Not only do I still wanna see The Thief and The Cobbler complete the exact way that Richard envisioned, but I'd like to see it in 4K restoration it would look incredibly phenomenal!
I feel like we’d miss too many finer details if it were on Imax because of the screen distortion. I’d much rather see it on a flatscreen to see every possible beautiful movement.
@@PirateJohnson Didn't know I still qualify as a child even though I'm 20. Feels nice to be young again. And yes, to me, and evidently several others, the thief having a voice is highly amusing along with dialogue that would fit pretty much every modern meme. Simply because I enjoy a different version than the one you enjoy does not mean I am immature personally, nor is anyone else who enjoys that cut. Seperate taste lol
Why does no one ever mention the harem throne. It's the one aspect of one eye that keeps me coming back to his character as a peak of brutal villainy. This man is such a barbaric force on the edge of this desert that he has enough of a harem to not only make himself a Hoe Throne, but each of the women are acrobatic enough and strong enough in their own right to support One Eye's weight in full plate armor. Which is kinda hot, not gonna lie.
Me and my cousins watched this as kids. I always forget about it but think about it fondly. We (being Black) made the joke that Tack - the cobbler - finally got some lotion. So for the whole movie he was ashy and couldn’t afford lotion. That was all of ours thinking.
That was wonderful. I can definitely see both sides to The Thief and the Cobbler, and I think there are no villains to the story of its production. It was a combination of unfortunate circumstances and I feel both immensely sorry for both Williams and Calvert. Also, I'd like to note that in the Princess and the Cobbler, Tack has two distinct voices provided by Steve Lively - his soft, boyish one when speaking and an older, British-sounding one where he's reminiscing or soliloquiying. What's with that, I wonder? Rest in peace, and thank you, Richard Williams.
Also, on the subject of the Thief having a voice, for some reason I always imagined that Rik Maeyll's voice could have suited him, if it were necessary for him to speak at all.
I don’t even know what I can say to describe the visuals. Zigzag in the Camp of the One Eye is my favorite single sequence in all of animation that shows how the medium works in the best way. All you had to do is have Zigzag introduce himself to One Eye and propose an alliance. But there’s this chaotic, elaborate card trick, a part where he abuses his pet with fire, this amazing shot with the entire camp dancing and moving about shown through a closeup of One Eye’s… eye. Zigzag’s face is amazing, his hands move so creepily, his conjuring tricks are hypnotic. One Eye makes a thrown out of his uh… wives? None of it… NONE OF IT had to go that hard or be that creative or detailed or thought out in terms of character. But that’s what animation can do to the most mundane of moments, and it’s so beautiful. It’s just two guys meeting in a camp, but I’m so thrilled every time to reach it.
Yeah I think a lot of people are just starting to realize how much we should appreciate animation and especially the old ones and how much work goes into it Even the ones that are done on pads and PCs today are even incredible and they make it look easy. I know that it's gotten easier for animation but it's still is a struggle and lots of work and to all those people who do all the animations out there even little ones I thank them. 🥰👏
I think there's more to this movie than the visuals. This movie is basically analogous to 1930s modernist poesy, where the writers would try to envoke some sort of spiritual experience within the reader, rejecting their craft having any coherent point (political message for instance) or sometimes even sense. Just because the characters don't have rich internal conflict within them like in a Dostoyewski novel, doesn't mean that it's a bad story (bad meaning here a failure to involve the reader or viewer emotionally). I could see Thief and the Cobbler being transferred into a great psychedelic novel, depending on the author using language well. We can look at The Old Testament, which in certain circles of the western philosophical tradition was interpreted very symbolically. What I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't look at movies or any art for that matter as a rigid structure that needs to tick 20 or 30 pretty arbitrary boxes (character arcs or other Aristotelian metrics of what constitutes as good art). Classical rules of art can be broken and I would argue that ,,Thief and the Cobbler" breaks them with utility in mind. One could say that the movie not having any depth within the characters serves as a good motor of showing beautiful visuals - the director is practically screaming to not focus on the story, but rather encourages the viewer with beautiful scenery and vibrant characters to get sucked into a wonderous atmosphere of mysticism. Anyways, fantastic video nevertheless, just wanted to share my perspective.
I knew this film existed and that it had a complex production history, but I wasn't sure where to watch it. I stumbled across the reconstructed version on youtube and came here straight after watching it. Your video is incredibly funny and insightful, and it shined some light on this incredible work that I had been curious about. Thank you!
