What do you think of this song compare to the first 2 single? Also, what are you throught on the new albums details? Let me know if you enjoy the format of me listening twice. Like and subscribe if you enjoyed.
There's an adjective named as Kafkaesque meaning "surreal, nightmarish, confusingly complex". It's derived from Kafka's novels especially "The Trial" and "The Metamorphosis". Main characters in those novels feel themselves being aliniated to society and helpless. They don't know how to manage, adjust and survive.
@baynuman I always remembered the name, so I read a bit about him before listening to the song. I forgot to mention him as I was more thinking about philosophers, but those themes hit the nail on the head with this song. Tati is well versed in using these themes. Some of her best lyrics I think.
@@RustySabita you can label Kafka as philosopher. Usually he's not labeled lake that but he's pretty close to writers-philosophers like Albert Camus, Jean-Paul Sartre, and he was heavyly influenced by Dostoevsky. So yeah, it has alot of sense.
Here's a summary of philosophical themes in this song and the philosophers whose influence is most obviously behind them (with a lot of help from AI): *Heidegger - Das Nichts* Heidegger discusses das Nichts in "What is Metaphysics?" where he explores how the encounter with nothingness-a confrontation with the absence of meaning-reveals our fundamental relationship with Being (Sein). For Heidegger, das Nichts is not just an absence but a force that allows us to question existence and grapple with the essence of Being itself. In the Lyrics The line "The void will bleed das nichts!" reflects this confrontation with the void as a creative force. Here, the "bleeding" could symbolize the existential act of creating meaning (through ink and art) despite-or perhaps because of-the void. This is reminiscent of Heidegger's idea that we create meaning through our authentic engagement with existence in the face of das Nichts. *Jean-Paul Sartre - Nothingness* In Being and Nothingness, Sartre sees nothingness as integral to human freedom. The capacity to negate, to imagine alternatives, and to make choices gives humans their existential freedom but also their burden of responsibility. In the Lyrics The song's exploration of identity ("Whom to wake up in the morning?") and the futility of purpose ("Not everything has a purpose, nothing happens for a reason") aligns with Sartre's view of radical freedom and the anxiety it provokes. The act of creation (bleeding ink) amidst absurdity mirrors Sartre's insistence that humans must define their essence through action. *Albert Camus - The Absurd* Camus’ The Myth of Sisyphus frames human existence as inherently absurd-a struggle for meaning in a meaningless universe. Camus advocates for defiance against the absurd by embracing life and creating meaning nonetheless. In the Lyrics The existential defiance in "Unmasking comes in price all that pure is compromised" and "Laugh! Without interruption to cough blood" evokes Camus’ call to revolt against absurdity. The imagery suggests embracing life’s suffering and absurdity as intrinsic to human existence. *Friedrich Nietzsche - The Void and Creation* Nietzsche famously wrote about gazing into the abyss ("When you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you"). He emphasized the necessity of creating one's values after the "death of God" and rejecting nihilism by affirming life. In the Lyrics Nietzschean themes are clear in the act of creation described as "The void will bleed with ink". This suggests an existential affirmation of life: even in a meaningless void, the speaker asserts their existence through art. The phrase "Life for me is doing time" echoes Nietzsche's exploration of enduring suffering as a path to self-overcoming. *Franz Kafka (as Existentialist)* Kafka himself is often seen as a precursor to existentialism, and the themes of alienation, absurdity, and the impenetrable systems in his works resonate strongly with existentialist philosophy. The lyrics' Kafkaesque imagery ("Face uncovered against the wind", "Exclusion I cement myself alas!") is closely aligned with existentialism's emphasis on isolation and absurdity. Kafka’s protagonists often embody the existential struggle of finding meaning in an indifferent, chaotic world. Jinjer’s "Kafka" embodies existentialist ideas by grappling with the core concerns of these thinkers: Heidegger's das Nichts: The creative confrontation with the void. Sartre's Freedom and Responsibility: The burden of self-definition in a purposeless world. Camus’ Revolt: Defiance in the face of absurdity. Nietzsche's Abyss: Creation of meaning through self-assertion despite nihilism. Kafka’s Alienation: The existential dread of being trapped in a meaningless system. Together, the song doesn’t merely reference existentialism; it embodies its spirit by exploring identity, creation, and the confrontation with the void in a raw, visceral, and deeply human way.
