How Different are Formula 1 and Road Car Clutches? | Road vs Race
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
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This is a clutch from a Land Rover Defender, and this is a clutch from a Formula 1 car - they’re remarkably different.
and today we’re going to show you how they both work and explain why on earth this Formula 1 clutch costs £6000 - over 20 times more than the one from the Defender.
So let's start with the road car version because it’s easier to explain the main function of a clutch. It’s there to disconnect the engine from the driven wheels, and you need to do this every time you start and stop a car, as well as when you change gear in a manual car.
This is because internal combustion engines need to keep turning to keep running, even when the car is stopped and the wheels aren’t turning. Clutches also serve another purpose though, they’re there so you can pull away smoothly.
Without being able to smoothly deliver power as you gradually lift the clutch pedal, the car would either stall when you jammed it into gear, or lurch forward suddenly - the clutch enables you to gradually bring the gearbox speed up to the engine speed - and the same the other way when you’re going down the gearbox.
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What part do you want us to break down next? There are so many we are going to show in this series - I hope you guys are as excited as we are.
*Make sure to SUBSCRIBE to make sure you catch the next episode in the series!*
Turbo
DAS steering from Mercedes
Suspension
Maybe u should do a video between the differences between carbon fiber and carbon and the engineering applications that suit each material...
Dear @Driver61
Im interested, what parts the formula teams are changing between races? (Clutch plates, brake pads,oil etc.) I mean like a regular service between race weekends,not the engine change with penalty.
Will you make a video about this?
Greetings
Fun fact: due to the immense amount of torque produced by their engines and the corresponding weight of their clutch pedals, the drivers of WWII tanks very frequently had one very beefy, muscular leg, and one normal-sized leg from the asymmetric workouts they'd receive.
Had to recheck if i clicked on a video of warthunder, sabaton or something
Bulkrieg
5:20 - my first car was a Lada - when I moved onto my Corolla and came to brake for a junction, I damn near head butted the steering wheel as I pressed the brake with the same force I had used in my Lada. Clutch and throttle were heavy also.
Hahaha same way cars that just had a brake job done are really sensitive until the the brakes are broken in.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@ixx Was originally bought to learn to drive but friend was unable to get it on his insurance. Kept it, got it fixed up (took cylinder head off to replace valve seals) and drive it for 9 months until a company director decided to remodel the back end with his Lexus.
6K for an F1 clutch seems pretty reasonable to me!
especially as 1 piston can cost 50k
From all things you gotta spend money on for the sport this one comes in clutch
Probably not counting tens of thousands of development costs.
Would make a great door stop! Send me a few, sounds like a good gift idea.
1.6 engine
I'd love to see an episode on gearbox differences, like how does the loud gear whine occur in only racecars and how do gear transitions go so smoothly and without power loss in a racecar.
He made a video about the gearbox, but not the differences yet, it would be cool, but here it is
th-cam.com/video/bChciv9_BuQ/w-d-xo.html
he made a vid, race cars use sequential box a ring dog gearbox, similar to a motorbike gearbox
straight cut gears and dog boxes if you wanna look it up
the gears in a road car engage on an angle which reduces noise, except for reverse gear though which is why reverse gear whines :)
the difference between dog boxes and synchro gears (what road cars use) is a bit too complicated to explain in a yt comment though
It is in german, but yeah the whining comes from different shapes in Race Car Transmissions: th-cam.com/video/2X3zPySLlFo/w-d-xo.html
Straight cut gears and dogs
I would also like to see about the various fluids(oil, coolant,brake,fuel) used in F1 in comparison to road cars.
The F1 clutch looks like a motorbike clutch
Because it is, F1 engines right now has a similar concept with motorbikes, high Revs and clutch in hand
Not really just the size
@@tundaslug07 ??? Bikes have basket and bell
They have similar gearbox
@@laddaevolta And a stack of clutch plates
The f1 clutch looks remarkably similar to a motorcycle one.
also: cooling, electronics ( ecus vs ecus ), turbos
1.6 engine
I was thinking the same thing, in fact, back in the day, I would pull the steel basket and drive plates out of the Triumph clutch. Replacing them with aluminum ones. Didn't last long, but did awesome things for the rate of acceleration. Durability didn't matter, as I only got about 90 days out of each motor(squeezing every last drop out of what's basically a 1930s design will do that)..... Never could get past floating valves and busting up the stellite on the cam followers.
Very interesting series.
I've been to the Ferrari museum just a week ago and there are the engines from 2000 to 2003 exposed and when you see them the clutches are incredibly small, my hand is bigger. Simply impressive how much power they can handle and what rotational speed they can go to.
