Magic Player Guesses If A Classic HS Card is Banned w/ CGB
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ย. 2024
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Bazaar stremar extraordinaire Rarran dips his toes into variety content and discusses HS
Toes
@@namelessshadow7748 Feets tho?
I think that Rarran's absolutely right about Mind Control Tech. Demon Hunter was the first NEW class they ever added, and it got a lot of absent players to return to the game. I think they wanted to avoid those player's thinking "Hey this is pretty fun, why did I put this game down again?" and then getting MC Teched and going "Oh yeah, THAT'S why."
Rarran just letting CBG call it blade fury.
He is just evil and wicked like that
like the powerful nine
He is the engagement farming king
Considering he is the king of mispronouncing names, it would be very hypocritical for him to call out others
You think Rarran reads cards? He thought it was Blade Fury too until he read the script
37:04 the classic mana wyrm, coin, mana wyrm into opponent ff'ing on turn 1 lmao
mana wyrm into turn two mana wyrm coin sorcerer apprentice mirror image arcane missiles
@@32Singder to be fair, sorceror apprentice was added somewhat later, so mana wyrm coin mana wyrm still is the classic. Yours is likely the updated version, that put the nail in the coffing for it and made them ban the card.
@@achimsinn6189Sorc Apprentice is also in classic.
@@achimsinn6189 sorry im not sure i understand, SA was also apart of the classic set same as mana wyrm
CGB + Rarran is an instaclick 😄
i love watching CGB... on other channels, unfortunately.
@@masansr i just dont like watching CGB's magic stuff, but i like when he's on other channels, even still playing magic
@@GraydenKC Well you phrased that very.. unfortunately.
I keep calling 'Easy, Sylvanas was nerfed, because you used to play it with brawl in the same turn!' and I was suprised that nerf was not mentioned here. Then I checked wiki, Sylvanas was nerfed in closed beta, over 10 years ago... I feel old now :(
OMG, it would cost FIVE!? Madness!
I blame Thaurissan for all the times I've heard a caster say "Sylvanas Brawl"
Yeah I still used it with brawl, either with coin or thaurissan and it was glorious. Probably my favorite combo in all of HS history
That was closed beta?? 👴
Was it not you choose the minion you would steal before nerf?
Fun fact for CGB: The art for Malygos actually depicts his successor, Kalecgos
Ok, I looked at both, and I'm not really convinced, but like not because it's like, obviously not one or another, but because both are pretty much the same, what's the main difference that justify this? The only that I could spot was the beard, Maly seems to have a beard while Kaly has crystals, although you could easily argue that's a artistic liberty, it doesn't fundamentally change the characteristic... althouh if you just say the original art was said to be Kaly then yeah I could believe it.
If I remember it correctly they did it because there was literally no art of Malygos around and they were both just massive blue dragons so it really didn't matter.
@@Cuestrupasterthe devs admitted it themselves, it’s the art for like it’s card in the original card game
@@Cuestrupaster WoW had a paper tcg before HS even came out and that same art was used for Kalecgos in it. HS lifted a lot of pieces of art from that game, especially for the early sets, but often changed who or what they depicted in the cards.
@@MrMarnel got it
20:52
CGB is truly a Blue player. Man is thinking with his gut and his mind, but he's gotta play Red for this one and think using his heart.
There's no thought behind Blade Flurry, you fool! No gut instinct; no reason can solve this card! There's nothing there but RAW EMOTION. Must hit face TWICE. After they nerfed it to only hit enemy minions, then it became a thinking-man's card. But they did also nerf the cost so it just died.... LOL
Was sad too has 3 cost can't hit face might have seen play ;(
@@darkumineru1681 honestly i think the problem is its comparison to fan of knives and the rogue identity. If blade flurry is 3 mana then you pretty much never play fan of knives because in miracle rogue you dont need the extra draw and paying 1 mana with prep to board clear is very strong especially in the class that they specifically DONT want board wipes in, and especially in the deck that can just refuel the hand again and again and again, being able to do huge board clears while also refilling the hand reaches very similar to starving buzzard kind of vibes. I do wonder though what if they kept the face damage but kept it at 4 or maybe even 5 mana as like a versatile finisher OR a board clear.
