I think people just got exhausted with the irony of girl crush. "I'm badass, I do what I want when I want, I'm the best, you can't rain on my parade, I don't care what you think," all while being untrue. Female idols follow strict beauty and diet standards, strict schedules, can't date, can't go clubbing, can't go here or there, have to follow rules and be hyper obedient of they wanna debut, have to act a certain way on camera. And then sing about how they do what they want when they want? I think girl crush just started to feel ingenuous to a lot of people and fake and plastic, and it's just been falling out of favour the more kpop fans understand the irony of it all
Wow I honestly hadn’t even thought about the specific points you made in your comment until now. I always just thought that lyrics like this were silly because of how basic they were. I hadn’t considered the irony. They live such limiting lives where they are constantly being told what to do by their company and fans and then release songs that have them singing about how in control they are of their lives. I wish I had made these points in the video but you beat me to it, lol. 😂
@@amber_kae haha, it's ok!! I'm glad you spoke about it so I can share some thoughts. I'm not from America, I don't know how women are portrayed in adds like the ones you showed me, so it's nice that by making this video, you were able to open a discussion where we can learn from each other and share different ideas. Great video, by the way, I really enjoyed it
One example would be Everglow. After the company did not give them a comeback for more than a year they cameback with Slay and were all about breaking the rules, I mean, it's just rings hollow, especially when they forced Mia to cut her hair short. And a song like Itzy Wannabe, idols cannot be themselves, they have to be what the company wants them to be. It is hard to care about this women's empowerment message when companies do not practice that at all.
@fran529 completely. There's a whole different Adrenaline rush when you listen to I AM THE BEST by 2ne1 vs the 3rd gen 4th gen groups, simply because as you said, they ring more hollow
Yes I think that’s why (g)I-dle has found such great success, because it feels genuine like those are legit their experiences, the wave of female producers and songwriters from Elly of Exid to Soyeon from (g)I-dle to now seeing the itzy girls do their own stuff. The success Soyeon has seen for her tittle tracks being the producer of her group has opened so many doors for other kpop girls, their companies see that it’s working and now they’re letting them be in more control of their image and music. She is truly changing things around
Can't talk about girl crush without talking about 2NE1 & Blackpink's lead producer Teddy. It is ironic in a sense, because he is a man lol. But I always think back to his quote in Star News back in 2009, "I think that the music producer plays the part of setting a middle ground between what the composer was aiming for and the singer's intention. There were a lot of times when I was offered a large amount of money to compose and produce, but I turned the offer down because I didn't know that singer perfectly." Teddy gets a lot of criticism of course, but I think that mentality is a lot better than other girl crush groups who seemingly have no say at all regarding their image. The concept is just imposed onto them regardless of whether they want it or not.
2NE1 also had a lot of input not always by choice, after all Crush their most current and last album was heavily pushed by CL and she fought tooth and nail to make it happen as well as certain songs she had penned on like the title track itself, they also had to make their own outfits for things because of reasons or buy them with their own money because reasons, mainly YGE was pretty poor when they debuted, even with BB's success three years earlier and I think the fact they had to claw their way to be where they were as a group it really solidifed the concept as more than just a concept for them. They were put down, seen as 'ugly' by the normal standards of both the era in kpop and the asian beauty standards as a whole. They were and are so loved internationally and probably domestically, because it was girls for girls and for people in a very anti-girl group norms, way. No one really does Girl Crush like them because for most it's a concept not a way to make their own niche, least imho. But other groups which to me don't seem like they want to do it as a concept on main. Are where the burn out of the concept and it's overuse begins. This needs to be taken into consideration a lot more tbh by companies in kpop rather than chasing trends or trying to force junior groups into the moulds made by their seniors. Groups should be able to evolve in kpop a lil more if a concept is not truly something that all members collectively enjoy. Solos exist for a reason. But companies have kinda burnt GC out as a concept by applying it to every group in the 3rd and 4th gen after it's popularity in 2nd gen.
TWICE being called antifeminist by prominent K-pop channels at the time while BLACKPINK was being uplifted for being the *one* good feminist gg was my least favorite era of K-pop. It's nice to see that liking a lot of girl groups isn't uncommon anymore. I like them both and both have had some seriously questionable lyrics (Teddy you're not seeing heaven), but it was incredibly annoying to see people not see the deeper meaning behind songs like Likey. To this day, some newer stans still lump bright concepts as corny while dark concepts are more mature. Songs like POP may sound cute, but their lyrics aren't Disney Channel or whatever the twitter streets like to call it now. Also, I feel like K-pop can really go far if we and companies stop trying to give aesthetics a name and just go for the vision. I'm tired of people calling everything the newjeans-y2k look or when they were saying aespa was copying bp with their concept during debut. tldr; We need stop trying to force lump mv and teaser aesthetics together. Thanks for the new video btw!
I think two things can be true: Cute concepts often are an infantalizing and objectifying version of femininity, and Girl Crush is often a simplistic and equally objectifying presentation of the same. The trouble is that both are disingenuous, corporate models of idealized gender developed mostly by older men with the express purpose of making as much money as possible. Under those conditions, it becomes incredibly difficult for an artist's/group's image, style, and sound to include any kind of nuance or originality. Everything will eventually be flattened into a one-dimensional, cookie cutter presentation of desireability (in any regard) from the perspective of the executive suite.
It's about reading the room lol more explicitly analyzing the current state of society, during the boom of gil crush concepts women (the target audience) were in the middle of a feminist (very shallow and liberal but that's another topic) awakening, it was all about girl bossing sexual empowerment and extreme cult to hair and makeup bordering on drag for daily wear. It was THE perfect moment to milk the "girl crush" but with the pandemic everything changed, extreme beauty slowed down and was replaced with comfort with simplicity, the "clean girl" was born, we started looking back on 90's classy minimalism so the concept must adjust to this new woman if they want them as a client base
You make some excellent points here! It’s interesting how much more toned down K-pop has become in just the past two years. I don’t mean toned down as if it’s gotten boring. It’s more so how visually and sonically cleaner a lot of it sounds. Before, I didn’t understand how people were distinguishing the differences between 4th and 5th gen mainly due to how subtle the transition was from one to the other. Now I’m thinking the differences came from how visually different they both are. Girl crush (and other concepts) have evolved somewhat from what they were in previous generations and this, I think, is what really signaled the change.
I like Gidle's take on girl crush the most. Firstly, it can be clearly seen from their career path how they CAME to it. They always had some edgy style, but Latata is nowhere as girl crush as Nxde. At first Queendom, then Soojin's big scandal - all this heavily impacted the group and the girls themselves. Tomboy alongside I never die album as a whole was a breaking point. It was full of fury, power, desire to win and prove everyone wrong. For Idle girl crush became a way of development, growth. Secondly, it feels genuine with them. Probably because of Soyeon. She's a definition of girl crush imo: from her fierce stage presence to what she says and, more importantly, does. Self-producing is the most real girl crush thing that a group can do. It's one thing to act bossy on stage and the other one to actually be the boss. Moreover, all members are mature and like the concept they do. I have a big problem with, for example, Babymonster who are just kids trying to be badass. It feels so uncomfortable that it pains to watch. Finally, I like how Idle do this concept. Girl crush is not in the centre of their comebacks, it's more of an overall feeling that connects all the parts together. Idle always try different music styles, different topics, different aesthetics. Unique approuch makes girl crush less overwhelming and way more interesting.
I feel like fans who joined kpop during 2016-2018 grew tired and couldn't relate to shallow "look at how bad I am" lyrics after having lived and experienced a little bit of life. One could argue that younger fans brought in streams but it's the older financially dependant fans who fill the stadiums and give these artists albums sales.
I've always been surprised how cuteness seems to be linked to the male gaze. As a women who grew up in America, I thought of the cute concept as catering to young women (like how Hello Kitty is marketed towards women). The cute concepts were what I liked most in K-pop and we don't really have that in Western music. Like, East Asian media in general feels allowed to be unabashedly cute and I've never stopped liking that part of it in my ~18 years of consuming it. Even being 30 now, it always felt right to me; I can't tell you why.
The girl crush concept often gets traced back to 2NE1 as they heavily popularized it in the 2nd generation of K-pop, but it would be a disservice to not acknowledge that if you look at their complete discography, their brand of girl crush is more than just flaunting their wealth and fame or "ain't no man gonna tell me what to do". Their biggest hits would seem to tell you otherwise, but looking at the bigger picture, 2NE1 had a LOT of introspection and vulnerability in their music that's simply lacking today, which you can see in title tracks such as Ugly and I Love You. 2NE1 is also unique in that they were a primarily girl crush group that would release intimate power ballads as flagship tracks every now and then, like It Hurts (Slow), Missing You, and the timeless noraebang classic, Lonely. These days, you'd be hard pressed to find girl groups who would promote ballads as their title track. Everything has to have a choreography. Everything has to be TikTok dance challenge ready. The occasional power ballad in the 3rd or 4th generation usually gets relegated to a B-side or at best, a pre-release single. 2NE1 has a very diverse discography that the term "girl crush" doesn't even begin to cover it. In relation to their image or how they present themselves as a group, I would say they embody the term fully. In relation to their music though, the term "girl crush" only truly describes part of what that they do. This separation of public image and lyricism is something that very few new artists are aiming for, let alone even aware of. In that sense, tracks such as LSF's "Impurities" plays more like a homecoming to the "bigger picture" brand of girl crush that 2NE1 pioneered, rather than a complete new evolution of the concept or genre.
