Raising Monarchs - Outdoor Rearing (Help The Monarch Butterfly)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2019
- North American Monarchs (be they east or west of the Rocky Mountains) require cues from the environment starting in mid-summer in order to develop into migratory Monarchs. A study published out of the University of Chicago in June of 2019 showed how fragile this necessity for migration is. This episode goes through the details of one option for outdoor rearing which mimics the set up that produced successful migratory results in the study.
If you wish to attain a copy of the study, "Contemporary Loss Of Migration In Monarch Butterflies", you have a couple of options. It can be accessed through the PNAS website, either through a paid subscription, or for the one time cost of $10 here: www.pnas.org/content/116/29/1...
However, Dr. Marcus Kronforst, with permission, has allowed me to place his email address here, and is very willing to email you a copy upon request.
Dr. Marcus Kronforst email: mkronforst@uchicago.edu
If you are new to this series, I highly recommend checking out the "core" of Raising Monarchs, Parts 1 - 5, which shows in detail, how I raise Monarchs from egg to adult, and how you can too with essentially zero cost using household items.
Start here!
Raising Monarchs Instructional Video Series Parts 1 - 5:
• Raising Monarchs Part ...
Discussion of the University of Chicago study:
"Captive Rearing And Migration" - • Raising Monarchs - Cap...
Issues that can occur with the chrysalis:
"Chrysalis Issues" - • Raising Monarchs - Chr...
How to bleach treat eggs:
"OE Parasite Prevention" - • Raising Monarchs - OE ...
How to bleach treat leaves:
"Preventing NPV and Other Infections" - • Raising Monarchs - Pre...
How to make a proper honey/water solution and feed adult Monarchs (or any butterfly):
"How To Feed Adults" - • Raising Monarchs - How...
Options for when an adult can not successfully fly:
"When Adults Can't Fly" - • Raising Monarchs - Whe...
What the experts have to say about OE Parasites and when to euthanize:
"Should We Euthanize?" - • Raising Monarchs - Sho...
Discussion on the life cycle of OE Parasites and how they affect the Monarch Butterflies:
"What Are OE Parasites?" - • Raising Monarchs - Wha...
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I have just been growing my MW in pots and placing the whole pot in that same enclosure you have. Once they eat down that plant, I either replace it with a new one and transfer cats or I cut stalks, place them in flower tubes and stick in the soil as if it were growing. Also, excellent tip for newbies.... save your cut & eaten Milkweed stalks and place in a small vase with water. They will root and keep growing!
Great option! As long as the leaves are fresh, cut leaves can work, as in what I show, or potted plants are awesome to use as well. I'm guessing this might be a locality kind of thing, too. Common Milkweed, like what I use, once mature are way too large for these tents. And if one has Common Milkweed plants already in their yard, it might seem illogical to purchase potted plants small enough, or to even just try to uproot one of their smaller plants and use them this way. For those who deal with smaller species of milkweed in their localities, though, using potted plants might make more sense. Thanks for sharing your ideas!
You’ve really had them root from a cut stalk? I cut small plants from the ground, below the bottom leaves, and stick them in a vase of water for my cats. But you’re saying, if I leave that in water, after the leaves are eaten or dried up, that it will root? How long does it take?
This is what I do also. I use swamp milkweed. I can fit three 6 inch pots in one large pop-up. i put the lid of a large pizza box under them. Fits perfectly. And, as you say I also supplement with stalks in florist tubes stuck in the soil. I don't raise many cats, so I usually just have two or three cats in one large tent. It's amazing we both came up with the same scenario. I have photos I could post. And, like you, I have also grown swamp milkweed from cuttings with no problem. I have about a half dozen plants that I have started this way. Swamp milkweed loves water and is happy to root in it! The best part of this method is that I can give away these pots of milkweed at the end of the season, creating more monarch habitat!
Wow! I didn’t know that! Thanks
I place the plant inside also. My first run was 32 no deaths. After that I had around 80 and it seems I got the NPV VIRUS AND I don’t know how many will make it. I did see some green slime on the sides.
Great video. This is my 2nd season rearing Monarchs. I saved lots of milkweed seeds from last year’s plants and planted them in Nov outside and they came up and I found young cats on them😊. I used the mesh cages and placed the cats inside the tents, but I also kept the cage in the area where I found the cats. I had 11 cats and all made it to butterfly stage and released fine. The last four formed chrysalides fine, but our WV weather temp dropped into low 50s and I had to bring them into porch. Don’t know if that will have an influence. Also, I found two crysalides that formed out in nature and did not make it. One became horribly brown and the other was eaten. In our area(Wheeling), monarch’s lay in late Sept and we see funny ranges in temps. I was very happy with the outcome with raising them outside. Thanks for your helpful info, Rich. 🦋
Thank you for your advices , for the last 3 years I have raised more than 200 healthy butterflies and release them. It is amazing
Reyna hi I’m Kristen. I wonder if u may be able to help. Recently had to put 30 cats in the freezer. They all had the virus causing them to turn blk. I cannot figure out how or why.
I’ve been raising them over 3yrs now no problem.
We did recently have new neighbors move in behind us.
She is a smoker and sits out back. I can smell the smoke.
I wonder if smoke harms a new cat? I’m pretty sure the answer would be yes. Wanted to ask someone as well. Thanks
When we were kids we would use sticks in our enclosure for them to hang on. Thanks for the knowledge. 👍🏼
I have been coming back to your videos again and again over the years. Thank you for sharing all of your content and processes for rearing your monarchs. I very much appreciate you!
me too
Rearing them outdoors sure raises the anxiety levels..
Whenever we are out of our comfort zone, that's likely to happen. But trust that as you go, you'll learn, and that will help.
No kidding! I’m afraid to stop watching them!!
@@lisamiddough same here. I am obsessed with watching what is happening and afraid I did the wrong thing. So glad I found this channel.
I've been using those mesh cages for two years now,and I really like them.I keep mine on the deck.But I keep the eggs and little ones indoors,thank transfer out doors.
Thanks for the videos! I have moved my nursery outside for this last generation. This is my 3rd year raising monarchs. My first year I raised 8. Last year I raised 35. I decided to let the rest of the caterpillars in my milkweed to go it on there own. In one day my milkweed went from loaded with cats to nonexistent. I made it my goal to raise 100 this year. I invested in pop up tents. I released 105 3rd generation butterflies. I lost 6. Not a bad percentage. After your last video I have moved my nursery outside. Hopefully the outside raising will be a success. It is a bit more challenging. I have only collected hatched caterpillars, but next year I may try collecting eggs. I keep expanding my milkweed garden.
Rearing them outdoors is certainly more effort. Not tremendously more, I'm finding, but more nonetheless. And as we all have variable amounts of time, I can understand if someone was already taxed out with the amount of time/effort, and decides, "I'm just going to raise them in the earlier part of the season to avoid the migratory outdoor ins and outs." Some have already told me I'm crazy (in a nice way) to be doing the less involved indoor rearing over the past years. We all have to find what we're comfortable with. The tough part - it's so addicting. Your brain just thinks of more and more ways you could make it happen. Gotta watch that and not get in over our heads. Myself included!
Thanks for the work you do. You inspired my mom and I this year during our rearing. You also explained a lot of questions we had. Thank you for the monarch and those of us that love them.
You're absolutely welcome. More importantly, though, thank YOU for putting the information to use. These videos are nothing without those such as yourself, willing to put in the time and effort.
I moved my mesh enclosures into a camping screen tent in the yard.
awesome idea
I’m so glad I watched this video before I brought my chrysalides into my house.
I had another outdoors idea- I will try hanging my chrysalides on the dowels of a clothes drying rack and set that out in a squirrel pre- release enclosure along with my mesh cage for the caterpillars also in the enclosure.
I have always put a plant inside the net pop up, however I only brought in adult Cats, my thinking was if they made it that far, I would protect them from being a great meal for birds/or others, and give them peace for their Chrysalis'...I have released 42 total in a year, but they ate me out of house and home, I decided to build a Hügelkultur with the idea of native garden with lots of Milkweed...two years later (with a second rehab on the hill garden), I got a boom of milkweed this year. (2023). The plan was at that time, was to let nature take care of them. I also have only seen three Monarch butterflies so far this year, who I assume laid eggs, (didn't see any) till now I only have seen three Cats and they were big enough to make a Chrysalis...I don't know what to make of it...the first year in 2021, my girls came back and laid eggs where they were born, and I was overwhelmed with Cats in 2022, but this year, only maybe two laid eggs, which I never saw...I have two kinds of Milkweed, one is over 5' tall (had to stake it as it was falling over!) and the others are huge bushes...Seeds are all over the place and I'm having a hard time collecting them, as I have to get into the "bushes" and am getting bit all over!! I did notice one of the new plants (they are spreading :)) is filled now with Aphids! what can I do with that issue? Thanks for the news about migration, indoor or outdoor rearing, I also put the pop up out side during the Chrysalis periods, for a few hours a day to acclimated them before they came out to be released...interesting research, I'm thinking again! Love all your information over these years, so glad your back.🙃 P.S. I'm in Southern California, Riverside Co.
