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Funnily enough, in the game Payday 2, the police forces that oppose you sometimes have medics with them when you play high-difficulty heists, if you shoot one, your in-game criminal record updates with a violation of the Geneva convention, meaning you’re a bonafide war criminal as well as a notorious bank robber
I’m wondering how your heister is a war criminal? The medics go in guns blazing and is engaged in combat against armed robbers in a, you know, armed robbery. Not a war.
Civilized enough to have rules about killing each other, but not Civilized enough to, you know, not kill each other in the first place. Classic humanity.
Yeah I think quite early on in Human history, we realized it was inevitable, in so that being inevitable there should be rules applied to said inevitable
I’m not a medic, but I’m in the medical corps, and I was told it’s not against any laws to say that I’m a medic if I get captured. I asked the medics and they told me “If they make you treat their wounded just do your best.”
@Icouldntcomeupwithaname1212in 2024 it’s not a war crime anymore since ur using a drone. If u was in the proxy war u would 100% forget what war crimes are, u literally forget you can’t shoot a unarmed enemy when u watch Ukraine vids. Saying there are rules in war is just propaganda to make u comfortable for ur conscript
I was expecting the video to go into more detail about the benefits of upholding the treaty, or if it's just wishful thinking and trying to unrealistically bring "honor and chivalry" to soldiers fighting in wars. Putting the current wars aside, the main benefit that comes to my mind is basically: If you don't shoot the enemy's medic, then (hopefully) they don't shoot down yours, and both sides have a higher chance of keeping their soldiers. If one side disrespects this, then it comes down to the situation between USSR and the nazis (aka, if it's still alive and breathing, it gets shot down). However, I still have some questions: - Sure, the rule says it's not allowed to threaten, hurt or kill medics or hinder their work, but I think it'd be pretty difficult to keep soldiers from shooting the wounded enemy soldiers during battle or even after one side takes control of an area with wounded soldiers still there. Probably it really depends on how much the officer in charge cares about this rule and how much they can control their soldiers' behavior. - I wonder if one side often has the idea of dressing more soldiers like medics to be able to move more freely or get closer to the enemy for an ambush, and the consequences of such act. - I suppose many comments would argue that violating the rules of the treaty would make the country responsible be judged by the UN and sanctioned; However, while I admit that I could be interpreting current events superficially, these sanctions sound laughably useless in practice. Case in point, just take a look at current conflicts where civilians are targeted, starved, threatened and killed left and right. UN keeps "condemning" these "inhuman acts of violence", but I don't see any consequences coming to the nations responsible, since these acts not only continue to happen, but sometimes seem to be getting worse and worse.
I read a story where a German medic found a wounded American during WW2, treated his wounds, then hid his body under brush and leaves so the SS would not fund him. This gave Allies time to reclaim the area, find the American who stayed quiet despite his injuries, and get him proper treatment. It was found the Germans Medics treatment probably saved his life. American never found out who that medic was, but never forgot what he did.
Regardless if the story is true or false, in the climate of dehumanization of the enemy, there's always people that overcome the stupid propaganda to do the right thing.
9:10 Huge correction: This is not against the Geneva convention if the medic is not wearing red cross insignia. Medics are only protected by the laws of war when they are wearing the symbol. If they take it off, they are considered a legal combatant. This happened on the Western Front too, when American medics would take off their insignia when presense of snipers/SS were announced.
Problem is, like the Japanese, they didn’t care much about the Geneva convention. Better to be not protected by it and live, than to be under it’s “protection” only to get your grey matter splatered all over before anyone else’s.
Small corection/adition the red cross is not the only emblem that provides this protection the red cresant and the red diamond like the red cross on s whithe backgroubd are subject to the same rules under the geneva convention.
On the eastern front of World War II there were exceptions that were not specified in the laws, but were respected on both sides. Temporary truces were often concluded to collect the dead and wounded to prevent the development of unsanitary conditions. They also didn’t kill people who went for water.
Не знаю откуда взялась информация про воду (надеюсь не из фильма Сталинград), но когда советы Аджимушкайские каменоломни обороняли, за водой их мягко говоря не пускали
@@alex1tap-i9k информация взята из множества дневников и писем солдат. Стоит уточнить что правило не соблюдалось если за бойцами вёлся присмотр сверху.
Call me biased but I don't believe the Japanese were as sadistic as they were made out to be. The majority of them were conscripted from an early age, conditioned to be fearless and have unwavering loyalty to the emperor, and taught that compassion is a sign of weakness. Any soldier branded a deserter would be forced to redeem themselves (usually with their own blood) and any compassion displayed to westerners or those already branded a deserter would be met with consequence. The Japanese chain of command was different from our own. Court martial proceedings were generally swift, and if found guilty of desertion, the offenders were forced to commit seppuku to prove they were still loyal to the emperor. Japan deliberately targeted noncombatants, but only because they were afraid of the consequences. If they had a medic in their crosshairs and hesitated, they were viewed as spineless, cowardly, dishonorable, and unworthy of their status as warriors. These are all things they learned during their training. It can surely be unlearned.
My Dad was a WWII medic. He said no one on the front lines put crosses on their helmets as it gave the Germans an easier target. My Dad spoke very little about his time going through France. I expect he had undiagnosed PTSD. He also served in Korea.
My grandfather was a medic in Chorwon, Korea, 1952-53. It's part of DPRK now. He never spoke much of Korea, but I know for a fact he carried a rifle regularly. I've never seen such a good shoot in my life. Point being, he probably dealt death to avoid death. To both himself and his patients. You shouldn't harm a medic, no, but they are a great target during warfare. And people will always stoop to the lowest level to win a fight.
Ive been reading a lot about the Korean War recently. Im just a history buff in general. Those guys had the misfortune of being between WW2 and Vietnam, never getting their due respect. Salute to your grandfather, that was a tough war to be in, as is any war of course.
There is another reason to not shoot medics. It's sad, brutal, gruesome, but it must be acknowledged: wounding an enemy soldier is often better than killing him. Yes, killing him takes the enemy soldier out permanently, but any notable wound - the type of wound requiring a field-medic's attention - may _still_ take the wounded solder permanently out of combat, and _also_ require a continued drain on enemy personnel and resources to care for him for months to years, thus more of a total loss for the enemy than just killing him.
I once heard that landmines are often designed to maim not kill for precisely that reason. A burial uses far less resources than supporting an amputee for life.
my grandpa told me this was a thing in Yugoslavia. Landmines designed to wound the soldier in order to incapacitate one fighter permanently and a bunch more temporarily.
@@darthvector8076That's not mutually exclusive with wounding someone, though? Real Life is not like an RTS where there's an arbitrary cap on the amount of soldiers you can field, which only lets you train more when one unit is killed.
So in most video games that have combat, the basic strat is to violate the geneva convention by removing the healer so the other enemies can't keep on trucking you, and any monster that can actually raise their fallen comrades.
@@mirzapramudya1580Funnily enough, it violates the geneva convention to use red crosses for health pickups and the likes in video games and game studios have gotten letters for that. Thats why it's often a green cross.
As a retired Navy corpsman, you learn to remove all insignia to reduce the chance being killed by a sniper, and to maintain a close relationship with your marines.
Minor quibble, it was legal to detain medics to treat POWs and though their legal status was (like clerics) as detained and not POW - they were sent to treat/minister to prisoners. Even though US medics do not wear protective emblems they do carry the identification of a medic so if captured and disarmed it is up to the other party to decide which status to grant them. If they are granted medical status then Geneva applies both ways, and they are no longer a legal combatant and can't engage in combat. If you aren't wearing a protective emblem then you are (as far as as Geneva) a normal combatant that has more medical training than most.
Not only does it make them mad, but it colors expectations for what will happen if they surrender. Not only is anger more likely to make them brutal, but fighting to the death becomes more attractive.
@@ComradeOgilvy1984it also increases the consideration of "if I'm going down I'm taking you with me" So if you kill all the medics don't be surprised if the last thing that dying soldier does when you get close is pull the pin of a grenade.
If an enemy knows surender means death, then they will always fight to the death. War is terrible, so the least we can do is minimize human suffering as much as possible.
@@SlitWristDemigodthe drums were to keep the infantry lines stable and at a consistent pace. They had to shoot in a way that maximized volume of fire since smoothbore muskets are inaccurate af and that’s the main weapon armies of the time had.
5:08 I remember as a kid being told stories of my great great great aunt who served as a ambulance driver for the Germans during the First World War. Apparently she wasn’t terribly keen on those British pilots because they kept strafing her ambulance and purportedly on one occasion got out to shake her fist as they flew away, shouting something to the effect of “Are you blind?! Can’t you see the big Red Cross painted on top, you idiots?!”
@@Jack-yo2bc M’yes. Believe it or not, not everyone from the English speaking world hated all Germans back then. Especially when those young American men encountered feisty German lasses, like with my great great great uncle and my great great great aunt
Is that why the Biscarri massacre is well known? Or the fact that the Soviets were awful, even more so than the Germans? Please tell me again how "it's not a warcrime if you win the war".
@@RazorsharpLT "Or the fact that the Soviets were awful, even more so than the Germans?" - How were the Soviets worse then the Germans? I'm not arguing, just curious why you think that.
War crimes just make me think of 2 kids having a Pokémon battle with their Pokémon cards and one kid shouts before”No, don’t use your charizard he’s too op!”
