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Raising Monarchs - Preventing NPV & Other Infections (Help The Monarch Butterfly)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ส.ค. 2024
- NPV - Nuclear Polyhedrosis Virus
Recently, I had an outbreak of, well, something. Not sure what. Some symptoms indicate NPV, but it could have been a bacterial infection. Either way, it took out eventually 31 of my Monarchs (25 at the time of filming this). That was almost a third of how many I had taken in up to that point. Never again...
Whether it was NPV or a bacterial infection, many have been asking for what to do about NPV (especially those who have a large amount of it in their region). Well, this video will explain to you what Nuclear Polyhedrosis Virus is, some quick facts about how it operates and spreads, what to do in the case of an outbreak, and finally, how to prevent it.
And here's some great news: The prevention method shown will treat your leaves and help prevent not only NPV, but also bacterial baddies, and OE parasite spores.
If you are new to this series, I highly recommend checking out the "core" of Raising Monarchs, Parts 1 - 5, which shows in detail, how I raise Monarchs from egg to adult, and how you can too with essentially zero cost using household items.
Raising Monarchs Instructional Video Series:
• Raising Monarchs Part ...
![น้าครับ..ผมรักน้า EP.04 - ปีกแดงเดอะซีรีส์2024[ฟินมาก] บทซีรีส์สร้างขึ้นเพื่อความบันเทิงเท่านั้น](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m9Q6MwoWgaQ/mqdefault.jpg)
When the caterpillar started having its little seizure ohhh my heart🥺🥺
Just finding these videos after having my first encounter with OE! Thank you for taking your time to share this information in such an easily digestible way.
Hi Mr. Lund, thank you for the tutorial. We have to step up our Monarch game here in Toronto. We've lost 7 caterpillars, unsure if it was NPV or not. Luckily we keep all our caterpillars in separate containers. We will be bleaching all feeding leaves from now on! In addition to egg bleaching. The good news is we have released over 50 healthy beautiful butterflies so far with about 40 to go.
Best,
Just two sisters trying to help out some butterflies :)
Great news from our neighbors to the north! Bleach treating the leaves is certainly more work (and a higher cost), so I commend you for taking it on, especially with numbers in the 90s and possibly higher, as the season isn't over yet!
limeshy I'm from Toronto too! I raise them also. I don't bleach but I rinse as the bleaching seems inconvenient, but I may give it a try.
I'm at around 50 or maybe 60 released, too. A disease outbreak came and so I may start bleaching, but as Mr.Lund says, it's not so easy with so many catterpillars.
hi from Guatemala, im starting a small monarch farm, raising monarchs series had been very handy, im always waiting for more knowledge
Hey, that's excellent! Glad to help!
Hello Javier, Do you still have the monarch farm here in Guatemala?
I raise them with only a bit of help from my mom. I'll be 16 in two weeks. This is our first year. We successfully raised and released one, and have a second healthy chrysalis. We got the luck to be there when the caterpillar started to transform, and got to watch the whole process.
Very cool how interested you are in helping your environment at a young age. You're an ambassador in a way. And usually, we end up enjoying it enough to spread the joy to others. I'm guessing you have friends who already want to know more about what you are doing. Great job!
Last year I had 8 milkweed plants and raised happy healthy butterflies at the end of season (it seems to me that tachinid flies aren’t as active in late summer). This year 30 plants grew and they were too close to each other. All plants cane down with “the yellows” and eventually died. Worse, all the caterpillars had NPV and died. This year I had milkweed bugs, milkweed beetles, milkweed weevils, earwigs and tussock moth caterpillars. What a mess. All these bugs hop/fly from plant to plant spreading anything the pick up. It was a very disappointing year. The monarch caterpillars would get nice and fat, eating tons of leaves. When they got to instar 4 or 5 they would all climb to the top of the plant, attach themselves to a leaf and hang in a straight line and die. Next year I need to mow down at least half of the milkweed so it isn’t touching other milkweeds, leaving air between them. I need to find which sprinklers in my system hit my milkweed and turn them off. I need to kill all tussock moths since they strip plants overnight and are not the least bit. endangered.
What a disappointment this year has been. When I first started out it sounded so simple. “Plant milkweed!” all the online sites said. It’s a LOT more complicated than that. My plants die to the ground in winter, so I hope the NPV does, too.
Thinning the milkweed as you mention may solve some of this, but in the end, if they are still out in nature, even back yard nature, they will be subject to the whims of nature. Still, cool to know that tachinid flies aren't as active near the end of the season from your experience. Some experience the hardships similar to yours and decide to take the eggs/caterpillars into controlled environments. I know that not everyone has the time for that, but there may be a tipping point when the work of keeping up the milkweed is more than the work of taking some in and rearing them.
I definitely hope you have a better season next year if you continue. Thank you for sure for planting the milkweed. It truly is the number one way to help them!
Just a quick update from Utah... I've released 17 Monarch's so far and have another 10 in different stages. I'm also starting a mini campaign to give out Milkweed seeds. I ordered 100 packets of Common Milkweed from SaveOurMonarchs, but like a dope these seeds are not native to Utah so I have all of these packets. If you would like them to give out to people please let me know and I will gladly ship them your way free of charge. I've since ordered the correct type of seeds for Utah which is Showy Milkweed. I've already had 20 people request them which is pretty exciting!
That sounds like some great success! I'm glad to hear it. The season's winding down, but not done yet. I have about 30 more going through my process. (One passed yesterday, having molting complications, it would seem.)
I'm all set on seeds, though. If you use Facebook, I've heard of multiple Monarch groups that have seed sharing programs. Perhaps look into that if you need a home for them.
That is so nice of you :)
Is it syriaca? I'd love to grow one of those. I am in idaho and have ready access to tons of speciosa, which, I am sure you have plenty of by now, so you probably don't want to trade for those, but I do have a few other flower seeds that are native to my area and probably native around salt lake as well that I would be happy to send.
Very informative! What a simple solution to prevent NPV! I just started raising monarchs and your videos have been tremendously helpful so thank you!
Ha ha, I get it..."simple *solution*"! Ha!
Truly, though, how good of a solution it is depends upon the results. I'm pleased to have been told, though, some who have had major problems with NPV and OE parasites who started treating their leaves this way have had very significant success! So, that's got a smile on my face, for sure!
I just tested for OE for the first time! It was quite fascinating. Yesterday I purchased a portable WiFi digital microscope. It has 1920 x 1080p with 1000x.
It got here this evening so, I just did the tape thing with my 5 day old butterflies and they were evidently clean. No spores! Now if it would stop raining I would release them, but for now they have to be patient and feed of their organic banana/orange juice mush and flap around my apartment! I also have an outdoor butterfly room they can fly around in as long as the weather is good. I usually release around 300-500 a year but now I can be more careful to just release healthy ones. Thank you for your tutorial, I will share to other monarch lovers!
Indeed, the testing can be rather easy to do with the right equipment. For a long time, I was using a heavy duty microscope, but have had success with a handheld portable one! It's cool that these have become much more available and affordable in the last ten years! th-cam.com/video/32IqyxjOUfM/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for being so active in helping the Monarchs!
This is great info. Now I can be prepared. Thank you for posting!
Great video. FYI - I was told this will loosen the cement that holds diamonds in rings.
Thank you so much! I had an outbreak of the virus. Luckily, I cleaned everything and seperated them all once I found that one had died from it before seeing the video. Unfortunately, I did have a few more die from this. The odd thing is.. The first one with NPV had just begun to make a chrysalis, but only made it about a third of the way before dying and leaquing the black goo-like liquids onto some leaves. I removed any leaves with it on it and cleaned the all plants completely as well as container.
This is definitely the experience that showed me the importance of bleach treating the eggs and leaves. Provided things are kept sanitary, this is rare, but bleach treating can eliminate even the rarity of it. Can't say it's 100%, of course, but I've never had an outbreak of anything since.
Thank you so very much for sharing this information! This past week I dealt with NPV or something else nasty that was killing my caterpillars. I lost about 8. I was going to send you a request for dealing with NPV or outbreaks, and this popped into my inbox before I could!
One site also recommended cutting back the plant that I had found them on (they all came from the same one in my garden which was one I had gotten from a nursery last year), and then spraying down the area with a hydrogen peroxide and water solution. Since sanitizing everything and cutting back those plants, so far so good!
Thanks again!