I think what's really phenomenal about this film is nowadays when I watched it again from the re-cobbled cut, I found myself saying "This really looks like a computer animation, and you could more easily do it that way." I then realized this shit was done before ANY of that. It doesn't make me thing of an animation by hand and more of an animation by computer... in the 70's and 80's. That's absolutely inspiring.
the shot of the soldier made me laugh out loud because of how the general was just shouting random nonsense over this poor man with 50 arrows in his back trying to mount his somewhat reluctant horse. I'm really glad he extended that scene. Very nice video. When you started talking about Matthew Broderick I literally fell out of my chair and am now paralyzed from the neck down thanks a lot
I'm so happy I have only seen the recobbled cut. I love the fact that it's so far away from disney and it really does make the mute characters all the more charming and forces the viewer to pay attention to all the details. also love the idea that ethnicity and huminoid elements and accuracy are sacrificed for the sake of character and esthetically pleasing shots
It really just strikes me as a passion project at the end of the day. Not something made to be sold and be easily consumable for a general audience but for those who love animation and the style just the general vibe of the whole affair which then singles out a very small slice of the population. It's one of those creations that wasn't a product for the masses but primarily for the creator, and when it's all said and done when you're making something like that it's never enough for the brains of the operation because it could look so much better in the mind's eye, and it'll never be what anyone really expected out of it if they even expect anything of it all. It comes across as one of those movies that were there no equal or similar film to it, it would stand alone as this cult icon, more so than it must already, because of all the aspects that pull it from the genre and grouping it usually falls into to stand alone as it's own entity.
I know the Miramax version is not the true vision, but it has a special place in my heart. Loved the inner dialogue from Jonathan Winters for the Thief. Just watched it the other day and all his scenes had me dying of laughter.
I like your delivery and humor a whole lot, and a lot of this video is very accurate, but some important parts of it are inaccurate, in my opinion. There are, I think, some common misconceptions with this film that I addressed on the channel of a TH-camr called Animat recently. Dick was often criticized as insane and a perfectionist for wanting to reanimate scenes that had already been animated in the 70s and 80s, but these versions were often extremely rough and not up to the standards of the 1990ish production. The emerald scene at least looks okay, but as you note, it really stands out as being in the old art style, and shows WHY all this stuff had to be reanimated. Dick also had to redraw all the old Nasrudin-era (or later) storyboards and layouts during the 1990ish production. This led to a misconception that there were no storyboards until 1990ish, repeated in Persistence of Vision. He had still been using the old boards during the two decades when this was just a side project without funding. The models for Tack the Cobbler and Princess YumYum weren't finalized until the 1990ish Warners production, when the film had funding. Their scenes are disproportionately unfinished compared to The Thief and Zigzag and the like, and boards for their scenes may not have existed at all until the famous storyboards done in 1990ish for the workprint. This also allowed these characters to be in more of a 90s style. Tack has more of a 60s "Kool Aid Man" design in the early work before 1989 and the Princesses are not very distinctive compared to the sexier final Yum Yum design. All the finished color animation of Tack and Yum Yum looks brilliant and it's a shame there's not a lot more of it (and that some footage was finished but not included in most cuts- I salvaged a few very rare shots for the Recobbled Mk3, some of which are in A Moment In Time as well). You really let Calvert off the hook for disrespecting the film so thoroughly in his "finished" version that it became unrecognizable. My take on Fred Calvert was that he was all too keen to take over, and helped sabotage the Warner production by saying Williams was out of control and that he could do it cheaper. Calvert had a lot of his own ideas and it would have been simpler to just finish Williams' intended edit.
YOU. ARE. BRILLIANT... THIS! IS BRILLIANT! I just watched the recobbled version as my very first watch of this film, and as I watched it, I wanted to do a review so people could know about this! Firstly, you beat me to it. Secondly, you are clearly more experienced with creating break downs of films, and finally, you have obviously seen this film than once so you seem to know it on a personal level. Thank you. Watching this video directly after the film is so fulfilling.
The animation style is also a product of the time it was started in. It has that Heavy Metal/Fantastic Planet vibe to it while also being it's own thing obviously. Williams' longing to finish it his way reminds me of Phil Tippet's Mad God (but Mad God will likely get completed).
The Thief is my favorite character in this movie. He's such a complete force of nature: he has a single braincell and he's using it to maximum capacity to steal things - regardless of the situation.
That scene with Thief and War Machine went on for so long I couldn't believe it. I saw the most complex over the top animated scene I have ever seen and it wasn't some 30 seconds fragment, it was solid part of the movie itself! The only reaction I had was: "Wow".
It’s art! meant to be appreciated, interpreted, criticized, laughed at etc. it’s a man putting his love and appreciation into something and sharing it with the world.
I will be honest, this film is one of my favorites because of the art and plot, even though it is technically unfinished. I would like, someday, for someone to finish the animation, so we can see it the way it was intended.
This is such a fantastic video; I guarantee you it's gonna hit the algorithm some day and people will come to your channel in droves. I hope you continue uploading!
Nailed it. At the end of the day it's a narrative medium, and impressive animation on ones won't save a lackluster script. Love Williams, his artistry is unquestionable, but this is a real case of losing the forest from the trees.
