The old Ernest Gulbis forehand is interesting because even though his left arm was pointing forward and up “Albatross Style”, he still synced his forehand like everyone else. The left arm dropped and tucked in as his racquet head was dropping. So this technique was nothing but a cosmetic change (a bad and unnecessary one). The fundamental technical elements were still present. The torso rotation was synced properly and the contact was made with the dominant shoulder in front. And this is the reason why he was able to make the French Open semis and reach number 10 (2014) in the world despite the unusual positioning of the non-dominant arm in the preparation stage of his forehand.
@Albert YK Chen Roger Federer's forehand looks exactly the way Nick described it. Check out this slow motion video of Roger's forehand and how he clears his non-dominant hand out of the way. th-cam.com/video/KLzaaln6Rf0/w-d-xo.html
Intuitive Tennis Excellent video Nic! Yes! Gulbis had a unique set up and this is what many people noticed vs the technical elements he executed like every other ATP pro, and did very well, as his results showed. I like how you address the syncing of the body rotation and use of the arms and how the kinetic chain works, and the misconceptions and problems players run into in improving their FH. The positioning of the hitting shoulder out in front of the non hitting shoulder at contact is critical yet very few coaches address this. Too much coaching is step oriented unfortunately, like Step 1, Step 2 etc when in reality, most swing elements are seamless, sequential and are synced. The steps-based system approach creates mechanical, broken up movements that disrupt the intuitive flow of the body. Great how how you address how elements need to work together vs as separate actions and movements. The challenge that perhaps you could address (and may have in another video) is the timing in relation to the ball as tennis is both a sending and receiving open skill sport. Many REC players suffer late contact because they misjudge the ball and the swing has no chance to get the hitting shoulder in front. I’ve noticed also that players struggle with the drop phase in term of how to position their hand and arm (many get told to have their palm down) and then get stuck in an awkward position and can’t smoothly swing forward. It looks like your palm is more or less up as you drop. Your feedback on the points would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks!🙏 Keep these great videos coming. Th
Nikola, you have dramatically improved my forehand. Thank you. The principles you teach are bang on. You are articulate, perceptive, and interesting. Your videos are terrific.
You really are amazing at what you do! Your videos have DRAMATICALLY improved my tennis. Seriously, I appreciate it. If you sold stuff or had a way to donate, I would do it in a heartbeat. The least I could do
Intuitive Tennis Agee 100%. Could you maybe do a video on teaching younger kids good habits that allow them to enjoy the game but also transition into great technique even when they grow stronger and taller?
Excellent points, Nick! I especially appreciated your description the direction of the kinetic chain--from top down--rather than the common but incorrect "from the legs up".
To me i feel like it comes from the outside leg - hip - shoulder - arm then goes in reverse direction after contact and ends with inside leg. Otherwise, what is the purpose of loading the outside leg?
Thanks a lot. This is for sure the best forehand video I've seen so far. Hit the pain-point I was not aware of: Having the hitting shoulder in front, to avoid blocking the arm go around the neck. This was blocking me, making the stroke finish way too early, with a non-natural wrist wrick, leading into a weak, barely-controlled ball.
Coach - I’m finding best contact and feel, when practicing this “modern” forehand technique, with an eastern forehand grip. And as you discussed, I am finding the only way to “feel the tip” of the racket is with a much more relaxed grip than I’ve been using for all of my 30+ year tennis career. One of the great things about this game is that there’s always room to learn.
You are the only coach on here that speaks about keeping your eyes on the tennis ball. I gave you a shout out on my channel. You have helped me a lot with my game. Great job on this video my friend.
Another great video. I think both the concept of "power from the ground up" and "keeping the wrist loose" is a faulty didactic approach that comes from the same source: correcting the disconnect that often happens in the unit turn. By disconnect I mean the way many players lose the muscular connection or "tension" that holds the whole body as a "tension-release unit", akin to twisting a rubber pole like the Tyler twist (used for TE elbow). The twist "stores" energy that is released when you let go. And just as the Tyler twist, the twisting starts and is released at the top. Same goes for the wrist; by wanting to correct a grip that is way too tight, the idea of looseness is easy to understand. The problem is again, a wrist that is too loose, equals little or no control over the racket, and little to no effective energy transfer (just as with the Tyler Twist).
Very good explanation Nick! I myself struggle with the body rotation. Until now I thought the sequence was the other way round: from the leg, to the hip to the shoulder. I hope, knowing now the sequence is inverse can help me to improve my natural swing. I really like your remark starting at minute 7:53 : "Yes, a forehand or a serve or a backhand that is struck perfectly feels like we are not doing anything with the arm, because the entire body is synched perfectly with the stroke". This verbalizes exactly what I experience a few times per training. And exactly this is the addictive feeling. It feels so good! If I can do it 5 to 10 times in a training, I want to learn to do it most of the time. Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge.
I’m a very big fan of you and all your videos nik and this one is really game changing for me. I’m trying to level up to a 4.5 and this is the element I’m still trying to wrap my head around. I find myself not fully rotating on my forehand and I couldn’t quite figure out what I was missing. This video is so helpful. I’m going to be watching this and working on this over and over until I get it down. Thanks for this and all your videos.
Holy cow Nik I’m not exaggerating when I say this has already transformed my forehand overnight! I’d been timing my non dominant arm with my racket moving forward in the past so I could never get full rotation and wouldn’t make contact with my dominant shoulder in front of my body. This little tweak of timing my non dominant arm with dropping my racket and getting that arm out of the way earlier has added an incredible amount of spin and pace and consistency to my forehand. I was hitting better and more consistent shots than I ever have in my life. I can’t believe it. I can’t thank you enough. This is officially the most valuable video I’ve ever watched. Thank you!!!
Quite incredible to see how sophisticated the kinetic chain is in the forehand as well as all the other moves in the Tennis game. So many muscles involved, manipulating gravity in different ways. Truly amazing Video by Coach Nik, and really "Intuitive Tennis" indeed. Binge watching these awesome videos and appreciating the attention to details. Cheers!
Wow man your videos are super interesting. I just started playing tennis and figuring out how to put all the technical stuff together is very difficult. But I'll keep watching and listening for your tips. Cheers!
Would be great if you could show us video analysis of the pros doing this please Nikola. There are plenty out there trying to show us that it’s the opposite way round.
Mark, you can take any pro and see the the racquet drop from the loop and the non-dominant arm getting out of the way simultaneously. Chest open shortly prior to contact and dominant shoulder ahead at contact.
Intuitive Tennis yes I can see that but why does everyone say it all initiates from the ground up with the hip leading the way in the torso rotation? This teaching is everywhere.
So they see pros getting airborne and think it’s because of a strong push off from the ground and hip rotation then apply it to all groundstrokes even when not airborne?