Thanks for your help, I started this year, it brakes my heart when they don't make it, it's really sad
My daughter saw ur videos and wanted to raise monarchs! She is 11! We found 2 eggs they both hatched, grew and chysalized but when they emerged one had crumpled wings! The chrysalis was leaking alottle when it pupated also! We let the one go but we euthanized the second one😭 it was very sad especially her forst time doing it! That was on July 18th we released the one! She didn't want to do it again but 2 days ago she came in with a leaf that had an egg and wants to raise another!!!! It is remarkable watching them grow and change! Thanks for ur videos and the influence u have on chdren to do good!!!!
Hi, this is a wonderful story for both of you young ladies and hoping that she never loses the fascination with nature. I had no idea about our native milkweed nor how the chrysalides even opened to behold the incredible adult Monarch Butterfly until a few years ago, in my 60’s which is when I came across some hurting cats and discovered this guy, Mr. Lund Science, Rich Lund, saved make and refer back here every season at least a few times! Btw newly eclosed adult butterflies usually need several hours alone to hang, dry their wings, and of course the first hour is when the magic happens and they use their wings to pump fluid into their wings creating an amazing wing span compared to what they eclosed with! They do it all on their own. I never tire of seeing this happen. If y’all have questions try one of his Q and A videos maybe where he is more likely to check in on what we all are doing out here! Best regards and blessings, stay well.
Great tutorial. I have been raising monarchs since I was a kid, then continued with my children. The oldest (30'ish) has been doing the same her whole life. I never seen her eyes light up more with joy than when she's found her first caterpillar. I grew up in MI and she currently still lives there. We never experienced ANY kinds of problems like that but since she found 18 yesterday and 15 more today including eggs it may come in handy. TFS
All seriousness...it took me five full minutes to figure out what "TFS" meant. I finally stumbled upon the idea in my head that it means "Thanks For Sharing". I hope I'm correct.
Options I rejected: "Take Firemen Seriously", "That's For Sissies", and "That's Forgetting Something". Odd how the brain works, eh?
While it wasn't my experience with what's shown in the video, from having posted it, when it's not NPV, most who have commented have explained to me that pesticide sprays have sometimes been the culprit. Usually, everything's going fine, but then they get some milkweed leaves for food from a park source or other community location, and then...death. Just adds another layer to the task that if we are trying to find food for the young tykes, it's important to check and see what community spraying schedules are like. In addition, bleach treating the leaves as shown in this video is a good way to avoid the problem for the most part. However, some have said, and I don't doubt it, that some pesticides/herbicides can be absorbed into the leaves, and with those, even bleach treating and rinsing won't do a thing to make them non-fatal food for the caterpillars. It's definitely a tough world out there for the Monarchs.
And another note, Chrysalides can also show NPV. Sometimes the cat can actually make the chrysalis and look fine. But the chrysalis can turned black and liquify.
Yes, I had that happen some years ago. It was a bummer. If memory serves me correctly, too, even the silk it hung from seemed to become weaker. Flimsier.
I have those water picks that you get when you buy cut flowers - they help keep the leaves fresh and there is minimal leakage. I went to a local flower shop and the associate just gave me a handful. I cut up the stalk so there is more of the milkweed stem in the tube and lay them or prop them in y container so I don't have to worry about the ends drying out. Works for me !!!! BTW love your videos .... they have been a great help.
Yep. That's a great innovation too. I haven't gone with that, as the paper towel has worked for me, but it's been long enough that probably purchasing such water picks once would be more cost effective than going through the paper towel over the years. Something I might look into. Good tip!
I use the natural way and this year I had more monarchs, I m still learning, and take care other animals in need.
Obviously, you're a professional because you did this wearing a perfectly black t-shirt (and awesome t-shirt, BTW)!
A very well done video, your efforts to help maintain the Monarch population is a very noble act.
Thanks!
PS: I don't know why your name is "Kaptain Gray the Invader" but that's awesome!
MrLundScience It's a video game thing. I been seriously thinking of changing it for awhile now. Keep up the good work!
Great video!!! May I say this will indeed help others. I did also want to say that the caterpillars you showed in the video , well to me did not look like NPV. Like you said it could be something else. This was very informative , and you definitely did your research. One thing I've had a lot of luck on is instead of putting the leaves in the paper towel and putting them in the fridge, I put my leaves(with just the stem) in a glass of water. I have had leaves stay up to a week or more for me this way. Just wanted to give you some ideas! I try to share these videos as much as I can. Just wish more people would see them:(. (Including your other vids)
Word. I've heard of others doing what you do with placing them in water. Certainly an option. I do it this way mostly so that the leaf is ready to go right into the container when I need to feed them. I prefer to wrap a bunch with the paper towel at once rather than one at a time when I need them. I stay with the paper towel on the tip mostly to give the leaf more life when they are not able to eat the whole thing in one day. Admittedly, I probably don't need to do this for 4th and 5th instars that go through the leaves before they'd dry out anyway, but, I never know which container is getting what leaf, so I just wrap them all.
New at this ...thsnk you for thid info 😍😍 bought a few milkweed plants and a monarch quickly found them and put 3 eggs ..that hatched snd were eaten by turkeys ...so i move the plants to a safer place and have at least 10 babies growing now
Mr. Rogers told me to look for the helpers...the butterfly helpers.:)
Rogers was pretty sweet to learn from when I was growing up. An early celebrator of individuality.
Hi from New Zealand Rich your videos are great thanks for your help - i have a couple of hints that may help, first is to use thin strips of cut up stocking when reattaching fallen chrysalis the cremaster catches on to stocking way better than dental floss, also when my monarchs eclose they usually climb upwards after their wings hang, before flight, i think they need strength in their legs too so the bulldog clips would be too big and too smooth for the newborn butterfly to climb up if they need to. I am extremely grateful for your advice and help Rich thanks again from NZ, Bron
After all of my struggles this past Spring with a 50% loss of cats I will be bleaching everything from this point forward. I have six cats that just hatched 3 of which I bleached the eggs 3 I didn't . They are separated. Of the 3 I didn't bleach one is definitely ill and the other two have funny color to them. The 3 bleached ones are eating away and look completely normal. I will be buying more bleach today as I see Monarchs out in the flower gardens now.
I wanted to make this comment my "favorite" because I think it shows an excellent use of testing out the claim. While yes, there were casualties from the experiment, still, this can be so beneficial to others who deal with the same issues often, and might help them decide if bleach treating is right for them. Thank you Carol!
Sad! You just made me get out of bed at 4am to check on my caterpillars. They're fine. 😎
In all fairness, though, doesn't that mean by default, you were awake in bed, watching my videos at 4am?f
If that's the case, you asked for it.😎
Nice to see you again. Mr. Rollins. You are my first and favorite monarch teacher. Thanks for being Nerdy By Nature. Oh yeah...Wu Tang for life!
Yep. Still here. Nice to see you are too!
You should do a segment on pets w topical flea medications. My first year of raising I couldn’t figure out what I was doing wrong. All of them failed to pupate. Once I started wearing rubber gloves every time I handled them and their leaves I rarely lost one. It stays on our skin even after washing our hands.
I've had picked milkweed last 1.5-2 weeks in the fridge. I usually bundle them 6-7 leafs to a paper towel, but the paper towel is very saturated
I had a TERRIBLE outcome once when trying to get OE off the leaves one year. Despite all of the extra care I took it seemed that a disturbing number of the caterpillars I was trying to CARE for ended up POISONED 😭
What I would give to have Milkweed as large as yours! Mine in CA are so small 🤦♀️
You can feed so many with that size of leaves! I refrigerate My Milkweed after a very through rinse! My biggest problem is the Tanchid Fly here. Not NPV or OE as long as I keep My plants cut back. We have so many Monarch's here that your Milkweed doesn't last long in the open. I found some great covers to keep the Monarch's from laying eggs on the Milkweed I need to feed the One's I'm raising. I only bring in eggs.
You are helping so many of Us to raise Them Right ✅️ !! Thanks for these videos. I recommend them to many people.
I store my leaves in zip-lok baggies Mr. Lund and I even cut them up if they are larger than the baggie and I personally seal the baggies up, as the leaves last longer.
Hi. Thanks so much for your videos. We followed them last year and successfully raised and released over 250 butterflies from eggs to butterflies. Last year we had milkweed plants in pots that we brought inside our covered lanai after eggs were laid on them and raised them to adults and released. Of the 250 we barely lost any, just a few.
This year we decided to plant a butterfly garden with milkweed in the ground and we have been collecting caterpillars instead of eggs. Everything was going fine and all looked well. It’s been this way for almost a month. However today we went out in the garden and we have lots of caterpillars all over that seem to be bending backwards/curling backwards and dying, but they are not turning black. A few have liquid leakage though but not all. Not black. Perhaps some sort of bacterial or viral infection. However we are not sure what to do? Cut back ALL of our plants? Remove all of our plants? We have 20 of them outside. Do we need to collect all caterpillars we see and euthanize all of them. It seems like something is spreading. Will it eventually correct itself of be an ongoing issue? Thanks.