Oh god. Classic blade flurry, forgot it went face. Imagine how nuts that would be now.
Probably not very, to be honest? Not fast enough for wild, and not enough stuff for weapon rogue to get traction in standard.
Quite scary in wild tbh, not that much in standard
I mean it gives post-nerf kingsbane some kind of win condition
It probably wouldn’t see play in today’s game. The game is a little too fast and/or too resilient to damage for pre-nerfed Blade Flurry to see play.
@selectivepontification8766 it's had a win condition several times over the last few years; going face.
I remember Spellbreaker getting hall of famed because it was limiting design options for silence cards. 4 mana 4/3 neutral silence was very good and it was played a lot. But then the next year they added Royal Librarian which was just a better Spellbreaker.
I remember when they nerfed owl to 3 with no stat buff, making it ao unplayable that people instead played the 4 mana one with semi decent stats. And then THAT gets hof'ed. Maybe they just didn't like silence.
For the decks where a dumb neutral silence matters, a 3/4 is a lot worse than a 4/3. They also tested out a meta without a silence and it didn't go well, so they realized they needed some back.
And yes, royal is NOW a 4/4, but wasn't always.
I think the difference was Spellbreaker was in the classic set which at the time didn't rotate while Librarian was in a rotating set so was fine to be stronger.
I think the Ice Lance HoF was absolutely justified in the context of the time. No matter what mage deck you wanted to play, it was almost mandatory to include 2x frost bolt and 2x ice lance for the 14 burst. And if you're already doing that, well now you should probably include 2x fireball too, and since you have cheap spells and burn, you should play Antonidas, and . . . whoops, you made freeze mage. Ice Lance was the best burn spell in the whole game. It's still ubiquitous in wild. It couldn't stick around forever.
Also, back then, I played a mage deck that was aggro or tempo in every matchup except against Priest. Priest couldn't heal above 30, so you would just assemble a 30-damage combo and kill them from hand. Priest was supposed to counter tempo burn decks, but I had a 100% win rate in that matchup despite being generally terrible at the game. It really was too good.
EDIT: The combo was 2x apprentice, Thalnos, 2x frost bolt, 2x ice lance, 2x roaring torch, fireball for 39. It was pretty easy to get all of that minus one piece and still do over 30. The same deck that could do that could also win on turn 3 against other classes with mana wyrms and apprentices. TURN 3.
I'm surprised CGB did not catch on to the core set explanation as magic did the same thing for a long time. Core set 2011, core set 2012 etc which did the same thing of reprinting old cards so they can be legal in standard
Isn't it the same thing as what foundations is right now?
I think it's slightly different, since Magic's Core sets were always brand new set releases, while HS's core set is one continuous set that switches a few cards over time. It's functually close enough, but I can see the differences being confusing.
Well, Core set is also just free.
@@EzekielGalang-vt8rq Fundations printed new cards, old Core Sets were only reprints
cgb and rarran back again? just mesa’d all over my falcon
i love when she mesas my falcon till i rarran
3:13 CGB pulling out the Blue's Clues notebook. You love to see it
Started binge watching this type of content this week. CGB is an absolute treasure of a human. Keep up the good work guys!
Hes actually the best guest on these videos across Rarran, his, and Cimoo's channel because he's actually trying to learn the games and it's awesome watching his mind work.
@ I actually know nothing about yugioh or magic, but I watch him and Cimo talk about it because they’re funny and genuinely interesting. Lol
@Snaxarus 100%, their friendship that's evolved across the videos is so wholesome.
CGB would come to hate Power Overwhelming if he played the game for a year before it got removed especially with pre-nerf Leeroy.
Yeah idk why he thinks he would like PO when it was most egregious in oonga oonga mono red zoolock where you just explode from PO+PO+Soulfire+Soulfire (didn't discard it from the first one because you are built different).
Sylvanas is almost exactly a card called Keiga, the Tide Star.
It's a 6 mana 5/5 blue dragon with Flying, and when it dies you gain control of target creature.