I think girl crush made sense for 2NE1 in particular in a way that doesn’t feel gimmicky is bc it felt genuine. None of the girls seem like cutesy individuals. Even when Minzy some months back went on that TH-cam show where two celebs text without knowing who the other is and they slowly try to get to know and eventually guess who the other is, minzy after being revealed was told that she texts like a guy and I think (it’s a bit fuzzy it might’ve actually been a comment on the video) that minzy had said her and the other 2ne1 members talked like that with each other. And obviously women like all humans are multifaceted and you can wear lots of makeup, dresses and high heels yet still have a what in a traditional sense would be perceived as a masculine way of a speech, personality and/or interests but yea. They also just seemed less guarded/refined, like very upfront and open at least compared to their counterparts. They walked the walk and talked the talk when it comes to their music. Same with by extension blackpink, they are a bit girlier but the whole thing with girl crush is that you are more open and confident and you do what you want and I think at least some of the blackpink members kinda exude that (Lisa and Jennie for sure). They dress how they want, speak how they want for the most part. With a lot of these other girl crush groups or groups that did try, and maybe to no fault of their own, they don’t have that kind of attitude so it comes across as not genuine. Like sis you aren’t a bad bitch and that’s okay. Some of y’all are cute girl next doors and that’s alright there’s room for everyone. That being said while I preferred girl crush, I still did like cute music. I liked twice and red velvet red music at their peak. But I do be listening to everything if it’s catchy I’ll eat it up
You pretty said what I’ve been feeling! Out of all the K-pop girl groups (so far), BLACKPINK and 2NE1 have special places in my heart. To me, their brands of “girl crush” have some layers of authenticity. Although members like Park Bom, Jisoo, and Rosé fall a bit more on the “girlier” spectrum, they don’t seem out of place. Instead, they show that you don’t have to totally eschew “girliness” to be “strong.”
@@PinkNintendoDuo87 yea I think the essence of girl crush is being a bit more outspoken and less refined and doing what you want. Even with the actions of the blackpink members, Jennie wears stuff that other idols wouldn’t be able to get away with bc it’s revealing, but she does it regardless of the hate she gets and I respect that. Or Lisa doing the Caberet show in Paris. And yea even park bom, jisoo, and rosé still fit even if not as much as the other members. I think YG groups did girl crush the best bc tbh all their idols/celebs already had that mentality of kinda just doing what they want. Bigbang winner and ikon had a lot more lax approach than their counterparts too. Even other acts like epik high. It only seems up until recently due to scandals that the company culture has shifted a bit.
_warning: long paragraphs_ I'm happy that we're finally having this conversation. When I was younger and coming into kpop, I originally had the same outlook on cute concepts and thought "hip hop" concepts were a better look for girls. I thankfully was also wise enough to realize that my prejudice was very unfair and didn't try the music before making such conclusions. Around this time, Gfriend debuted with Glass Bead and proved me wrong. It was a sweet and endearing concept but the lyrics were pretty different in it's approach - it's still a love song but the way it's written sounds like the "guy" is so lucky they like him. It gives off a "I want you so stop expecting me to change how I feel. You're so insecure." Ever since, I was a buddy. And I came to the same conclusion that you did: there is no right and wrong way for women to portray themselves. As long as its for themselves, it is what being a woman is. There is also a layer of misogyny that reeks from how girl crush is put on a pedestal. I still remember back in 2017, when Gfriend was promoting Summer Rain, how a journalist on a podcast (a woman btw) referred to them as 'girls twirling in skirts for perverted old men' and kept being condescending just bc she didn't like them for what? That same shitty mentality of what is acceptable for women or not. Mind you, girl crush isn't even that different. Alot of girl crush songs still look for a man's attention, wearing striking makeup and clothing that men will also pay attention to; You bringing up 2NE1 is perfect because Blackpink unfortunately were created with the idea that they were the "prettier version" of 2NE1. Western groups like Destiny's Child had empowerment songs like Bills, Bills, Bills and Independent Woman but also songs like Solider (a song looking for a man), Cater 2 U (about catering to a man) and even with Survivor indirectly being a diss at former members of the group over favoritism in the group. Like I'm not acting like any of these themes are wrong or nuanced, but some people really think girl crush specifically panders to them (which are mainly women) but to these companies its just to increase the catering pool outside of men who like edgy girls.
You’re right! It is catchy and I also don’t hate the song even though it’s not my favorite IVE song. Every song has its place in the genre. I just find certain lyrics funny sometimes (either due to irony or context) and this goes for all music, not just K-pop. There are plenty of silly lyrics in music across all genres. So don’t think I’m telling you not to enjoy what you like listening to. This video was for pure entertainment, not to shame people for liking the things they like.
Wow, 2NE1 is the reason I got into K-pop, so it makes sense why I’ve always favored girl crush concepts, even now ahaha I love this analysis of a concept/sub-genre, would love to hear you talk about other areas of the music that you really enjoy~
Even within the “girl crush” sphere of K-pop, I just can’t get into everyone else’s approach. For me, the likes of 2NE1, BLACKPINK, and ITZY are more up my alley.
They're not adult girls, they're young girls who have the right to be silly and passionate and sometimes a little stupid, stupid boy around the boys they like, people always seem to want girls to mature too fast
I would love to see a part 2 of this video where you dissect the girl crush concept and sound through the groups, soloists, and labels who heavily portrayed it in different k-pop generations as well as its impact on the k-pop scene as a whole. For me personally, Cube have the best girl crush concepts, songs, and artists with CLC, HyunA, 4Minute as well as (G)I-DLE. I know Lightsum follow more of a teen crush concept and their most recent comeback 'Honey or Spice' contains their most "girl crush" b-side called 'Light It Up', the 3 members who sing the song also fit the concept the best in comparison to the other 3 members who sang another b-side called 'Whoopie' which is a bright song.
I personally also enjoyed the girl crush by Cube groups the most tbh. And that's thanks to the aura and talent of the girls. But also other things. 4Minute worked because they came out when Korea needed a concept like a girl crush, they debuted at the same time as 2NE1 after all. Plus they didn't make ONLY girl crush, with time they tried other things, right up to 2015 when girl crush started having a slow resurgence again. Then there's Hyuna who was Cube's fave child hence she had a lot more control over her stuff and she did write her own lyrics a lot that's why her stuff felt a lot more natural. She had a lot of experience of being sexualised since being basically a child and at one point she started using it as her armour. When CLC debuted they didn't go girl crush but tbh some lyrics for their title tracks weren't really that typical for cute girl groups like Pepe and No Oh Oh can be pretty deep if you dissect them. Then they transitioned to Girl Crush and that was thanks to Hyuna's help so we had the female touch. Yeeun also writes her own rap verses. I also know the members did give ideas for concepts because Sorn mentioned bringing whole Power Points to meetings. Black Dress & NO are such a great bangers with very ironic lyrics messages of which totally flew over people's heads, like NOONE really got what NO was about and I bet poor Soyeon (who made the song btw) was prolly facepalming hard. Me is about accepting and loving your own beauty which we love. And then Helicopter wasn't either about "I am badass and the best" but rather about not giving up and striving to be better. Which considering it was basically their disbandment song makes me cry. But I am happy that the members didn't give up and most of them still try their strengths in the industry. And of course Idle are the epitome of the new wave girl crush which isn't about JUST being cool but about speaking about their experiences as women in a country like Korea and in such a sexist industry too. When it comes to Lightsum, I was surprised Cube decided to stick to the Teen Crush because honestly the girls totally can pull off something harder/darker. Like if you watch their predebut dance covers on 1theK, OH BOY. But they also can do brighter things which would be fun if they did more mix up between the two. I loved Honey or Spice tho, it was something fresh and gave me the vibes of 2nd gen but those of f(x) on contrary. Although I am afraid they disappeared in the sea of Teen Crush and Cube is about to bury yet another great girl group again *sigh*. They really cannot read the room that following trends that are in full swing already isn't a good move, same thing happened with CLC. Also sidenote: justice for Weki Meki being ACTUALLY the pioneers of Teen Crush cause that is when I saw the term first time used when they described their concept. Not ITZY as JYP likes everyone to think lol. Sorry for the longass comment.
Am I the only person who just goes like "is the music good or nah?" or is that just me? The heavy focus with gen 4.5 going in gen 5, obsessing over lyrics, taking it far deeper than we should, is honestly what throws me off. Unless the lyrics are straight up problematic, of course. Then you skip.
Agreed! Most times I don’t really pay that close attention to lyrics unless they are exceptional in some way that’s personal to me or if the song has something unique to say. This time, I just thought it’s be fun to analyze a concept and it’s different forms. If I’m being honest, most lyrics in K-pop are harmless.
"I'm a bad bitch and you can't tell me what to do" is such a great summary. I totally relate to this, I didn't like Twice at alllll because I was so used to girl crush, i hated the sugary sweet sound and look. But now I love them, their music feels like pure happiness. I hope 5th wave has a more evolved girl crush concept that is more like "I'm a bad bitch but you are too, let's be bad bitches together"
Tbh all kpop concepts become cookie cutter at some point which is why cute, girl crush, and now the y2k concept are falling out of favor. Just like you said in 11:59-16:44, of companies and their producers need to do better job with these concepts, sounds, lyrics, etc.
When 2NE1 did it, it was fresh and new. But it became stale and then the hate train came, as it comes for everything that gets mainstream. Another amazing video essay!
We are not yet mature enough to appreciate those happy songs of TWICE during those times. Once I reached that aged were I choose to find happiness I found it in TWICE and on my late 20's
the new circle thing going around ur icon and expanding when u talk 😭 i used to watch the old one go round and around with the gradient it was so pretty
10:40 I definitely agree with this point. If you are a powerful woman or truly believe you are one, why would you need to shout it over and over again as if you're trying to prove something? True power can be seen and not said.
honestly, i hope girlcrush never comes back in k-pop. like i actually hate it so much. it's cringe, anoying and i genrally don't like the music that comes out from the concept. I used to think it was pretty okay as a new k-pop stan (when girlcrush was still pretty popular) but now that the industry is changing and i've got the taste of other music styles, i could'nt hate it more. (sorry 4 my spelling btw idkkk)
i’ve been listening to kpop since 2009 and a “stan” since 2016 and i’ve always disliked girlcrush - i’m not really sure why. i’m a girl from the west who adores cute, innocent, teen, school, and elegant concepts and i’ve always stuck out a bit in the international kpop fan sphere because of it. the only girl crush music i ever liked was 4minute’s discography 😭 i don’t hate on the genre because how could i hate on something that empowers other girls? but i’ve always wished the cuter and softer concepts were respected by the west in the same way that girl crush is
This is the reason why I particularly enjoyed Blackpink's "You Never Know" so much. it was completely different to what they usually release and so much more vulnerable which allows people to see them as a group and the concept of "girl crush" in a new light.
