Excellent breakdown and summary. Space heaters, hair dryers and toasters are all appliances with a similar heating element design. I am not convinced that Adam (Vector3D) did not do what he did unintentionally. He reviewed this machine like he resented it before he even touched it. His entire review was brutal and had a good number of factual errors that could have been easily avoided if he bothered to research at all. Even for anything that was good, he still followed up with negative comments that downplayed the good. Seriously, it was one of the most "bad faith" reviews I've seen in a long time. I don't know if he was having a bad day, or what else was going on.
@@kazolarI think markm49 was likely referring to Vectord3D posting pictures of a disassembled heating element grille and making the implication that the grille is always live and is open like shown, and without any additional protection or safety measures. As for the 2yo Klipper, Qidi continue to maintain their version of Klipper that was forked on 24th July 2022. As they state, they did this to provide for a more stable platform for them to support. Given that they are selling a machine that has a relatively fixed hardware implementation, and not an open source Voron, then so long as their fork is bug free and does the job, then running their own fork is fine. If you really want to mod it though with full open source Klipper, then take a diff of their changes against mainline branch at the time of the fork, and merge them into mainline Klipper and you should largely be good to go. It is still open source after all.
So tired of echo chambers. The online groups are full of people who just like to complain about everything and give advice when in no position to do so. I would just ignore all those stupid comments and I feel bad you even had to do a video on this subject .
The mob mentality is so dangerous in these days of social media. Anger and rage spread so fast, while logic and facts are so slow, and once a lot of people get enraged, they are unwilling to listen to logic and facts.
I don’t care I bought one anyway because I reckon as an adult I may not stick a screwdriver into the electrics and kill my self and, more importantly, I know a good thing when I see it.
As a guy with a shop full of table saws, circular saws, radial arm saws, band saws, forges, welders, plasma cutters, mills, lathes, etc., I find the entire idea of breaking out the smelling salts every time someone uses the term "mains power" to be another internet virtue signal. This is a little bitty toaster inside a printer that is much harder to access and more isolated than an actual toaster that is actually on your counter that has a one-by-six inch slot in it granting you access to the heating elements. How many people have electric ranges? What about power outlets in your wall? We are proximate to 120v 15amp power sources all day, every day. That said, this is an inevitable by product of the transition of 3d printing from an enthusiast hobby to a ubiquitous technology built for consumer use. You're exposing printers to people who have to be told not to eat the Tide pods. In days gone, we used Darwin to rid the gene pool of mutations programmed for self destruction. I guess at least we still have the common toaster and Tik Tok challenges for that. This is a not a beginner's printer. Heated chambers are not made for beginner's filaments. Among hobbyists, you should know your own risk tolerance and act accordingly. Just don't be a Karen and ruin it for the rest of us.
It comes down to the tools vs toys mindset. People who use these as tools and use other machine tools understand not to be stupid. People that buy printers as toys expect them to be easy bake ovens. If you are worried about your kid poking a screwdriver in to a heater shroud I would also worry about them poking that same screwdriver in to the wall outlet.
False equivalence. Everyone knows wall outlets are dangerous, children are educated since forever. There are safety covers for outlets. Nature and purpose of wall outlets makes it unavoidable - that you have relatively easy, fast access to live wires. Barely anyone will get deep into the nuances of a design of a certain consumer type 3D printer. To ensure it was designed with basic safety in mind. AND THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO. The fact this problem got viral, is because someone noticed, and was at the right place, at the right time. Fortunately. If something can go wrong, it likely will. There are myriad of variables here. Different plugs, manufacturing defects, screwdrivers, scrapers, water condensation, dust, residues, and so on and so on. Someone can set bed heating to more easily remove something like PETG, and stick a scraper or a screwdriver into the heater element because tool will slip, easily. Instead of cherry picking, and making excuses for lazy, dangerous for the end user engineering, they could just design it right in the first place, and or send replacement grates, and include a new revision in all their stock. This ain't a problem that can occur on a full moon, when the planets align, and little Timmy will push a wire into some crevice. This is a relatively large area under high voltage, dangerously exposed, no warnings from the manufacturer.
@@buka9993 A child that is of an age where they might randomly put a screwdriver in something should never be using or around machine tools unsupervised. Tools not toys. The only time that heater is live is when it has been commanded to heat. A curious child is not going to power on the machine, heat the chamber, and then reach in to the back of the hot chamber to put a screwdriver in heater.
@@buka9993 I think we need to draw a difference between inherent hazards and avoidable ones. Yeah my hair dryer might kill me, but one take a good look at it, and there's no way one could make it safer and still sane. This is a printer aiming for what, 600 or 800 price point, and people are telling me an extra $12 couldn't be found to make it a low voltage heater, something like 48V, floating or earth referenced? Or at least extra $1 to install an earthed metal shield grill in front of the heater? I also think it's a violation of Class I insulation safety.
@@WonkoTSane In countries with a Schuko plug, the heater can be live at all times. This even includes France and Czechia, which nominally have a polarised plug so it looks like it should be safe, but the compliance to the house wiring standard is appalling and you can't trust it. The heater can be live even with the power switch on the printer in the off position.
@@SianaGearz Any reasonable person thinks in that way. You don't even need anything fancy, just a better plastic grate design. Marginally higher costs. This comment section is full of boomer, self exalting talk. Foolish compartmentalizations. "The products today are worse than 20 years ago because they have higher safety standards!" yada yada yada... Someone, give me few examples where safety measures compromised performance, or ease of handling of some device / appliance in any substantial ( or at all ) way. They're just running their mouths. "They should do that, they shouldn't let kids near"... next guy. Yeah, a semi professional 3d printer ought to be... locked in a safe or something, because of the substandard engineering? What are they on about... Their shouldism won't matter either, accidents happen. Most optimal way out, is just prevention trough making the design safe.
Yeah, the concern here is way overblown. Don't let anyone near a toaster or hair dryer! Not to mention an electric stove. Or any space heater ever made. IMO Vector 3D was harsh about the Q1 Pro and didn't do a good job demonstrating its printing capabilities either. People generating drama over this online act like experts on a topic they know very little about.
To be fair, any space heater made properly and sold to western buyers won't have live voltage to the metal fins. That's just f-cking dangerous. But this? In the back of a 3D printer? I don't think it's a big deal.
@@AlphaMachina Not the wire style, and not a toaster or hair dryer. If we can trust people with a "mains voltage" toaster, we can probably trust them with this printer. ;) Totally get what you are saying though, hahaha.
A 3D printer is CNC machine, and must be treated like one. If you stick your hands in it while it's in operation, it WILL bite you. Typically not hard like, say, a full-size VMC, but still - you *will* go "ouch!"
Just to elaborate: European outlets have no polarity. Not by design, not implied, not by convention or customary. So the incoming power line to your printer, depending which way you plugged into the wall socket, can have have live and neutral "swapped" (there is no right way, so swapped doesn't really apply either, but you get the point). In your US wiring case, the heating element is always connected to your neutral line, and the SSR closes the "live" side to make it a circuit. In our case, it could be that it's always live, carrying full 220+ line voltage, and the SSR closes the neutral side in that case to turn the heater on. If you want to have a truly disconnected device, you need to disconnect both sides of the AC wiring, either with the physical power switch that also needs a pair of contacts then, or using two SSRs (which also seems wasteful in more ways than one). Or you need to design your device so that you can't touch anything that might be connected to the live side of the wiring, either directly or with a screw driver or scraper or even an allen key. It's inside a device where that's not an unreasonable assumption (being a 3D printer). But even if you should always pull the plug once you take a screwdriver into your hand, maybe you need to adjust something on the hotend and you drop it, or any number of other, normal screnacrios: would you pull the plug for it? I surely wouldn't. I maybe would turn it physically off, but honestly probably not even that... Just to be clear: that plug wiring is by design, and not a wiring error here. Electrically it's irrelevant for AC which side you connect to what terminal of any AC powered device, so there's no requirement for it and plugs don't need to be keyed either. Dealing with it properly inside a device is regulated by our electrical safety requirements, and I really don't know what they say about this case: It might be ok, it might not be. For comparisons: toasters disconnect both sides of the circuit when they are off, making sure the coils aren't ever live when they are not on, where you can also relatively easily reach the 220V heating wires.
As you've seen on my Twitter comments - I definitely agree with you and used same examples as you did in video. It's an issue, labelling should have been better, even the grill out of box should be same as one you've designed, but to blow it out of proportion this way... Really great and rational explanation!!
Didn't one of the reviews mention that there's mounting points to add a filter? If so, then that seems like something that would be an accessory for when needed, unless you're referring to just general printing of PLA and PETG as well, in which case this is an issue for almost all printers on the market.
@@stew675 yes, someone did this. But that should be already mounted or at least highly suggested with Goode on the SD card with some sticker on the printer or so… They advertise printing will nylon and abs (awesome) and there is no mention about this… It is like those cheap laser machines that don’t have any kind of cover or exhaust as well imho. Just so you know - I ordered one q1 pro 2 days ago so I am not a hater. I am genuinely surprised that people talk a lot about heating chamber element etc but not about this.