23:37 it's worth mentioning that this revisionist history. In Japan, Ghost Stories was well liked with anime fan rankings placing it higher than other anime from the same time like FL;CL. While it wasn't a huge financial success, it was well liked at the time. But saying it was hated in Japanese makes the story of the American dub more interesting, even if it was ultimately not true.
18:46 the long 10 min war machine scene you were talking abt was the actual proof of concept, which is why it’s so detailed. It went over budget and it pass its due date (which seems to be the theme here)
The animator Felix Colgrave animates in a similar style to this. He also spends a lot of time making his animations (check out his animation "Double King" here on youtube)
Even though Secret Of Kells is partly inspired by Thief and the Cobbler, nothing about the passing of Richard Williams really matters because of the following bible principle: "I saw all the works that were done under the sun, and look! everything was futile, a chasing after the wind."(Ecclesiastes 1:14)
Great analysis and l fully comprehend the work you put in to this survey. I can hear your heart…and… your spot-on impression of Ira Glass had me clawing my ears out the whole time.
This video’s finally explained this weird series of events to me about one of my favorite childhood movies, thank you. I actually really liked the Miramax version as a kid, I thought the thief’s voiceover was the funniest part of the film. It probably wouldn’t live up to my expectations today but it’s definitely a fond memory from my childhood.
I really appreciate your ability to take a more nuanced look at the situation surrounding this film's production. It's easy to frame this whole debacle as a poor starving artist getting fucked over by greedy producers and having his baby stolen, but reality is never that simple. At the end of the day, you're still creating a commercial product that needs to be finished sometime during the century and can't just keep existing in a money-hoovering stasis. I don't believe the decision to finish his project for him was done out of malice or greed, but necessity.
It's been years since I've ever thought of the movie. I've had a VHS or DVD (cant remember much) somewhere of this thing. I used to love this so much and I'm glad to hear about it again
First off, thank you so much for doing a review of the animation in this film! I always appreciated the art style because it was so different. I watched the one where the Thief is narrated and never thought too much of it. I do recall, though, maybe seeing the silent version? Having the characters constantly talk never struck me as too much, but you do bring up a good point: talking fills in the gaps, and doesn't leave much to the imagination. Plus, funny voices keep kids entertained, though I always found the voice acting AND the art to be entertaining. Anyway, thank you again. Stay safe!
I very much appreciate the view of the Miramax cut They gave it a very charitable look that actually makes alot of sense within the context It completely changed my view on a movie I thought was tragically mismanaged into one that was mismanaged to at least TRY to appeal to general audiences Not a situation I wish on anyone in animation
I don't mind the Cobbler talking if it means going the Mr. Bean route of communication, since he later spoke at the end. As for the Thief, don't know how out of place the voice would be if there was a scene where he rides a make-shift plane, and the ending has him steal the film.
It was a unique and beautiful experience watching this as a child. I'm so glad I've found it as an adult. Artists like this inspire me to stick to my creative goals too.
A great dissertation on the film; I would however would have liked a summation of which is the best version for what reasons--It kind of got lost on me switching back and forth between it all. I understood one did this, one did that, but it might have helped refresh the narrative in the final act.
So, Tack is a silent film character, mainly based off Charlie Chaplin, that is why he looks that way. Basically, he's supposed to be monochrome, and even has the eye makeup used in 1920s cartoons to make the eyes stand out more.
I recognize The Thief and the Cobbler even though I'd never heard of it. As soon as you showed it, I got flashbacks to tons of tons of old VHS tapes that had ads for The Thief and the Cobbler
Just so you know, you mentioned the similarities between The Lion King and Kimba, but that entire topic is a huge can of worms. Basically Disney didn't copy Kimba at all, and the only similarities are completely surface-level. I recommend watching YourMovieSucks's video on the controversy
Yup, one of those pieces of anime revisionist history without much evidence but people take for fact purely because of how often it gets repeated and makes for a better story. Ironically this is also the case for the "Ghost Stories was bad until the American dub" story. It turns out the Ghost Stories was well liked on release by Japanese audiences. At the time Japanese review aggregate websites even scored it higher than lasting classics like FL;CL.
I stumbled upon your Demetri Martin video and I absolutely fucking love your content. I immediately went on the internet to try to find any more to devour along with what's here. If there is any, please let me know. Also please keep making stuff. It's really great.
The saddest thing with Ghost Stories being disrespected is that the quote about Ghost Stories bombing in Japan is either a blatant lie or a mischaracterization born of ignorance. Ghost Stories didn't bomb in Japan, it was based on a series of bestselling children's books. Think something similar to Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark but focused on Japanese folklore and urban myth. As such the anime was quite successful and still sees reruns in Japan in its unaltered state to this day. As for why the dub exists as it does, I'm not sure, my best guess is the management stopped caring because at the time the dub was made the dubbing company ADV Films was already near bankruptcy.