To be honest, I just listen to the music. Before watching this video, I knew the term girl crush, but I couldn't define it if asked to describe the genre. I like what I like and I don't care what the concept behind the music is if you make a good song, im gunna listen to it. I don't understand fans that exclude songs or artists based on things like that, and with that being said, every time I see a video about K-pop fans, it is almost always toxic. Kpop fans hold idols to this insane standard and forget that yes, they are musicians and artists but more importantly, people. The whole if you don't like every song they release your not a real fan is stupid I'm sorry but every song released by your favorite group isn't perfect.
Honestly, same. Despite BLACKPINK and BTS being my all-time favourite pop groups, I’m not obligated to like every song they release (“Shut Down”>“Pink Venom” any day). While I do happen to like some TWICE songs (the less “cutesy” stuff), that doesn’t mean they’re my overall fave group/artist.
honestly... the cute concept does make me uncomfortable. i dont live in korea but they are ranked really low for gender equality. the cute concept, the idea of aegyo is not inherently bad but its often paired with tight clothes and short skirts, simultaneously infantilizing and objectifying. Korea's cultural context like aegyo is inseparable from its extreme sexism. especially when watching adult women playing dress up like high schoolers. But girl crush is also rough, tight outfits super sexual, but acting like they're doing it for themselves. tbh i think le sserafim does the best combo (tho dont get me wrong they are super sexualized) but their harder songs like antifragile still has cute moments, and they go back and forth pretty regularly while maintaining a strong image
While I’m not against cuteness/girliness on its own, I REALLY dislike the rigid enforcement of it (especially regarding gender roles/norms). In the K-pop context, I feel some of the female idols fair better with concepts that are less cutesy or “girly” (same can be true the other way around).
Even as an Asian woman myself, there’s something about Asia’s cute culture that irks me. The only time I can tolerate such cuteness is when it doesn’t border on infantilization. Part of the reason why I’m a casual TXT fan is because their “youthful” concepts aren’t done in an “annoyingly cutesy” fashion.
That’s some great points for me (g)i-dle pulls it better that I don’t even consider it a concept it’s just them, I would recommend their b-sides moon, what’s in your house, Lucid, sculpture, polaroid and dark-x file you can truly pinpoint the rawness of their emotions all of their music is written and made by them, some of their views of love, fame and when Soojin left. You can actually see the evolution of their way of thinking through their music it’s pretty cool plus they have such a rage of genres that you would find something you like at least
Its a lie , Its your own projection if you think that in girl crush concept , no one is looking for male attention when BP's songs does surrounds around male validation . And its really annoying when Non Koreans dont understand aegyo culture . In korean culture , aegyo is NOT limited to young women , grown men and even grandparents do aegyo ,It ks basically having a cute charn , i dont at like this excuse ' they rank low im gender equality ' this happens in many countries not just in Korea , Saying women do aegyo for male attention is projection and i am done with foreingers asking korean women not to do aegyo and making them responsible for pedo behaiviour of men , why always women have to take responsibility for men's actione ? Let women have fun , Its totally wrong to limit empowerment to one concept ,please do some research , comments like this just sounds like blaming east asian women . You are not doing any better than a patriach becuz you are still telling women to act a certain way . Being cute is nothing wrong and if Koreans think men and even old people can act cute , why will you foreigners make it weird ? Foreigners lack research thats it . You saying cute is not strong is wrong itself , there is no certain aesthetic that makes women strong , its the mindset , Wonyoung as been called pick me , weak and this and that only becuz she is cute , when in reality that girl is very strong . I am done with people demonizing cute concepts and acting as girl crush is strong when the lyrics are all about begging for male attention .
Examples of songs that I think are ACTUALLY empowering and feminist: Stereotype by StayC, Bad Girl Good Girl, Allergy by Gidle. I think real feminism should be about women to be able to express them self however they like and it not taking away their personhood. Also to be able to admit that there are times you aren't strong, happy an that sometimes you might need some guidance, because you're human. A lot of "empowering" songs are about being "strong", not caring about what others think, being independent, being able to do things just like a man. But that's not realistic. That's like telling women that they can't express their emotions, never rely on anyone else than themselves, can never feel insecure, and that if you can't do something as well as a man, you're a failure. Stereotype is portrayed in a light-hearted an girly way while Bad Girl Good Girl is more sexy. But both are empowering. GGBG is a song saying that even if a woman acts sexily, it doesn't mean that she's a sl*t or that she is inviting the men to do anything he wants with her. Underneath the sexy act, there is a real person, a good girl that has many sides to her and is just like any other girl. Tne sexy woman is just as worthy of respect as any other woman, because at the end of the day we are all just women, we're all just humans. All humans have the same basic needs, they just have different ways of dealing with, expressing and getting that need met. Now, Allergy. It's a song about comparing yourselves to other women. Not in a toxic, "I'm so jealous so I hate you" kind of way, but a very real honest and vulnerable way. Everyone craves validation. In the song, they are expressing that they percieve these other women to be better, lovelier, sexier, and prettier. Even though they are all dolled up, they still feel like that, even popular girl Miyeon feels that way. If more women heard this kind of sentiment, they would realize that the person you hate because you're jealous is probably just as insecure as you, and the person who bullies you is probably doing it because of their own insecurities. In that way, we wouldn't see ourselves as so different from each other, and we wouldn't take the bad things other people put us through as seriously. Because we realize that it's not personal. And the person that did the bad thing might start seeing the victim as just another person who is more like them than they first thought. Now none of these were girl crush concepts or powerful concepts, but I'm sure I could find songs with those concepts that I also find empowering. But the typical "I'm not like other girls" or "I'm so powerful, I'm so strong, I can do anything" songs are not a part of them.
I would die for a video essay that talks about the contradictory behavior this particular issue, how it expands on this girl crush versus cutesy concepts. What I’ve seen in recent years is women being more comfortable with their femininity rejecting to be ridiculed for it, embracing songs from twice, new jeans snds and others that pander to a more traditional view of feminity. Rejecting messages that appeal to what feels as girl crush who panders to some fake empowerment, just like movies that are made with female protagonist where there is a clear lack of women in the room and just panders to this very liberal idea of feminism. But there is this interesting thing that happens to a group that doesn’t completely fit both
You could argue that (g)i-dle is a girl crush concept group but in reality is just them exploring their identity. What I’ve seen is both of this m crowds reject (g)i-dle, this is very evident with the song Queencard while it has very visual and “non sense” lyrics that fit with the ideas of cutesy concept, the public demands of them to intellectualize it because they are used to the seriousness of their themes and don’t believe and idea could be portrayed in such a way, there for they get ridiculed by the same crowd who embraces cutesy, but because the song holds certain value and it’s not completely “dumb” the other crowd bashes it for making such a subject so light and says it’s not bold enough or groundbreaking enough to be considered a girl crush concept, those same people who love to praise hwaa for their amazing nuances, will completely miss the point of the song and praise any other group with this concepts without asking demanding any type of quality. They fail to realize this are songs made by women for women, where you get criticized for standing in any line, because as a women exploring womanhood in this world no matter what you do you will not be enough, it feels like people completely lose their media literacy ability or are unable to look into what’s really happening in their videos or songs, even when nxde came out, one of the more groundbreaking songs for Kpop, westerners were bashing it for not being feminist enough or feeling it disingenuous thanks to the girl crush concept problem, failing to realize that there is no room for disingenuousness because it’s made by them, yes it’s a product but a very well thought out product. Not only that but what a lot of westerners fail to realize when taking about (g)-idle is that the songs are not pandering to them, yes every kpop group wants to expand to other countries, but when the creator of this songs has specified that this songs are ment for a Korean audience I don’t think you as an outsider should have a say on the scale of how groundbreaking what they do is, specially due to how Korean women have talked about the importance of this songs to them. I just feel like when taking about (g)i-dle people suddenly become very pretentious and out right contradictory, why is there such a high standard for them and no other kpop groups, I do wonder if it comes from misogyny. And yeah it’s just pop music but I feel if we don’t question or look into what we like or the reasons we like it it somehow feels empty like I truly wanna gain an understanding of things that’s why it’s cool to read into them.
08:40 This is a bit under-complex as an explanation of Aegyo. Aegyo is more of a strategy to assert one's own interests. This is then not enforced through confrontation but rather through de-escalation. It is definitely a manipulative method to achieve your own goals and I don't mean that in a judgmental way. It is a strategy from the weaker position and yes in a patriarchal society this is a strategy of many women. But it also makes sense because it is a very social strategy, which doesn't mean that it can't be abused. 12:30 btw. Creativity is such a thing. People are social creatures and you don't usually live under a rock. This makes it pretty impossible for anyone to invent something completely new without having already received some inspiration from others. That is the concept of culture. So this is by no means just inherent in the K-pop industry.
But before blackpink there was 2ne1 who has opposite concept of cute concept too, i said it because i know them and i know kpop since snsd and 2nd génération of kpop. i was a Snsd/Girls Generation fan, i love their cute concept specially Gee. Yes there is culture différences, i love cute concept not only in music, well received in Asia when in Western, people view cute concept, anime etc for children, when in Asia cute concept isn't just for children
My experience around twice is similar. I liked twice and girls generation and other groups' japanese releases or b-sides. Japanese releases from kpop groups always went harder. I don't think it was a political thing for me about how women should be, it was more about me believing the sound just wasn't lively and energetic enough. But in 4th gen I've had my eye's opened to a lot of twice and other girl groups I just didn't know about before. The industry growth has no doubt made more choices available, and many groups release several concepts and genres per year. There is almost too much to choose from now. 💕
I had the same experience with Twice. I would describe it this way: Girls Crush (mostly Blackpink for me): Is love at first sight. I fell hard and fast. But also fell out of love fast. Still like it, but most of the time I wish for something a little bit deeper & more innovative. Cute Concept (mostly Twice songs in this case): are slow burn loves for me. It needed some time, but now I can't get enough of it, because I didn't over played them. Also the songs, eventhough most of them are cute, are very different & have diverse messages.