@@pfabiszewski I understand, but consider this. If you go to purchase any filament that requires filtration/ventilation, there are already warnings on the sales page for that filament, as well as on the box, that the filament should be printed in a well ventilated area, or with filtration. Meaning the warnings are there already. If you're printing with ABS/ASA/Nylon, and still don't know to filter/ventilate, then you've already ignored all those warnings too. I don't know. I guess for me it comes down to application/responsibility. When people buy a screwdriver, we don't demand that we see warnings all over the screwdriver not to stick it into a power socket. When we buy a power socket however, there are handling and safety warnings all over them. I see your scenario in much the same way. The printer is the tool. It has warnings on it that apply to what it is (hot surface, hot nozzle, etc, etc). I see the ABS as much like the wall socket. These are items that have their own specific handling and safety concerns, and they do come with such warnings. I buy a roll of ABS, and I see the warnings. Oh, now I need ventilation for this. I look at my printer, and I see that there's mounting holes for attaching filtration/ventilation! Best I use them to safely use the filament I'm using. I guess where I'm going with this is that unless they ship a 3D Printing encyclopedia with every printer (and let's face it, almost no one would read it anyway), the warnings are where they need to be, and that is on the items that are the issue (ie. the filament).
@@stew675 I see your point and I agree to a degree. I think my main issue is that implementing very simple filter (even exactly this 3D printed one with activated carbon) would probably add like 3-5 USD to a price and would almost totally resolve the issue. So small increment in means/cost, big increment in result. I think that is the thing that bothers me the most. Besides - the shape/feeling of this printer somewhat "implies" that everything is self-contained. I understand that I am more writing about my "feelings" now, but consumer behaviours are usually dictated by habits/impressions, not facts. And let me repeat - that lack of filter is like 50% of my point. Another 50% is that people talk about some "stupid heater", but not about this. I see some dissonance here. Nevertheless - we might just had the nicest discussion in my internet consumption history. Thank you :)
@pfabiszewski :) not everyone on the internet are angry people who see the world only in the colors of outrage and black and white, although I agree that it's getting harder to find them. I understand your points. I think it's just a marketing/pricing decision that Qidi have made here. I believe they're targeting a price point and even $5 or $10 more is an issue if that item can't be an accessory instead. I believe I also understand one of your other points. Since they already gave a chamber heater and the printer costs more because of it, then why not include a filter too, because if you're needing to use a chamber heater, then you're likely printing with filaments that gas off VOCs as well. Since the heater is mains power though, my guess is that they didn't want to make that an accessory as in many jurisdictions that would require an electrician to install. It's not good to have customers messing about with mains power, so I suspect that's why the heater isn't an accessory. It's an interesting topic. The market competition is really tight and that's probably led to the decision to omit the filter for this particular model and leave it as an accessory. The Plus and Max 3's all now supply the filter as well as standard, but they are also higher specced and higher margin devices. I dunno. It's a tough market to do business in. Lots of swings and roundabouts with every little decision, depending on the target market segment.
I'm not really concerned about the heater, but it's interesting that they don't include warning stickers for at least hot surfaces with instructions to power down/unplug before service (I think even companies like Creality does that). My bigger concern is that for some reason they decided to use their own fork of Klipper; rather than just configuring their printer.cfg to run their specific hardware and using a regular Klipperscreen compatible touchscreen they did some base code changes to run their stuff. I guess my expectation when they highlighted Klipper on their product page is that I can do normal Klipper things and not have to rely on Qidi to release their own fork updates.
I don’t disagree. I should have said that. I included “HOT” on the side of my grille for that reason, just didn’t show well with the CF filament I used. I will be mentioning this to Qidi in my feedback.
Good points. I appreciate your answering my questions on Twitter the other day - all in all, I wouldn't be any more concerned about this than a space heater and would treat it with as much care or more. I am a little confused why Qidi didn't have a better grille but based on their response to all this, I'm guessing they will make it right. In the end, I would NEVER work on a printer when it is on and plugged in. I would not be reaching in a high-speed printer when it is printing. I would make sure it is out of reach of small children and pets. These are common-sense measures one should take with any electric and mechanical item. The only concern would be the European plug issue but, again, I wouldn't be surprised if Qidi quickly fixes that. I really wish I had the space for one of these. I'd love to get more into high-temp materials. Good video.
I saw Adam had evaluated the heater in isolation, not within the system. This fumble was unfortunate, exacerbated by the livestream chatter. As a former electrical systems engineer - where energy isolation is a big deal, one can not isolate systems completely from malicious intent. The heater is sound. appreciate the time and your reach to educate.
I agree. Yes, you could misuse the machine enough to induce a hazardous condition but at that point you're rolling a personal responsiblity check. As much as the marketing is trying to mass appeal and EZ Bake Oven them, at the end of the day these are industrial machines, and care, knowledge, and attention are needed to use them safely. I'm happy that it's easier to be safe these days with the improvements in design and the proliferation of fuses and other safety features after some hard learned lessons, but they're still tools and have more capacity for personal mayhem than a hammer sitting on a bench.
They make heaters where the power goes directly to the ceramic parts without being routed through the fins, but they aren't as cheap. You can usually spot them because they have a cover over the ceramic parts. I used one in my V2 before giving up on it being pretty and making a polyiso foam insulation cover for it.
Make the air passage in the grate zig zag, with flat, 90o stops inside - half bottom / hal up / half bottom to stop any flexible wires. This is more expensive to manufacture ofc, if they inject mould it. But solves the problem, almost entirely.
A cheap way to safeguard this heater for Europe would be to place an earthed grill in front of it separated by just a tiny bit of spacing and with grill pitch no larger than 4mm. This way if some fault occurs (screw, screwdriver, springplate, stray ball bearing, even a finger), it shorts the potentially live surface to earth and throws the GFCI.
Hi, I have not seen the machine in real life, but I do have a question. It looks like the SSR is on the bottom of the frame, and what happens if someone drops a glass of cola that forms a puddle under the machine? Is the SSR positioned low enough to be a concern then?
Thinking back on older printers and how open all electronics on them were. I understand the concern but it seems this is an issue that is being made a bigger deal than it needs to be. That said the extra grill isnt going to hurt anything as long as its something tolerant of the heat like the material you used.
Hello and thanks for the Video, I enjoyed it. It is always good when people share what they have learned with others. My friend recently purchased a Q1 Pro Nov 1, 2024. They have fixed all the issues that people mentioned previous to this time I believe. A big thanks to all of you early purchasers for working out the bugs for the rest of us. I used my friends Qidi Q1 Pro a few times now and it is the Ultimate ABS Printing Machine. It prints ABS like a Prusa or Bambu Lab prints PLA - Fast and Accurate. I am hoping to get one myself soon. Question for you: since you have taken your Q1 Pro apart some, what do you think about relocating the rocker switch for the power on-off around to the front side on the sloped underside under the door? It seems like the perfect place for it from a user standpoint. Wondering if it is safe from mechanical or heating interference and if there is enough wire to relocate it.
Great video again, as always. As for safety, you're absolutely right. We live in a society that is over protective. If you have children and want them to use the printer, keep it in mind, as you say, the high temperatures and speed of the printer head are more likely to be a hazard than putting their fingers in the heating element. Make it clear to your children what the danger is and just as you would with a knife, scissors, etc.
Does anyone know the difference between the EU and US versions of the heater? I mistakenly ordered the US version, but my place uses 220VAC power. I switched the toggle on the 24VDC power supply so that the printer can work with 220VAC and temporarily disconnected the chamber heater control pin. Currently, I am using the printer without the chamber heating function
You said it brother.. “Safety as a replacement for responsibility” is a problem with everything, everyday. Today’s products are horrible because the average user seems to be an idiot.
Did sawstop make table saws worse? Today's products tend to be horrible due to corporate structure, where the PO, the manager who makes product decisions, is neither skilled in engineering nor user experience nor wants to know about these really, they hit arbitrary goals that lead to their promotion. These people fail upwards in their career as a rule.
@@T00LF00L IDKWYM i'm obviously from the wrong end of the globe but there's literally nothing wrong with the standard DIN7274 canister made by Valpro in Latvia. Hasn't changed in 40 years either. A good canister is a canister that is robust against damage and can be used safely, wouldn't you agree?
Very well done analysis. I think it’s a good rebuttal to people who are worried. It still sketches me out a little, but that extra grate adds peace of mind.
I just buy the QIDI Q1 Pro but I have problem for print, I check the temperature on hotend with thermal camera and i see I have only 72 deg C maximum on hotend outside when I setup for PLA 220 deg C. If you can please check with thermal camera what temperature on hotend you have on your Q1 Pro, thank you.