Tatiana Shmayluk on “Kafka: “Being an artist is sometimes beautiful but most of the time it’s brutal… as our art is dissected word for word and ripped apart note by note, we‘re expected to be on point all-the-time … and when we aren’t, we are scandalized. A true artist is vulnerable but the crowd is most often plagued with vultures who pick at every single move you make. It’s a slippery slope when music means the world to us but how quickly praise turns into prosecution… We are all Kings and Queens for a day but most of the time it feels like a Kafka novel for a lifetime. It‘s exciting but surreal and absurd at the same time" So basically they can't satisfy some people. Being an artist and putting your art out there means you get savaged no matter what you do. IMO metal these days is full of gatekeepers, people who are critical just to sound as if they know something others don't and yes over-sensitive people who are easily offended which they spoke about in the Audiotree video.
@coder4liberty I hear that. I think metal fans can be the worst for gatekeepers tbh. Judging people who don't look the part or criticising a person taste, with comment like "Not real metal." I've seen people say that to me and other people in the past. So I get that aspect of what she's saying there. Definitely can be a surreal experience. There are a lot of layers to the song. And I still need to check out that interview they did still.
@RustySabita It took me a few times to like it. Being used to a verse - chorus structure sometimes makes it harder for me to latch on to a song that doesn't do that. I try to consider that a function of what I'm used to rather than about the song itself. I have heard the criticism of the new stuff being that the vocals are somewhat detached from the music sometimes. I don't know if I entirely agree but there isn't a method of songwriting that doesn't fall down once in a while. They have been doing the music first then vocals last way of writing for ten years. Maybe they could find a way to change it up if they wanted to.
@coder4liberty I haven't listened to everything, so I can't agree or disagree too hard there, but from what I heard so far, I think the lyrics are tie quite well together with the tone of what their playing
@@coder4liberty The 1st half of this song is kind of dirge-like, and it didn't do much for me at first. After several listens, I've grown to appreciate the melodic lines. (Also, I have huge respect for the intellectual heft behind these lyrics. You won't find much out there that's comparable.) I haven't listened to "Someone's Daughter" for maybe a month, but I remember feeling at first that the melodies in the clean portion of the song were kind of aimless. I'm not sure whether I still feel that way. There's definitely no problem of "aimlessness" or "disconnection" between vocal melody and underlying music in "Green Serpent", which I think is among Tati's best melodic composition.
I think it's really tough to be an artist because it requires a sensitive soul to expose itself to the judgment of others. I think that's Tati to a T. I think she may be doing a bit of projection when she talks about other people being easily offended - I think she's hurt by harsh judgments, and projects her own hurt onto those who are judging her. That's not to say that her judges aren't also easily offended, just that there's more of a 2-way street going on here than is usually acknowledged. Social media has really had a huge impact on society. It was never the case that artists had the potential to be exposed to the opinions of thousands of "fans" and "haters" alike. They used to have a much more limited exposure, mostly to the roars of adoring crowds and fawning groupies. They used to be much more sheltered, and could construct an illusion that they were more universally loved than they were.