Don’t know about you, but I just can’t vibe with TWICE’s overall group brand. Despite liking some of their songs, I feel that some members fair better with less “cutesy” stuff (like Jihyo and maybe Nayeon, for example). Doesn’t help when JYP (the man himself) has this unsettling preference for girl groups; I’m saying this as an ITZY fan.
I love cute concept not only in music, well received in Asia when in Western, people view cute concept, anime etc for children, when in Asia cute concept isn't just for children
@@CherrieJellyBeanie No, this concept isn't disgusting at all, it's a western view! A lot of asian love cute concept and being cute, it'son their culture, aegyo etc and it isn't disgusting!!! I love cute concept and i'm a mature old woman!
@@CherrieJellyBeanie Cute concept isn't disgusting at all!!! I'm a mature old woman and i love concept! You have a western point of view who doesn't understand cute concept at all!
@@CherrieJellyBeanie It isn't infantilization at all, it's from a culture, asian love cute concept, love aegyo, being cute isn't infantilization at all! Lol the western point of view
I'd just add to my other comment, that what I had liked and related to about japanese kpop is more along the lines of what you are saying is generally "western"; the harder music, maybe some harder language, darker sleeker fashions, resembling what I associate with (retro) 90s. That wasn't popular in the US either. That's what I was comfortable with and what was actually missing in the U.S. market. Now what I'm talking about here I'm going back to 3G and maybe 2G, and this goes for BGs too. Since 4G such things like dark concepts have been all over the korean kpop. I used to think of the cute concept as mostly just boring; not so much degrading, and these days I love me some stayc teddy bear. It was actually the more mature GG concepts I didn't f with, and it was more just that it always looked like it was made for hetero men, and I'm not one, so hey, it's good. I'll look elsewhere, everything can't be fore me.; I've always admired girls generation; knew they were talented, good singers, and very beautiful, but they and some of the more mainstream GGs from the time used to look to me like the rockettes. A line of 8 - 12 or more young women with their legs hanging out, high heels that made it impractical to dance, all wearing identical costumes, and music that was too slow and "boring" for me. But I know now that I just wasn't exposed to enough kpop to know what I was talking about. I knew of 2ne1, but not f(x). Furthermore as a younger woman back then, I just didn't have the perspective I have now. Now I can see how momoland and other silly experimental concepts can be very camp. I don't take everything seriously. So my appreciation for girls gen, 2nd G, cute and or mature GG material from back then is actually fun, and at this point there is almost a nostalgia. Sorry about my prattling on. I really enjoyed your commentary.
First off, thanks for the comment! Secondly, I completely see where you’re coming from! I was super bias against many artists in the past mainly because I had pre-judged a lot of them before really giving them a chance. I could acknowledge that they were talented but that their music wasn’t for me. These feelings were usually changed after randomly stumbling across a song I liked by them and then it was downhill from there, lol. It takes me time to fall into some artists/groups sometimes. Also, that rockettes comment made me giggle 🤭
I agree that it wasn’t as bad as some people were acting like it was. I mainly put them here to point how random and sudden Weeekly’s concept change was at the time. That’s why I believe it got such a mixed reaction. If they had gradually matured them toward that sound, I feel like it would’ve been received better.
Oh i agree. It was sudden, but half of the girlies i think really pulled the concept off. The song isn't, like, amazing, but that chorus really is! @@amber_kae
I guess I'll make this its own comment. This is not pro or against anything you said (and a lot of it aligns in some way), but just my own analysis of what's been going on for a long time. Essentially, none of these girl-crush concept group's girls are actually girl-crush type girls (with scant few exceptions). It's entirely a concept created by the men at the heads of these production companies to cater to American sentiments and get American teenage girl fans. It's not something Korean women culturally are, generally speaking. This is why it has always rung a bit hollow and why it is become stale as the culture in America, not Korea, has shifted. But this creates another problem. You have to keep in mind that everything, including the entire femboy aesthetic was created for much the same reason - KPop fans are, to an enormous degree, teenage girls. The makeup on men is done to make them appear younger, so that they can appeal to these fans specifically. (Look into Johnny Kitagawa and his JPop aesthetic, which is what this all derives from). There's very little in the way of other demographics, with one exception. Twice was meant to cater to Western men who are sick of their own Girlcrush/femboss-type media - and they did so successfully. But that's an exception. Most girlgroups have to appeal to girls to be financially viable, and they did not succeed at doing so within Korea itself (for the numbers they are looking for financially). And so, they were forced into girlcrush to appeal to the Western market of teenage girls. That's entirely why Blackpink became what it is, up to and including its obviously derivative of hiphop musical style. But that was a millennial cultural sentiment, and Blackpink was largely astroturfed by Millenials in charge of large platforms (Twitter has not had Kpop trend in Japan, for instance, since Elon took over - because those trending pages were always fake and a way to create fake hype to get real hype). However, millennials are getting old. They're tuning out of Kpop. And so a new thing must be made to appeal to Gen-Z, but I don't think that's even viable because Gen-Z is much more fragmented. Millenials were full on zealots in progressivism and feminism. Gen-Z is largely dissociated from culture and politics itself (as evidenced by what Tiktok is like - it has no cultural hegemony). There really is no one way to appeal to that, and I think just generally it's going to be very difficult to maintain the cultural status KPop has internationally for that reason. Things do still trend, but only if they're gimmicky enough to work for Tiktok. But that's not what fanbases were like - they didn't need those gimmicks, and gimmicks are like any cultural meme in that they are fleeting. (Think carameldansen.) Anyway, I just wanted to add some stuff. Take it for what you will.
I should add that, in fact, it's not even Gen-Z anymore. Gen-A is now the new upcoming teen generation. But everything that goes for Gen-Z goes double for Gen-A.
this feels less about femininity and more about maturity like twice targeting men and preteen girls while BP targets a different type of man and like 16 to 25 year old women
Is girl crush dead, tho?? I'd say aespa, NMIXX, XG, and in some ways even NewJeans are all girl crush groups, and some of them are HUGE (at least in East Asia). aespa in particular is pretty badass too - although men are largely absent from their songs (they're kinda irrelevant to their universe?), in those cases where the lyrics could be interpreted as about men, it ain't nice... basically "we will consume your soul and become even more powerful"!!!
as an american male, the two contrasting styles of girl crush vs cutsie is vey simple, girl crush feels more mature where as cutsie feels very adolescent. As an adult i am just not interested in watching "teens" and prefer watching mature idol, with mature concepts and themes. It is at the end of the day more relatable to me.
The thing is k-pop isn't for adults, it's like asking Disney Chanel to cater to adult men, k-pop is for teens who grow into adults along with their idols and move on from k-pop once their idols also move on from being idols
@@ichig0tchi "k-pop isn't for adults" ,, where ever has that been said or shown? Bc I am over 18, I should not be watching it. From a business perspective, that is just dumb. Why would you want to create something that basically turn off the largest block of people who can actually spend money on buying albums, buying merchandise, attending concerts. The last time I went to a k-pop concert there was a lot more adults than minors.
@@ichig0tchi While it’s true that K-pop idols are often marketed towards the youth (especially teens and tweens), I doubt the entire K-pop genre is exclusively for them. Without acts like Uhm Jung-hwa and Lee Hyori (ex-Fin.K.L), ‘adult K-pop’ wouldn’t be a thing. Part of the reason why “I-LAND” had contestants like &TEAM’s K and TEMPEST’s Hanbin was to reach wider demographics (especially older fanbases). Since the 2nd/3rd generations, companies began to realize that K-pop idols can be just as appealing to adults and children (teens included) alike.
Same. Even between my late teens and early 20s, it’s pretty obvious (in some instances) that I’m not the target demographic for most of the “cutesy” K-pop acts. I generally prefer less “cutesy” acts because they at least have some level of relatability for me.
No company loyalty whatsoever (K-pop included), but I kind of agree. YGE’s take on the “girl crush” concept has this edge that almost no other K-pop company does. Not sure about BABYMONSTER, but I especially feel it with BLACKPINK and 2NE1. Even if ITZY happens to be my 2nd fave girl group (after BLACKPINK), non-YGE brands of girl crush just don’t hit the same.
Bts was the one who opened the door…. Older groups tried to do something but Bts is the reason why your faves are being considered in nominations ….. even a member was called to open the World Cup….. 🤷♀️🤷♀️ these gg accounts always mention bts with bp but the success is not the same.
I think people just got exhausted with the irony of girl crush. "I'm badass, I do what I want when I want, I'm the best, you can't rain on my parade, I don't care what you think," all while being untrue. Female idols follow strict beauty and diet standards, strict schedules, can't date, can't go clubbing, can't go here or there, have to follow rules and be hyper obedient of they wanna debut, have to act a certain way on camera. And then sing about how they do what they want when they want? I think girl crush just started to feel ingenuous to a lot of people and fake and plastic, and it's just been falling out of favour the more kpop fans understand the irony of it all
Wow I honestly hadn’t even thought about the specific points you made in your comment until now. I always just thought that lyrics like this were silly because of how basic they were. I hadn’t considered the irony. They live such limiting lives where they are constantly being told what to do by their company and fans and then release songs that have them singing about how in control they are of their lives. I wish I had made these points in the video but you beat me to it, lol. 😂
@@amber_kae haha, it's ok!! I'm glad you spoke about it so I can share some thoughts. I'm not from America, I don't know how women are portrayed in adds like the ones you showed me, so it's nice that by making this video, you were able to open a discussion where we can learn from each other and share different ideas. Great video, by the way, I really enjoyed it
One example would be Everglow. After the company did not give them a comeback for more than a year they cameback with Slay and were all about breaking the rules, I mean, it's just rings hollow, especially when they forced Mia to cut her hair short. And a song like Itzy Wannabe, idols cannot be themselves, they have to be what the company wants them to be. It is hard to care about this women's empowerment message when companies do not practice that at all.