You are not testing things properly by looking at the outside of a hotend with a thermal camera. The only place the temperature truly matters is in the core of the nozzle where the filament is melting. The temperature difference from that point to the outside of the hotend can vary signficantly and not matter in the least. Unless you've got a very expensive thermal camera that is well calibrated to the material you are pointing it at, you aren't reading THAT accurately. They are good for a generalization of temperatures, not direct and accurate readings. It can show you if the hotend or bed is heating evenly, but not the actual temperature your firmware is reading. So my recommendation would be, ignore the thermal camera entirely. Tune the filament you are using to the machine. Run a temperature tower. You are over thinking things by trying to use external temperature measuring implements.
@@MandicLabs I also test the temperature with sensor and when on setup is 200 on sensor I see 150, is not metter what temperature is, every time is 50 deg C less, if I setup 350 I have 300.
I think a certain basic level of common sense and intelligence needs to be used anytime a person uses a tool or appliance. People that are attempting to manufacture some sort of drama around this should never being using power tools i the first place.
Mine arrived today and they now provide a heater chamber cover file on their site. We can now take of our high voltage protection gloves and live another day👍
I went to Austria on vacation to visit my family and we went to this awesome hiking trail that has manmade wooden stairs along the rock face that’s about 50+ feet over these awesome white water rapids. Turns out it’s on private property and the people that own it just have a “if you enjoyed yourself please consider donating” box. These man-made wooden staircases had a single braided steel cable on the outside to use as a handrail and some grip tape on each step. We just walked into the park -there was nobody guarding it/charging a fee and I asked my uncle “don’t we need to sign a waiver or something in case you know, something happens to us? What happens if we fall?” He said “you’ll probably die, so don’t fall” lol. I said no, I mean won’t somebody sue the people who own it if a family member or a guest falls down and dies or get seriously injured? He looked at me laughed and said no - this isn’t America - you should have the common sense to know that if you take the risk (nobody forced you to go hiking above white water rapids) you can’t sue if you get hurt due to your own negligence. They don’t have a culture of ambulance chasing lawyers over there and the comments about “well what if I touch a hot heating element!?” You’ll get burned dumbass - don’t touch it.
Thanks for the detail video. Excellent information and valid reasoning. If anything a sticker should be near by. I agree nothing wrong being cautious, however a lot of new members in the community that does not do research and learning a head of time and just dive in. I recall years back with a couple dying at their home from laser cutting some material that off gassed with not proper ventilation. It was a home business. Like you said, these items are all tools and should be treated with care.
Mains voltage heaters are nothing new. Space heaters to toasters use domestic AC in every country in the world. That said, powering from a AFCI/GFCI outlet for safety might be a good idea and a good use of $10
I can definitely see your point of view but from a modern safety standpoint it should definitely have a more protective grill on it. Pretty easy fix but something that should have been done at the factory. That being said keep in mind that your toaster doesn't have a protective grill on it and those heating elements are also live when it's on.
ha! you fixed it with conductive filament. I agree with you it doesn't really need a cover just common sense. I found out about cf filaments and electricity the hard way. I printed a tig welding torch handle with cf nylon and continually got shocked all day. it was the high frequency arc starting that jumped through the filament. CF filament isn't a good candidate for electrical insulation.
The mains heater doesn't overly worry me, so long as there's no way for a damaged wire etc to contact the frame and set it live too. The bigger problem for me with the Q1 Pro is the ancient, unmodifiable version of Klipper it's running.
It can be modified though. Qidi have a fork of Klipper that they use to provide a stable platform. They do backport newer features as is required for their products. If you want to modify it, they even have a page on their site that says to reach out to them, and they'll provide assistance with a build environment and tools to do so. Their entire source is available. You have root access to the control board. There is nothing stopping you from modifying it.
Well said, I agree that printers are tools and should be seen that way. Marketing them as something else is not good, but also not the subject of discussion. Seems like a good printer and you make a nice upgrade if someone feels better with more protection.
This is actually could be illegal in the U.K. and EU but it’s complicated as it’s a heater. However most devices would require more than one cover and would likely fall under the requirement for being double insulated. The rule is “The basic requirement is that no single failure can result in dangerous voltage becoming exposed so that it might cause an electric shock and that this is achieved without relying on an earthed metal casing” A single point of failure is that current cover. What. Complicates it though is many fan heaters have a fan grill exit where the element can be seen. This is complex how I would be leaning on this not actually being legal more than it is. However many fan heaters have the element exposed behind a grill, a toster does as well. However what you then have to take into account what you would be expected to do in the area around those. What complicates this is you are expected to be in the chamber and you are moving a metal bed around even if the heater is off. You have the very real potential to cause impact and damage to that cover. It’s not “shocking” bad design but as its mains it should have both a second cover and a warning label.
Agree on most of your points. But did you notice the lack of a fuse for the heater element? If the fan of the heater breaks, it will heat uncontrolled as long as the print goes, and possibly melt the enclosure and start a fire in the worst case.
It is a PTC heater, they are a self regulating design by nature. They cannot heat indefinitely. Someone else already tested this, I can’t find the post right now but they disabled the fan and let it heat, it didn’t get that hot when unregulated. It would be wetter to have additional controls, absolutely, but a total thermal runaway is unlikely in this instance.
@@MandicLabs Thanks Mandic. This might be an entirely european thing, but I am fairly sure this maching would not be allowed to be sold like this in the EU because it's unlikely, but not impossible.
Great design on the new cover and great video. I agree with you fully that this is a tool and not a toy and personal responsibility is not the job of the manufacturer. No different than the burners on the stove. Keep those kids and animals away, this is not a toy.
Obviously 3D printer is a machine. But it's also a home/office machine, not a workshop machine. Obviously it's going to have some hazards. I think burning hazard is acceptable, but if it can be minimised, that's good to aim for. Normally none of thesee temperatures are so hot that you wouldn't be able to remove your appendage once it's feeling too hot. You feel a burning sensation at something like 50-65°C but no injury is occuring at that temperature yet. I don't think hot end should have a large exposed hot area, but nozzle tip is only going to give you a tiny little burn that heals up no problem. A clothes iron and a stove pose a much higher burn hazard than a 3D printer, so that's about what you'd deem worst case acceptable if we can't help it. I think trauma hazard is acceptable, but not to the level of amputation, it shouldn't be a table saw. I think fire hazard and electric shock hazards are not generally acceptable to the extent at all avoidable, as these tend to lead to people's demise, which is not the same as losing a pinky. In most of Europe, the heater may be live at all times depending on which way you insert the Schuko plug into the socket. You have a 4-terminal SSR, that yellow MGR unit, this disconnects only either live or neutral depending on that. Ideally, there would be a fine earthed metal grill in front of the heating element, such that if you reach in with a screwdriver or drop a screw, GFCI will de-energise your space. Schuko power strip switches disconnect both live and neutral, and i think its advisable that 3D printer power switch should do the same in Europe because there's mains referenced metal here, which the power switch here does not, this creates an extra surprise behaviour and a hazard. Also if the heater could just be 48V or less and floating, that would just solve the whole hazard situation. I think the contacts of the PSU are sufficiently shielded for the class of product that it is, but knowing myself if i am to work on it, all these possible spots get covered with Kapton. I think 5.7mm opening is actually at times considered acceptable, but my pinky goes through around 4mm deep. Not a child either, just a not particularly large woman.
I used plenty of tools that are more dangerous than some mains-connected heater element. One of them can literally get your fingers ripped off and even rip the skin off your hand with your finger(-s). I always take precaution to keep my appendages away from anything that could mangle them, I keep my kids away from any powered tools, and I do all my maintenance with power off. The sole exception is heat end of my 3D printer, which often requires a bit of heating for disassembly. I also electrocuted myself three times in one evening by accident. I discharged big mains capacitor with my forearm, then discharged it again with my face, and lastly I grabbed the entire PCB to throw it forgetting to unplug it from the mains first. Discharging ~320V between my nose and lower lip was the worst and most shocking experience...
Really well throughout video on this. The summary at the end is exactly where we are at the companies want appliances but they are not building them to appliance standards yet. This printer just feels unfinished and make do. It would have taken them very little time to do proper cable management. But then the price would go up. I hope where not in another race to the bottom with corexy machines
Ordered the printer. Didn’t even know it had a controversy. Watched this video. Learnt about said controversy. Learnt not to worry about the controversy. And then he just casually mentioned the European plugs (starts sweating profoundly….). Well at least now I know the first thing I’m checking when I get the printer. 😂
you know what have open live voltage too for everyone to touch? Toasters. People that complain about that heater should know not to stick their fingers into a toaster too.
I just bought the Bambu P1S but I wish I had bought this printer. Bambu doesn't have the heater and can't print abrasives out of the box. Now I need to shell out like 60 bucks plus shipping for the hardened steel upgrade. This has just so much more value. Bambu prints great but the heater and hardened nozzle out of the box is hard to beat.