What lucky cats they are to have such a wonderful papa! 🐛 I love how you pinned the ribbon to the top of their mesh cage to help them have a better option to j-hang! That was a genius idea... I never would’ve thought of that! These cats sure are getting the royal treatment! Fresh milkweed served on a silver platter almost lol. Thank you so much for putting the time and energy to not only raise monarchs, but to make these monarch videos! I normally raise woolly bears/other things that turn into moths... but this summer I decided to take in and raise monarchs for the first time. Watching your videos taught me so much about what to expect and how to deal when issues come up. Living in WI, and there are so many tachinid flies in this area... I have had some casualties but so far, I have raised and released 60 butterflies with another 30+ on the way! The butterflies and caterpillars and I thank YOU so much.
Great job! Yeah, based upon what people say, I'm fortunate to have never had a tachinid fly experience. Keeping them in a controlled environments that tachinid flies can't access is definitely part of that. Still, I hear they are sneaky...
Just wanted to let you know that we are having GREAT success raising Monarchs this year here is Madison Wisconsin. Reminder that we lost ALL our cats just before or during J hang about 5 years ago and again the following year, we think because the city had been spraying for gypsy moths.
Anyway, we have collected about 16 eggs and/or cats and so far this week have released the first 6 adults. We have a separate screened "condo" for each cat that's big enough to not be able to escape through the screening.
Once the cat goes into chrysalis, we let it harden for a day or two before transferring it to a string suspended inside a mesh "tent" which is suspended from.a hook over our open front porch. The cat condos are on the front porch as well. We're HOPING this is enough outdoors exposure for them to join the migration.
Thanks so very much for the work you do, and the support you gave me when we were having so much trouble a few years back.
Very awesome! May the success continue!
Aah! I saw this video too late! It's my first time trying to save the monarchs, and I have a lot to learn! I instinctively put the terrarium in front of my kitchen window and I leave the window open. I hung the chrysalides in the same window. I really hope I'm not the cause of any misfortune for these beautiful animals. I felt compelled to bring them inside when I kept finding wasps destroying them in my garden.
That’s exactly how I started wild-rearing MB, by rescuing half dozen cats stranded during a N.C. Hurricane a few years ago, where no decent milkweed was left for them. I have followed him and his updates, like you!, ever since. We continue to learn, and improve, so keep up the good work! Best regards
Even though you said that you’re not an expert. But you are, your videos are so helpful and informative! Thank you!
Hi Rich,
I wish I could include a picture of the 3 butterfly enclosures we built around the milkweed growing in our yard, but I don't know if that's possible. The largest is 12ft long by 3 1/2 ft wide by 4 1/2ft tall made of 3/4in pvc pipe and garden insect mesh. They worked well to keep them safe from tachinid flies but lost a few to a stink bug.😣 Released 25 monarchs so far and cut the weed back for new growth so I can put my migratory cats out there. Which leads me to my question. I live in central Minnesota. When does the migratory generation start? Last year I had 10 emerge in mid October after the nighttime temps dropped below freezing. I kept them alive until MEA Weekend then drove them to Arkansas. Yep, I did that and am still hearing how rediculous I am. Dedication to the cause. That's all I can say in defense of my actions. 😊 Thank you, Dawn Walkley
Yea!!!! Been waiting for this video, lets see if my outdoor habitat is sufficient!
And I appreciate the patience. Hope it helps!
We also put the whole milkweed plant in the cage also, then replace with new plant with lots of leaves
I have been using a pop up tent for the chrysalis. Sometime I don’t get the silk with the chrysalis so I hung a tight string in the pop up tent from one side to the other side and carefully hot glue them to the strings. It was my first year doing this and so far I have had 100% success.
Cool for them to have a dedicated care taker.
Also, if a chrysalis has correctly formed, but lost the silk to hang from, keep in mind, a chrysalis does not need to hang for the adult to develop. Their development is not gravity dependent, in other words. Also, as long as you give them a way to climb up and dry their wings afterwards, a Monarch can come out of the chrysalis on its side without issue.
Here's a video showing such: th-cam.com/video/kxCzr89Ck3E/w-d-xo.html
Very helpful. Thank you! I have 8 right now and fingers crossed-hope they will do well. we are getting late in the season.
You are one awesome dude. Thanks for helping the Monarchs.
SOOO glad I found this video, your setup is definitely better then how I had my mesh pop ups done this summer - will be implementing your style from now on!
Just to add to my last comment, raising them in these outdoor enclosures way decreased anxiety because I wasn't constantly hunting weed and cleaning cages. Not many Monarchs around my parts this year 🥺 I also am raising them indoors now, too, waiting for the regrowth.
I'm aware of that study. I believe what the article was saying was that butterflies that had been raised indoors for multiple generations lost the instinct to migrate. These were commercial bred Monarchs used for weddings and such. I can see that being true. That's like if you raise generations of lions in a secured habitat and then release them out in the wild. They're not going to know what to do and how to survive. The same goes for commercially bred Monarchs that have been raised for generations in a secured environment.
There's a facebook page I follow called The Beautiful Monarch where people have reported the butterflies they raised indoors in the north and released in the fall had made their way down to Mexico (places raised in the north like Maryland, etc.)
Also, I do have a huge question on this article that was reported. Unless all of the butterflies have tracking devices on them and are being monitored, scientists can't track where the butterflies are coming from. I highly doubt there are scientists in every town during the fall when the Monarchs start their migrating process just waiting to see if any stray Monarchs stick around when it starts to get really cold and all the vegetation is going away for the year and decide not to migrate.
With the numbers that have increased this year (and hopefully they increase next year even further), I would think the increased numbers were attributed to people raising Monarchs indoors and also in secured habitats outside.
Of course I'm in north Texas and still raising Monarchs (currently raising the 4th generation I believe and have been raising since early April). Any butterflies that decide to start their migrating around here might not be until mid to late October. It's still in the low to mid 70's in mid to late October. **Also of note, my last Monarch butterfly I released was the day after Thanksgiving of 2018, and we had sunny skies and high temps around 70 and lows around the upper 40s to low 50s for a good four or five days. I'm assuming those overnight lows triggered the butterfly to make it's way down south unless it got eaten by something along the way.
Just my two cents.
Ryan Yarbrough See his last video. You’re not responding to the journal article he’s discussing.
Having spoken with Dr. Chip Taylor, along with one of the authors of the study, they seem in agreement that the media made a mess of this. I'm not sure which article you read, but multiple articles are out there, ranging from mostly accurate and fair, to inaccurate, misleading, or downright making things up. There was one article that spoke of the Monarchs not showing migratory behavior when they "were released". The Monarchs were not released, but frozen after the experiment, in order to analyze their genetics. Articles sometimes didn't make any effort to differentiate between wild sourced stock that were reared, verses bred stock that were reared. Many mistakes, depending upon which article one looks at. So, yes, you're correct that the experiment compared bred stock Monarchs to wild sourced Monarchs, both being reared outdoors. However, another part of the study compared all wild sourced Monarchs, but reared a group indoors, and reared a group outdoors.
In the study itself, the claim was never made that if reared indoors, it's impossible for Monarchs to migrate. Those are claims that articles, mishandling the information made.
To clear up what the study did and didn't say, that's why I made the previous video that goes through the data, what experimental groups were involved, and what implications the results can have.
Here is said video: th-cam.com/video/XcH7I9CtZRQ/w-d-xo.html
If you haven't watched that video, it makes this current one more understandable.
You missed it but be sure to watch his last video, just prior to this one, as it makes the results he specifically refers to here obviously very clear.
Lovin' it! I'm super shy, but I might have to take you up on your video challenge, Monarchs are awesome!!!
And if you wish, certainly the video could be silent, and just show what you describe in the comment.
This is a must watch. Very good, thank you!
Much appreciated!
I’m lettin’ them do their thing. I ordered (50) tags this morning. I have a small net mom got from Marshall’s for me $3.95. I caught them last year w/ my hands. In nature they don’t have netted enclosures, etc. This all plays into their “signal” communication. The Monarchs are flying thru the deck while I longer this year. I saw (2) procreating this morning! Lucky them:-). I also saw a beautiful Yellow Swallowtail this morning. My house is Grand Central for the Monarchs. I have Swamp Milkweed plants ALL around our house!