Curious what you ended up doing?
I think I would spray all the plants with that solution then spray a couple of times with clean water. Cut all the way back in the fall.
Hi, from a previous video they mentioned that when butterflies eat from the milkweed they leave behind some kind of toxic residue which is deadly to caterpillars. Also learned milkweed is poisonous to other insects, so makes sense.
Greetings from Freeville, NY! I have been putting Milkweed leaves in the fridge as well. I like your process much better of putting instars in separate containers. I have been been doing this to a point and when they are big enough, they go into my mesh cage. I line the bottom of the cage with pieces of newsprint paper that I bought at Lowe’s. Everyday it gets changed out for a new sheet cut to size. This is cheaper than paper towels. I do appreciate your advise on cleanliness and I wipe my tools and table with an antibacterial wipe every time. It’s important that everyone washes their hands before and after they handle their butterflies. Human hands are a cess pool of germs and viruses that butterflies don’t usually get exposed to and you don’t want to transfer disease unwittingly. The bleach solution isn’t something I would do every day. Just a thought.
Agreed. Not so much an every day thing. But sanitation is highly advised, just like you mention. Here's the video I did on sanitation techniques that I currently use: th-cam.com/video/6z9Yt5k_-vI/w-d-xo.html
I once had a giant milkweed that every cat died so i chopped it down. it was so sad. I havent had anymore outbreaks in my garden so far.
Mr Lund- I can’t thank you enough for all your help. Do you know if the diseases continue to thrive without a host? How long can the NPV and OE live on a surface?
I just got done bleaching 13 eggs and am now moving on to leaves. I’ve had a massive breakout of NPV and OE here in S E Florida. 40 milkweed plants cut down the past few days. The few monarchs that are around are carriers, I think. I can do what I can but there is always a neighbor or two that does nothing, so this egg and leaf sterilizing is perfect.
Then I’m sterilizing my patio and screens. I had caterpillars that were sick walking all over the screens to go make their chrysalis.
How am I supposed to have bleach solution sit on a vertical screen for one min? Maybe a wet towel will stay up there. I’ll try.
I hope I did everything right. My hands are spotless!
My caterpillar is sluggish with droopy antennae, though it is able to move. I raised many healthy caterpillars and regularly wash and mesh my feeding plants, so I'm hoping it is not this virus that is hurting my little one.
I read once about someone who had gotten milkweed which had been treated with a systemic pesticide and she described it like yours, that the caterpillars appeared to be writhing in pain before they ultimately died 😢 I read where you said you had gotten the milkweed and I hope it was just an isolated incident and not something that happens again.
I liked that source of milkweed because it was pretty dense with plants. I try to only take two leaves from a plant at a time, so as not to overly harm the plant. I could really have done that from this patch for the entire summer. Since this incident, I've ceased going to that area. I have other sources that are out in the "wild" enough to where I doubt herbicides and pesticides are being used.
Omg these cattipidlers are consuming my life. I used to just let them do their thing in the yard. But i cut down some bushes this year so now there isn't enough food for my usual amount. ( It's amazing that butterflies know not only where my house is but how much milkweed i have usually. I've had to bring babies and eggs in the house and i got milkweed blindness last week. This is very time consuming.
Hi Mr. Lund, I recently had 2 cats. Die of NPV, I used your videos to help me raise my 10 cats, Thanks!
Sorry to hear that you had NPV occur. It's a shame when it does. But, congrats on your other 10!
@@MrLundScience Thanks!
Good luck with your caterpillars
Where do you get those giant leaves. I've never seen anything like it. I've got tiny leaves with multiple eggs on them.
Hi. I’m raising monarchs here in south FL. All was going so well until the last 20. They all stopped eating and died. Any of the chrysalis had deformed monarchs that died within the first hour. I guess I have a large breakout. My neighbor has the same problem. Seems it started with a certain butterfly bush.
Do I have to do this procedure to all my milkweed? I’ll break from raising the butterflies until I have this under control. I have a few chrysalis that look pretty bad but we shall see.
I’ve been searching for an answer for two weeks. Just found you. Thank You so much
Thank you! This sounds like what some of mine had last year and was just a few containers. I did the bleach dips with all the leaves I fed the cats from the eggs I was able to get in captivity and 100% made it to Butterflies! 54. the other 11 I put on a plant on our porch all disappeared. Though I did rear some in the same place early spring that did great I will only rear them in side now. Thanks for all your help! Nothing like the feeling of rearing so many. They all came out of their Chrysalis with in 3 days of each other!
Also I had one Chrysalis that set its self up on the bottom of a
aquarium and I remembered your video as it had no silk I wadded up a
paper towel in a plastic cup then laid another over it with the sides
coming up to the top, laid the chrysalis on top the paper towel with a lid on top the cup. The Chrysalis even had a flat area from
the floor of the aquarium but it come out just fine climbed up the side
just like in your video and did great!
Great to hear that was successful! I always fret about the occasional chrysalis that has a flat side. I've come home to find that that has happened, I think twice. Both times, I did my glue hanging trick, but that was back when I thought they needed to be hung that way because the direction of gravity had something to do with it. Leaving them on their side, apparently, is fine for development. The flat part would worry me, though, as it is possible if the chrysalis is deformed enough, that development of the adult body can go slightly (or a lot) wrong. Good to hear yours didn't have any such problems!
I laid the normal shape down and flat part up when if hatched its one lower wing was misshaped as it filled with liquid was just about nomral just one edge a little off but as it completely dried she was able to fly with out any problem. The Chrysalis was completely dry before I moved it. My glue had hardened and could not get it out so I wasnt able to hang this one but I remembered your video and it worked great!
Sweet! Glad to hear it!
***Mr. Lund,
I used Wondercide lawn & garden to repel mosquitoes and kill ticks- but I think there's a SERIOUS PROBLEM ! There have only been FOUR Monarch caterpillars in our 2+ acre yard this summer! I tried emailing the company, but they don't answer MY question; Does Wondercide hurt eggs or caterpillars? The first two caterpillars died before 2nd instar, almost like they starved. Then I found a larger caterpillar, it made it to release🎉 Today I came across a 1st-2nd instar 😲 I had all but given up!!!
Do YOU have any option as to whether or not Wondercide directly harms Monarch eggs or is taken up by the milkweed and gets eaten, harming them through ingestion???
Hello Mr. Lund.. I'm on my second round of monarchness. I was watching my caterpillar chomping away when i notice another wiggling in the dirt. I quickly made a separate area thinking maybe not enough food source. I put him in the new container filled with milkweed plants and put him on one. He fell off and it looked like he was burying himself. There was some green fluid on the container when i transferred him.
Nowadays, if I see the green fluid, which is often regurgitation, it's a sign of stress, therefore, could be a sign of infection, and that one gets quarantined immediately. Also, toss the leaves he could have been in contact with (which would be all) and fully sanitize. That's the only way to try and prevent it spreading to others. Good luck with him!
Hi there from California! Thank you so much for your video series. I’m completely new to this, and unfortunately, every single monarch I’ve tried to raise has died. I only have one left right now and he just threw up 😞 It’s already pretty late in the year, so I guess I’ll have to try again next year. I stumbled across this video after my eggs had already hatched, so I didn’t know about the bleaching technique. Thank you again and take care!
Have you changed your set ups in the last few years? Like the containers you are raising them in? Could you do an updated version of the rearing containers if so? Always looking for other set up options! Thank you for doing these videos! You have been an overwhelming help in learning and caring for these precious creatures!
Cool and understandable questions. Nobody has really asked me that before. It makes sense to, as it's been years into it!
As cool as the question is, though, the answer is kinda boring! Not much has changed. I'm even using the same containers as shown in the videos from all those years ago. The videos were posted in 2014 showing them, but I had already been using them prior to that too. They stay in good shape if they are well taken care of.
Here's what has changed, though:
1) I now do test for OE on *every* adult I release, with the exception of taking two to let my nephew who was visiting get to see. They were in chrysalis, and so I took them to my parents' where my nephew had come into town, let them emerge there, and let him release them. So, those are the only two that I haven't tested since last year, and learning how to test for OE. There's a video on how to test for OE parasites I made to show this new update.