I was shot at just as much as the infantry in Iraq and Afghanistan and that was a good thing! That means I did a superlative job hiding the fact that I was a medic.
Because you were fighting against insurgents rather than a legitimate army, therefore they would not have to abide by the laws of the Geneva Convention.
Insurgents themselves don’t fall within Geneva convention anyway and we rarely expected to be taken alive anyway, plus they’d often use civilian population to hide
@@aleksandrpaniutin4028ok mr “terrorist check in calendar” 🙄🙄 where’s that al shifa complex chief??? you hear about israel’s “where’s daddy?” AI software? it TRACKS “HAMAS MILITANTS” (which are usually just military aged men israel wants to shoot at) AND FIRES FROM A DRONE AT THEIR HOMES ONLY WHEN THEY GET HOME TO THEIR FAMILIES. go read a fucking book 🙄🙄
Another reason to follow this rule is because if any your guys get captured, the enemy's medic will be the one to take of them. Since the Japanese did not believe in surrendering, they had no problem killing American medics.
and there is the propaganda angle that which unforchanetlly for plenty of the japs the allies lived up to the propaganda. this is due to the japs fear or so and fought fenatically etc. and other reasons to as well.
They didn’t want their cities bombed, not knowing by deliberately violating the treaties, they enraged America enough to bomb their cities. They made their own self fulfilling prophecy, good riddance to Imperial Japan.
My wife’s grandpa was a corpsman in WW2, since I married into the family, he was (for some reason) more comfortable telling me stories than his blood descendants. He was on Guadalcanal and carried a 1911 for the duration of his service. The things he witnessed and survived were horrifying.
I think the reason why he was more comfortable with you is because if he messes up it won’t be permanent. There was a chance that she might divorce you or something along that line.
It's convenient to ban shooting officers while ordinary soldiers could die in waves. I'm glad, that this rule was changed, maybe this made them think more about throwing anyone for death
Part of the reason for that is that should the enemy make a conscious effort on killing officers whom were usually part of prominent families in the home country, it would also make peace talks more difficult because the people whose words actually carry weight would suddenly start taking the war personally and even if the King would like to sue for peace, it's a bit hard to do if everyone with wealth or some sort of title would be crying out for blood. Knowing this is the same for enemy, it is better if you don't kill them and simply capture them, as a letter from an imprisoned son has a bit of an opposite reaction to the peace negotiations, seeing that many would want to ransom their child and end the war quickly without making the enemy desperate enough to start executing hostages. You may think it's a bit silly or unfair, but it does often help de-escalate a conflict if you capture rather than kill the family of the movers and shakers. This is of course, more important when you fight a local war rather than your enemy crossing the sea to get to you.
The Japanese were among the first to actually target medics. In Vietnam, the concept of sparing medics went out the window. Removing the Red Cross doubled the life expectancy of the Medic. Removing the Medics bag and carrying his gear in combat pouches tripled the Medics life expectancy! This changed the character of the Medic. Pacifists have been known to volunteer to be combat Medics. They felt it was an opportunity to serve and still take the risks of those who actually fight. After Vietnam, a new breed of Medic / Corpsman rose up. Those who pride themselves on their ability to inflict wounds as well a bind wounds. This makes it dangerous for on to target a modern Medic for he will guard the life of his patient with his life weather the threat to the patient's life is a wound, infection, or enemy soldier
Yeah, I got caught up as a medical student in Chile during Pinochet stuff. I was the “medic” in a little village in the mountains for about six weeks. They treated me okay and I figured it was this Doctor Zhivago thing going on. I had only seen that movie a few years earlier and it was fresh on my mind. Always wondered if that was a real story..
Combat medicine in Vietnam is the ancestor of modern trauma medicine. In times past, very old or very young doctors were assigned to ERs and trauma was not considered a medical specialty. Ambulance crews (maybe) had first aid knowledge.
My Grandfather fought in Italy during WW2 and the Germans there shot at his ambulance in an attempt to steal his medical supplies. He put his driving skills to the test and out ran his pursuers.
@@Jack-yo2bc Not until the Allies occupied it, no. Benito Mussolini was a part of the Axis as well until the people of Italy revolted (with our help) and executed him.
A round landed somewhere close to Doc, it gets radioed back to arty, "You see that grid square?" "Yes sir." "I don't want to see it anymore." "Understood sir."
Medics are basically those who keep their decency for the longest time in war. Even if it’s hard. I tried to live up to that, that’s why i was a medic while in the military. I’m SO glad i didn’t had to show if i was good enough because there was no real war i had to serve in during service. I helped people, but i have so much respect for people who do this while something like WW2 is all around you…
It could be noted that Geneva convention apply even in case if other party is not a signatory of it. Moreover, USSR deliberately offered Germany to reciprocally apply this convention shortly after the war had started, but no answer was received.
Unfortunately in modern conflict, almost zero considerations are given for medics. I was a Hospital Corpsman with the US Navy. We technically always wear medical insignias because of our rate (job) but from the war on terror onward, terrorists don't play by the rules, so we have been armed and are expected to be a fighter first and a medic second.
Yea you rarely hear about medics in modern conflict as being protected I always thought that they removed it from the treaty but they didn’t it just people don’t care anymore
@@18Anakinit’s a very dumb thing to do, yeah spare their medics so they can potentially bring back more enemy combatants, I think not. Most of the things on the Geneva Convention make no damn sense whatsoever. Take no prisoners unless you plan on forcing information out of them. Attack higher ranked units if you can find them, to help disrupt their chain of communication. The people who can’t see these things are just dumb.
@@healer_btw5606 War is already brutal. The Geneva Conventions are about making it less brutal if possible, you idiot. The Western Front was less brutal BECAUSE both sides respected medics, and the Soviets actually requested that both sides followed the Hague Conventions. It was only AFTER inhuman barbarity of the kind you suggest that Soviet Soldiers committed such atrocities against German soldiers and later Axis civilians. Fine philosophy, dumbfuck, because that is the exact reason Germany and Japan lost the war. All of those things might gain you tactical advantages, but they will almost certainly cause strategic failures for your army, because not only will the enemy have no reason to treat you or your civilians fairly if you lose, they'll respond with just as much brutality. Look at what's happening in Israel and the Middle East after Gaza attacked civilians. Israel now has every reason to make it as brutal as possible for the civilians there. War isn't a game, and short-term successes can often lead to a LOT of long-term failures.
It's crazy how men fought in the same war yet depending on which front they came from, they wouldn't relate to each other. It genuinely seems like two separate timelines to me.
This video was inspired by "The Medic Who fought a War without a Weapon", In that video he discusses about a medical soldier named Desmond Doss who was a soldier who doesn't bring a gun during the world war. From that video, the soldiers are aware that the medic soldiers were frankly targeted because of the medical insignia in their caps.
there were apparently a lot of rumours circulated by the Japanese army psy-ops officers about American and allied medics. Things like they will change your blood so you are no longer Japanese, they castrate captured Japanese men, they perform forced abortions on Japanese and islander civilians, they have biological weapons to spread disease and cowardice, etc. This was on top of all the other propaganda being disseminated through the ranks to keep the soldiers loyal and willing to fight.
I remember being intrigued with this topic when I learned Stardew Valley had to update their clinic signage from a red cross to a green cross because it went against something pertaining to this in the Geneva convention. Delving into it some more made me have more respect for medics in general and field medics specifically. Knowing you stick out like a sore thumb and relying on the enemy to uphold their side and not target you must be nerve wracking and require a great deal of bravery.
Not just games, any usage of the red cross except by non-combatant medic forces and the RED Cross organization itself. That is why most ambulances have the Star of Life on them instead. In Europe some ambulances are operated by the Red Cross and so they can use the emblem. Also the Red Cross allows under license some things like First Aid kits. Technically if you are playing a war game that follows Geneva rules you could use the emblem. (like having a Hospital that you have to avoid targeting) What gets them upset is games where the rules of the game require shooting people with protective emblems.
I would never wear the arm band in theatre... I also would shoot back when shot at. Ohh BTW, I was a Grunt who transitioned to Medic and Radiographer with nearly 4x years in war zones.
@@BeardedChieftain Yes, you were likely a US medic who does not wear a protective emblem and is a combatant. The US would not use emblems even with an enemy that did respect Geneva - they like having one more combatant per squad. If you were TOLD to wear an armband (and some countries do this - like the UK) then you shooting would be a war crime. You still can defend yourself.
The reason why you don't shoot combat medics is because the whole squad knows that if they get hurt, Doc is their only hope of survival. An attack on Doc is an attack on the whole squad and they will take it personally.
yes, think about it, if you are attacking the whole squad, you are actively hurting them/killing a lot of them... but if you attack the doc and he die, the squad is STILL ALIVE AND NOW THEY KNOW THAT EVERYTHING GOES, so even if you surrender.. you WILL die.@@jeffreyblack666
@@fantomphlame5565 That entirely misses the point and just further highlights how irrational it is. You are saying they go insane and barbaric and brutal. So much so that they entirely ignore who they should be focusing on and instead just focus on a single person. So have a single person in a squad take out the medic, so the opposing squad targets them alone, while the rest of the squad then moves to a better position to take out that opposing squad entirely. And what if my entire squad all target the medic. Then what does the other squad do? Target all of us? Like they were doing before?