The small diameter should be also to lower their inertia in order to achieve quicker acceleration of the engine.
Maybe you just have a giant hand
Absolutely love your videos. Extremely good and informative content.
You do a great job of making this all fascinating. Love it! Love the new series too!
How many still starts can an F1 clutch endure? I'm curious if a race with 3-5 red flags could cause some cars to struggle with worn clutch.
F1 clutches endure free practice 1,2,3 with many exits from the pits plus practice starts. Then there is qualifying Q1, Q2 and Q3. They are then in parq ferme and cannot be touched before the race. Then they endure the warmup and formation lap plus the race start. Then at least 1 trip, usually 2 or 3 fast exits from the pits. Count up the number of clutch engagements. It's a lot.
As the clutch in f1 is an unlimited part, you can use a new one every race.
I haven't got a source but there was a technical expert in f1 that said the teams make a certain amount of clutches at the start of the year, and throughout the year the drivers will use different clutches. The driver will also find out which clutch from the bunch he likes the most, and use that more than a clutch that might be new but he's never used before.
F1 clutch pack very similar to a dry clutch setup from a motorcycle.
The F1 clutch is the same way motorcycle clutches work. Had no idea F1 clutches were the same, but with all the packaging constraints and engine characteristics it makes a lot of sense.
I'd be interested in the split turbo systems on F1 engines and primarily why we don't see that design on any road cars, especially with the issues early hot V layouts had.
The same kind of thing is between the axles on a World Rally Car, it disengages with the hydraulic handbrake. It’s my understanding some classes don’t even have a centre differential, the driver just drags the rear brakes to allow slip between the axles. One of those clutches also costs around 4000 euros, I tried looking into doing something like that on a budget, but could only find things like motorcycle clutches, which are difficult to actuate in an inline application on the driveshaft, or tractor PTO clutches, which can’t rev up to a driveshaft’s speed.
Indeed we are so excited Scott, break down for us the inner mechanical working of a reverse gear of an F1 transmission. Thanks a lot.
Brilliant idea for a series! The contrast between road and race is awesome, but it’d also be cool to see any similarities/evolution too!
Great video. One thing I didn't hear you touch on was the amount of RPM that F1 clutches see and that a normal clutch on a standard road car (not necessarily an aftermarket race clutch, although most of those too) would likely explode at the F1 RPM including the flywheel. In addition to the material improvement for weight and strength, the diameter plays a huge part in the inertia of the clutch assembly. Lower rotational inertia, lower physical weight/sprung mass, lower mounting on the car, stronger assembly, and less stresses with the smaller diameter.
Road cars use flywheels to even out the power delivery from unevenly firing cylinders. To reduce cost the flywheel is used as part of the clutch, so you might as well maximise friction area by having a large friction plate.
F1 cars and racing bikes are less interested in comfort, and more interested in the engine spinning up quickly, so a smaller flywheel is desired. This is why Norton experimented with outside flywheels which could be readily changed to suit the circuit. (I think they were copying an Italian racing bike - Moto Guzzi springs to mind). With no large external flywheel F1 cars and motorcycles use a multi-plate clutch. The multiple plates increase the surface area, and greater pressure on the plates increases friction, but requires hydraulic assistance to operate.
F1 videos from Driver61, Josh Revell, Chain Bear, John Warren, Donut Media and the F1 official channel, all on the same day?!
Today is a good day.
I have the urge to touch that f1 clutch 😍
looking up how F1 clutch worked was the reason i found and subscribed to this channel (over a year ago)
One of the main reasons the diameter of the F1clutch is so small is to minimize the rotating mass. Decreasing the rotational mass in all rotating components allows the motor to achieve its redline in a shorter period of time. Next years bigger wheels will compromise this.
Sry if I didn't catch it, but the clutch is also actuated during gear changes, right? I know the drivers manually push it during the launch, but I guess the gear paddles also send a signal for its actuation on gear changes. An interesting fact is that the clutch "coupling curve" is calibrated during launch training. At last, I guess it was 2019, Kimi's Alfa Romeo was disqualified for using the clutch to work as a traction control advice, which is banned since a few years ago.
I’m frankly amazed that F1 clutch doesn’t cost fully 10x what you quoted.
This is incredibly similar to a motorbike clutch. Of course the materials are superior, but the designs are both multi-plate keyed to a clutch basket in exactly the same way. Indeed it seems to be an older motorbike design, with modern sport bikes using a slipper clutch design which only engages when force is going in one direction making sure downshifts and engine braking don't cause the rear wheel to slip. Of course the amount of back torque can be adjusted on many designs so the benefits of engine braking are retained, but in a smoother (better grip) manner. I'm a little surprised F1 cars aren't doing the same, but presumably the sheer power of an F1 engine makes it an unreasonably difficult job.