35:19 are you kidding me? Besides Zig Zag, which you've already gone on about; both the Thief and the Cobbler ooze character. They don't need to talk for them to be extremely charming. This movie has plenty of arcs and suspense, too many to count. Epics don't have a message, they don't need to say anything. Art doesn't need to say anything and this movie doesn't either. 36:12 I'd say it more serves as an example of what can be achieved when you choose to prioritize the medium by which you tell a story over the story itself. The original Arabian Nights story was amazing, and by turning it into what "the Theif and the Cobbler" is, you get something just as amazing but totally different and new.
As much as I cherish the workprint/Recobbled Cut, I find it more satisfying in the Miramax version when King Nod rejects Zig-Zag's request to marry his daughter by laughing in derision. Also, not gonna lie, the added Brigands' song (while utterly pointless) is a genuine bop.
I've tried to figure out the name of this movie for years and I just couldn't find it. Now if I can find out the name to this game I played for a little while in gamestop years ago.
@@TheSunshineVault all i can remember about it was you played as a woman and had to solve puzzles that would involve machines that used gears kind of like old tinker toys. As far as to what system it was on I couldn't really say and from what I can remember about the box is the woman riding in a train, I think it was on the back.
Amazing video!!! My only disagreements - I LOVE that rough scene of the Thief and the Diamond; it does look noticeably more simple but I think it nevertheless works very well, and comedically. Though I personally think the clash of source video, quality, etc is what really makes the "final" version so I see your point about an execs point of view. - also, I think Yum Yum had some character in the original! Or at least, about as much as anyone else. She's a bit of a flawless type sure but I think she holds her own. I liked how she was proactive in looking for the witch. Again sick vid!! I watch this a lot
There was a small sho r t on YT that was just all Tack, and then I looked up the name of the film and it brought me here. At first I thought it was a completely Turkish animated film
I was recommended a Ghost Stories drinking game video, and a day later I get the directors cut of The Thief and the Cobbler recommended. I then click this video on the side and finally realize how the information gathering algorithm got me here.
I only just discovered you channel, but two videos in and I'm hooked. I share your awe and appreciation of traditional animation, and would love to see your take on Son of the White Mare.
I first saw this movie via the shitty dvd release but luckily there was no sound because I'd lost my computer speakers. I just remember seeing the richard williams animation and thinking "who the FUCK made this Disney!???" It was so surreal and beautiful and abstrac t.
Not only do I still wanna see The Thief and The Cobbler complete the exact way that Richard envisioned, but I'd like to see it in 4K restoration it would look incredibly phenomenal!
I feel like we’d miss too many finer details if it were on Imax because of the screen distortion. I’d much rather see it on a flatscreen to see every possible beautiful movement.
@@pogicus89 Mmm. Good point.
Is there actually any chance that this film will be picked up? I just saw the Recobbled Cut and would love to see the finished piece T-T
My brain might explode trying ti take that all in on such a gigantic screen.
it's on youtube
The thief in the (inferior) Miramax version sounds like he’s about to steal the krabby patty secret formula.
But it's funny lol
As a child, he was my favorite character, and now as an adult, knowing the history of this film, it makes me cringe.
@@LoryskaEntertainment cringe is funny tho
@@bruhlaro5416... No... No it isn't, kid.
@@PirateJohnson Didn't know I still qualify as a child even though I'm 20. Feels nice to be young again. And yes, to me, and evidently several others, the thief having a voice is highly amusing along with dialogue that would fit pretty much every modern meme. Simply because I enjoy a different version than the one you enjoy does not mean I am immature personally, nor is anyone else who enjoys that cut. Seperate taste lol
Why does no one ever mention the harem throne. It's the one aspect of one eye that keeps me coming back to his character as a peak of brutal villainy. This man is such a barbaric force on the edge of this desert that he has enough of a harem to not only make himself a Hoe Throne, but each of the women are acrobatic enough and strong enough in their own right to support One Eye's weight in full plate armor. Which is kinda hot, not gonna lie.
Also, the throne women seemingly execute One-Eye with their asses in the original version. Which is kinda... something.
@@devinmorse9112 NGL wish that was me
"His never ending war against the female waistline"
DEAD
IMMORAL >:*O
“She sings a song about not wanting to be exactly what Richard Williams drew her to be” got me
This is an amazing break down of the tragic background of this film.
Me and my cousins watched this as kids. I always forget about it but think about it fondly.
We (being Black) made the joke that Tack - the cobbler - finally got some lotion. So for the whole movie he was ashy and couldn’t afford lotion. That was all of ours thinking.
Me too
Lmao 🤣
Lol
That was wonderful. I can definitely see both sides to The Thief and the Cobbler, and I think there are no villains to the story of its production. It was a combination of unfortunate circumstances and I feel both immensely sorry for both Williams and Calvert. Also, I'd like to note that in the Princess and the Cobbler, Tack has two distinct voices provided by Steve Lively - his soft, boyish one when speaking and an older, British-sounding one where he's reminiscing or soliloquiying. What's with that, I wonder?
