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Does Socket Type & Weight Affect Impact Power? Quick Test 5
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 เม.ย. 2021
- Our lifetime of TOOL RANKINGS torquetestchan...
Axle nut sockets we use: amzn.to/2P4aTEz . The general thinking is socket size or weight of any given hex size will reduce or increase your impact wrench power if you step up or down in mass. But is their a ceiling to this? If the impact wrench is average power and the socket is on the large end of the scale, does it make a difference? Do smaller socket sizes? Let's find out.
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Test the difference between the honda crankbolt weighted socket and a normal inpact socket
Deal. IR makes a 24mm that will fit the new smaller hex test set-up. We'll buy one.
Edit: For some reason that socket is like $80. Oh well, we need a large custom bolt that wont snap or stretch so in the cart it goes. We'd like to use a thick wall socket as well, but the only 15/16 or 24mm we could find is model # 303-1438 and it's 3/4" drive. Can't find a 1/2" drive version that size.
I've always wondered just how hard they hit, my aircat with a regular impact socket won't touch a honda balancer bolt, but the lisle socket has a 100% success rate.
Came to the comments to say this exact thing
The weird IR sockets with the ring have to be doing something, since they’ll take off those bolts like they were hand tight.
@@TorqueTestChannel much less expensive too
On behalf of my fellow torque testies I'd like to thank you for your no bs testing. Very helpful.
Never met a testie I didn't like
@@TorqueTestChannel Giggity!
@@Giggiyygoo I..I love this. This was the perfect comment.
@@Ferkle871 and the perfect name lol
I straight out ducking love you. It's amazing how you test and respond to your community. It's rare in these days to be so alert and wholesome to us, your viewers. I've been here for a while and it's literally incredible how you test and respond to our ideas. Please keep up the good work and BTW you ARE the Project Farm of impact drivers, no one can reach you the water in this category.
Keep up your testing and I hope you'll become an 1M+ subscribed channel
Sadly I'm missing Bosch Impact tools but I understand that they are mostly produced and sold in the German/European market only and therefore irrelevant.
Hopefully as we brach out to other tool tests we're prototyping we'll be tops in those categories as well some day. We'll add Bosch in the coming months just for you (no joke)
@@TorqueTestChannel Have you been tested those “Ingersoll Rand Power Socket’s”? They claim to have +50% more torque.. 🧐 would be interesting to see how they perform.
@@TorqueTestChannel thats really nice 👌
*_The Ugga Dugga Channel_*
The ugga dugga daddy would frown upon us for taking the name!
Overwatch spray checks out, this is the only one I use lol
Have you tried torque sticks? See if they actually stop your impact at the torque there for?
I second this!
They do actually work. I put a 65 ft lb torque stick on the end of a torque wrench set to 100 ft lbs. The torque stick would just bend when trying to torque the lugnut, and when I let go it went back to it's original shape
Agree
I've seen that lisle socket for crank bolts and it definitely makes a difference. Super thick wall thickness.
Guy I know bought the snapon in a 19. Apparently a certain crank bolt I believe on a Honda he's always needed his 5' breaker. Apparently that socket got it right off on his Milwaukee 1/2
@@home541_ yes have seen this on many videos on you tube. The socket is necessary
@@kartboarder22g17 I was speaking from first hand experience.
@@home541_ yeah good too know. I might buy a honda again in the future.
I own the Milwaukee M18 High Torque, and i have snapped a grade 8 coarse thread 5/8" frame bolt, a brand new one, with it. (Those have a a 1&1/16" head on the bolt for anyone wondering) I do believe i was using my deep well at the time, the threads were lubed, and on the standard 5.0AH battery the High Torque comes with on a full, or basically full, charge. I believe the bolt was 2.5" in length. After removing rust jack that had snapped the previous bolt, i was bolting a bracket back on to frame rail and wanting to make sure they were as tight as possible i ended up snapping the bolt.