I mean, that's the point. Increase casualties and bait the enemy into irrational action. No medic means increasing the chance on wounded becoming casualties. It makes people either get mad or shut down making easy targets. It demoralizes the unit. Why do you think children are used as combatants and prisoners used as meat shields? The entire point is to "exploit" the humanity of your enemy. If an enemy has either enough people or political power, they know that those tactics can be done without personal consequence. It's war. It's only a crime if you "lose". This ain't a video game. This ain't fair and honorable combat. It's total warfare. They kill a medic with bullets, how is that any worse than starving them via blockade, disease or any waste with chemical warfare, flamethrowers, false surrenders, ect?
I was deployed with the US Army (I specify because I am a dual citizen and not born in the US) as an infantryman. In my experience the combat medics and corpmen are badasses. I love those guys. They are always the nicest people ive ever met but when the chips are down they will do anything, up to and including give their own life, to save another person. In my mind there's literally no higher calling on earth.
The Revolutionary War and the Kentucky Long Rifle is THE undeniable proof our Founding Fathers intended us civilians to have weapons equal or superior to the military. As your video points out, the accuracy and range of these rifles (which were used for hunting and owned by civilians) was a critical part of American victory. The founding fathers realized a time might come where civilians would need to "out gun" the military, which is why they chose the unambiguous language of "shall not be infringed".
Any historian that has legitimate degrees and formal education, agrees that the 2nd amendment was explicitly written as the "right to rebellion". Anybody who thinks civillians shouldnt own guns, is a bootlicker.
There’s an error in this video at 9:20; Desmond Doss did receive The Medal Of Honor however he received the Army version of the medal, That’s the Navy version
I watched a video from a US veteran where he said that there is no faster way to get in the forever box than shooting at a medic and that what the grunts are about to do to you will be brought up the next time Geneva has a convention.
Related to this, the RAF shot down unarmed and clearly marked air sea rescue planes during the Battle of Britain. How this affected the attitude of German soldiers in other theatres is up for debate.
@@TheManofthecross Sadly, not one of the RAF’s proudest moments. In response, Goering ordered retaliatory attacks, but the front line Luftwaffe pilots refused. At any rate, here’s some interesting reading: aviationtrivia.blogspot.com/2012/06/luftwaffe-seenotdienst-first-air-rescue.html
yeah they did, probably because Britain didn't really use their own air sea rescue planes and it was a war of attrition at that point so they didn't want to allow German pilots to gain experience
The Nazis were bombing civilian targets during the battle of Britain. Bear in mind they were also planning on gassing people I doubt the RAF shooting down air sea planes would have been a motivator to treat allied soldiers any worse. F the Nazis. They were not all literal Nazis. They were a legitimate enemy.
Medics in real life: I have immunity based on morality Medics in videogames: I am a very real threat to you and your odds of seeing your virtual family in this game
My dad was a medic on Omaha bwach and he said that by the second day he removed the cross from his helmet ecause he saw many with bullet holes in the middle of the crosse. I have read that in some armies the piper is also not a legit target.
During the Gulf War we adopted a protocol. Any Iraqi unit seen violating the Geneva Convention, we’d go to “Thermals” (thermal optics) as it was “impossible” to identify if they were surrendering. Meaning we never engaged troops that had surrendered. Whilst this may seem harsh it was in response to their disregard of the GC (like shooting at pilots bailing out). It was amazing how quickly they reinstated the GC.
Was gonna say that the Marines took a while before they standardized M1 Garands in WW2, but looking at the weapon shape yeah it's close to that of an M1 Garand that it's odd they gave it a bolt action animation.
That's not rules, that's basic morality. Wounded soldiers are no use in the war, therefore medics are no use as well. People's goal is to win the war, not to shoot civilians (and medics) for fun.
@@aeolianthecomposerbro forgot the part that tells us that rules come from morality. There is nothing good in wars, that's why it makes no sense that there are rules on it, and worse, thinking that people would follow them
@@mobiousgazer192 Noone is denying that wars are terrible. The point is, if there are wars, it's better to reduce the amount of unnecessary suffering as much as possible
@aeolianthecomposer No, if you are engaged in war, and you want to win, it is in your best interest to win as soon as possible regardless of how much suffering you cause. By sparing your enemy's most valuable personell, you are making your own victory so much harder and prolonging the war. Your soldiers experience more battle, the enemy soldiers are capable of battling more, and more bloodshed is caused. It makes no sense to follow these rules because it would only aid your loss while the enemy does whatever it takes to win. Unless you were confident you would easily win the war, there's no reason to go easy on the enemy.
@@cringelord2875 depends a lot on the game. For some it may be fine, but try that in TF2 or Planetside 2... in those, you dont kill the medic, you lose.
@@Goc4everYou forgot any country that ends in "an", North Korea, the Mexican, Columbian cartels(let's face it, they're a full on militarily organized force with numbers rivaling citizens in other countries), any military on the African continent, North Vietnam, China, The Wagner Group and a lot of their county of origin, (not anymore though 😂), Hamas, Al Quida, Syria...I can go on for DAYS, and WE are expected to play by the "rules"🤨. It's probably a good thing we sometimes DON'T💯
A very good friend of mine was a medic on Normandy. First wave,he also didn't want to carry a weapon. He said the Germans were shooting at them . He said he was the only man who lived through the day,from his boat. He also said he had a gun very shortly after they hit the beach. He also was in the Hurgon Forrest. Said war was sad State of humanity.
WW2 medics were taken as POW’s. I know because my moms now ex husband of 20 years had a dad who was a medic in world war 2. I guess he rarely spoke of it but we always heard one story about how his dad would wake up in the night from nightmares saying he dreamt he was back in that prison cell and heard the nazi’s outside speaking in German. He eventually got out and made a small chain of pharmacy’s in Wisconsin called Bentley’s.
My grandfather was also a WW2 medic in the British army medical corps. He was taken as a POW at Dunkirk because he stayed behind to look after the wounded who couldn't make it to the boats. He spent the next few years in the POW camp in Thorn castle in Poland.
7:20, I think I get what you’re going for with this line, but I don’t think the mass murder the Nazis did in the East flew in the face of their ideals for living room, it was what was required for them to pursue that plan. They wanted to expand the living space for ethnic Germans, but there were already people (Poles, Slavs, Jews, Romani, etc.) living there, so the Nazis saw too it that the space was ‘cleansed’ in order to be taken and used for the Aryan people.
This is a justification to you?? My complaint is I feel like the original video is taking unnecessarily neutral language when it should be more strongly denouncing the Nazis not just as hypocrites but evil! Edit: @twinzzlers @narzist
The only two games that I’ve played as a combat medic is battlefield 1 and 5. Though to be fair the medic has the best assault weapon in battlefield 1. I think it’d be a fun achievement in any game during those times if you got an achievement for killing a medic called war criminal or something like that.
My favorite medic is in squad. The distance between points and longer respawn times make medic super important for reviving teammates. Also smoke grenades are actually really important.
I think the true reason medics aren't carrying rifles is that rifles are cumbersome if you are treating a wounded. I carried a pistol during military service in Germany. The French medics however were armed with FAMAS assault rifles. I guess they had made some experiences during colonial wars.
Tell that to EU and US who are holding back Ukraine and force them to follow Geneva convention even tho russians don't do that. It's like a teacher punishing someone who was bullied instead of a bully. Makes not fucking sense
in way. more importantly: dampen the horrors of war, thus reducing mutual harm and protecting innocents. If war is fight according to the conventions, it also lessens mutual hate between combatants, thus hopefully making peace negotiations easier and new peace more long-lasting. a good thing to note as well is that lot's of the rules are based on self-interest, and that what made countries sign these treaties. No country has signed a treaty that promised to not use strategic nuclear weapons if they other side has already completely wiped their country of the map, even though if you're already dead just killing the enemy's civilians would be hurting innocents without military gain. But, it is in no one's interest to promise this, so there is no international treaty enforcing this. Protecting POW"s, however, very much is. Yo don't mistreat or murder POW"s. Not just because it's a warcrime. Not just because both you and your fellows have an interested in POW"s being protected in case you become POW's yourself. But also because the enemy knowing that 'surrender is safe' means they will actually surrender rather then fight to the death, which would increasing harm to your side otherwise. For 1 example: Eastern front in WW2: the German armed forces for the most part knew that the war was lost and the western allies would treat them fairly. So, they often surrendered instead of fight. They also knew the Soviets would mistreat them and any civilian population they captured, so they dug in and fought much harder, even when they already knew the war was lost, hoping that they could inflict as much harm on the Soviets as possible and that a relatively larger part of Germany would be captured by the western allies instead of Soviets. For another example: the recent Siege of Mariupol, where the soldiers of the Azov group believed that the Russians wanted to torture or execute them all anyway, so instead of surrendering like some other units did, they fought on for another month. That's not the only reason of course, but it certainly did harm to the Russians that Azov believed their rights as POW's would not be respected by the Russians.
@@JABN97yeah, I think not having to promise not to retaliate in case of a nuclear attack is deliberate, so as to discourage the use of nuclear weapons in the first place. MAD (mutually assured destruction) is one of the biggest reasons why nuclear arms aren't used in current day wars.
I remember a story about a medic who was treating people and his place was captured. The man he was treating was shot and the guy went apeshit. Literally killed a ton of people then was killed. Dude was awesome.
