Yes, a Subie with a blown head gasket! But why does it cost DOUBLE to fix?!? CAR WIZARD explains
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ย. 2022
- Some common repairs cost more on some cars than others. The CAR WIZARD 🧙♂️ explains why it costs double on this 2009 Subaru Impreza.
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ill b honest 3500 is completely reasonable
I had the head gaskets replaced on my Forester about 7 years ago and the dealership only charged $1200.
Not with inflation
For engine out with all the other stuff, I agree!
@@chadf2169 Not only inflation but there were plenty of parts 7 years ago
@@anthonymarin5684
More specifically, not with Uncle Joe's inflation.
I had the same situation in my 1996 Outback. I also declined the head gasket work, since my Outback had over 400,000 miles on the body and few parking lot dings in the body. I ended paying the mechanic for his services, plus $200 and gave him my 1996 Outback. I ended up buying a 80,000 mile base model Ford Focus with a 5 speed manual from neighbor for $1000. She was 90 years old and gave up driving. That was in 2016. Two months ago I gave the Focus (now with 125k miles) to my other neighbors teenager as a first car (I had him help me with some home DIY projects) and purchased a new Corolla hatchback manual to replace it.
Did I read that right? You paid for the diagnosis PLUS $200 extra AND gave him the car?
@@jasonhensley2452 LOL! 😅 He could've paid the mechanic nothing, and SOLD the car to the mechanic. The mechanic is going to fix it himself for little money, and then sell the car for a handsome little profit. ☺
At least buying a Corolla was one clever thing he did ☺
@@labourlawact7826 hopefully he will stop making deals before he goes broke.
@@jasonhensley2452 sounds like he is watching too much Hoovies Garage 😂
Something I would like to mention about the driveshafts. I owned a 2004 Subaru Forester and the u-joint went out at about 200k miles. The shop I had it at recommended that I bring the driveshaft to some specialists about an hour away. They actually cut the ends off the driveshaft and welded in new u-joints and made it a serviceable part. It was quicker and cost about the same as getting a new driveshaft from Subaru. The nice thing is that if the u-joint goes out again, it can be simply replaced and it will cost a lot less than replacing the entire shaft and they warrantied the the driveshaft for 70k miles. The car is at 240k miles now and it is still holding up great!
What I thought.
Yeah…I never bought the “non serviceable” line anyway! You can always fabricate a serviceable part..but as a mechanic, The Wizard is speaking from a warranty point of view I’m sure..lol.
Have to find the right shop to do the work - not all of them will and I know my local indy BMW shops all have their fav people to do the work.
Welding on new ends is an option, but you can also just buy replacement u-joints for the original ends. You remove the staked-in joint and replace it with a joint that uses inner c-clips. I've done it before on a Honda CR-V. Car Wizard seems to think that just because his local driveline shops are unwilling to do this, then it must be impossible.
I went through this on a '72 Mercedes 250 30+ years ago. Dealer wanted $600 for a new driveshaft. Local shop cut off & welded on some end that used a replaceable Chevy Nova U-joint, then rebalanced it, for about $180. Of course that was a long time ago. I also had the (brass) radiator re-cored on that car for similar savings. I wonder how many shops are doing these jobs today?
Price here in pa for head gaskets “triple layered” replacements , entire timing set is around $1800 total . Some places $2100 . These engines come out in 3 hours by any good tech . 18hrs is a crock . And these are top shelf shops .
The machine work is expensive. Best practice to go through the heads while they are off, getting the guides checked at the same time. Understandable of you just clean them, check for cracks and surface them though.
I could have that engine out in an hour if everything went smoothly like the exhaust nuts coming off without a fight.
Whenever I do these jobs and the car is a manual I also always recommend putting a new clutch in at the same time since the motor is out and usually has to go on an engine stand the clutch has to come off anyways.
Clutch, check the rear access cover and the piston pin plug on the opposite side for leaks, check the rear main seal, ALWAYS replace the crossover pipe O-Rings on these engines when you do this ($3/ea. and not real fun to replace in the car with the intake on), cam seals (especially if it's going to the machine shop for a resurface anyway), adjust valve clearance, replace the oil pressure switches for the variable cam timing (the driver's side is easy to get to but the passenger side one is at the back of the head and these things always leak anyway), insist on a factory thermostat and gasket, may as well replace the radiator cap to avoid potential comebacks on the main repair, of course the timing belt but generally the tensioner is weak by this point and the cogged idler by the water pump is probably starting to get a bit weak....I could probably come up with a few more things as I spent enough time at the dealership doing these things and we didn't mess around--you're getting it done right or you can roll the dice with your buddy who can "do it cheaper."
@@406Steven so would you say that the boxer engine is highly time consuming to maintain and expensive because it has to come out to be serviced
@@HealthSupercharger You can do regular services with the engine in the car but for certain things it's easier to just pull the engine. Fortunately they're very easy to pull, if youre working by yourself and taking your time it'll take an hour or hour and a half to pull the engine from a Subaru so engine-out stuff isn't terrible as long as you've got a shop or garage to use.
Not all head gasket jobs require sending off to a machine shop…I blew mines a few weeks back and only drove a mile and a half on it and never started it again..when I tore it down the deck and head were straight so I didn’t have to remove the small block from the car…not only did I check with flat steel I’ve been a flooring guy for 15 yrs so I can usually eyeball and tell if something is outta square
Absolutely love this year and model of the Impreza hatchback.
Disclaimer though: I've anecdotally found a couple youtube videos where mechanics claim (Like Mr Subaru) that it IS possible to change the head gaskets without pulling the engine, but it's "easier" to just lift the engine, and because it's a "boxer engine" it's remarkably easy to pull. It's built to be taken in and out of the bay. It was intentionally designed that way, unlike other engines. They claimed it'd take 30-40 minutes to get the engine on a stand, and from there you have all the space you need to do any maintenance you need to do. This job absolutely should not take 12 hours to do and it absolutely does not require you to change your belts and pulleys. The claims of other youtuber mechanic shops on this exact topic state drastically different repair times than what Wizard is claiming. Bar's Head Gasket Sealant, if the broken seal is minimal, has a fairly good chance of sealing that leak on it's own. (Thoroughly tested and confirmed effective by ChrisFix) Spend $15 on that before you go to a mechanic to get quoted for a $3500 job.