I wish I ordered tags...I hadn't planned on raising them this year but couldn't help myself when I found them out in my garden...oh well, next year I'll just order them and give them away if I don't use them. :-(
I'm so glad a listened to this video. I have raised several Plain Tigers and I will never do so inside again (All ours migrate to Africa to overwinter) I have a screened butterfly case in an open garage outside which should be "outdoors enough". Thank you so much for all your videos Rich! You are making a huge difference all over the world 🦋
Finally got my outdoor environment set up on the uncovered deck outside my kitchen. (I want to be near my charges and going into the yard all the time is a hike!) I purchased 4 under-shelf hanging shelves, turned them upside down and tied them together. Then I tied them to the railings on my deck.They have slits so that water can go through. I placed my pop-up butterfly container on top and cut the carry-strap on it so that I could tie the container to the railing posts too. (Having the tent raised a foot or so up from the deck floor means I can sit on a stool when attending the monarchs.) Got the same containers at the dollar store that Mr. Lund showed in his video and placed them on bricks inside the tent. I wrapped the bricks in plastic wrap so they wouldn't abrade the mesh floor of the tent. For the tiny cats, I placed one small pop-up, zip-close cylinder in each of the 2 containers. I cut the carry straps on those small containers and threaded them through the slits in the larger basket type containers so that the small containers wouldn't blow. I used a cat-poop shovel with its handle cut off and lined with a paper towel to keep one group of baby cats in one small container. I used a small child's sand sifting toy lined with a paper towel for the other container and group of babies. Both the poop shovel and the sifter have holes or slits to let water drain. I put heavy rocks in the larger containers also. My pop-up container has one green side panel, which I made sure faced away from the sun. Since the plastic top of the pop-up container is not good for jay-hangers and chrysalides, I covered a large portion of it with non-stick mesh shelf liner, pinning it to the sides. (The material is similar to the material that keeps rugs from slipping.) Mr. Lund, do you think that material will work ok for the jay-hangers? Lastly, it's often windy on my deck and worrying about milkweed leaves drying out too quickly and about gusty wind swept rain, I placed a large shrub in a pot on a roller contraption to act as wind and rain protection (an old skate board might do also). The mesh zipper door is on the windy side so I can easily roll the plant out of the way when I want to tend the critters. Haven't moved any big guys into the pop-up container yet because I started raising them before Mr. Lund put out his video on setting up an outside home. But I am going to move chrysalides to a string I strung across the container and hope that if they are 4th generation, perhaps spending their time in the chrysalis outside will give them the migration instinct. Sorry to be so long winded, but I hope some of you may get some ideas and find my description useful!
Definitely a useful description. Thank you for going into the detail you did for others to see.
For the cabinet lining mesh, I'd say the quick test could be, are the caterpillars able to crawl around on it no problem? If their foot pads can adhere, my guess would be they'd find it to be splendid. With the clear plastic, they can get around on that too, and I've seen them do it and form chrysalides on there. But some don't seem that into it. However, once a few have gone up there (be it to molt or form a chrysalis) they are placing silk up there along the way. This gives more of a surface that future ones can cling onto as well. But, in starting out, a material such as what you describe is helpful.
If cut leaves are blowing around, I know that some use small test tube like leaf holders (the things you might see at the bottom of a rose that is being sold to keep it hydrated), and that may weigh the leaves down enough to have wind be less of a problem. Possibility, though I don't have experience with it.
@@MrLundScience Thanks for your helpful response! I do have leaf holders and find them really useful after I bleach a bunch of leaves in keeping the leaves fresh.
I Live in SW Michigan and just discovered you and you have motivated me. I have milkweed in my yard and it’s spreading. I’ve raised eggs, I have several instars right now and about 20 chrysalis. Even got out the microscope and checked my deformed butterfly for OE. I’ve gone off the hook. I’m blowing up my FB page with my pics. Thank you!
Wait, I'm confused. Another comment you left said you're hooked. Now this one says you've gone off the hook. ;-)
Glad to have you aboard!
MrLundScience I’m still hooked. I have 2 cats yet that have yet to go into chrysalis. I also have about 12 that have to emerge yet. Much of my milkweed is looking really sad and has a black film on the leaves. Am I killing it by constantly taking off leaves and cutting out the eggs?
@@jc2385 Depends upon what you mean by "killing" it. Are you harming the health of that stalk? Yes. But, that's to be expected if a caterpillar or two were munching on it anyway. Are you causing the plant damage to the point where it won't come back next year? Most likely not. The root system is really the heart and soul of the plant, in many respects. It's almost like we should think of most plants really being the root system that we don't see, and the above ground portion is just how it gets energy and produces seeds. The first milkweed I planted in my yard, I thought wouldn't make it. It was there for about two weeks, just these little stalks that I had started inside. Maybe 5 inches high at most. And after two weeks, deer, or something came by and ate each one down to the dirt. (This was before I had a fence, and deer were often midnight visitors.) The next year, milkweed stalks sprouted up from the root system which was still in tact.
Yes, thanks. That helps a lot.
Mya 🦋
Once again you have come up with another big question I had. I found that the younger cats were better off left in a protected outdoor garden area and took them in when they were in their last instar. The natural forces, rain wind, sun build a lot of strength into these guys (and us). So I learned about the power of the natural world and vibrant nutrition from them this summer. Thanks for giving us more information about how to strengthen and protect monarchs. 🐛🦋
Great idea. I’m going to buy an old pop-up tent camper, open all the canvas windows and raise them out there! Just kidding.... but I WAS thinking about out screen tent we used to use camping. No floor, however.... my brain is buzzing! Maybe the mesh pop-ups on a table inside a screen tent... I’ll work on this and get back to you!! Thanks for the video. I’ll be sharing it!
I definitely hope the video helps. It's less about showing people "This is what you must do," and more about showing one way to do it, and inspiring others to have a starting point for their own set up, should they feel they need such a starting point. Good luck with your new ideas!
I rear in those netted enclosures but in my 3 season room. So being screened room all should be good!
Another great video Rich. I built a 3' foot cube and used a fine mesh window screen. It sits on my back patio under a shade sail so that they are not in direct sunlight all day. My daughter released her first two butterfly's on Saturday and we have about a dozen more chrysalis's to go. We have found or first eggs in August so hoping these will be the migrators heading south. We most likely would not have done this if we had not stumbled onto your channel last summer. Thank you for doing what you do...
You're certainly welcome. Pretty awesome to share that with your daughter. Thanks for teaching her early about conservation!
Thank you! I have a covered potting bench outdoors. I'll put my enclosure there where it will be safe from bad weather.
Cool cool. I wish them luck, and hope your migratory season goes well!
Thank you so very much!
I'm just finding this out at the end of my first monarch rearing season. Next year will be all outside! Also, those pop-ups come with handles that can be staked just like a tent.
We learn as we go. Best we can do is work with the best knowledge we have at the time. All should keep in mind, I wasn't doing this until I knew about it too. We're all students.
Having learned from a very bad experience, here is a word of advice. Check any zippers carefully on any pop-up mesh containers before you unzip. Sadly, I did in a caterpillar who had chosen the zipper track to molt on. :(
Ouch. Definitely a good tip. Sorry that this happened. Hopefully it's a rare occurrence.
Hi Rich. I learned in the beginning from you and am very grateful for all you have shared. While I did not sit and listen to this whole presentation, I would like to respectfully share a point of view. We discussed a long time ago your use of critter keepers in your 5 part video series. I purchased exactly what you had in the video. One day I found a butterfly that had fallen off its chrysalis. It laid helplessly on the bottom, unable to climb the sides. Its wings were ruined. That vision is sketched in my memory; it was horrible for a person new to helping the Monarchs. I now have my own group on facebook. I donated 1700 milkweed plants to people in our surrounding area last year. Collectively we released over 6,000 Monarchs for 2021.
While I do not have the scientific expertise you do, I respectfully disagree with positioning your mesh pop ups with the plastic up. I place all of my chrysalides in their own pop up so when they eclose the meconium will not fall onto caterpillars below. However, I have also observed the butterflies love to climb all over the habitat while their wings are drying. Having the plastic side up prevents them from doing that because they cannot grip the plastic. I advise anyone who wants to rear outdoors to have the plastic side down but simply cut a piece of black plastic from heavy duty trash bags and use clips to secure it all around the top. This provides the chrysalides shade, prevents water from getting in, and still allows them a gripable surface on the top. Adding your piece of mesh or screening is a great idea but more work than it seems to be.
The same as with your rope stretched across your screened in porch and the chrysalides hanging with a clip. If they fall, that is a long way to fall and they have nothing to climb. I prefer to keep mine in the mesh pop ups, plastic side down (actually I purchase them with no plastic at all), and on my porch. Thank you for all you do to help Save the Monarchs.
Last year lots of my indoor-reared monarchs released in the fall conspicuously bolted straight south, whereas none traveled in that direction in early-to-mid summer. Aware of the risk of artificial lighting cycles, I reared them in a room that maintained the natural light cycle, which is a likely migratory cue.
It would make sense that the light cycle is primarily important, or perhaps even the sole cue that is important, as it's something that all Monarchs would experience more or less the same, save for cloud cover on a given day. What would seem ripe for experiment at this point would be to have one group receive outdoor, pop-up tent conditions, one group receive indoor conditions with artificial sunlight that matches the shortening of the days as in fall, and another group that receives light that isn't artificial sunlight (but just say, your normal bulb house lights) that also matches the shortening of days in fall. Then we could see how much that cycle is necessary, and if indoor reared can be convinced they are "outdoors" enough to have the orientation behavior, and if to be convinced, it's necessary to use proper UV bulbs, or if any indoor lighting works just the same. As I make a point of to describe to my students, upon just about every scientific answer to one question, it usually opens up plenty of new questions.
