Well, first, I have to say I’m quite happy I didn’t get a plug-in, which was my first intention, but got a regular hybrid black edition 😅 Now what I don’t understand: the vehicle seems to perform far worse with trail mode as opposed to normal mode. But in real life, Trailmode has saved me several times two of them quite noticeable. First one I got stuck on a very steep incline, about 4-5m high which I had to traverse diagonally so that 2 wheels lost contact. Even with rolling back and taking a bit of momentum normal mode wouldn’t get me anywhere. But in trail mode, it started to rumble a bit when I reached the point where I couldn’t get on in normal mode and without any more effort I could just drive up. Second one was on a modest incline, but it was grass on sand and below that was this very slippery mud and it had been raining for 2 to 3 days. Again in normal mode I just got stuck. The incline was rather long so momentum wouldn’t take me anywhere either but putting it in Trailmode and then flooring it got me across even. Even with flooring it speed wasn’t more than like 5 to 10 km/h, but I got up the incline Oh, I forgot to mention I do not run it on the stock tires. They were absolutely useless off-road. I use Michelin cross climate suv which is already a major improvement because they at least have some grip on loose ground and I’m going to go for AT tires soon which will improve matters even more. I found the RAV4 in real life is by far more capable than one would think from looking at your videos…… but I still love your videos, and the work you put in, thank you!
Thank you for sharing your experience! Actually your description fits the result of the test, Trail Mode is doing good job on lateral or diagonal obstacles. I don't know why it limited the single axle power in Plug-in version, I can only guess that it based on torque balance and that's the reason. Thank you!
hi why didnt you get the phev. ? what did i miss please let me know as kind of considering one, ah sorry i think i get it , so the first car is the new phev and cant get off the 2 wheel rollers !! let alone the 4 wheel
Extremely disappointed! It seems the electric only rear axle not being mechanically connected is a big liability. Toyota really should be using at least limited slip front differentials
Test na uniesionych rolkach odpowiada sytuacji, gdy ruszając na śliskim, musimy pokonać lekką muldę lub krawężnik. Czyli silnik musi być wstanie przekazać dostateczny moment na przyczepne koło -- co bez blokady dyfra lub międzyosiowej (zależnie od układu rolek) często jest praktycznie niemożliwe. Dobrze kombinuję?
W sumie to bardzo dobre porównanie 👍 Przy czym w tym przypadku nie ma możliwości blokady międzyosiowej, bo osie napędzane są niezależnie, natomiast pomiędzy lewą a prawą stroną działa kontrola trakcji.
Toyota hybrids are the best hybrids of all makes but at the same time the weakest awd cars. The fwd Toyota hybrids actually are much better in certainty situations like one side of the car get stuck the TC helps to lock the wheel without traction so the other wheel with traction can move the car. I don’t know why it’s not happening easily with the awd versions. The awd Toyota hybrids are great and the system works when you don’t need it and it will fail you when you most need it. 🤷
I was about to order RAV4 Plugin in exchange for my currently used Hyundai Santa FE III, But it looks like this Toyota rear electric motor is not up to the task. Could you please test Mazda CX60 3.3 diesel AWD in near future?
That depends where you plan to drive. For everyday driving, including winter, RAV4 will do very well. For harder tasks it may not be the best. When it comes to Mazda - If we only find a volunteer...
I don't like iAWD systems. No matter how you slice it, an e-axle will never send 100% system power to the needed axle. Rivian, Tesla, Hummer EV...none of them will ever put down as much power to a given wheel as a similarly sized single motor and a mechanical coupling.
Saw a video the other day of someone trying to offroad a rav4 plugin hybrid 25 meters across a field. Needless to say they got stuck and then really really stuck.
@@kazimierzwrona727Very nice video, RAV4 is doing fine, however there's quite a lot of situations where rear axle kind of hesitates. Keeping momentum is the clue.
That’s actually not the fault of the RAV4. I have seen this happen even to Mercedes G and other very capable off roaders nowadays. This is due to the fact that a lot of companies nowadays think SUVs and off-roaders are racing cars and need street (racing) tires. They put almost slicks on those cars with no thread across the tire whatsoever which means you have absolutely no grip on any slippery surface and a field, especially if it’s grass and it’s wet can be slippery like ice. My family owns a few vineyards, and I can tell you there are very steep roads going up there some of them not paved, and the RAV4 takes them quite well.
Apparently it doesn't let me link it. Although tyres make a huge difference. The rear end in this case could not muster the tourqe to keep it moving. It just kept flailing its front wheels while the rear had much better potential to put the power to the ground. Now that is the fault of the rav4's drive train configuration in this case. And also the driver being a knob and not keeping the momentum.
