Despite the spore drive and other advanced tech in Discovery being too advanced for the period, I think the biggest thing that turns a lot of fans off is the look of the Klingon Orcs. Explain the Klingons and it goes a long way to making Discovery more acceptable in canon, so maybe this could do that and also explain the TOS and other Klingon discrepancies? I just saw the first 2 Star Trek Lower Decks episodes, which seem to add weight to the theory since they are using the TNG Klingon look again...! 👍 What do you think?
There are several things that turned me off from watching _STD_ after watching season 1. Mainly, I found it hard to watch, both physically due to the cinematography and intrusive effects, and also emotionally because there was not a single character I could like or relate to on any level. The story was also a wreck, seeing as how instead of being an ensemble story like other _Trek_ series, it all centered around a single character, Michael Burnham, who had to be the best at everything and the saviour of the galaxy, even at the expense of the other characters. There is not a single story beat that does not revolve around her, and when she is not around, Starfleet fails, unquestioningly. Without her, even TOS characters we knew from before like Pike and Spock fail. _STD_ is the Michael Burnham story, and, sadly, like everyone else, she is a jerk.
@@captainrgd1565 Haha i probably should... I've been deliberately not saying much on it tbh as I haven't been 'that' big of a fan and wanted to see the whole season as a whole first. The later episodes are really getting a lot better, but I just can't stand all the swearing and the characters not wanting to work 😂. Although that could actually be part of the arc for some of the characters, with them getting more of a team vibe now in these later eps. I've been watching it with my kids and they laugh at more of the jokes, so it's more up their alley for sure - but all the swearing especially is so off-putting and doesn't give the trek vibe of working together in the future. Love the visual look of the show tho.
This is an elegant explanation that does not just patch a messy and chaotic string of different budgets and artists over the years, but instead puts together a cohesive chain of events that canonically works. If this isn't official, it's definitely still my head canon.
scottgardner: NO it does not and NO it is NOT an elegant explanation! It is insulting to my intelligence and others who grew up with the Original Star Trek series! Have you even watched the original Star Trek series? The Klingons by the time period and events of the original Star Trek series were still more human looking. I am completely disturbed by the ignorance of people on here who think this is a good theory when in fact it is not. I am also starting to believe that most people (such as yourself) who think this is a "good and explainable theory" are people who are under the age of 30 or 40.
@@GeorgeCarlinWasAGod If you must know my credentials, I am 49 and I grew up on TOS. I was there when TNG first premiered. I was in the cinema the first time I saw Spock die, and I cried when the first Enterprise was destroyed over the Genesis planet. You don't have to agree with my head canon, but don't trivialize it with erroneous assumptions coupled with generational snobbery.
@@GeorgeCarlinWasAGod- I'm 47 and watched TOS reruns before TNG debuted and have been watching brand new episodes and every theatrically released movie in the theater since. I find this to be an excellent way to explain things. Even where I disagree and would explain it different, this explanation works and if Paramount is paying attention they should utilize this.
You've put way more effort into it than Alex Kurtzman and Secret Hideout who clearly just make stuff up as they go along and definitively have no secret grand plan.
@@EnPriBri yea, it's really the 4th redesign for the Klingon look. Trump's design was retconned to be explained as it was just 1 family ( good retcon though)
@@gateauxq4604 Yes, but then the Klingon look remained the same for 30 years until Star Trek 2009 decided to change them into orcs for some reason, and then 10 years later Discover turns them into Goblin Neandertals. Fortunately, I really like the reconciliation proposed by this video and I'm more than glad to add it to my head canon. It holds together well.
I just saw a preview for SNW, season 3 and I can safely state, that this video's series of events are so thoughtful and respectful of Star Trek continuity, that if Kurtzman and company should ever see it, they would not appreciate it. With that, I sincerely hope that future showrunners of Star Trek watch this video and take serious notes.
This is actually a VERY well thought out way to explain all of this, and hopefully the writers address this. I would not be surprised to see you nailed it here. Well done!