In the Finnish defence forces medics are taught the laws, then told to ignore them as the enemy will do that too. The medics are all armed and trained for combat. The important thing is to let the enemy fire the first bullet, then you're free to engage. Same with landmines; We train to use anti-personnel mines by training placing AT mines/whatever random crap the same way an anti-personnel mine would be used. Then when the war breaks out we are ready to withdraw from the anti-landmine treaty since the adversary has been proven to not care about it or any other treaties in Ukraine.
wounded soldiers are more problematic for the enemy, that the dead ones. When you think about it, it’s actually advantageous to leave the medic alone. It's taking up the logistics ( and possible 2 other soldiers on the battlefield, as stretchers), and later economy of the enemy country after war ( as they have to tend and support wounded, and disabled veterans ).
It is common wisdom in massively multiplayer games that when in a player-vs-player battle that the healers are priority targets. There's also an interesting history of computer games using a red cross in gameplay (usually either on simulated medics or in healing kits) and being contacted to remove such representations because the red cross is reserved for ACTUAL medical personnel and equipment, not simulated ones.
and i still think that's a ridiculous thing to ask video games to do. like, how am I suppose to recognise the red cross symbol if no one is allowed to represent it? I recognise it because of video games.
@@LeoBladiniits a little more xomplicated 1. res cross organisation just politely asks about it 2. its not exactly meant to be in a battle area. Red cross is also meant to symbolise safe spaces but in games they could be seen in med pacs on the battle field afaik its ok for characters
@@LeoBladini Don't worry, the military doesn't just give out weapons to random people and tell them: "You're a soldier now, good luck." There is actual training involved, training which amongst other things involves learning about the rules of war and how to distinguish legal targets from illegal ones.
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Hi @Simplehistory
Ok
Mr history where are you from?
First! NOOOOOOOOO dam u all!
No fair no fair 😢
Funnily enough, in the game Payday 2, the police forces that oppose you sometimes have medics with them when you play high-difficulty heists, if you shoot one, your in-game criminal record updates with a violation of the Geneva convention, meaning you’re a bonafide war criminal as well as a notorious bank robber
Lol
I’m wondering how your heister is a war criminal? The medics go in guns blazing and is engaged in combat against armed robbers in a, you know, armed robbery. Not a war.
you can also kill unarmed civilians, could be seen as homegrown terrorism@@Balls1335
wait…..
you aren’t supposed to shoot medics?
@@Balls1335oh hey an enclave member
Civilized enough to have rules about killing each other, but not Civilized enough to, you know, not kill each other in the first place. Classic humanity.
Yes I agree
just make war a war crime
Humanity is committing friendly fire lol
The age old young men dying because of old men’s problems.
Yeah I think quite early on in Human history, we realized it was inevitable, in so that being inevitable there should be rules applied to said inevitable
I’m not a medic, but I’m in the medical corps, and I was told it’s not against any laws to say that I’m a medic if I get captured.
I asked the medics and they told me “If they make you treat their wounded just do your best.”
Always wondered if Combat Medics were considered Immune since they don’t really have symbols on their personal I’ve noticed
Pretty sure it isn't against the law if you lie in war.
They don't get treated better, just so you know. My daughter is a combat medic. Avoid capture AT ALL COSTS. It will not help you.
@@American-Jelloso just off yourself then?
army nurse here, I don’t think whoever we’ll be fighting in our next war will give any flying fucks about the rules
TL;DR: just like firing upon an ejected pilot, shooting a medic is a warcrime, and is considered, and I quote from a friend, "Not cool, Bro!"
Jeneva convention classificies it as a bruh moment
@@aeolianthecomposer -10000000 aura moment
@Icouldntcomeupwithaname1212in 2024 it’s not a war crime anymore since ur using a drone. If u was in the proxy war u would 100% forget what war crimes are, u literally forget you can’t shoot a unarmed enemy when u watch Ukraine vids. Saying there are rules in war is just propaganda to make u comfortable for ur conscript
the ppl in the battle dont care bro. u got shot period. doesnt matter what clothes or job u have. do u really think this is real life? lmfao
I was expecting the video to go into more detail about the benefits of upholding the treaty, or if it's just wishful thinking and trying to unrealistically bring "honor and chivalry" to soldiers fighting in wars.
Putting the current wars aside, the main benefit that comes to my mind is basically: If you don't shoot the enemy's medic, then (hopefully) they don't shoot down yours, and both sides have a higher chance of keeping their soldiers. If one side disrespects this, then it comes down to the situation between USSR and the nazis (aka, if it's still alive and breathing, it gets shot down).
However, I still have some questions:
- Sure, the rule says it's not allowed to threaten, hurt or kill medics or hinder their work, but I think it'd be pretty difficult to keep soldiers from shooting the wounded enemy soldiers during battle or even after one side takes control of an area with wounded soldiers still there. Probably it really depends on how much the officer in charge cares about this rule and how much they can control their soldiers' behavior.
- I wonder if one side often has the idea of dressing more soldiers like medics to be able to move more freely or get closer to the enemy for an ambush, and the consequences of such act.
- I suppose many comments would argue that violating the rules of the treaty would make the country responsible be judged by the UN and sanctioned; However, while I admit that I could be interpreting current events superficially, these sanctions sound laughably useless in practice. Case in point, just take a look at current conflicts where civilians are targeted, starved, threatened and killed left and right. UN keeps "condemning" these "inhuman acts of violence", but I don't see any consequences coming to the nations responsible, since these acts not only continue to happen, but sometimes seem to be getting worse and worse.
I read a story where a German medic found a wounded American during WW2, treated his wounds, then hid his body under brush and leaves so the SS would not fund him.
This gave Allies time to reclaim the area, find the American who stayed quiet despite his injuries, and get him proper treatment.
It was found the Germans Medics treatment probably saved his life.
American never found out who that medic was, but never forgot what he did.
Probably replaced his heart with that of a super-baboons
@@Alak-Hul_DarkbladeYour such a baby, ribs grow back!
_speaks to archimedes_
*no they dont*
Just like in the movie hacksaw ridge. The American medic attended the wounds of a Japanese soldier.
Lies again? Marine Soldier High School
Regardless if the story is true or false, in the climate of dehumanization of the enemy, there's always people that overcome the stupid propaganda to do the right thing.
9:10 Huge correction: This is not against the Geneva convention if the medic is not wearing red cross insignia. Medics are only protected by the laws of war when they are wearing the symbol. If they take it off, they are considered a legal combatant. This happened on the Western Front too, when American medics would take off their insignia when presense of snipers/SS were announced.
Problem is, like the Japanese, they didn’t care much about the Geneva convention.
Better to be not protected by it and live, than to be under it’s “protection” only to get your grey matter splatered all over before anyone else’s.
Small corection/adition the red cross is not the only emblem that provides this protection the red cresant and the red diamond like the red cross on s whithe backgroubd are subject to the same rules under the geneva convention.
You mean Geneva suggestion?
@@rubenjanssen1672 absolutely, amazing addition. But I think those symbols were added after ww2
wikipedia says 1929 is the formal recognision of the red cresent. wich would be before ww2. the diamond is for sure after ww2 (2005)@@ThatMedi
" To take down your enemies' team, take out their backline mage and healers first "
- Sun Tzu, Art of War
amazing
@gmodGod963no it’s kinda…… idk
"Send the healers as bait, you dont need healers if you kill your enemies before they can do damage. DPS is everything"
- Sun tzu, Speedrunner
" Stop making quotes I never said "
- Sun Tzu, Art of War
@@keyboardtaskforcephi-3689 "i am speed, flank and spank."
- Sun tzu, German Army commander during 1940
On the eastern front of World War II there were exceptions that were not specified in the laws, but were respected on both sides. Temporary truces were often concluded to collect the dead and wounded to prevent the development of unsanitary conditions. They also didn’t kill people who went for water.
Не знаю откуда взялась информация про воду (надеюсь не из фильма Сталинград), но когда советы Аджимушкайские каменоломни обороняли, за водой их мягко говоря не пускали
@@alex1tap-i9k информация взята из множества дневников и писем солдат. Стоит уточнить что правило не соблюдалось если за бойцами вёлся присмотр сверху.
@@makro5514You mean if German soldiers had an SS officer supervising them, and Russians with a commisar.
"How did the Japanese view medics?" "Through Iron sights."
Call me biased but I don't believe the Japanese were as sadistic as they were made out to be.
The majority of them were conscripted from an early age, conditioned to be fearless and have unwavering loyalty to the emperor, and taught that compassion is a sign of weakness.
Any soldier branded a deserter would be forced to redeem themselves (usually with their own blood) and any compassion displayed to westerners or those already branded a deserter would be met with consequence.
The Japanese chain of command was different from our own. Court martial proceedings were generally swift, and if found guilty of desertion, the offenders were forced to commit seppuku to prove they were still loyal to the emperor.
Japan deliberately targeted noncombatants, but only because they were afraid of the consequences. If they had a medic in their crosshairs and hesitated, they were viewed as spineless, cowardly, dishonorable, and unworthy of their status as warriors.
These are all things they learned during their training. It can surely be unlearned.
@@M4A1BestGirl ... Unit 731?
@@MrEpIcAcC Okay, so I'm going to overlook A FEW war crimes committed by Japan.
Unit 731 and the Kempatai deserve nothing less than the death penalty.
@@M4A1BestGirlthe Chinese from ww2 would like to have a talk with you
which sadly makes me feel less bothered that the Americans viewed them through bomb scopes with atomic payloads.
Team Fortress 2 Players: I miss the part where that's my problem.
Actually since medic actively has shown that he will harm others that nullifies him from the qualifications
Tf2 characters are hired guns and are therefore not subjected to the rule of warfare.