Rest in peace, and thank you, Richard Williams.
Also, on the subject of the Thief having a voice, for some reason I always imagined that Rik Maeyll's voice could have suited him, if it were necessary for him to speak at all.
@@tobbs5410 the inner monologue was pretty funny to behold, though.
Now this is just downright depressing. Really hit the nail when you said that it was like a baby being taken away.
Can we talk about king One Eye's teeth? They're terrifying
Shark teeth or something
I don’t even know what I can say to describe the visuals. Zigzag in the Camp of the One Eye is my favorite single sequence in all of animation that shows how the medium works in the best way.
All you had to do is have Zigzag introduce himself to One Eye and propose an alliance. But there’s this chaotic, elaborate card trick, a part where he abuses his pet with fire, this amazing shot with the entire camp dancing and moving about shown through a closeup of One Eye’s… eye. Zigzag’s face is amazing, his hands move so creepily, his conjuring tricks are hypnotic. One Eye makes a thrown out of his uh… wives?
None of it… NONE OF IT had to go that hard or be that creative or detailed or thought out in terms of character. But that’s what animation can do to the most mundane of moments, and it’s so beautiful. It’s just two guys meeting in a camp, but I’m so thrilled every time to reach it.
Seeing that whole scene of the old woman just throttling the thief pretty much had me dying.🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yeah I think a lot of people are just starting to realize how much we should appreciate animation and especially the old ones and how much work goes into it Even the ones that are done on pads and PCs today are even incredible and they make it look easy.
I know that it's gotten easier for animation but it's still is a struggle and lots of work and to all those people who do all the animations out there even little ones I thank them. 🥰👏
I think there's more to this movie than the visuals. This movie is basically analogous to 1930s modernist poesy, where the writers would try to envoke some sort of spiritual experience within the reader, rejecting their craft having any coherent point (political message for instance) or sometimes even sense. Just because the characters don't have rich internal conflict within them like in a Dostoyewski novel, doesn't mean that it's a bad story (bad meaning here a failure to involve the reader or viewer emotionally). I could see Thief and the Cobbler being transferred into a great psychedelic novel, depending on the author using language well. We can look at The Old Testament, which in certain circles of the western philosophical tradition was interpreted very symbolically.
What I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't look at movies or any art for that matter as a rigid structure that needs to tick 20 or 30 pretty arbitrary boxes (character arcs or other Aristotelian metrics of what constitutes as good art). Classical rules of art can be broken and I would argue that ,,Thief and the Cobbler" breaks them with utility in mind. One could say that the movie not having any depth within the characters serves as a good motor of showing beautiful visuals - the director is practically screaming to not focus on the story, but rather encourages the viewer with beautiful scenery and vibrant characters to get sucked into a wonderous atmosphere of mysticism.
Anyways, fantastic video nevertheless, just wanted to share my perspective.
I knew this film existed and that it had a complex production history, but I wasn't sure where to watch it. I stumbled across the reconstructed version on youtube and came here straight after watching it. Your video is incredibly funny and insightful, and it shined some light on this incredible work that I had been curious about. Thank you!
I think what's really phenomenal about this film is nowadays when I watched it again from the re-cobbled cut, I found myself saying "This really looks like a computer animation, and you could more easily do it that way." I then realized this shit was done before ANY of that. It doesn't make me thing of an animation by hand and more of an animation by computer... in the 70's and 80's. That's absolutely inspiring.
This has got to be the most concise and well put together reading on the topic of the thief and the cobbler.
the shot of the soldier made me laugh out loud because of how the general was just shouting random nonsense over this poor man with 50 arrows in his back trying to mount his somewhat reluctant horse. I'm really glad he extended that scene. Very nice video. When you started talking about Matthew Broderick I literally fell out of my chair and am now paralyzed from the neck down thanks a lot
The witches scene is so much more important than given credit for, it carries real world knowledge.
I'm so happy I have only seen the recobbled cut. I love the fact that it's so far away from disney and it really does make the mute characters all the more charming and forces the viewer to pay attention to all the details. also love the idea that ethnicity and huminoid elements and accuracy are sacrificed for the sake of character and esthetically pleasing shots
It really just strikes me as a passion project at the end of the day. Not something made to be sold and be easily consumable for a general audience but for those who love animation and the style just the general vibe of the whole affair which then singles out a very small slice of the population. It's one of those creations that wasn't a product for the masses but primarily for the creator, and when it's all said and done when you're making something like that it's never enough for the brains of the operation because it could look so much better in the mind's eye, and it'll never be what anyone really expected out of it if they even expect anything of it all. It comes across as one of those movies that were there no equal or similar film to it, it would stand alone as this cult icon, more so than it must already, because of all the aspects that pull it from the genre and grouping it usually falls into to stand alone as it's own entity.