I don’t know Mark but the top down kinetic chain is so obvious a child can see it. Look at forehand still shots at the moment of contact on google image search (Federer, Nadal anyone). You will see that the dominant shoulder is always ahead of the dominant hip. Which makes it crystal clear that the sequence is hands/shoulders/hips/legs
Another great video, your analysises are always excellent! - I have 2 questions though: 1) I feel a lot of the power and especially topspin on the forehand comes from the legs, and all coaches tell me to use knee bend, doesn't most power come from the legs driving up/forward? 2) How about the Kinetic chain on the serve? (I have the feeling the serve is a lot like the atp forehand, meaning if I sync it correctly the racket will be "dropped" by the leg drive, but on the serve I clearly feel its legs, hips, torso, shoulders in that order leading into the drop, and then some "elastic effect" driving the racket up. Isn't that correct? (Especially on shadow swings though, when the ball is in play its more difficult not to arm the ball a little bit...) I watched Lisa Dodsons videos, stating that the chain reaction on the serve starts with the back leg pushing AND/OR THE TOSSING ARM PULLING, what do you think of all this? Best, Joakim
Hi Joakim Knee bend on low balls, higher balls require less bending. Rotation occurs top to bottom on FH on all high level FH’s. I have two leg drive videos where I present my research. It’s crystal clear that no top server jumps or drives legs on serve. Check them out th-cam.com/video/3Tzk6IAH4VQ/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/rSPc480H9uo/w-d-xo.html
Well Nic, KCH from Top To Bottom: your explanation truly makes whole sense I agree. But Nic what about other apparently good coaches (indeed there aren´t many that good, but the ones I watch seem pretty good) that say the opposite from you, that is KCH: Bottom To Top in this order: legs, hips start or fire rotation , suppination of the forearm, elbow release out in front with the forearm pronated and subsequent pronated finish with the forearm kind of looking at your eyes - as if looking at your wrist watch. These other coaches explanations showing super pros slowmos footage are CONVINCING and MAKES SENSE TOO!!!. You all are going to drive us tennis people crazy. And I concede that it shows that you perform your forehand exactly like what I described above only that you say from TOP TO BOTTOM. Might it be like in math, that there are different ways to get to the same result? At this rate, us the tennis mortals will have to wait for the ultimate answer from the very mouth of Roger, novak and Rafa. Will any ex atp interviewer out there ever ask them some really interesting technical aspects for the planet tennis? So meanwhile Nic, it´s time for you to add an extra proof of the Top To Bottom KCH by showing or super convince us with RF,ND & RN slowmo videos preferably during matches that THE WAY IS TOP TO BOTTOM. I´d love this debate. Thank you of course, you´re a great coach!!! Deserve all my regards. PD: th-cam.com/video/CwNXpIlBDXU/w-d-xo.html I love seeing Novak´s videos though I admire Roger, trying to model him it´s nonsense, he´s out of this world. instead Nole´s forehand is more "human" but so efficient ,powerful and with tons of topspin too. With it does whatever he wants to. In this vid I can´t be more agree with the Top To Bottom KCH. But I´m not an specialist :) I observe that the feeling of his fh strike starts with his racquet to his side and his non dominant arm like you say, then the rest. He´s using his hips but as you say, only going all along with the body. Not in a thrusty, violent, noticeable way. Another of you points is seen here: He´s waiting for the ball being turned, then as he starts his forward motion while his non dominant arm is slowly going out he begins to open up. Good!!! Many of us can´t keep this "waiting" position long enough. We are beaten by anxiety and open up out of sync. HOWEVER, in this front view, THIS is KEY for me: Have you NOTICED how well shipshape, ordered and neat is ALWAYS his UPPER ARM. It´s like "slept" or "dead" like a dead weight, doing nothing, kind of always resting, passive, only doing the job of lifting his FOREARM. From then on, "ALL" the forward motion, the speed, everything seems to be done by only his FOREARM, his elbow and forearm go forward well out in front. I´m 100% sure that his FEELING IS in his FOREARM. HE´s NOT "USING" ALL OF his ARM. That´s how travels the acceleration from the big muscles from his back, shoulder and biceps to the small ones: forearm and finally wrist.
In my opinion the reason Nikola has it the other way around with other coaches is because he has a fundamentally different definition of what a "kinetic chain" is. From what I can tell he's mostly talking about what you should focus on (and in what order) while hitting a forehand, while other coaches are talking about the chain of forces (and counter-forces) that lead to the racquet head speed at contact.
I'm thinking, another way to say this is to ensure you are rotating your hips/torso into the shot, aka using your body as well, not just your arm. Also for the shoulder rotation to happen, you have to really swing the racket. The followthrough is the result of the swing momentum. That's why beginners don't really have a follow through, because they're just pushing the ball, not really swinging. Also, I agree that the legs are not really part of the kinetic chain, they are just a bonus. You extend your legs into the shot for more power, and this doesn't start at the beginning of the swing. It's around the time you start to accelerate the racket, close to contact.
Hey Nick, great analysis and explanation as usual. Would you keep the shoulders plane parallel to the ground? The pros seem to have both a pitch and yaw on their torso, (you seem to play with a straighter torso) so the rotation should be almost perpendicular to the spine angle, but it is not very clear. You mentioned in another video the dom shoulder at impact is lower than the non-dominant one. To do this the rotation needs to be made perpendicular to the spine angle, no? Thanks
On where the kinetic chain starts - It is often (as you noted) said to be starting from the ground up. I think you rightly say that it is not starting there. However, it feels like it may be starting there in parallel in that it is acting as a stop against the upper body rotation. If you were on a lazy susan disc, your lower body would rotate the opposite way from your upper body. So, the legs have to start firing in order to give your upper body the base it needs to rotate. After the upper body has fired and starts to complete its rotation, the legs finish their path and follow it around. I like your explanation better than the start from the ground explanation, because the legs are reacting to the upper body, not starting something.
Thanks for the well explained video! My coach says that the hitting arm should be almost fully extended when the ball is hit. In your video, your arm is quite bent. Is the bent arm better?
Stretched arm is preferred if you have a continental or eastern grip and closed stance, like in the days of wooden rackets up till the early 90’s. So either your coach is trying to optimise what you are doing naturally, or teaching you a FH technique he feels suits your level, or (sadly) not entirely up to date with current techniques any more.
Good stuff thanks Nick - makes sense. Just noticed you kinda have a hitch in your raquet drop phase, right? Not that it matters..but interesting to note. Forgot to mention: this helped me work out and fix the subtle shoulder rotation (non dominant hand) under rotation issue that was messing up my FH timing a bit. Thanks!
Thanks for the video. The top-to-bottom concept is indeed very eye-opening, and could help fix my problem, which is hitting too late. However, when I try the techniques you introduced in this video, I found there’s a disconnect between my upper and lower body. I can’t feel my power from hips or legs, resulting in a lack of control in my strokes. Can you talk more about how to sync upper and lower body? For example, when I pull my non dominate arm, show I intentionally turn my legs/hips as well? If so, what’s the right sequence?
Would you say that the "responsibility" of taking the racket to the contact point is more of the rotation of the body (say 80%??) than moving the arm forward (around 20%)??
Yes, opening non-dominant shoulder too soon, or simultaneously rotating both shoulders counterclockwise like Discus Throwers , is a common problem, but how do you suggest to fix it? Just stopping non-dominant should rotation would make it unnatural and lead to less fluid shot. It is probably required to stop both shoulders so the arm with Racquete is being thrown by dominant shoulder&torso in a wiping move. Then naturally non- dominant should would rotate after the contact. However it is hard to see such stop in this demo.