No it is NOT a very well thought out theory. Apparently you and "Star Trek Theory" have never watched Star Trek: TOS or both of you have forgotten that the Klingons were more human looking in the original Star Trek series. This is insulting to my intelligence. This is a very bad and lame theory which goes against the continuity of "Star Trek TOS" The person who came up with this theory is basically saying that the Klingons had reverted to this odd look they have in Discovery and between the 10 year time period that is between Discovery and "Star Trek: TOS" the Klingons reverted back to their original look which is NOT true because the Klingons were more human looking in the original series. This fact has been completely ignored by the person (Star Trek Theory) who came up with this lame idea (theory.) It would make more sense to say that the Klingons on Discovery are a totally different species of Klingons or better yet it would make even more (better) sense if Discovery was considered 100 percent non-canon.
This is more a “what if Discovery writers were good and knew the lore”. You did an excellent job and would of made a great story. If it sadly better fan fiction than what we actually got in official cannon. Still, well done. Makes sense 👍
Changes in makeup budget. If the producers cared about continuity they would make the Klingons trend toward the TOS look, not the TNG look, but in any case, they're making the changes happen too quickly. It seems they were more scared of turning potential new fans off with an older aesthetic than they were of repelling old fans with an entirely different aesthetic. The latter is what they decided to use.
My feeling is that Bryan Fuller may have had the idea of this genetic Klingon virus in mind when creating Discovery.. but when he left, they forgot about the plot for a while... but I think its in the DNA of the show somehow (pardon the pun), and after they saw the fans negative reaction to the new Klingon look I think they reinstated that original plan. The Klingons in Lower Decks are TNG like, so could indicate a shift in thinking back to using the original look?
@@StarTrekTheory As for _Lower Decks_ , there is definitely a distinct effort to make it look much more like _TNG_ , probably in response to _STP_ being very un-TNG and losing about half its audience from premiere to finale. But _Lower Decks_ lacks the _TNG_ feel because someone (and Starfleet as a whole) is always being put down or looked down upon. Usually, but not always, Boiymler. Especially noteworthy as in episode 3, Captain Freeman is finally fed up with her ship and crew being treated as a joke. Unfortunately for her the _Cerritos_ is a joke, and not one that tastes particularly good. It's even more unfortunate since some sections have been shown to work well together, just as on any other ship in the fleet (such as the Engineering shift Rutherford works with). But as a whole, it's very easy for the _Cerritos_ to be rendered completely non-functional due to the dysfunctional crew. Honestly, I do not understand being entertained by watching this type of dysfunction. The crew had better just hope the ship doesn't break down during an actual crisis or battle, or they'll all be doomed. The _Cerritos_ does not have a competent Mikey Spock aboard to save them, after all. I'm not sure the writers understand the differences or divisions between Tactical, Engineering, and Science either, seeing as how the ensigns are regularly shown in the midst of mixed tasks. If it was a cross-training assignment that would be one thing, but it's a regular occurrence on this show. I'm having trouble figuring out what the writers want _Lower Decks_ to be, as far as the _Cerritos_ and her crew go. So far _Lower Decks_ is not impressing me, and I usually only give a TV show 3 episodes to do so. But episode 3 is starting to look less like _The Mariner Show_ and starting to feel a bit more like _Trek_ . So I'll give it a bit longer in the hopes that the _TNG_ and _DS9_ DNA can take hold over the _STD_ and _STP_ DNA that seems to insist on putting people down.
@@BNuts Can't say i disagree with you... Lower Decks is a bit hit and miss in areas... Ensign Mariner is the hardest to understand (literally and figuratively), she speaks so fast and she seems so anti-starfleet in everything she does... but maybe thats the point? where the show hits, it hits well though... like ep3 with the Ransom fight, ep2 with the klingon planet, ep1 with the zombies.. all fun... so it could have a lot of promise! I'm just thankful they are using the TNG look and feel again, but that should just be a given and not a plus 😂
You can be sure the writers of Discovery did not plan this explanation. But I think it's the only plausible way to bring them back to recognizable Klingons. Better yet, retcon out all Trek from 2009 onward and start again.