2) When a chrysalis forms, I no longer write down the date it went into chrysalis, and then put a little note card that marks it in the hanging clasp. It was neat to do for a while and get the data (most emerge within 10 or 11 days, and some towards the end of the season when it becomes cooler take 12, 13, or 14 days), but it was a tedious part. Once getting to see that data, and having it, I didn't feel the need to keep doing it. It was just another step that takes time, and when you're dealing with them everyday, and you're raising in the hundreds, the time cost versus the benefit diminished the more data I already had. So, in videos, we don't see me having the dates tagged with the chrysalis when they're hanging any longer.
3) To prevent NPV, bacterial infections, pesticides, and OE spores, I now bleach treat all eggs and all leaves. I have a video on preventing OE that shows how I bleach treat the eggs, and now a recent video on how to prevent NPV, which shows bleach treating the leaves as well.
4) Now that I test for OE, I get a note card that has the scales on it from every Monarch I release. I write the sex, the date it emerged, and, of course, if it had OE or not. Because i have now a card for each Monarch released with the sex and date on it, I don't write these things down in a notebook like I used to. Instead, the cards serve as my yearly data. I write down in my journal any time I take in new Monarchs, which are mostly eggs, but I'll write down if I find and take in caterpillars from the field too. This gives me a running tally of how many Monarch lives I've been responsible for that year, and then at the end of the season, I can count up the number of note cards I have, and compare that to the number of lives taken in. This is used to calculate my success rate. I used to do this with just writing it all down in a big hand made table in a note book, but I find this method to be just as good, and since I'm making the note cards to test for OE, I'll probably stick with this. (But, that might be a boring video to show, as far as me, sitting with a journal and a calculator, counting note cards!)
That's about it. Beyond that, not much else has changed.
Wow, thanks for taking the time to type all of that out! I appreciate the explanation. I have watched all your video's (several times actually) and appreciate every one that you've done! I've even watched the ones about your snake too. Those are pretty awesome to watch as well.... keep up the great work and Thanks again!!!
You're absolutely welcome. (Aren't Dot and No Dot the cutest?!?!?)
MrLundScience eres increíble y muy admirable saludos!!
Sorry to 𝗯𝘂𝗴 ya, but I have a few 𝗥𝗶𝗱𝗶𝗰𝘂𝗹𝗼𝘂𝘀 𝗾𝘂𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝘀🤓
(In my 1st ever monarch habitat, I'm using potted milkweed plants instead of single leaves. Is this not a recommended way to raise the caterpillars?)
𝗤𝘂𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻, if I suspect NPV, could I dip the entire plant... Maybe mist the dirt & wipe down the pot?
I'm Florida, using native Florida milkweed & the milkweed leaves definitely look a lot smaller & more delicate than yours on the video.
Greetings Melody! Bleach treating an entire plant is something that I have never done, but am aware that others have and currently do. So, the best I can really say is that I know that there's ways to do it successfully, but I don't have any experience myself with those ways. If I were trying to do it, I know my major areas of focus would be trying to find a way to submerse the plant without dumping all of the dirt out, and that would be a MAJOR area of focus for me because I don't trust myself with a potted plant. Ha! I'd have concerns about some of the bleach solution entering the soil, because that's going to be possibly fatal to the plant if enough bleach gets to the roots. Once I figure out how I'd prevent that, I'd next want to really really make sure I had a way to rinse every part of the plant, and be able to do that multiple times. Bleach treating individual leaves doesn't give many nooks and crannies for bleach to "hide" and not be rinsed away as easily. But, if one can solve these problems, I think that it could be successful. It's just out of my area of experience. I hope that helps in some way!
My baby caterpillar isnt eating a whole bunch. Should baby caterpillars usually do that, or does it have OE?
It's tough to gauge what a "whole bunch" is. If a caterpillar truly is eating less than it should be, that can sometimes indicate an infection, but it could be OE, NPV, a bacterial infection, or many other things. I'd give it time. Sometimes, they eat less than we think they should.
Alright. Thanks!
Thanks so much for all your Great information about how to raise Monarch butterflies. I love them and live about 30 miles east of Houston. My question is a two or three part question. My Asclepias Milkweed is sick and I cannot seem to get it well. It was healthy when I got it but I have had it for about a month and the leaves are getting black spots underneath and yellow and light colored spots on the top. I read many articles on this and it seems it must have been overwatered so I cut back on watering and sprayed the leaves with a 3% peroxide solution that was mixed at 2 tablespoons of peroxide with a pint of water and this seemed to work great and the plant looked much better and I took a lot of those damaged leaves off. The only problem is that it keeps coming back and now there are some dark colored bugs on it and it looks like some fuzz around these bugs, that I thought was aphids at first. My first question is
Is it safe to feed Monarch caterpillars leaves that have been sprayed with this peroxide solution??
My second question is Do you think the leaves that have not been sprayed that look like they are good, are ok for caterpillars??
My third question is Do you think the whole plant infected?
We live in a very humid, sticky climate here in the south and so hard to try to raise this milkweed every year. It also attracts bees, wasps, yellow jackets and all kind of predator bugs, so I am really worried about releasing butterflies in this area, and thats why I bought the milkweed in the first place.
I think probably the best thing would be to just go and buy some more milkweed plants and put them in a different area from the other ones. Sorry for such a long comment and Thanks so much for any advice you can give me on this
Rich, can you try something for me, us. Instead of individual leaves. Try blending a bunch together, making a pile of it instead of leaves themselves. Seems neat to try
I'm not all the way with you on this yet...what do you mean by "blending a bunch together"? Do you mean, like, in a blender? Are you saying to do this as some alternative way to bleaching them? I'm not sure what you mean. Please explain further.
MrLundScience oh lord, I'm sorry, just for feeding them. My bad. I thought of the idea when you were talking about the size of the leaves. doh!
Are you then saying, use a blender? With the laytex that is secreted from the leaves, that could, long term, possibly cause the blender some problems. Even so, what might be the proposed advantage to this?
Took original post down because I was wary having my email out there for all to see. 😂 No worries. I totally understand. Wasn’t sure if there was a way to get ahold of you, or not. I don’t really use twitter and sometimes Instagram. I’ll see if I can upload to Instagram and then send the link. Had some weird little parasites and trying to figure out what they are. Thanks!
I set up a Twitter. 😳 I’m pretty computer savvy but I may need a learning curve on this one. 😂 I feel so old! I hate to have to ask my kid how to Twitter. 🤣 Or is it how to tweet? Oh my!
I'll check my Twitter a bit more often. See what you've got.
Hi mrlund i'm raising a similar related specie named plain tiger Danaus Chrysippus and they feed on the same plant type milkweed and i've seen it's parasites parasitic wasps and tachinid flies and some of mine died for no reason do you think its because of the pesticides?.
Greetings Joseph,
I have to admit, without knowing all of the details of the situation, it's tough for me to give you any real answer that wouldn't just be blind guessing. I have no experience with Danaus chrysippus. However, I can say, if there were pesticides on the plants that your caterpillars were feeding from, it's a very high likelihood that this would be what took them out. Pesticides are chemically engineered to be efficient insect killers, and they don't tend to distinguish between insects we like, and insects we don't. One person's insect "pet" would be another person's despised "pest".
Still, I'm sorry to hear that this happened with your caterpillars. Pretty cool that you're into raising some butterflies and hopefully enjoying that learning experience!
It’s interesting to listen to your advice now that we ALL are dealing with a virus (although different from the monarch caterpillars). To ‘assume everyone’s got the virus and quarantine to get rid of the spread’ . Lol - you got me laughing. My caterpillars and I will heed the warning! 😄
;-)
😱😭 That is so very sad. I bet your heart sank when you saw that.
I made a 5 gallon bucket of the 5% bleach solution and wash all the common milkweed branches i cut
I am wondering if you can use hydrogen peroxide and vinegar instead of bleach. My 12 yo daughter has been raising them a few years in a row now, but never had the problem before and I'd rather she didn't use bleach. This year we had caterpillars dying for no apparent reason and some of the chrysalides were invaded by other insect species so we were looking for help and found your videos. She is raising close to 100 this year, last year probably 60.
The short answer - no.
Hydrogen peroxide can kill bacteria very effectively, but mostly due to the oxygen gas produced by it in decomposition. In other words, when the hydrogen peroxide molecule chemically breaks down, it becomes water and oxygen gas. Placing hydrogen peroxide on a cut causes bubbling, and those bubbles are the oxygen gas released by this reaction. (Your blood has components that act as a catalyst in this reaction, making the reaction happen fast rather than slowly, thus, it vigorously bubbles when placed in contact with blood.) While there's 20% oxygen (roughly) in our atmosphere, an environment of almost pure oxygen (the bubbles) is quite lethal to most bacteria.