I mean Sylvanas was worse because it wasn't evasive at all and the minion you get is random. It was still a staple in every single deck to the point where much much later they released a retrain of her that had a much more conditional effect and she still saw play in most decks.
I was thinking exactly the same thing
@@Noobie2k7 Evasion is weird to compare MTG to HS since sylvanas if no taunt can just go face like every other minion that isn't freshly summoned without charge or rush. It's also far different in the context of HS where you can attack minions whereas in MTG the opponent has to choose to block. Sylvanas trading with something to steal their best minion was a common play pattern, keiga when it attacks the opponent can simply take 5.
I think for Mind Control Tech, they probably just came to the conclusion that it's a card that punishes you for breaking a rule that you would otherwise have no idea is a rule. It's a "gotcha" whose only solution is to already know that there is a gotcha. Other than to play around board clears, there's no reason to think that playing a 4th dude is taking a risk. Also, since it's random, it's just extra infuriating when you go from can't lose instantly to can't win, just because they stole the one minion that mattered.
Also, even if you know about it, it's specifically punishes you for doing something you want to be doing, building out your board. "I guess I can't keep having fun. Gotta play around Mind Control Tech." Kind of funny when you see if the first few times, but what a bummer of a card to keep around forever.
It was because people felt like they were being punished for winning.
"I got ahead on board by making good decisions, now you get rewarded for making worse decisions than I did."
People are fine with board clears, but for some reason, having stuff stolen feels worse lol. I love that card.
Having to play around cards is pretty much how the game works lol, control is fun.
It just feels awful lol.
@@YMasterS Then they print reska, that does the same thing without being sble to play around it
@esscate and Yogg, before that. Design philosophies change, so do the design team. The devs are also aware that people complain less about problematic class cards than about feels bad neutrals, which is probably why Yogg got hit so much quicker and more effectively than Reshka (though still not enough).
Yeah mctech was so damn frustrating to play against especially if devs ever wanted to push a token strategy that floods the board then out come the mctechs in every deck since it's neutral.
People also despised the card in arena, not that arena means much.
I do remember MC tech running rampant through arena at the time. Otherwise your mentioned reasons make sense as well.
hearthstone team dont give a f about arena especially at that time
power overwhelning was such a fun card. super versatile. trade, get lethal, get a big minion with stat devourer, board clear with shadowflame..
Having been around at the time, I absolutely guarantee that MC Tech died just because people were tired of it. Playing around MC Tech meant just never fully developing your board, which is... just not fun. It came out *just often enough* that playing that fourth minion was terrifying, and yet was rare enough that usually you were playing around it for nothing; the card was just that scarring when it hit.
Rarran, I would totally watch you and CGB convert beloved hearthstone cards to mtg cards.
And play them, too, for the best proxy cards, are from a different game.
Non-HS player here, won't Power Overwhelming also be good for proactively triggering Deathrattle stuff? Or is it only true in theory, but in practice it just doesn't come up?
ye its debetable. warlock has been using it to proc deathrattles for long time but it really never was the main focus of the card or the archetype. its more like a nice bonus when it works
Yes, Warlocks used it on their eggs to trade and then trigger their deathrattle or steal the minion with Sylvanas for big tempo board swings. They also used it with "Destroy minion, deal its attack as AoE" card to clear enemy board. And they also used it as burst with Leroy.
There was also a card that ate friendly minions and took their stats, that allowed to bypass the drawback of 1-turn buff.
The big flexibility and utility of this card is why it was so widely played in most Warlock decks in the first years of HS and the reason for its removal. The only Warlock deck that I do not remember seeing this was Malygos Warlock, as it only had synergies with AoE spell there.
dude the commander game you did was amazingsuper fun!! i hope i can see you cimo and cgb and roxy next time! i mean i love crim playstyle and he is a really cool dude but i was missing cimo in that game!
i stopped playing hearthstone before mind control tech was hall of famed so i don't know about standard constructed, but during the time i played, in arena specifically, it was the most frustrating card in the world and im glad they shot it.