Exactly, that's was really unexpected and I do not find the reason why it's tuned like that, is it based on torque balance or is it that focused on brakes intervention on front axle to put majority of power to it...
Jest na naszym kanale kilka testów Yarisa, także porównanie wyników testu z realnymi warunkami, a na Facebooku pisaliśmy kilka razy o aspektach technicznych tego napędu. W największym skrócie - tylna oś napędzana jest silnikiem elektrycznym o mocy 5 koni.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Dzieki a czy mozecie zrobic test Ssang-Yonga Korrando 4x4, bo kosztowo wygląda interesująco np wyprzedazy 2023 jeszcze mozna wziąć za 120KPLN wersje 4x4 163KM Turbo benzyna w automacie!
Isn’t it the torque that matters? (Not bad - 52Nm on the back motor for the Yaris Cross for example, even though it’s 5HP, as being electric it’s 100% torque from 1RPM, with the system meant to be a low-speed extra-torque traction aid). Both cars seem to have owners who like and trust them in varied real-world conditions, but yet they seem poor in these tests. Have even seen two videos of the 2WD Yaris Cross where it does surprisingly well in real-world challenging conditions - one in snow, one on an off-road course. Trying to figure it out
@@cjclark8497 It isn't true that 100% torque is available from 1 rpm. Electric engines just like ICE, also have different torque at different rpm. It's just more flat. Rear axle of Yaris has the ability of applying over 500 Nm through the gearing but it's a peak. Starting torque is too low.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollersok, that’s interesting. Had seen that in a review hence mentioning it. Wonder what difference the new 2024 engine tuning with 30% torque boost makes (in UK / Europe - not sure if the engine options might be different elsewhere). Thanks for the reply.
@@cjclark8497 That's a common mistake about electric motors, here's more details: www.engineeringtoolbox.com/electrical-motors-torques-d_651.html For the new version (130 hp), rear electric motor is the same.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers That might be it then, simply not enough power and torque to get the car off the rollers. If that should be enough power, then maybe it's the control system that limits the power for reliability.
Just seems like the hybrid awd systems are bad. The normal gas awd that Toyota makes is pretty good. And I bet the electric brz4 or whatever its called would be good too. But for some reason the gas and electric don't mix.
Toyota is using a separate motor for the rear two wheels; this isn’t the norm. Some manufacturers make hybrids with traditional setups so they work better in low traction situations than these did.
Well, the ones with strong electric rear motors are doing fine in snow etc., not the best but acceptable. But the ones like Yaris with 5 hp rear motor... Check this out: th-cam.com/video/oIaqkuVuXtg/w-d-xo.html
@@dinkata2005 I've driven the 308 plug-in, the 3008 PHEV and that DS7 e-tense. And i know other people who drove them too. All of us got very bad fuel economy when the battery is empty. They are very inefficient. Some non-hybrid cars get better fuel consumption than those. And there are hybrids that are a lot more efficient. A LOT !!! And I didn't even talk about their engines which are pretty crappy. But that's another topic.
Toyota is using a separate motor for the rear two wheels; this isn’t the norm. Some manufacturers make hybrids with traditional setups so they work better in low traction situations than these did.
For those people that think this is not good, remember, testing on rollers, where the grip is literary 0 is a situation that can never occur in real life. Even pure ice, like on a frozen lake has more grip than on rollers. Even a 2WD vehicle with good tires will move on pure ice. This type of test is an exaggeration that will never happen. All of the vehicles actually do a much better job in real driving conditions than on rollers.
Rollers under load are not 0 grip, they do have some resistance, much more than wheel in the air, which is mentioned by manufacturers in descriptions of certain modes.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers And yet, the car is not moving if you put all driven wheels on rollers... so the grip is 0, there is no movement...if there were even 0.1% grip the car will move...
I’m glad you’ve pointed that out to the channel. For everyday use I’ve had no problem with my RAV4 Adventure Hybrid. I mean would you buy this vehicle for pure 4x4 adventure driving. Obviously not. There’s many expert channels doing these comprehensive tests in the real world. Cheers.
@@johnmartin7158 As I mentioned - rollers have much more resistance than wheels in the air. Wheels in the air are mentioned by Toyota in their descriptions of Trail mode, not by our channel. Doesn't it suggest to go for at least light offroad? Bedsides - I haven't seen any expert channel claiming that AWD-i is more capable than DTV or ATS. The same conclusions come from roller tests.