Quickest way to get banned there. I personally dont understand these people. I once posted on reddit why not more people use washer+screw as build plate stoppers. The answers were either "thanks for the idea, ill do it myself now", "use your finger for it" (bro I'm not touching a 100c warm piece of aluminium with a 250c piece of metal hovering over it) or, this answer was surprising for me, "people dont have the necessary equipment or aren't comfortable using a hand drill, use printed alignment jigs instead". Dude, you just wired mains voltage with instructions lacking some safety information and you are telling me you are afraid of using a cordless drill? In case you are wondering what information i mean, you always should leave AC ground longer than N and L, so its the last wire thats connected in case of a pull out, which can easily happen with spade connectors, you should really use closed connectors. If you dont leave ground longer, you dont even pass the test from apprentice to full worker in Austria.
This is serious UE problem. People were so stupid that they change the law, so now the cars have to stop wherever walkers MIGHT cross the road. Just realise how stupid people are not looking both sides crossing road, and also creating more CO² stopping cars in the same time fighting global warming 😂 btw global warming... Better dont talk loud about chamber heaters 🤭😅
completely agree , these are tools not appliances but even then a toaster is an appliance and it too will shock you if you touch the heating element and far more common to be done , I got my first printer with a chamber heater with qidi ifast and absolutely love , game changer for printing several filament types , while I don't have plans to buy this exact one from them also do have the xmas 3
All good points. I treat my printers like tools and use the same amount of care and attention I would with any tool that moves, cuts or heats. Unfortunately, that is not how manufacturers are marketing these things. They're shown in living rooms and on dining tables and in classrooms. They're being marketed as appliances accessible to anyone and everyone. A burnt finger because you reached into a toaster oven and touched a hot rack is very different than getting across mains voltage while trying to fish out a piece of loose filament or debris with a pair of tweezer. Even at an industrial level, this would not be allowed in a lot of cases. There's no way my EHS manager would let me put a piece of equipment out on the production floor that has exposed mains voltage without an estop on the door. Not trying to defend the scare-mongers, just saying there are use-cases where this not allowed.
Regarding the European plug, Type F is what you have shown, but Types L and C also have that problem, and the SSR: An SSR commonly only controls one pole, so it interrupts neutral or live but not both.
This is why hair dryers have warnings about using them in the shower. Even if Qidi did everything possible to prevent any kind of injury from using their products, and put labels on every part that gets hot, someone would find a way to hurt themselves. Use appropriate caution with any tool (or appliance) and you should be fine. Some of the people on social media would run screaming if they ever saw my wood shop . . .
Isn't carbon fiber conductive? Would definitely not use filement with carbon fiber for a cover that should insulate me from electricity. (Even though its not normally touch the element).
Carbon fiber filament majority base filament with fine strands of carbon fiber randomly interspersed into it. The likelihood of enough stands happening to cross paths with each other to create a path electricity will actually follow is extremely low. I can see quickly conductivity test it but I’ve done so in the past with zero results (when I’ve wanted to try and make something conductive). Most “filled” filaments really have a very small amount of the filler material in them.
@@MandicLabs While that is true that it only have 15% carbon fibre it is random and is still high voltage which means that you cant test with low voltage. In the end it might not be a problem but I just felt that it sounded like a quite unnecessary thing to use in this use case.
Alan, THANK YOU for this video! I prefer your outlook on things. I also look at 3D Printers as tools rather than as appliances. They are not ready for the appliance users.
EU AC is full sinewave and goes from +230V to -230V, therefore it doesn't matter which way you hook it up. Voltage still goes across. Full bridge rectifier ensures for DC which is + and which is -.
It's crazy how many printers have AC mains heat beds, and nobody bats an eye. 6+ years ago it was a taboo. The hardware hasn't changed (its still a silicone heater mat and SSR).
There are plenty of things to worry about in this world, that heater ain't one of em. The marketing annoys me. Printer companies are trying hard to act like they make appliances, and while we have made strides, we are still a long way from it. More than ever we see first time buyers hitting the power switch and then confused that the printer didn't just pop out a custom intake manifold all by itself.
Regarding the EU plugs and the SSR: The SSR only switches one wire and in most of the EU you can swap the plug so that means that either the neutral or the phase wire is switched. Anyhow, it is a bad idea to think that the neutral is safe to touch. Always - and I mean ALWAYS - assume that any wire coming from a wall outlet can contain a lethal voltage. I don't understand why the mains heater is such a big issue. As @markm49 already pointed out, toasters, heaters and hairdryers all contain open heater elements. Never ever stick a fork, knife, screwdriver or a finger in one of these while plugged in.
I guess a nice feature for the future would be to have the heater linked to the door. So if the front door is open it cuts the power to the heater. But yeah overall I agree, these are not home appliances yet.
It is correct that in EU the plug can be rotated causing the pins to be flipped. However, this is not a concern as all mains are AC; alternating current, and the difference between line and neutral _in this situation_ is nothing more than terminology. Put differently, electronics will already have to be able to deal with current flowing in both directions, not just in EU, but wherever there is AC power used for the mains power.
More volts = less amps. So yes, the 120VAC design consumes less energy losing the burden of the additional power supply, and is cheaper to build. What people don't understand is 24VDC can still shock you. This does not look like a bad design, maybe a little rushed to get to the consumer market.
There is only live in while it is heating which is mostly during printing. You will not go in there while you are printing anyway. I can't see the issue
Wow, the heater having live voltage even when cold here in Europe is quite a design flaw! But other than that, as many have said, it's no different to a toaster. So even appliance's heater elements are live 120-240 V.
I don't own a Qidi, I am not here to support the brand, but, "Real" machines with moving parts as mentioned in a machine shop, would have at minimum an interlock on the door (easy to add one to this printer though) so you're not inside there at all while it's on. The live part of the heater (after you have removed the protection fins), should be compared on a safety level more with a bread toaster and if you are concerned with bits falling in, then as you mentioned, print a secondary cover for it in ABS (or something). For places with swappable active and neutral, if it is an SSR or relay, add a second one on the other wire. These are easy mods.
The European ones the power is switched both power connectors so live and neutral both switch off and European outlets do have keyed to and some USA connectors can be not keyed
If someone would ask me, "but what if a kid gets in there ans touches it?" I would honestly just ask them, "how and why was your kid able to get in there in the first place?" I'm a woodworker myself with enough power tools and even a laser engraver. Sure I want things to be as safe as possible but THE best way to keep other people, especially kids and pets, safe is to just not let them enter!
While this is a tool and should be treated with respect, there was a simple solution that qidi seems to have been missed: A magnetic switch on the door and a circuit to deactivate the heater immediately when the door is open.
I doubt if you even got a shock from it that it would kill you because you won't be directly holding it. So your more likely to retract from the shock automatically. Ive inadvertently touched 240v with a screwdriver before everything happened quickly but the screwdriver dropped from my hand. Unless you physically grasp the live heat sink your muscles won't contract around the heater. Of course you should be aware and practice care but it's no different to any other appliance a toaster is probably far more dangerous.
I really hate the weak minded "children" argument people present, especially with 3D printing lately. At some point just shut up and take accountability for your kid, YOU'RE the parent so do things that ensure you aren't putting them at risk or yourself.
How do you find printing nylon compared to the Bambu? I'm of the same opinion - this is a tool and needs to be treated as such. Wish the outsides weren't plastic though..
Finally someone speaking sense - for goodness sake don’t ever use a toaster, heater, hairdryer etc.
Excellent breakdown and summary.
Space heaters, hair dryers and toasters are all appliances with a similar heating element design.
I am not convinced that Adam (Vector3D) did not do what he did unintentionally. He reviewed this machine like he resented it before he even touched it. His entire review was brutal and had a good number of factual errors that could have been easily avoided if he bothered to research at all. Even for anything that was good, he still followed up with negative comments that downplayed the good.
Seriously, it was one of the most "bad faith" reviews I've seen in a long time. I don't know if he was having a bad day, or what else was going on.
I posted elsewhere that Qidi should look to take legal action for defamation.
His review stated the machine came with 2 year old klipper, is that defamatory? Seemed accurate to me.
@@kazolarI think markm49 was likely referring to Vectord3D posting pictures of a disassembled heating element grille and making the implication that the grille is always live and is open like shown, and without any additional protection or safety measures.
As for the 2yo Klipper, Qidi continue to maintain their version of Klipper that was forked on 24th July 2022. As they state, they did this to provide for a more stable platform for them to support. Given that they are selling a machine that has a relatively fixed hardware implementation, and not an open source Voron, then so long as their fork is bug free and does the job, then running their own fork is fine. If you really want to mod it though with full open source Klipper, then take a diff of their changes against mainline branch at the time of the fork, and merge them into mainline Klipper and you should largely be good to go. It is still open source after all.
@@kazolar I don't find anything wrong with that
So tired of echo chambers. The online groups are full of people who just like to complain about everything and give advice when in no position to do so. I would just ignore all those stupid comments and I feel bad you even had to do a video on this subject .