Because you always knew you should have thought about it, but didnt
10:55 I do need to call out Keiga, the Tide Star. Six-mana 5/5 that steals something on death.
Starving Buzard went to 2 mana again when they unnerfed bunch of wild cards for the first time and it single handedly made beast hunter a tier 2 deck in wild
5:53 always love a good strong bad reference
1:40 Bazaar mentioned
We should all jump ship to teach Blizzard a lesson
Mind Control Tech was removed for the health of arena. I'm pretty sure that was the only reason.
It was banned from arena separately
I swear I’m being mandela effected with regards to the year of the Phoenix hall of fame, I swear I even half recall a specific blurb they gave for acolyte of pain. But I can’t find it so I guess it didn’t happen.
Disregarding that, I’m pretty sure the idea behind it was to weed out cards that tend to be recurring problems for some reason or another. Leeroy for otks and burst wombo combos, mountain giants for coming down too early (it wasn’t that long after lpg and conjurer’s calling was abusing it in mage), MC tech for being generally annoying (I’m pretty sure it was consistently being ran in quest shaman at the time), acolyte of pain for being too good of a neutral draw tool mainly in warrior, and I guess spellbreaker cause they didn’t want to worry about silence killing off whatever cool payoff they’d print later (like a rattlegore I’d guess)
Pretty sure acolyte of pain got HoF'ed because it was among the best card draw regardless of class generally speaking and in other classes would be draw 2-3 cards, which was above rate for 3 mana that also had a body attached to affect the board. While not a HS designer Kibler commented on it saying a lot of decks resorted to acolyte to get more card draw and he has designed for many card games over the years so he knows bad design better than the average player.
This guy is so funny! that power overwhelming rant was amazing!
Hot diggity daffodil pumped to watch this.
Theorizing murlocs got stomped in wild is funny when they wound up fully dominating for months
This type of video made me play hearthstone again (already stopped, but that's not the point). Keep it up!
28:43 Rarran: Got him
This video was a nostalgia trip for me. I stopped playing in 2017 and these cards all used to be staples in my decks
I think a lesson that needs to be learned about evaluating hearthstone cards is that, because you always get mana each turn, you don't have to always evaluate a card "on curve" because more often than not they are played in the mid-game or late-game combined with another card to get the value immediately instead of having to untap with it.
These are my favorite type of Rarran videos. Keep it up!
Murloc Warleader got me thinking there should be a 2 mana "Removal" spell for Shamans that:
*Discover*, Targeted creature turns into the chosen *Murlock*
But when played in a Shaman deck, they either are removing a threat/taunt, or, trying to summon a War Leader on your already full board.
Sounds appropriate as hell.
The average murloc is so small that you basically just gave Shaman 2 mana polymorph.
You would never use this on your own board and would only ever use it as removal
Rarran, you should have them view treasures from solo adventures!
As someone who has never played Hearthstone, but has played WoW, I was certain Sylvanas wasn't banned.
Its lore accurate. She has been banned to play the word expansion for all eternity
The original version is, but there's a different card of Sylvanas with a less powerful version of her effect that was made later where she's wearing her Shadowlands armor that's still normally playable. Many characters get multiple cards or even hero replacement skins based on their Warcraft lore, so you can't always go by a singular one to know how they're represented in Hearthstone.
@@LittlepipMLPless powerful? thats heavily debetable i really cant think of a single way its less powerful than some occasional deathrattle synergy. battlecry mind control is just so much better than deathrattle even if its infuse
IMO MCT had the same issue as old BGH. It had decent enough stats to be played just as a minion without the effect, if you find out your opponent will likely not devellop a board with 4 minions. So you get a card that is ridiculously strong as a tech card, but there is no real downside for putting it in your deck, if the tech doesn't apply. That said they actually had a lot to work with to deal with that as they could just have lowered MCTs stats to 2/2. It would still have worked as tech, but you wouldn't want to play the card without the effect hitting, so in case you play against something like freeze mage that doesn't have lots of minions on board, you're adding a brick to your deck.
38:52 obviously I don't blame him for not knowing about stuff like unleash but it is fascinating to me that he talks about starving buzzard as if it's a card you play on turn 2, and not a card you hold until you can play it with something else.