Viewers, don't fall for mechanics claiming they have to change x, y and z on top of the thing you went in there for. That's how they get all that money out of you. Preemptive and often unnecessary repairs (at that time). They just love to tack on the tasks that the car owner could easily do on their own.
while its not easy, i have seen a headgasket replacement without pulling the engine, full replacement within a few hours. myself will take it probably a couple days since i dont have that much experience with this engines but a experienced mechanic in boxer engines can do it in a few hours, not 12 or 18 like the video said, 3-4 of they are going easy on it.
the rest of the parts are suggested but not entirely necessary.
Ah, Screwbaru. I've owned ONE Screwbaru, in college. It was a 1980s GL Wagon TURBO AWD. SO many things to break. Anyway, it wasn't the worst car I've owned, but it was expensive to fix. I had to replace one of the intercooler hoses to the turbo, and then being in NY state, the exhaust system rusted to the point where it needed replacing. Back in the day, that was a $1200 job. In today's money, that is $2500. For an exhaust system. I didn't know what I was going to do until one night after school, traffic was backed up onto the interstate around a blind corner. I had to stop fast, nothing I could do. I looked in my rearview and there was a car that obviously could not stop in time. I fist-pumped with joy, relaxed, and waited for the impact. She hit me hard enough to shove the bumper underneath the car, and I knew that would total out that POS. Moreover, the shop that did the estimate called me later and offered me cash for it. I actually made money on that car. And no, I will never own another Screwbaru.
That is a very reasonable price with such a professional and knowable person.
I have a neighbor who works in a garage part time and he used to live just down the road from me and did work on cars at his home..... About 7 years ago the engine on my 2008 Subaru Forester started overheating..... He determined it was the head gasket...about 85,000 miles on the engine...he took the engine out and put new head gaskets in and charged me about $500...I now have 125,000 miles and it's never bothered for 1 second during that time.... He moved away and I really miss taking my car to him and just walking the 10 minutes back home.....thanks for the video
Paid a lot of my college flipping these Subies. Pull heads, check for warpage, install updated set along with a timing kit, fix a few odds and ends and make a few grand over the weekend. Buyer gets an issue free Subaru and I get some change.
I guess if you did many of them, you'd get pretty fast at it. I just did head gaskets on my truck a couple of months ago - I figured it would take 2 weeks, and it ended up taking 6 (waiting for parts, waiting for the machine shop, and just a lot of work taking it all apart and putting it all back together again - but I'm a bit anal about things too, so doing many of them I'd also probably learn where to take some shortcuts to make it go faster too)
@@gorak9000 These Subaru EJ25 SOHC engines are extremely easy to work on once you get used to them. You can honestly have the head out with the engine in within about 90 min. Remove the mounts, jack it up a bit on the pan with a wooden block and you've got enough room on each side. Usually the head gasket leak is an affect and not a cause, but for Subaru's they're almost always due to the faulty gaskets themselves. Obviously would always check for warpage, but if you get it soon enough, I'd say it's a 95% chance there isn't warpage.
@@rsage_ I guess also having a flat area to work on, especially if it's inside would make things go faster too. I did mine in the driveway (I have a garage, but it's full of other stuff), and the driveway has quite the slope to it, which makes everything more difficult. Couldn't work on certain days because it was just too hot to be out there working. Really fun to pull cast iron heads (which basically need an engine hoist as they're a bit too heavy to lift by hand) on a 35* slope! Also, I have a really bad habit of putting down tools in weird places, and routinely seem to spend 20 minutes looking for that tool I just had in my hand 2 minutes ago!
@@gorak9000 I can loose a tool within 10 seconds of having it in my hand.
@@rsage_ …I owned a 2008 legacy, 5 speed manual, NA engine, I loved that car, engine was easy to work on, car itself was so easy to maintain. Only issue was very little ground clearance but ramps and jack stands did the trick. Wish they would go back to that type of simplicity.
For a while a guy who's boat I was working on loaned me a Daewoo Matiz. It had a leaking head gasket. So I decided I'd change it one weekend.
Went to a nearby Korean car parts supplier to get a head gasket kit.
They told me the head gasket wasn't available on its own. You had to buy a complete engine overhaul set, with valve stem seals, crankshaft seals, sump gasket- the works.
I thought oh yeah, typical rip off.
"What's that cost?"
"$37"
I just did this on my wife's 06 outback with 288,000. My time was free and parts total was $1000 but I did more replacing than just the head gaskets. All seals, timing, oilpan, dipstick tube, valve covers,oil sensors, timing covers, heads machined, spark plugs, head bolts, exhaust studs and misc.
Question, did you ever have to change the differential fluid or service the AWD on your Subaru?
@@zzoinks Never repaired the awd but I did replace the diff fluids.
Hopefully you used wrx hg and arp studs. Cheap insurance
@@zzoinks hell ya if you want it to last. 60k to 90k you should change it.
@@whocares5188 turbo head gaskets but subaru head bolts
Had the same thing happen with my 2007 Impreza with 100K miles. I went to and authorized Subaru shop and they did the head gaskets, timing belt kit, thermostat, water pump, and I needed a rear wheel bearing. entire cost was $2100. The dealer wanted over $2500 just for the head gaskets. Car was fixed in less than 2 days!
Damn that is a great price. Alot of those shops that specialize in certain cars really have the system down to a science.
Damn not sure how you got a price like that. My local dealer charged me 2200 for timing belt kit alone, water pump not included, in my '14 wrx.
@@jewsclues8898 Its not a dealer he went to, its an independent shop that specializes in subarus
Depends on what they're doing. If they're replacing a head gasket and not taking the heads to get surface and have new valve stem seals installed - it'll save money but increase the chance of a failure down the road. A head surfacing, cleaning, and pressure test at a machine shop is about $200-300/head. Also depends if they're using dealer parts. Subaru's have good and bad aftermarket timing belt parts kits available. If the water pump doesn't include the nice metal spring gasket, and included a fiber/paper gasket instead, it's probably not a good kit. You'd also want to do an OEM thermostat and appropriate seals for that as well. Lots of places to cost cut on those cars if you want, but you'll end up back at square one in short order.