@fran529 completely. There's a whole different Adrenaline rush when you listen to I AM THE BEST by 2ne1 vs the 3rd gen 4th gen groups, simply because as you said, they ring more hollow
Yes I think that’s why (g)I-dle has found such great success, because it feels genuine like those are legit their experiences, the wave of female producers and songwriters from Elly of Exid to Soyeon from (g)I-dle to now seeing the itzy girls do their own stuff.
The success Soyeon has seen for her tittle tracks being the producer of her group has opened so many doors for other kpop girls, their companies see that it’s working and now they’re letting them be in more control of their image and music.
She is truly changing things around
I like all kpop concepts, girl crush included, but thank GOD the girl crush dominated era is over. There’s nothing wrong with enjoying being girly
Now if we can just get out of the tik tok era
Who said there was anything wrong with being girly though?
@@PinkiePies_Pie a lot of wrong people. I think the tide is changing though
@@PinkiePies_Pie A lot of people...? This video even went over that.
Lot of girl crush groups like Blackpink, (G)-idle and Itzy are still feminine.
Can't talk about girl crush without talking about 2NE1 & Blackpink's lead producer Teddy. It is ironic in a sense, because he is a man lol. But I always think back to his quote in Star News back in 2009, "I think that the music producer plays the part of setting a middle ground between what the composer was aiming for and the singer's intention. There were a lot of times when I was offered a large amount of money to compose and produce, but I turned the offer down because I didn't know that singer perfectly."
Teddy gets a lot of criticism of course, but I think that mentality is a lot better than other girl crush groups who seemingly have no say at all regarding their image. The concept is just imposed onto them regardless of whether they want it or not.
2NE1 also had a lot of input not always by choice, after all Crush their most current and last album was heavily pushed by CL and she fought tooth and nail to make it happen as well as certain songs she had penned on like the title track itself, they also had to make their own outfits for things because of reasons or buy them with their own money because reasons, mainly YGE was pretty poor when they debuted, even with BB's success three years earlier and I think the fact they had to claw their way to be where they were as a group it really solidifed the concept as more than just a concept for them. They were put down, seen as 'ugly' by the normal standards of both the era in kpop and the asian beauty standards as a whole. They were and are so loved internationally and probably domestically, because it was girls for girls and for people in a very anti-girl group norms, way. No one really does Girl Crush like them because for most it's a concept not a way to make their own niche, least imho.
But other groups which to me don't seem like they want to do it as a concept on main. Are where the burn out of the concept and it's overuse begins. This needs to be taken into consideration a lot more tbh by companies in kpop rather than chasing trends or trying to force junior groups into the moulds made by their seniors.
Groups should be able to evolve in kpop a lil more if a concept is not truly something that all members collectively enjoy. Solos exist for a reason. But companies have kinda burnt GC out as a concept by applying it to every group in the 3rd and 4th gen after it's popularity in 2nd gen.
TWICE being called antifeminist by prominent K-pop channels at the time while BLACKPINK was being uplifted for being the *one* good feminist gg was my least favorite era of K-pop. It's nice to see that liking a lot of girl groups isn't uncommon anymore. I like them both and both have had some seriously questionable lyrics (Teddy you're not seeing heaven), but it was incredibly annoying to see people not see the deeper meaning behind songs like Likey. To this day, some newer stans still lump bright concepts as corny while dark concepts are more mature. Songs like POP may sound cute, but their lyrics aren't Disney Channel or whatever the twitter streets like to call it now.
Also, I feel like K-pop can really go far if we and companies stop trying to give aesthetics a name and just go for the vision. I'm tired of people calling everything the newjeans-y2k look or when they were saying aespa was copying bp with their concept during debut.
tldr; We need stop trying to force lump mv and teaser aesthetics together. Thanks for the new video btw!
I think two things can be true: Cute concepts often are an infantalizing and objectifying version of femininity, and Girl Crush is often a simplistic and equally objectifying presentation of the same. The trouble is that both are disingenuous, corporate models of idealized gender developed mostly by older men with the express purpose of making as much money as possible. Under those conditions, it becomes incredibly difficult for an artist's/group's image, style, and sound to include any kind of nuance or originality. Everything will eventually be flattened into a one-dimensional, cookie cutter presentation of desireability (in any regard) from the perspective of the executive suite.
As much as I like some K-pop artists, more needs to be done to improve the industry (including creative freedom/autonomy).
this is a interesting thought
I mean what else needs to be said there ~
It's about reading the room lol more explicitly analyzing the current state of society, during the boom of gil crush concepts women (the target audience) were in the middle of a feminist (very shallow and liberal but that's another topic) awakening, it was all about girl bossing sexual empowerment and extreme cult to hair and makeup bordering on drag for daily wear. It was THE perfect moment to milk the "girl crush" but with the pandemic everything changed, extreme beauty slowed down and was replaced with comfort with simplicity, the "clean girl" was born, we started looking back on 90's classy minimalism so the concept must adjust to this new woman if they want them as a client base
You make some excellent points here! It’s interesting how much more toned down K-pop has become in just the past two years. I don’t mean toned down as if it’s gotten boring. It’s more so how visually and sonically cleaner a lot of it sounds. Before, I didn’t understand how people were distinguishing the differences between 4th and 5th gen mainly due to how subtle the transition was from one to the other. Now I’m thinking the differences came from how visually different they both are. Girl crush (and other concepts) have evolved somewhat from what they were in previous generations and this, I think, is what really signaled the change.
I like Gidle's take on girl crush the most. Firstly, it can be clearly seen from their career path how they CAME to it. They always had some edgy style, but Latata is nowhere as girl crush as Nxde. At first Queendom, then Soojin's big scandal - all this heavily impacted the group and the girls themselves. Tomboy alongside I never die album as a whole was a breaking point. It was full of fury, power, desire to win and prove everyone wrong. For Idle girl crush became a way of development, growth.
Secondly, it feels genuine with them. Probably because of Soyeon. She's a definition of girl crush imo: from her fierce stage presence to what she says and, more importantly, does. Self-producing is the most real girl crush thing that a group can do. It's one thing to act bossy on stage and the other one to actually be the boss. Moreover, all members are mature and like the concept they do. I have a big problem with, for example, Babymonster who are just kids trying to be badass. It feels so uncomfortable that it pains to watch.
Finally, I like how Idle do this concept. Girl crush is not in the centre of their comebacks, it's more of an overall feeling that connects all the parts together. Idle always try different music styles, different topics, different aesthetics. Unique approuch makes girl crush less overwhelming and way more interesting.
I feel like fans who joined kpop during 2016-2018 grew tired and couldn't relate to shallow "look at how bad I am" lyrics after having lived and experienced a little bit of life. One could argue that younger fans brought in streams but it's the older financially dependant fans who fill the stadiums and give these artists albums sales.
I've always been surprised how cuteness seems to be linked to the male gaze. As a women who grew up in America, I thought of the cute concept as catering to young women (like how Hello Kitty is marketed towards women). The cute concepts were what I liked most in K-pop and we don't really have that in Western music. Like, East Asian media in general feels allowed to be unabashedly cute and I've never stopped liking that part of it in my ~18 years of consuming it. Even being 30 now, it always felt right to me; I can't tell you why.
The girl crush concept often gets traced back to 2NE1 as they heavily popularized it in the 2nd generation of K-pop, but it would be a disservice to not acknowledge that if you look at their complete discography, their brand of girl crush is more than just flaunting their wealth and fame or "ain't no man gonna tell me what to do". Their biggest hits would seem to tell you otherwise, but looking at the bigger picture, 2NE1 had a LOT of introspection and vulnerability in their music that's simply lacking today, which you can see in title tracks such as Ugly and I Love You. 2NE1 is also unique in that they were a primarily girl crush group that would release intimate power ballads as flagship tracks every now and then, like It Hurts (Slow), Missing You, and the timeless noraebang classic, Lonely. These days, you'd be hard pressed to find girl groups who would promote ballads as their title track. Everything has to have a choreography. Everything has to be TikTok dance challenge ready. The occasional power ballad in the 3rd or 4th generation usually gets relegated to a B-side or at best, a pre-release single.
2NE1 has a very diverse discography that the term "girl crush" doesn't even begin to cover it. In relation to their image or how they present themselves as a group, I would say they embody the term fully. In relation to their music though, the term "girl crush" only truly describes part of what that they do. This separation of public image and lyricism is something that very few new artists are aiming for, let alone even aware of. In that sense, tracks such as LSF's "Impurities" plays more like a homecoming to the "bigger picture" brand of girl crush that 2NE1 pioneered, rather than a complete new evolution of the concept or genre.
I think that was directed more towards bp than 2ne1
I think girl crush made sense for 2NE1 in particular in a way that doesn’t feel gimmicky is bc it felt genuine. None of the girls seem like cutesy individuals. Even when Minzy some months back went on that TH-cam show where two celebs text without knowing who the other is and they slowly try to get to know and eventually guess who the other is, minzy after being revealed was told that she texts like a guy and I think (it’s a bit fuzzy it might’ve actually been a comment on the video) that minzy had said her and the other 2ne1 members talked like that with each other. And obviously women like all humans are multifaceted and you can wear lots of makeup, dresses and high heels yet still have a what in a traditional sense would be perceived as a masculine way of a speech, personality and/or interests but yea. They also just seemed less guarded/refined, like very upfront and open at least compared to their counterparts. They walked the walk and talked the talk when it comes to their music. Same with by extension blackpink, they are a bit girlier but the whole thing with girl crush is that you are more open and confident and you do what you want and I think at least some of the blackpink members kinda exude that (Lisa and Jennie for sure). They dress how they want, speak how they want for the most part. With a lot of these other girl crush groups or groups that did try, and maybe to no fault of their own, they don’t have that kind of attitude so it comes across as not genuine. Like sis you aren’t a bad bitch and that’s okay. Some of y’all are cute girl next doors and that’s alright there’s room for everyone.