The mob mentality is so dangerous in these days of social media. Anger and rage spread so fast, while logic and facts are so slow, and once a lot of people get enraged, they are unwilling to listen to logic and facts.
I don’t care I bought one anyway because I reckon as an adult I may not stick a screwdriver into the electrics and kill my self and, more importantly, I know a good thing when I see it.
As a guy with a shop full of table saws, circular saws, radial arm saws, band saws, forges, welders, plasma cutters, mills, lathes, etc., I find the entire idea of breaking out the smelling salts every time someone uses the term "mains power" to be another internet virtue signal. This is a little bitty toaster inside a printer that is much harder to access and more isolated than an actual toaster that is actually on your counter that has a one-by-six inch slot in it granting you access to the heating elements. How many people have electric ranges? What about power outlets in your wall? We are proximate to 120v 15amp power sources all day, every day.
That said, this is an inevitable by product of the transition of 3d printing from an enthusiast hobby to a ubiquitous technology built for consumer use. You're exposing printers to people who have to be told not to eat the Tide pods. In days gone, we used Darwin to rid the gene pool of mutations programmed for self destruction. I guess at least we still have the common toaster and Tik Tok challenges for that.
This is a not a beginner's printer. Heated chambers are not made for beginner's filaments. Among hobbyists, you should know your own risk tolerance and act accordingly. Just don't be a Karen and ruin it for the rest of us.
It comes down to the tools vs toys mindset. People who use these as tools and use other machine tools understand not to be stupid. People that buy printers as toys expect them to be easy bake ovens. If you are worried about your kid poking a screwdriver in to a heater shroud I would also worry about them poking that same screwdriver in to the wall outlet.
False equivalence. Everyone knows wall outlets are dangerous, children are educated since forever. There are safety covers for outlets. Nature and purpose of wall outlets makes it unavoidable - that you have relatively easy, fast access to live wires.
Barely anyone will get deep into the nuances of a design of a certain consumer type 3D printer. To ensure it was designed with basic safety in mind. AND THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO.
The fact this problem got viral, is because someone noticed, and was at the right place, at the right time. Fortunately.
If something can go wrong, it likely will. There are myriad of variables here. Different plugs, manufacturing defects, screwdrivers, scrapers, water condensation, dust, residues, and so on and so on. Someone can set bed heating to more easily remove something like PETG, and stick a scraper or a screwdriver into the heater element because tool will slip, easily.
Instead of cherry picking, and making excuses for lazy, dangerous for the end user engineering, they could just design it right in the first place, and or send replacement grates, and include a new revision in all their stock.
This ain't a problem that can occur on a full moon, when the planets align, and little Timmy will push a wire into some crevice. This is a relatively large area under high voltage, dangerously exposed, no warnings from the manufacturer.
@@buka9993 A child that is of an age where they might randomly put a screwdriver in something should never be using or around machine tools unsupervised. Tools not toys. The only time that heater is live is when it has been commanded to heat. A curious child is not going to power on the machine, heat the chamber, and then reach in to the back of the hot chamber to put a screwdriver in heater.
@@buka9993 I think we need to draw a difference between inherent hazards and avoidable ones. Yeah my hair dryer might kill me, but one take a good look at it, and there's no way one could make it safer and still sane. This is a printer aiming for what, 600 or 800 price point, and people are telling me an extra $12 couldn't be found to make it a low voltage heater, something like 48V, floating or earth referenced? Or at least extra $1 to install an earthed metal shield grill in front of the heater? I also think it's a violation of Class I insulation safety.
@@WonkoTSane In countries with a Schuko plug, the heater can be live at all times. This even includes France and Czechia, which nominally have a polarised plug so it looks like it should be safe, but the compliance to the house wiring standard is appalling and you can't trust it. The heater can be live even with the power switch on the printer in the off position.
@@SianaGearz Any reasonable person thinks in that way. You don't even need anything fancy, just a better plastic grate design. Marginally higher costs.
This comment section is full of boomer, self exalting talk. Foolish compartmentalizations.
"The products today are worse than 20 years ago because they have higher safety standards!" yada yada yada...
Someone, give me few examples where safety measures compromised performance, or ease of handling of some device / appliance in any substantial ( or at all ) way.
They're just running their mouths.
"They should do that, they shouldn't let kids near"... next guy.
Yeah, a semi professional 3d printer ought to be... locked in a safe or something, because of the substandard engineering?
What are they on about...
Their shouldism won't matter either, accidents happen. Most optimal way out, is just prevention trough making the design safe.
Yeah, the concern here is way overblown. Don't let anyone near a toaster or hair dryer! Not to mention an electric stove. Or any space heater ever made. IMO Vector 3D was harsh about the Q1 Pro and didn't do a good job demonstrating its printing capabilities either. People generating drama over this online act like experts on a topic they know very little about.
To be fair, any space heater made properly and sold to western buyers won't have live voltage to the metal fins. That's just f-cking dangerous. But this? In the back of a 3D printer? I don't think it's a big deal.
@@AlphaMachina Not the wire style, and not a toaster or hair dryer. If we can trust people with a "mains voltage" toaster, we can probably trust them with this printer. ;) Totally get what you are saying though, hahaha.
A 3D printer is CNC machine, and must be treated like one. If you stick your hands in it while it's in operation, it WILL bite you. Typically not hard like, say, a full-size VMC, but still - you *will* go "ouch!"
One of the few videos showing a sensible opinion on this. The risk is being overblown. Your comment on responsibility was right on, too.
Your evaluation is right on! Thanks for taking the time to do this.
Just to elaborate: European outlets have no polarity. Not by design, not implied, not by convention or customary. So the incoming power line to your printer, depending which way you plugged into the wall socket, can have have live and neutral "swapped" (there is no right way, so swapped doesn't really apply either, but you get the point). In your US wiring case, the heating element is always connected to your neutral line, and the SSR closes the "live" side to make it a circuit. In our case, it could be that it's always live, carrying full 220+ line voltage, and the SSR closes the neutral side in that case to turn the heater on. If you want to have a truly disconnected device, you need to disconnect both sides of the AC wiring, either with the physical power switch that also needs a pair of contacts then, or using two SSRs (which also seems wasteful in more ways than one).
Or you need to design your device so that you can't touch anything that might be connected to the live side of the wiring, either directly or with a screw driver or scraper or even an allen key. It's inside a device where that's not an unreasonable assumption (being a 3D printer). But even if you should always pull the plug once you take a screwdriver into your hand, maybe you need to adjust something on the hotend and you drop it, or any number of other, normal screnacrios: would you pull the plug for it? I surely wouldn't. I maybe would turn it physically off, but honestly probably not even that...
Just to be clear: that plug wiring is by design, and not a wiring error here. Electrically it's irrelevant for AC which side you connect to what terminal of any AC powered device, so there's no requirement for it and plugs don't need to be keyed either. Dealing with it properly inside a device is regulated by our electrical safety requirements, and I really don't know what they say about this case: It might be ok, it might not be. For comparisons: toasters disconnect both sides of the circuit when they are off, making sure the coils aren't ever live when they are not on, where you can also relatively easily reach the 220V heating wires.
As you've seen on my Twitter comments - I definitely agree with you and used same examples as you did in video.
It's an issue, labelling should have been better, even the grill out of box should be same as one you've designed, but to blow it out of proportion this way...
Really great and rational explanation!!
I personally think that lack of exhaust filter is much more dangerous for people...
Didn't one of the reviews mention that there's mounting points to add a filter? If so, then that seems like something that would be an accessory for when needed, unless you're referring to just general printing of PLA and PETG as well, in which case this is an issue for almost all printers on the market.
@@stew675 yes, someone did this. But that should be already mounted or at least highly suggested with Goode on the SD card with some sticker on the printer or so… They advertise printing will nylon and abs (awesome) and there is no mention about this… It is like those cheap laser machines that don’t have any kind of cover or exhaust as well imho.
Just so you know - I ordered one q1 pro 2 days ago so I am not a hater. I am genuinely surprised that people talk a lot about heating chamber element etc but not about this.
@@pfabiszewski I understand, but consider this. If you go to purchase any filament that requires filtration/ventilation, there are already warnings on the sales page for that filament, as well as on the box, that the filament should be printed in a well ventilated area, or with filtration.
Meaning the warnings are there already. If you're printing with ABS/ASA/Nylon, and still don't know to filter/ventilate, then you've already ignored all those warnings too.
I don't know. I guess for me it comes down to application/responsibility. When people buy a screwdriver, we don't demand that we see warnings all over the screwdriver not to stick it into a power socket. When we buy a power socket however, there are handling and safety warnings all over them.
I see your scenario in much the same way. The printer is the tool. It has warnings on it that apply to what it is (hot surface, hot nozzle, etc, etc).
I see the ABS as much like the wall socket. These are items that have their own specific handling and safety concerns, and they do come with such warnings.