To be fair, they're not even doctor, just mad scientists who happen to heal their allies with illegal technology
i got crits on the medic
I’m pretty sure most of the TF2 classes are war criminals regardless…
My Dad was a WWII medic. He said no one on the front lines put crosses on their helmets as it gave the Germans an easier target. My Dad spoke very little about his time going through France. I expect he had undiagnosed PTSD. He also served in Korea.
@UnitTracethat is like saying "if a tree crashed in a forest and nobody hears it, it never happened" it still matters, even if nobody knows about it.
I deeply appreciate his dedication to fighting to protect Korea. We'll never forget. Thank you so much.
Many WW2 vets never talked about their time. My mom was 45 before my grandfather mentioned he was at DDay
Respect for what your dad had to go through, may he rest in peace
@UnitTracewell your mind has definitely crashed, so that is a war crime!
"War does not determine who is right, only who is left"
the poppy war reference 🤔
What if someone doesn’t know their right from their left?
@@popcatwastaken I know I know
I'm just joking, sorry :P
In the left side of your brain there's nothing right and in the left side of your brain there's nothing right
@@popcatwastakenyou don't say..
Remember everyone: It's not a war if at least one war crime isn't committed.
Its also not a war crime if you win, just saying...
@@Lambda_111 Or if you are the ¨good guy¨
@@georgestain4491 History is written by the victors, ala the good guys typically.
It’s not a war crime the first time
And pin your war crimes to the loser, win-win
My grandfather was a medic in Chorwon, Korea, 1952-53. It's part of DPRK now. He never spoke much of Korea, but I know for a fact he carried a rifle regularly. I've never seen such a good shoot in my life. Point being, he probably dealt death to avoid death. To both himself and his patients. You shouldn't harm a medic, no, but they are a great target during warfare. And people will always stoop to the lowest level to win a fight.
Babou?!
Salute dude
Great appreciation to your grandfather from Korea
"you should probably shoot a medic"
"SAlUTe AnD ReSPEct"
Ive been reading a lot about the Korean War recently. Im just a history buff in general. Those guys had the misfortune of being between WW2 and Vietnam, never getting their due respect. Salute to your grandfather, that was a tough war to be in, as is any war of course.
There is another reason to not shoot medics. It's sad, brutal, gruesome, but it must be acknowledged: wounding an enemy soldier is often better than killing him. Yes, killing him takes the enemy soldier out permanently, but any notable wound - the type of wound requiring a field-medic's attention - may _still_ take the wounded solder permanently out of combat, and _also_ require a continued drain on enemy personnel and resources to care for him for months to years, thus more of a total loss for the enemy than just killing him.
I once heard that landmines are often designed to maim not kill for precisely that reason. A burial uses far less resources than supporting an amputee for life.
my grandpa told me this was a thing in Yugoslavia. Landmines designed to wound the soldier in order to incapacitate one fighter permanently and a bunch more temporarily.
I've heard that Vietnam booby traps follow the same idea of wounding rather than killing as well. I guess it is just an effective war strategy
And the training of a new soldier, of course, does not take away from the enemy a lot of personnel and resources for his training for months or years.
@@darthvector8076That's not mutually exclusive with wounding someone, though? Real Life is not like an RTS where there's an arbitrary cap on the amount of soldiers you can field, which only lets you train more when one unit is killed.
1:38 ah yes the AUTOMATIC SELF RELOADING MUSKET most used weapon in the Napoleonic era.
i think the intention was two different shooters, as they were a group of men
@datboi945 I don't see any other men
@@itsjustxme “morgan’s other men” is literally said as it happened, please watch the video 💀
It's just like the bolt action Garands at 9:02
@@xa_nder i literally fucking did but I only seen atleast 5 people not a whole line
So in most video games that have combat, the basic strat is to violate the geneva convention by removing the healer so the other enemies can't keep on trucking you, and any monster that can actually raise their fallen comrades.
To be fair
Videogame healers doesn't wear those red plus sign symbols which makes them legal combatant
Well if you get shot in real life you won’t be on the battle field within 1 minute of healing
@@aidansharp2447 also, no one can punish you for violations of the Geneva convention if everyone is dead
@@mirzapramudya1580Funnily enough, it violates the geneva convention to use red crosses for health pickups and the likes in video games and game studios have gotten letters for that. Thats why it's often a green cross.
@mirzapramudya1580 mercy from OW does
My grandfather, a WW2 vet, told me:
"You don't target the medic first. You target the radioman."
Lol thats what Germans said about Americans.
Because unlike the Wehrmacht, American GI's had much more freedom on where to spam artillery.
@@honkhonk8009 I think everyone said that.
At least until everyone got a radio.
Yes, the radioman is indeed a target, but so are the Commanders too.
@@SylvainSybaris commanders wont do shiet without communications
It's funny to me, considering that Hitler used to be radioman in ww1
As a retired Navy corpsman, you learn to remove all insignia to reduce the chance being killed by a sniper, and to maintain a close relationship with your marines.
Minor quibble, it was legal to detain medics to treat POWs and though their legal status was (like clerics) as detained and not POW - they were sent to treat/minister to prisoners.
Even though US medics do not wear protective emblems they do carry the identification of a medic so if captured and disarmed it is up to the other party to decide which status to grant them. If they are granted medical status then Geneva applies both ways, and they are no longer a legal combatant and can't engage in combat.
If you aren't wearing a protective emblem then you are (as far as as Geneva) a normal combatant that has more medical training than most.
killing medics doesn't lower morale, it just enrages the enemy unit
Not only does it make them mad, but it colors expectations for what will happen if they surrender. Not only is anger more likely to make them brutal, but fighting to the death becomes more attractive.
whoever touches doc gets the glock
@@ComradeOgilvy1984 From an enemy that already believes in fighting to the death making both sides equal.
@@ComradeOgilvy1984it also increases the consideration of "if I'm going down I'm taking you with me"
So if you kill all the medics don't be surprised if the last thing that dying soldier does when you get close is pull the pin of a grenade.
If an enemy knows surender means death, then they will always fight to the death. War is terrible, so the least we can do is minimize human suffering as much as possible.
European armies: “So we are in agreement we don’t shoot officers cause it’s mean”
American revolutionaries: skill issue.
no Shooting officers? can you explain?
USSR with
geneva conventions: "killing medics is a warcrime"
UK: "let's sink an entire hospital cruise ship then"
@@SlitWristDemigodthe drums were to keep the infantry lines stable and at a consistent pace. They had to shoot in a way that maximized volume of fire since smoothbore muskets are inaccurate af and that’s the main weapon armies of the time had.
>skill issue
>needed help from the French to have a chance to win.
5:08 I remember as a kid being told stories of my great great great aunt who served as a ambulance driver for the Germans during the First World War. Apparently she wasn’t terribly keen on those British pilots because they kept strafing her ambulance and purportedly on one occasion got out to shake her fist as they flew away, shouting something to the effect of “Are you blind?! Can’t you see the big Red Cross painted on top, you idiots?!”
That’s very interesting!
wait...the germans?
The Geneva convention was made after WW1.she was fair game.
@@Jack-yo2bc M’yes. Believe it or not, not everyone from the English speaking world hated all Germans back then. Especially when those young American men encountered feisty German lasses, like with my great great great uncle and my great great great aunt
@@hfar_in_the_sky and did they continue 2 side with germany for round 2?
" In war, whichever side may call itself the victor, there are no winners, but all are losers."
While I was medic in Iraq and Afghanistan, we were frequently warned about bounties on medics, officers, and radiomen.
Former corpsman USN. They told us the same thing. Luckily we no longer wear any distinguishing patches only a few warfare devices and stuff
ditto
Why are you even saving murderer in the first place?
@@SonaNerikov2not murderers, innocent civilians
@@Charleville.musket
I'm pointing out American soldiers. All of them are murderer
A wise man once said
"Its not a warcrime if you win the war"
"It's not a war crime as long as you are a super power or win" it's more appropriate
Is that why the Biscarri massacre is well known?
Or the fact that the Soviets were awful, even more so than the Germans?
Please tell me again how "it's not a warcrime if you win the war".
@@RazorsharpLT it was a silly goofy edgy joke dont take what i said seriously
if you are from U.S.A :v
@@RazorsharpLT "Or the fact that the Soviets were awful, even more so than the Germans?" - How were the Soviets worse then the Germans? I'm not arguing, just curious why you think that.
Remember: It’s not a war crime if nobody acknowledges what you did
Like the whole Canadian Parliament, yes exactly 😂
The Geneva Suggestion 💀💀💀
Its not a war crime if you are the victor.
Israel and Palestine agrees
Leaving no witnesses I suppose is an option too
War crimes just make me think of 2 kids having a Pokémon battle with their Pokémon cards and one kid shouts before”No, don’t use your charizard he’s too op!”
I was shot at just as much as the infantry in Iraq and Afghanistan and that was a good thing! That means I did a superlative job hiding the fact that I was a medic.
I heard medics out there were targeted. Thanks for what you done though. How long were you in the Army for?
Because you were fighting against insurgents rather than a legitimate army, therefore they would not have to abide by the laws of the Geneva Convention.
Insurgents themselves don’t fall within Geneva convention anyway and we rarely expected to be taken alive anyway, plus they’d often use civilian population to hide
Rebels and insurgents have zero reason to honor conventions. Especially when fighting a superior force. Cold but true.