Bah humbug...it was ridiculous to change the look of the Klingons. If they wanted to go with that look, they should have just made a different alien race. It is not only their features, but the ornate surroundings and weaponry. We saw Kahless’ bat’leth in the DS9 episode “Sword of Kahless”, and it didn’t look anything like the frilly things used in ST Discovery. The Klingons were warriors, their weapons were sleek and efficient, not for show. I think the redesign was as abominable as it was unnecessary.
Totally agree, if it was a new alien race no one would mind. I really get the sense they thought they were doing fans a service by redesigning/modernizing the Klingons 😂. As if no one had the ability to do that before... but it backfired massively with the fans. Personally I just hope they find a way to bring back the old design and explain away the Discovery look (perhaps in a construct like in this video). If you look at the newer series, Picard and Lower Decks, the Klingons are back to how they were, which supports the theory that the DSC Klingons were an oddity in the timeline.
Ok. Now that I've officially been through the series (so far) a couple times, I lesson my disbelief of them as klingons. I can now see them as such if the empire is in shambles compared to what we know of them as during the golden. With that said. I still find it hard to believe that in just 100-150ish years they are able to transform thier whole breeding population into "normal" looking klingons. At this point, having grown on to the series, I'm just number this is a thing that I'm hung up on. I wish they didn't even have this as some easter egg series long transformation.
In the FASA Star Trek stuff from the 80's, the TOS Klingons were explained as being Klingons that were genetically engineered. The ridged Klingons were the Imperial race, the TOS Klingons were the Human fusion, and there were even Romulan fusions. I really like this idea. The Klingons use the DNA of their enemies to better combat that enemy.
That would be cool to see Romulan-Klingons 😂. Although actually there was that one episode where Worf found the group of Klingons that got captured and their offspring were half Romulan. The idea that they use the DNA of their enemies to better understand them is fascinating.
Here's the thing with Discovery. The writers never watched a previous version of Trek. Not only that, they outright mocked the idea and decided they would go off in their own little creative world, therefore draining the timeline of believability, while at the same time Paramount still had a hate affair going with Trek and would not allow the use of traditional Trek costumes and common Trek props we're all used to. The whole Discovery timeline will someday be completely debunked and nullified as Seven of Nine wakes up from a nightmare and will have dreamed the entire series. Hopefully.
I think they could have done well as their own thing. Not a star trek, just another sci fi show. Everything would be a lot easier if they just did that. But it's hard in a world of sequels and spinoffs and cinematic universes...
I thought exactly the same thing so your theory is really good, i thought if they explained it by saying they were genetically engineered and they are the ancestors of the ancient klingons with precursor dna as it can be passed on
The nice thing about it being a genetic experiment during that period is it would also allow Worf to come back in Picard with his original makeup (not Discovery makeup) since the Klingons would have reverted back to their old look by that time...
Kor was seen as the same character with different physical appearances in TOS & DS9. Designers on TOS/TMP have said that we should see TOS as having stage-play quality sets & props. New series look better as a result of modern budget & tech, not a change to canon. Enterprise messed all that up by trying to over-explain things - Discovery then lit it all on fire.
I hope this gets corrected in some way when Klingons inevitably appear on SNW. They seem to have a better vision than Discovery. I could see Klingons looking this way 1,000s of years ago, or perhaps a remnant sub-group of primitive Klingons. But not in the TOS era. I want to see some gold shirts and Cossack boots again!
Great video! This actually filled a lot of continuity gaps for me. I do have 1 theory to add for the TOS Klingons. What if, during this time, the Klingons were so secretive and xenophobic that they chose to use the augment Klingons as the "face" of the Empire to throw off other species to cover their embarrassment (which would be akin to a sin)? Because of how many drastic they've changed, and "damaged" themselves they smoke screen it with the augments, hiding their shame, but also giving an arrogant snub to outsiders. We've seen other species hiding behind masks and "filters", maybe this was their version. Or I could be completely wrong. Lol
To quote David St.Hubbins (This is Spinal Tap) "I think you're rationalising this whole thing like it's something they did on purpose. I think we're stuck with a very stupid and dismal-looking Klingons" :-) :-) :-) kudos for the effort though
A couple major issues i'm noticing 1. it was a single colony that was effected not the entire empire 2. into darkness is the kelvin timeline NOT the main timeline 3. Dax's comrades all canonically had Cranial Restoration . . .