I buy a roll of ABS, and I see the warnings. Oh, now I need ventilation for this. I look at my printer, and I see that there's mounting holes for attaching filtration/ventilation! Best I use them to safely use the filament I'm using.
I guess where I'm going with this is that unless they ship a 3D Printing encyclopedia with every printer (and let's face it, almost no one would read it anyway), the warnings are where they need to be, and that is on the items that are the issue (ie. the filament).
@@stew675 I see your point and I agree to a degree. I think my main issue is that implementing very simple filter (even exactly this 3D printed one with activated carbon) would probably add like 3-5 USD to a price and would almost totally resolve the issue. So small increment in means/cost, big increment in result. I think that is the thing that bothers me the most. Besides - the shape/feeling of this printer somewhat "implies" that everything is self-contained.
I understand that I am more writing about my "feelings" now, but consumer behaviours are usually dictated by habits/impressions, not facts.
And let me repeat - that lack of filter is like 50% of my point. Another 50% is that people talk about some "stupid heater", but not about this. I see some dissonance here.
Nevertheless - we might just had the nicest discussion in my internet consumption history. Thank you :)
@pfabiszewski :) not everyone on the internet are angry people who see the world only in the colors of outrage and black and white, although I agree that it's getting harder to find them.
I understand your points. I think it's just a marketing/pricing decision that Qidi have made here. I believe they're targeting a price point and even $5 or $10 more is an issue if that item can't be an accessory instead.
I believe I also understand one of your other points. Since they already gave a chamber heater and the printer costs more because of it, then why not include a filter too, because if you're needing to use a chamber heater, then you're likely printing with filaments that gas off VOCs as well.
Since the heater is mains power though, my guess is that they didn't want to make that an accessory as in many jurisdictions that would require an electrician to install. It's not good to have customers messing about with mains power, so I suspect that's why the heater isn't an accessory.
It's an interesting topic. The market competition is really tight and that's probably led to the decision to omit the filter for this particular model and leave it as an accessory. The Plus and Max 3's all now supply the filter as well as standard, but they are also higher specced and higher margin devices.
I dunno. It's a tough market to do business in. Lots of swings and roundabouts with every little decision, depending on the target market segment.
Reasonable take AND a solution, well done!
I'm not really concerned about the heater, but it's interesting that they don't include warning stickers for at least hot surfaces with instructions to power down/unplug before service (I think even companies like Creality does that). My bigger concern is that for some reason they decided to use their own fork of Klipper; rather than just configuring their printer.cfg to run their specific hardware and using a regular Klipperscreen compatible touchscreen they did some base code changes to run their stuff. I guess my expectation when they highlighted Klipper on their product page is that I can do normal Klipper things and not have to rely on Qidi to release their own fork updates.
I don’t disagree. I should have said that. I included “HOT” on the side of my grille for that reason, just didn’t show well with the CF filament I used.
I will be mentioning this to Qidi in my feedback.
You heard about a problem, tested it, and created a solution. Awesome.
If you look very closely behind the cat, there's a printer in this video.
I still see kitty!! 🐈
Good points. I appreciate your answering my questions on Twitter the other day - all in all, I wouldn't be any more concerned about this than a space heater and would treat it with as much care or more. I am a little confused why Qidi didn't have a better grille but based on their response to all this, I'm guessing they will make it right.
In the end, I would NEVER work on a printer when it is on and plugged in. I would not be reaching in a high-speed printer when it is printing. I would make sure it is out of reach of small children and pets. These are common-sense measures one should take with any electric and mechanical item. The only concern would be the European plug issue but, again, I wouldn't be surprised if Qidi quickly fixes that.
I really wish I had the space for one of these. I'd love to get more into high-temp materials.
Good video.
I saw Adam had evaluated the heater in isolation, not within the system. This fumble was unfortunate, exacerbated by the livestream chatter. As a former electrical systems engineer - where energy isolation is a big deal, one can not isolate systems completely from malicious intent. The heater is sound. appreciate the time and your reach to educate.
I agree. Yes, you could misuse the machine enough to induce a hazardous condition but at that point you're rolling a personal responsiblity check. As much as the marketing is trying to mass appeal and EZ Bake Oven them, at the end of the day these are industrial machines, and care, knowledge, and attention are needed to use them safely. I'm happy that it's easier to be safe these days with the improvements in design and the proliferation of fuses and other safety features after some hard learned lessons, but they're still tools and have more capacity for personal mayhem than a hammer sitting on a bench.
They make heaters where the power goes directly to the ceramic parts without being routed through the fins, but they aren't as cheap. You can usually spot them because they have a cover over the ceramic parts. I used one in my V2 before giving up on it being pretty and making a polyiso foam insulation cover for it.
Make the air passage in the grate zig zag, with flat, 90o stops inside - half bottom / hal up / half bottom to stop any flexible wires. This is more expensive to manufacture ofc, if they inject mould it. But solves the problem, almost entirely.
A cheap way to safeguard this heater for Europe would be to place an earthed grill in front of it separated by just a tiny bit of spacing and with grill pitch no larger than 4mm. This way if some fault occurs (screw, screwdriver, springplate, stray ball bearing, even a finger), it shorts the potentially live surface to earth and throws the GFCI.
Hi, I have not seen the machine in real life, but I do have a question.
It looks like the SSR is on the bottom of the frame, and what happens if someone drops a glass of cola that forms a puddle under the machine?
Is the SSR positioned low enough to be a concern then?
Thinking back on older printers and how open all electronics on them were. I understand the concern but it seems this is an issue that is being made a bigger deal than it needs to be. That said the extra grill isnt going to hurt anything as long as its something tolerant of the heat like the material you used.
Hello and thanks for the Video, I enjoyed it. It is always good when people share what they have learned with others. My friend recently purchased a Q1 Pro Nov 1, 2024. They have fixed all the issues that people mentioned previous to this time I believe. A big thanks to all of you early purchasers for working out the bugs for the rest of us. I used my friends Qidi Q1 Pro a few times now and it is the Ultimate ABS Printing Machine. It prints ABS like a Prusa or Bambu Lab prints PLA - Fast and Accurate. I am hoping to get one myself soon. Question for you: since you have taken your Q1 Pro apart some, what do you think about relocating the rocker switch for the power on-off around to the front side on the sloped underside under the door? It seems like the perfect place for it from a user standpoint. Wondering if it is safe from mechanical or heating interference and if there is enough wire to relocate it.
Great video again, as always. As for safety, you're absolutely right. We live in a society that is over protective. If you have children and want them to use the printer, keep it in mind, as you say, the high temperatures and speed of the printer head are more likely to be a hazard than putting their fingers in the heating element. Make it clear to your children what the danger is and just as you would with a knife, scissors, etc.
I agree 100% with you. Good video.
Does anyone know the difference between the EU and US versions of the heater? I mistakenly ordered the US version, but my place uses 220VAC power. I switched the toggle on the 24VDC power supply so that the printer can work with 220VAC and temporarily disconnected the chamber heater control pin. Currently, I am using the printer without the chamber heating function
You said it brother.. “Safety as a replacement for responsibility” is a problem with everything, everyday. Today’s products are horrible because the average user seems to be an idiot.
Did sawstop make table saws worse? Today's products tend to be horrible due to corporate structure, where the PO, the manager who makes product decisions, is neither skilled in engineering nor user experience nor wants to know about these really, they hit arbitrary goals that lead to their promotion. These people fail upwards in their career as a rule.
@@SianaGearz yeah ok, that's why you can't buy a good gas can anymore. 🙄
@@T00LF00L IDKWYM i'm obviously from the wrong end of the globe but there's literally nothing wrong with the standard DIN7274 canister made by Valpro in Latvia. Hasn't changed in 40 years either. A good canister is a canister that is robust against damage and can be used safely, wouldn't you agree?
Very well done analysis. I think it’s a good rebuttal to people who are worried. It still sketches me out a little, but that extra grate adds peace of mind.
I just buy the QIDI Q1 Pro but I have problem for print, I check the temperature on hotend with thermal camera and i see I have only 72 deg C maximum on hotend outside when I setup for PLA 220 deg C.
If you can please check with thermal camera what temperature on hotend you have on your Q1 Pro, thank you.
You are not testing things properly by looking at the outside of a hotend with a thermal camera. The only place the temperature truly matters is in the core of the nozzle where the filament is melting. The temperature difference from that point to the outside of the hotend can vary signficantly and not matter in the least.
Unless you've got a very expensive thermal camera that is well calibrated to the material you are pointing it at, you aren't reading THAT accurately. They are good for a generalization of temperatures, not direct and accurate readings. It can show you if the hotend or bed is heating evenly, but not the actual temperature your firmware is reading.
So my recommendation would be, ignore the thermal camera entirely. Tune the filament you are using to the machine. Run a temperature tower. You are over thinking things by trying to use external temperature measuring implements.