@@martymcfly8535 I definitely wasn’t expecting them to, otherwise I wouldn’t have been so assiduous in hiding my identity.
i like how this gets recommended a day after my socials keep barraging my feed with news about hospitals getting bombed
Israel be like: its not a warcrime if the USA is on your side
Look at the war crime where you not supposed to hide behind civilians and especially medics/hospitals.
@@aleksandrpaniutin4028 I thought Israel said that Hamas had tunnels?
The world knows who is the real monster, nothing can change that!
@@aleksandrpaniutin4028ok mr “terrorist check in calendar” 🙄🙄 where’s that al shifa complex chief??? you hear about israel’s “where’s daddy?” AI software? it TRACKS “HAMAS MILITANTS” (which are usually just military aged men israel wants to shoot at) AND FIRES FROM A DRONE AT THEIR HOMES ONLY WHEN THEY GET HOME TO THEIR FAMILIES. go read a fucking book 🙄🙄
@@aleksandrpaniutin4028Aren’t you tired spreading propaganda yet?
Another reason to follow this rule is because if any your guys get captured, the enemy's medic will be the one to take of them. Since the Japanese did not believe in surrendering, they had no problem killing American medics.
and there is the propaganda angle that which unforchanetlly for plenty of the japs the allies lived up to the propaganda. this is due to the japs fear or so and fought fenatically etc. and other reasons to as well.
And we all see how that ended in Hiroshima.
They didn’t want their cities bombed, not knowing by deliberately violating the treaties, they enraged America enough to bomb their cities. They made their own self fulfilling prophecy, good riddance to Imperial Japan.
Kaboom?
Yes Rico, Kaboom
Would imagine medics just walking in enemy territory and say "Just gonna take this dude, thanks"
My wife’s grandpa was a corpsman in WW2, since I married into the family, he was (for some reason) more comfortable telling me stories than his blood descendants. He was on Guadalcanal and carried a 1911 for the duration of his service. The things he witnessed and survived were horrifying.
the most unnecessary comment
@@cap10yapactually, that would be yours.
@@JustALittleGhostOfHallownest they probably read that reply somewhere and have been itching to use it themselves ever since
Liar
I think the reason why he was more comfortable with you is because if he messes up it won’t be permanent. There was a chance that she might divorce you or something along that line.
It's convenient to ban shooting officers while ordinary soldiers could die in waves. I'm glad, that this rule was changed, maybe this made them think more about throwing anyone for death
Now if they could hit the people who give the officers orders.
Artillery doesn't care anyway
America, eliminating the class system one baron at a time.😅😅
Part of the reason for that is that should the enemy make a conscious effort on killing officers whom were usually part of prominent families in the home country, it would also make peace talks more difficult because the people whose words actually carry weight would suddenly start taking the war personally and even if the King would like to sue for peace, it's a bit hard to do if everyone with wealth or some sort of title would be crying out for blood.
Knowing this is the same for enemy, it is better if you don't kill them and simply capture them, as a letter from an imprisoned son has a bit of an opposite reaction to the peace negotiations, seeing that many would want to ransom their child and end the war quickly without making the enemy desperate enough to start executing hostages.
You may think it's a bit silly or unfair, but it does often help de-escalate a conflict if you capture rather than kill the family of the movers and shakers. This is of course, more important when you fight a local war rather than your enemy crossing the sea to get to you.
It’s not about convenience.
The Japanese were among the first to actually target medics. In Vietnam, the concept of sparing medics went out the window. Removing the Red Cross doubled the life expectancy of the Medic. Removing the Medics bag and carrying his gear in combat pouches tripled the Medics life expectancy! This changed the character of the Medic. Pacifists have been known to volunteer to be combat Medics. They felt it was an opportunity to serve and still take the risks of those who actually fight. After Vietnam, a new breed of Medic / Corpsman rose up. Those who pride themselves on their ability to inflict wounds as well a bind wounds. This makes it dangerous for on to target a modern Medic for he will guard the life of his patient with his life weather the threat to the patient's life is a wound, infection, or enemy soldier
Yeah, I got caught up as a medical student in Chile during Pinochet stuff. I was the “medic” in a little village in the mountains for about six weeks. They treated me okay and I figured it was this Doctor Zhivago thing going on. I had only seen that movie a few years earlier and it was fresh on my mind. Always wondered if that was a real story..
Damn-
This predates the Japanese
2023:cameraman never dies
1947:medic never dies
Combat medicine in Vietnam is the ancestor of modern trauma medicine. In times past, very old or very young doctors were assigned to ERs and trauma was not considered a medical specialty. Ambulance crews (maybe) had first aid knowledge.
Germany: we shouldn't shoot medics.
japan: hold my sake
usa: taste my nukes
@@iamgaijin88japan: is that the sun?!
Krauts killed medics too
USA: Yes 😎🇺🇸
@@Muhammadwasapedolittle boy and fat man: here come the sun
"These are medics"
"Dear GOD"
*"You can't shoot them"*
*_"NO"_*
expiration date reference lol
@@ItsWorm0912 its obviously a reference to fortnite
“It contains the heinous warcrimes against medics the men here have commited”
"There's more"
@@dusancosic6432 no…
If games taught me anything,it is that i should always attack the support first so they stop healing the attackers and the tanks.
My Grandfather fought in Italy during WW2 and the Germans there shot at his ambulance in an attempt to steal his medical supplies. He put his driving skills to the test and out ran his pursuers.
wasn't italy on there side?
@@Jack-yo2bcthis was probably after the Allies occupied Italy but if it wasn’t I won’t be surprised
@@Jack-yo2bc Not until the Allies occupied it, no. Benito Mussolini was a part of the Axis as well until the people of Italy revolted (with our help) and executed him.
In the US armed forces, if you try and kill doc, expect the grunts to commit unimaginable acts
Also the officer will ignore what happens when they go default aggressive.
Double so of you hit the dog...
Don t hit the dog.
Facts.
A round landed somewhere close to Doc, it gets radioed back to arty, "You see that grid square?" "Yes sir." "I don't want to see it anymore." "Understood sir."
That's what they did anyway.
Don’t they do that already?
My Great Uncle was an Army medic in WWIl. He and a German medic worked together and treated wounded after a battle.
Medics are basically those who keep their decency for the longest time in war. Even if it’s hard. I tried to live up to that, that’s why i was a medic while in the military. I’m SO glad i didn’t had to show if i was good enough because there was no real war i had to serve in during service. I helped people, but i have so much respect for people who do this while something like WW2 is all around you…
It could be noted that Geneva convention apply even in case if other party is not a signatory of it. Moreover, USSR deliberately offered Germany to reciprocally apply this convention shortly after the war had started, but no answer was received.
Unfortunately in modern conflict, almost zero considerations are given for medics. I was a Hospital Corpsman with the US Navy. We technically always wear medical insignias because of our rate (job) but from the war on terror onward, terrorists don't play by the rules, so we have been armed and are expected to be a fighter first and a medic second.
and terrorists will weaponize the rules of war against you for propaganda wins.
Yea you rarely hear about medics in modern conflict as being protected I always thought that they removed it from the treaty but they didn’t it just people don’t care anymore
@@18Anakinit’s a very dumb thing to do, yeah spare their medics so they can potentially bring back more enemy combatants, I think not.
Most of the things on the Geneva Convention make no damn sense whatsoever.
Take no prisoners unless you plan on forcing information out of them.
Attack higher ranked units if you can find them, to help disrupt their chain of communication.
The people who can’t see these things are just dumb.
@@healer_btw5606 War is already brutal. The Geneva Conventions are about making it less brutal if possible, you idiot. The Western Front was less brutal BECAUSE both sides respected medics, and the Soviets actually requested that both sides followed the Hague Conventions. It was only AFTER inhuman barbarity of the kind you suggest that Soviet Soldiers committed such atrocities against German soldiers and later Axis civilians. Fine philosophy, dumbfuck, because that is the exact reason Germany and Japan lost the war. All of those things might gain you tactical advantages, but they will almost certainly cause strategic failures for your army, because not only will the enemy have no reason to treat you or your civilians fairly if you lose, they'll respond with just as much brutality. Look at what's happening in Israel and the Middle East after Gaza attacked civilians. Israel now has every reason to make it as brutal as possible for the civilians there.
War isn't a game, and short-term successes can often lead to a LOT of long-term failures.
For a terrorist point of view, why should they let medics live when they are aiding enemies that want to kill them?
“Friendly fire isn’t tolerated”
well with 1 excemption:
Ruski
Funny way to say "team kill"
what do you mean by friendly fire? those were enemies as well..
Great video man. Senior Chief Hospital Corpsman of 21 years and still going. I talk about this history with all my junior docs.
And yet in every game, you learn that you must always prioritize the healers.
That's why I always play as a medic in COD. People don't shoot you.
Umm you can't play as a medic in cod
@@becky2235shhh shh...thats what we call a joke
@@rustyrocket666 I'm glad someone got it. I felt really proud of myself for thinking it.
@@paulcowlishawbro I choked on my drink when I seen it 😂
@rustyrocket9117 haha. Sorry. Glad I made you laugh
It's crazy how men fought in the same war yet depending on which front they came from, they wouldn't relate to each other. It genuinely seems like two separate timelines to me.