He also didnt mention UTH has charge
If hunter draws a spell like Hunter's mark (1 mana removal is crazy) or Animal companion (Leok or Huffer) could be potencial lethal 2/3 of the time
Oh yes! I missed these videos, you and cgb have such a great energy!! Also really hoping youre gonna play liars bar again with the mtf crew 😂
CGB and Rarran have such great uncle nephew chemistry!
Azure Drake remains the only exception to the "Hall of Fame cards can be returned to standard". It's such a strong card, because there is no way to accurate rebalance it. If you remove any stats or add cost, the card is simply too weak.
Undead Warchief in MTG has way more upsides. It is a 2/1, correct, but it buffs itself up to a 4/2 and reduces your future zombie spells by one.
i could watch you and Mesa Falcon Guy talk about anything all day ngl
Yeah these two just play off each other so well
When was this video filmed? Starving is 2 mana again @rarran
8:16 @Roffle mentioned?!1?!
MC tech was hall of famed purely because of arena, at that point in time it was long passed being playable in standard due to how fast the game was, but in arena, especially with 'lower skilled' players, it caused so many hate threads on the forum blizzard was probably sick and tired of having to justify why the card was fine.
Power Overwhelming does limit a lot of design space
At worst is one mana deals 4 damage and synergises with the Hero Power.
At best... OTK potencial, increase tempo, pumps more damage for aggro decks, very good with lifesteal/deathrattle minions... this card would be an auto include in every warlock deck
Well, he's not 100% wrong on them caring about Wild. They do nerf the most egregious stuff that comes there, but not much else. Just the most gamebreaking combos. They don't, and also can't, really care about keeping different archetypes viable.
Hearing him call Blade Flurry Blade Fury like a dozen times was slowly driving me insane.
Also, we do have Immune, which makes the target unable to be targeted by enemies and cannot take damage. It is not something you can put on a minion permanently in general. The one card that does this also destroys your deck and it's 10 mana.
As for what the point of Hall of Fame was, it was, in no small part, to take out the overplayed cards, that they also can't really nerf, or really don't want to.
You can't mention Unleash the Hounds without also mention that they had **charge**.
glad to see literally everyone is shocked that Azure Drake got banned
also nailed the explanation for sylvannas, a good card that required you to be proactive and take some risk. shame she got hit too
When Rarran talks about how MCTech was nerfed so returning players can feel good, I can't stop thinking how I returned to the game after 1.5 years, found that almost all my decks were broken because of nerfs card removals. That felt horrible
M giant and Mc tech could probably be attributed to the same as sylvanas or azure drake. They were in every control deck, it was another card you were worried bout or played round, and it was just their time to go. I never realized they didn't say anything bout why they left.
rarran and cgb best combo on youtube rn
I love how CGB evaluate the card correctly and than he thinks about final answer and he change it to the wrong one.
Ah yes, the IGN approach, 'this game is mostly garbage. I give it... 7/10'
The old Blade flurry allowed rogues to board wipe taunts for only 2 mana AND still go face, then equip/create/buff another big weapon and hit twice in the same turn... freaking busted
Blessed Champion ICANT
3:32 fuck I almost fell out of my chair from EPIC, CGB should voice some cards, goddamn
...Spellbreaker got HoF'd? WHY?
Ok, its a decently stated silence, especially in the days where Ironbeak Owl costs 3, but it's not like decks were running a dedicated silence minion (at least by the time I left HS) for the effect.
Yes they did. They fucked owl as well.... they just hated silence.
"Freeze mage is a fun deck" agree to disagree. I was so glad when they HOF'd those two cards. Mostly Ice Block. Freeze Mage was a nightmare in BO1.
Classic Hearthstone
They did actually add Azure Drake back for a year and infact BUFFED it to a 4/5. But obviously you can't have fun dragon generation with Azure as a value tool, so it had to go.
Malygos was hall of famed or i'm trippin?