You only focusing on looks. The problem with STD is more then just the changes to the Klingon's looks. They changed the culture too. For example, The soul is only thing that matter to the Klingons. After death the body is nothing but husk and unimportant. In STD, the Klingons were collect bodies after the battle. Why just not preform a Death Howl and move on? What changed? Then there was how L'Rell became Chancellor. Using a terrorist threat to gain power. No Klingon warrior would accept such an act of dishonor. Did she not fear that using such dishonorable ways would keep her out of Sto-Vo-Kor?
Even though we all know it wasn't. Rodenberry even said he didn't have the money to make Klingons look different in TOS and we should just imagine they did, then next generation added that scene with Warf talking about it being a big thing.
It could also be that some TOS era klingons chose to keep the human look because it was valuable to the Empire for infiltrating the Federation. Or it could be that the genetic tinkering required needed a certain genetic profile that not all klingons possessed, or that it was unaffordable for all klingons.
You hit the nail when you said the makeup team went overboard. Then, someone decided to retcon the look, after the backlash. 100 years for such drastic appearance changes, is much too short of time. That’s only three generation, four tops. I barely look different than my great grandma, let alone the -massive- changes in appearance suggested by Discovery. Everything about this series so far, is about being bigger, more, louder, stronger, and so in, than any Trek prior. It’s monotonous.
i think you may have just redeemed discovery for me and i may start watching it again, i could only stand about 2 episodes of it cause of how the klingons looked
You need to go back and give season 1 another watch. The Klingons have a lot of depth in Discovery. Culturally, the discovery Klingons are much better. The main reason everybody loves the TnG Klingons and are so nostalgic about them is because of Worf.
I like it! i think simply waving away such a massive change in look as merely a different production teams 'interpretation' of Klingon's simply isn't good enough, this needs a canon explanation and yours is the best I've heard! Although, I'm not sure I can see a cult of Voq followers wanting to look more human, but I could see large infiltrator groups using the augment virus to temporarily appear human, but without Voq's extreme internal surgery - that's more or less exactly what happens with Arne Darvin in 'The trouble with Tribbles'! Also, perhaps everyone onboard Klingon ships which operate in or near Federation space get augmented to be potential infiltrators, that would explain why the TOS crew only ever see human style Klingons! ...okay, I may be too close to the Terminator franchise here! :-)
Cheers dr-nerd! I know what you mean about Voq, that’s probably the most speculative part. Imo L’Rell used the augment virus on him to get half way there, then changed his internals to be fully human so that was an extreme version of it. But just using the augment virus on klingons could get them to look human like (without ridges) but still be klingons internally. It could be that Darvin was another Ash Tyler, fully changed? But the tribbles could see/smell through his disguise even with internals now appearing human. Your idea about Klingons on the border becoming human like could work too, although I bet VOQ would be involved somehow in that still (I.e. he proved being a human looking Klingon gets humans to work with you 😂).
No matter how much people try the simple fact is that std/jjverse exists outside of the already established 50 years of trek canon, this also applies to the upcoming Pike series. The creators of this bizarro world simply are ignoring what Star Trek is in favor of doing this trash.
klingons have always changed wildly in appearance, the only "divisive" thing about Discovery is agreeing how bad it is..the mental gymnastics you are going through while avoiding the fact make up budget and technique has changed since the 60s
I really like this video. I struggled with STD (gave up in season 2) the show just seemed like a series of random things happening. But a freind recomended s3. Videos like this help because, the more coherent the show is the more I want to watch it!
Thx! I’ve been piecing it together for myself also 😂. Recently I’ve been rewatching S1 and S2 and I noticed there’s far more consistency than first realized. It’s a much more kinetic show than old Trek... the trick is to watch with subtitles 😉
It's easy to look at fictional groups as monolith, but we have to also consider things like faction dynamics, which is a really good point in this theory. If I'm remembering the series correctly, I would also suggest T'kuvma's group as being a cult that wanted the extremes of reverting to become true Klingons, whereas the majority of society probably wouldn't have gone that far.