However, NPV is not a bacteria. It's a virus. Much harder to "kill", or, in terms of a virus, they are less chemically altered by oxygen gas. Likewise, vinegar won't be doing much to a virus either. However, bleach, specifically the hypochlorite ion that is in bleach, that is *very* effective at reacting with many things, including many virus molecules, and including NPV.
I hope this helps clear it up a bit.
Hi, really appreciate all of your experience and knowledge that you share here. A newbie looking out for pollinators and monarchs outside Detroit. First generation milkweed attracted a momma and watched her lay three eggs, left them in the wild and they were snatched up by ants. Then stepped, in with your guidance, to rear the 2 others that hatched a week earlier. Q: Do you have any experience with an incomplete molt/a cuticle band, or tight silk band, around a cat? It seems to be thriving, but can see this tight band around it. Cat is climbing, maybe trying to molt now, (the other one did last night). It climbed last night, but no change this morning.
Glad that you found these helpful, my fellow Michigander!
I haven't seen what you're describing. Without a photo, I can't picture if it's something I myself would attempt to remove (and thus, put the caterpillar at risk of any mistake I make in the process) or just see if the next molt takes care of the problem. These are the tough decisions that sometimes comes with this hobby, and there isn't always a correct answer. Does it look like something that could be removed if you had the proper tools? If yes, do you have the proper tools, or could you get them? If so, how much risk would the caterpillar be in if you try to remove it? We have to weigh such questions occasionally and make a judgement. Nature is beautiful, but nature is also cruel...if it didn't look like an easy removal, I know I'm more likely the type to see if nature running its course will take care of the problem, and if not, then nature has made the decision for me.
I hope that helps!
Thank you for this. It's just how my mind has been working through the situation. Tried to pull at the band this a.m. and came to my senses. It's like getting a ring stuck on your finger, and the rescuer using binoculars and a jackhammer to remove it. Cat is slowly starting to molt now. Things are as they are, and will be is such, accepting that. Since it is something you haven't experienced, I will keep you and others posted. Side note, a real gem of hope in an unlikely urban setting, the Detroit River walk has a nature preserve habitat area with an abundance of milkweed, native wildflowers, alive with honey bees, pollinators, and the beloved monarchs. Encouraging times.
here in Brazil im having problems with a parasite caused by a fly, and this process also kills the flies's eggs and prevent infection of the caterpillars raised from egg
Bleach solution instruction 7:55 Thank you so much!
Welcome!
Thanks for all your videos! Few questions:
1 So with OE the monarchs can survive and make it to a butterfly but for NPV they die for sure?
2 I’ve had 2 cats that had seizures and died but being a noob I didn’t separate them from the rest in the container. The cats from that same container survived to “butterflyhood”. Does this mean it wasn’t NPV?
3 9 of 9 that died all had T fly maggots. Could question 2 have neen T fly?
I am SO BUMMED, this morning I noticed a Monarch caterpillar about to pupate at the top of some milk weed in my garden in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. This is the first time I've seen a Monarch make it that far in my yard. Sadly, this caterpillar was also dead! I'm starting to feel like I am just incubating viruses and bacteria deadly to Monarchs because they NEVER survive.
I'm very sorry to hear that.
May I ask, are you bleach treating the eggs and leaves?
Have you seen the other video besides this one on how to bleach treat the eggs?
I didn't even know the Monarch was there until I saw it dead. I doubt that bleaching the eggs would've prevented this though because I imagine if the egg itself was contaminated it wouldn't have lived long enough to get that big, no?
When it comes to the most common Monarch infections, depending upon the region you live in, it's usually either NPV, OE, or some type of bacterial infection.
Bacterial infections will usually take out the Monarchs, if it's bad enough, before they make it to the pupa (chrysalis) stage.
NPV also will usually cause death before the caterpillar can pupate.
OE, though, is a parasite that really *needs* the Monarch to make it to the adult stage in order for the OE to be spread, and thus, continue its own parasitic life cycle. A Monarch becomes infected with OE by eating OE spores that are either on the egg from the mother, or, on the leaves that it consumes as a caterpillar, which could have been left there by the mother or by some other Monarch (or Queen) butterfly. If only a small does is consumed, then the infection doesn't kill the Monarch, but allows it to make it to the adult stage, and it can fly away seemingly very healthy. Larger doses, and the OE developing withing the Monarch causes deformities in the chrysalis, and the adult will emerge with disfigured wings and/or other impairments that prevent it from being able to fly. In even more severe cases, enough OE in the caterpillar's system can cause it to never make it to the adult stage, and the chrysalis might be formed, but only to "spoil" and an adult never emerges.
The best way to avoid having to deal with OE, NPV, and other infections is to bleach treat the eggs and to bleach treat the leaves. This video that we're commenting on shows how to bleach treat leaves. For bleach treating the eggs, it's a similar procedure, but the full video is here: th-cam.com/video/oZYzzcGiZRA/w-d-xo.html
It is definitely still a help to the overall species to have milkweed planted in your yard. For some, that's the level of commitment they can offer, and that's understandable. But, it needs to be understood that Monarchs that are developing on a plant that is in a yard is still out in "nature" and thus, is subjects to the perils of nature. It's a rough world for caterpillars, with many parasites, infections, and predators waiting for them. Eggs have between a 3% and 10% chance (depending upon the study) of making it to adulthood. So, if they are allowed to develop on a plant in a yard, we have to go into it knowing that best case scenario, statistically only 1 out of 10 eggs will make it to a healthy butterfly. If we want better results, it involves more work. And again, I know not everyone can provide this level of commitment, but it involves taking the eggs in, and raising them in controlled environments.
I'm in Michigan, where OE isn't that prevalent. Before deciding to bleach treat my eggs and leaves, I'd consistently get a success rate of somewhere around 85%. That's with controlled environments, and by that, I just mean my "to go" containers and plastic terrariums. So, just protecting them from predators, extreme weather, and making sure they all have enough food, 10% went to 85%. Now that I bleach treat eggs and leaves, I'm in the 90s as far a percentage of them making it to adults.
These are all things to consider. We don't want to take on more than we can handle, and I can't stress enough, even if someone chooses to just grow milkweed in their yard and let nature take its course, it's still, most definitely helping the species, for the loss of milkweed and the loss of options as to the laying of eggs seems to be what is causing the Monarch's decline. Planting milkweed is the *best* way to help the Monarchs long term.
Regardless of what you decide to do from here, know that you're still helping, no matter what level of commitment you feel you can provide, and I thank you for that!
If in the yard you have a NPV outbreak, besides euthanizing that cats, do I need to pull out all the milkweed. Is clipping them down enough? I had read hours of direct sun kills the virus. I’m in Florida so just wondering.
Great videos also thanks.
I don't have as much experience with what to do with situations like that in the yard, as my cats are taken into a controlled environment. So, I just want to make it clear that what follows isn't something I've tested out or know from experience, but is only what I would choose to do in your case. Since NPV is a virus, yes, likely amounts of direct sunlight can disrupt the virus due to the UV that it is exposed to. However, I know I wouldn't trust that the direct sunlight has taken care of *all* of the NPV. In fact, with the virus potentially being many, I would think there'd be a high probability that some would survive. To be on the safe side, I'd cut the plant just below the first leaf. As long as it is an adult milkweed plant, the root system will survive just fine, and new stalks would grow. It's the only way I'd feel like the NPV was safely taken care of. Good luck!
MORE comments (positive ones) about your videos that you make Mr. Lund on the monarchs!! My group LOVES what you do and if you EVER decide to join FB, even ONLY if it was my group, let me know. Apply and I'll approve you. Here's what they said.
Cindy Tony I
pretty much do everything his way. One of the first videos I watched on
monarch raising were from him. Excellent video series, and easy to
understand. Like I tell everyone, if he can use a Bowie song in one
video, he's alright in my book 😆.
Susan Fox Nice! I watched Mr. Lund's videos over and over when I first started raising Monarchs. Thanks for sharing his comments.
Cassie LeAnn Duell That
is super awesome!! I wish he had a facebook because I'd like him to see
what has come of his videos. I started doing this because of his
videos.