That being said while I preferred girl crush, I still did like cute music. I liked twice and red velvet red music at their peak. But I do be listening to everything if it’s catchy I’ll eat it up
You pretty said what I’ve been feeling! Out of all the K-pop girl groups (so far), BLACKPINK and 2NE1 have special places in my heart. To me, their brands of “girl crush” have some layers of authenticity. Although members like Park Bom, Jisoo, and Rosé fall a bit more on the “girlier” spectrum, they don’t seem out of place. Instead, they show that you don’t have to totally eschew “girliness” to be “strong.”
@@PinkNintendoDuo87 yea I think the essence of girl crush is being a bit more outspoken and less refined and doing what you want. Even with the actions of the blackpink members, Jennie wears stuff that other idols wouldn’t be able to get away with bc it’s revealing, but she does it regardless of the hate she gets and I respect that. Or Lisa doing the Caberet show in Paris. And yea even park bom, jisoo, and rosé still fit even if not as much as the other members. I think YG groups did girl crush the best bc tbh all their idols/celebs already had that mentality of kinda just doing what they want. Bigbang winner and ikon had a lot more lax approach than their counterparts too. Even other acts like epik high. It only seems up until recently due to scandals that the company culture has shifted a bit.
_warning: long paragraphs_
I'm happy that we're finally having this conversation. When I was younger and coming into kpop, I originally had the same outlook on cute concepts and thought "hip hop" concepts were a better look for girls. I thankfully was also wise enough to realize that my prejudice was very unfair and didn't try the music before making such conclusions. Around this time, Gfriend debuted with Glass Bead and proved me wrong. It was a sweet and endearing concept but the lyrics were pretty different in it's approach - it's still a love song but the way it's written sounds like the "guy" is so lucky they like him. It gives off a "I want you so stop expecting me to change how I feel. You're so insecure." Ever since, I was a buddy.
And I came to the same conclusion that you did: there is no right and wrong way for women to portray themselves. As long as its for themselves, it is what being a woman is. There is also a layer of misogyny that reeks from how girl crush is put on a pedestal. I still remember back in 2017, when Gfriend was promoting Summer Rain, how a journalist on a podcast (a woman btw) referred to them as 'girls twirling in skirts for perverted old men' and kept being condescending just bc she didn't like them for what? That same shitty mentality of what is acceptable for women or not. Mind you, girl crush isn't even that different. Alot of girl crush songs still look for a man's attention, wearing striking makeup and clothing that men will also pay attention to; You bringing up 2NE1 is perfect because Blackpink unfortunately were created with the idea that they were the "prettier version" of 2NE1. Western groups like Destiny's Child had empowerment songs like Bills, Bills, Bills and Independent Woman but also songs like Solider (a song looking for a man), Cater 2 U (about catering to a man) and even with Survivor indirectly being a diss at former members of the group over favoritism in the group.
Like I'm not acting like any of these themes are wrong or nuanced, but some people really think girl crush specifically panders to them (which are mainly women) but to these companies its just to increase the catering pool outside of men who like edgy girls.
hip hop isn't a concept🙄
@@Storm-zp9zm that’s the point…
sorry I’m a baddie baddie baddie pretty little risky baddie is so catchy tho😭
You’re right! It is catchy and I also don’t hate the song even though it’s not my favorite IVE song. Every song has its place in the genre. I just find certain lyrics funny sometimes (either due to irony or context) and this goes for all music, not just K-pop. There are plenty of silly lyrics in music across all genres. So don’t think I’m telling you not to enjoy what you like listening to. This video was for pure entertainment, not to shame people for liking the things they like.
@@amber_kae rizz ness 😭😭
Wow, 2NE1 is the reason I got into K-pop, so it makes sense why I’ve always favored girl crush concepts, even now ahaha I love this analysis of a concept/sub-genre, would love to hear you talk about other areas of the music that you really enjoy~
Even within the “girl crush” sphere of K-pop, I just can’t get into everyone else’s approach. For me, the likes of 2NE1, BLACKPINK, and ITZY are more up my alley.
They're not adult girls, they're young girls who have the right to be silly and passionate and sometimes a little stupid, stupid boy around the boys they like, people always seem to want girls to mature too fast
I would love to see a part 2 of this video where you dissect the girl crush concept and sound through the groups, soloists, and labels who heavily portrayed it in different k-pop generations as well as its impact on the k-pop scene as a whole.
For me personally, Cube have the best girl crush concepts, songs, and artists with CLC, HyunA, 4Minute as well as (G)I-DLE. I know Lightsum follow more of a teen crush concept and their most recent comeback 'Honey or Spice' contains their most "girl crush" b-side called 'Light It Up', the 3 members who sing the song also fit the concept the best in comparison to the other 3 members who sang another b-side called 'Whoopie' which is a bright song.
That’s an interesting idea! Thanks! 🤔
@@amber_kae Of course!
Other than ITZY, I can’t really vibe with non-YGE takes on the “girl crush” concept (minus a few songs here and there). Sorry!
I personally also enjoyed the girl crush by Cube groups the most tbh. And that's thanks to the aura and talent of the girls. But also other things. 4Minute worked because they came out when Korea needed a concept like a girl crush, they debuted at the same time as 2NE1 after all. Plus they didn't make ONLY girl crush, with time they tried other things, right up to 2015 when girl crush started having a slow resurgence again. Then there's Hyuna who was Cube's fave child hence she had a lot more control over her stuff and she did write her own lyrics a lot that's why her stuff felt a lot more natural. She had a lot of experience of being sexualised since being basically a child and at one point she started using it as her armour. When CLC debuted they didn't go girl crush but tbh some lyrics for their title tracks weren't really that typical for cute girl groups like Pepe and No Oh Oh can be pretty deep if you dissect them. Then they transitioned to Girl Crush and that was thanks to Hyuna's help so we had the female touch. Yeeun also writes her own rap verses. I also know the members did give ideas for concepts because Sorn mentioned bringing whole Power Points to meetings. Black Dress & NO are such a great bangers with very ironic lyrics messages of which totally flew over people's heads, like NOONE really got what NO was about and I bet poor Soyeon (who made the song btw) was prolly facepalming hard. Me is about accepting and loving your own beauty which we love. And then Helicopter wasn't either about "I am badass and the best" but rather about not giving up and striving to be better. Which considering it was basically their disbandment song makes me cry. But I am happy that the members didn't give up and most of them still try their strengths in the industry. And of course Idle are the epitome of the new wave girl crush which isn't about JUST being cool but about speaking about their experiences as women in a country like Korea and in such a sexist industry too. When it comes to Lightsum, I was surprised Cube decided to stick to the Teen Crush because honestly the girls totally can pull off something harder/darker. Like if you watch their predebut dance covers on 1theK, OH BOY. But they also can do brighter things which would be fun if they did more mix up between the two. I loved Honey or Spice tho, it was something fresh and gave me the vibes of 2nd gen but those of f(x) on contrary. Although I am afraid they disappeared in the sea of Teen Crush and Cube is about to bury yet another great girl group again *sigh*. They really cannot read the room that following trends that are in full swing already isn't a good move, same thing happened with CLC.
Also sidenote: justice for Weki Meki being ACTUALLY the pioneers of Teen Crush cause that is when I saw the term first time used when they described their concept. Not ITZY as JYP likes everyone to think lol. Sorry for the longass comment.
Am I the only person who just goes like "is the music good or nah?" or is that just me?
The heavy focus with gen 4.5 going in gen 5, obsessing over lyrics, taking it far deeper than we should, is honestly what throws me off.
Unless the lyrics are straight up problematic, of course. Then you skip.
Agreed! Most times I don’t really pay that close attention to lyrics unless they are exceptional in some way that’s personal to me or if the song has something unique to say. This time, I just thought it’s be fun to analyze a concept and it’s different forms. If I’m being honest, most lyrics in K-pop are harmless.
"I'm a bad bitch and you can't tell me what to do" is such a great summary. I totally relate to this, I didn't like Twice at alllll because I was so used to girl crush, i hated the sugary sweet sound and look. But now I love them, their music feels like pure happiness. I hope 5th wave has a more evolved girl crush concept that is more like "I'm a bad bitch but you are too, let's be bad bitches together"
wow I just finished this video, and this is one of the most thoughtful and well balanced kpop videos I've seen in awhile. Thank you!!
Tbh all kpop concepts become cookie cutter at some point which is why cute, girl crush, and now the y2k concept are falling out of favor. Just like you said in 11:59-16:44, of companies and their producers need to do better job with these concepts, sounds, lyrics, etc.
Your voice and the music are so soothing, and I learned more about the girl crush concept! 💕
When 2NE1 did it, it was fresh and new. But it became stale and then the hate train came, as it comes for everything that gets mainstream. Another amazing video essay!
We are not yet mature enough to appreciate those happy songs of TWICE during those times. Once I reached that aged were I choose to find happiness I found it in TWICE and on my late 20's
your videos are always very interesting an captivating to watch
the new circle thing going around ur icon and expanding when u talk 😭 i used to watch the old one go round and around with the gradient it was so pretty
Lol, I’m sorry I changed it now. 😅
10:40 I definitely agree with this point. If you are a powerful woman or truly believe you are one, why would you need to shout it over and over again as if you're trying to prove something? True power can be seen and not said.
honestly, i hope girlcrush never comes back in k-pop. like i actually hate it so much. it's cringe, anoying and i genrally don't like the music that comes out from the concept. I used to think it was pretty okay as a new k-pop stan (when girlcrush was still pretty popular) but now that the industry is changing and i've got the taste of other music styles, i could'nt hate it more.
(sorry 4 my spelling btw idkkk)
Girl, this video is like my personal thesis statement. I agree with everything you just said 100%. It's like you read my mind.