Hi Nikola, you talk about dropping the racquet before upswing to hit the ball, but I see something else happening: the arm drops, and the racquet drop is only the consequence, right?
Hi Nic :) first of all thank you for these great tips. I somehow still do not get it. My coach told me the same btw that the kinetic chain is top-down instead of bottom-up. Exactly the opposite I was taught, but it seems to work better. But when looking at slow-mo footage for example of Ferrer or Djokovic I can hardly tell whether the shoulder is initiated first or the legs start to unload. Could you maybe provide an example of this concept by looking at a pro forehand? Hvala ti puno
Hi, great video, THANKS! You say that you open up when the racquet drops (11:03). Question: How do you open up? By moving the non-dominant (left) hand to the left or moving the right shoulder forward?
Nick, you said you don’t use your legs on the kinetic chain. Are you saying you should not push up with your legs as you make contact with the ball? to me this seems like it does improve your top spin. Are you saying you can hit just fine with no leg drive upward? do you have any more videos to talk about this? thanks so much - your instruction is great
@@IntuitiveTennis I get all your points about not jumping, and emergency situations where you can't push up, however, it still seems to me, on a normal forehand, when you have time and position to set up, the upward push from the legs is a helpful component, i.e. it adds something (spin) to the ball. Am I incorrect? Seems like I can see this even in your video examples. The chain does not start with the legs, however the upward push is part of the chain.
It’s important to lead with hip and the buttcap will naturally point forwards. Don’t understand when coaches tell people to point the buttcap when it occurs naturally if you rotate the hips initially. It’s a natural action it shouldn’t be forced.Important to get that lag!
Exactly I agree. This guy doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking. He sounds like broken record “dominated” and “non-dominated hand??? Coach Steven is far better than this useless coach.
Akif M I’m not saying this guy is a bad coach actually quite the opposite I’m saying coaches in general. This guy is fantastic which is why I subscribe to his channel.
If you were to hold your arms stretched out wide forming a T and you started swinging your arms by rotating your torso and letting your arms flail around loosely, your left arm would naturally get out of the way on its on when you go left and vice-versa. Simply continue doing this arm swinging while slowly tilting your right shoulder down so that your torso has a slight tilt. Keep doing this and you'll see the left arm gets out of the way on it's own. Now pick up a racquet and continue the exercise. eventually get to a point where you drop feed a ball and swing the racquet using the same exercise while making contact with the ball out in front. Hold the racquet as loosely as you can get away with. It is important to be relaxed and not hold the racquet too tightly. The ball will fly off of the racquet with minimal arm swing and the racquet will lag behind on its own because . Dial in the racquet face angle so that the ball lands in the court. It's important not to lift the head too early - if the ball goes out or in the net, adjust the angle, but maintain the fluidity and smoothness of the stroke.
You said that the chain starts top to bottom. How would you use leg drive to still do the chain correctly? Is there a way to push off the ground to initiate the chain because all the pros seem to push off the ground to initiate the chain amd dont just use their legs at the end.
Just wanted to ask is there an inverse movement in that is the racquet still going back while the hips are turning forward. Also players such as Monfils, which seems more noticeable, take the racquet outside the incoming ball flight and then on the forward swing are hitting out forward at a 45 degree angle which would be like a figure eight type motion. Agassi had a similar type motion but it is more difficult to pick up in Federer's swing.
I know what you mean Rharrell, on very powerful forehands the tip of the racquet will point behind the player on the lag. It’s a result of acceleration. I more visible on some players with a certain racquet drop but they all have it , even WTA
I was taught forehand in the late '70 with the closed stance. Maybe this is why many recreational players have this shoulder position problem? Being sideways you can't have your dominant shoulder be in front of you while hitting. I think many trainers today still teach the "closed stance", thus preventing the dominant shoulder being in front. Am I right?
I hit with a closed stance, but am able to get the dominant shoulder in front at point of contact. This happens as the hips rotate and the back foot pivots on the big toe.
I'm confused about this. It makes more sense to me that you are initiating a forward rotation movement with the dominant arm shoulder, rather than initiating with the non-dominant arm/shoulder getting out of the way. I've heard from many instructors to "swing from the shoulder" and that implies initiating rotation with the dominant arm shoulder to me. Incorrect?
Hi Eric, focus on the syncing the off arm with the racquet drop and you have a chance to make proper contact with the dominant shoulder in front and you will likely swing across the body. The shoulders are rotating in unison and you should focus on the one that leads the way that being the non-dominant one. Here’s what happens if you fail to make proper contact: th-cam.com/video/MAqAcqsAatQ/w-d-xo.html
It looks like your initiating your down swing with your arm .... IMO ... you should be activating your lower body first specifically the hips ... you have a nice looking swing , but have a power leak because of this
Great content as always, one question: at the end of the takeback or start of the forward pull are you twisting your wrist to the right (ulnar deviation)? When doing this my forehand seems to be more consistent.
Not consciously, my wrist is set in the loop, from there it remains constant. It does get jerked backwards a little in the beginning of the forward phase
Hi there Nicky, I've been following you for a while and am a huge fan. I have a question which I'm hoping you can clarify for me. There a different opinions out there on whether, from the point of the take back and into the forward motion, we are rotating the body on a horizontal plane (like a c shape) in order to get to the contact point and then from contact up on the ball across the body and over our opposite shoulder (for direction & spin)? I' have the same back swing and timing as you have previously demonstrated, however, prior to contact point I m coming from low to high (getting under the ball like bowling motion) and then up and across... is this worth changing? Can this be more efficient if using the horizontal plane. Are there pro's and con's of both?
Is that possible that the bent elbow in the stroke causes inner elbow pain? I have the exact movement that it is shown in the video, but in the past few days I've been suffering from this annoying pain in the inner elbow. In today pratice I tried to change the stroke to a more straight right arm, but I lost tons of top spin and consequently the control of where the ball lands. So, considering a suposition and that I have the exact stroke that it is shown in this video, what could be the cause of this pain I have? Thank you for the great video btw!
Hi Felipe, I don’t know what the pain is from, but the vast majority of high level forehands use the bent arm. So I doubt that this is the cause. I would always look at string, grip size and type of frame as the causation of pain before doing any technical changes
@@IntuitiveTennis I use a wilson blade v7 18x20 (which is a rather flex racket) with a volkl cyclone 17 full bed stringed at 50lb. I don't believe that my set up is harmful for me considering that I am 28. Any step of the movement, if done wrong, could cause strain or tension in this inner elbow part? For example: late contact with the ball or shoulder position during the contact, etc. What do you think?
It could be. Sounds like you have golfers elbow. I’ve had it (it went away after a few months), it was after I switched to Babolat after playing with Wilson for 20 years. I know John Isner has had it. You could have hurt yourself with a bad stroke. Best to see a doctor.
Hey Nik, I' ve noticed that you like to hit quite flat. I have a question about it. Is it still adviceble to drop the racquet a little bit under the level of the ball when hitting from the baseline, or can one hit completely flat and still have margin also at waiste height? I have a western grip and to really make the ball travel fast I noticed that I really have to hit as much flat as I can really. wondering to know what you think
Hi tennis92, Spin is created at contact when the racquet travels vertically over the ball. Coming underneath the ball can help this swing path but is not necessary.