A similar design is used in airliner brakes.
500 pnd for a friction plate and clutch assembly?
Cheesus, I've been out of the loop for awhile. Last clutch I bought for my Passat was only about $180...
FINALLY the clearest exploded diagram treatment, combined with the tutor's part display/explain sections, put together in the most appropriate order, and AT A REASONABLE SPEED TO OBSERVE THE OPERATIONS CLEARLY!!!
I've been looking for a demo like this for nearly two decades, and almost every one I've found was lacking in some area or other such that the shadetree mechanic wasn't well served, even if it was clear to an experienced amateur tech.
Cool...
I often change gear without using the clutch in my manual transmission car. Generally only 3rd to 4th and 4th to 5th. Not difficult and does not harm the box when done correctly.
He got his hands dirty to make this video for us. Hats off to his effort!
Great idea for video series.
One of the best visual explanations I’ve seen. Love it!!
Wonderful explanation of how a clutch works, the vid was worth it for that alone but the reason I watched it of course was to see the difference between a car n F1 clutch (which looks much more like a motorbike clutch than a car one). So no fly wheel because the clutch doesn't need it and I've seen them put the starter on F1 cars but I'd love to know how that system works? If the starter is external to the car how do they re-start after an off when away from the pits? I'll have to check you haven't already covered this but I don't remember seeing it so maybe you could do a vid on it sometime?
Hi great video, one thing not mentioned is the reduced inertia when the rotating weight is closer to the center. It allows the engine to rev up faster.
Doing reps on a leg press. made me laugh. I had a highly tuned Scoob years ago with a double sprung competition clutch. Changing gear wasn't an issue but if you hit a red light there was no way you could hold it for 30 seconds.
Would be interesting to see motorcycle parts along side in this series
Awesome episode, breaking down some of the F1 smoke and mirrors.
Much love for this new series Scott.It's so interesting.Keep them coming.
Is the diaphragm spring the reason why, as you mentioned in a previous video, the Formula 1 car has no bite point when letting the clutch out?
Amazing. Really can't wait to see the other episodes on this series. Brilliant! 🤙
Love the new theme. Some of the explanations could be bit slower with the diagrams/animatuon that are used, synched with the narrative. I look forward to the next one.
Oooooooh I like this idea for a series 👍🏻👍🏻
I could swear I already watched a video very similar to this right here in this channel.
The smaller diameter of the clutch also allows it to change RPM quicker.
Looking forward to braking system comparison, disc, rotor, fluid, and others
*big Thank you for the video...* 👏🏻
awesome idea for a show! looking forward to the future episodes of road vs race
I would like to explore the two part turbochargers, where the hot side is at one end of the engine and the cold side on the other. It must be quite a trick to keep alignment of the two wheels perfect, and does having the added mass of the shaft have a negative impact on spoolup?
I would love if you compared the gearbox of a roadcar and an f1 car
Based on the sound I'd guess an F1 gearbox is a dog box similar to a motorcycle gearbox.
Wait, don’t f1 use dual clutch transmissions for gear shifting? Is this shown clutch an older one or am I missing something?
It is sure some older model, nobody wants their actual spec shown for the public ;-)
F1 cars, and most other race cars cars by the way, use a sequential gearbox and don't use the clutch at all while shifting.
While a dual clutch transmission is perfect for fast and smooth shifts in a road car the required size and weight of it make it not suitable for most racing applications.
There may be racing cars with a dual clutch transmission but not on formula level.
The F1 clutch-system is actuly very simulare to how the clutch on my 125ccm 2 stroke motorcross was. I had to change the slats, think it was 5 or 6 of them.
Very nice, clear and interesting video!!
Thank you for reading my mind, I was going to ask about the small springs. 😀👍
oh man that defender clutch and its pressure plate are FLOGGED! look at all the colored spots from over-heating, and the wear marks on the clutch.
I always follow your videos that contain interesting aspects regarding F1. I would love to see F1 engine parts such as camshaft, con-rods etc. Thank you for sharing. ...from Jakarta, Indonesia.
Have you seen the clutch in a Porsche Carrera GT? Just as small and only a single friction plate. Incredibly light and expensive. 10 years ago, the parts alone were close to $25K. Installation is a whole other nightmare.
Slightly off-topic but is it true that in the old days of F1 with manual boxes the drivers would use the clutch only when setting off? Don't know where I heard it though. If so I guess the life of the gearboxes, or at least the gear selectors, would not be overly impressive...