Lyrically, this song is incredibly literate & a heavy lift for sure. We're not that special man. The themes discussed in this song are rooted in existentialist philosophy as developed in the late 19th through the 20th century, because those themes are at the heart of the human condition, particularly in the modern era (meaning the last several hundred years, not the last 20 years or so). "Kafka" is steeped in existential angst, inspired by the works of Franz Kafka and subsequent existentialist philosophers and their explorations of absurdity, alienation, and the human condition. The lyrics delve into themes of identity, struggle, and the chaotic randomness of life, blending Kafkaesque motifs with the band's poetic intensity. *Existence as Absurd and Painful* The recurring theme of absurdity reflects the philosophical stance that life lacks inherent meaning, a hallmark of Kafka's work and existential thought. Lines like: "Absurd of my existence / I'm aching through persistence" capture the struggle of finding purpose in a seemingly indifferent or nonsensical world. The speaker experiences the pain of existence but persists, even when meaning and structure are elusive. *Identity and Transformation* The mention of "Gregor" likely references Gregor Samsa from Kafka's The Metamorphosis, a character who wakes up transformed into a monstrous insect. "Josey" may symbolize another facet of identity, perhaps a contrasting one. The question: "Whom to wake up in the morning? A Gregor or a Josey will it be?" suggests a fluid, fragmented sense of self, reflecting the disconnection and alienation central to Kafka's themes. The speaker feels like an outsider, caught between various identities imposed by society and self-perception. *Art as Catharsis and Sacrifice* The recurring imagery of ink and writing ties to Kafka's identity as a writer and his struggles with expressing truth in a world that distorts and judges it. Lines like: "The void will bleed with ink" suggest that creativity and self-expression are both painful and liberating, with art becoming a means to fill the existential void, even if it comes at a personal cost. The pen becomes a tool of both creation and destruction: "The pen will slid the heart, the pen will slid the heart." *Alienation and Defiance* The lyrics also highlight societal rejection: "I showed my bare face it was ripped off like a mask / As they stapped upon a throat of my own song." The speaker's vulnerability is met with hostility, reflecting Kafka's exploration of being crushed by impersonal and oppressive systems. Yet, there’s a paradoxical acceptance and resilience in lines like: "The world has shut me down but it's more than just fine." This defiance echoes existentialist ideas of embracing absurdity without succumbing to despair. *Themes of Suffering and Mortality* The imagery of coughing blood and the references to disease evoke Kafka’s battle with tuberculosis and the fragile nature of human life: "Laugh! Without interruption to cough blood." Even in suffering, there's a grim humor-acknowledging the absurdity of the human condition. Overall, "Kafka" is an ode to alienation and existential struggle, portraying the human condition as a blend of anguish, fleeting bliss, and the relentless pursuit of meaning. The song grapples with the absurdity of life while finding solace, however fleeting, in art and expression. It’s a profound reflection of Kafkaesque themes, delivered with the band’s raw, poetic intensity.
Thanks for getting to this song so soon after release. So far, after hearing 4 songs, I'd put this at #2 just behind Someone's Daughter. (Fast Draw is an all harsh song that they have played live, caught one of the fan cams). I agree that it does have similarities to Vortex , and to Wallflower, which are a couple of my favorites from that album. As I mentioned in chat, lyrics take me longer, but I'm thinking you could probably apply some of this to the the conflict in Ukraine. Should go look into pre ordering the album right now before I forget. LOL
@chriso6719 I'll do my best to get the limited vinyl collection, but as you know, I had to get the Killswitch 5 vinyl collection. Hopefully, it is still around in a couple of weeks.
What I find interesting about this one is it does not have a traditional song structure which I am not against but also find it strange because it feels really deathcore/hardcore song structure. Which yeah you are right it's progressive very progressive, you don't get Deathcore band being called progressive because the whole genre is like that when the song is not progressive everyone loves it in those genres because it's outside the bounds of the genre usually. Your a millennial your wearing a millennial, I'm a millennial if you are between 30 - 45 you are a millennial, because that's how old they are now. People say that when they don't know what it means. I went to art school where we study this stuff and we use it for marketing purposes. Gen Z is the new generation they are between 15 - 30. Gen X are 45 - 60, Boomers are 60 - 75 and Gen Y is 75+.
What do you think of this song compare to the first 2 single?
Also, what are you throught on the new albums details?
Let me know if you enjoy the format of me listening twice.
Like and subscribe if you enjoyed.
captain clock live ressurection fest It's almost mandatory, excellent performance by Tatiana
There's an adjective named as Kafkaesque meaning "surreal, nightmarish, confusingly complex". It's derived from Kafka's novels especially "The Trial" and "The Metamorphosis". Main characters in those novels feel themselves being aliniated to society and helpless. They don't know how to manage, adjust and survive.
@baynuman I always remembered the name, so I read a bit about him before listening to the song. I forgot to mention him as I was more thinking about philosophers, but those themes hit the nail on the head with this song. Tati is well versed in using these themes. Some of her best lyrics I think.