@@IntuitiveTennis thanks a lot. Is there a video where you explain this concept? It' s very interesting cause I can' t really figure out what the difference between the two examples you brought. I'm sure there is a big difference and I' d really appreciate to watch a video about this; that' d be awesome!
I get into it here th-cam.com/video/K4RGNRqfi54/w-d-xo.html And here th-cam.com/video/UvzPS01Qp7Y/w-d-xo.html And here th-cam.com/video/DnphtxmN4bE/w-d-xo.html Will be making a future video as well
@@IntuitiveTennis you are correct. Many players feel that the modern forehand has to have a semi western grip at least and a windscreen wiper. I love the becker forehand. Its the one coaches should teach club players. federer style is too hard to master
i'll be honest. You make it work but this is not my favorite forehand out there. It seems stiff, the elbow is too bent, and it comes out too flat. not much loose wrist lag you make up for it with superb experience and accuracy
Hi, thanks for your videos. One thing I noticed from slow playing your videos (seen at 3:08 as well) is your bent arm (a "square U" shape 2:05) with the right elbow leading the swing forward. TBH for me, your swing and contact looks to be painful if someone hits you hard balls or if you are trying to hit the ball hard the arm looks "segmented". I like the tip about the dominant shoulder leading and top-down kinetic chain message.
95% percent of high level players (99% women) hit with a bent arm. th-cam.com/video/ceOnxq1QLss/w-d-xo.html There is no correlation btw arm injuries and hitting with a bent arm In fact I’ve never had arm pain in 35 years of playing tennis
Nikola, I love your videos but am thinking I'm misunderstanding your top-down theory. First, the portion of the kinetic chain that matters would seem to start at the first forward movement of the racquet, not during the takeback. Maybe that is what you're saying. Second, I pulled up a court level, side-view, matchplay video of Federer, and cannot for the life of me see the legs being last in the chain: th-cam.com/video/nSmXkmTxQ0c/w-d-xo.html To me the hips move first and that is only possible if force is put through the feet to turn the hips. The leg force can be all horizontal, not necessarily vertical/jumping. Here's an airborne forehand from the same video: th-cam.com/video/nSmXkmTxQ0c/w-d-xo.html This time I see the legs extend with vertical force first, the hips rotate, then the shoulders turn last. Contact is still out in front, so he's not making that crucial mistake you've brought to light regarding most club players. What am I missing?
Federer’s forehand or any other forehand at the high level is executed how I described it in the video. Dominant hip is behind the non dominant hip every time. On high forehands there will be a straightening of the entire body to adjust to the higher contact occurring simultaneously with the off hand initiating the torso rotation.
I think you two are considering different phases of the stroke when thinking of the kinetic chain. Nikola considers the whole phase from letting go the racket from the non-dominant hand until the complete finish of the stroke. You (B'dole 0139) (and I think most of the people) on the other hand consider only the phase from the exact point where the forward swing starts (the left arm is already disconnected from the racket and the racket has already dropped somewhat down here) until the racket makes contact with the ball. When I look at the phase Nikola considers, the first thing to move is the non-dominant as well as the dominant hand, and the last things that move at the end of the stroke are the hips and the legs (when the player steps/pulls to the side or jumps and lands). And in between you have the torso rotation. When I look at the phase you consider, the forward swing starts first with a (subtle) push from the legs, which leads to a (subtle) hip drive which then drives the upper body and evenually the arm. And here, it is just important which body parts start to move first, not which body parts turn more and are therefore in front of the other parts. E.g. even though the hips turn first, after contact they are literally overtaken by the also rotating torso, but that happens outside of the phase you consider, so it is not important here. In other words, "your" kinetic chain lays within the kinetic chain Nikola is talking about. And because Nikola 1. is considering a longer phase of the stroke and 2. the movements of the particular body parts (legs, hips, torso...) are much more prominent "outside" of "your" (subtle) kinetic chain (where the actual movements can barely be seen whith the human eye), the "bigger" movements are taken more into consideration and are described as the kinetic chain. Maybe you can say there is an outer (Nikola's) and an inner (yours) kinetic chain. The particular movements of the body parts in the inner kinetic chain are so subtle and happen so fast that they can only be seen in super slow motion footage (at least for me :)). So in my opinion both of you are right, you are just not speaking about the same kinetic chain. But that is just my opinion. I hope you could understand my theory.
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The old Ernest Gulbis forehand is interesting because even though his left arm was pointing forward and up “Albatross Style”, he still synced his forehand like everyone else. The left arm dropped and tucked in as his racquet head was dropping. So this technique was nothing but a cosmetic change (a bad and unnecessary one). The fundamental technical elements were still present. The torso rotation was synced properly and the contact was made with the dominant shoulder in front. And this is the reason why he was able to make the French Open semis and reach number 10 (2014) in the world despite the unusual positioning of the non-dominant arm in the preparation stage of his forehand.
@Albert YK Chen Roger Federer's forehand looks exactly the way Nick described it. Check out this slow motion video of Roger's forehand and how he clears his non-dominant hand out of the way. th-cam.com/video/KLzaaln6Rf0/w-d-xo.html
While he's warming up he's making very minimal use, if at all, of his legs
Intuitive Tennis Excellent video Nic! Yes! Gulbis had a unique set up and this is what many people noticed vs the technical elements he executed like every other ATP pro, and did very well, as his results showed.
I like how you address the syncing of the body rotation and use of the arms and how the kinetic chain works, and the misconceptions and problems players run into in improving their FH. The positioning of the hitting shoulder out in front of the non hitting shoulder at contact is critical yet very few coaches address this. Too much coaching is step oriented unfortunately, like Step 1, Step 2 etc when in reality, most swing elements are seamless, sequential and are synced. The steps-based system approach creates mechanical, broken up movements that disrupt the intuitive flow of the body. Great how how you address how elements need to work together vs as separate actions and movements.
The challenge that perhaps you could address (and may have in another video) is the timing in relation to the ball as tennis is both a sending and receiving open skill sport. Many REC players suffer late contact because they misjudge the ball and the swing has no chance to get the hitting shoulder in front. I’ve noticed also that players struggle with the drop phase in term of how to position their hand and arm (many get told to have their palm down) and then get stuck in an awkward position and can’t smoothly swing forward. It looks like your palm is more or less up as you drop. Your feedback on the points would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks!🙏 Keep these great videos coming.
Th
poida, I will cover those topics in detail and also explain my forehand and why it looks so “ugly” 😂😂
Intuitive Tennis Great Nic, look forward to your insights re the questions and the self analysis of your “ugly” looking forehand! 😂
Nikola, you have dramatically improved my forehand. Thank you. The principles you teach are bang on. You are articulate, perceptive, and interesting. Your videos are terrific.
🙏🙏
The best kinetic chain and unit turn explanation. Thank you.
You really are amazing at what you do! Your videos have DRAMATICALLY improved my tennis. Seriously, I appreciate it.
If you sold stuff or had a way to donate, I would do it in a heartbeat. The least I could do
It’s my pleasure vbsurferr, glad you are finding the information useful
Intuitive Tennis Agee 100%.