You said you were going to look at smaller stuff in the future, so i figured I'd share my story of the largest bolt I've broken with my High Torque
Every time i come watch a new vid you have like 1k more subs. This channel is going to be huge soon, glad to have been among the first 10k
400k now
Test the ingersoll rand power sockets next! The ones with the "power ring" S64M19L
You got it. Couple weeks
Good call! I'd forgotten about those.
Thanks guys! I've always been curious if those actually do what they claim. Also I have a bunch of impacts/ratchets I'd be willing to loan you guys for videos.
Comment for algorithm. Love this channel, keep it up!
Do a comparison on drive size adapters...if you havent already.
You got it
Nice idea! Also test the standard adapter that you see but also can you test the adapter that fits over the anvil without extending out away from the tool?
@@brucelee64485 can you tell me what these low profile adaptors are and who makes them. Thanks in advance.
@@MarkDaviesThailand Check out the Grey Pneumatic socket adapters part number 103RA low profile socket adapters. They fit right over the anvil of the impact gun and scale the anvil up to the next size.
@@brucelee64485 Hi Matt. Thank you very much for the thought. Unfortunately those increase drive size: I am looking for a very low profile impact adaptor - specifically, to take a 1/2 Milwaukee m12 stubby from 1/2 male down to 3/8 male.
I paused the video at like seven seconds saw this on another channel the guy said weight does matter, you guys always look at the comments for sure great videos and information. Now on to the video.
As a truck tech I'm excited for when you guys start testing 3/4" and 1" guns
THIS CHANNEL IS THE BEST........I CAN WATCH YOUR VIDEOS ALL DAY.
I’ve stepped down 3/4 inch socket to a 1/2 inch socket. Using a deep well. With the adapter in impact grade. The amount of mass greatly makes a difference. Taking off Honda and Toyota crank bolts are no longer an issue.
Testing torque sticks would be interesting for sure. I like the idea of testing the thin wall protective sockets because I swear I can tell a difference in power. Also some flip lug nut sockets wouldn't hurt.
I second this
Interesting results. I've always been taught that a deep socket decreases your torque because, like and extension, it will give a little spring effect. But maybe the spring effect and the added weight cancel each other out? The deep thin walled socket would be a good test on that hypothesis as it doesn't have the weight behind it.
There is a difference, and it's extremely apparent when you look at everyone trying to remove crank pully bolts from Honda's. It's a standard 19mm bolt torqued to infinity, and lots of guys with Milwaukee, DeWalt, SnapOn 1/2" high torque cordless (as well as pneumatic) impacts can't remove them. Once you use the "specialty" 19mm socket (i.e. one that is about 5x the weight of a standard 19mm, aka the Lisle 77080) it will spin right off.
I think the difference in weight needs to be more extreme than what you're trying here though. I'm not a rocket surgeon though.
Good videos. I like the channel a lot.
We run into them too. It's not a standard 19mm, it's 16mm fine threads and 19mm hex size, which is non-standard sizing. But that very real difference is seen on that small bolt and socket normally, just showing here with 38mm sockets the difference is not so clearly seen. Which is what we wanted in order to test and compare with our new 3/8" sockets.
I think a good follow up test for this is to be able to somehow measure the "break away" torque of each type of socket rather than the out max torque. After all, most of us are looking for the hardest initial breakaway rather than anything else. After all, it's breaking the fastener free that is the issue 90% of the time
If possible can you test 19mm impact vs thick one 19mm from lisle 77080( Honda crank bolt special socket) to see how much different. Air impact and regular socket won’t able to move the crank bolt but the thick will do. Thanks
I bought one, but haven’t had to use it yet. It’s a heavy sucker.
What about the newer SUPER heavy, very thick-wall sockets they sell now, to remove things like the infamous - very difficult to break loose Honda 19 mm crankshaft bolt. Allegedly using it, over a standard impact socket, will break the bolt loose every time. It would seem that the ONLY thing different, is ---- the weight of the socket. Would be great to get your take on it.