@@RustySabita forgot to add. Josef is main character of The Trial, Gregor of The Metamorhosis. Both names are mentioned in the lyrics
@baynuman Hard to say it's not a reference now, haha. That is some good lyricism.
@@RustySabita you can label Kafka as philosopher. Usually he's not labeled lake that but he's pretty close to writers-philosophers like Albert Camus, Jean-Paul Sartre, and he was heavyly influenced by Dostoevsky. So yeah, it has alot of sense.
Here's a summary of philosophical themes in this song and the philosophers whose influence is most obviously behind them (with a lot of help from AI):
*Heidegger - Das Nichts*
Heidegger discusses das Nichts in "What is Metaphysics?" where he explores how the encounter with nothingness-a confrontation with the absence of meaning-reveals our fundamental relationship with Being (Sein). For Heidegger, das Nichts is not just an absence but a force that allows us to question existence and grapple with the essence of Being itself.
In the Lyrics
The line "The void will bleed das nichts!" reflects this confrontation with the void as a creative force. Here, the "bleeding" could symbolize the existential act of creating meaning (through ink and art) despite-or perhaps because of-the void. This is reminiscent of Heidegger's idea that we create meaning through our authentic engagement with existence in the face of das Nichts.
*Jean-Paul Sartre - Nothingness*
In Being and Nothingness, Sartre sees nothingness as integral to human freedom. The capacity to negate, to imagine alternatives, and to make choices gives humans their existential freedom but also their burden of responsibility.
In the Lyrics
The song's exploration of identity ("Whom to wake up in the morning?") and the futility of purpose ("Not everything has a purpose, nothing happens for a reason") aligns with Sartre's view of radical freedom and the anxiety it provokes. The act of creation (bleeding ink) amidst absurdity mirrors Sartre's insistence that humans must define their essence through action.
*Albert Camus - The Absurd*
Camus’ The Myth of Sisyphus frames human existence as inherently absurd-a struggle for meaning in a meaningless universe. Camus advocates for defiance against the absurd by embracing life and creating meaning nonetheless.
In the Lyrics
The existential defiance in "Unmasking comes in price all that pure is compromised" and "Laugh! Without interruption to cough blood" evokes Camus’ call to revolt against absurdity. The imagery suggests embracing life’s suffering and absurdity as intrinsic to human existence.
*Friedrich Nietzsche - The Void and Creation*
Nietzsche famously wrote about gazing into the abyss ("When you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you"). He emphasized the necessity of creating one's values after the "death of God" and rejecting nihilism by affirming life.
In the Lyrics
Nietzschean themes are clear in the act of creation described as "The void will bleed with ink". This suggests an existential affirmation of life: even in a meaningless void, the speaker asserts their existence through art. The phrase "Life for me is doing time" echoes Nietzsche's exploration of enduring suffering as a path to self-overcoming.
*Franz Kafka (as Existentialist)*
Kafka himself is often seen as a precursor to existentialism, and the themes of alienation, absurdity, and the impenetrable systems in his works resonate strongly with existentialist philosophy.
The lyrics' Kafkaesque imagery ("Face uncovered against the wind", "Exclusion I cement myself alas!") is closely aligned with existentialism's emphasis on isolation and absurdity.
Kafka’s protagonists often embody the existential struggle of finding meaning in an indifferent, chaotic world.
Jinjer’s "Kafka" embodies existentialist ideas by grappling with the core concerns of these thinkers:
Heidegger's das Nichts: The creative confrontation with the void.
Sartre's Freedom and Responsibility: The burden of self-definition in a purposeless world.
Camus’ Revolt: Defiance in the face of absurdity.
Nietzsche's Abyss: Creation of meaning through self-assertion despite nihilism.
Kafka’s Alienation: The existential dread of being trapped in a meaningless system.
Together, the song doesn’t merely reference existentialism; it embodies its spirit by exploring identity, creation, and the confrontation with the void in a raw, visceral, and deeply human way.
