his bloodline at the end, we do very much get the impression that he somehow still died fulfilled.
The bloodline vision at the end does undercut the anti-revenge point you describe, which I agree is what the movie seems to be saying. My take is that it is just a dying, unreliable "dream sequence" like the two (?) others in the movie. I understand that can be a bit hard to swallow, though.
I would argue that while it could be seen as a pointless death he could have avoided if let go of his desire for revenge, for the character, it really wasn't. The supernatural elements might be all in his head, there's certainly enough room for that. But according to his world view, he died avenging his father's death and he died in battle. It wasn't a tragic end to him at all.
@@patron8597 Yeah I think people are missing how anthropological this film is. In Amaleth's warrior-aristocrat culture gaining revenge is something to be celebrated. Its honor-culture bullshit. It only seems like a folly because we see the events from our cultural lens. Amaleth ended the film by gaining revenge and securing more progeny. That's... that's the stuff warriors in honor-cultures want!
Tbf I think it's kind of hard to show on the screen that yeah the director himself probably views his death as pointless, but the chracter itself would not view it that way. Alot of people probably died in the past thinking they were serving there purpose when to us its just a tragic waste of life. They could of shown Anya taylor joys chracter being more upset with his decision..frankly I don't even remember how she reacted. But I do think a point of the movie was to show that people in the past would think very differently from us so, idk
"The movie should have committed to the final fight being tragic and pointless," Honestly, why? To show some form of morality? It make sense in a setting like that, influenced by a culture that is based on honour revenge, strength that someone "thinks" and "feels" like that. I mean, it's not a happy end, at least for me it wasn't.
The thing that struck me about the bits of the sagas that I read is that so much of the action seemed to revolve around court cases. Maybe we need a Norse version of "A Few Good Men".
"Viltu sannleikann?! Þú getur ekki höndlað sannleikann!"
With Mads Mikkelson as Bengt Matlokson, hero of the allthing.
that would be amazing
Well, there's the Saga of burned Njall.
It's basically all about a prolonged legal battle between two best friends that absolutely love each other, and their wives who absolutely hate each other.
The wives try to stir sh*t up, the boys try to come to an amicable solution for both.
When the narration and camera swoop started my thoughts were "this better be for a dog"
I am tired of the northmen continuously depicted as unarmored half-naked screaming dirty savages on movies and TV.
Like even the critically acclaimed The Last Kingdom, the original author went into excruciating detail describing the chainmail armor used by the Danes, their highly organized combat tactics, the artistry of their house and ships, how they groomed themselves a lot more than saxons.... somehow all of that was lost in the adaptation.
I mean, all vikings WERE savages. To go on a viking means to go on a raid. Viking originally just meant pirate. So if you were a viking you were a savage. Most norsemen weren't vikings, but vikings, by definition, must be savages.
@@minutemansam1214 everyone was a savage by modern standards
@@jcavs9847 so whats wrong with depicting them as such
@@FlameQwert nothing. but it's not like the norse were especially bad, they just won more during that specific era and place
Those books were done so dirty by adaptation. Can't let the main character actually grow, age, and mature, it might ruin the sexiness. Like, he is only "young hothead" for the first 2-3 books, by book 6 he's more "terrifying old man."
In the village raid scene, I feel like Eggers was taking the opportunity to remake/"pay homage" to the climax of "Come and See." I remember sitting in the theater thinking, "So, we're doing this, huh?"
woah that's exactly what i thought too! definitely feels intentional with the one shot and the burning house details
Yeah only that all of this get's undercut by "cool viking dude" stylishly slicing up his virgin armored enemies while walking like a "badass".
@@rickymartin4457 eggers said he was inspired by conan the barbarian when making this movie
@@gerunkwon2598 Conan the Barbarian and Hamlet? What a combo
As others noted I read the point of the film as the tragedy of Amleth having an alternative to revenge in his grasp and then letting it slip away because he can’t let go of his need for vengeance.
The zombie sword fight is just giving us what we ~should~ have got in the Atlantean Sword scene in Conan The Barbarian.
I remember thinking it was rather fitting that the uncle had already lost his kingdom and was essentially exiled to Iceland, because it made the idea of enacting revenge against this guy... pathetic. The fact that it lowered the stakes made me more interested in how the desire for revenge ruined our angry shouty man.
The movie, ah, did not really deliver on this view of mine.
It's very Shakesperean too! Like adding a bit of Romeo & Juliet (futility of vendettas) to Hamlet (revenge problems). My fav take on that? O. Henry's Squaring the Circle. Short story but tl;dr: two families with long history and blood vendetta has two descendants meet in A CITY, and they drop those ancient village people customs and go drinking instead. The point is suburbia bad, city good. I agree.
Or maybe it shows that the guy didn't value wealth and power over his father's honor. I don't even like this movie, but you have to keep in mind that Fjölnir did murder his own brother, which was considered extremely unethical back then. These people didn't have a police system. The law had to be upholded by the people themselves.
That's what I took from it--Amleth's claim to Olga that he has to finish off his uncle to save their children is complete nonsense. Fjolnir has already lost his kingdom and been exiled to the edge of the world. He has what, less than a dozen armed guys with him? He's never leaving Iceland. Amleth and Olga and their children would be safe from him in the Rus. He's defined his whole life by this revenge, he refuses to put it down even when there's no more reason for it.
@digitaljanus Amleth also had virtually nothing to his name. I agree it's not a very good movie but that is definitely not the reason. There is no reason for Amleth not to die sooner rather than later. Abd Iceland was not literally the edge of the world. We wouldb't have all these stories about globetrotting icelanders greasing the palms of many foreign kings if it was. Leaving the country was not a problem.