I would like to see that test too. I own the Lisle 77080 19m socket and have used it to successfully to remove Honda crankshaft bolts that a standard 19mm socket could not. Ingersoll Rand makes a socket for the same purpose but with a different design. The IR S64M19L-PS1 socket does not look as heavy, but it has a large diameter ring that is concentric with the socket body. The ring gives it a high moment of inertia, which, rather than mass per se, is the critical factor in the effectiveness of these sockets. It would be nice to see a comparison of these sockets vs. a standard 19mm socket.
Dont forget those bomb Honda crank pulley sockets with the flywheel ring on them.
Imagine if you used those IR sockets with the funny design. They would make all that power
OTC also makes a super thick 19mm socket. If you've ever seen the inside of a Honda crank pully holder tool, it's designed to fit in the middle.
@@dafirnz www.ebay.com/itm/190560572269 this one?
@@FromThe3PointLine He talking about the crank bolt sockets, Tho I don't know of OTC makin any. CTA makes them as well but the lisel 77080 is the go to for the19mm on hondas. .
I use a 1/4in dewalt DCF787 for small engine repair. To my surprise it took off a 32mm bolt faster than a 9/16 push mower blade bolt. weight really does matter. Cant wait to see the test with the 15/16 sockets.
A cheap way to test a heavier socket would be to melt some lead or wheel weight inside a deep socket. You could fill it up leaving only enough room for the anvil and bolt head.
We've already now bought about $200 in different socket types to see if we can measure this dynamic torque difference
After using many chrome sockets ... they normally don't explode they typically start to crack and you'll see it... it takes 20-30 bolts and alot of impacting at high torque however you need to stop once you see a crack if you have to use one
Although your quick test here didn't prove much, If you look at the success rate with those thicker and heavier Honda crankshaft bolt impact sockets, there's got to be something to socket's mass that enables a regular impact to succeed when it fails with a regular impact socket on the same crankshaft bolt. Thanks for sharing, keep up the great work.
The answer would be dynamic torque (power per blow). We're planning on seeing if we can see that difference on the curve with new and different sockets types at this smaller hex (and mass) size
I kinda figured it was like the extension thing bigger is worse because there is slop on the 1/2 drive so it's not really on the anvil side it's just more mass on the bolt side
Did not see that one coming. Not at all lining up with my personal (and often very flawed) experience of stuff not coming off at all, then either removing an extension or using a heavier socket it comes right off. Think its just because the 38mm socket is so large and rigid, or does it have to do with the work piece being this large?
You guys doing a very nice job testing these things though!
We think its because of these large 38mm socket sizes, and there's maybe a size ceiling to this effect. To be honest we don't know the answer yet, or if we can even clearly see dynamic torque (force of each blow being higher) on our graphs yet for certain. We will find out with you
I'm sticking around, I'm staying tune and O am waiting for you guys👍🏼
Could you do a test for torque loss for ill fitting sockets? For example 1 5/16" (33.34) to loosen a 33mm nut, this could approximate torque loss for a adjustable wrench.
Sometimes you're out in the field and you just don't have the right size, or you only have fractional when the machine has metric fasteners.
Obviously this risks rounding the fastener, but a test would be great.
I work a tire shop and I think the weight does have alot to do with it but equally as much the fit. Sometimes a 22mm imoact socker from like Cp wont budge the lug nut but when i get the shorter heavier reg 22mm snap on socket it breaks loose right away it also has less play in it
So there was a video recently of a guy trying to remove a crank bolt from a Subaru engine, using an impact gun and a thin wall chrome socket. The bolt wouldn't budge. Then he tried it with a large impact socket and it came right off no problem.
Love the channel! I love the graphs
I find that when a lugnut won't come loose with say a 21mm deep socket, a 21mm shallow socket can get it with no problem. I think its a torsion thing. I know it works most of the time.
Hey TTC I know this is a bit of a stretch but I think it would be cool to see how much battery decay effects torque. Like a battery that has gone through 100-200-300 charge cycles vs a newish battery.
I've been switching over to Wright Tools for impact sockets, as they seem to have thicker walls and are just in general a tad bit heavier.
The only downside is that the broaching is a lot deeper which is not ideal in some situations. Oh, also I can imagine that the thicker wall might not do so well in some places.