Glad great minds think alike, lol. 😊
i’ve been listening to kpop since 2009 and a “stan” since 2016 and i’ve always disliked girlcrush - i’m not really sure why. i’m a girl from the west who adores cute, innocent, teen, school, and elegant concepts and i’ve always stuck out a bit in the international kpop fan sphere because of it. the only girl crush music i ever liked was 4minute’s discography 😭 i don’t hate on the genre because how could i hate on something that empowers other girls? but i’ve always wished the cuter and softer concepts were respected by the west in the same way that girl crush is
Very interesting and informative video! I finally feel up to speed on the various concepts. Thanks! 🎉❤
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching! 🥰
This is the reason why I particularly enjoyed Blackpink's "You Never Know" so much. it was completely different to what they usually release and so much more vulnerable which allows people to see them as a group and the concept of "girl crush" in a new light.
To be honest, I just listen to the music. Before watching this video, I knew the term girl crush, but I couldn't define it if asked to describe the genre. I like what I like and I don't care what the concept behind the music is if you make a good song, im gunna listen to it.
I don't understand fans that exclude songs or artists based on things like that, and with that being said, every time I see a video about K-pop fans, it is almost always toxic. Kpop fans hold idols to this insane standard and forget that yes, they are musicians and artists but more importantly, people. The whole if you don't like every song they release your not a real fan is stupid I'm sorry but every song released by your favorite group isn't perfect.
Honestly, same. Despite BLACKPINK and BTS being my all-time favourite pop groups, I’m not obligated to like every song they release (“Shut Down”>“Pink Venom” any day). While I do happen to like some TWICE songs (the less “cutesy” stuff), that doesn’t mean they’re my overall fave group/artist.
True girl crush is and always will be 2NE1.
I love cute concept and i don't like to compare cute concept to girl crush concept, i like aegyo when it's done well and i find it funny.
honestly... the cute concept does make me uncomfortable. i dont live in korea but they are ranked really low for gender equality. the cute concept, the idea of aegyo is not inherently bad but its often paired with tight clothes and short skirts, simultaneously infantilizing and objectifying. Korea's cultural context like aegyo is inseparable from its extreme sexism. especially when watching adult women playing dress up like high schoolers. But girl crush is also rough, tight outfits super sexual, but acting like they're doing it for themselves.
tbh i think le sserafim does the best combo (tho dont get me wrong they are super sexualized) but their harder songs like antifragile still has cute moments, and they go back and forth pretty regularly while maintaining a strong image
While I’m not against cuteness/girliness on its own, I REALLY dislike the rigid enforcement of it (especially regarding gender roles/norms). In the K-pop context, I feel some of the female idols fair better with concepts that are less cutesy or “girly” (same can be true the other way around).
Even as an Asian woman myself, there’s something about Asia’s cute culture that irks me. The only time I can tolerate such cuteness is when it doesn’t border on infantilization. Part of the reason why I’m a casual TXT fan is because their “youthful” concepts aren’t done in an “annoyingly cutesy” fashion.
That’s some great points for me (g)i-dle pulls it better that I don’t even consider it a concept it’s just them, I would recommend their b-sides moon, what’s in your house, Lucid, sculpture, polaroid and dark-x file you can truly pinpoint the rawness of their emotions all of their music is written and made by them, some of their views of love, fame and when Soojin left.
You can actually see the evolution of their way of thinking through their music it’s pretty cool plus they have such a rage of genres that you would find something you like at least
Its a lie , Its your own projection if you think that in girl crush concept , no one is looking for male attention when BP's songs does surrounds around male validation . And its really annoying when Non Koreans dont understand aegyo culture . In korean culture , aegyo is NOT limited to young women , grown men and even grandparents do aegyo ,It ks basically having a cute charn , i dont at like this excuse ' they rank low im gender equality ' this happens in many countries not just in Korea , Saying women do aegyo for male attention is projection and i am done with foreingers asking korean women not to do aegyo and making them responsible for pedo behaiviour of men , why always women have to take responsibility for men's actione ? Let women have fun , Its totally wrong to limit empowerment to one concept ,please do some research , comments like this just sounds like blaming east asian women . You are not doing any better than a patriach becuz you are still telling women to act a certain way . Being cute is nothing wrong and if Koreans think men and even old people can act cute , why will you foreigners make it weird ? Foreigners lack research thats it . You saying cute is not strong is wrong itself , there is no certain aesthetic that makes women strong , its the mindset , Wonyoung as been called pick me , weak and this and that only becuz she is cute , when in reality that girl is very strong . I am done with people demonizing cute concepts and acting as girl crush is strong when the lyrics are all about begging for male attention .
Examples of songs that I think are ACTUALLY empowering and feminist: Stereotype by StayC, Bad Girl Good Girl, Allergy by Gidle.
I think real feminism should be about women to be able to express them self however they like and it not taking away their personhood. Also to be able to admit that there are times you aren't strong, happy an that sometimes you might need some guidance, because you're human. A lot of "empowering" songs are about being "strong", not caring about what others think, being independent, being able to do things just like a man. But that's not realistic. That's like telling women that they can't express their emotions, never rely on anyone else than themselves, can never feel insecure, and that if you can't do something as well as a man, you're a failure.
Stereotype is portrayed in a light-hearted an girly way while Bad Girl Good Girl is more sexy. But both are empowering. GGBG is a song saying that even if a woman acts sexily, it doesn't mean that she's a sl*t or that she is inviting the men to do anything he wants with her. Underneath the sexy act, there is a real person, a good girl that has many sides to her and is just like any other girl. Tne sexy woman is just as worthy of respect as any other woman, because at the end of the day we are all just women, we're all just humans. All humans have the same basic needs, they just have different ways of dealing with, expressing and getting that need met.
Now, Allergy. It's a song about comparing yourselves to other women. Not in a toxic, "I'm so jealous so I hate you" kind of way, but a very real honest and vulnerable way. Everyone craves validation. In the song, they are expressing that they percieve these other women to be better, lovelier, sexier, and prettier. Even though they are all dolled up, they still feel like that, even popular girl Miyeon feels that way. If more women heard this kind of sentiment, they would realize that the person you hate because you're jealous is probably just as insecure as you, and the person who bullies you is probably doing it because of their own insecurities. In that way, we wouldn't see ourselves as so different from each other, and we wouldn't take the bad things other people put us through as seriously. Because we realize that it's not personal. And the person that did the bad thing might start seeing the victim as just another person who is more like them than they first thought.
Now none of these were girl crush concepts or powerful concepts, but I'm sure I could find songs with those concepts that I also find empowering. But the typical "I'm not like other girls" or "I'm so powerful, I'm so strong, I can do anything" songs are not a part of them.
I would die for a video essay that talks about the contradictory behavior this particular issue, how it expands on this girl crush versus cutesy concepts.
What I’ve seen in recent years is women being more comfortable with their femininity rejecting to be ridiculed for it, embracing songs from twice, new jeans snds and others that pander to a more traditional view of feminity.
Rejecting messages that appeal to what feels as girl crush who panders to some fake empowerment, just like movies that are made with female protagonist where there is a clear lack of women in the room and just panders to this very liberal idea of feminism.
But there is this interesting thing that happens to a group that doesn’t completely fit both
You could argue that (g)i-dle is a girl crush concept group but in reality is just them exploring their identity.
What I’ve seen is both of this m crowds reject (g)i-dle, this is very evident with the song Queencard while it has very visual and “non sense” lyrics that fit with the ideas of cutesy concept, the public demands of them to intellectualize it because they are used to the seriousness of their themes and don’t believe and idea could be portrayed in such a way, there for they get ridiculed by the same crowd who embraces cutesy, but because the song holds certain value and it’s not completely “dumb” the other crowd bashes it for making such a subject so light and says it’s not bold enough or groundbreaking enough to be considered a girl crush concept, those same people who love to praise hwaa for their amazing nuances, will completely miss the point of the song and praise any other group with this concepts without asking demanding any type of quality.
They fail to realize this are songs made by women for women, where you get criticized for standing in any line, because as a women exploring womanhood in this world no matter what you do you will not be enough, it feels like people completely lose their media literacy ability or are unable to look into what’s really happening in their videos or songs, even when nxde came out, one of the more groundbreaking songs for Kpop, westerners were bashing it for not being feminist enough or feeling it disingenuous thanks to the girl crush concept problem, failing to realize that there is no room for disingenuousness because it’s made by them, yes it’s a product but a very well thought out product.
Not only that but what a lot of westerners fail to realize when taking about (g)-idle is that the songs are not pandering to them, yes every kpop group wants to expand to other countries, but when the creator of this songs has specified that this songs are ment for a Korean audience I don’t think you as an outsider should have a say on the scale of how groundbreaking what they do is, specially due to how Korean women have talked about the importance of this songs to them.
I just feel like when taking about (g)i-dle people suddenly become very pretentious and out right contradictory, why is there such a high standard for them and no other kpop groups, I do wonder if it comes from misogyny.
And yeah it’s just pop music but I feel if we don’t question or look into what we like or the reasons we like it it somehow feels empty like I truly wanna gain an understanding of things that’s why it’s cool to read into them.
08:40 This is a bit under-complex as an explanation of Aegyo. Aegyo is more of a strategy to assert one's own interests. This is then not enforced through confrontation but rather through de-escalation. It is definitely a manipulative method to achieve your own goals and I don't mean that in a judgmental way.
It is a strategy from the weaker position and yes in a patriarchal society this is a strategy of many women. But it also makes sense because it is a very social strategy, which doesn't mean that it can't be abused.
12:30 btw. Creativity is such a thing. People are social creatures and you don't usually live under a rock. This makes it pretty impossible for anyone to invent something completely new without having already received some inspiration from others. That is the concept of culture. So this is by no means just inherent in the K-pop industry.