It did for me
I think it's relevant that the co-writer of The Northman is Icelandic, and The Northman is more an adaptation of Ambale, the Icelandic version of Amleth, which only dates back to the romanticist period. The film is meant to be that version, an EPIC, so I don't think it's sensible to compare it to The VVitch or The Lighthouse, because they weren't aiming for that. Overall, I loved The Northman and given Andy's taste I'm not surprised he does not, but you know what Andy? I'm gonna start loving it even more now!
Yeah, I understand the comparisons to Hamlet, since Hamlet and The Northman are drinking from the same well, but focusing so much on them really misses the point.
This is it right here. I don't believe the frame for this film is "hard medievalism" based on detailed academic study of the period but is yes, the "romantic medievalism" - which relies on a mythical portrayal of the past to contrast the perceived shortcomings of the present. This for me is perfectly wonderful. Film is an art after all not a forensic or empirical treatise
@@SamuraiMujuru I don't think it does. I think you miss the point that much better stories can be cut from the same cloth as this movie. While the setting and prose of Hamlet may be non-nordic, it still nails the epicness of the saga format. The Northman, though it clothes itself a lot in the imagery and structure of the Viking age, does not.
I really have to disagree. Not every film needs a complex plot or characters. The Northman takes a simple story about revenge and executes that masterfully. This is like watching an old Norse folk tale come to life.
@@stewhv94 Even if you don't need "complex" characters, they need to have a minimum amount of humanity. Otherwise, the tragedy just falls flat.
@@MrGksarathyI would say the lack of humanity is the tragedy in and of itself
@@kivadacosta That's just boring. Tragedy requires empathy.
I agree with you
@@MrGksarathyif you can't recognize the tragedy of the Northman then you might not have empathy yourself, it's extremely easy to see everyone's tragedies
I loved The Northman. I was so glad I saw it in the theater. I think it made a big difference.
I rewatched The Northman while high on shrooms, that definitely made me feel lost in a primitive past, more barbaric yet more personal than our own
@@DieNibelungenliadit’s a tremendous drug movie for the boys
As far as I'm concerned the best "Viking-story" movie ever done was "THE !3th WARRIOR" with Banderas. The whole cast of actors - the MUSIC by Jerry Goldsmith - plus! - that whole "Viking prayer" in the end! ...that was a TRUE CLASSIC! Those sorts of movies never grow old.
Yup
12:30
Man, I really do love you. I do. But I absolutely despise this take.
Firstly let's start with a simple criticism I have of modern movies: there are too many cuts! Every single line of dialogue has a cut to the person speaking, every single movement of the character on-screen has a cut to the people around them, or to them themselves to show their face. It's tiresome. We need to start letting scenes B R E A T H E. One of the modern hallmarks of modern cinematography was that excellent battle scene in The Revenant, the giant minimally edited one-shot that everyone touts because, especially when it happened, it was a breath of fresh air for an action sequence.
Secondly, what does this minimally edited, well-choreographed shot achieve? That this is a shark wading through water, Noah splitting the Red Sea, a stable sort of insanity in the chaos of battle. A common theme that people who have major PTSD are known to have is what during stressful situations? Calmness. And even though our protagonist is fueled by rage, earning his keep among the Slavs as a butcher - his clearheaded murderous nature during this scene highlights truly how much of a broken man he really is. A fact highlighted by the premonition he receives soon after that leads him toward the man he was wanted dead since he was a boy.
This theme comes full circle at the end when he "chooses both" revenge and love - it's because it's a lie. He chose revenge. But he knows it's the wrong choice. He is the strongest most capable warrior in all of Vineland, arguably, but not strong enough to tell the love of his life that revenge drives him more than her heart.
Anyways, I feel like the emotional nature of the scenes feels more grounded specifically because the camera work isn't jumping around the battle like a fuckin' Michael Bay movie.
Agreed. One of the worst areas of action cinema was around the 2010's, when everyone over used quick-cut, shaky cam close-ups for action. This can work when shooting a chaotic, close pitched battle in which two armies clash, but it shouldn't be the go to for every action scene.
Especially here. It shows that killing and death has become second nature to the man we last saw as a crying little boy.
"The theme comes full circle at the end when he "choses both" revenge and love - it's because its a lie. He choses revenge. But he know its the wrong choice"
I disagree with this take.
Comming from a warrior-aristocrat ethos, which placed enormous importance on "lineage", but little on the humanity of women (Olga and Gudrun both being captives), I suspect that Amaleth genuinelly considers impregnating her as "love". Remember how afterwards we see the vision-tree again which notes how Amaleth's line has continued with progeny? That's important. That shows what Amaleth (and the culture he represents) cares about. He doesn't "genuinely" care about Olga. He cares about progeny and revenge -- in true warrior-aristocrat honor-culture fashion.
Exactly. A well-crafted oner is more thrilling than any ADHD quick-cut, shaky-cam action scene precisely because of how much craft it requires. I for one am really glad that the 2000s predilection for rapid-fire cuts is being thrown out in favour of longer takes that let you actually see what is going on and allow the viewer to look for smaller details. Also, the side-by-side comparison with Shaun of the Dead was a bit lame. It made for an amusing line in Atun's script but what is the side-by-side comparison that follows meant to illustrate exactly? That both films have long shots? Throwing together two shots from wildly different films that have a surface-level similarity is a visual straw-man and a weak one too.
@@DesignatedMember i don't disagree with your assessment, i would only suggest that it isn't farfetched to think that his broken relationship with women, and his championing of the warrior-aristocrat ethos, is a direct result of a) is mom serving that role as lineage purveyor and nothing else in his life, and b) him coming from royalty. his entire sense of what love is is fucked, hence the why the woman he loves does not agree with his actions in the end
This
This movie has two main messages, in my opinion.