@@IdealGrain the fault is purely in the gasket in these 2.5 na engines replace with multi layer steel gaskets and proper maintenance will exceed 400000ks
While my mechanic dropped the engine, Eric O. From South Main Auto didn't. So it can be done.
Its a big job, no doubt, but done right with MLS gaskets torqued properly, it will never have to be redone, and properly maintained these cars can last a very long time.
I agree. What no one shows in any video, is the 20mm round magnets I use to hold the rockers in place while I put the cam carrier in position. It's a tight squeeze with the trapped head bolts, but not impossible. However, my being clever was not rewarded, as the machine shop kept screwing the job up. Had to fire them for any Subaru work.
Love your videos. I just bought a 2008 Subaru legacy with 60,000 miles. One owner. After I bought it I took it to a Subaru dealership for a 60,000 mile service for them to tell me my head gaskets are leaking just like this one in the video. They quoted me $2800. I will get it done. It’s just sad to spend $10,000 on a low mileage car for the head gaskets to be bad. I will be going after the used car dealership to get some money back. Thanks for this video
Exact same thing happened to my 09 Subaru. At 79,000 miles I started noticing oil spots in my driveway, and sure enough upon further inspection it was the head gaskets. I honestly had a hard time finding someone who was willing to even work on it, a few shops flat out said "No. We don't do that here."
Yes shops are always scared with things they don’t understand. I lived in Georgia once and my evo had a leak, I ended up going to 5 shops until I found one that would work on the car. This is after I told all of them what the issue was that a line from the awd system was leaking and needed replacement, they were all spooked. Honestly that is why I do all the work myself.
That's because most shops are not repair shops anymore. They ars oil change & brake pad services stations. It's a shame what has happened to the industry.
I'm trying to get transmission shops to rebuild the trans in my 2011 scion. Called 10+ shops and got one of two answers. "We don't rebuild manuals" or "I'll call you back if we can get parts for that." It's been over a month and no response, I assume it was a way to let me down gently. But a transmission shop that doesn't rebuild manuals? Huh?
You really had me scared right up to the end when you said $3500.00. That sounds very fair to me for an engine out head gasket and timing service. I'd write that check with a smile (maybe a sideways grin) and enjoy my little Subaru for another 100K in that situation.
all cars have issues too although some more than others especially at high miles. I like my 2010 impreza for two reasons no cvt and reliable awd but the newer cars that shut the engine off at stop and starts up annoys crap out of me too. My car is 145k and still does not need this service but i suspect will eventually and i think may be worth it since i got i got 10k miles ago for 3200 and i doubt it was serviced before at that price i can also see my belts need service soon so i suspect.
I suspect that the customer will be back as soon as they can raise the money.
4k every 100k hell yeah nice car
Exactly! $3500 is a steal for all of that work.
If the Subie is clean enough as this one is, I'd rather pay off $3500 than whatever a new car will cost. My guess is the current owner with two kids is thinking about purchasing a larger vehicle.
Mr Subaru 1387 has a video on YT about Subaru head gaskets. Subaru makes a replacement gasket that corrects the head gasket problem.
Thanks for the video Car Wizard, that's not a bad price actually these days. We did an '09 Forester before we sold it to our kids - for less than we payed to have the head gasket issue fixed of course. The first shop that quoted did not include a new water pump, machining the heads or new head studs. If anyone is getting it done, it pays to do it right, but no, it's not free.
most shops around here way overcharge for Subaru headgaskets. you can pull a N/A Subaru engine and have it on the stand in 45 minutes. unless it is the 1st time your doing one or are not a good mechanic it doesn't take 12-18 hours and it is only about $500 in parts. i do them all the time for around $1500 including all this:
labor
machine shop cost to resurface heads
head gaskets - OEM or Fel-pro
intake gaskets - Fel-pro
exhaust head pipe gaskets - OEM
valve cover gaskets - Fel-pro
cam seals - OEM
crank seal - OEM
rear main seal - OEM
water crossover o-rings
timing set with water pump - AISIN
spark plugs - NGK
air filter
oil filter
fluids
cleaning of leaked oil residue from engine and engine bay
Low overhead is key to keep the prices down.
@@mph5896 it helps alot, but shop are still way overcharging. Subaru engines are super easy to pull and work on.
Dang that’s a bargain especially in todays economy.
@@elic7002 it is only around $500 in parts(and alot less if you dont replace the full timing kit). my local machine shop charges $100 to resurface both heads. the engine takes less than an hour to pull, a few hours to clean and regasket and maybe a little over an hour to reinstall. the 1st time you do one it might take somewhat longer, but after that there is zero excuse to take 12 hours to do this job. these are some of the simplest modern cars to work on.there is plenty of room to work and nothing is hard to get to. and im in New England where everything is rusted to hell, a shop in the rust free south has no excuse whatso ever to charge extortion prices.
Thank you for being honest with these folks. Not many mechanics would do that these days.
Thank you for looking out for that family.
only 103 thousand miles like damn that's not that much
the head gaskets on my 2005 Outback 2.5 5MT EJ259 have been leaking oil since I bought it 5 years and 90,000 miles ago. 258,000 on the odometer, and the coolant is still good. I check the oil level every time I fill it up. With Snow Tires, this thing is unbeatable for North-East Winters. "It still runs!" lol
Exactly! As another famous youtuber say: "Oil is cheap, engines are expensive". Just keep adding oil. It can run like that for years.
@@robsonselzelin
Can you say Scotty K?
Add gasket rejuvenation chemical. Worked for me and cost 15 bucks.
Are you sure its the head gasket?
@@dingdong2103 There are different ones Check.Good for 50k on my Truck 4cyl I Caught it early then changed all fluids..Got 250K😁😁😁
EJ251/253 have the headgasket issue due to the graphite coating used on those headgaskets. Using a turbo MLS gasket will solve the problem. MrSubaru1387 has a great series of videos on thr subject.
Cometic makes a good head gasket that pretty much solves the issue as well.
Can 2nd that channel for Subaru expertise. He’s on Mr. Wizard level of service on his channel.
There's a reason Subarus have similar resale values to Toyotas in spite of the head gasket meme.
I will agree that they hold value, but I would also say this generation of Impreza (08-11) is probably the cheapest to find as well as the cheapest quality. I’ve owned a 08 sedan for 4 years (about 40-50k miles) and the interior really didn’t hold up well past 100k, as well as the bumper brackets sag on most of the others I see on the road. Drivetrain is a beast though and it’s never left me stranded.