I know the Miramax version is not the true vision, but it has a special place in my heart. Loved the inner dialogue from Jonathan Winters for the Thief. Just watched it the other day and all his scenes had me dying of laughter.
I like your delivery and humor a whole lot, and a lot of this video is very accurate, but some important parts of it are inaccurate, in my opinion. There are, I think, some common misconceptions with this film that I addressed on the channel of a TH-camr called Animat recently.
Dick was often criticized as insane and a perfectionist for wanting to reanimate scenes that had already been animated in the 70s and 80s, but these versions were often extremely rough and not up to the standards of the 1990ish production. The emerald scene at least looks okay, but as you note, it really stands out as being in the old art style, and shows WHY all this stuff had to be reanimated.
Dick also had to redraw all the old Nasrudin-era (or later) storyboards and layouts during the 1990ish production. This led to a misconception that there were no storyboards until 1990ish, repeated in Persistence of Vision. He had still been using the old boards during the two decades when this was just a side project without funding.
The models for Tack the Cobbler and Princess YumYum weren't finalized until the 1990ish Warners production, when the film had funding. Their scenes are disproportionately unfinished compared to The Thief and Zigzag and the like, and boards for their scenes may not have existed at all until the famous storyboards done in 1990ish for the workprint. This also allowed these characters to be in more of a 90s style. Tack has more of a 60s "Kool Aid Man" design in the early work before 1989 and the Princesses are not very distinctive compared to the sexier final Yum Yum design. All the finished color animation of Tack and Yum Yum looks brilliant and it's a shame there's not a lot more of it (and that some footage was finished but not included in most cuts- I salvaged a few very rare shots for the Recobbled Mk3, some of which are in A Moment In Time as well).
You really let Calvert off the hook for disrespecting the film so thoroughly in his "finished" version that it became unrecognizable. My take on Fred Calvert was that he was all too keen to take over, and helped sabotage the Warner production by saying Williams was out of control and that he could do it cheaper. Calvert had a lot of his own ideas and it would have been simpler to just finish Williams' intended edit.
I agree with you 😄
Very well said Garrett. I loved Richard Williams and all his projects.
why do you copy and paste the same wall of text over and over again on every ttatc video like we get it
@@tobbs5410 LOL
You are an hero, this film is a great piece of art!
YOU. ARE. BRILLIANT... THIS! IS BRILLIANT! I just watched the recobbled version as my very first watch of this film, and as I watched it, I wanted to do a review so people could know about this! Firstly, you beat me to it. Secondly, you are clearly more experienced with creating break downs of films, and finally, you have obviously seen this film than once so you seem to know it on a personal level. Thank you. Watching this video directly after the film is so fulfilling.
The animation style is also a product of the time it was started in. It has that Heavy Metal/Fantastic Planet vibe to it while also being it's own thing obviously.
Williams' longing to finish it his way reminds me of Phil Tippet's Mad God (but Mad God will likely get completed).
13:40 okay, the Andrew Jackson reference made me laugh so hard my vision began backing out around the edges. Well done!
I’m so glad you covered this! This was something we went over in my animation courses and it needs so much more love for what it is. Great vid
The Thief is my favorite character in this movie. He's such a complete force of nature: he has a single braincell and he's using it to maximum capacity to steal things - regardless of the situation.
That scene with Thief and War Machine went on for so long I couldn't believe it. I saw the most complex over the top animated scene I have ever seen and it wasn't some 30 seconds fragment, it was solid part of the movie itself!
The only reaction I had was: "Wow".
It’s art! meant to be appreciated, interpreted, criticized, laughed at etc. it’s a man putting his love and appreciation into something and sharing it with the world.
I will be honest, this film is one of my favorites because of the art and plot, even though it is technically unfinished. I would like, someday, for someone to finish the animation, so we can see it the way it was intended.
RIP richard william, truely one of the master GOAT.
This is such a fantastic video; I guarantee you it's gonna hit the algorithm some day and people will come to your channel in droves. I hope you continue uploading!
Nailed it. At the end of the day it's a narrative medium, and impressive animation on ones won't save a lackluster script. Love Williams, his artistry is unquestionable, but this is a real case of losing the forest from the trees.
23:37 it's worth mentioning that this revisionist history. In Japan, Ghost Stories was well liked with anime fan rankings placing it higher than other anime from the same time like FL;CL. While it wasn't a huge financial success, it was well liked at the time. But saying it was hated in Japanese makes the story of the American dub more interesting, even if it was ultimately not true.
"Ok pretend you have a friend". I CAN'T DO IT!!!!