1. The past is a different country, and our ancestors believed in things we can't really comprehend, to the point that they might as well be an alien culture. No matter how much someone might like to LARP as a viking, they can never really make themselves believe Valhalla is real.
2. Mothers are evil and will betray you.
I believe in Valhalla but I'm not a viking because a viking is a specific job that I do not do
@@splatoon99 also I don't want to do violence i just want to believe in Odin, Thor, freyr, frigg, hel, tyr, Freya, skaði etc and I want to believe in animism and believe that there are spirits around us and everything is alive and I don't imagine the gods appreciate being used for nazi purposes
@@splatoon99 but I take issue with you saying that a person now can't understand the culture because the beliefs make total sense to me
Yeah, in Norse culture, if you were a man born free, and someone insulted your masculinity, you and the person who insulted you had to fight to the death, and if you refused, the guy who insulted you got all of your property, and you, your wife, and kids became his slaves. It's so far from how we live, it's impossible to understand. If you went around today, fighting everyone who made a joke at your expense, to the death, they'd put you in jail.
@@theiathegondia7349 My friend, this man threw a dart and it landed squarely in your belly button.
0:47 "Be not afeared - I am become hound again."
Awww 🐶
Gonna disagree regarding Amleth’s arc. My interpretation of it was that once he realized that Olga and his kids wouldn’t be safe, while yes he went through with the killing, his reasons for doing so changed. That instead of doing it for his selfish need for revenge, now he’s doing it out of love and to protect his family. Which is also in the name of breaking the cycle of violence so no one goes after his family out of revenge.
I noticed that the word revenge was never spoken again after the boat scene.
And Amleth seems checked out over his father. Even when his uncle says "ill meet you at the gates of hel there you will be killed by the hand that killed your father." Amleth had little to no reaction to that. And when he's banging on his shield and doing his chant for the final battle he seems so tired and like he's just going through the motions. Ceremony with no pastion.
You could also see it in the entirely opposite direction, claiming it's for both, insisting that he continues the violence for the sake of his children, he abandons them and Olga in the end so that he can finish what he started even though he has any number of reasons to keep living now.
@@subponderous That's how I read it. He's basically failing to choose so he stays on his path of meaningless destruction.
Which is stupid, because if he dies there's no guarantee that his children will be safe.
"He mortally wounded him" is usually how the sagas tell it. Short and sweet.
And preceded and followed by a shit ton of mundane life activities and a shockingly large amount of politics XD
They also do not shy away from saying stuff like "and he cleaved the axe into his head so that the brains came leaking out". I know for a fact Eyrbyggja has gruesome descriptions of combat.
Thanks for letting me listen in on this conversation between people who are really into film.
Tell your son happy birthday, Erik
I think like most of eggers work the northman has a somewhat weak story going on but its vibes are purely immaculate straight up
I dunno I think The VVitch has a banger narrative, but I also studied 17th century Witchcraft accounts at university so I maybe get more out of it than most.
I agree with the sentiment
@@GeeBaroneso did I as part of my Jacobean Witch Plays class in my first year as an English Major. It was a 4000 level class, and I didn’t know what that meant until after that.
Also started the final essay at 12 pm the day it was due, and finished thirty minutes before deadline and got an 85. Good times.
Didn’t you make an entire video about how history nerds are weird for demanding that movies be 100% historically accurate?
Sort of. Also one retracting that, and agreeing with Brandon.
@@EriktheRed2023 Yup, he changed his opinion. He and Brandon are now friends.
Yes, and that it is frustrating when miscnceptions about history, that shape modern thought, are reaffirmed. (I am barely paraphrasing his and Brandon F's understanding: th-cam.com/video/ObnpNVbZRV0/w-d-xo.html)
@@EriktheRed2023 I mean, it's true that a historical fiction doesn't need to be 100% historically accurate. That's an unrealistic goal.
@@minutemansam1214 Yes, but the point is you can uphold the spirit of historicity by avoiding stereotypes, misconceptions, and mischaracterizations.
15:16 my bad dude. Didn’t know you were filming and I needed a break
A lot of people felt intimidated by the raw muscular homoerotic masculinity in the film. Not me. I found it highly arousing I’m not ashamed to say
I wouldn't call it homoerotic. It shows muscles, but not from the viewpoint of men lusting over Amleth, but to emphasize Amleth as the stereotypical Viking warrior which in a way, is why he falls in the end. The stereotypical Viking warrior can't walk away while his father's killlers get away scot-free. He has to get revenge because that's what people with his character do.
That's because you're gay. Straight people didn't get that at all...
I strongly disagree with the stuff about the supernatural being fake. One of my favorite details of the film is how the supernatural, religious experience is always presented as a matter of perception. These ideas of Norse mythology were very real to the people who believed them, and they saw signs of the supernatural in every facet of their everyday life, just as religious people today do. You could've done a movie where Odin literally existed, sure, and that would've been cool, but to go a layer deeper and make a movie where Odin is real -to the characters- is fucking awesome.
I enjoyed the movie broadly way more than you did, but I do agree with the central idea that Amleth is not a particularly memorable or likable character. For me The Northman was less of a film and more of a trance. Just a fullbody emotional experience with those breathtaking visuals accompanied by the insane sound design rattling your bones in the theater, not to mention all the truly unhinged performances. The movie is gross, raw, disturbing, and beautiful in a way I don't think I've ever seen before. Movies aren't always about story and characters. Popular movies tend to be, but the medium of film is far broader than narrative structures made for mass appeal. Sometimes a movie is just about feeling, tone, and texture. I haven't seen it since then, but I'm guessing the experience is severely diminished on the small screen, and the flaws may be more exposed. That's probably why I'll never rewatch it, because I already got what I came for, and there's no replicating that kind of experience.