Tatiana Shmayluk on “Kafka:
“Being an artist is sometimes beautiful but most of the time it’s brutal… as our art is dissected word for word and ripped apart note by note, we‘re expected to be on point all-the-time … and when we aren’t, we are scandalized. A true artist is vulnerable but the crowd is most often plagued with vultures who pick at every single move you make. It’s a slippery slope when music means the world to us but how quickly praise turns into prosecution… We are all Kings and Queens for a day but most of the time it feels like a Kafka novel for a lifetime. It‘s exciting but surreal and absurd at the same time"
So basically they can't satisfy some people. Being an artist and putting your art out there means you get savaged no matter what you do. IMO metal these days is full of gatekeepers, people who are critical just to sound as if they know something others don't and yes over-sensitive people who are easily offended which they spoke about in the Audiotree video.
@coder4liberty I hear that. I think metal fans can be the worst for gatekeepers tbh. Judging people who don't look the part or criticising a person taste, with comment like "Not real metal." I've seen people say that to me and other people in the past. So I get that aspect of what she's saying there. Definitely can be a surreal experience. There are a lot of layers to the song. And I still need to check out that interview they did still.
@RustySabita It took me a few times to like it. Being used to a verse - chorus structure sometimes makes it harder for me to latch on to a song that doesn't do that. I try to consider that a function of what I'm used to rather than about the song itself. I have heard the criticism of the new stuff being that the vocals are somewhat detached from the music sometimes. I don't know if I entirely agree but there isn't a method of songwriting that doesn't fall down once in a while. They have been doing the music first then vocals last way of writing for ten years. Maybe they could find a way to change it up if they wanted to.
@coder4liberty I haven't listened to everything, so I can't agree or disagree too hard there, but from what I heard so far, I think the lyrics are tie quite well together with the tone of what their playing
@@coder4liberty The 1st half of this song is kind of dirge-like, and it didn't do much for me at first. After several listens, I've grown to appreciate the melodic lines. (Also, I have huge respect for the intellectual heft behind these lyrics. You won't find much out there that's comparable.)
I haven't listened to "Someone's Daughter" for maybe a month, but I remember feeling at first that the melodies in the clean portion of the song were kind of aimless. I'm not sure whether I still feel that way.
There's definitely no problem of "aimlessness" or "disconnection" between vocal melody and underlying music in "Green Serpent", which I think is among Tati's best melodic composition.
I think it's really tough to be an artist because it requires a sensitive soul to expose itself to the judgment of others. I think that's Tati to a T. I think she may be doing a bit of projection when she talks about other people being easily offended - I think she's hurt by harsh judgments, and projects her own hurt onto those who are judging her. That's not to say that her judges aren't also easily offended, just that there's more of a 2-way street going on here than is usually acknowledged.
Social media has really had a huge impact on society. It was never the case that artists had the potential to be exposed to the opinions of thousands of "fans" and "haters" alike. They used to have a much more limited exposure, mostly to the roars of adoring crowds and fawning groupies. They used to be much more sheltered, and could construct an illusion that they were more universally loved than they were.
Lyrically, this song is incredibly literate & a heavy lift for sure.
We're not that special man. The themes discussed in this song are rooted in existentialist philosophy as developed in the late 19th through the 20th century, because those themes are at the heart of the human condition, particularly in the modern era (meaning the last several hundred years, not the last 20 years or so).
"Kafka" is steeped in existential angst, inspired by the works of Franz Kafka and subsequent existentialist philosophers and their explorations of absurdity, alienation, and the human condition. The lyrics delve into themes of identity, struggle, and the chaotic randomness of life, blending Kafkaesque motifs with the band's poetic intensity.
*Existence as Absurd and Painful*
The recurring theme of absurdity reflects the philosophical stance that life lacks inherent meaning, a hallmark of Kafka's work and existential thought. Lines like:
"Absurd of my existence / I'm aching through persistence"
capture the struggle of finding purpose in a seemingly indifferent or nonsensical world. The speaker experiences the pain of existence but persists, even when meaning and structure are elusive.
*Identity and Transformation*
The mention of "Gregor" likely references Gregor Samsa from Kafka's The Metamorphosis, a character who wakes up transformed into a monstrous insect. "Josey" may symbolize another facet of identity, perhaps a contrasting one. The question:
"Whom to wake up in the morning? A Gregor or a Josey will it be?"
suggests a fluid, fragmented sense of self, reflecting the disconnection and alienation central to Kafka's themes. The speaker feels like an outsider, caught between various identities imposed by society and self-perception.