Sad to see that toyota intentionally doesn't implement electronic limited slip differential in these vehicles, this is just a marketing 😢. No any additional hardware required, just proper programming. I'd suggest when you change the drive modes and if all are failed, at a final stage use manual braking method to simulate eLSD. It is pretty easy to do in practice, so it would be nice to sea this method in your future videos.
Trail mode simulates limited slip differentials very well. Manual braking may be a problem cause majority of modern cars have brake priority over acceleration pedal.
Sadly the programing is also terrible they should apply way more break force on the overspeeding wheel And it seems to get worse with time not better 2020vs2023 The earlier generation had a power problem like the Yaris
@@willb9259 So it's doing fine. Toyota reprogrammed the awd system in 2021 but I don't know if they applied it only to new cars or updated the older ones as well.
Well, first, I have to say I’m quite happy I didn’t get a plug-in, which was my first intention, but got a regular hybrid black edition 😅
Now what I don’t understand: the vehicle seems to perform far worse with trail mode as opposed to normal mode. But in real life, Trailmode has saved me several times two of them quite noticeable.
First one I got stuck on a very steep incline, about 4-5m high which I had to traverse diagonally so that 2 wheels lost contact.
Even with rolling back and taking a bit of momentum normal mode wouldn’t get me anywhere. But in trail mode, it started to rumble a bit when I reached the point where I couldn’t get on in normal mode and without any more effort I could just drive up.
Second one was on a modest incline, but it was grass on sand and below that was this very slippery mud and it had been raining for 2 to 3 days. Again in normal mode I just got stuck. The incline was rather long so momentum wouldn’t take me anywhere either but putting it in Trailmode and then flooring it got me across even. Even with flooring it speed wasn’t more than like 5 to 10 km/h, but I got up the incline
Oh, I forgot to mention I do not run it on the stock tires. They were absolutely useless off-road. I use Michelin cross climate suv which is already a major improvement because they at least have some grip on loose ground and I’m going to go for AT tires soon which will improve matters even more. I found the RAV4 in real life is by far more capable than one would think from looking at your videos…… but I still love your videos, and the work you put in, thank you!
Thank you for sharing your experience! Actually your description fits the result of the test, Trail Mode is doing good job on lateral or diagonal obstacles. I don't know why it limited the single axle power in Plug-in version, I can only guess that it based on torque balance and that's the reason. Thank you!
hi why didnt you get the phev. ? what did i miss please let me know as kind of considering one, ah sorry i think i get it , so the first car is the new phev and cant get off the 2 wheel rollers !! let alone the 4 wheel
Extremely disappointed! It seems the electric only rear axle not being mechanically connected is a big liability. Toyota really should be using at least limited slip front differentials
I would like to watch test Toyota prado! 4Runner and fortuner
Test na uniesionych rolkach odpowiada sytuacji, gdy ruszając na śliskim, musimy pokonać lekką muldę lub krawężnik. Czyli silnik musi być wstanie przekazać dostateczny moment na przyczepne koło -- co bez blokady dyfra lub międzyosiowej (zależnie od układu rolek) często jest praktycznie niemożliwe. Dobrze kombinuję?
W sumie to bardzo dobre porównanie 👍 Przy czym w tym przypadku nie ma możliwości blokady międzyosiowej, bo osie napędzane są niezależnie, natomiast pomiędzy lewą a prawą stroną działa kontrola trakcji.
Toyota hybrids are the best hybrids of all makes but at the same time the weakest awd cars. The fwd Toyota hybrids actually are much better in certainty situations like one side of the car get stuck the TC helps to lock the wheel without traction so the other wheel with traction can move the car. I don’t know why it’s not happening easily with the awd versions. The awd Toyota hybrids are great and the system works when you don’t need it and it will fail you when you most need it. 🤷
I was about to order RAV4 Plugin in exchange for my currently used Hyundai Santa FE III, But it looks like this Toyota rear electric motor is not up to the task.
Could you please test Mazda CX60 3.3 diesel AWD in near future?
That depends where you plan to drive. For everyday driving, including winter, RAV4 will do very well. For harder tasks it may not be the best. When it comes to Mazda - If we only find a volunteer...
I don't like iAWD systems. No matter how you slice it, an e-axle will never send 100% system power to the needed axle. Rivian, Tesla, Hummer EV...none of them will ever put down as much power to a given wheel as a similarly sized single motor and a mechanical coupling.
Saw a video the other day of someone trying to offroad a rav4 plugin hybrid 25 meters across a field. Needless to say they got stuck and then really really stuck.
Can you link it?