You know which character bothers me in this story? Fjölnir (evil uncle wife-stealer). Hear me out.
Fjölnir display several traits that would seem quizzical to Viking society. Aurvandill calls him a half-breed (hinting at a foregin ancestory similar to Gudrun’s). He’s willing to do slave-work to the chagrin of his son. And he uses statements such as “Evil begets evil,” which seems a strange thing to say in a might-makes-right culture. Not to mention his frequent icy stares and cool composure which contrasts heavily with Amleth’s berserker inhumanity.
Unlike Amleth... this guy really doesn't seem like a Viking (as the movie conceptualizes them). He's an "outsider" to this culture.
Having noticed this trend, I was expecting some sort of outsider-vs-Viking dynamic at the core of the Northman's theme. Remember Gudrun's backstory of going from captive-to-slave-to-concubine-to-wife? That plays into this trend as well. She's a enslaved concubine. Fjölnir is most likely the son of a enslaved concubine.
Amleth’s and Aurvandill’s warrior-aristocrat ethos gives them a brutes simpleminded understanding of the world. Might makes right -- we are the mighty. A ideology which ruins the lives of Gudrun and Fjölnir. Yet of course Gudrun and Fjölnir has also assimilated into this society (to some extent) being part of Viking culture while also victims of it. So we have an elite vs counter-elite dynamic going, with the counter-elite representing an sort of infiltration of Viking-society from outside forces, who both perpetuate it due to their trauma, yet also tries to subtly change its ethos (represented by Fjölnir’s un-Northman-like ethos). A sort of commentary on the consequences of Viking rapine.
Which Amleth -- ever the viking -- truly fucks up.
I fully expected that as the movie went on, Olga would be roped into this would-be dynamic as well, representing another “Outsider” who eventually clashes with Amleth’s aristocrat-mayhem as well. They build towards such a conflict when Amleth refuses to run away with her at the end. Yet instead of blossoming this thread seemed to dissipate whence the movie hit its final reels in favor of what we got, which left me feeling a bit lacking. Maybe this theme was some leftovers from an earlier script?
That was to much thinking for my taste. Let's all agree that what the Norseman REALLY lacked as a Viking film was a knife-throwing Irish ninja ala The Raven Flies, amirite!?
The idea of the ending is that the cycle of violence would not end until Amleth died and him running for love would be just him running away from his actions.
In Fjolnir, he created a carbon-copy of himself, a man with nothing left to lose. Him fighting Fjolnir is not him getting his revenge, but him fighting himself and dying alongside his revenge.
The vision with his daughter becoming (most probably) Olga of Kiev is not meant to show his revenge beared fruit, but that his family could prosper only with him dead and out of the picture not bringing his bagged with him. His redemption was him essentially denying himself of the please of living his life, so the violence would stop at him
The norse were not a "might makes right" society. They had a clear code of ethics and even despicable anti-heroes like Egill Skallagrimsson are depicted as helping the weak and defenseless. A lot of the times, the sagas don't even depict berserkers as heroes, but rather as villains that the hero defeats (like Egill does when he fights on behalf of a weaker, younger man)
Nice opinion you got there. Shame its WRONG
Love it
yeah, I just checked the based opinion database - his opinion wasn't found there, 0 entries, so its either in the wrong or cringe database. Gonna look there later.
Yeah well that's just your opinion.
Can you shut up?
I know a lot more about Germanic culture now than I did when I first watched this film and... yeah. You hit the nail on the head. I REALLY hope that Nosferatu is good.
Excellent video. I look forward to watching the rest of it once I stop replaying the first minute over and over.
dude he said he chose both but he chose revenge...he don't go back and have a happy ending.. ah man I like a lot of your stuff but I'm not with you on this one bro
@15:45 I disagree completely. I don't think any creator should have to worry about modern audiences sensibilities when making a period piece. A white nationalist could see a guy painting a fence white and think its some kind of subtle code for secret fealty to the cause, people will see what they want to see.
I detest when people feel the need to condescend with 'nazi bad' talk, it's obvious, treat me like an adult and not a child.
I counter this point but the fact that a large portion of people don't actually get the whole "Nazi bad" people forget what Nazism actually really means and entails and with how soviety is moving today peoppe do somewhat need to be reminded and perhaps "treat like children"
Most creators should definitely worry
Personally, I liked it. It seems many of the things you disliked I simply enjoyed. I liked the fact that we as an audience aren't outright told that the magical elements in the movie are real, instead leaving it up to our interpretation. I liked the depiction of berserkers and ulvhednar as brutal and nerve-stapled shock-troops. Also Professor Neil Price consulted on the film, and while a consultant won't have executive power, it is a very strong indicator that Eggers was interested in at least approaching certain aspects of norse society in as truthful a way as possible. Anyone who doesn't know who that is has no place talking about historical correctness vis a vis Viking age scandinavia or what we do or do not know about said period. The film had several extremely well researched things in it that frankly sold me on it, but they are so niche that I doubt many people will even notice them. The shaman with the decapitated head wearing and using items exclusively associated with women, for example.
Also the fact that nazis like something that they fundamentally do not understand is not a fair criticism, and you know it. If they understood the film they would absolutely hate it.
I really like and respect the work you do, but I mostly disagree with your takes here.