18:46 the long 10 min war machine scene you were talking abt was the actual proof of concept, which is why it’s so detailed. It went over budget and it pass its due date (which seems to be the theme here)
The animator Felix Colgrave animates in a similar style to this. He also spends a lot of time making his animations (check out his animation "Double King" here on youtube)
Having the Cobbler speak any time before the very end of the movie like the original is a crime
Keep up, really nice content! I rarely write something but seeing here such few people kinda hurts! Dont stop doing this :)
Even though Secret Of Kells is partly inspired by Thief and the Cobbler, nothing about the passing of Richard Williams really matters because of the following bible principle: "I saw all the works that were done under the sun, and look! everything was futile, a chasing after the wind."(Ecclesiastes 1:14)
Copying and pasting again.
Chasing the wind much?
Great analysis and l fully comprehend the work you put in to this survey. I can hear your heart…and… your spot-on impression of Ira Glass had me clawing my ears out the whole time.
This video’s finally explained this weird series of events to me about one of my favorite childhood movies, thank you.
I actually really liked the Miramax version as a kid, I thought the thief’s voiceover was the funniest part of the film. It probably wouldn’t live up to my expectations today but it’s definitely a fond memory from my childhood.
I really appreciate your ability to take a more nuanced look at the situation surrounding this film's production. It's easy to frame this whole debacle as a poor starving artist getting fucked over by greedy producers and having his baby stolen, but reality is never that simple. At the end of the day, you're still creating a commercial product that needs to be finished sometime during the century and can't just keep existing in a money-hoovering stasis.
I don't believe the decision to finish his project for him was done out of malice or greed, but necessity.
It's been years since I've ever thought of the movie. I've had a VHS or DVD (cant remember much) somewhere of this thing. I used to love this so much and I'm glad to hear about it again
You don't cease to make me giggle. I'm loving this video.
First off, thank you so much for doing a review of the animation in this film! I always appreciated the art style because it was so different. I watched the one where the Thief is narrated and never thought too much of it. I do recall, though, maybe seeing the silent version? Having the characters constantly talk never struck me as too much, but you do bring up a good point: talking fills in the gaps, and doesn't leave much to the imagination. Plus, funny voices keep kids entertained, though I always found the voice acting AND the art to be entertaining. Anyway, thank you again. Stay safe!
I loved the thief and the cobbler as a kid it was so great
Thank you
I very much appreciate the view of the Miramax cut
They gave it a very charitable look that actually makes alot of sense within the context
It completely changed my view on a movie I thought was tragically mismanaged into one that was mismanaged to at least TRY to appeal to general audiences
Not a situation I wish on anyone in animation
This is an impeccable video essay. Should have blown up, its crime that this only got 25,000 views.
Honestly I liked the mute character of the cobbler, I don't mind the thief having a voice but honestly the dialouge feels so out of place.
It is because it wasn't made to have Dialogue
I don't mind the Cobbler talking if it means going the Mr. Bean route of communication, since he later spoke at the end. As for the Thief, don't know how out of place the voice would be if there was a scene where he rides a make-shift plane, and the ending has him steal the film.
When I first watched the movie, I was thinking about the Cobbler’s skin tone as well.
I loved the Thief and the Cobbler, my family had a VHS of it when I was a kid.
Wonderful video please do more like this.
I watched the entire thing here on TH-cam a few years ago. I loved it.
This is the most beautiful film I've ever seen.
Very well put together video. Well done.
This vid had me rolling. Great breakdown of this unfinished masterpiece
It was a unique and beautiful experience watching this as a child. I'm so glad I've found it as an adult. Artists like this inspire me to stick to my creative goals too.
i watched it right before watching this, loved it. loved'um both!
How does this not have more views!? Amazing video!!!
A great dissertation on the film; I would however would have liked a summation of which is the best version for what reasons--It kind of got lost on me switching back and forth between it all. I understood one did this, one did that, but it might have helped refresh the narrative in the final act.
So, Tack is a silent film character, mainly based off Charlie Chaplin, that is why he looks that way. Basically, he's supposed to be monochrome, and even has the eye makeup used in 1920s cartoons to make the eyes stand out more.
I recognize The Thief and the Cobbler even though I'd never heard of it. As soon as you showed it, I got flashbacks to tons of tons of old VHS tapes that had ads for The Thief and the Cobbler
Just so you know, you mentioned the similarities between The Lion King and Kimba, but that entire topic is a huge can of worms. Basically Disney didn't copy Kimba at all, and the only similarities are completely surface-level. I recommend watching YourMovieSucks's video on the controversy
Yup, one of those pieces of anime revisionist history without much evidence but people take for fact purely because of how often it gets repeated and makes for a better story.
Ironically this is also the case for the "Ghost Stories was bad until the American dub" story. It turns out the Ghost Stories was well liked on release by Japanese audiences. At the time Japanese review aggregate websites even scored it higher than lasting classics like FL;CL.
I loved this. Great work.