I always had the feeling MCT was Hall-of-Famed because the highrolls were too good, as HS devs changed their design philosophy over these years, such plays were often deemed as 'bad feeling', and I think that was a factor for MCT. Might've also been to help promote DH I guess, day 1 DH would have wide boards... if you survived that long.
Murloc Warleader activated my neurons.
i think part of it is the felt like they needed to hall of fame some cards from each class.
Hmm now that I think about it Mind Control Tech can be used in a Vanndar Control deck since it currently costs 5 mana.
Wasnt logic behid MCT getting HoFd related to its randomness where no matter what 1 player would always feel scammed by RNG?
A good idea for a hearthstone format I don’t think you’ve done is playing only with an element (ex: you create a deck that only includes fire cards or spells or like shadow cards or spells or nature etc…)
The mana wyrm nerf was so brutal. The jump from one to two mana basically took the card out back and shot it in the face
Rarran didn't mention it, but it did eventually return to 1 mana as a 1/2.
Every MTG player: Is Horribly a Key Word?!
8:28 I take offense to your accurate comment!
40:35 And the hounds also had charge, even better!
You really think dark monk will be more popular than the super element monk? The trailer for the dark monk ascendency was very lack luster in making it look flashy. It just looked like a normal monk gameplay where as the avatar monk look like he was going super sayain. They mostly talked about defensive capabilities of the dark monk which wasn’t exciting. I’m surprised all of the visual effects for the monk wasn’t changed to like black and purple lightning/ice and wind.
20:52 I have no mind and I must scream
🎉Video idea🎉 get cgb to play one of the adventures(dalaran heist is sexiest) with you and let him cook with rarran helping
Sylvanas my beloved, I miss you so much
I could've sworn I remember a timeline where Starving Buzzard was a 3 mana 3/2 but I must be mistaken cause wiki does not remember that at all.
7:23 King of the Pride, baby!
CGB is literally everywhere right now,and im here for all of it
Here is the easy answer for hall of fame works: it is run by Blizzard who no matter the game has a throw darts approach to balance. Which is why among other reasons I have moved off all Blizzard games.
viscous slitherspear is also just a nerfed version of mana wyrm
That said, Vicious Slitherspear did have a viable tribe, and this did matter (such as naga hunter was REALLY good.) Slitherspear also being neutral opened it up to a lot of things that Mana Wyrm would never see. So it naturally had to be weaker.
Mind Control Tech was the last vestige of stupid early RNG. Did you steal the opponent's 1/1 or their 8/8? If you steal the 1/1 you lose, if you steal the 8/8 you win. So stupid.
When they eventually brought it back they made it 5 mana but let you pick the target.
1:40 :) mentioned
It's a little wild to me that Azure drake was hall of famed. What was the reason for that one? from what I remember, it's a fine card. Wasn't particularly broken, it was run here or there, but not in like, every single deck or anything.
It was in every deck when it was 5 mana 4 5 they nerfed it and it was still used everywhere. You basically started with a 28 card deck cause this was a staple.
@@TheBloodypimp I dunno, wasn't my experience post-nerf, but I'll take your word for it. I'm far from a consistent player
Azure drake would of been the best card in the game for half of Magic’s life span
These are my videos that gained my sub, lets go
New idea for mind control tech (when mct dies the minion u stole goes back to the other board/deck) (mct might be okey at 3 mana again in that case).
I always suspect the true reason that they don't share reasons (when the companies normally do) is because no one who is actually working on the game made those decisions. Kindof hard to justify "I like money" as the reason why you banned a card.
Also want to see CBG react to Hysteria and his worst win rate deck ever win via Sylvanas giving opponent Jaraxus
could have hit him with Captains Parrot, cgb would never figure out the reasoning
there is a card in foundations jumpstart called woodland liege that is basically a starving buzzard
CGB is back lets goo
I remember Sylvanas being 5 mana and Power Overwhelming being 0 mana.
I know right?????
@covertgoblue has done too many of these videos, he metagames himself tartan doesn’t have to even try to trick him. Describes everything perfectly than goes against everything he just said. Love these videos though the chemistry is so good.
you know that rabscaian broke cgb if cgb sade blessed champion was hofed