I love my wright grip combo wrench’s, it’s nice to have usa made products that aren’t snap on prices
@@FishFind3000 Earlier this year, I purchased the 958 set. I love them, they feel nice in my hand, I just wish they offered longer wrenches as well as that standard length.
It's certainly got me interested in buying more from them.
I'm still going to buy Snap-On when Wright doesn't offer what I am looking for... Like long wrenches, or modern style racheting box end wrenches.
Using my 2767 I just blew up my normal 17mm wheel socket, then a normal 17mm deep impact socket, then a shallow but relatively thick walled chrome socket, and then broke the bolt with the OE special socket with a 4’ long 3/4” breaker bar. Still didn’t get the damn bolt off!
The chrome flaked off the few 1/2" drive chromed sockets I've used with air impacts to remove lug nuts.
Can you test those torque multipliers. The ones with gear reduction that claims to double the torque
Aren't those supposed to be use with a bar
@@BIGSMOKE-bl2lq you realise his loadcell can be torqued with anything that fits in the socket right?
Would love to see the Hitachi 36v 1/2" tested. Had one of their real early brushed ones back in our old shop shop before lithium batteries and the thing was an absolute beast, gave our CP air gun a run for its money and she was no slouch and one a whopping big compressor that could feed her some serious juice.
I've noticed a difference between a long socket vs a short socket with a 200ft lb gun. Sometimes it was the difference between breaking the bolt loose or not. Short socket always beat out the long one.
this is interesting i think the girth around female ends make the difference. socket flexs in use the part that the bolt goes into and the advil end thicken those parts by 50 % no flex just braking bolts loose with less power.
The theory most people have is I think that heavier hammer equals heavier blows. However, the hammer is not the socket, it's a pneumatically driven thing inside the gun. That hammer does not change and it has to deal with more and more inertia the heavier the socket. Whatever force is transferred to the socket can then be transferred to the bolt.
I might be mistaken but I thought Ingersoll specifically designed sockets to give you more power when it comes to using them on an impact? I can't think of the name off the top of my head but I remember them being advertised as making a big difference I have a ring around the socket
Hi. Great job. Can I use the excerpts to explain the difference between cold and hot working steel tools?
Greetings from Poland 🇵🇱
Good test to see the functionality of SK's flex zone sockets compared to standard sockets.
Great content guys.
Have you seen the ingersoll Rand power socket. There's like a weighted wheel on the outside of the socket. It would be interesting to see it tested.
This is an awsome channel
Hey, thanks!
What I have noticed is the less lash or wiggle room between the socket and the bolt the more power it will put out
I always use my Stanley chrome sockets in my impact driver not impact wrench and haven't damaged a single one but I broke a bunch of the adapters. I spent more in adapters than and impact wrench would cost
First time viewer of your channel. My 38MM TekTon deep impact socket does not look like your 38MM TekTon deep impact socket.
I have a genuine m18 first gen battery I’d be happy to send your way if you want to make a video showing a older well used battery vs a new high output if you want
Please test the IR power sockets that are wieghted like a flywheel. They hit HARD!
Would love to see ya test long anvil 1” tire guns, I’ve got a harbor freight 1” tire gun that I’ve been abusing for years and refuses to die. Also used the IR titanium and love that.
So... what if a socket fits looser on a faster than a different brand of socket? Would that looseness provide extra space for the socket to recoil and then “wind” it’s mass up for another hit? Sorta like bouncing a ball in between two tennis rackets kinda 🤔 maybe that has a big effect on how a socket performs too. Idk
I think its because as you use a heavier socket, it imparts more force, but since it's heavier and has more inertia, it also gets accelerated less than a lighter socket so the two factors even out
I've seen southmain use a heavy wall socket to remove axle nuts I think it was big thick wall for added mass
Most of the time you can take a axle nut off with a Hammer and chisel cause it's all the way tight half turn back then lock ring and jam nut
Weight has little due to torque transfer... the answer is rigidity... even going as far as how well _you_ are holding the impact straight, stable and pushing into the fastener.