Could you maybe do a video on teaching younger kids good habits that allow them to enjoy the game but also transition into great technique even when they grow stronger and taller?
Thank you JD, yes I’ll definitely cover that topic
One of the best videos for the modern forehand, and I have seen many already.....
🙏
My forehand feels so much better when i manage to make contact with the dominant shoulder in front.
Great video Nick, i like it.
Excellent points, Nick! I especially appreciated your description the direction of the kinetic chain--from top down--rather than the common but incorrect "from the legs up".
Thank you George
To me i feel like it comes from the outside leg - hip - shoulder - arm then goes in reverse direction after contact and ends with inside leg. Otherwise, what is the purpose of loading the outside leg?
This really is one of the best videos I've seen for any particular aspect of the game.
wonderful video，power chain and contact point are the most most crucial things in the forehand，i think。
Thanks a lot. This is for sure the best forehand video I've seen so far. Hit the pain-point I was not aware of: Having the hitting shoulder in front, to avoid blocking the arm go around the neck. This was blocking me, making the stroke finish way too early, with a non-natural wrist wrick, leading into a weak, barely-controlled ball.
My pleasure Fran
Great discussion of the non-dominant arm in the forehand kinetic chain.
Vos arguments et explications sont cohérents Thank U guy awesome video
Wonderful explanation of the kinetic chain being top-down where legs contribute in the later stage of the forehand stroke.
Coach - I’m finding best contact and feel, when practicing this “modern” forehand technique, with an eastern forehand grip. And as you discussed, I am finding the only way to “feel the tip” of the racket is with a much more relaxed grip than I’ve been using for all of my 30+ year tennis career. One of the great things about this game is that there’s always room to learn.
You are the only coach on here that speaks about keeping your eyes on the tennis ball. I gave you a shout out on my channel. You have helped me a lot with my game. Great job on this video my friend.
Awesome! Thank you!
Have to watch this many a times its so helpful, love from India 🤍what a structured learning from you, great teacher!
Great stuff. All makes sense. Tennis is like dancing, one must feel it😉
For sure 👍👍
find your coaching extremely valuable / great explanations and relating it to current players. thank you
Another great video.
I think both the concept of "power from the ground up" and "keeping the wrist loose" is a faulty didactic approach that comes from the same source: correcting the disconnect that often happens in the unit turn. By disconnect I mean the way many players lose the muscular connection or "tension" that holds the whole body as a "tension-release unit", akin to twisting a rubber pole like the Tyler twist (used for TE elbow). The twist "stores" energy that is released when you let go. And just as the Tyler twist, the twisting starts and is released at the top.
Same goes for the wrist; by wanting to correct a grip that is way too tight, the idea of looseness is easy to understand. The problem is again, a wrist that is too loose, equals little or no control over the racket, and little to no effective energy transfer (just as with the Tyler Twist).
Didactic....any reason for such poor word choice?
Very good explanation Nick!
I myself struggle with the body rotation.
Until now I thought the sequence was the other way round: from the leg, to the hip to the shoulder.
I hope, knowing now the sequence is inverse can help me to improve my natural swing.
I really like your remark starting at minute 7:53
: "Yes, a forehand or a serve or a backhand that is struck perfectly feels like we are not doing anything with the arm, because the entire body is synched perfectly with the stroke".
This verbalizes exactly what I experience a few times per training.
And exactly this is the addictive feeling. It feels so good!
If I can do it 5 to 10 times in a training, I want to learn to do it most of the time.
Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge.
Thank you Jim
Great lesson...I Always open my chest too early and Lost a lot of Power and dont "feel" a Good contact point... Thank you 👍
Thanks David
This video is instructional gold!
🙏
This video is really helpful. If I feel off on forehand, I make sure I get the hitting shoulder in front and it usually helps settle it.
Too good Nick! This is an awesome step by step explanation of a forehand execution! ❤️
Thank you Natachi 🙏🙏
Excellent tutorial. Thanks for the detailed information.
Thank you Manju
Nik, great instructions! This really is a paradigm shift, but a good one. Your observations are spot on!
You are the best instructor!
This forehand video is extremely helpful!
You are a terrific instructor - wow!!! Keep up the great work
Thank you Tom
Excellent video!! a lot of help to my forehand!! thanks!!
I’m a very big fan of you and all your videos nik and this one is really game changing for me. I’m trying to level up to a 4.5 and this is the element I’m still trying to wrap my head around. I find myself not fully rotating on my forehand and I couldn’t quite figure out what I was missing. This video is so helpful. I’m going to be watching this and working on this over and over until I get it down. Thanks for this and all your videos.
Thank you Migs 🙌
Holy cow Nik I’m not exaggerating when I say this has already transformed my forehand overnight! I’d been timing my non dominant arm with my racket moving forward in the past so I could never get full rotation and wouldn’t make contact with my dominant shoulder in front of my body. This little tweak of timing my non dominant arm with dropping my racket and getting that arm out of the way earlier has added an incredible amount of spin and pace and consistency to my forehand. I was hitting better and more consistent shots than I ever have in my life. I can’t believe it. I can’t thank you enough. This is officially the most valuable video I’ve ever watched. Thank you!!!
Great video!
Just amazing videos. I am experimenting with this currently!
Great Nik 👍👍
Quite incredible to see how sophisticated the kinetic chain is in the forehand as well as all the other moves in the Tennis game. So many muscles involved, manipulating gravity in different ways. Truly amazing Video by Coach Nik, and really "Intuitive Tennis" indeed. Binge watching these awesome videos and appreciating the attention to details. Cheers!
fantastic explanation! Very well explained..
Wow man your videos are super interesting. I just started playing tennis and figuring out how to put all the technical stuff together is very difficult. But I'll keep watching and listening for your tips. Cheers!
GREAT JOB...as usual...
Thank you fantolaus
Video très intéressante, techniquement et pédagogiquement. Merci.
muy bien explicada la tecnica del drive.quisiera pedir una explicacion detallada del saque con slice.muchas gracias
How succinct. Thank you so much.
Very helpful video. Thanks.
Would be great if you could show us video analysis of the pros doing this please Nikola. There are plenty out there trying to show us that it’s the opposite way round.
Mark, you can take any pro and see the the racquet drop from the loop and the non-dominant arm getting out of the way simultaneously. Chest open shortly prior to contact and dominant shoulder ahead at contact.
Intuitive Tennis yes I can see that but why does everyone say it all initiates from the ground up with the hip leading the way in the torso rotation? This teaching is everywhere.
People are misinterpreting all strokes where players get airborne
So they see pros getting airborne and think it’s because of a strong push off from the ground and hip rotation then apply it to all groundstrokes even when not airborne?
I don’t know Mark but the top down kinetic chain is so obvious a child can see it. Look at forehand still shots at the moment of contact on google image search (Federer, Nadal anyone). You will see that the dominant shoulder is always ahead of the dominant hip. Which makes it crystal clear that the sequence is hands/shoulders/hips/legs
(Seriously) - Excellent!
Amazing teaching thank you.
Which grip should I use?
Try this 👉 th-cam.com/video/WEMbmDurvNk/w-d-xo.html
great video! thanks
Another great video, your analysises are always excellent!