Cassie LeAnn Duell That's
what I needed when I began. I was unsure if I wanted to this on as a
hobby because I don't live on my own right now. Space is limited. I
thought it would be too difficult and in the way. His videos showed me
how easy it can be, and how not in the way it
Carleen Aguilar How wonderful. I'm fairly new in the group and have not seen his videos. Thank you, I will check it out. (Carleen just joined my group and someone had posted one of your youtube links on my group for Carleen's convenience. Mr. Lund, they are sucking up your instructional monarch videos like a plant to water!! GREAT JOB Mr. Lund and as you can see, my members are singing your praises! Keep up the GREAT work and know what you are doing is making a BIG difference!! ;-) :-)
It's a bit overwhelming. They are an awesome bunch. I can't make my "all caps" more "all caps" enough to express, I SO APPRECIATE HOW MUCH THEY ARE WILLING TO DO! Y'all rock.
I also like a lot what Cassie pointed out about the videos making it look like something you could do with little space, because that's really one of the goals as I made them. I thought that you're more likely to get more people into it if you make it as easy as possible, and as LOW COST as possible, so I've always tried to do that. I will never say that this is the "best" way to do it (or the cheapest either), but I try hard to make them with household items and low cost materials.
No matter what they say, though, I think that they are cooler than I. They've jumped so into it, by the sounds of it! And thank you, John, for running such a group. It really, really means a lot to me!
Thanks for the nice comments Mr. Lund and raising monarchs is my passion for several years now. You're welcome re: running group.
Hello, your symptoms is really similar to what have been happening to mine. The seizing, not turning black until completely dead. And mine are also not vomiting just profusely bleeding and they ultimately bleed to death. I haven't found anything online and I have raised hundreds of monarchs over my liftime and I have NEVER had this issue. I read some people say pesticides but I know mine aren't infected with pesticides as I live in thrre country and my milkweed comes from my field where the closest garden is over 100 feet away and it is mine so I know what's going into it. If you ever find out what it is please let me know. As stated before I have never seen it before.
That's really interesting. I wonder now who else might chime in...
I'll certainly make a video more about it if I ever do get further on figuring it out.
Maine Monarch HELP
Hi, third year wild rearing M.B.s, have never ever experienced this until this past week. So sad seeing every cat dying and after every single egg, leaf all were clean and contained exactly as I have done before using the very same bleach/h2O treatment on everything. All were gorgeous, hatched, tiny cats moving all over leaves. I always separate any one that is a “rogue” and have 7-10 2’ x 3’ net cages, so that is not an issue. All cages are also washed/rinsed exactly like you do. It sounds like what you described except like this other person mine did not have the green stuff only black when dead, so all ten except somehow there is one and she is in a new little cage, new Milkweed, I began to worry that our milkweed was somehow contaminated, but we are the kind of farm people that respect any spray for ticks and mosquitos, spraying ourselves far far away from our gardens, chickens, (they are free range and have a great chicken house from sunset til next day), and I change all clothes when I return to the house, and always always wash hands each time I handle them. Anyway cannot explain how one single is maybe surviving. Only idea I had was that if the mother monarchs pass this on to the eggs perhaps I brought in 9 that were infected, and one from another mother. Bummer but I know it can happen to the best of us. Thanks for all you do! Look forward to getting back into this mass insanity called social media!
My caterpillars devour the leaves before they ever reach that size. What kind of milkweed do you have?
The same here. What type of milkweed is that one?
What kind of milkweed do you use? The leaves are so large. Also I assume I could use this as a spray on the plant itself then spray with clean water also a couple of times.
Thanks for the NPV video. Finding eggs, but they're queen butterflies. Monarchs will probably show up here in Texas soon during migration. Not sure if it's NPV, but the cats get to about 2-3 instar and suddenly die:( I will try your solution and hope for the best.
I really wish you luck and hope that you report back how it goes! Man, I'd be so psyched to find a Queen egg! I've always wanted to accidentally find one Monarch caterpillar that just doesn't look like the others...and realize I had a Queen!
Mr. Lund, just wanted to thank you for all of your videos. So I lost 200 cats to the same thing you have shown in this video. Honestly had an outbreak, and by the time I separated them it was too late. I wanted to throw 3 things out at you. Alcohol, vs Bleach for sanitation.?.? How do you feel about boiling the leafs? I have done this the caterpillars do eat them, and still grow, I feel like they eat more of it. Would it be as effective as bleach? I figure they might eat more, but it will literally clean the entire leaf front and back, and be way easier as well as the fact the leaf doesnt have random stuff on there that they will avoid. What do you think?
Whatever this is, NPV, or bacteria, it infected my Cloudless Sulpher Caterpillars saldy, I am assuming I mixed up containers and yea, really made my day to see that. I also gave out a Gulf Fritillary to a classroom that had it. They did the right thing. Isolated it, the others were fine.
Boiling water temperatures can definitely kill bacteria. For viruses, it can disrupt those molecules as well. I don't know if I should say "kill" as there are valid arguments that viruses aren't alive, but let's ignore that for the time being and treat them as if they are alive. Boiling water can "kill" most viruses, but not always all of them, and not all types of viruses. As for OE spores, I am not sure whether the spores can survive those temperatures or not. I couldn't find anything on it, and from what I understand, they are some hardy spores. So, it's not a bad idea, and likely would provide results, but I can't say whether it would be as equally effective as a bleach solution. In the end, it's the results that would dictate whether it's equally useful. I go with the bleach solution due to it being effective across the board on all of these. It's possible someone could boil leaves instead and also never have an issue. It's just an unknown for me. The best way to test it, though, would be to do some things that I wouldn't see as ethical, such as intentionally taking a leaf that is known to have OE spores on it, or NPV, etc., boil that leaf and then intentionally feed it to some Monarch caterpillars. Hopefully it's obvious I wouldn't ever try this out. Just wouldn't have the heart to gain the information at the expense of the lil' guys. So, the next best thing would be to try out your idea with leaves of unknown status, and see how it goes. Might take a few years to gain confidence with the procedure being effective, but it's worth a shot if you don't wish to bleach treat. It's certainly a better option than not doing any type of treatment.
Anish Patel and what about hydrogen peroxide?
At my preschool, we have tried raising caterpillars this summer. I have found your videos very helful. After watching your NPV video, I noticed you stored your mixed bleach/water in a clear container. I was told that sunlight can break down the killing properties of bleach in 2 hours. That is why bleach is sold in opaque containers. I use a hydrogen peroxide cleaner (H2Orange2) on my classroom tables. I wonder if a hydrogen peroxide based product would work the same as bleach. Thank you for your informative videos.
You're absolutely right about the bleach container! It should be in something opaque. I went translucent because I know that I put this container under my bathroom sink in a cabinet where no sunlight will be getting to it any time soon. Good catch!
As for hydrogen peroxide, its disinfectant properties hinge on producing oxygen gas during decomposition (for the most part). That's how it kills bacteria in your cuts. When it hits blood, the hydrogen peroxide breaks down quickly to water and oxygen gas, and a high oxygen environment can quickly kill bacteria. As far as I know, though, for most viruses (such as NPV), oxygen won't be doing too much. I could be wrong though, or, there could be a different reaction that H2O2 does with viruses that I'm not aware of. So, for now, I'm sticking with the bleach solution.
Glad to hear that you've gotten your preschool involved with the conservation efforts!
@@MrLundScience WOW!!!! Maybe that's why I can't get rid of the NPV. I didn't know that bleach breaks down!!!! Da!!! I disinfect my trays in a strong solution with soap outside in a big plastic container. BUT leave it outside for days to keep adding trays to soak before rinsing. boy did I mess up! I lost 30 or more young and old cats trying to get them to pupate. go ahead and kick me......
Thank you. What kind of milkweed is that? I have 4 species and none of them have leaves anywhere near that size.
Even with bleaching I am losing cats rapidly :( I started out with 29 eggs but only 24 hatched. Now I am down to 10 cats and 3 of them are showing signs of illness. They are isolated now. I just found 20 more eggs this week and if the same things happen again I will be cutting down the milkweed in my yard for the year. The cats all are acting the same way seem to be healthy and them start vomiting green and die or they make it to J stage and then die. Had one actually form a chrysalis and then turn black. A very sad year here for Monarchs.
I feel for ya. I'm so sorry to hear now, and throughout the summer how rough it was for you. Some years, for me, have been rough too. It happens. Last year, such a bummer, I only found 30 in total. It can be hit or miss. I've heard this from others too. What I've *also* had people tell me are stories of having a rough year, but then suddenly, the next year, things went so much better. No guarantees in any of this, but there can be that hope. Whether it was successful or not, you still need to be commended for your efforts. It's not for naught. Thank you so much for doing what you could, and being so dedicated this year!
Can you reuse the bleach solution?