Well-thought out research program! I wonder how many reared monarchs one needs for reasonably strong statistical evidence. Like if you just have 20 in one of those sub-cohorts, that's surely not enough. So what is enough reared monarchs? 200, 2,000?
This year I was setting up to rear outdoors -- I planned to grow milkweed under a tent and put cats in there -- but decided not to. But, FYI, I researched on tents and found the best tent to get. Here's an example of an outdoor rearing tent used by scientists:
th-cam.com/video/KilPRvjbMrA/w-d-xo.html
Notice they're keeping the small enclosures in that tent. And that tent is the same tent used in the study you cite in this video (noted in the supplements pdf file). I got an email from someone at U Michigan pointing me to the exact tent in that video, this: bioquipinc.com/catalog/cages-materials/outdoor-cages-sleeves/outdoor-cage-mesh-enclosures/ and the 18 x 14 screen-mesh option. There are cheaper tents but that aren't made for the task at hand.
The small mesh enclosures you're using, when outdoors can be chewed through and the chrysalids eaten by a predator. People have posted photos on facebook of that having happened, holes chewed right through, although I expect it's somewhat rare. But if a mouse is starving to death except for that cloth mesh standing between him and some tasty chrysalids, he's fed!
@@iamgoddard Yes, tents like that were used, to my knowledge. I never had the link exactly to them, but Dr. Kronforst had described such to me. Getting one of those in your back yard is some "next level" stuff, for sure!
What started as a mere curiosity has evolved Into a rewarding pastime. Use the white mesh habitats and they’re quite effective. Until now I’ve had six pots with mw, but after a surge of 18 “cats”, the plants have been been devastated-as expected. I had to transfer some “babies “ out Into the garden. Now I’m planting five more pots to increase my supply. We’re in central Florida
After the latest news of the Monarch numbers from both California and Mexico, I was wondering if you're going to make a video about it as well as the verdict of their endangered species status. I haven't seen any news coverage yet and it would be a nice topic to cover for the beginning of the year. Thanks so much, love your videos, you helped my Monarch hobby flourish :)
Rich year 2, now have 600 milkweed thanks to you, 150 from supplied seeds( swamp weed,common,butterfly,blood flower,silky formula,autumn blaze,showy) and 450 wild seeds from local/family farmer
Please consider using this with live potted plants or in ground plants. There’s microbes in living plants that are not found in harvested/ picked leaves. 😊
I’ve not killed a single caterpillar or butterfly so far this season..first batch was 17 cats.. my current batch is over 65 cats that I’m currently in taking care of… yea it’s a lot of caterpillars and a lot of work.. but I’m thankful I have several milkweed plants to feed them..and I really love raising them and releasing them
My teacher is the best omg
Well the migration patterns are based upon temperature and likely humidity and sun, so if those three conditions are met, they should be in pretty good shape.
I have one of these cages for my instars 3-5. I bought a tiny 6 inch mesh cage for my 1st-2nd instars. I added some butternut squash and cucumber to the larger cage to supplement the milkweed just in case they run out while I'm at work. Unfortunately, this attracted some squirrel (or less likely raccoon) to the cage which is sitting on my balcony. They tore a hole in the cage and attempted to pull the veggies out. Please be aware of veggies attracting other animals with the outdoor rearing!
hoosieraussis1 Do not give them butternut squash. If you’re low on Milkweed then don’t raise as many Monarchs.
hoosieraussis1 mind if I ask where you got those 6 inch cages?
@@Kathy151 I got on Amazon. Here's the link: smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R8PS731/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I found a 7.5 inch one that I like even better. I found the 6 in to be a little small if you want to place your milkweed upright. Plus I like the front entry on the 7.5 in way easier to deal with than the top entry on the 6 in. Here's the link: smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F15Y733/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
@@anti0918 I never actually ran out of milkweed, and they did get milkweed every day. I work long days (often 14-16 hours), and I was worried they would run out of food while I was gone. I added the squash to supplement the milkweed. I'm new to raising monarchs, so I'm still trying to predict just how much food they will eat in a day, especially since it changes daily.
What are your opinions on the cucumber? The same as the squash?
hoosieraussis1
I ignore the opinions; all of the well-based resources I have seen clearly state not to depend on any other material to serve as a substitute for the M.B. Cats to feed on. Period. I have a tunnel-shaped individual net cage I somehow got 3 years ago as a newbie and don’t know why unless for some odd reason I thought it could come in handy to transport. I have occasionally used it for the random “rogue”, or wild cat, found outside in the garden on the Common M.W., thus she/he was then isolated from ones raised as eggs. Hope it’s all well and doing ok this season, best regards.
I placeD my first hatchling outside in a pop up enclosure and he vanished the next day! I was beside myself!! I looked through the whole enclosure and couldn’t find him. I placed lots of leaves and he didn’t eat them. When the second hatchling emerged, I raised him indoors but after 10 days he was only 0.75 in but already a 4th instar! I learned this from the saving monarch Facebook community. I placed him outside and he’s going to pupate any day. Since he hatched august 15, he’s supposed to be a super monarch but at barely 1 in long and skinny, I don’t know if he’ll be a migrator. I watch many of your videos and have learned a lot but I wanted to tell you that it’s not a good idea to suggest that we place newly hatched cats outdoors in a large enclosure without closing the lid. But they could fry if placed in a lidded container!
Another great video! I am just starting and have learned so much thank you! I use those pop up tents myself (except i have been standing them up tall where handles are on top) and i have 8 chrysalis(s) and 8-10 eggs, caterpillars growing at different stages. Should I move them outdoors now or wait until the next round when I can start outside from the beginning?
While we don't know, it is possible that outdoor exposure starting somewhere during development could be enough to cause them to be migratory. It's an unknown. But when in doubt, we shouldn't assume they wouldn't be able to, but hope that they can. If it's feasible, I'd move it outside.
I have the same mesh container and sewed cheese cloth on the top. I hope it works.
Thank you! That was very thoughtful, comprehensive and informative, Mr Lund.
In my city we have a lot of raccoons and they like to play with/destroy and even eat caterpillars, butterflies, and chrysalids. I learned this the hard way. I know the answer is "we don't know" but I wonder if leaving the tents outside all day and then taking them in at night would be "outdoors enough". I think building an outdoor raccoon proof cage to put the tents in is beyond my skill level. Plus, I've seen racoons tear through chicken wire. They're very determined! Any ideas or thoughts from the community are welcome. Thanks!
Yeah I am kinda thinking that one got mine, last night. It really mad me angry. I still am!!!
Em H THAT was my question also, as I pondered this information! Keep them indoors and safe at night, and set them outside for as many hours as possible during the day! I’m hopeful that would work!
The pop up tents need not be as low as I show mine. Is there a way to elevate it onto something that allows water to still drain from the tent, but also makes things more difficult for a night time bandit?
Unless put on my non-screened but covered front porch with ambient outdoor lighting I fear nocturnal critters, as well. I am grateful I have that open but covered porch option, hoping that no intruders would be brave enough to visit the space. We have skunks, opossums, and raccoons out at night, even walking around within mere yards of the house. It would be very difficult to avoid the attacks by raccoons if they wanted the cages for whatever reason, as they are curious and intelligent and I know from personal experience that they are smart enough and have the use of their paws to unbelievably open a shut/latched outdoor cooler and get the lid off the top of our metal birdseed containers that are difficult for a person to pull off, unless they are forcibly locked down. The question I do not choose to attempt to answer through experience is would they possibly be curious about a pop-up tent outdoors, elevated or not, being drawn possibly by the scent of the cats and/or the milkweed?
Hi, a good update! (we especially need it in this challenging year)~over the entire season 2020 raising MB outdoors there have been NO problems, without a single cage disturbed nor any episodes of cats or MBs being harmed! The 2’ x’ 2’x net cages are on an open, but covered, porch, raised 2 feet above the floor upon 2 old heavy gliders. Still since our farmhouse is in the middle of complete darkness I was concerned as I had somehow pictured marauding wildlife coming up on the dark porch to make mischief. Though I know literally by nature wild animals are afraid of and avoid human contact, it still worried me. Also remember mammals like my kitty and pup and also birds avoid contact with MBs in cat or adult butterfly form, recognizing them as a toxic insect. Sooooo glad it went perfectly well. I love being outdoors anyway so now there is one more good reason to check on my guys a couple of times a day. Hope everyone w/ concerns have by now found ways to work them out and have good spots for their cages. The 2’ x 2’ tiny mesh screen net cages, green bordered white net ones, are around $12 @ Amazon, have tiny screen/net that prevents even the smallest of any sort of bug from getting inside. Even the smart, smallest ants cannot get in unless they sneak in while you are doing caterpillar/butterfly maintenance, so I give it a good check before re-zipping the open side. Best of luck to all now and through the coming seasons, be safe, stay home if you can, and remember to follow protocol. If you must go out, wear a facemask, maintain 6 feet or more distance between others, and wash hands! Order groceries and supplies to pick up or have delivered if available. Peace.