- I have 2 questions though:
1) I feel a lot of the power and especially topspin on the forehand comes from the legs, and all coaches tell me to use knee bend, doesn't most power come from the legs driving up/forward?
2) How about the Kinetic chain on the serve?
(I have the feeling the serve is a lot like the atp forehand, meaning if I sync it correctly the racket will be "dropped" by the leg drive, but on the serve I clearly feel its legs, hips, torso, shoulders in that order leading into the drop, and then some "elastic effect" driving the racket up. Isn't that correct? (Especially on shadow swings though, when the ball is in play its more difficult not to arm the ball a little bit...)
I watched Lisa Dodsons videos, stating that the chain reaction on the serve starts with the back leg pushing AND/OR THE TOSSING ARM PULLING, what do you think of all this?
Best, Joakim
Hi Joakim
Knee bend on low balls, higher balls require less bending. Rotation occurs top to bottom on FH on all high level FH’s.
I have two leg drive videos where I present my research. It’s crystal clear that no top server jumps or drives legs on serve. Check them out
th-cam.com/video/3Tzk6IAH4VQ/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/rSPc480H9uo/w-d-xo.html
Well Nic, KCH from Top To Bottom: your explanation truly makes whole sense I agree. But Nic what about other apparently good coaches (indeed there aren´t many that good, but the ones I watch seem pretty good) that say the opposite from you, that is KCH: Bottom To Top in this order: legs, hips start or fire rotation , suppination of the forearm, elbow release out in front with the forearm pronated and subsequent pronated finish with the forearm kind of looking at your eyes - as if looking at your wrist watch. These other coaches explanations showing super pros slowmos footage are CONVINCING and MAKES SENSE TOO!!!. You all are going to drive us tennis people crazy.
And I concede that it shows that you perform your forehand exactly like what I described above only that you say from TOP TO BOTTOM. Might it be like in math, that there are different ways to get to the same result?
At this rate, us the tennis mortals will have to wait for the ultimate answer from the very mouth of Roger, novak and Rafa. Will any ex atp interviewer out there ever ask them some really interesting technical aspects for the planet tennis?
So meanwhile Nic, it´s time for you to add an extra proof of the Top To Bottom KCH by showing or super convince us with RF,ND & RN slowmo videos preferably during matches that THE WAY IS TOP TO BOTTOM. I´d love this debate.
Thank you of course, you´re a great coach!!! Deserve all my regards.
PD:
th-cam.com/video/CwNXpIlBDXU/w-d-xo.html
I love seeing Novak´s videos though I admire Roger, trying to model him it´s nonsense, he´s out of this world. instead Nole´s forehand is more "human" but so efficient ,powerful and with tons of topspin too. With it does whatever he wants to.
In this vid I can´t be more agree with the Top To Bottom KCH. But I´m not an specialist :)
I observe that the feeling of his fh strike starts with his racquet to his side and his non dominant arm like you say, then the rest. He´s using his hips but as you say, only going all along with the body. Not in a thrusty, violent, noticeable way.
Another of you points is seen here: He´s waiting for the ball being turned, then as he starts his forward motion while his non dominant arm is slowly going out he begins to open up. Good!!! Many of us can´t keep this "waiting" position long enough. We are beaten by anxiety and open up out of sync.
HOWEVER, in this front view, THIS is KEY for me: Have you NOTICED how well shipshape, ordered and neat is ALWAYS his UPPER ARM. It´s like "slept" or "dead" like a dead weight, doing nothing, kind of always resting, passive, only doing the job of lifting his FOREARM. From then on, "ALL" the forward motion, the speed, everything seems to be done by only his FOREARM, his elbow and forearm go forward well out in front. I´m 100% sure that his FEELING IS in his FOREARM. HE´s NOT "USING" ALL OF his ARM. That´s how travels the acceleration from the big muscles from his back, shoulder and biceps to the small ones: forearm and finally wrist.
I will analyze pro strokes down the road with footage
In my opinion the reason Nikola has it the other way around with other coaches is because he has a fundamentally different definition of what a "kinetic chain" is.
From what I can tell he's mostly talking about what you should focus on (and in what order) while hitting a forehand, while other coaches are talking about the chain of forces (and counter-forces) that lead to the racquet head speed at contact.
This was good..!! Thank you!!
My pleasure 🙏
Thanks sir.
I'm thinking, another way to say this is to ensure you are rotating your hips/torso into the shot, aka using your body as well, not just your arm. Also for the shoulder rotation to happen, you have to really swing the racket. The followthrough is the result of the swing momentum. That's why beginners don't really have a follow through, because they're just pushing the ball, not really swinging. Also, I agree that the legs are not really part of the kinetic chain, they are just a bonus. You extend your legs into the shot for more power, and this doesn't start at the beginning of the swing. It's around the time you start to accelerate the racket, close to contact.
Great class...
10. Thanks a lot.
Thanks this informative tutorials
Thanks coach
Still a very good video! Thx Nik!
Greetings from Austria :)
Great, Thanks
Thank u
Thx !
Hey Nick, great analysis and explanation as usual. Would you keep the shoulders plane parallel to the ground? The pros seem to have both a pitch and yaw on their torso, (you seem to play with a straighter torso) so the rotation should be almost perpendicular to the spine angle, but it is not very clear. You mentioned in another video the dom shoulder at impact is lower than the non-dominant one. To do this the rotation needs to be made perpendicular to the spine angle, no?
Thanks
Thanks Ale, it depends on the height of the incoming ball. The lower the ball the more the dominant shoulder drops.
On where the kinetic chain starts - It is often (as you noted) said to be starting from the ground up. I think you rightly say that it is not starting there. However, it feels like it may be starting there in parallel in that it is acting as a stop against the upper body rotation. If you were on a lazy susan disc, your lower body would rotate the opposite way from your upper body. So, the legs have to start firing in order to give your upper body the base it needs to rotate. After the upper body has fired and starts to complete its rotation, the legs finish their path and follow it around.
I like your explanation better than the start from the ground explanation, because the legs are reacting to the upper body, not starting something.
Solid base is very important and the legs indirectly contribute. There is also a simultaneous straightening of the legs on higher balls.
Thanks for the well explained video!
My coach says that the hitting arm should be almost fully extended when the ball is hit. In your video, your arm is quite bent. Is the bent arm better?
The vast majority of high level players hits with bent arm 👉 th-cam.com/video/CjIMzKQVv9M/w-d-xo.html
Stretched arm is preferred if you have a continental or eastern grip and closed stance, like in the days of wooden rackets up till the early 90’s. So either your coach is trying to optimise what you are doing naturally, or teaching you a FH technique he feels suits your level, or (sadly) not entirely up to date with current techniques any more.
Good stuff thanks Nick - makes sense. Just noticed you kinda have a hitch in your raquet drop phase, right? Not that it matters..but interesting to note.
Forgot to mention: this helped me work out and fix the subtle shoulder rotation (non dominant hand) under rotation issue that was messing up my FH timing a bit. Thanks!
Thanks for the video. The top-to-bottom concept is indeed very eye-opening, and could help fix my problem, which is hitting too late. However, when I try the techniques you introduced in this video, I found there’s a disconnect between my upper and lower body. I can’t feel my power from hips or legs, resulting in a lack of control in my strokes. Can you talk more about how to sync upper and lower body? For example, when I pull my non dominate arm, show I intentionally turn my legs/hips as well? If so, what’s the right sequence?