Thanks for the youtube videos. We are in central FL. Already into very active season. Collected and raised 18 caterpillars into adult stage, but when they emerged, they were hardly able to fly 12ft across the screened lanai to the top of the screen on the other side. They would stay there until they fell to the floor. We did release 3 and they seemed to fly away. After reading ALL your videos ,we discovered that the "green slime" they deposited was most likely a symptom of the NPV Local adviser didn't mention anything about the versus when I mentioned the "slime" to him. The "cats" ate almost all the leaves from 4 potted milkweed, they were very busy. What should I spray the new growth with so as not to infest any further "cats", if the new leaves are infested or any leaves that are left? It is now late April, do you think could we get more eggs? Thanks again for your HELP
Shasteens, The Villages,FL
Greetings Ray. I wouldn't use only the "green slime" to diagnose what happened. While NPV can cause that symptom, bacterial infection can cause it as well. I'm leaning more towards the idea that the infection my cats suffered in the making of this video was bacterial, but it was still a chance to discuss the topic of NPV, and show how to prevent for both NPV and "other infections". With NPV, a more trustworthy sign is that the cats will turn a darker, almost black color. (Is that what happened with yours?) As for what to spray your plants with, I don't know that I'd necessarily trust anything, and that's from a chemist standpoint! For my food sources, there's so many variables that we don't always know about, nor will sellers of plants always know of if they are dealing with a supplier, that really, I only trust natural sources, or sources I have grown on my own. If you are in Florida, while that's a pretty darn large state with varying areas, most have told me from that region that local sources of milkweed are not difficult to find. Still, if there isn't a nearby area you can collect from, I'd recommend growing some naturally occurring species of milkweed so that you have a supply for years to come. In the meantime, yes, you should be able to find many more eggs throughout the coming season. Wherever you do find them, that may be the place you wish to collect food leaves from. Just make sure to only collect a number of eggs that you have the resources for. I've sometimes had to leave eggs in nature due to knowing I might be pushing the limits of how many I can reasonably care for. I wouldn't want to remove any that I can't provide for, especially as my goal is to always give them a better chance, never a worse one.
Good luck with your efforts, and great to have you aboard!
great job!
Many thanks!
Thanks for the info. I was thinking I needed to clean the feeder leaves as well after a couple of my caterpillars turn exorcist on me with the vomiting. Amazing how projectile they are for such little creatures. Fingers are crossed this helps.
The power of Entomology compels you!
I've read that vomiting is a symptom of pesticides.
That's not untrue. However, it might be more accurate to say, vomiting for caterpillars is a symptom of stress. Stress can be brought on by NPV, bacterial infections, OE parasite infections, or pesticides. So really, it is a symptom for any of them. Just like a cough can be a symptom of the common cold, or the flu, or that someone smokes too much, or that a gnat flew into your mouth while jogging (which happened to me this morning).
@@MrLundScience You are so fun to read!!! LOL LOL
Thanks now I know what happened to 4 that died 😢
Can this happen to the chrysalis? Removed 4 other cats and put in to another cage, but they seem to look wrinkled also have black spots on them?
Thanks
I'm finishing up a round of NPV. Or at least I'm sure that's what it was. None of my cats vomited. They initially were all fantastic and went up into their chrysalis. Then they'd turn black. Soon after some started to "bleed" or whatever that red stuff was. Some lost interest in food, stopped growing or just turned black and died. I had several attempt to go into their chrysalis and turned black and just hung in black goo. It was like watching a real life horror movie. :'(
Sorry to hear that. I'm surprised that they didn't regurgitate, but yes, all of that sounds pretty distinct of NPV. I really hope it doesn't discourage you away from trying, and perhaps bleach treating the leaves can help prevent future situations like this one. You're efforts are definitely appreciated!
I've had the same thing happen to me, sadly they start to oooze black goo when in chrysalis. I don't know what I should do for them
I’ve got Tropical Milkweed and the leaves are small and don’t last long after picked. Could I spray the whole plant let it sit a minute the spray with water . Would that kill the cats ? I’m in Clearwater Florida
Hi! I’ve enjoyed every one of your videos. This is my first year with raising monarchs. I haven’t had any eclose yet, but have 9 chrysalises. I have 15 total in my large butterfly mesh cage.
Today I noticed some things I’m worried about. I mostly am wondering about my first chrysalis.
Today he has more silk. There are no strands hanging down (like a tachnid fly larva) but it has a lot more silk connecting it to the mesh roof, right from the green part of the chrysalis to the roof, making it less able to wiggle. Any idea what that would be?
I also noticed green liquid today (not sure which of the 5-6 loose caterpillars did this) one looks tiny and not moving much. Looks like I need to clean everything like your video explains. I also have a tiny caterpillar that just started j-hanging today, so I think he might be sick. I’ll quarentine the 5 loose cats from each other.
I’m really wondering about the one chrysalis that formed new silk.
One thing we should be able to rule out is that the chrysalis produced more silk once it had already formed. There just isn't a way to do that, as it would have to move around and have a place to emit the silk from, and without appendages to move, and with the one place it could emit silk from being where it is secured, it just doesn't seem possible. Is there a chance that another caterpillar was up by the chrysalis when you weren't noticing, and laid silk there? If they are of similar stages, another could have been making silk in an area it felt it could secure itself nicely, and a place where there already is silk works well. I've had some form a chrysalis right next door to another that had already formed. Could have chosen anywhere...but chose right next to another. I am more convinced each time this happens is that an area with silk might encourage others to form a chrysalis there. So, it may be that another 5th instar caterpillar was thinking of going into chrysalis there, but then decided not to?
Hi Mr Lund. Thanks for the informative videos. This is my second year raising Monarchs but my first year using the bleach solution. How long will the bleach solution last in a sealed container? Thanks!
If sealed, it is a closed system. As long as it is kept out of direct sunlight and stored at room temperature, it should be good for about a year. This is based, though, on standard advice of chemical storage. Realistically, it's mostly the hypochlorite ion that is in there that makes it active, and that thing isn't readily breaking down into anything else that doesn't just re-react with water to produce the hypochlorite again. It's an equilibrium thing. So officially, it should be replaced after one year, but realistically and taking into consideration what actual atoms do, it would last indefinitely. Even bacteria won't be growing in it, as, it's specifically a solution hostile to bacteria.
Thanks for the quick reply! Nice to know that I don't have to make fresh batches every time I want to wash some leaves.
Oh yeah. When it comes to answering questions in these comments, I have different areas of comfort, and I'm always honest with what those areas are. If I don't know something, I fully admit it. If I think I know some of something, I'll make that clear (what I think... what I've heard... what I speculate to be true... ) If it's something I feel confident in, I just answer the question. When it comes to the area of chemistry, I'm definitely at home and in my realm. ;-)
Hello I am new raising Monarch butterfly and I had 90 and only made it 18 butterfly and I do not if they will make on the wild. I am looking your videos to educated me and do a better job next time. I am putting the butterfly inside of net inside my house and putting all the plant in it.For the next time do I need to throw out the plants and the net container ? or can can I wash them and spray the plants with the bleach solution? I leave in the north of Florida in St Augustine Florida and the milkweed plants has small leaves. I do not know if I can wash each small leaves with the bleach solution. Also I was feeding my butterfly with 2 types pf plants Butter milk and milk weed plants. Please I need an advice of this. Thank you.
My big cat just died. It was writhing like that. The small ones that hatched died the second day on the leaf. 😭 I still have 3 left. I have them in seperate containers. I bleached everything, am going to quarantine.
Ugh. Never had this issue last year
Sorry that this occurred. Having been there before, my sympathy is with you.
In this wonderful video (Thank You!), you used the 5% bleach solution to clean leaves. Were those the leaves from the container that the infected caterpillars were in, from the plant you had taken leaves from to put in the container that had the infection, or from any milkweed plant you took leaves from after you discovered the infection in one of your containers?
Can you treat a plant this way, and how would you go about it? Thanks for this informative video!
Can you? There's probably a way, though I'd have to imagine it'd be incredibly complex and not worth it. How would I personally go about it? I wouldn't. If the plant is out in nature, no way would I want to place a bleach solution onto anything in my yard or otherwise. I'd have to assume some would get into the soil, and a bleach solution in the soil can be very harmful in even trace amounts. I'd advise against it.