@@caleb7674 Subaru is at fault tho, if they didnt cheap out and just used MLS on EJ25 then they would have spared themselves of that. It was most commonly chosen engine options on Outbacks, Legacies, Foresters and Imprezas and contributed to many hateful reactions from owners who kept getting graphite shite on repairs, so obviously it came back once graphite got cooked off the gasket after another 100k miles.
My 1999 Outback blew both head gaskets and was overheating. The car had 193,000 miles. Other than that the car was in fine shape and everything worked. I tried to find a J-dam motor, but during the Covid lockdown and the chip shortage everyone else was buying them up. Finally the business that sold j-dam motors told me they also rebuilt engines, but they were already 2 months behind. I opted for the rebuilt motor and left my Outback with them. I bought a set of multi-layer steel head gaskets and gave them to the business. I wanted the best head gaskets, not the ones that came with the rebuild kits they would buy. Surprisingly they got to it in 30 days and I paid $2,000 dollars, tax included out the door. That's the exact amount that I paid for the car with 174,000 miles just 3 years prior. I'm retired, so I don't drive much. So, I think this car with it's "new" engine should last me the rest of my days.
Earlier this year I bought a used 2008 Impreza 5 door hatchback from a Subie mechanic.
On the side, he'll buy Subies with blown head gaskets , fix them & then re-sell 'em.
Mine had 142,000 miles on it and I paid $4,500.
He replaced the head gaskets & had the heads machined, timing belt, water pump & also put new brake pads, rotors & tires all the way around on it.
He literally fixed *anything that was wrong with it before selling it to me.
In this economy, I'm happy with it.
*There was a (low pressure) tire sensor that was bad and when he told me what it would cost if I wanted to get the light to go out on the dash, I said "no, that's o.k. I'll manually check the tire pressure IF it appears low."
My gf's clean 2002 Forester had the same oil leak issue for over 100k miles. At 200k it suddenly started blowing coolant overboard. She had an eye on it and took it to the shop without overheating. Gaskets, rear brakes, timing components, head resurface came to about $4500 in San Mateo, Calif. Altho the car is barely worth half that, she didn't have to fork over $35000 for a new one.
False economy in my book putting that kind of money in a 200,000 mile car! How long will it last without another major event? Someone rear ends her at a light and totals the car and insurance pays 1500.00? Talk about rolling the dice!
I would have bought a more reliable car 🤣
If it didn't overheat, then the heads shouldn't have needed to be resurfaced (note I said SHOULD not have - is that the issue with these in the first place? Are the head gaskets leaking because the heads are warping from normal operation?? Seems like quite the design flaw if that's the case)
She's nuts! Junkyard!
Dumb people buy new cars. Waste of money every time
Your videos always remind me why I don't go to a shop anymore. My water pump went out a week ago (2006 Outback) and I spent 2 days in my driveway doing the drive belts, timing belt, hydraulic tensioner, thermostat, water pump, and harmonic balancer. It sucked in 40 degree rainy weather, but now everything on the front of my engine is OEM brand new for $600. I can't imagine how much it would have been to get it all done at a shop, it was $1k a decade ago for just the timing belt and some Chinese pump...
If you have the right skills, the right tools, the space, and the time, it's always big savings to do it on your own, no matter what you are doing. Unfortunately most of us only have 1 or 2 of these. I got the space and time, can buy the tools, but the skills elude me.
@@modelmanjohn Watch videos man ;) You got this
@@modelmanjohn my issue is the time, I work too much to be doing a day's worth of work to a vehicle. Just traded my 2014 Jetta in with 185k that needed $600 in parts done to it, but the bill was going to cost $4500. I needed a reliable car in 2 weeks, and the work would have taken me longer than that, so I took $2500 toward a 2021 car. Is what it is when you don't have time.
The trade +down payment put me at owing exactly what the car is worth in trade, even in this car market. I call that a huge win, cause I can drive this car for a while and if I don't like it (which I don't, new Corolla's are nowhere near as good as a VW Jetta due to their switch to CVT transmissions) I can just trade it in with no loss!
@@modelmanjohn Thankfully timing belts are pretty straightforward. I'm now more skilled than I was before I started the job; the only way to get the skill is by doing the work.
@@Celician83 You time complainers are hilarious
My father replaced the headgaskets on his impreza without removing the engine, and he's not a mechanic. Hmmm...
With moderate mechanical skills, the engine out head gasket /timing belt repair is entirely possible for the home mechanic with some study and patience. I just yesterday finished an engine out head gasket replacement on my 2007 forester. It is possible on that car to do it with the engine in frame, but a more accurate and thorough job is achieved by pulling the motor.
I learned about this way back in the 80s with my 78 Subaru wagon. In those days it was possible to buy cheap - low mileage engines from Japan. It was easier and cheaper to replace the engine than fix the head gaskets. and I learned a lot.
There's a place in Washington that imports the 2.0L engines from Japan which swap in to these pretty easily. They don't have as much torque but they're more reliable, a shop/dealer around here swaps them all of the time and hasn't had any troubles.
Great videos! The EJ25 engines all did this over time, Subaru apparently fixed the coolant leaking issues from the previous engine generation, but created a new issue with oil leaks. I did a set of these on an '07 Outback we used to own when the small leak was right over the passenger side exhaust manifold such that the car constantly smelled of burning oil while driving. The recommended fix at the time was upgrading to the multilayered metal WRX head gaskets, which did the trick. In the Outbacks and Legacys there is actually just enough room to do this without pulling the engine, which is how I did it, but there are several points where the clearances are less than a half an inch to clear the frame rails, especially when getting the heads off the studs. It was a bear and not recommended if you have the equipment to pull the engine. I would bet that the Impreza engine bay is even tighter thus making engine out the only option. This was the main reason why we switched to a Honda after that.
I will never understand why Subaru of America did not released the basic Imprezas and Foresters of the ´00 with the EJ20 instead the EJ25 when they realized they had a problem with head gaskets. Those models were already offered here in Europe with the EJ20 that never suffered the problem. Difference in hp was minimal and they could have saved a lot of money and bad reputation.
You can get the heads out of this 09 Impreza without pulling the engine out. It's just a pain like you said.