The likely reason there is no difference between the socket weights and power capabilities is because they don't have any distance to rotate. It's essentially like hitting something with a 6 oz hammer and only getting 1/4" of swing, versus a 24 oz hammer, with the same amount of swing. There's not going to be a significant chance in effective power.
Where you'll likely see the difference is in tightening, where the socket has the rotational power to make a difference. And even then, it will only make a significant difference on the first solid hit, when it's got the most energy built up. Subsequent hits will have diminishing effect, due to far less rotational mass
What makes the difference in the power of an impact is the internal rotating hammer on the gun. The heavier that is, the more torque it will be able to impart on the fastener.
Could you try breaking that chrome socket with a higher rated impact wrench?
Most large chrome sockets are extremely hard to break.
It wouldn't break from a Ridgid high torque, ir 2235timax or bigger Matco MT2779. Sockets at this size dont seem to fail so easy. Chrome crv sockets are harder, but with thick enough walls it equals out it seems. Need to nuke a 15/16" next.
They will generally just split along one of the hex corners where the metal is thinnest and then spin on the nut. Only after extended use and I've never had one shatter.
@@TorqueTestChannel Thanks for the reply
@@andrews8722 Good to know I have a set of large 1" sockets which I use on my DCF899 impact wrench.
I'd like to see you test how much it takes to crack some chrome sockets. Maybe do a brand comparison.
@torque test channel I have a Mikita ½" drive brushless impact (XWT08Z) and an Ingersoll Rand ½" air impact (2235timax) if you are interested in using them in testing.
Test idea: keep adding mass to a given socket size and testing how much (if any) additional torque is able to be produced. And if so, continue until we see diminished returns.
Thank you for another fantastic video! 🙏
Can you test The Ingersoll Rand 2135QXPA impact ?
Bro this channel is legit lol that one like is the guy dislike must be the guy that uses chrome for impacts
Socket stiffness is the factor IMO. It's imperfectly correlated with weight. A long extension has a lot of weight, but it has low stiffness, hence limits energy transfer.
Please try this with a smaller impact. Like a compact Milwaukee, or the mid torque DeWalt. Something that the average joe has in their garage for their car. Also, please test the HEAVY Honda crankshaft bolt socket, vs a normal deepwell impact socket of the same size. Those are available at AutoZone, I know that for a fact.
Can you test 2 impacts of the same model but one of them has the extended anvil and compare the results?
Will do!
Love this channel!
My theory is that weighted sockets aren't going to provide any real benefit. The weight that matters is the weight of the hammer in the impact wrench. The socket's job is to transfer that impact energy efficiently, which basically just means being as hard as possible without becoming brittle. Heavier sockets may be harder and transfer the energy better, but it is not due to the weight itself. The weight of the socket is mostly unimportant.
I really love your videos and the testing you're doing. But not coming from the USA, it would be really helpful to have the torque and pressure readings in metric units. You could reach a much bigger audience by doing so. Keep up the good work!
There would have to be a ceiling on the weight of a socket before there’s a drop off because the greater the mass, the more force it takes to move it. Would be great to see the approximate threshold for that
Try a test where you let the gun rattle as normal and one where you twist the socket with your hand to take up the slack/ backlash. That's an old wives/techs tale I'd love to see buried or confirmed!
Is there a video showing this? Never heard of the myth
I've used that trick successfully several times removing lug nuts with my old IR W360 battery gun. But just because it works doesn't mean it's safe. Could end badly on a fast and powerful gun, especially if you're wearing gloves......
Good test!
I'd like to see the test of thin wall sockets and how exact torque sticks are working. Thx in advance. Regards from germany
Cool video but there so little difference in the weights. Honda aside, more weight takes more energy to start its inertia each strike.
Love your stuff! I need to see a deep impact socket comparison! How much harder does USA hit??
Thank you 🌞
So the reason the shallow does the same as the deep is because while it lose mass it is closer to the anvil which means more beans are transferred
Do you recommend any particular socket brands for a 1” drive ratchet?