Awesome
It's been working well so far.
Well, I collected 20 eggs yesterday. I guess it’s time to go figure out how to put them outside.
I hope this video can help give some the starting point they may desire in forming an outdoor enclosure, should they choose to do so. Good luck!
I have a pop up like yours, and mine is now elevated and covered with plastic (will be replacing). Tried to copy and past pic in here, but would not work. I built a 2x4 open box to hold 2 of the popups, and have some plastic sheeting and covered it as it is raining today, and I wanted the top to be the mesh. I am thrilled to have found 4 more cats today, and now have 1 in chrysalis, one j hanging, and 3 tiny one with 5 more that are larger!
Yeah, TH-cam currently doesn't let pics be posted in comments. (I wonder if that will someday change...)
For now, though, videos (even picture slide shows) can be uploaded to your TH-cam account, and the link to such could be placed in a comment. Or, if other social media (such as Twitter or Instagram) are used to post pics, links to those pics on those platforms could be posted in comments as well.
I screened in a wooden crate and had some wooden doors that were also screened.
Mr Lund, I love your videos. You've been such a HUGE inspiration to me.
Do you have any suggestions for keeping milkweed OE free in the garden? The only way I can think of is making a spray bottle of the bleach solution, temporarily evicting cats, removing leaves with eggs, spraying the plant and hosing off.
I live in New Zealand where OE is rampant. I bleach my eggs etc but my garden plants are huge and highly trafficked by monarchs. There are eggs I often don't find (despite investing countless hours searching each week) and they've hatched by then.
Thank you for your time 😊
I have just recently found your videos and found them VERY informative. Most of the tips I was already doing - growing milkweed, hunting eggs, using mesh cages, etc. I have raised Monarchs for three years with 28 released the first year and 100% success rate; second year 38 released and only three didn't make it (know I had a t. fly in one and another had trouble coming out of chrysalis. The third was a mystery) This third year I have 60 - grew my own milkweed so I think that is why I have so many - so we'll see how well they do. However, I did not know about outdoor raising. One question: When raising indoors I use my dining room table - rarely use that room - but it is dark! Do I need to keep the light on during the day? Haven't heard if light and dark have an affect.
Great work & presentation providing information so we can make good, safe decisions when outdoor wild-raising any upcoming new eggs. The 2' wide net w/green trim cages are identical to the ones I found and have proven to be ideal for the last two groups of eggs raised once they were in 4-5th instar stages. The groups of 12 and 9 were found in my garden area about 7-10 days apart. I personally think it may be possible to keep the cages on our covered front porch at night as well as in the day, if weighted and on top of the heavy gliders. We have not had our farm nocturnal wildlife creatures venture there historically, including our current families of shy skunks, wandering opossums, and raccoons all of which tend to stick mainly to the outbuildings. If need be I would bring them indoors just after dark til the coast is clear in the a.m., with a set up that will be like you demonstrated in the video. Eggs & 1-2 instars will be still kept indoors for that short time out of concern for their containers being disturbed easily by movement or wind, (the plastic food ones similar to what you use that have proven to be the best choice for safely keeping the tiny guys). Hope everyone has a successful late summer/early fall monarch season.
Just having the first year of trying these outdoor set ups out, there's people who have used them outdoors before mentioning that raccoons and other nocturnal mammals (including mice) have sometimes crashed the party. It doesn't sound to be a common thing, but there's a chance for it. So, keeping these containers some place where they are less likely to be approached by such (and WHO KNOWS what such a place is for raccoons...they go everywhere), is a good idea, for sure.
MrLundScience Hi. Thinking the front covered porch is still a good possibility through the night as well as for sure a good place during the day. Can't you keep the cages inside your porch and still hang the chrysalides on the yarn line? Since I am in the habit of always checking-in on cats and home alot I am confident they will be ok but ideally would prefer and would use the screened-in setting if it was here. In the yard or on the uncovered patio still seem risky, at least for me. Did you say that you decided to stick to your usual practice of keeping eggs indoors since there is a risk of small things blowing around? I plan on doing this and may also let the 1-2 instar containers stay inside as well, moving 4-5 instars and maybe 3rd instars into the net cages which work really well. FYI for the net cages I still keep using milkweed cuttings wrapped in damp paper towels, avoiding cuttings placed off the floor in water,(flower piks). It's simple to move the herd around when its time to clean-up and add fresh milkweed. Cats can be injured falling from cuttings. I have not used potted plants, either. Did you normally go straight from the animal containers to the chrysalides hanging on the "yarn clothesline"? Wouldn't that porch still provide the desired outdoor surrounding for raising every cat if they are within the net cages? I still think its a great reason to add a screened-in porch @ our house as soon as possible! lol Posting photos on Instagram soon. I just had a mama monarch leave 25 eggs in our garden!
@@Debbiesnc Eggs, I allow to hatch inside still, yes. I don't want the little leaf squares blowing around. Once hatched, though, 1st instar onward is reared in an outdoor pop up tent, as shown. I have 1st and 2nd instars in one, and 3rd - 4th in another, and 5th gets their own, and they form the chrysalis in there. Once the chrysalis is formed, I relocate it still to the yarn in my porch. I could be wrong, but I don't see a reasonable argument for how the screened in porch would allow less environmental cues than a pop up tent. The screened in porch is pretty much a much larger pop up tent.
Could I keep my pop up tents in the screened in porch? Would that be outdoors enough? Again, the default answer would be, I don't know, other than, the more outdoor exposure, the better. But, I still am keeping the pop up tents outdoors so that I can learn what that's like first hand, and be able to advise issues that I find pop up, no pun intended. (Okay...it was intended.) If I don't do what I know others are doing, I won't learn what can go wrong, and how to trouble shoot it. Nothing's gone wrong yet, but I want to see how well this set up does.
I think there'd still be strong advantages to having a screened in porch, for sure. If that's your plan, that's a real cool addition, and I doubt you'll regret it. Getting to be outdoors without mosquitoes getting you is ALREADY worth it.
MrLundScience somehow I just lost the comments I left so I apologize if you end up somehow getting two of them! I appreciate you doing the outdoor setup as it will be of interest to us all as well as, like you said, give you more understanding helping trouble-shoot and answering people's questions. Where can we put a video or photo of our own outdoor set ups? Hopefully everyone will be creative and customize their habitats according to their individual needs, but are all consistently mindful paying attention to the main features that you explained when it comes to protecting all the cats and chrysalides being exposed to the elements. After-all they are "captive audiences" unable to move or adjust their own placement~! If we all consider that they may face flooding from rain, run-off, or low-lying areas as well as go through unusual wind-gusts, natural but direct sunlight and extremely hot temperatures, then our cats should be okay. The nocturnal animals as well as the domesticated pets and farm creatures are to be considered, as well. Cats cannot survive being tossed around or turned over very easily! My new 34 ?!? Eggs are about to be treated w/ the bleach/h2O solution before tucking into their safe spot indoors til, like you said, they hatch and can go outdoors. I need to re-visit how you prepared the space for the tiny instars inside the plastic containers within the larger pop-up tent. It will be a great thing if we are impacting this coming migrating generation! Best wishes to everyone.
@@Debbiesnc If people wish to share their set up, the easiest option I can think of would be to simply upload a video of it to TH-cam. It need not be edited in a fancy way. And if it's someone who has been leaving comments, by default, they must then already have a TH-cam account, whether they realize it or not. (If you have a gmail email account, that *is* your TH-cam account name, and with the same password. Not everyone immediately knows this. But, if you sign into your gmail, you *have* signed into your TH-cam account.) And then, people can put a link to it in their comments.
Other options exist, though, such as uploading video or pics to other social media (Twitter, Instagram, etc.) and then providing the link to it here in the comments.
My friend had a short, wide container with a mesh top and it roasted one of them. When its 90 degrees, it doesn't take much to get way too hot.
My Monarch Migration Station (basically, a screened in tent) has been working great! I still keep eggs and small cats in small containers on porch outside then move them in the tent. Thank you for all your advice!
Very welcome! Thank you for doing what you can to help them out!
Thank you for addressing this topic. With the new research, we have probably all been experimenting with new methods. I had a 3rd instar caterpiller escape. I assume I wasn't careful enough with the zipper. My mesh tent is smaller than yours but I was shocked that he found that opening and was nowhere to be found. So I became very protective of the little guys and kept them in the to go containers in the deep shade with a rock on top for stability until 4th instar. I am suspicious that i may not have given theses cats enough exposure-yikes. I'm also thinking a milkweed plant near where the mesh enclosure is placed outside would make us feel better about the survival chances for an escapee like i had. Question: when they are released, if we provided enough exposure to the outside elements, should they fly south or southwest upon release?