One Subaru is all I want for this lifetime. I had a 2003 Subaru outback. It was a great car except everything needed to be replaced at the same time. I had the water pump, spark plugs, head gaskets, timing belt, tensioners, spark plug wires replaced at the same time. It was a big bill and it needed to be done around 115,000 miles. I needed to do it again at 245,000 miles and decided to sell it. It was a great car, very reliable, and never broke down on the road. My issue with the Subaru was that everything needed to be replaced at the same time making it expensive but after the repairs were made it was trouble free for another 100,000 miles.
That's describes Subaru's pretty well. They are extremely sensitive to maintenance. But they are up there with Honda and Toyota if you care for it
Yes, being upfront with the work involved. Report issues involved 'Duty of Care'. End of the day, customer's call.
You can rebuild a Subaru propshaft.
Did my wife's forester... pulled engine in garage, tore down, machined 1 head flat, put the turbo head gaskets on (made different/good) put it back in. What a pain just because on some years they used a bad head gasket. At least I only had material cost.
My 05 Legacy lasted to 221000 miles - She is finally showing signs of a Head Gasket failure - No worries, Time to yank the engine out, pull off the heads and send them off to the machine shop - While I am at it, i'll be replacing the clutch, pressure plate and flywheel as well as a new Timing Belt kit... Fun Project...
Long ago I had a VW Rabbit. In the worst of winter, the head gasket started leaking coolant. Yipes Too cold in the garage to do that job. So I tried a hillbilly fix. I looked up the head bolt torque and tightened up the bolts to 120% of that value. The car worked perfectly until I sold it 2 years later. Maybe only feasible when you have an iron block. Just sayin'
feasible when the headgasket is not cracked.
A Subaru with 120k miles that's already had the head gaskets and timing belt done is a better buy than one with 80k and the original head gaskets.
I fixed one last year .. but we get 1500 and 2000 cc engine ... timing belt popped ... bent all the valves ... back on the road like nothing happened.
Love your channel . Mrs Wizard is topnotch on the interior .
I have the Outback Sport version of this exact car. Mine has the same leak since 130,000mi. I put a pan in my driveway and let it leak. I top the oil up every couple weeks. Maybe a qt every 3 weeks. It's now at 202,000mi. I don't rev the motor over 4500rpm. I'm going to drive this car till it finally lets go, but for 6yrs, its been the best little car I've ever owned. And as a commenter below said, $3500 is more than reasonable factoring in all the work/parts/extraction/insertion. Keep up the good fight Car Wizard!
The gaskets were a "known issue" that I didn't know about then, My Forester is newer than that era, though. WHEW! Also, my local Sube dealer routinely undercuts book prices on bigger ticket maintenance like the timing belt-water pump-idler deal. I remember being pleasantly surprised when the time came to do it.
With the newer engines you don't get the head gasket problem but cam carrier O-Rings like to leak. Watch out for oil leaks around the heads, there's 4 little O-rings and some RTV that leaks but it's an engine-out job that comes out to more like $400 in parts. After labor it costs as much as a head gasket job, had it done on my '20 Impreza at 25k miles.
I'm shocked...Shocked!
...well...not shocked at all....the head gasket is the Subaru's Achilles heal. Not to worry its a regular maintenance item.
If out the door $3500 and fixed correctly and it can go another 200k miles it's totally worth it. The rest of the car is in great shape.
I had a 2001 Forester and at 81,000 the head gaskets were leaking coolant. There was a specialty shop near the Subaru dealer that had some former dealer employees working at the independent shop. They changed the head gaskets on both sides for $1,000, without removing the engine. They had an improved part, but at 160,000 it was leaking again. The car had some rust issues so I sold it for $1000.00. BUT, I told the new owner the car was free but he was buying two sets of wheels and tires with less than 1,000 miles on each set, summer and winter tires, plus a $300 set of service manuals. I disclosed everything that was wrong with the car and he drove it until the rear suspension let go and poked up through the body on one side at 225,000 miles. I was poking around under the car before I sold it and found I could stick my finger through the cross member over the rear axle. I found the new owner the last new replacement part in the country for around $300, but he never changed it. Some people will drive them until the wheels literally fall off. (Like on the "Just Rolled" In channel.)
The problem with this engine series head gasket is the coating that comes on it. Overtime, right around 100 thousand miles, the coating degrades and oil or coolant starts to leak over the gap leaved by the degraded coating. If the service is done with a new same model head gasket, it will start to leak all over again after another 100 thousand miles. The better way to fix it for good is using the head gasket of the 2.5 turbo, that doesn't come with the same coating.
Exactly right. Replace with the turbo MLS gasket instead and chances are you'll never have to face the issue again.
Be careful with the turbo gaskets if you've had to shave the heads--they're slightly thinner and if your heads are getting thin you can have piston-to-valve clearance issues.
The one saving grace is that the Subaru engines are fairly easy to pull. All the wiring for the motor is on one connector, for example. All the accessories are right on top too. I put the motor back in my wife's Rav4 yesterday (2azfe oil burn fix...) and that was actually more difficult than putting my EJ255 back in my Legacy GT. Engine assembly though? That's a different story.
We did the ones in our '07 when we first purchased it. Picked it up dirt cheap knowing it needed head gaskets. Seller was honest and stated the dealership he got the car from did replace the gaskets, but the job failed.
Found the dealership used the incorrect sequence head bolts. (The center bolts and outer bolts are DIFFERENT!) The job costs this much due to machine shop work that can cost about $300+ per cylinder head. Good call on the timing belt service, we did ours as well. Ours had several hairline cracks on the head gasket that failed. So that was a charge from the machine shop to ID the cracks-and then sourcing another head...etc....
By the time we finished the entire job we went down the rabbit hole about $1200 plus the cost of the car. We sourced used heads and had a local machine shop resurface, etc... It took several weeks of on/off time on the car (I'm a hobbyist shade tree type and work a full time job already) Car ran like a dream afterwards!
Drove it around for several years before the NYS (or PRNY as Eric O calls it) road salt killed the undercarriage. Would I buy another one? IF it was dirt cheap and zero rust under it.
For the ones saying do the job with the engine in the car- All it takes is a few rusted up bolts in the valve cover-And you'll wish you had pulled it out. This car had the easiest engine to remove that I've ever done. The time spent pulling it, was time not wasted beating my knuckles apart.