Would you say that the "responsibility" of taking the racket to the contact point is more of the rotation of the body (say 80%??) than moving the arm forward (around 20%)??
Yes, opening non-dominant shoulder too soon, or simultaneously rotating both shoulders counterclockwise like Discus Throwers , is a common problem, but how do you suggest to fix it? Just stopping non-dominant should rotation would make it unnatural and lead to less fluid shot. It is probably required to stop both shoulders so the arm with Racquete is being thrown by dominant shoulder&torso in a wiping move. Then naturally non- dominant should would rotate after the contact. However it is hard to see such stop in this demo.
Hi Nikola, you talk about dropping the racquet before upswing to hit the ball, but I see something else happening: the arm drops, and the racquet drop is only the consequence, right?
Hi Nic :) first of all thank you for these great tips. I somehow still do not get it. My coach told me the same btw that the kinetic chain is top-down instead of bottom-up. Exactly the opposite I was taught, but it seems to work better. But when looking at slow-mo footage for example of Ferrer or Djokovic I can hardly tell whether the shoulder is initiated first or the legs start to unload. Could you maybe provide an example of this concept by looking at a pro forehand? Hvala ti puno
It’s tricky using pro footage, but I’m working on it
Are you use "drop on table" ?
Hi, great video, THANKS! You say that you open up when the racquet drops (11:03).
Question: How do you open up? By moving the non-dominant (left) hand to the left or moving the right shoulder forward?
Nick, you said you don’t use your legs on the kinetic chain. Are you saying you should not push up with your legs as you make contact with the ball?
to me this seems like it does improve your top spin. Are you saying you can hit just fine with no leg drive upward?
do you have any more videos to talk about this?
thanks so much - your instruction is great
I talk about it here but will discuss in future vids as well th-cam.com/video/t9cN78hePa8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=tE1mZ6c4dsYEyvun
@@IntuitiveTennis I get all your points about not jumping, and emergency situations where you can't push up, however, it still seems to me, on a normal forehand, when you have time and position to set up, the upward push from the legs is a helpful component, i.e. it adds something (spin) to the ball. Am I incorrect? Seems like I can see this even in your video examples. The chain does not start with the legs, however the upward push is part of the chain.
It is for sure, legs are part of it. I’m making a video relating to this about Rune, coming soon…
It’s important to lead with hip and the buttcap will naturally point forwards. Don’t understand when coaches tell people to point the buttcap when it occurs naturally if you rotate the hips initially. It’s a natural action it shouldn’t be forced.Important to get that lag!
Exactly I agree. This guy doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking. He sounds like broken record “dominated” and “non-dominated hand???
Coach Steven is far better than this useless coach.
Akif M I’m not saying this guy is a bad coach actually quite the opposite I’m saying coaches in general. This guy is fantastic which is why I subscribe to his channel.
If you were to hold your arms stretched out wide forming a T and you started swinging your arms by rotating your torso and letting your arms flail around loosely, your left arm would naturally get out of the way on its on when you go left and vice-versa. Simply continue doing this arm swinging while slowly tilting your right shoulder down so that your torso has a slight tilt. Keep doing this and you'll see the left arm gets out of the way on it's own. Now pick up a racquet and continue the exercise. eventually get to a point where you drop feed a ball and swing the racquet using the same exercise while making contact with the ball out in front. Hold the racquet as loosely as you can get away with. It is important to be relaxed and not hold the racquet too tightly.
The ball will fly off of the racquet with minimal arm swing and the racquet will lag behind on its own because . Dial in the racquet face angle so that the ball lands in the court. It's important not to lift the head too early - if the ball goes out or in the net, adjust the angle, but maintain the fluidity and smoothness of the stroke.
good stuff
Is the dominant shoulder still in front at contact in a closed stance?
Yes absolutely
You said that the chain starts top to bottom. How would you use leg drive to still do the chain correctly? Is there a way to push off the ground to initiate the chain because all the pros seem to push off the ground to initiate the chain amd dont just use their legs at the end.
Just wanted to ask is there an inverse movement in that is the racquet still going back while the hips are turning forward.
Also players such as Monfils, which seems more noticeable, take the racquet outside the incoming ball flight and then on the forward swing are hitting out forward at a 45 degree angle which would be like a figure eight type motion. Agassi had a similar type motion but it is more difficult to pick up in Federer's swing.
I know what you mean Rharrell, on very powerful forehands the tip of the racquet will point behind the player on the lag. It’s a result of acceleration. I more visible on some players with a certain racquet drop but they all have it , even WTA
Is the dominant shoulder in front in the two handed backhand as well?
It is not Kabir
th-cam.com/video/ELEfNZrg-qw/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/waHQG1sSYsI/w-d-xo.html
My racquet doesn't seem to drop enough when I make the backwards loop... why would that be..?
Where do I send my check Nick 😂 Can you please do a video on forehand elbow spacing
HI Nick: How do you practice that crucial timing of racket drop and non dominant arm pulling back ?
I was taught forehand in the late '70 with the closed stance. Maybe this is why many recreational players have this shoulder position problem? Being sideways you can't have your dominant shoulder be in front of you while hitting. I think many trainers today still teach the "closed stance", thus preventing the dominant shoulder being in front. Am I right?
Yes being sideways will result in a linear swing.
I hit with a closed stance, but am able to get the dominant shoulder in front at point of contact. This happens as the hips rotate and the back foot pivots on the big toe.
I'm confused about this. It makes more sense to me that you are initiating a forward rotation movement with the dominant arm shoulder, rather than initiating with the non-dominant arm/shoulder getting out of the way. I've heard from many instructors to "swing from the shoulder" and that implies initiating rotation with the dominant arm shoulder to me. Incorrect?
Hi Eric, focus on the syncing the off arm with the racquet drop and you have a chance to make proper contact with the dominant shoulder in front and you will likely swing across the body. The shoulders are rotating in unison and you should focus on the one that leads the way that being the non-dominant one. Here’s what happens if you fail to make proper contact:
th-cam.com/video/MAqAcqsAatQ/w-d-xo.html
What forehand do you usually use coach?
It looks like your initiating your down swing with your arm .... IMO ... you should be activating your lower body first specifically the hips ... you have a nice looking swing , but have a power leak because of this
Agreed!
I am going to have to agree with Bruno here.
Great content as always, one question: at the end of the takeback or start of the forward pull are you twisting your wrist to the right (ulnar deviation)? When doing this my forehand seems to be more consistent.
Not consciously, my wrist is set in the loop, from there it remains constant. It does get jerked backwards a little in the beginning of the forward phase
How do you avoid over rotation/spinning too much on the forehand?
Solid foundation/wide base + correct sequencing + timing
Hi there Nicky, I've been following you for a while and am a huge fan. I have a question which I'm hoping you can clarify for me. There a different opinions out there on whether, from the point of the take back and into the forward motion, we are rotating the body on a horizontal plane (like a c shape) in order to get to the contact point and then from contact up on the ball across the body and over our opposite shoulder (for direction & spin)? I' have the same back swing and timing as you have previously demonstrated, however, prior to contact point I m coming from low to high (getting under the ball like bowling motion) and then up and across... is this worth changing? Can this be more efficient if using the horizontal plane. Are there pro's and con's of both?