Greetings! Thanks for taking it upon yourself to put in the extra effort of exposing them to outdoor conditions. To answer your question about which way they would fly upon release, I'm happy to be able to answer this one. The quick answer would be "no", we can't trust from what direction they fly that they are migratory or not. In discussing the experiment that lead to the results of the study with one of the researchers, he let me know that at first, when they used the flight simulator to measure direction, they didn't at first use a barrier to eliminate visual distractions. When they were first running the simulator, the butterflies they were measuring were going in some very different directions than expected, and consistently. Upon further investigation, they realized that someone's yellow shirt they were wearing was the direction the butterflies were often trying to head towards. Upon blocking the visual cues, this yellow shirt variable was eliminated, and the data became more of what was expected, to where if the Monarchs had an overall direction shown in the data, it was south. So, if you release in your back yard, and the Monarch is migratory, it might fly south, but it might be immediately interested in plenty of other things that it can see. It very much has the chance of flying in random directions. Equally, if a Monarch isn't migratory and you release it, it too may fly off in any direction that looks appealing to it at the moment, and sometimes that direction could be south, even though it's not migratory. I hope that makes sense.
Hi, I absolutely love your channel! I'm just starting my Butterfly garden and am wondering if you had any luck rooting cuttings in water? I harvested them from the side of the road here in Michigan.
I have not attempted such. Sorry. I have tried transplanting an adult plant twice now, and both times, it did not at all work out. I've always had success, though, with germinating seeds and starting them that way. I show this in a shorter series, "Planting Milkweed". There's 4 Parts to that one. Here's the first: th-cam.com/video/c_d1FMJiLo8/w-d-xo.html
Hey Mr. Lund! I was given a common milkweed plant years ago. I currently have about 8 chrysalises and a few caterpillars. I am actually in Troy, Michigan.
Unbeknownst to me, two disappeared (chrysalises) last night. I am not sure what ate them but I AM SUPER PISSED. I am thinking of moving them all to a safe place, after this travesty.
I am enjoying the videos and learning quite a bit. So far we have had two monarchs hatch, that we know of...I think there have been a few more. But I am thinking of just making an environment.
Many who have talked to me over the years have been in a similar category, where they have milkweed in their yards to help the Monarchs, and it can be very excited when those first caterpillars wind up there. They watch them every day to check in on their progress. And then, they see first hand just how brutal nature is to them. It's up to each individual how far they want to delve into this. Just having milkweed in your yard is already the number one way to help them. But, some people have let me know that they don't have time to actually rear them, but when they do find that one has made it to the chrysalis stage, they'll take the chrysalis to a protected area so that they can ensure the rest goes well. (And certainly some do that...and then they realize that they want to ensure more make it to the chrysalis and start delving in further...)
Whatever your level of commitment you decide upon, know that you're already awesome to have the milkweed there in the first place!
Hi, that must have been a bummer losing some! When I understood how many monarchs do not make it due to predators, I began wild-raising the ones I found, later learning about and raising them from eggs. It does call for a lot a lot of milkweed, though, but if you have common milkweed it should be shooting up new plants from the large, deep taproot. That would be a great way to be able to feed the ones you wild-raise. Be sure to catch all of the videos about raising them. I am really into and enjoying watching thriving cats and healthy chrysalides leading up to the release back out into the wild! Good luck.
MrLundScience That chrysalis fell and got cannibalized. Now it’s 3 chrysalis, one forming one, and 4 lollygagging. Put too many in one enclosure. Started with 18 eggs. 2-3 were duds. Then 5-6 disappeared over time (probably cannibalized). It’s good data, though.
We learn as we go. It can be hit and miss some times, but as long as we learn what we can from any set backs, it's still valuable. Helps us refine. Good luck with the others!
HI Rich. Did you have success with the j-hanging on the plastic top? should I put up a type of mesh? I am a "first mom'. I have 3 caterpillars. One is older than the other 2. I watch all your Monarch videos & am inspired. Thank you.
Thank you so much for your videos! I pretty much binge watched all of them today! I live in Los Angeles and am wondering if I need to be concerned about whether or not to raise them outdoors. Do the Southern California monarchs migrate to Mexico too or just the ones East of the Rockies? I just saw a Monarch on my potted milkweed today. I brought 18 eggs inside and will wait for them to hatch but wondering if I should put them back outside onto the plants in a mesh butterfly tent like the one you used in your video once they hatch or do the indoor thing or do the outdoor thing you suggested in this video with the containers, cuttings and bricks. I will have to supplement my plants either way because I only have two and there won't be enough leaves for all of these guys. Help! This is my first time doing this!
Greetings Jane!
All Monarch populations in North America are migratory. Those west of the Rockies still migrate, just not to Mexico, but instead, to forests along the Pacific coast. And for those reasons, what is discussed in this video about outdoor rearing for the Mexico migratory population still applies.
I hope that helps! Good luck!
What are those big leaves you are feeding them? I just found 16 cats on my milkweed and at least 5 more eggs! I bought more milkweed but the store o my had 2 plants left! Help! Thanks for all this great info!
Great video, thanks!
I’m wondering if the study said anything about the orientation of the chrysalis. I’ve noticed that most caterpillars orient themselves in the same way (maybe toward the light, or toward north?) when they j-hang. Is it possible that changing that orientation when moving the chrysalis could impact their ability to successfully migrate?
They did not mention this, so the answer is in the "I don't know" category.
However, that they didn't mention it in the study would likely mean, it wasn't something they kept track, nor something they ensured happened. And since the data showed their outdoor reared wild sourced Monarchs did have a strong migratory group behavior, if it's something they didn't keep track of, it doesn't seem that it would be significant. Still, full blown honesty, it's possible that a certain orientation might somehow make one chrysalis more likely to receive environmental cues better than another. Duration of sunlight, and even angle of the sun in the sky may very well play a large role as an environmental cue. And we know that a chrysalis must receive environmental cues, though how it gets that info is not well known. So, if a chrysalis is "pointing" in one direction, and another "pointing" 90 degrees differently, could one receive more/better information from the sun as it crosses the sky? Certainly possible. How important that angle would be, totally unknown, and again, unknown if it's important at all in the first place.
How do you sanitize the pop up tent? I cant put in washing machine so do I just wash by hand with bleach solution and rinse with hose? Love your videos!
Yes! My set up is good. My concern was my newly hatched, 1st and 2nd instars, and chrysalises. I have been using 2oz diamond cups with lids in groups of 5, to make the tiny ones easier to count. I have been keeping them indoors cause I was worried about them getting fried in the cups. So I cut the lid and put a mesh to allow air in. I put the 2nd instars in that. Then put them on a plate that is hanging in a mesh that is repurposed from a dress tulle. To make holes smaller, I layered the material 2 to 3 times. Then hung my habitats in the middle of my butterfly garden from a repurposed dog wash station. I will have to tweek my set up a little bit after watching this video. In the meantime, I will be making a video to upload to my channel @rPart. This will be my 1st upload. Thanks so much Mr.Lund!!!
i can't wait to see your video, please link it here when you complete it? 🙏
I had my 5th instars in a mesh pop up since they were second instar outside but in the shade when I moved them to a sunnier area, they went from docile to completely agitated. I had to put a lot cold milkweed from the fridge in to hopefully help them calm down as I had some in j-hang. I guess I’m just wondering if the direct sunlight is actually needed? Don’t then usually feed on the underside of the leaves??
Still, I absolutely love your educational videos as this is my first year and the videos have been a literal life saver. Thank you.
I use Gain bra bags for the 1st & 2 instar stages....with a plastic bowl inside....works great. Dollar general sells them in a 3 pack.
It'll be cool to see your set up. Hope this helped!
Again, we'd be in the gray area of "I don't know".
However:
1) The pop-up tents used in the experiment that produced successful results prevented full direct sunlight. Only the sunlight that made it through the mesh.
2) Monarchs in nature, as you mention, are often not in direct sunlight, but in the shade. Sometimes a shady area. Sometimes, just the underside of the leaf.
So, I would be shocked if direct sunlight was a requirement.
So I’m on my 5th year now collecting monarch caterpillars from my several milkweed plants.. I live in north Florida so I have mostly tropical milkweed which doesn’t die back during winter.. I know some things about OE spores… I also know about washing monarch eggs with a concoction of isopropyl alcohol and water to kill OE spores..so last year of rearing butterflies went really well.. most were OE free.some weren’t and we’re euthanized.I hate putting to sleep a beautiful butterfly.. so this year 2021 when I started getting female monarchs to lay eggs I gathered the eggs and sprayed them with 10% isopropyl alcohol and 90% water..and fed them till they emerged. I did the tape test of each butterfly and viewed them under a microscope.. first one no OE. Second one no OE..I’ve released 17 monarch butterflies and all 17 were OE free..and I also sprayed down my milkweed cuttings with the same concoction and rinsed them well under water before feeding the caterpillars.. this is my plan to do now on.. if I get eggs I spray them and rinse them..if I find baby caterpillars I spray them and rinse them.. and all clippings of milkweed get sprayed and rinsed well before offering them the milkweed
You may not see this comment, but l can confirm that temperature increases can kill monarch instar 1 babies. Here in Florida, it's already hot and l made the fatal mistake of keeping them outside (in the shade) in closed containers. All but 1 died. l found a UFL study that also indicated the toxin in milkweed, especially tropical milkweed, increases in elevated heat and could become toxic even to monarchs. So sad, but l won't make that same mistake again and your videos are helping so much. Currently have 4 chrysalis outside on the fence and more eggs being laid every day.
we are in the Sarasota area and have lots of questions is there anyone or place to go to for info for here?