Always love your research and videos Lightsoup 😊
Thank you so much! ☺️
But before blackpink there was 2ne1 who has opposite concept of cute concept too, i said it because i know them and i know kpop since snsd and 2nd génération of kpop. i was a Snsd/Girls Generation fan, i love their cute concept specially Gee. Yes there is culture différences, i love cute concept not only in music, well received in Asia when in Western, people view cute concept, anime etc for children, when in Asia cute concept isn't just for children
My experience around twice is similar. I liked twice and girls generation and other groups' japanese releases or b-sides. Japanese releases from kpop groups always went harder. I don't think it was a political thing for me about how women should be, it was more about me believing the sound just wasn't lively and energetic enough. But in 4th gen I've had my eye's opened to a lot of twice and other girl groups I just didn't know about before. The industry growth has no doubt made more choices available, and many groups release several concepts and genres per year. There is almost too much to choose from now. 💕
I had the same experience with Twice.
I would describe it this way:
Girls Crush (mostly Blackpink for me): Is love at first sight. I fell hard and fast. But also fell out of love fast. Still like it, but most of the time I wish for something a little bit deeper & more innovative.
Cute Concept (mostly Twice songs in this case): are slow burn loves for me. It needed some time, but now I can't get enough of it, because I didn't over played them. Also the songs, eventhough most of them are cute, are very different & have diverse messages.
Don’t know about you, but I just can’t vibe with TWICE’s overall group brand. Despite liking some of their songs, I feel that some members fair better with less “cutesy” stuff (like Jihyo and maybe Nayeon, for example). Doesn’t help when JYP (the man himself) has this unsettling preference for girl groups; I’m saying this as an ITZY fan.
I love cute concept not only in music, well received in Asia when in Western, people view cute concept, anime etc for children, when in Asia cute concept isn't just for children
Oh no there's lots of asians who see cute concept childlike as most of the time the concept is just infantilization in disguise
@@CherrieJellyBeanie No, this concept isn't disgusting at all, it's a western view! A lot of asian love cute concept and being cute, it'son their culture, aegyo etc and it isn't disgusting!!! I love cute concept and i'm a mature old woman!
@@CherrieJellyBeanie Cute concept isn't disgusting at all!!! I'm a mature old woman and i love concept! You have a western point of view who doesn't understand cute concept at all!
@@CherrieJellyBeanie It isn't infantilization at all, it's from a culture, asian love cute concept, love aegyo, being cute isn't infantilization at all! Lol the western point of view
@@newjeansfan238 What western view? I'm literally an asian and there are lots of asians who find cute concepts uncomfortable (rightfully so)
I'd just add to my other comment, that what I had liked and related to about japanese kpop is more along the lines of what you are saying is generally "western"; the harder music, maybe some harder language, darker sleeker fashions, resembling what I associate with (retro) 90s. That wasn't popular in the US either. That's what I was comfortable with and what was actually missing in the U.S. market. Now what I'm talking about here I'm going back to 3G and maybe 2G, and this goes for BGs too. Since 4G such things like dark concepts have been all over the korean kpop. I used to think of the cute concept as mostly just boring; not so much degrading, and these days I love me some stayc teddy bear. It was actually the more mature GG concepts I didn't f with, and it was more just that it always looked like it was made for hetero men, and I'm not one, so hey, it's good. I'll look elsewhere, everything can't be fore me.; I've always admired girls generation; knew they were talented, good singers, and very beautiful, but they and some of the more mainstream GGs from the time used to look to me like the rockettes. A line of 8 - 12 or more young women with their legs hanging out, high heels that made it impractical to dance, all wearing identical costumes, and music that was too slow and "boring" for me. But I know now that I just wasn't exposed to enough kpop to know what I was talking about. I knew of 2ne1, but not f(x). Furthermore as a younger woman back then, I just didn't have the perspective I have now. Now I can see how momoland and other silly experimental concepts can be very camp. I don't take everything seriously. So my appreciation for girls gen, 2nd G, cute and or mature GG material from back then is actually fun, and at this point there is almost a nostalgia.
Sorry about my prattling on. I really enjoyed your commentary.
First off, thanks for the comment! Secondly, I completely see where you’re coming from! I was super bias against many artists in the past mainly because I had pre-judged a lot of them before really giving them a chance. I could acknowledge that they were talented but that their music wasn’t for me. These feelings were usually changed after randomly stumbling across a song I liked by them and then it was downhill from there, lol. It takes me time to fall into some artists/groups sometimes. Also, that rockettes comment made me giggle 🤭
Justice for Ven Para, though. That chorus bangs.
I agree that it wasn’t as bad as some people were acting like it was. I mainly put them here to point how random and sudden Weeekly’s concept change was at the time. That’s why I believe it got such a mixed reaction. If they had gradually matured them toward that sound, I feel like it would’ve been received better.
Oh i agree. It was sudden, but half of the girlies i think really pulled the concept off. The song isn't, like, amazing, but that chorus really is! @@amber_kae
I don't mind cute, but I don't like the higher vocal tone that usually goes with it.
I guess I'll make this its own comment. This is not pro or against anything you said (and a lot of it aligns in some way), but just my own analysis of what's been going on for a long time.
Essentially, none of these girl-crush concept group's girls are actually girl-crush type girls (with scant few exceptions). It's entirely a concept created by the men at the heads of these production companies to cater to American sentiments and get American teenage girl fans. It's not something Korean women culturally are, generally speaking. This is why it has always rung a bit hollow and why it is become stale as the culture in America, not Korea, has shifted. But this creates another problem.
You have to keep in mind that everything, including the entire femboy aesthetic was created for much the same reason - KPop fans are, to an enormous degree, teenage girls. The makeup on men is done to make them appear younger, so that they can appeal to these fans specifically. (Look into Johnny Kitagawa and his JPop aesthetic, which is what this all derives from). There's very little in the way of other demographics, with one exception.
Twice was meant to cater to Western men who are sick of their own Girlcrush/femboss-type media - and they did so successfully. But that's an exception. Most girlgroups have to appeal to girls to be financially viable, and they did not succeed at doing so within Korea itself (for the numbers they are looking for financially). And so, they were forced into girlcrush to appeal to the Western market of teenage girls. That's entirely why Blackpink became what it is, up to and including its obviously derivative of hiphop musical style.
But that was a millennial cultural sentiment, and Blackpink was largely astroturfed by Millenials in charge of large platforms (Twitter has not had Kpop trend in Japan, for instance, since Elon took over - because those trending pages were always fake and a way to create fake hype to get real hype). However, millennials are getting old. They're tuning out of Kpop. And so a new thing must be made to appeal to Gen-Z, but I don't think that's even viable because Gen-Z is much more fragmented.
Millenials were full on zealots in progressivism and feminism. Gen-Z is largely dissociated from culture and politics itself (as evidenced by what Tiktok is like - it has no cultural hegemony). There really is no one way to appeal to that, and I think just generally it's going to be very difficult to maintain the cultural status KPop has internationally for that reason. Things do still trend, but only if they're gimmicky enough to work for Tiktok. But that's not what fanbases were like - they didn't need those gimmicks, and gimmicks are like any cultural meme in that they are fleeting. (Think carameldansen.)
Anyway, I just wanted to add some stuff. Take it for what you will.
I should add that, in fact, it's not even Gen-Z anymore. Gen-A is now the new upcoming teen generation. But everything that goes for Gen-Z goes double for Gen-A.
this feels less about femininity and more about maturity
like twice targeting men and preteen girls
while BP targets a different type of man and like 16 to 25 year old women
Finally. We are talking about it lol.
Is girl crush dead, tho?? I'd say aespa, NMIXX, XG, and in some ways even NewJeans are all girl crush groups, and some of them are HUGE (at least in East Asia). aespa in particular is pretty badass too - although men are largely absent from their songs (they're kinda irrelevant to their universe?), in those cases where the lyrics could be interpreted as about men, it ain't nice... basically "we will consume your soul and become even more powerful"!!!
I GUESS YOU NEVER HEARD OF PSY!!! HE IS THE 1ST KPOP IDOL THAT AMERICA LOVED!!!
as an american male, the two contrasting styles of girl crush vs cutsie is vey simple, girl crush feels more mature where as cutsie feels very adolescent. As an adult i am just not interested in watching "teens" and prefer watching mature idol, with mature concepts and themes. It is at the end of the day more relatable to me.
The thing is k-pop isn't for adults, it's like asking Disney Chanel to cater to adult men, k-pop is for teens who grow into adults along with their idols and move on from k-pop once their idols also move on from being idols
@@ichig0tchi "k-pop isn't for adults" ,, where ever has that been said or shown? Bc I am over 18, I should not be watching it. From a business perspective, that is just dumb. Why would you want to create something that basically turn off the largest block of people who can actually spend money on buying albums, buying merchandise, attending concerts. The last time I went to a k-pop concert there was a lot more adults than minors.
@@ichig0tchi While it’s true that K-pop idols are often marketed towards the youth (especially teens and tweens), I doubt the entire K-pop genre is exclusively for them. Without acts like Uhm Jung-hwa and Lee Hyori (ex-Fin.K.L), ‘adult K-pop’ wouldn’t be a thing. Part of the reason why “I-LAND” had contestants like &TEAM’s K and TEMPEST’s Hanbin was to reach wider demographics (especially older fanbases). Since the 2nd/3rd generations, companies began to realize that K-pop idols can be just as appealing to adults and children (teens included) alike.
Same. Even between my late teens and early 20s, it’s pretty obvious (in some instances) that I’m not the target demographic for most of the “cutesy” K-pop acts. I generally prefer less “cutesy” acts because they at least have some level of relatability for me.
only YG can do girl crush concept seriously.
No company loyalty whatsoever (K-pop included), but I kind of agree. YGE’s take on the “girl crush” concept has this edge that almost no other K-pop company does. Not sure about BABYMONSTER, but I especially feel it with BLACKPINK and 2NE1. Even if ITZY happens to be my 2nd fave girl group (after BLACKPINK), non-YGE brands of girl crush just don’t hit the same.
However, that’s not to say that YGE (or any other K-pop company) don’t have their flaws.
Kejpo0op
Bts was the one who opened the door…. Older groups tried to do something but Bts is the reason why your faves are being considered in nominations ….. even a member was called to open the World Cup….. 🤷♀️🤷♀️ these gg accounts always mention bts with bp but the success is not the same.