@@MandicLabs I also test the temperature with sensor and when on setup is 200 on sensor I see 150, is not metter what temperature is, every time is 50 deg C less,
if I setup 350 I have 300.
Thank you for being reasonable. A warning sticker might be good. Could also be implemented that you have to enable the heater in the config yourself.
I appreciate the analysis and explanations about why it's not THAT big of a deal.
Excellent discussion of personal responsibility and common sense.
I think a certain basic level of common sense and intelligence needs to be used anytime a person uses a tool or appliance. People that are attempting to manufacture some sort of drama around this should never being using power tools i the first place.
Mine arrived today and they now provide a heater chamber cover file on their site. We can now take of our high voltage protection gloves and live another day👍
What's the distance between the heater's fan and the side panel inside? Is it enough to allow it to "breathe" efficiently?
Always love 3d printed solutions to 3d printed concerns. Nicely done!
I went to Austria on vacation to visit my family and we went to this awesome hiking trail that has manmade wooden stairs along the rock face that’s about 50+ feet over these awesome white water rapids. Turns out it’s on private property and the people that own it just have a “if you enjoyed yourself please consider donating” box. These man-made wooden staircases had a single braided steel cable on the outside to use as a handrail and some grip tape on each step. We just walked into the park -there was nobody guarding it/charging a fee and I asked my uncle “don’t we need to sign a waiver or something in case you know, something happens to us? What happens if we fall?” He said “you’ll probably die, so don’t fall” lol. I said no, I mean won’t somebody sue the people who own it if a family member or a guest falls down and dies or get seriously injured? He looked at me laughed and said no - this isn’t America - you should have the common sense to know that if you take the risk (nobody forced you to go hiking above white water rapids) you can’t sue if you get hurt due to your own negligence. They don’t have a culture of ambulance chasing lawyers over there and the comments about “well what if I touch a hot heating element!?” You’ll get burned dumbass - don’t touch it.
Thanks for the detail video. Excellent information and valid reasoning. If anything a sticker should be near by. I agree nothing wrong being cautious, however a lot of new members in the community that does not do research and learning a head of time and just dive in. I recall years back with a couple dying at their home from laser cutting some material that off gassed with not proper ventilation. It was a home business. Like you said, these items are all tools and should be treated with care.
Mains voltage heaters are nothing new. Space heaters to toasters use domestic AC in every country in the world. That said, powering from a AFCI/GFCI outlet for safety might be a good idea and a good use of $10
I can definitely see your point of view but from a modern safety standpoint it should definitely have a more protective grill on it. Pretty easy fix but something that should have been done at the factory. That being said keep in mind that your toaster doesn't have a protective grill on it and those heating elements are also live when it's on.
ha! you fixed it with conductive filament. I agree with you it doesn't really need a cover just common sense.
I found out about cf filaments and electricity the hard way. I printed a tig welding torch handle with cf nylon and continually got shocked all day. it was the high frequency arc starting that jumped through the filament. CF filament isn't a good candidate for electrical insulation.
The mains heater doesn't overly worry me, so long as there's no way for a damaged wire etc to contact the frame and set it live too. The bigger problem for me with the Q1 Pro is the ancient, unmodifiable version of Klipper it's running.
It can be modified though. Qidi have a fork of Klipper that they use to provide a stable platform. They do backport newer features as is required for their products.
If you want to modify it, they even have a page on their site that says to reach out to them, and they'll provide assistance with a build environment and tools to do so.
Their entire source is available. You have root access to the control board. There is nothing stopping you from modifying it.
Well said, I agree that printers are tools and should be seen that way. Marketing them as something else is not good, but also not the subject of discussion. Seems like a good printer and you make a nice upgrade if someone feels better with more protection.
Again prettiest high speed bench I've seen
Should have a clicks-on type overtemp safety switch in the heater. What happens if that fan dies, is it going to just cook itself?
This is actually could be illegal in the U.K. and EU but it’s complicated as it’s a heater. However most devices would require more than one cover and would likely fall under the requirement for being double insulated.
The rule is “The basic requirement is that no single failure can result in dangerous voltage becoming exposed so that it might cause an electric shock and that this is achieved without relying on an earthed metal casing”
A single point of failure is that current cover.
What. Complicates it though is many fan heaters have a fan grill exit where the element can be seen. This is complex how I would be leaning on this not actually being legal more than it is.
However many fan heaters have the element exposed behind a grill, a toster does as well. However what you then have to take into account what you would be expected to do in the area around those. What complicates this is you are expected to be in the chamber and you are moving a metal bed around even if the heater is off. You have the very real potential to cause impact and damage to that cover.
It’s not “shocking” bad design but as its mains it should have both a second cover and a warning label.
Agree on most of your points. But did you notice the lack of a fuse for the heater element? If the fan of the heater breaks, it will heat uncontrolled as long as the print goes, and possibly melt the enclosure and start a fire in the worst case.
It is a PTC heater, they are a self regulating design by nature. They cannot heat indefinitely. Someone else already tested this, I can’t find the post right now but they disabled the fan and let it heat, it didn’t get that hot when unregulated. It would be wetter to have additional controls, absolutely, but a total thermal runaway is unlikely in this instance.
@@MandicLabs Thanks Mandic. This might be an entirely european thing, but I am fairly sure this maching would not be allowed to be sold like this in the EU because it's unlikely, but not impossible.
Great design on the new cover and great video. I agree with you fully that this is a tool and not a toy and personal responsibility is not the job of the manufacturer. No different than the burners on the stove. Keep those kids and animals away, this is not a toy.
Obviously 3D printer is a machine.
But it's also a home/office machine, not a workshop machine.
Obviously it's going to have some hazards. I think burning hazard is acceptable, but if it can be minimised, that's good to aim for. Normally none of thesee temperatures are so hot that you wouldn't be able to remove your appendage once it's feeling too hot. You feel a burning sensation at something like 50-65°C but no injury is occuring at that temperature yet. I don't think hot end should have a large exposed hot area, but nozzle tip is only going to give you a tiny little burn that heals up no problem. A clothes iron and a stove pose a much higher burn hazard than a 3D printer, so that's about what you'd deem worst case acceptable if we can't help it.
I think trauma hazard is acceptable, but not to the level of amputation, it shouldn't be a table saw.
I think fire hazard and electric shock hazards are not generally acceptable to the extent at all avoidable, as these tend to lead to people's demise, which is not the same as losing a pinky. In most of Europe, the heater may be live at all times depending on which way you insert the Schuko plug into the socket. You have a 4-terminal SSR, that yellow MGR unit, this disconnects only either live or neutral depending on that. Ideally, there would be a fine earthed metal grill in front of the heating element, such that if you reach in with a screwdriver or drop a screw, GFCI will de-energise your space. Schuko power strip switches disconnect both live and neutral, and i think its advisable that 3D printer power switch should do the same in Europe because there's mains referenced metal here, which the power switch here does not, this creates an extra surprise behaviour and a hazard.
Also if the heater could just be 48V or less and floating, that would just solve the whole hazard situation.
I think the contacts of the PSU are sufficiently shielded for the class of product that it is, but knowing myself if i am to work on it, all these possible spots get covered with Kapton.
I think 5.7mm opening is actually at times considered acceptable, but my pinky goes through around 4mm deep. Not a child either, just a not particularly large woman.
I used plenty of tools that are more dangerous than some mains-connected heater element. One of them can literally get your fingers ripped off and even rip the skin off your hand with your finger(-s). I always take precaution to keep my appendages away from anything that could mangle them, I keep my kids away from any powered tools, and I do all my maintenance with power off. The sole exception is heat end of my 3D printer, which often requires a bit of heating for disassembly.
I also electrocuted myself three times in one evening by accident. I discharged big mains capacitor with my forearm, then discharged it again with my face, and lastly I grabbed the entire PCB to throw it forgetting to unplug it from the mains first. Discharging ~320V between my nose and lower lip was the worst and most shocking experience...
Good vid man!!!
Really well throughout video on this. The summary at the end is exactly where we are at the companies want appliances but they are not building them to appliance standards yet. This printer just feels unfinished and make do. It would have taken them very little time to do proper cable management. But then the price would go up. I hope where not in another race to the bottom with corexy machines
I was shocked when watching one reviewer's video, his opinion was that this was a good printer and he was impressed!
Ordered the printer. Didn’t even know it had a controversy. Watched this video. Learnt about said controversy. Learnt not to worry about the controversy. And then he just casually mentioned the European plugs (starts sweating profoundly….). Well at least now I know the first thing I’m checking when I get the printer. 😂
you know what have open live voltage too for everyone to touch? Toasters. People that complain about that heater should know not to stick their fingers into a toaster too.
I just bought the Bambu P1S but I wish I had bought this printer. Bambu doesn't have the heater and can't print abrasives out of the box. Now I need to shell out like 60 bucks plus shipping for the hardened steel upgrade. This has just so much more value. Bambu prints great but the heater and hardened nozzle out of the box is hard to beat.