Thank you for the video, really great ideas and set up. I wanted to ask if your outdoor tents are in direct sunlight or mostly shade? I don't think you mentioned in the video. I noticed the wild milkweed grow mostly in places with lots of sunlight (but the caterpillars I have found usually live on the underside where they are not in the direct light). Thanks.
Stephanie Ip-Tin hi til he catches up and answers this I would highly recommend re-watching the video. Also consider yes any place that is covered is preferable to none at all. If partial shade is all available then need to recheck if it’s going to work as they must have shade 24 /7 once taken in and unable to move around as they would in the wild. Best!
Greetings Stephanie! I do apologize for the delay. Things are full of problems to solve in the teaching world right now, and as part of a Safety Team to help roll out the physical logistics of our school year, I've been swamped. While Monarchs are severely important to me, I had to end my season early. Duty called, and I was needed elsewhere. That said, you have a great question here! I placed them where they were in shade for the majority of the day, as it was where a neighbor's two trees would block the more intense portions of the sunlight. However, direct sunlight could reach them during morning hours, and I'm estimating here, but from about 9:00am to maybe 11:00am, on average, during the month of August. When direct sunlight hits these, though, I'm not severely concerned provided the glossy side of it is in the downward position. This makes for easy frass clean up, provides just that one more side of air flow, and also, makes every direction that the sun could hit, already somewhat shaded. So long as fresh leaves are present for the caterpillars to eat on, keep in mind, they still then should have the ability to choose if they feed on the topside or underside of the leaf, just as they would with a milkweed plant that is in direct sunlight. So, while I haven't tested it out, I wouldn't have concern if I placed these in direct sunlight, provided the caterpillars had the opportunity to chose to self shade. If concerned, though, perhaps pinning just some light weight fabric to some of the mesh so that one side is a bit more shaded is enough to provide something you find more optimal? Just an idea.
Okay, so full disclosure, I think if I remember correctly, the reason I chose the location was two reasons. The first and most important reason was that this was a place I could see from where I sit in my porch so that I could see if my male pug was about to try and "mark" it. So, that narrowed down the location choices, but I knew if I couldn't watch him, he'd be tempted. After that, I just thought the bushes were good for video background. That was it.
Good luck!
Much appreciated. ;-)
@@MrLundScience hi, sorry about your taking a break with your favorite butterflies, that hurts, but at least look at the legacy, and all the help and startups and follow ups you have created for all of us out here who are doing a lot of it for you!! I can only imagine how busy you must be, and have been thinking about you. Firstly, no words for what a tough year for everyone this is, predicted to worsen, and for teachers, medical workers, & first responders in particular. We have gone, in N. C., from opening the likes of public schools, then retracting that, announcing that no in-person classrooms, of course because the writing was on the wall and the predictable did happen- horrific increases in numbers of coronavirus and COVID-19 across N. C., almost 40 states so far in the U.S., and around the planet, as well. I guess nothing and no one will be completely candid and be able to follow the science, until the election is over- so politicians are acting like politicians act . Period. Cannot wait til it’s over.
Hi Mr. Lund! Thank you for all that you do and for all of the knowledge you have passed on to others!!!
I was hoping you'd have a second to answer a question because lots of them are popping in to my head after watching your videos about this study. I know this is probably an "I don't know" answer, but I thought I'd be annoying and ask anyways.... I just learned about the study of indoor vs outdoor rearing, so all my my caterpillars have been raised indoors in indirect sunlight. Right now I have 34 chrysalides and 35 caterpillars, all 2nd instar and above that I brought in the end of July and beyond. I'm wondering if since in the study bringing those chrysalides in for 3 or 4 days caused their migratory patterns to shift, would bringing all of mine outside at this point make any difference at all? (Insert "I don't know" here??)
After I heard about this it kind of broke my heart. It's tough when you put so much time, effort and heart in to something only to find out your efforts might be for nothing. This was my first year doing this too because all of my caterpillars that have done well on my milkweed plants in the past have been eaten this year-only 1 successful chrysalis that I saw the beginning of July.
You are an amazing human and I fully believe that the Monarchs are doing better because of you. Oh! This year I went from 7 milkweed plants in my yard to 36 and I'm still planting!!!
Questions are never annoying. If someone doesn't like questions, they shouldn't become a teacher!
First, I would not say your efforts are all for naught.
Some things to keep in mind about the study:
1) The soon after eclosing flight orientation is what was measured. Whether or not individuals would have a strong inclination to fly south, and then that data was compiled to find an average direction, and an average strength to go in that direction.
2) Those reared "indoors" did not show a strong inclination to go south *as a group average*, but *some individuals did*. So worst case scenario, some of the Monarchs you raise may still migrate, and again, that's worst case scenario.
3) The study did not do anything to measure if days later, those same Monarchs would orientate more south. Is it possible that as adults, they can still receive environmental cues that cause them to possibly migrate? It's possible. It should be stated here, though, that part of what is involved in being a migratory Monarch is being in diapause. This prevents their reproductive organs from fully developing until the next spring. So, while some have brought up that maybe an adult reared indoors might still migrate, how the "not being in diapause" issue would work out, I don't know that we know that yet.
4) Tags have been collected from deceased Monarchs that did successfully migrate, and their data can be tracked back to people who home reared them. Whether they were reared indoors or outdoors is not known, but it's a safe assumption that prior to this study, more people reared indoors than out.
5) Very important - it's still August. Doing what you can now to get them outdoor exposure may be enough to give them the cues to become migratory.
6) While the study showed evidence that being removed from the outdoor conditions for only 3 or 4 days was enough to have those Monarchs not show migratory behavior compared to the rest of the outdoor group, we still do not know:
A) Could an equally short time of outdoor cues be enough to put the Monarch caterpillars on the migratory development track?
B) Instead of a combination of environmental cues, is it just perhaps the duration of sunlight? Thus, could it be that those who rear indoors, but near windows where indirect sunlight reaches them, could that be enough to cause more migratory behavior in groups reared in such a way?
7) For the "indoors" group, they received constant 14 hrs of simulated sunlight each day. The length of time of 14 hrs was not changed throughout their development.
So, with all that in mind, I don't know that we know enough to fully discount home, indoor reared Monarchs. What we do know is that the more outdoor exposure they receive in development, the more likely they are to orient south, similar to wild Monarchs caught and measured during the same time of the season.
So, I definitely hope this info helps put you a bit at ease. Get them more outdoor exposure in whatever way is feasible for you. And if it makes you feel any better, prior to this study, I reared all of mine each year indoors until the chrysalis stage. We learn as we go.
Thank you so very much for taking the time to give me such a well thought out response that does give me a little bit of peace.
It does seem as though there is a lot of unanswered questions left, doesn't it? That's what science is all about, I guess!
Love your videos. So helpful! I would like to build a walk in outdoor enclosure, SE Wisconsin.
Have you researched this? Fine mesh roof or solid? What works for potted milkweed?
Fine mesh and or solid floor? Can I build something I can leave out all year?
Can you do an episode on building a walk in enclosure ?
Hey, that's certainly a cool idea...but...I don't see that happening. I have a smile on my face as I say that though. I've tried to always make Raising Monarchs not from the perspective of the absolute best way to do something, but from the perspective of showing how I do something, and how I do it at as minimum a cost as possible. There's two reasons to this. First, if you can make it something attainable, something that even a financial barrier or inconvenience can't stand in the way of, more people are likely to get involved. Second, (and here's where the smile comes in) I myself do not have much of an expendable budget to take on such a task. Being on a teacher budget, and growing up without a huge one made me want to try and approach it from this angle. Make sense?
But yes, very cool idea! And that's certainly a video topic I think would be cool for someone to pick up!
Hey, how’s it going up there?? It’s been a banner year for me releasing over 90% healthy MB here in N.C., more numbers than ever, learned a lot through experience, so I get it as you say you smile at this question. Still I would love it if you did this, too! It’s last-round of releasing MB here, Oct. 25, the eclosed tucked in outside as usual in their mesh cages on the porch, chilly rainy weather all day, and I , like this fan, am wishing for you to do a video on building a structure! I think it’s because I cringe at what I see online, wishing I didn’t even go there sometimes, with DIY’ers showing their habitat for wild-rearing MBs projects, ranging from ok to bad to worse. Thanks for everything you do! P.S. hmm wondering if budget was the main restriction, perhaps there is a solution....
My question is for us along coastal California; our monarchs really don’t migrate and are struggling the most. Would it be advisable to raise outdoors with this population? I’ve seen both arguments and it’s so confusing for our San Diego Monarch Facebook Group! Thanks for all your helpful info! I started planting milkweed (plus milkweed evangelism) AND monarch raising with your channel’s help. First year and I’m on #50 to be released very soon! 💖🦋
Hey Marcie!