I have found a different video.
th-cam.com/video/hJRwNF_qqVs/w-d-xo.html
@@kazimierzwrona727Very nice video, RAV4 is doing fine, however there's quite a lot of situations where rear axle kind of hesitates. Keeping momentum is the clue.
That’s actually not the fault of the RAV4. I have seen this happen even to Mercedes G and other very capable off roaders nowadays. This is due to the fact that a lot of companies nowadays think SUVs and off-roaders are racing cars and need street (racing) tires. They put almost slicks on those cars with no thread across the tire whatsoever which means you have absolutely no grip on any slippery surface and a field, especially if it’s grass and it’s wet can be slippery like ice. My family owns a few vineyards, and I can tell you there are very steep roads going up there some of them not paved, and the RAV4 takes them quite well.
Apparently it doesn't let me link it. Although tyres make a huge difference. The rear end in this case could not muster the tourqe to keep it moving. It just kept flailing its front wheels while the rear had much better potential to put the power to the ground.
Now that is the fault of the rav4's drive train configuration in this case. And also the driver being a knob and not keeping the momentum.
AWD-I IS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE HAHAH
Toyota i-AWD being the joke it always has been. :D
There are other videos with toyota hybrid awd models on less "aggresive" rollers and they do well.
On flatter rollers they do better for sure, easier task.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers So the system does the job of distributing the power, but is a bit soft.
Czy kupujący samochód z napędem AWD-i ma prawo czuć się rozczarowanym? 🤔
Zależy, w którym modelu.
This is already not a great result... But now... Is this a joke? Have they got the mode selection switch on the wrong side?
Exactly, that's was really unexpected and I do not find the reason why it's tuned like that, is it based on torque balance or is it that focused on brakes intervention on front axle to put majority of power to it...
Co za porażka, miałem kupić żonie Yarisa cross po liftingu właśnie z napędem AWD i tutaj widzimy że to jakiś syf i atrapa a nie napęd na cztery koła?
Jest na naszym kanale kilka testów Yarisa, także porównanie wyników testu z realnymi warunkami, a na Facebooku pisaliśmy kilka razy o aspektach technicznych tego napędu. W największym skrócie - tylna oś napędzana jest silnikiem elektrycznym o mocy 5 koni.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Dzieki a czy mozecie zrobic test Ssang-Yonga Korrando 4x4, bo kosztowo wygląda interesująco np wyprzedazy 2023 jeszcze mozna wziąć za 120KPLN wersje 4x4 163KM Turbo benzyna w automacie!
@@JohnDoe-o5v Jeśli tylko trafi się ochotnik, to zrobimy 🙂
Isn’t it the torque that matters? (Not bad - 52Nm on the back motor for the Yaris Cross for example, even though it’s 5HP, as being electric it’s 100% torque from 1RPM, with the system meant to be a low-speed extra-torque traction aid). Both cars seem to have owners who like and trust them in varied real-world conditions, but yet they seem poor in these tests. Have even seen two videos of the 2WD Yaris Cross where it does surprisingly well in real-world challenging conditions - one in snow, one on an off-road course. Trying to figure it out
@@cjclark8497 It isn't true that 100% torque is available from 1 rpm. Electric engines just like ICE, also have different torque at different rpm. It's just more flat. Rear axle of Yaris has the ability of applying over 500 Nm through the gearing but it's a peak. Starting torque is too low.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollersok, that’s interesting. Had seen that in a review hence mentioning it. Wonder what difference the new 2024 engine tuning with 30% torque boost makes (in UK / Europe - not sure if the engine options might be different elsewhere). Thanks for the reply.
@@cjclark8497 That's a common mistake about electric motors, here's more details: www.engineeringtoolbox.com/electrical-motors-torques-d_651.html
For the new version (130 hp), rear electric motor is the same.
How does this compare to the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV?
We didn't test any new one. Older ones were pretty bad.
Is it the electric motors that are weak?
Rear motor in Rav4 is 54 hp, in Yaris Cross it's 5 hp.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers That might be it then, simply not enough power and torque to get the car off the rollers. If that should be enough power, then maybe it's the control system that limits the power for reliability.
Just seems like the hybrid awd systems are bad. The normal gas awd that Toyota makes is pretty good. And I bet the electric brz4 or whatever its called would be good too. But for some reason the gas and electric don't mix.
Toyota is using a separate motor for the rear two wheels; this isn’t the norm. Some manufacturers make hybrids with traditional setups so they work better in low traction situations than these did.