OMG! A 3d printer with heated and moving parts, how horrible! A case of knowing what you are buying, and being responsible.
Voron discord doesn't even let you talk about chamber heaters, it a rule lol
Voron community are mostly elitists anyways
Quickest way to get banned there. I personally dont understand these people. I once posted on reddit why not more people use washer+screw as build plate stoppers. The answers were either "thanks for the idea, ill do it myself now", "use your finger for it" (bro I'm not touching a 100c warm piece of aluminium with a 250c piece of metal hovering over it) or, this answer was surprising for me, "people dont have the necessary equipment or aren't comfortable using a hand drill, use printed alignment jigs instead". Dude, you just wired mains voltage with instructions lacking some safety information and you are telling me you are afraid of using a cordless drill? In case you are wondering what information i mean, you always should leave AC ground longer than N and L, so its the last wire thats connected in case of a pull out, which can easily happen with spade connectors, you should really use closed connectors. If you dont leave ground longer, you dont even pass the test from apprentice to full worker in Austria.
the x plus 3 had a 24v heater, but iirc that required a separate psu to provide the 300w, I guess this is just one of the ways they cut costs.
Good point and honestly people are making it bigger than it really is.
We should stop crossing the street. Someone might hit us 😂. Great video.
This is serious UE problem. People were so stupid that they change the law, so now the cars have to stop wherever walkers MIGHT cross the road. Just realise how stupid people are not looking both sides crossing road, and also creating more CO² stopping cars in the same time fighting global warming 😂 btw global warming... Better dont talk loud about chamber heaters 🤭😅
non-issue
completely agree , these are tools not appliances but even then a toaster is an appliance and it too will shock you if you touch the heating element and far more common to be done , I got my first printer with a chamber heater with qidi ifast and absolutely love , game changer for printing several filament types , while I don't have plans to buy this exact one from them also do have the xmas 3
I'm a fan of carefully implemented AC heaters. They're powerful and efficient. You want to heat the bed/chamber, not the PSU.
What well thought through and informative video. Thank you.
All good points. I treat my printers like tools and use the same amount of care and attention I would with any tool that moves, cuts or heats. Unfortunately, that is not how manufacturers are marketing these things. They're shown in living rooms and on dining tables and in classrooms. They're being marketed as appliances accessible to anyone and everyone. A burnt finger because you reached into a toaster oven and touched a hot rack is very different than getting across mains voltage while trying to fish out a piece of loose filament or debris with a pair of tweezer. Even at an industrial level, this would not be allowed in a lot of cases. There's no way my EHS manager would let me put a piece of equipment out on the production floor that has exposed mains voltage without an estop on the door. Not trying to defend the scare-mongers, just saying there are use-cases where this not allowed.
Regarding the European plug, Type F is what you have shown, but Types L and C also have that problem, and the SSR: An SSR commonly only controls one pole, so it interrupts neutral or live but not both.
This is why hair dryers have warnings about using them in the shower. Even if Qidi did everything possible to prevent any kind of injury from using their products, and put labels on every part that gets hot, someone would find a way to hurt themselves. Use appropriate caution with any tool (or appliance) and you should be fine. Some of the people on social media would run screaming if they ever saw my wood shop . . .
Isn't carbon fiber conductive? Would definitely not use filement with carbon fiber for a cover that should insulate me from electricity. (Even though its not normally touch the element).
Carbon fiber filament majority base filament with fine strands of carbon fiber randomly interspersed into it. The likelihood of enough stands happening to cross paths with each other to create a path electricity will actually follow is extremely low. I can see quickly conductivity test it but I’ve done so in the past with zero results (when I’ve wanted to try and make something conductive). Most “filled” filaments really have a very small amount of the filler material in them.
@@MandicLabs While that is true that it only have 15% carbon fibre it is random and is still high voltage which means that you cant test with low voltage. In the end it might not be a problem but I just felt that it sounded like a quite unnecessary thing to use in this use case.
Alan, THANK YOU for this video! I prefer your outlook on things. I also look at 3D Printers as tools rather than as appliances. They are not ready for the appliance users.
EU AC is full sinewave and goes from +230V to -230V, therefore it doesn't matter which way you hook it up. Voltage still goes across.
Full bridge rectifier ensures for DC which is + and which is -.
It's crazy how many printers have AC mains heat beds, and nobody bats an eye. 6+ years ago it was a taboo. The hardware hasn't changed (its still a silicone heater mat and SSR).
A washing machine or a dryer are appliances and have mains heater elements. Not mentioning a hair dryer or a toaster.
I was considering this machine and then I found this "issue". Man, was that review written in bad faith and the problem blown out of proportion.
0:35 Give my a fuss, purr, prurr 😻
There are plenty of things to worry about in this world, that heater ain't one of em.
The marketing annoys me. Printer companies are trying hard to act like they make appliances, and while we have made strides, we are still a long way from it. More than ever we see first time buyers hitting the power switch and then confused that the printer didn't just pop out a custom intake manifold all by itself.
Regarding the EU plugs and the SSR: The SSR only switches one wire and in most of the EU you can swap the plug so that means that either the neutral or the phase wire is switched.
Anyhow, it is a bad idea to think that the neutral is safe to touch. Always - and I mean ALWAYS - assume that any wire coming from a wall outlet can contain a lethal voltage.
I don't understand why the mains heater is such a big issue. As @markm49 already pointed out, toasters, heaters and hairdryers all contain open heater elements. Never ever stick a fork, knife, screwdriver or a finger in one of these while plugged in.
love the "Labs" fomat! Keep it going.
I love the slap dash video’s especially if it means more content.
definitely have to be careful going Lnside that machine
I guess a nice feature for the future would be to have the heater linked to the door. So if the front door is open it cuts the power to the heater. But yeah overall I agree, these are not home appliances yet.
It is correct that in EU the plug can be rotated causing the pins to be flipped. However, this is not a concern as all mains are AC; alternating current, and the difference between line and neutral _in this situation_ is nothing more than terminology. Put differently, electronics will already have to be able to deal with current flowing in both directions, not just in EU, but wherever there is AC power used for the mains power.
More volts = less amps. So yes, the 120VAC design consumes less energy losing the burden of the additional power supply, and is cheaper to build. What people don't understand is 24VDC can still shock you. This does not look like a bad design, maybe a little rushed to get to the consumer market.
There is only live in while it is heating which is mostly during printing. You will not go in there while you are printing anyway. I can't see the issue
Wow, the heater having live voltage even when cold here in Europe is quite a design flaw!
But other than that, as many have said, it's no different to a toaster. So even appliance's heater elements are live 120-240 V.
Nice job on the new cover. I suspect Qidi will end up sending a fix out for this, since they are usually good about these types of things.
I don't own a Qidi, I am not here to support the brand, but, "Real" machines with moving parts as mentioned in a machine shop, would have at minimum an interlock on the door (easy to add one to this printer though) so you're not inside there at all while it's on.
The live part of the heater (after you have removed the protection fins), should be compared on a safety level more with a bread toaster and if you are concerned with bits falling in, then as you mentioned, print a secondary cover for it in ABS (or something).
For places with swappable active and neutral, if it is an SSR or relay, add a second one on the other wire. These are easy mods.
The European ones the power is switched both power connectors so live and neutral both switch off and European outlets do have keyed to and some USA connectors can be not keyed
If someone would ask me, "but what if a kid gets in there ans touches it?"
I would honestly just ask them, "how and why was your kid able to get in there in the first place?"
I'm a woodworker myself with enough power tools and even a laser engraver. Sure I want things to be as safe as possible but THE best way to keep other people, especially kids and pets, safe is to just not let them enter!
Well said!
TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU.
While this is a tool and should be treated with respect, there was a simple solution that qidi seems to have been missed:
A magnetic switch on the door and a circuit to deactivate the heater immediately when the door is open.
so is there a cat in the printer or not?
I’m more concerned about the filtration and venting setup as it is. I’d like to see a bento box/ nevermore filter for it soon.
I doubt if you even got a shock from it that it would kill you because you won't be directly holding it. So your more likely to retract from the shock automatically. Ive inadvertently touched 240v with a screwdriver before everything happened quickly but the screwdriver dropped from my hand. Unless you physically grasp the live heat sink your muscles won't contract around the heater. Of course you should be aware and practice care but it's no different to any other appliance a toaster is probably far more dangerous.
I really hate the weak minded "children" argument people present, especially with 3D printing lately. At some point just shut up and take accountability for your kid, YOU'RE the parent so do things that ensure you aren't putting them at risk or yourself.
A voice of reason!
How do you find printing nylon compared to the Bambu?
I'm of the same opinion - this is a tool and needs to be treated as such. Wish the outsides weren't plastic though..
The print quality I have seen from every review so far is phenomenal.
Gene is the best co-host
Star of the show
TBF a lowercase L does look like an uppercase i.