I'm pulling the engine on mine to do all this work myself, I learned pretty early on that Subarus are excellent cars, so long as you're going to do the work yourself
A friend of mine use to be a Subaru mechanic. He was telling me they use to charge $5000 Canadian to do the head gasket because it was an engine out situation. Mr Subaru on his TH-cam channel backs up the engine out repair. And he also says to get the triple layer metal gasket and not the graphite coated one.
What not many folks know is that you can get these NA Subaru engines out in under an hour lol
@@stevemartegani What fewer know is you can drop the entire front cradle, engine, trans and all pretty easily really, and it lets you put everything back together with little fuss.
@@stevemartegani Yeah, those are simple to work on. Everybody wants to want to charge a small fortune on everything nowadays.
The neighbor brought her outback into the dealer. They wanted $1700 for 2 front hub bearings, tie rod ends and an alignment🤣. She brought it in for an oil leak in which they called valve cover gaskets, but was clearly the rear main🤨
5000$cad is about 3500$usd
@@Oldbmwr100rs If you have a lift...
Interestingly, just now I'm doing the head and cylinder block on my STI. In our country, work with spare parts costs $ 2,000, including crankshaft bearings, cylinder rings and milling of all planes of heads and the block itself. Which, by the way, must be done, otherwise all the work is useless. It all makes sense if you have STI or WRX at least. On NA motors, I would find a block in a junkyard and put it in...
I've seen a subaru tech recommend using the turbo head gasket set in all 2.5 liter engines due to a better design. Local subaru shops quote 2500 for the job.
My friend keeps talking about buying a Subie and for this exact reason, I keep discouraging her. Thank you for your compassion and honesty in letting them know that sometimes (like in some of your other videos) it's not worth dumping money into a vehicle.
As long as she gets one with the 2.0 instead of the 2.5 she should be good. The 2.5s were primarily the ones with head gasket issues.
That's about the right mileage! I had the head gaskets replaced in my '07 Legacy at around 93k miles. The second set of gaskets are leaking now at 173k. Not planning on replacing 'em again - I think the 'ol Legacy is in its twilight years. (or months!)
Quick note: the replacement headgaskets we would use at my old Subaru shop were the same headgaskets that were on the WRX'S of whichever generation the Subaru that came in was. They WRX headgaskets are double-finned, as opposed to the single-finned headgaskets on the N/A boxer engines. They mount exactly the same, and many other tech swore the WRX headgaskets were a life-long fix.
Lol you didn’t get a wrx head gasket because the cooling passages are different friend. What you got is the Subaru MLS head gasket which is what Subaru should have installed to begin with but they decided to cut cost and use the graphite ones. The MLS hgs will never fail
The problem isn’t the gasket. The issue is using only 6 bolts to hold a cylinder head on.
wrx head gasket with arp studs at about 100 foot pounds the block will crack before the hg. Anyone pulling the head on an ej25 and not putting studs is crazy
@@dirtypeanut6590 It is tho, EJ20 and 22 dont have this issue at all.
@@Kacpa2 This engine was never meant to be a 2.5 liter. Boring them out didn't leave enough meat for the head gaskets. That's why the 2.0's were more reliable. I suspect it's why subaru returned to 2.0 before the re-design. They're just shitty engines. Not sure about the 2.4s.
When I graduated from high school in the early 1980s, a good friend of mine had a 1973 D/L 2-door coupe with headgasket issues. His mother had a D/L 4-door and his dad had a 4-wd wagon, all with headgasket issues. Their fix was to fabricate headgaskets out of used beer cans. I think Ivan Temnykh with Pine Hollow Diagnostics said it best at the end of one of his videos. He asked his wife what she would replace her Nissan Rogue with and she said a Subaru Forrester. He reminded her of the leaky headgaskets. Of course, it was the video in which he had just replaced the CVT; of which Nissan has had a bad run of lately. With 454,000 miles, it looks like the ol' Marquis will need to run forever. Great video!
My buddy who is a Subaru tech does all my Subaru head gaskets, I supply the 200 dollar fel pro kit and he charges me 500 bucks to do them. Pays to know someone who only does Subaru. However. If the vehicle over heats, then the heads need to be resurfaced. But it’s straight forward if it never over heated.
I've seen this scenario all too many times. My Aunt blew the head gaskets on her former 2010 Outback and she was also quoted $3500 to fix her car. It wasn't worth it, if she got into a wreck they'd give her the value of the car and the rest is lit on fire. You burned all that money. I told her no don't do it! So she upgraded to a new Rav-4. My mom has been driving subarus since 1994 and so I'm very familiar with the head gaskets. Thankfully it has not happened to my mom and she actually bought her current 2013 Outback off lease and that was the year that subaru upgraded their head gasket materials and that problem went away by the time she got her current car.
Trying to get a decent used car these days you will get bent over & violated without lube or a spit. Lol $3500 to keep an otherwise good vehicle going is far cheaper then a roughly $1000 a month car payment. Cars cost money. You will never get what you payed for them. It's best to except this fact of life, but you might be able to avoid over paying for a used car until the market eventually settles down.
Not to mention that any time you pull heads, it's always strongly suggested to have the heads machined. If not you could still have the same problem as soon as you put it back together. I've actually already been through this process. This one is a slightly different model of engine than the one you see. It's the FB25. An N/A 2.5 DOHC. Which is the successor to the EJ series of engine. And had a different failure. The connecting rod bearing on cylinder 1 was trashed because of the 2 tubes of RTV they used from the factory to seal every surface that could be sealed. A piece of it had came loose and fell into the pil pan, which then got sucked up into the oil pickup and liquified due to heat. Then it distributed itself into the engine bearings. This engine also has an aluminum front timing cover with the oil pump built in to it. Which also had to be replaced because of the damage that was already caused from the bearing material. It got the works. New bearings, fresh pistons/rings, new timing chains/tensioners, and all new seals. I used significantly less RTV than the factory did to hopefully not have the same issue as it did from the factory. It also had significant valve guide wear and valve seat damage due to carbon buildup. It has slightly more miles than this one has with a different kind of failure. But it's still been quite expensive. The front cover alone was several hundred dollars, plus everything else. It's taken me a lot longer than it should've because of having to wait for all these parts ordered offline and the machine work. So know what you're getting yourself into before buying a subaru. I'd say that 90% of the ones you'd see when trying to buy a used one has already had some kind of engine failure that the owner doesn't want to sink money into. They're really nice cars. But do require a bit more care and maintenance to get the same kind of longevity as other brands. It's imperative you keep up on your services or you'll end up as another subaru statistic
I am scared away from them because I read the Edmunds owner reviews on some models of outback 2008-2011 range and a lot seem very negative. Like brake light wiring deteriorating and a lot of people were angry about the head gasket. But car wizard recommend Subaru though
@@zzoinks I'm not trying to turn anyone away from getting one. It's just that you have to be aware of what you could be getting yourself into when buying one. Especially a used one. The Impreza's especially. Other than that, if you're looking to buy one I'd budget in however much it's going to cost to have a fresh rebuild when you get it. So as long as you keep up on maintenance it's going to last a good while
You're the BEST Wizard - life is Good - all machines need repair over time.