Thank you. People should know how rubish these "electric rear drive" cars all about. Pure marketing and 0 real usage
Well, the ones with strong electric rear motors are doing fine in snow etc., not the best but acceptable. But the ones like Yaris with 5 hp rear motor... Check this out: th-cam.com/video/oIaqkuVuXtg/w-d-xo.html
LOL I told you soo 😅Outlander PHEV out performs them all.
Peugeot's HYbrid4 is an even better e-AWD system.
@@dinkata2005 peugeot hybrids are pretty bad and inefficient.
Outlander PHEV awd system is also quite bad
@@Eugen-E really? How many have you owned or driven personally for more than 1000km?
@@dinkata2005 I've driven the 308 plug-in, the 3008 PHEV and that DS7 e-tense. And i know other people who drove them too. All of us got very bad fuel economy when the battery is empty. They are very inefficient. Some non-hybrid cars get better fuel consumption than those.
And there are hybrids that are a lot more efficient. A LOT !!!
And I didn't even talk about their engines which are pretty crappy. But that's another topic.
Them rear axle motors are too weak and brake based E-LSD isn't aggressive enough... basically too weak!!!
Leave it to Toyota to look at the 2012 CR-V's awful system and think, "how can we make a system that's even more useless?"
Are hybrids like these the future?
Seems like a step backwards.
Toyota is using a separate motor for the rear two wheels; this isn’t the norm. Some manufacturers make hybrids with traditional setups so they work better in low traction situations than these did.
For those people that think this is not good, remember, testing on rollers, where the grip is literary 0 is a situation that can never occur in real life. Even pure ice, like on a frozen lake has more grip than on rollers. Even a 2WD vehicle with good tires will move on pure ice. This type of test is an exaggeration that will never happen. All of the vehicles actually do a much better job in real driving conditions than on rollers.
Rollers under load are not 0 grip, they do have some resistance, much more than wheel in the air, which is mentioned by manufacturers in descriptions of certain modes.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers And yet, the car is not moving if you put all driven wheels on rollers... so the grip is 0, there is no movement...if there were even 0.1% grip the car will move...
@@dimekoza If rollers were flat - it would move, even on four. Mines are deep to exclude such situation.
I’m glad you’ve pointed that out to the channel. For everyday use I’ve had no problem with my RAV4 Adventure Hybrid. I mean would you buy this vehicle for pure 4x4 adventure driving. Obviously not.
There’s many expert channels doing these comprehensive tests in the real world.
Cheers.
@@johnmartin7158 As I mentioned - rollers have much more resistance than wheels in the air. Wheels in the air are mentioned by Toyota in their descriptions of Trail mode, not by our channel. Doesn't it suggest to go for at least light offroad? Bedsides - I haven't seen any expert channel claiming that AWD-i is more capable than DTV or ATS. The same conclusions come from roller tests.
Sad to see that toyota intentionally doesn't implement electronic limited slip differential in these vehicles, this is just a marketing 😢. No any additional hardware required, just proper programming.
I'd suggest when you change the drive modes and if all are failed, at a final stage use manual braking method to simulate eLSD. It is pretty easy to do in practice, so it would be nice to sea this method in your future videos.
Trail mode simulates limited slip differentials very well. Manual braking may be a problem cause majority of modern cars have brake priority over acceleration pedal.
Sadly the programing is also terrible they should apply way more break force on the overspeeding wheel
And it seems to get worse with time not better 2020vs2023
The earlier generation had a power problem like the Yaris
Even some 2WD cars can move with one drive wheel on pavement. A bad showing for Toyota.
That's a pretty poor effort for modern AWD.
And now some Suzuki's are rebadged Toyotas.
And some Toyotas are rebaged Suzuki.
Dramatyczne te nowe wymysły 4x4, wolę swoją kugę 4x4
It seems that toyota for moving the four wheels was 4wd.
Mam wrażenie że mój 508 RXH lepiej by sobie poradził mimo że ma podobną filozofię napędu: spalinówka przód, elektryk tył
Może kiedyś uda się spotkać i to sprawdzić 🙂
Its been really good in snow and gravel so I can't complain 😅
Which one?
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers 2019 Rav 4 Hybrid XSE
@@willb9259 So it's doing fine. Toyota reprogrammed the awd system in 2021 but I don't know if they applied it only to new cars or updated the older ones as well.
Seems like outlander phev has much better result.
You won't go any further with that outlander too.
În roller test, Outlander phev is useless.
Looks like hybrids don't go anywhere.. unfortunately
Omg! The new rav sucks! 😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
Damn Toyota, your AWD freaken sucks. How do you develop such an inferior AWD system?
Ale g**no... :)
Honda is the best for me
th-cam.com/video/QtNqREPTGpg/w-d-xo.html