This video was inspired by "The Medic Who fought a War without a Weapon", In that video he discusses about a medical soldier named Desmond Doss who was a soldier who doesn't bring a gun during the world war. From that video, the soldiers are aware that the medic soldiers were frankly targeted because of the medical insignia in their caps.
there were apparently a lot of rumours circulated by the Japanese army psy-ops officers about American and allied medics. Things like they will change your blood so you are no longer Japanese, they castrate captured Japanese men, they perform forced abortions on Japanese and islander civilians, they have biological weapons to spread disease and cowardice, etc. This was on top of all the other propaganda being disseminated through the ranks to keep the soldiers loyal and willing to fight.
Desmond doss 💯
Hacksaw ridge was pretty good
My dad was a unarmed combat medic in Sarajevo in 92-93 then an armed combat medic in Bosnia in late 98-99 for a peace keeping mission
0:12 me in company of heroes
I remember being intrigued with this topic when I learned Stardew Valley had to update their clinic signage from a red cross to a green cross because it went against something pertaining to this in the Geneva convention. Delving into it some more made me have more respect for medics in general and field medics specifically. Knowing you stick out like a sore thumb and relying on the enemy to uphold their side and not target you must be nerve wracking and require a great deal of bravery.
and also oblied to treat your enemies
Among us has the same thing
Not just games, any usage of the red cross except by non-combatant medic forces and the RED Cross organization itself. That is why most ambulances have the Star of Life on them instead. In Europe some ambulances are operated by the Red Cross and so they can use the emblem. Also the Red Cross allows under license some things like First Aid kits.
Technically if you are playing a war game that follows Geneva rules you could use the emblem. (like having a Hospital that you have to avoid targeting) What gets them upset is games where the rules of the game require shooting people with protective emblems.
I would never wear the arm band in theatre... I also would shoot back when shot at. Ohh BTW, I was a Grunt who transitioned to Medic and Radiographer with nearly 4x years in war zones.
@@BeardedChieftain Yes, you were likely a US medic who does not wear a protective emblem and is a combatant. The US would not use emblems even with an enemy that did respect Geneva - they like having one more combatant per squad.
If you were TOLD to wear an armband (and some countries do this - like the UK) then you shooting would be a war crime.
You still can defend yourself.
The reason why you don't shoot combat medics is because the whole squad knows that if they get hurt, Doc is their only hope of survival. An attack on Doc is an attack on the whole squad and they will take it personally.
As opposed to an attack on the whole squad?
yes, think about it, if you are attacking the whole squad, you are actively hurting them/killing a lot of them... but if you attack the doc and he die, the squad is STILL ALIVE AND NOW THEY KNOW THAT EVERYTHING GOES, so even if you surrender.. you WILL die.@@jeffreyblack666
@@jeffreyblack666yes, you shoot doc, they stop aiming at your group and start chasing you in particular down to tear you apart with their bare hands.
@@fantomphlame5565
That entirely misses the point and just further highlights how irrational it is.
You are saying they go insane and barbaric and brutal.
So much so that they entirely ignore who they should be focusing on and instead just focus on a single person.
So have a single person in a squad take out the medic, so the opposing squad targets them alone, while the rest of the squad then moves to a better position to take out that opposing squad entirely.
And what if my entire squad all target the medic. Then what does the other squad do? Target all of us? Like they were doing before?
I mean, that's the point.
Increase casualties and bait the enemy into irrational action. No medic means increasing the chance on wounded becoming casualties. It makes people either get mad or shut down making easy targets. It demoralizes the unit.
Why do you think children are used as combatants and prisoners used as meat shields?
The entire point is to "exploit" the humanity of your enemy. If an enemy has either enough people or political power, they know that those tactics can be done without personal consequence. It's war. It's only a crime if you "lose".
This ain't a video game. This ain't fair and honorable combat. It's total warfare. They kill a medic with bullets, how is that any worse than starving them via blockade, disease or any waste with chemical warfare, flamethrowers, false surrenders, ect?
I was deployed with the US Army (I specify because I am a dual citizen and not born in the US) as an infantryman. In my experience the combat medics and corpmen are badasses. I love those guys. They are always the nicest people ive ever met but when the chips are down they will do anything, up to and including give their own life, to save another person. In my mind there's literally no higher calling on earth.
Except for, you know, not joining the fucking US Army
TF2 Sniper (dominating the Medic): Sorry there, nurse! I mistook you for the actual threat!
Healer's down! Need a rez! Out of mana!
Everyone: screaming
*Head Cha La plays*
Real world: don't shoot medics
TF2: med dropped!
The Revolutionary War and the Kentucky Long Rifle is THE undeniable proof our Founding Fathers intended us civilians to have weapons equal or superior to the military.
As your video points out, the accuracy and range of these rifles (which were used for hunting and owned by civilians) was a critical part of American victory.
The founding fathers realized a time might come where civilians would need to "out gun" the military, which is why they chose the unambiguous language of "shall not be infringed".
Any historian that has legitimate degrees and formal education, agrees that the 2nd amendment was explicitly written as the "right to rebellion".
Anybody who thinks civillians shouldnt own guns, is a bootlicker.
2:01 I never knew that you even did a face reveal
Japan: *ignores GC pact*
Oppenheimer: I’m gonna give them something they can’t ignore
"we may be enemies but i am a medic first"- unknown german medic
What?
9:13- I never knew that the M1 Garand was secretly a bolt-action rifle
Well actually when the marines arrived to the Pacific they only had the 1903 Springfield
@@Switchblade_420 but I’m the clip, it shows m1 garands being used
An animation hiccup.
Always has been
meanwhile today you can get away with calling them terrorist or terrorist sympathizers, even if they're international charity workers
There’s an error in this video at 9:20;
Desmond Doss did receive The Medal Of Honor however he received the Army version of the medal, That’s the Navy version
I watched a video from a US veteran where he said that there is no faster way to get in the forever box than shooting at a medic and that what the grunts are about to do to you will be brought up the next time Geneva has a convention.
Related to this, the RAF shot down unarmed and clearly marked air sea rescue planes during the Battle of Britain. How this affected the attitude of German soldiers in other theatres is up for debate.
they did that? let alone there was air sea rescue planes used?
@@TheManofthecross Sadly, not one of the RAF’s proudest moments. In response, Goering ordered retaliatory attacks, but the front line Luftwaffe pilots refused. At any rate, here’s some interesting reading: aviationtrivia.blogspot.com/2012/06/luftwaffe-seenotdienst-first-air-rescue.html
Not like the nazis were known for not committing war crimes in the first place
yeah they did, probably because Britain didn't really use their own air sea rescue planes and it was a war of attrition at that point so they didn't want to allow German pilots to gain experience
The Nazis were bombing civilian targets during the battle of Britain. Bear in mind they were also planning on gassing people I doubt the RAF shooting down air sea planes would have been a motivator to treat allied soldiers any worse. F the Nazis. They were not all literal Nazis. They were a legitimate enemy.
Medics in real life: I have immunity based on morality
Medics in videogames: I am a very real threat to you and your odds of seeing your virtual family in this game
My dad was a medic on Omaha bwach and he said that by the second day he removed the cross from his helmet ecause he saw many with bullet holes in the middle of the crosse. I have read that in some armies the piper is also not a legit target.
Pipers are always legit targets, even in peacetime😂
During the Gulf War we adopted a protocol. Any Iraqi unit seen violating the Geneva Convention, we’d go to “Thermals” (thermal optics) as it was “impossible” to identify if they were surrendering. Meaning we never engaged troops that had surrendered.
Whilst this may seem harsh it was in response to their disregard of the GC (like shooting at pilots bailing out). It was amazing how quickly they reinstated the GC.
"your honor, i was not violating the GC... i was using thermals!"
judge:fair point.
This very succinctly illustrates how setting arbitrary boundaries can help limit escalation, even if to some small degree.
“OMG, those savages are committing war crimes” (every invader committing multiple war crimes himself)
It's always 'we don't care about GC', until it affects them. Sadly,that's the only way to enforce it, when one side, or both, don't care
*Imperial Japanese army sniper shot a USMC corpsman*
*⚠️ You have alerted the horde ⚠️*
Then after a couple minutes of fire you hear the Collective PING of like 200 M1 Garands.
@@jaywerner8415PING PING MUTHAFUCKERS
Ahh left 4 dead.
Rules during war has got to be the biggest oxymoron I've ever heard
even the purge has rules bra
Heavy - “what happens now?”
Medic - “now….*menacing chuckle* let’s go practice medicine”
Fun fact: Timothy Murphy is often credited as the world's first military sniper, and was only 15.
That depends on what you count as a sniper.
@@pipebombpete.6861 I mean... yeah.
9:10 I know that I should not be a jerk but it's still weird to see an M1 Garand treated as an bolt action rifle
I have to agree.
Realy wierd
Was gonna say that the Marines took a while before they standardized M1 Garands in WW2, but looking at the weapon shape yeah it's close to that of an M1 Garand that it's odd they gave it a bolt action animation.
That's an m1c ?idk really
Your first mistake is thinking war has rules
That's not rules, that's basic morality. Wounded soldiers are no use in the war, therefore medics are no use as well. People's goal is to win the war, not to shoot civilians (and medics) for fun.
@@aeolianthecomposer meanwhile isn'treal: Hahahaha Shooting People..