I found out about this a couple of years ago, actually, and I'm always sure to share it at least once with my art friends.
something about no music and only dialogue makes this video so watchable
RIP Richard Williams
Bro I love your voice and even more so your words, def gonna sub
*I'm back*
Well the animation is super beautiful, so it had that.
I stumbled upon your Demetri Martin video and I absolutely fucking love your content. I immediately went on the internet to try to find any more to devour along with what's here. If there is any, please let me know. Also please keep making stuff. It's really great.
wonderful video, i loved it!!
Yooooo this channel is the bee’s knees. Can’t believe you only have 1k subs. Keep at it bro. You there’s no way you won’t be at 1m soon
Right?
28:42 That Caught Me Off Gaurd And Made Me Laugh
Okay that opening blew my mind
I feel like if this had been released as shorts like aeon flux, it'd be a classic. As a whole movie, it's just very exhausting to watch.
Brilliant!
The saddest thing with Ghost Stories being disrespected is that the quote about Ghost Stories bombing in Japan is either a blatant lie or a mischaracterization born of ignorance. Ghost Stories didn't bomb in Japan, it was based on a series of bestselling children's books. Think something similar to Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark but focused on Japanese folklore and urban myth. As such the anime was quite successful and still sees reruns in Japan in its unaltered state to this day. As for why the dub exists as it does, I'm not sure, my best guess is the management stopped caring because at the time the dub was made the dubbing company ADV Films was already near bankruptcy.
the video's about the thief & the cobbler, and you mention MST3K AND ghost stories??? instant sub
35:19
are you kidding me? Besides Zig Zag, which you've already gone on about; both the Thief and the Cobbler ooze character.
They don't need to talk for them to be extremely charming. This movie has plenty of arcs and suspense, too many to count.
Epics don't have a message, they don't need to say anything. Art doesn't need to say anything and this movie doesn't either.
36:12
I'd say it more serves as an example of what can be achieved when you choose to prioritize the medium by which you tell a story over the story itself. The original Arabian Nights story was amazing, and by turning it into what "the Theif and the Cobbler" is, you get something just as amazing but totally different and new.
Opening line and already I feel personally attacked.
the beatles yellow submarine right next to thumb dudes. every day i’m reminded my childhood was experienced by 1billion other people.
The art, the perfection, the eight wonder of the world.
One of my favorite videos on TH-cam, it’s WAY to good
“Pretend you have a friend”
*Sobs uncontrollably*
As much as I cherish the workprint/Recobbled Cut, I find it more satisfying in the Miramax version when King Nod rejects Zig-Zag's request to marry his daughter by laughing in derision. Also, not gonna lie, the added Brigands' song (while utterly pointless) is a genuine bop.
I only remember seeing this in a VHS preview
32:45 Watch YMS: Kimba the White Lion
It put a lid on the "Lion King is a Kimba ripoff" argument for good.
"There is SO. MUCH. DEATH. Imagine the world's largest Rube Goldberg machine built by Andrew Jackson." You earn a like just for that analogy.
I've tried to figure out the name of this movie for years and I just couldn't find it. Now if I can find out the name to this game I played for a little while in gamestop years ago.
Well let’s figure it out what do you remember about the game?
@@TheSunshineVault all i can remember about it was you played as a woman and had to solve puzzles that would involve machines that used gears kind of like old tinker toys. As far as to what system it was on I couldn't really say and from what I can remember about the box is the woman riding in a train, I think it was on the back.
13:38 slap sound effect had me laughing so freaking hard
Richard Williams: Needs Outside Help
Buena Vista Studios: "YOUR SOUL IS MINE."
I loved this movie so much when I was a kid, it breaks my heart that it didn’t turn out the way Richard wanted.
I’m 19. This video was made on my 37th birthday. Can’t wait for my bunker birthday
Amazing video!!! My only disagreements
- I LOVE that rough scene of the Thief and the Diamond; it does look noticeably more simple but I think it nevertheless works very well, and comedically. Though I personally think the clash of source video, quality, etc is what really makes the "final" version so I see your point about an execs point of view.
- also, I think Yum Yum had some character in the original! Or at least, about as much as anyone else. She's a bit of a flawless type sure but I think she holds her own. I liked how she was proactive in looking for the witch.
Again sick vid!! I watch this a lot
There was a small sho r t on YT that was just all Tack, and then I looked up the name of the film and it brought me here. At first I thought it was a completely Turkish animated film
I was recommended a Ghost Stories drinking game video, and a day later I get the directors cut of The Thief and the Cobbler recommended. I then click this video on the side and finally realize how the information gathering algorithm got me here.
I only just discovered you channel, but two videos in and I'm hooked. I share your awe and appreciation of traditional animation, and would love to see your take on Son of the White Mare.
I first saw this movie via the shitty dvd release but luckily there was no sound because I'd lost my computer speakers. I just remember seeing the richard williams animation and thinking "who the FUCK made this Disney!???" It was so surreal and beautiful and abstrac t.