MrLundScience I’m thinking hydrogen peroxide solution sprayed on then rinsed off. It oxygenates roots so it won’t hurt the soil. I had a few instances of black and gooey butterflies partially emerging. Alive, but sadly macabre! Not sure if it’s oe, bacteria or virus. So much is in the magnifier that I can’t make heads or tails of it! I have photos but I don’t know how to share them to you. I’m in Houston and had many that thrived through the winter and all emerged and flew free. Then this summer problems developed. Now I have only 4 chrysalides and zero eggs anywhere. I think the ones I released recently died or maybe they flew north. I had been seeing one old girly with tattered wings laying eggs every day for a week or so. But, sadly, many didn’t survive the chrysalis stage or had crumpled wings or the black gooey thing. Everything is now sterilized and I’m waiting to see these 4 survivors... you’re awesome! Thank you!
if I have milkweed in a pot from the store, if I spray with the bleach mixture...will it also clean the roots and soil? I sprayed, but feel like it came back with new leaves..
Do we need to replant every time and spray the roots while transplanting?
Has your local Forestry Department sprayed the area with Bacillus thuringiensis to control Tent Caterpillars? Your dead larvae appear to have the symptoms of this bacillus.
My catterpillars got the disease yours did. Almost 40...
After making this video and looking more into the symptoms, I'm pretty certain it was a bacterial infection. Yours may have exhibited the same behaviors, and thus, may have also had a bacterial infection, but it could certainly have been a different type of one. But yes, when outbreaks occur, it sucks...and it teaches us how important sanitation and not overcrowding is. (I don't think I necessarily had an overcrowding issue, but overcrowding makes bacterial infections and other infections much more likely to happen.)
I got it here. Saw green liquid in Main container earlier. Got out of bed an sure enough, already one dead. Got the rest in new container, but hate to see what I have in morning when I get up. Darn!!!
So far just the one dead. Mixed up bleach and got them Quarantined. I did see a leaf earlier yesterday with a substance that looked like Dried Sugar Water on it. I took it away from a caterpillar when I noticed it. Think he was one who died later. Hoping I have a handle on this.
I hope it worked for you. Good luck!
Few days later and 3 more died . They spasm and then out comes the green goo and they are dead.. Hope it doesn't get all of them
Thank you for raising monarch butterflies. I tried multiple times but only got one or two good ones. A lot of them got infected with Tachinid fly larvae. :(. I don’t know how to prevent it. Thanks for doing what you do.
You could try collecting monarch eggs. Also, the younger instars of caterpillars usually have a less chance of getting infected with the tachinid fly larvae. Also, make sure there aren’t any holes in the containers the tachinid fly to go through. Hope this helps!
Your videos are very helpful and informative! I am a mother of two young boys who are fascinated by this process and an elementary school teacher as well. I live near Kalamazoo, Michigan and I am currently using your 5% solution method to bleach eggs and milkweed. I have 49 monarch cats in different stages. This year I plan to use your method of OE testing and tag my butterflies. Do you tag the butterflies you release?
I never have before, but will be this year. Tags haven't gotten here yet, though. Likely, there will be a video on that as well...but really waiting on pins and needles for the tags!
MrLundScience
I look forward to seeing the new video! Your commitment to this process is quite admirable. I have learned pretty much all I know about raising Monarch Butterflies from your videos, and so thank you for all of the work that you do!
This will be my first year tagging my butterflies also (although this is only my third year doing this). I am waiting on my tags to come in the mail as well. I hope yours arrive soon!
My caterpillar is not having seizures or vomiting, but it is not eating as much as it should, over 2 days, the caterpillar only ate one small leave. Is that ok is it healthy? What other diseases make them stop eating or slow down the amount they should. It’s probably nothing but I want to be safe.
I have a question, can other butterflies species have that virus? great info!i have had this problem and didn't know what it was until I watched your video,
You are a nerd:), but you helped me a lot! I just started raising them and was doing great until I brought home a bad batch of milkweed. Woke up and they were all green slime and the two butterflies that had hatched stopped flying and now are just sitting on my finger. I don't know what to do with all the other crystalides I have hanging. Should I wipe them down also? Yikes!
I'm a nerd? Proudly guilty of that! Sorry that a batch of tainted milkweed caused some problems for you. I'm not sure that wiping down the chrysalides can do much at this point. If there is a bacterial or viral or OE parasite infection, it's internal, and there isn't much that can be done external to help that. It's more of a "wait and see" situation. Still, here's hoping that some or all turn out as successful flyers! Good luck!
Thanks for this video. I had no idea of this virus as I have just begun to raise the Monarchs. I have recently found 2 more caterpillars and brought them home. One seems to be doing fine but the other seems like it's not eating as much as the other. I wonder if maybe it's because it had just been born and that's why, or if he or she is sick. I'll watch it another day and see what happens. If he doesn't seem to be getting better or bigger I will contact you and maybe send a photo to you and ask your opinion. What's the best way to make contact with a photo in tow? Thanks so much.
If people wish to send photos for whatever reason, one option is to upload the photos to an Instagram account, or some other place that they can upload photos to the internet, and then provide the link here in the comments. If someone doesn't wish to do that, I communicate also with Monarch raisers through Twitter, where I am @MrLundScience and it's very easy to attach a photo to a tweet or a direct message. In the case of a caterpillar that won't eat, they do go through sometimes a day, or even two days where they take a break and fast, even if nearby brothers and sisters are happily munching away. Not sure why it happens, but it does. If it continues to not eat at all, I would quarantine it from any others and hope for the best. As there's no way to force feed a caterpillar, there's not much that can really be done beyond offering fresh food. I wish the lil' tyke luck and a hungry stomach!
Thanks for the info and as for my caterpillar, he/she has begun to resume eating again. So it must have been a fasting thing that you spoke of. Im so glad I am able to contact you for advice with these little buggers.
Might be pesticidal ingestion by the caterpillars also Rich.
For anyone experiencing this, certainly that's a possibility. As the milkweed I use to feed is sourced from a nature trail (where there's little evidence they're trying to control anything in those fields, which is a good thing) or my backyard where I don't use any spray chemicals, it's not likely that this was the case with these guys. Is it possible that a neighbor sprayed something that caught wind? Certainly possible, but I don't see it as likely. But, the good news is, since always bleach treating my leaves that I use as a food source since that time, I have had zero problems like this. Bleach treatment helps, for sure (when done with adherence to measurements, of course).
Have you done a video on the fly that lays an egg inside monarch caterpillars causing the wings to be deformed?
I used to live in Tenerife until 2014 and had a lot of success rearing monarchs there with my best ever success having 50 adults emerge the same week. I have been in Portugal the last two years and trying to rear monarchs here where the butterfly is rare and mainly lives in a few colonies in the south. I have bought very young caterpillars from a butterfly farm further north. I have had a serious problem I have not seen before and am wondering if you know what it is, please? In a batch of caterpillars most will eat normally and complete their metamorphosis OK but a few caterpillars will lose their appetite and may stop eating for as much as day at a time and will just take small bites of the leaves unlike their ravenous brothers and sisters. This means they stay much smaller than their siblings but they often end up having a longer life as a larva. It is as if their life cycle is being slowed down. I have had one live as much as a month in the caterpillar stage before dying. They always die and it appears to be because they will not eat even though they are supplied with milkweed leaves. There is no visual symptom of whatever the disease is except for smaller size and thinness before they die. Any ideas?
That's very interesting, and at the same time, very unknown to me. It certainly sounds like the other symptoms (size, duration in the caterpillar stage) are just results of the original symptom: spurts of lack of appetite. If you wanted to get to the bottom of it, I would reach out to whatever entomologists you can find. Even if they do not study Monarchs, they can probably point you in the right direction.
Anurag Agrawal is one that I know works primarily with Monarchs, as I just got his new book. His email is available on his website. ( www.eeb.cornell.edu/agrawal/contact-me/ ) and he has answered emails from me before.
Thank you for Anurag's contact details. I will get in touch with him.
Is NPV (virus) 100% lethal? If so is that because caterpillars have a weaker immune system or is it how the virus itself works?
There's oodles about the specifics of this virus I admit to not knowing. That said, I only know if seeing it take out the caterpillars during that stage, or a chrysalis possibly never opening. I've never heard of an adult emerging that still had NPV. Thing is, how would we know if an adult had it? We only can diagnose NPV when a caterpillar has died from it and turned black afterwards. If that happens, it's the smoking gun for NPV. But if we have, say, a chrysalis that never opens, did that one die because of NPV? It may have. But we don't know. As there's no NPV test, just symptoms we can look for, or a type of death that gives it away, hobbyists such as ourselves may be a bit in the dark about it. We just know if there's too much of it (and any effects from it indicate too much is there) then caterpillars start dying. So, is it possible that some caterpillars could have NPV, but such a low amount of it, they make it to the adult stage? It's possible. Also, I imagine it does happen. But there's no real way for a backyard enthusiast who doesn't have access to a virology lab. I hope that somehow helps!