@@aeolianthecomposerbro forgot the part that tells us that rules come from morality. There is nothing good in wars, that's why it makes no sense that there are rules on it, and worse, thinking that people would follow them
@@mobiousgazer192 Noone is denying that wars are terrible. The point is, if there are wars, it's better to reduce the amount of unnecessary suffering as much as possible
@aeolianthecomposer No, if you are engaged in war, and you want to win, it is in your best interest to win as soon as possible regardless of how much suffering you cause. By sparing your enemy's most valuable personell, you are making your own victory so much harder and prolonging the war. Your soldiers experience more battle, the enemy soldiers are capable of battling more, and more bloodshed is caused. It makes no sense to follow these rules because it would only aid your loss while the enemy does whatever it takes to win. Unless you were confident you would easily win the war, there's no reason to go easy on the enemy.
"Don't shoot medics"
people who have played any FPS game ever:
I dont shoot medics till i get shot first, i respect anyon3 taking the medic role
L@@cringelord2875
@@cringelord2875 I don't because I mostly play medic.
@@cringelord2875 depends a lot on the game. For some it may be fine, but try that in TF2 or Planetside 2... in those, you dont kill the medic, you lose.
6:35 That animation and level of detail was so good. Love the effort!
Japan soldiers: im gonna pretend i didn't see that
Based
Imperial Japanese and Soviet soldiers:It's free real estate
@@Goc4everYou forgot any country that ends in "an", North Korea, the Mexican, Columbian cartels(let's face it, they're a full on militarily organized force with numbers rivaling citizens in other countries), any military on the African continent, North Vietnam, China, The Wagner Group and a lot of their county of origin, (not anymore though 😂), Hamas, Al Quida, Syria...I can go on for DAYS, and WE are expected to play by the "rules"🤨. It's probably a good thing we sometimes DON'T💯
I wanted to be more precise with the time period
@@AlreadyDeadInside83079doesn’t “American” end in “an”?
Shhhh… 🤫
4:40 pretending to surrender only to kill your captor is also a war crime.
A very good friend of mine was a medic on Normandy. First wave,he also didn't want to carry a weapon. He said the Germans were shooting at them
. He said he was the only man who lived through the day,from his boat. He also said he had a gun very shortly after they hit the beach. He also was in the Hurgon Forrest. Said war was sad State of humanity.
WW2 medics were taken as POW’s. I know because my moms now ex husband of 20 years had a dad who was a medic in world war 2. I guess he rarely spoke of it but we always heard one story about how his dad would wake up in the night from nightmares saying he dreamt he was back in that prison cell and heard the nazi’s outside speaking in German.
He eventually got out and made a small chain of pharmacy’s in Wisconsin called Bentley’s.
My grandfather was also a WW2 medic in the British army medical corps. He was taken as a POW at Dunkirk because he stayed behind to look after the wounded who couldn't make it to the boats. He spent the next few years in the POW camp in Thorn castle in Poland.
my husband told me during his time in Central Africa they were purposely aiming at the medics
7:20, I think I get what you’re going for with this line, but I don’t think the mass murder the Nazis did in the East flew in the face of their ideals for living room, it was what was required for them to pursue that plan. They wanted to expand the living space for ethnic Germans, but there were already people (Poles, Slavs, Jews, Romani, etc.) living there, so the Nazis saw too it that the space was ‘cleansed’ in order to be taken and used for the Aryan people.
Are you trying to justify them right now?
Bruh
This is a justification to you?? My complaint is I feel like the original video is taking unnecessarily neutral language when it should be more strongly denouncing the Nazis not just as hypocrites but evil!
Edit: @twinzzlers @narzist
@@novataco5412 I don't feel you made that clear enough
The only two games that I’ve played as a combat medic is battlefield 1 and 5. Though to be fair the medic has the best assault weapon in battlefield 1. I think it’d be a fun achievement in any game during those times if you got an achievement for killing a medic called war criminal or something like that.
I love playing as a medic in BF1. It's so fun watching the other medics whose lives you just saved running past you when you're dying.
which gun is it?
Federov Avtomat
My favorite medic is in squad. The distance between points and longer respawn times make medic super important for reviving teammates. Also smoke grenades are actually really important.
@@msutter117the selbstadler is the best gun in the game
I think the true reason medics aren't carrying rifles is that rifles are cumbersome if you are treating a wounded. I carried a pistol during military service in Germany. The French medics however were armed with FAMAS assault rifles. I guess they had made some experiences during colonial wars.
they were carrying rifles probably because any potential combat they'd see would be against actors who wouldn't respect the rules, anyway.
TF2 Players: I miss the part where that's my problem.
Copied comment.
If one side doesn't play by the rules, neither side is bound by them.
Tell that to EU and US who are holding back Ukraine and force them to follow Geneva convention even tho russians don't do that. It's like a teacher punishing someone who was bullied instead of a bully. Makes not fucking sense
The Geneva Convention sounds like an attempt to go back to the old ways of military honor.
It’s a way to dampen the horrors of war.
in way. more importantly: dampen the horrors of war, thus reducing mutual harm and protecting innocents. If war is fight according to the conventions, it also lessens mutual hate between combatants, thus hopefully making peace negotiations easier and new peace more long-lasting.
a good thing to note as well is that lot's of the rules are based on self-interest, and that what made countries sign these treaties. No country has signed a treaty that promised to not use strategic nuclear weapons if they other side has already completely wiped their country of the map, even though if you're already dead just killing the enemy's civilians would be hurting innocents without military gain. But, it is in no one's interest to promise this, so there is no international treaty enforcing this. Protecting POW"s, however, very much is.
Yo don't mistreat or murder POW"s. Not just because it's a warcrime. Not just because both you and your fellows have an interested in POW"s being protected in case you become POW's yourself. But also because the enemy knowing that 'surrender is safe' means they will actually surrender rather then fight to the death, which would increasing harm to your side otherwise.
For 1 example: Eastern front in WW2: the German armed forces for the most part knew that the war was lost and the western allies would treat them fairly. So, they often surrendered instead of fight. They also knew the Soviets would mistreat them and any civilian population they captured, so they dug in and fought much harder, even when they already knew the war was lost, hoping that they could inflict as much harm on the Soviets as possible and that a relatively larger part of Germany would be captured by the western allies instead of Soviets.
For another example: the recent Siege of Mariupol, where the soldiers of the Azov group believed that the Russians wanted to torture or execute them all anyway, so instead of surrendering like some other units did, they fought on for another month. That's not the only reason of course, but it certainly did harm to the Russians that Azov believed their rights as POW's would not be respected by the Russians.
@@JABN97yeah, I think not having to promise not to retaliate in case of a nuclear attack is deliberate, so as to discourage the use of nuclear weapons in the first place. MAD (mutually assured destruction) is one of the biggest reasons why nuclear arms aren't used in current day wars.
@@JABN97as what german bois in 1940s ever said : "better die than gulag".
Imperial Japanese soldier im WW2 when they see an American medic:
*_"COWABUNGA IT IS"_*
I remember a story about a medic who was treating people and his place was captured. The man he was treating was shot and the guy went apeshit. Literally killed a ton of people then was killed. Dude was awesome.
Benjamin Salomon??
In the Finnish defence forces medics are taught the laws, then told to ignore them as the enemy will do that too. The medics are all armed and trained for combat. The important thing is to let the enemy fire the first bullet, then you're free to engage. Same with landmines; We train to use anti-personnel mines by training placing AT mines/whatever random crap the same way an anti-personnel mine would be used. Then when the war breaks out we are ready to withdraw from the anti-landmine treaty since the adversary has been proven to not care about it or any other treaties in Ukraine.
remember, only the losing side has to answer for what it did
My oldest was a combat medic in Afghanistan. Oh he carried a rifle on patrols and shot back when needed.
Facts.
So what are his thoughts after leaving Afghanistan?
@@Labyrinth6000 same as everyone else that left there is was a shithole and we did what we had to... Your welcome
wounded soldiers are more problematic for the enemy, that the dead ones.
When you think about it, it’s actually advantageous to leave the medic alone. It's taking up the logistics ( and possible 2 other soldiers on the battlefield, as stretchers), and later economy of the enemy country after war ( as they have to tend and support wounded, and disabled veterans ).
True. However, wounded soldiers also carry the risk of returning to the battlefield or continuing to fight while wounded.
@@_skudWhich is nearly completely irrelevant on an Operational and Strategic Level. At least in conventional warfare.
Looks like it doesn't matter today huh
Simple History can you do a video on the downsides and consequences of Revolution, Military Coups and Coup D'etats.
Imperial Japanese: I'll fucking do it again.
It is common wisdom in massively multiplayer games that when in a player-vs-player battle that the healers are priority targets.
There's also an interesting history of computer games using a red cross in gameplay (usually either on simulated medics or in healing kits) and being contacted to remove such representations because the red cross is reserved for ACTUAL medical personnel and equipment, not simulated ones.
and i still think that's a ridiculous thing to ask video games to do. like, how am I suppose to recognise the red cross symbol if no one is allowed to represent it? I recognise it because of video games.
@@LeoBladinithen again, who actually plays medics in fps games like in real life lol.
@@z1u512 i'm talking about First Aids kits that were forbidden to have the Red cross symbol
@@LeoBladiniits a little more xomplicated
1. res cross organisation just politely asks about it
2. its not exactly meant to be in a battle area. Red cross is also meant to symbolise safe spaces
but in games they could be seen in med pacs on the battle field
afaik its ok for characters
@@LeoBladini Don't worry, the military doesn't just give out weapons to random people and tell them: "You're a soldier now, good luck."
There is actual training involved, training which amongst other things involves learning about the rules of war and how to distinguish legal targets from illegal ones.