I respect your opinion but I disagree with it. You seem like you’re digging very deeply to find ways to dislike the movie and you are really hung up on the “angry revenge man” thing.
Honestly, seeing what was filmed in the behind the scenes footage and photos vs. what we saw.
I firmly believe the film we got is NOT what Eggers wanted. I remember reading leaks about test audiences not understanding the ending and it needed changes. But like, that's kind of the point of Eggers movies? In a first viewing, you probably won't get the ending. It's the beauty of his films. You see it again, paying attention to the deeper themes and the ending hits. This... doesn't really exist in The Northman, and with how Eggers sounds in the directors cut, he's clearly not happy with the changes he was likely forced to make to get this movie to theaters against test audiences.
my letterboxd review is just a quote about the film:
"Eggers and the studio worked together to find the most entertaining cut of the film."
I've definitely heard about this too. I do think the final cut works as-is. But this is definitely a case where something was compromised. Hopefully we'll learn more about what that first cut was in the future.
I wouldn't doubt that. I watched the RLM review and they complained about all characters looking too clean and too neatly dressed. Sometimes us history fans forget that most people actually still believe all those Victorian myths.
this feels like it is the case. But I suspect he would dislike it even more if Eggers got it his way. He doesn't seem to understand the fact that humans at different places and times are in fact different, but Eggers does. He only liked the witch because it is suffiently close to his own time and place.
As a female viewer, I actually did relate to Gertrude, ‘cause yeah if I was kidnapped and forced into a marriage to a man I hated I would also plot his murder and feel very little remorse over it. But the movie just isn’t interested in her story even though it’s way better than Amleth’s.
The story is literally based on the original Amleth, and Amleth is the POV character. We see most things from his perspective.
that was the true subversion that he somehow completly missed???? he complained about the movie not being "subversive" but had no comments on that scene
@@jcavs9847he might have just missed it. To be fair, I only saw it once when it first came out but if the mom plotting to secretly kill the uncle was a plot point, I do not remember that at all
You had me until you said her story is better, I came to watch vikings killing each other, not women seething while enjoying every mortal comfort afforded to them
I think Amleth is supposed to be a person stuck in his childhood because of the murder of his father, and his quest for revenge is childish and it's shown to be self-destructive. He tries to choose both revenge and love and that destroys him and leads him to the realization that he didn't understand anything to begin with. It's a tragedy.
This comment should be pinned. Atun totally misses this angle
I didn't think this movie as realistic viking portrait. I watched It as new version of Hamlet. Like the Richard III movie of 1995. Hamlet Is an angry revenge Man.
The fact that he made one of the most intentionally uncomfortable and awesome movies gives Andy an edge over most film reviewers. If he makes an adaptation of The Eddas I'll literally give plasma for a ticket if I have to
I disagree.
I think Amleth is a deeper character then you give him credit for. There's A softness in him that only shown in ways his society will allow him. He doesn't participate in the rape on women because the thought he saw his mom get takin by force. the scene in at the springs with Anya's character he was so gentle a quet. Like a child that never really got a chance to grow past all the hardness. Never got a chance to have the moments his father had. To slime and express pride for his children have those quiet moments with his wife. He lived a hard savage life and never got to have the good parts. Even the good parts where selling slaves and raping women. He had a hard life and a hard end. And I DO think there is a real cents of tragedy the end he looks so tired his voice is horse from all the screaming. He is spent and I was actually really happy to see him receave one more moment of gentleness.
And I do think that there IS a very real ark to his character. Correct me if Im wrong but after the baot scene with Anya's character the word revenge is never spoken again. He didn't kill fjolnir to get revenge he did it to protect his family. He doesn't even mention his father again. When his uncle says " I will meet you at the gates of hel and there you will die at the hand the killed you father. He can't even be bothers to react he's just so over it at this point.
At the end when he's banging on the shield and doing his chant it feels empty. Like he's just going through the motions. Yeah I guess it would habe been neat if he just shrugged of his revenge and "subverted everyone expectations" or what erver but its a tragedy it was stated fro the beging "your fate is set and you can not escape it" he can't change what he's going to do. He can only change why he's going to do it.
Have you read Vinland Saga? Cause I think you'd like Vinland Saga.
The anime?
@@adrianseanheidmann4559the manga
(you read manga and watch anime) I haven't actually watched the anime btw so it could be good for all I know, but the manga is great
@@adrianseanheidmann4559 The manga
The thing about Vikings is that there's so many hints that there was more going on with them. Like everybody talks about dying in battle and going to Valhalla when there are records of Vikings making tactical retreats all the time and that suggests that like with all beliefs, there's a gap between belief and praxis. Like there are records of Vikings believing in Folkvangr which is basically an afterlife for people who don't die in battle and the idea of this notion suggests that different societies had different views.
The problem with Norse Myth is that all we have of it is Snorri Sturlusson and the Poetic Edda, and that's not Homer, the grand poet whose one idea was universally accepted, or accepted by a wide enough section of society to become consensus. It's basically just a smattering of something and likely not the full myths as it might have been widely embraced and seen across the breadth of Scandinavian cultures. Like there are gods like Ullr who seems to be a big deal but we don't have any stories about him.
Folkvangr is the afterlife for people who die in battle. As is Valhalla. There was an agreement between Odin and Freyja, each getting half of those slain in battle. Hel is the Norse afterlife for everyone who didn't die in battle.
What's the difference between the word "praxis" and "practice"?
The way you describe the character-writing shortfall of Amleth reminds me of Stonewall Jackson's lack of depth in Gods and Generals
Stoic use of language was an important part of Norse culture of the time, not growling your feelings at the top of your lungs. Poets were high status people, but while their poetry were intricate it was still terse. As if this was the most true to life Viking-movie - bah! When the Raven Flies (Hrafninn Flygur) and Shadow of the Raven (I Skugga Hrafnsins) are so much better, and truer to the terse language.