I have a 2011 same car heads were leaking top of engine way worse of a leak about 1/2 quart per gas fill up. Dealership 1 year ago told me 6,200 to 7,000 dollars. Me and my fiend did a rebuild on it for about 1,200 all together with milled/resurfaced heads from another shop. Getting the motor out with help took about 2 1/2 hours taking it apart and cleaning it and rebuild was a whole other story. Did it about a year ago no leaks yet did upgrade to the MLS head gaskets used in the WRX. Changed oil, coolant, timing belt and every other seal/gasket we could do. So far so good!
I bought a beater '97 Outback a few years back to play with. I knew it was already mechanically totalled, shot clutch pack and no history on the head gaskets, but it was a remarkably nice car. I even upgraded the stereo. It fit the stereotype of a Subaru, a neat engine and trick AWD driveline with the rest of the car thrown in for free.
I shook my head when I looked under the hood and thought WTF?! when I bought the Haynes manual...
It does my heart good to see a good and honest assessment of a major repair. Keep up the great work, Wizard!
I love subaru flat 4 engines, the 2014 forester i have just has a minor oil burn, not bad enough to get fixed via warranty.
Those impreza hatches are just gorgeous in design.
With what cars are still selling for, very expensive repairs are still worth it for a lot of situations. I just put $1200 into my ‘08 police interceptor - new gas tank, fuel pump, some fuel lines etc. it’s well worth it.
If you can’t afford a new car (pay cash and not hurt your finances to speak of) then repairing is the way to go. In my situation I can afford to buy new and sell on the cusp of repairs. This is usually in the 150k highway mile range and 5 years.
Friend of mine just dumped $2k into his car. Couple hub bearings, 4 tires, timing kit, valve cover gasket/plugs, oil change, filters. Well worth it though since the car is old, but clean and paid off.
Because it has two head gaskets on opposite sides of the engine. They are so easy to work on. I’ve rebuilt several.
I saw a guy on youtube remove those engine less than an hour
@@safffff1000 let's be honest. That guy has probably been removing these engines for years and has done it a 100 times.
The normal person it would take a LOT longer.
@@SuperNova23333 actually it doesn’t take that long to remove these. I actually didn’t use my Cherry picker. Once you get the intake off and the a/c compressor and alternator, I just picked it up bare handed.
8:52 Loved the reference! Cheers from Brazil!
I live in New England and was looking for a awd for wife, checked a few Subarus and heard about the head gasket problem, man I’m so happy that we bought a crv instead
The timing belt is going to grenade the engine before that leak gets bad enough.
I been a Senior Master for Subaru for many years and honestly i do head gaskets very often and the reality is that you don't need to pull the engine to do the repair, it can be done on the vehicle. All you need is a set of turbo head gaskets and the leak would be fix for good, normally takes around 6 hours to do the job,very straight forward, now it is expensive,no doubt. You're going to be on the 3 thousands dollar mark but the majority is labor the parts are not that expensive.
I like how people think a major engine repair isn't going to cost much. 😂
Wizard!! For $3500 investment, you would have another car to put over 100k on the clock! You cant buy anything for that price that will last as long!
The price you quoted I think is completely reasonable I had to do this on an old WRX I had , cuz there was so much work involved just to do the head gaskets replaced all the spark plugs water pump things like that.
ej255 is different, you need to pull the motor on those, these ej253 engines are easily done in car.
The head gasket issue really wasn't a problem in the turbo engines because they used different gaskets. Sucks it happened to yours.
@@dcinhere yeah it was a bit of a shock and a nightmare but it was a good opportunity to do a really good overhaul on the engine. Not to mention putting a new clutch in as well!
Northeast Subaru dealer tech here. I can't remember our exact parts and labor quote but it's at least $2,500 including 14 hours labor. If anyone would like I can show the full itemized parts list, it's a two pager.
I will say some do the job in-car by tilting the block and squeezing the heads out.. but a lot of error for debris can happen during re-install.
The head bolts are reusable! It's very rare to need new head bolts. Up here however we charge for new valve covers because the bolts rust out and the cover needs to be broken off by a hammer and chissel.
But on a side note, this car would sell for $4-7k AS-IS up here because or no rust(this rust would be seen year 2 in NY). this amount of external head gasket "seepeage" as we call it is super light. Most owners wait until it is smoking off the exhaust.
2500 is a steal tbh
@@Realwessharpe I would guess it's more if I saw the full bill with taxes.
Thank you for the videos. I can't wait to see how good the Cadillac turns out 👍👍
You can also remove the heads in the car especially on the timing belt ones you just have to leave the bolts in the head while you pull the head you have enough room to loosen the bolts so they're not in the block but leave them in the head
I've done it both ways a bunch of times. Easier to just pull the engine. Usually have the engine out in a couple of hours. I did 3 of them last month
Thank you Wizard and Mrs. From Minnestota, 6 months of winter (getting 1/2 foot today), Subaru's are common. Headgasket issues w/ Subaru's, more common on 6cy vs 4cy, certain years?
Oil leak near exhaust 🔥zoinks. Difficult for the customer to comprehend, costs are 10% parts and 90% service time.
6-cylinder were not known for the problem. Pre-2011 non-turbo 2.5L 4-cylinders.