I would add that making the clutches smaller in diameter reduces their moment of inertia (it increases with the square of the radius), so that they can accelerate faster.
I thought those small springs were to smooth out the diesel engine torque "vibration".
Love the channel and this series but being a bit of a novice I did find it a touch difficult keeping up with the pace of the video. Felt like it was a crash course in clutches and less time on the difference between road and F1… maybe worth splitting the two. Looking forward to the next video.
great video.
maybe u can revisit it with a dual clutch or PDK or whatever vs f1 one
Great series idea! Looking forward to more.
I can appreciate the fact that you did this without wearing gloves. Not even kidding, some people appear to be deathly afraid of getting their hands dirty.
😂😂
@@Driver61 you have to feel the clutch
you know what am saying
kinda hard to tell what exact part you're talking about, or which parts are connected to which other parts, without some graphical overlay / other magic...
0:56 is the moment I realized you can write songs
Love this video series. Really detailed explanation and I’ll have to watch it 2-3 times to fully understand.
How much “finesse” do F1 drivers use when they’re launching? On my road car, I’ll gradually ease off the clutch to launch as smoothly as possible. In F1, with only 3mm of play, is it possible to do that? Or is it just about the amount of gas you’re giving it when you do engage?
Would also love to know what part of a road car clutch is the limiting factor for wear. When someone “burns out a clutch” is that when the high friction material gets worn out? Does that happen from letting out the clutch too slowly and having the high friction material spin against the engine component for too long? IE keeping the clutch partially engaged for too long while accelerating?
The F1 clutch looks like a high-tech motorcycle clutch. 🤔
Tbh 6k for a clutch seems pretty cheap considering the 50k Brakes
That animation of a master cylinder looked rather like the F1 clutch plate assembly .......
What is the car at 1.08? I know that gear stick,i just can`t place it. This is really doing my head in
Nice series
Excellent video 🏁🏁🏁!!
Another excellent video 👍
Can you explain how to install one of dose in a regular car
fair to say the F1 designer rode a Ducati at some point.....
I love this series
Honestly, 6k for a clutch is still about 3 times less than I expected.
You make really awesome, interesting content.
The clutch from the Land Rover was the only thing left after the electrical fire.
YOU POST THIS AFTER I SUBMIT MY COURSEWORK COMPARING ROADCAR AND MOTORSPORT CLUTCHES?!
Love the new series
Excellent video. Can you make one talking about the differences between a f1 brake and a normal one?
I believe he already showed it
Here it is
th-cam.com/video/CQCSDRp0pRE/w-d-xo.html
@@chrissss696 thanks 👍🏼
Have you done the turbo yet?
Very interesting, when i first saw the f1 clutch i was like “oh, wet clutch? Interesting” Still surprised it’s dry clutch now, just because of shape and construction is similar to motorcycle wet clutches
It is almost embarrassing that the clutch in my Aston Martin costs almost as much as that F1 clutch
The F1 clutch looks almost identical to that of my motorcycle..
Really should have spent time explaining how motorbike clutches work to give smooth delivery adn protect components and easy to use ?
Cos bikes have had clutch packs for decades !!
Then could have focussed on the difference between bike and F1 ---- not a lot for a MotoGp bike :)
btw the spings are not there to make releasing the clutch smoother lol
Such a cute little thing.
Isn't this a reupload? Feel like I've seen this before?
Maybe the brakes video is what you watched
I had that thought, (de ja vu lol) I checked and its not a reupload there is a video specifically on the clutch and launching the car, and some of the points are the same in both videos th-cam.com/video/x63kTUIb4dM/w-d-xo.html. This one has the "normal" car comparison :)
I feel like it also needs a freewheel.
I think if F1 cars had a freewheel on them, they would be able to shift more smoothly and reach much higher speeds.
Eh hmm Fia regulations be like good tech
Next season banned
This was very interesting!! But please go slower and improve the lighting! I can barely see anything in the close ups of the part!
It was all clear to me, maybe switch the phone or TV Settings to a brighter setting.
@@svenwahnsinn734 I didn't had any issues in the head shots, there's an obvious difference in the lighting between the 2 types of shots
You are not afraid getting your hands dirty@work 😉
Sorry for skipping your Raycon ad 😔😔
I love my raycons!
F1 cars have 2 clutch paddles to engage different parts of the clutch
very excited!!!!!
The Toyota TS020 GT-One had a seven disc carbon clutch.🤷
I feel like you did a video on this already! Still good video
what about flywheels in f1? they don't exist?
Wow that's a clutch!
So F1 cars use motorcycle clutch packs. Fancy motorcycle clutch packs.