@@KitagumaIgen Somehow Raven Flies has a knife-throwing Irish ninja as its protagonist and still it manages to be the most authentic Viking movie.
@@DesignatedMember yeah!? (He might not technically be a ninja, but you're not wrong.)
That's what I like about 'The 13th Warrior'. Accurate - no - but some of the dialoge was brilliant, such as when Ahmed is given a sword.
Ahmed: "I cannot wield this."
Herger: "Grow stronger."
or when he cuts it down to make a scimitar (something I dont think could have been done but meh.)
Weath: "When you die, can I give that to my daughter?"
Not an accurate film by any stretch of the imagination but an entertaining one nonetheless.
Robert Eggers, if you are reading this, I liked The Northman very much.
This is a retelling of a classic tale. It’s not an original story. It sounds like you wanted a different movie than he was making.
The clips that exist of the film before they removed all the color look awesome
Underrated comment.
@@pdxcorgidad underrated username pdxbostonterrierdad here
As a Northman hater Im actually kinda glad for this review, as it made me realize this what Vinland Saga would have turned into had the mangaka kept pushing the "man too angry to die" trope with Thorfinn, which allot of fans of the first season were very disappointed with the main characters change in tone lol.
Highly recomend Vinland Saga btw, even if you're not a anime guy, its still full of your typical action hero physics but under the surface theres something much deeper in the way the characters are written, especially in the second season and on.
I love stories with complicated characters that act, look, and feel like real people, but not all films need to be like that.
For me, the spectacle of this film, the way it transports you to this world of the vikings (at least as depicted by the dubious historicity of the sagas), the cinematography, and sorta operatic vibe of the story were enough for me to love this film.
As an alternative example, I'm a huge christopher nolan fan, and he's directed some of my favorite films. Nevertheless, while a lot of his characters may be facinating and compelling, I would say that most of them are characters at their core, are often a little one dimensional, and don't come off as entirely authentic/realistic human beings. But that's never stopped me from absolutely loving his work.
How many sagas have you actually read? The biggest problem with this movie is that it does NOT depict the "world of the vikings" as the sagas do. Instead, they chose to base the story on Saxo Grammaticus, a continental historian who wrote in Latin.
Oh no...I can hear a particular subset of this movie's fans coming to strike. I liked the film but understand why anyone would find it less than good
Let the chuds fight with Andy-fanatics, the rest of us can have a civil discussion.
Amleth doesnt choose "both" at the end of the movie. He chooses revenge and dies. Hes lying to himself and anya's character when he says that. You entirely missed this because it wasnt spelled out for you and then critiqued it for lacking the very depth you missed.
Even though this was my least favourite Robert Eggars movie, I still think I this movie is amazing. And Eggars is still my favourite film director.
I can’t wait for Nosferatu this year.
Happy Leif Erikson Day! It snuck up on me again. The comparisons had me howling, especially the many reference to Monty Python's Holy Grail. That sound track swap at the end killed me like a footman before Lancelot. Bravo!
14:00 I still remember the QnA where he said he doesn't know what that means. I already didn't believe him then.
Just because you didnt do your job as an audience and read between the lines and pick up on the subtext, doesnt mean it doesnt have any. Not everything needs to be spelled out explicitly in exposition.
"The customer is always right" applied to movies is one of the worst aspects of online movie discourse.
First off- your intro is hilarious. Always great to see another video from you! As for the criticism -You approached The Northman expecting a Viking-Age version of The Witch. I honestly think that's the wrong approach. IMO, The Northman is Eggers' version of Conan The Barbarian (1982). The Northman is not meant to be historically accurate, it is an operatic sword-and-sorcery epic whose marketing overemphasized historical accuracy to appeal to Eggers' fans. "What's he known for? Historical accuracy? Yeah, lean into that!" During The Northman press tour, Eggers openly spoke in interviews about his love for the '82 Conan, and even said that he avoided re-watching the movie while he was writing the Northman to avoid outright copying it.
When the voiceover started, the drums kicked in, all to a visual of powerful light in the darkness, it immediately clicked for me "Oh snap, he's doing Conan." It's hardly an original observation, you'll find plenty of articles online that go into detail about the similarities between The Northman and Conan that go beyond the usual Campbellian story beats and Amleth/Hamlet allusions. Don't think of it as a period-accurate historical piece, think of it as a melodramatic fantasy wrapped up in Eggers' style.
You're reminding me just how awesome the soundtrack to MPatHG is. And just how straight it was played, adding to the hilarity, of course.
i really just needed him to stop pulling back the cool supernatural shit. literally every time the movie threatened to get interesting or actually cool in a non-superficial way it was a trick
I think ever since the success of shutter island I see a lot of film makers doing the “it was just their imagination or that they’re crazy” thing and I need for directors to understand that it’s the thriller equivalent to “it was all a dream.”
It's true that he made it too obvious that the mythological elements of the movie were "all in his head" in some scenes. But if the mythological elements had any more influence on the story, it would probably make it worse.
@@jcavs9847 it probably couldn't have gotten any worse for me
"i really just needed him to stop pulling back the cool supernatural shit. " Bro... it's a SAGA type of story, there fot to be supernatural shit in it, also stuff where it's not obvious if the supernatural exists or people just believe in it's powers.
@@adrianseanheidmann4559norse legends are full of explicitly supernatural things. why wouldn't i be upset about all of them being played off a dumb dude's dumb brain?