@@midwest_encyclopedic Thanks for the tip. Know it is not the flat head engine design as VW and Porsche have it figured out.
just a heads up u can do that job with the engine in the car but its still every bit of 15 hours. when if you unbolt the exhaust u also remove the bolts on the motor mounts and then start on the top half. After removing the intake and timing belt, u can jack up the engine about 1 inch so u can tilt the block side to side ever so slightly, and once u loosen the bolts for the heads completely, u can then slide them out till they almost contact the frame and the head will lift right out. valve covers off slide the bolts to the frame and then lift :)
Taking out engine - 4 hours ( max), remove heads - 1 hour (max). one day to clean everything, resurface the heads. One day to put everything back, adjust valves and if lucky start the car.
$3500 vs paying $45,000 is a no brainer. Also I'd just apply silicone every 30 days to the bottom since it isn't that hard to do.
You do need to pull the exhaust to get a clean view of the gasket area, but yes, way easier than dumping money into it if you can repair it yourself.
Good info overall but I do want to point out that it's pretty easy to remove the head bolts/heads on an NA 2.5L without getting the engine out, done it on a few cars. Having the engine out can be nice, but not at all required for the sohc 2.5s and the timing belt service is easily done as you put everything back together.
Its really tight though, sometimes just easier having the engine out to fix anything else.
Truth , I've done it without engine removal also
I did 2 without removing the engines when I first started 4 years ago. But I can remove the engine in an hour so it makes it easier. Also can upsale a total reseal too. Easy to take out and reinstall
Loosen engine mounts +top stay, I got this coming up, I think one side up then the other and grill rad thing out for access
There is a guy named Subaru Mike who has a number of videos doing these gaskets and rebuilds. He is a wealth of knowledge.
When I had my 2003 Forester head gasket done, I had the water pump replaced, spark plugs, heads cleaned and valves ground done in a private shop. The total was half the dealer cost just for the head gaskets. The work done by the private shop lasted until I trade the car after many years.
In my experience most Subaru head gasket issues are caused by overheating. Blown hoses, busted radiator, cooling fan issues, thermostat , water pump or rad cap.🤷♂️
My winter beater is a 2007 Forester N/A. With just over 200,000kms I’m shocked it runs as good as it does. I’ve had it for years and drove it halfway across Canada and back. No head gasket issues (yet) but there is an incredible amount of blow by. If it wasn’t for that and the rust…so much rust, it might be worth saving. It’s an absolute beast in the snow, I definitely will be considering getting another one in the near future.
Very reasonable guidance for the customer. The details matter for an issue like this & there are many good reasons to delay. Maybe they can get 3 more years before the leak deteriorates. There is about a 3% chance they'll be in an accident in that time, which negates the need for the repair. And if the accident is the fault of the other person, their insurance or the customer's uninsured coverage will pay them the value.
I had a subaru dealer once tell me that using all the antifreeze every 900 miles was "normal antifreeze consumption"
Subaru with head gasket issues??? No 😆
I picked up my 2013 Taurus. And at the first oil change they told me it needed a battery. It was still rocking a working 2013 motorcraft factory battery somehow. An 8 year old battery at the time
I have a 2001 Forester. Had a small head gasket leak (coolant leaking to the outside, air leaking in and collecting around the thermostat, causing overheating). I drilled 3 tiny holes in the thermostat flange to allow the air to escape. Worked like a charm. Temp fix but it lasted for many thousands of miles.
i wish i knew you sooner so as to learn in my apprenticeship. Good job Wizard!
I agree to fix it RIGHT is best however we had a similar leak in an old Civic and we did what Scotty suggested the ATP reseal. It worked as he promised HOWEVER you have to add a $15 bottle every time you do oil change or else the leak will return. Again this is for SMALL leaks and not to take the place of a head gasket job but it will keep oil in your engine and not hurt or gum up anything as far as I know until you’re better prepared to address what has got to be done as far as fixing it right!
There are no mechanics in a bottle but this Will relatively harmlessly get you by.
Doing just about anything Scotty says is a flip of a coin at best.
@@compasteedee yeah but that and the ozone generator to eliminate odors were pretty solid suggestions
$3500 for another 100k on a pretty rust free Subie? score!
This is one of those videos where I actually would donate to a go-fund me for them. Timing, kids, family, good condition car seem worth it.
If it does not overheat, also no major leak, why not just keep driving and check/add engine oil weekly... It can run another 10 years possibly.
That's actually not a bad price. The car is in good shape, have it pulled and have everything replaced like you said. Get another 100k+ miles out of it. Sure beats trading it in, getting nothing for it and then having to make new car payments.
I've sealed a transfer case leak on a 4x4 Ranger with gear oil silicone and it's not leaked in years. Just make sure you drain the fluid, clean and let it dry for a 2-3 days before applying the silicone, then let the silicone dry for another couple days before filling. Worked like a champ
Transfer case is not under pressure like a cooling system is.
@@jefferyepstein9210 But it's an oil leak, not coolant. And I doubt there's much external pressure if it's a small leak. Regardless it's worth a try imo
@@TTime685
I meant oil and there is still pressure. Worth a try as a temporary fix but that's it.
You’d have to loosen the head bolts and compromise the integrity of the entire head gasket to get silicon in there, unless your talking about a surface coat outside where it’s leaking.
@@Dozav7 Yes, just coat the mating cracks/surface best as possible. But you have to use the proper silicone and has to be completely clean and dry for it to stick. Permatex makes a gear oil silicone that works great. Not sure how well it would work with motor oil though. However like I said, it's worth a try if you don't want oil leaking all over ppls driveways..
I was able to do my 05 legacy and 07 outback with the engine in the car but took my heads to a machine shop to check for flatness. They were flat so they cleaned them and checked the valve seals
I had my head gasket replaced on my 2007 Subaru Forester with 120K miles on it, and I am glad that I did. It was worth it to me to pay for the fix relative to buying another used one which would be at least $5000 with a fixed headgasket and replaced timing belt etc., but somedays it does feel like a money pit as I had to replace the exhaust, starter, and rad as well in the last year, but I really like the way it handles, so I will probably keep fixing it for a good while yet, hoping to hit 300K on it before it goes to the scrap yard.
The thing is these engines run like new after this job because the valves are adjusted back to spec. I had it done on my '01 Forester at 130K miles. Same symptom, oil leaking on one side.