*Art as Catharsis and Sacrifice*
The recurring imagery of ink and writing ties to Kafka's identity as a writer and his struggles with expressing truth in a world that distorts and judges it. Lines like:
"The void will bleed with ink"
suggest that creativity and self-expression are both painful and liberating, with art becoming a means to fill the existential void, even if it comes at a personal cost. The pen becomes a tool of both creation and destruction:
"The pen will slid the heart, the pen will slid the heart."
*Alienation and Defiance*
The lyrics also highlight societal rejection:
"I showed my bare face it was ripped off like a mask / As they stapped upon a throat of my own song."
The speaker's vulnerability is met with hostility, reflecting Kafka's exploration of being crushed by impersonal and oppressive systems. Yet, there’s a paradoxical acceptance and resilience in lines like:
"The world has shut me down but it's more than just fine."
This defiance echoes existentialist ideas of embracing absurdity without succumbing to despair.
*Themes of Suffering and Mortality*
The imagery of coughing blood and the references to disease evoke Kafka’s battle with tuberculosis and the fragile nature of human life:
"Laugh! Without interruption to cough blood."
Even in suffering, there's a grim humor-acknowledging the absurdity of the human condition.
Overall, "Kafka" is an ode to alienation and existential struggle, portraying the human condition as a blend of anguish, fleeting bliss, and the relentless pursuit of meaning. The song grapples with the absurdity of life while finding solace, however fleeting, in art and expression. It’s a profound reflection of Kafkaesque themes, delivered with the band’s raw, poetic intensity.
No hoard of value is an old son but amazing
@@SeñoraKaren-r5k May check that out next!
I’ve already ordered the album the moment it became available.
@@EmAllWasTaken Did you just get the CD or pick up any merch?
@@RustySabita Just the CD and was seriously considering the LP but I don’t have a record player yet..
Thanks for getting to this song so soon after release.
So far, after hearing 4 songs, I'd put this at #2 just behind Someone's Daughter. (Fast Draw is an all harsh song that they have played live, caught one of the fan cams). I agree that it does have similarities to Vortex , and to Wallflower, which are a couple of my favorites from that album. As I mentioned in chat, lyrics take me longer, but I'm thinking you could probably apply some of this to the the conflict in Ukraine. Should go look into pre ordering the album right now before I forget. LOL
@chriso6719 I'll do my best to get the limited vinyl collection, but as you know, I had to get the Killswitch 5 vinyl collection. Hopefully, it is still around in a couple of weeks.
The heavy drum part has an interesting image. It appears to be Tati with the microphone and a crowd being chaotic.
What I find interesting about this one is it does not have a traditional song structure which I am not against but also find it strange because it feels really deathcore/hardcore song structure. Which yeah you are right it's progressive very progressive, you don't get Deathcore band being called progressive because the whole genre is like that when the song is not progressive everyone loves it in those genres because it's outside the bounds of the genre usually.
Your a millennial your wearing a millennial, I'm a millennial if you are between 30 - 45 you are a millennial, because that's how old they are now. People say that when they don't know what it means. I went to art school where we study this stuff and we use it for marketing purposes. Gen Z is the new generation they are between 15 - 30. Gen X are 45 - 60, Boomers are 60 - 75 and Gen Y is 75+.
Oh, I said millennial, didn't I? Whoops, I meant Gen Z. I knew that.
Awesome song! Great reaction!
@vshcode9524 Thanks, buddy. Glad you enjoyed!
Люблю твори Іранца Кафки, люблю твори Jinjer 🎸🤘🎵 перемоги та миру Україні 🇺🇦✌️
I've considered Jinjer my favorite band for about 4 years. Not feeling this album so far. Might have to switch my favorite artist to Ravdina, haha.
I'm enjoying it so far, but we'll see what the rest of the album sounds like.
I'm loving it myself. You never know what to expect from Jinjer. That's how the best bands are!
@@ericpeterson7512 100%.