I don't pretend to be well versed with the Pacific coastline migratory populations. When looking at maps about it, it seems that there are multiple populations that migrate to different areas, sometimes the same area, and sometimes are not migratory and stay in the same area. If your location is one where there are naturally Monarchs all year round, then I would assume that no, they likely do not need to be outdoors. Also, though, knowing the kind of guy I am, if I were in your shoes, I know I'd be wondering, "What if I'm wrong? What if some of the Monarch populations overlap, and I'm in that territory? What if most of the eggs I raise aren't of a migratory population, but some are?" These are the questions I'd have, so I know to be on the safe side, I'd rear them outdoors. That's not me telling you (or anyone else) what to do. I'm just stating what I would likely do in the same situation. And, I'd probably try to reach out to others who know more about the migratory populations in my area. I hope that can help in some way.
I have mesh tent outside on my porch . I have a potted milkweed plant inside along with 2 bricks to hold it down from blowing. My cat has made it's chrysalis, hanging from 1 of the milkweed leaves . So far so good. I have more cats inside in a container, they are big enough now to move to the tent but will they bother the chrysalis that's already there?
I love your videos lots of good information. Thanks so much, Dee
Dee Jackson Most likely they won’t bother it.
There is a small chance that caterpillars will nibble on a chrysalis. It's a pretty small chance, but it can happen. So, they aren't likely to bother it, but there's no guarantees that they won't.
Unfortunately twice I have witnessed cats aggressively harming or attempting to harm a fixed-forming-chrysalis. I have one that was apparently in the the final stages of forming the chrysalis when it was chewed upon by a 5th-instar caterpillar. I caught her/him close to the poor injured-looking thing right after it had obviously just happened. I have kept that one hoping for the best. I seriously thought I had checked-in on them often enough, having seen this curiosity almost happen before when I was able to deter the guilty party. They were in a large net-cage with fresh milkweed where they could literally wander endlessly without encountering another chrysalis. Without handling the curious one I simply deterred her/him by gently placing a milkweed leaf between the two, and even then, it took awhile for the "bullies" to move further away. Next morning upon awakening: yes, the two who had been "bugging" the older one had formed chrysalides right beside her, along with even more who had settled on the same side of the cage, and no damage. All cats were in the same 5th instar stage, not crowded with 12-16 cats in the 2' x 2' size pop-up tent with separate cages for the younger instars. I know this happens to others. Even if all cats in one cage are 5th instars, one goes first, so then there may be the problem of the "wandering" cat. They all eclosed and were released beautifully. I could not have prevented either incident though I still blame myself for this recent one happening. Advice is to anticipate their behavior if you know it can happen, do your best to prevent it, and also expect the unexpected. We are after-all just human and make mistakes and sometimes "stuff" just happens.
Last year we had found a milkweed plant in our yard and 2 caterpillars Caen from it and became butterflies. This year we were prepared and used your outdoor set up. My question: we took in 13 monarch caterpillars. 5 died and 8 grew to maturity. Do we rate our success at100% of the 8 that developed from caterpillars to butterflies or roughly 65% because 5 caterpillars died when they were 4 or 5 instar?
I ordered a mesh tent but my caterpillar went to the top of the container I had it in. I was about to research what to do it the top is smooth plastic when I saw it already clinging to the top. I hope it can hang there OK. Since it August I don't know if I can leave a plastic container in the sun without it getting way too hot. I only had the caterpillar for a few days before it seems ready to form its chrysalis. I am scared to remove it from the top when it dries to another location since it's my first time doing this.
Hi Rich, Which video has info on testing the adults for OE?
from Ohio, but now live in FLA. The milkweed in the north is nothing like in Florida. It may take eight to ten leaves here to equal whatyou have. Is it possible to "clean" a plant and put it in a larger cage? possibly spraying the solution on the MW. wait a minute the hose off. I have purchased cages from 2 foot to 4 foot. I have started some milkweed from seed and will end up using it in pots in the cages when big enough. Is there any place to look for ideas here in FLA?
I leave the Plastic on the Bottom and use the Paper Towels for easy Clean up!!!
And to myself and others, You can rotate the enclosure To allow them to J hang from Mesh!!!
I come back so often as others and Rich . Lund is the best!!!
I got curious about all kinds of things when you mentioned in another video that all the chrysalises pointed in the same direction. I wondered if an egg hatched, if you turned the leaf 180 degrees, could the Caterpillar still find the egg or would it assume the egg was now in front of it and search for the egg in the opposite direction? What if an artificial light followed the path of the sun, etc etc etc? What if they were raised in a greenhouse where the sun's movement and photoperiod all changed, and so on. There are sooo many variables you could test to see if magnetic fields, the sun's movement, etc had an effect. I'm curious to read this paper from your video.
Me, too! My outdoor 2” x 2” screen cages have revealed much to me in the subject of where, how, etc. cats face as chrysalides. Maybe more later!
When you say "rearing" is this referring to rearing caterpillars to the pre-chrysalis stage or does this include the entire cycle?
Or, in other words, can the chrysalis stage be brought indoors and kept in a well-lighted room?
Can the chrysalis be moved after formation and if so, do you have a video which addresses this?
Where can I put my mesh container? Do I need to put it under a shed or something to protect from rain? Im not sure I have anywhere that I can put it to protect it against rain. Or is it fine since they are in the rain in the wild? My container doesn't have the solid plastic top, it is all mesh
Where can i find the purple mesh that he put at the top of the enclosure? Thank you much
I do have pop up tents outside here in Southern California. We had a HORRIBLE heat wave this weekend so I brought them in (6 enclosures)... worried that the change in temperature from 109 to 78 could shock them. But once I brought them in I also saw that four of my chrysalides had some sunburn on them (at least I hope that’s all it is.). So, I am pretty sure bringing them in was the right thing because yesterday it was 122 out there. I had one that was about to eclose. she did come out yesterday with deformed wings. And couldn’t fly. I did end up euthanizing her but now I wish I would’ve let her be a lesson to a predator. I love your video about what to do with butterflies who can’t fly. thank you for all those options. I would not have the time to properly care for her and kind of agree that the unnatural life might not be fun. I don’t know but anyway… I did test her for OE and she didn’t have it. I want to put them back outside soon, when it’s only supposed to get up to about 90 which is what they’re pretty used to, but the smoke is really bad right now. the air quality is terrible. Should I leave them inside because of that?
I've been having trouble finding plastic baskets with holes on the sides and bottoms for my outdoor enclosures. Found a great prospect in a plastic, rectangular shaped colander but the only colors they come in are orange and blue. Does anyone have any idea if the colors of the baskets will distract the cats away from their milkweed? I'd hate to wind up with cats all over the baskets rather than consuming their meals!
Question: can baby caterpillars survive 37F ? I live in NW Arkansas and in a few days the weather forcast shows 37 for the low. I have eggs on my outside plants that will hatch probably tomorrow.
Where did you get your pop up tents?
So what happened to the captive butterflies? Did continue the life cycle and reproduce in captivity?
How long do u leave the leafs before changing for fresh.
Hola que riesgo tienen si planto la asclepia en una maceta y traigo huevos para que allí se desarrollen tapadas con tul de manera que no enteren depredadores ?
I have a butterfly who eclsed but is not able to fly. I keep him in the cage with flowers sprayed with water. He tries to climb up the side of the mesh cage but falls. Any suggestions on how I should tend to him?
Hi everybody, I got a 50 gallons aquarium , I’m wondering if I could use it to raise Monarchs as it will be in a huge garden house where there will be a lot of ventilation and even areas where the monarchs will be able to fly away when they are ready to go. Please leave me your feed back on this one, I’m so looking forward to doing this
Thanks for another helpful video. One of my 4 chrysalids fell to the floor as I was clipping it to the horizontal string I was putting them on. Unfortunately the black 'nub' with silk broke off. There's a tiny hole there now with a bit of clear liquid visible just inside. Do you think it will survive? I super glued a piece of string near the top of the chrysalis so it is hanging with the others.Crossing my fingers that it's ok.
Ann Bennett A better option for hanging them is to use a piece of clear tape. Stick it to the silk that holds up the chrysalis, and then peel back the tape. It should pull the silk and chrysalis down with it. Then fold the tape over on itself. Then you have a big piece of tape to work with and the chrysalis isn’t harmed at all.
If it's not turning strange colors, no news is good news. I am not really able to say whether it will or won't produce a healthy adult. Each situation can be different. Sorry that I can't offer more firm of an answer...
We have had two small ( 2instar) cats that have had some sort of small red spider or mite on them. We were able to remove, but the cats both died. A day or two later a small white cacoon appeared next to one of the bodies. Just wondering if you have ever come across this, or if you know what it could be? (Wisconsin)
Your videos are great, thanks
I have not seen this before. While not all, I've looked at many sources about Monarch parasites and things of that sort, and haven't seen this brought up. Not saying it isn't one, just not one I've heard of, and so likely, not a common issue. Sorry that this happened...