Honestly, I don’t really think about the Northman in terms of modern, nuanced character writing and realism. I view this piece as a modern Shakespearean tragedy.
I don’t analyze Macbeth and think “aw man, kind of shit that he didn’t make the Good Choices” “he isn’t acting very realistically” “not a very nuanced character”. All those things are true, but I don’t view them as valid criticisms in light of what the story is. It’s just not that kind of story.
problem is that we aren't living in the age of Shakespeare and frankly those old Shakespearean stories had far more nuance and deep writing then you give them credit for and definitely more then what the northman is able to handle.
if you wanna watch Hamlet then go watch Hamlet not make a fake Hamlet movie for those annoying people who dont shut up about the vikings tv show
@@joedatius Who are you and why does your opinion matter?
@@mikeity2009 could ask the same thing about literally every comment in here.
piss off if you cant respect others opinions
not sure if this has been said by someone else but for me, the village raid was meant to be a horrific thing and the continuous shot highlighted the blood-chilling nightmare of it all by being like "okay wow we're still going." like everything is happening in real time and from a single perspective and we're following this guy as he just kills a bunch of people and we can't escape, much like the villagers.
i agree with most of this but 12:50
there's really a lack of interestingly shot combat scenes in general. id rather see something like this than generic up close shakey cam moving around to the point where i can't even see the combat anymore. i don't know if that's what you were getting at but it kind of sounded like it and i was like damn.....
I personally think this movie succeeded spectacularly at the thing it was trying to emulate, which is the Icelandic sagas. I believe 100% that if you got a medieval Icelandic saga author to produce a movie, he would produce this.
Almost every criticism you can give this is something you can write of the Icelandic sagas as well. You say they often have pathos and tragedy but just as often they don’t! Where is Egill Skallagrimson’s moment of pathos? When does Eirik the Red ever stop to consider whether he should murder another person? I just frankly don’t see it. In the Volsunga saga, no one ever stops to meditate on all the murdering they do. The dialogue also matches quite well onto the sagas, frankly, I’m starting to doubt you have ever actually read any of the sagas. Characters talk like that all the time! I know the Volsunga saga is a fornaldarsaga and not a Íslendinga saga, but still, it has loads of dialogue about that! “því at eitt sinn skal hverr deyja ok má engi undan komask at deyja um sinn.” (For one time, each man shall die and none escape before their time”) Admittedly though, there is a bit too much shouting going on. I agree the dialogue could be a bit more understated.
This movie perfectly encapsulates the themes and motifs of the Icelandic sagas, if you ask me. With the sole exception maybe of Amleth’s Oedipus complex
Really liked Jackson Crawford's take. Very like a saga, except that the protagonist is extremely lacking in Soliloquy.
And before anyone beats me up that is a very paraphrased statement. He had real criticisms himself, and I don't speak for the guy.
I understand the points you're making and can definitely understand why people would not be satisfied with the movie. However, I want to defend the movie a bit because I like it so much I've actually incorporated it into the Norse myth section of my mythology class.
You may have read a different translation than I use but I really do feel that this movie captures the atmosphere and attitudes shown in at least some of the sagas. In particular an early section of the Saga of Volsungs where Sigmund is living in the woods and planning his revenge for the death of his father and brothers. Sigmund is absolutely brutal revenge man during this portion of the story. He and his son turn into wolves and feast on humans in the land of his enemies. He works with his sister to kill her own children because they were also the children of the man who killed their family. Its brutal and horrific by modern standards and does fit many of the later tropes that pop up around Viking stuff.
I definitely agree that the movie does not work as a retelling of Amleth. I actually wonder if they wanted to tell a different story but the studio wanted a recognizable retelling.
Thanks for articulating how this movie made me feel. I am of Danish ancestry, my grandparents were immigrants from Denmark. I grew up on these tales and I always found the bloody screaming axe wielding maniac so wrong and yet so hard to push back against that image. Most of the hero stories I was told were like boyhood tales of adventure with little in the way of fighting let alone blood and gore.
Didn't expect an Esoterica reference.
I love your content and I normally agree with your movie review but I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one.
I can't word a response as eloquently as you but all I'll say is I thought this movie was a very good revenge movie. The Viking aesthetic was really cool but honestly the historical inaccuracies of the depictions of Vikings didn't bother me all that much. Amelth grew up to be a very hateful person who is filled with rage and he's also a viking, I don't think Eggers was trying to say all vikings were necessarily like that.
I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way but your review kinda sounds like you had a very specific idea of what this movie should've been and you were disappointed that it didn't match what you expected. That same thing happens to me and my friends at times and I think that mindset leads people to be overly critical of films that they otherwise would enjoy.
Rob, if you're reading this, don't listen to this guy. He doesn't grasp your true vision for the Northman. Oh, and Happy Leif Erikson Day.
The Northman is actually my favorite of your films-- it's a viscerally realistic nightmare that reveals the Victorian/Hollywood Viking hero-cult as the true horror-show that it is. What Mr. Shei here doesn't seem to understand is that the battle scene establishing adult Amleth is not supposed to be a fun action sequence, but a war-journalist's documentary of an ancient scene of needless brutality. Hence the oner.
You had no interest in portraying Norse culture positively. You were focusing on its violent aspects, a violence that is seeded in Amleth even by the father that he avenges. When given the chance to choose a different kind of life with Anya's character, of choosing between love and revenge, he chooses "both:" i.e. he chooses revenge, because revenge is (tragically) inseparable from love for him.