Hi Kylie, coming underneath the ball is fine. I’ll cover it in future videos in more detail but you’re good...
Please notice how your arm is bent and compare this agains Federer or Nadal or Alkaraz forehand
So you have a backhand version?
I will make
Is that possible that the bent elbow in the stroke causes inner elbow pain? I have the exact movement that it is shown in the video, but in the past few days I've been suffering from this annoying pain in the inner elbow. In today pratice I tried to change the stroke to a more straight right arm, but I lost tons of top spin and consequently the control of where the ball lands. So, considering a suposition and that I have the exact stroke that it is shown in this video, what could be the cause of this pain I have? Thank you for the great video btw!
Hi Felipe, I don’t know what the pain is from, but the vast majority of high level forehands use the bent arm. So I doubt that this is the cause. I would always look at string, grip size and type of frame as the causation of pain before doing any technical changes
@@IntuitiveTennis I use a wilson blade v7 18x20 (which is a rather flex racket) with a volkl cyclone 17 full bed stringed at 50lb. I don't believe that my set up is harmful for me considering that I am 28. Any step of the movement, if done wrong, could cause strain or tension in this inner elbow part? For example: late contact with the ball or shoulder position during the contact, etc. What do you think?
It could be. Sounds like you have golfers elbow. I’ve had it (it went away after a few months), it was after I switched to Babolat after playing with Wilson for 20 years. I know John Isner has had it. You could have hurt yourself with a bad stroke. Best to see a doctor.
you were so young here!
did you switch to the new pure aero?
I used to play with pure aero but it’s tough on my arm, can’t use it in matches anymore.
would you ever switch to the new one? it's pretty much a pure drive now.
I have the new one, 2015 pure drive easy on my arm
Hey Nik, I' ve noticed that you like to hit quite flat. I have a question about it. Is it still adviceble to drop the racquet a little bit under the level of the ball when hitting from the baseline, or can one hit completely flat and still have margin also at waiste height? I have a western grip and to really make the ball travel fast I noticed that I really have to hit as much flat as I can really. wondering to know what you think
Hi tennis92,
Spin is created at contact when the racquet travels vertically over the ball. Coming underneath the ball can help this swing path but is not necessary.
@@IntuitiveTennis thanks a lot. Is there a video where you explain this concept? It' s very interesting cause I can' t really figure out what the difference between the two examples you brought. I'm sure there is a big difference and I' d really appreciate to watch a video about this; that' d be awesome!
I get into it here th-cam.com/video/K4RGNRqfi54/w-d-xo.html
And here th-cam.com/video/UvzPS01Qp7Y/w-d-xo.html
And here th-cam.com/video/DnphtxmN4bE/w-d-xo.html
Will be making a future video as well
How is Boris Becker s forehand different to the modern forehand?
It’s modern
@@IntuitiveTennis you are correct. Many players feel that the modern forehand has to have a semi western grip at least and a windscreen wiper. I love the becker forehand. Its the one coaches should teach club players. federer style is too hard to master
i'll be honest. You make it work but this is not my favorite forehand out there. It seems stiff, the elbow is too bent, and it comes out too flat. not much loose wrist lag
you make up for it with superb experience and accuracy
Hi, thanks for your videos. One thing I noticed from slow playing your videos (seen at 3:08 as well) is your bent arm (a "square U" shape 2:05) with the right elbow leading the swing forward. TBH for me, your swing and contact looks to be painful if someone hits you hard balls or if you are trying to hit the ball hard the arm looks "segmented". I like the tip about the dominant shoulder leading and top-down kinetic chain message.
95% percent of high level players (99% women) hit with a bent arm. th-cam.com/video/ceOnxq1QLss/w-d-xo.html
There is no correlation btw arm injuries and hitting with a bent arm
In fact I’ve never had arm pain in 35 years of playing tennis
I would like to get a video stroke analysis. I do not like to give my creditcard number. Any chance to use PayPal?
Sure contact me through email, all info on my website
To me, Jack Sock, IMO one of the best forehands, looks like a more linear stroke, not very loopy.
Sock, like Khachanov, Kyrgios, Thiem, etc., has a nextgen forehand, not a modern forehand. The technique is very different.
Nikola, I love your videos but am thinking I'm misunderstanding your top-down theory.
First, the portion of the kinetic chain that matters would seem to start at the first forward movement of the racquet, not during the takeback. Maybe that is what you're saying.
Second, I pulled up a court level, side-view, matchplay video of Federer, and cannot for the life of me see the legs being last in the chain: th-cam.com/video/nSmXkmTxQ0c/w-d-xo.html To me the hips move first and that is only possible if force is put through the feet to turn the hips. The leg force can be all horizontal, not necessarily vertical/jumping.
Here's an airborne forehand from the same video: th-cam.com/video/nSmXkmTxQ0c/w-d-xo.html This time I see the legs extend with vertical force first, the hips rotate, then the shoulders turn last. Contact is still out in front, so he's not making that crucial mistake you've brought to light regarding most club players.
What am I missing?
Federer’s forehand or any other forehand at the high level is executed how I described it in the video. Dominant hip is behind the non dominant hip every time. On high forehands there will be a straightening of the entire body to adjust to the higher contact occurring simultaneously with the off hand initiating the torso rotation.
@Kolya-The-Vodka-Guzzler very easy to see, you are right
I think you two are considering different phases of the stroke when thinking of the kinetic chain.
Nikola considers the whole phase from letting go the racket from the non-dominant hand until the complete finish of the stroke. You (B'dole 0139) (and I think most of the people) on the other hand consider only the phase from the exact point where the forward swing starts (the left arm is already disconnected from the racket and the racket has already dropped somewhat down here) until the racket makes contact with the ball.
When I look at the phase Nikola considers, the first thing to move is the non-dominant as well as the dominant hand, and the last things that move at the end of the stroke are the hips and the legs (when the player steps/pulls to the side or jumps and lands). And in between you have the torso rotation.
When I look at the phase you consider, the forward swing starts first with a (subtle) push from the legs, which leads to a (subtle) hip drive which then drives the upper body and evenually the arm. And here, it is just important which body parts start to move first, not which body parts turn more and are therefore in front of the other parts. E.g. even though the hips turn first, after contact they are literally overtaken by the also rotating torso, but that happens outside of the phase you consider, so it is not important here. In other words, "your" kinetic chain lays within the kinetic chain Nikola is talking about. And because Nikola 1. is considering a longer phase of the stroke and 2. the movements of the particular body parts (legs, hips, torso...) are much more prominent "outside" of "your" (subtle) kinetic chain (where the actual movements can barely be seen whith the human eye), the "bigger" movements are taken more into consideration and are described as the kinetic chain.
Maybe you can say there is an outer (Nikola's) and an inner (yours) kinetic chain. The particular movements of the body parts in the inner kinetic chain are so subtle and happen so fast that they can only be seen in super slow motion footage (at least for me :)).
So in my opinion both of you are right, you are just not speaking about the same kinetic chain. But that is just my opinion. I hope you could understand my theory.