I've noticed that my 1/2 inch impact can put down more power with a 3/4 inch drive socket than it can with a 1/2 inch of the same size so I'd be curious to see that done. Specifically with a traditional 1/2 to 3/4 adapter vs a low profile adapter like the grey pneumatic 103RA set. I've put my impact on a bolt with a 30mm 1/2 inch socket and it turned some and stopped, then I used a 3/4 socket with the low profile adapter and it removed it so I know there's something to the theory but I'd be curious to see it actually scientifically tested. Next time I do a head gasket on an ISX cummins I'll be testing my 1/2 inch 24mm vs a 3/4 24mm with both styles of adapter vs the special ISX head bolt socket with both styles of adapter for both loosening and tightening.
If the impact has a sufficient hammer and anvil, the mass of the socket isn’t as important. In the case of Milwaukee who does not use proper hammer and anvils can benefit from extra mass sockets (deep). For a proper not shit impact, shallow sockets that fit very snug win out for power transfer.
Could you guys test some corded impact wrenches? I know they're uncommon, but I'm interested to see how they stack up.
Nice. I think on the smaller sockets there is a difference where the mass is a huge delta between them. Where did you get custom forged sockets made? Id like large 3/8 drive sockets for run down.
I don’t understand stand socket weight concept, surely if your sockets a good fit it shouldn’t be “adding” resistance/absorbing the energy you put into it through impacts, be like hitting the same sized bolt just 1 has a heavier head.
Think the big deal is what are the sockets made from. We all want indestructible sockets but making them extremely hard they’d shatter, make them soft to with stand the impacts and you’d stretch the socket out over the nut or twist in its own shank, personally in think this is where you lose energy if you use a plain unbranded set of sockets they may do everything fine but 1 day you’ll be coming up short and grab an expensive shallow one and boom, doesn’t stretch with each impact nor stretch down its length. So you will become a convert!
So try again with cheap stuff, quality tools you’ll always get good grouping as you’d hope they are made well. Buy cheap, you’ll round heads and stretch the sockets out or just lose energy down the shaft or still be coming up short of what the named brand can deliver with the same style socket.
My thoughts any who, good video!
I use that gun a lot. It's pretty powerful. Not the most powerful, but still pretty powerful
I hope you will test DEWALT DCF899NT.
My icon chrome sockets have withstood a beating that would make a stepfather look bad from my ir t1 2235 and haven’t cracked. The the 2 that get it the worst are wallering on the drive end but that’s to be expected. I put them on red nuts and hammer the crap out of them
Force = Mass × Acceleration. Increase the mass, acceleration will decrease, so force will remain the same. The thick walled Lisle socket will reduce torsional energy loss.
Can you take this to the limit and test the Lisle 77080 19 mm Harmonic Balancer Socket against a standard 19 mm impact socket? These really work at loosening the Honda crank bolt.
More fantastic testing! How about a 12 point chrome socket?
Awesome, thanks for the comparison. Can you compare to 12 point sockets?
Great test!
Would love to see the numbers on the big ridged octane I just got one if you need a test unit
There is a difference, you need weight on the bottom of the socket ,they need to be heavy ,try Snap On 6-Point Metric Flank Drive Shallow Impact vs the long one you use in this video
I would think the power generated at the impact by its internal mechanism would not be enhanced by a heavier socket, since all it does is transmit the power generated within the impact gun. In fact if you used an unusually heavy socket, the inertia of the socket would dampen and diminish the impact generated within the impact gun. Imagine an anvil were attached to the output of the impact gun, would that enhance the impact force? I would think you would barely see any impact force transmitted through it.
Well this might blow your mind then, like it did ours th-cam.com/video/qVd8Bx6AAQc/w-d-xo.html
Torque Test Channel very interesting. Thanks!
3:21 wow, kinda regretting buying that Ryobi impact driver right about now, but I already had the batteries...
I think the size matters more than the weight or length. Say a ½ vs a 1". The larger 1" is going to get more power out of the tool because it's bigger around. Sort of like a larger rear sprocket works on a bike to give it more torque.
L9ve the videos mate. What about trying standard 12 point chromed sockets. Lighter walls might spring open and deliver less.