That his uncle lives in remote Iceland as a mere sheep-farmer underlines the fact that he would not be a threat to Amleth and his future family in any way. His revenge is unnecessary and freely chosen. And pursuing it leads to dark revelations about nature of the family that he was raised in. Rather than break out of the cycle, he embraces it. That's why the final battle at Mt. Doom is strangely unsatisfying: it's an ugly descent into the darkness of toxic male-on-male rage.
So have a nice mead on Leif Erikson Day, Rob. Don't let this silly TH-cam man get you down.
Differing opinions are good. They entice conversation. He should totally listen to him; that's the whole point of art.
@@MyUsualComment You're absolutely right. I'm just being absurd. Point was just to share my take. Andy's critiques are very sensible but I have reasons why I like the choices Eggers made. I don't actually think Eggers is reading the comments (hopefully he gives the video a watch) but it would be nice 😅
There is a comedy series based on the viking era, with a lot of Scandinavian actors and very high production values that you would likely greatly enjoy, But I can't seem to find a link to it. Its quite recent, might even still be in production. Damn. The viewpoint characters are two captives, one of whom is some sort of failed theatre kid, and the son of the chief who is gay and submissive rather than being a great warrior and into raping and senseless violence, and is drawn to the theatre guys plans to create a theatre in the village. The whole thing is fractally weird, and wonderful.
.It's kind of like Mel Brooks on a longship, in many ways.
A friend recommended that show. Think it's called Norsemen
I wish more movies reviews could be summed up with "This movie wasn't for me". I feel like half the critics on youtube need to learn that phrase instead of getting angry about the fact they've gotten old and movies aren't being made for them anymore...
On the other hand, some movie makers like to use the phrase "not meant for you" to excuse away any criticism. Granted, there are indeed movies not made for me. Barbie for instance. Such movies are usually well crafted enough though to attract who they are meant for. Other movies on the other hand, look like they were just meant to please the director and his/her immediate family. They usually fail on cinematic levels too numerous to mention.
I like your jab at Critical Drinker.
Funny that Alexander Skarsgard also played a character called “Eric Northman”
I don't have a remotely sophisticated review of this film, I just didn't find it enjoyable because I didn't care what happened to anyone. It was hard to follow and I didn't connect with anyone's motivations.
Was confused by The Northman. Reminded me of Valhalla Rising, which I think I prefer. After reading some of the comments I think I missed some points and could do with re-watching it to see more of the subtleties. However, I don't think I want to watch it again. My simplistic take on it was childhood trauma and the destructive nature of revenge; and maybe also cultural indoctrination. However, you don't (always) watch a film for edification. I enjoyed The 13th Warrior very much and have watched it several times. I don't know how much it got right historically and really don't have time to discuss what it got wrong - Vikings vs Neanderthals!
crying myself to sleep now while watching this
You good?
I would argue the one shot village raid scene was to demonstrate the intensity of his focus when his ire is up, which is central to his actions for the rest of the film. Though chaos reigns around him, his focus never waivers until his aim is achieved
If you look over there, you'll see two naked guys fighting in a volcano.
Oh man this is so unexpected and exciting!! I wanted to like this movie when I started into it and came out the other side thinking much the same as you. I really love your Ravenous videos and think you have a lot of fantastically insightful, thoughtful, and above all well-researched stuff to say about movies and would love to see more movie (constructive) critiques from your perspective. Also, your de-bunking yourself and crossover videos with youtubers you criticized in the past are incredibly heartwarming and make me feel better about humanity.
Subverting the Viking revenge tale and making it about breaking the cycle of violence? Hmmm... Sounds like a Vinland Saga video would be a great idea
Isn't breaking the cycle of violence just forgiveness ? Seems too Christian and even unjust
We need a Viking revenge tale that is just about collecting the appropriate weregild and then moving on
Definitely one of the best pieces of movie criticism I've ever seen. More stuff should be done in this sincere, direct, personal way.
Why would he repent Amleth? That's the entire point of the character to choose revenge instead of love.
Umm, a counterpoint: "I AM AMLETH THE BEAR-WOLF! SON! OF KING AURVANDILL THE WAR RAVEN! AND I! AM! HIS! VEEEEEENGEEEEEEENCE!
Ok, in all seriousness, I see this as both the most and least accurite viking movie simultaneously. Likely the closest to how the worst of the vikings saw themselves, much as the worst of our society see themselves in it.
The call backs to Holy Grail were a nice touch. Loved the audio of (I assume) Lancelots rampage through the swamp castle? lol either way, good shit and critique.
Now it makes me wonder would you do a review on the Viking series next year.
@@DerMannDerSeineMutterwar the first 4 seasons are pretty good
@@DerMannDerSeineMutterwarbro, you can be a thoraboo all you want, but lying just makes you look childish
As much as I love The Norseman as visual spectacle, I have to agree with your take on Amleth's character. I wish the film had taken a turn similar to Hrafnkels Saga, where the main character starts as a angry revenge man, but through the course of the story realises that it's not a healthy/good way to live. Plus Hrafnkels Saga is a (debatably) accurate representation of how law, violence, and revenge were actually included in 10th century Iceland.
I dunno, my Irish and Lowland Scots ancestors were constantly raided and pillaged by the Norse for centuries, and many of them were sold into slavery. I think the depiction of Vikings in that way might be accurate to how they were perceived by their victims. If I watched a movie about European colonizers being noble and heroic, I would raise my eyebrow and wonder what the perspective of the colonized would be.
That's like, your opinion man
I just recently discovered both you and esoterica and I had NO IDEA you guys made stuff together!!! Guess I have some catching up to do!! Love both your guys content!!
This movie had some really cool scenes stitched together by a meh main plot. The ball game scene and the berserker attack particularly were amazing.
HE LEARNED WHAT ANARCHO-SYNDICALISM IS