That's lovely except officially stated many times it's not the case. Also Kelvin timeline wouldn't explain how another species/empire is completely completely different.
They don’t look like regular Klingons and the Klingons around the time of the original series should actually look human. Which would be pretty easy for makeup artists.
i found it really hard to get on board with the new series because of the klingons. for me they were such an iconic part of my childhood star trek viewing . it would be interesting if this proves to the reason behind it all.
I always assumed they didn't want any link to the past Star Trek series. Having Klingons look the same should remind everyone of the Next Generation and we can't have that.
10:22 Voq wasn't just made to look human, but to look like the real Ash Tyler. An actual Starfleet officer who was captured and eventually killed by the Klingons and whose memories and personality were implanted in Voq, until of course, Voq's original personality was completely "erased". Also, the Klingon Augment Virus wasn't involved as they even explain his change in appearance as being due to really advanced surgery (they drop terms like "scar tissue" and we also see them perform gruesome surgery on hin in the very flashbacks you show here). Other than that though, I like this theory, and part of me hopes they address this in SNW, but I don't think it's likely and prefer them to pretty much ignore "Affliction" and "Divergence" or make something really cool, like the "underclass" of Human looking Klingons do a coup and subjugate the "normal" Klingons for a decade or so. This could also account for them being a wee bit chummy with the Klingons at the end of Discovery Season 2 and by the time of TOS in a bitter state of Cold War.
I've thought this so many times. Set it in the 26th century, make the exterior of the ship sleeker and almost all issues with the series melt away. So silly they didn't. So easy to do so.
ST Enterprise explained the difference between the TOS and TNG Klingon look. We then saw different Klingons in the Kelvin timeline that weren’t explained. Then we saw more different Klingons in Discovery. Now SNW shows us Klingons that are similar to the TNG Klingons. Following the ST Enterprise timeline, the Discovery and SNW Klingons should have looked like the TOS Klingons, who apparently reverted to the TNG Klingons by the time of the TOS theatrical movies 🤔
I enjoyed the new look, they looked more alien. Great theory, makes since. One issue Chris Pine Star Trek takes place in the Kelvin timeline not prime. My theory was, different subspecies of Klingon. You got me beat. ;)
While in the past showrunners might have wanted to address such inconsistencies. The showrunners for Discovery are just trying to tear Star Trek apart and remake it. So I seriously doubt there will be any attempt to address this going forward.
The only problem with your theory is that Discovery & Picard are not in the TOS universe no matter what the producers tell us. It`s got to be an alternate timeline.
@Mina Minamizaki The Technology & ship design is so different and the Klingons seem like a totally different species from the Abrams -verse . That`s My reasoning . If you can explain that I`ll get on board with you but in the meantime, yeah I`m suffering with you.
@Mina Minamizaki Yes, but I think the design choices are what make it seem like another universe. Way too advanced even for TNG. I was trying to give this a chance as far as the Klingons go with their redesign. I was hoping that they would say that these were the original Klingons & the ones we`re familiar with were their hybrid off-spring from interbreeding. That the hybrids somehow overthrew & exterminated the originals. A Klingon Civil War would have been a great story-line & a way to explain the obvious differences.
I think they were pulled from Kirk's and the others minds and they only knew what Klingons with the human augment DNA looked like but knew some klingon history.
I just got the impression that the ones designing the klingons had never watched TOS startrek and startrek enterprise. They had no idea what they were doing.
For the record Neanderthals evolved along side humans. They aren't an earlier form of human, but a parallel hominid species of the genus Homo. A more accurate example would be Homo Erectus or even Australopithecus.
I don't know if the shows need to go into this much detail to explain it, but I agree that some character should at least note that the Klingons had been experimenting with genetics over the last century to reverse the effects of the Augment virus, with mixed results. A ten-second remark would be sufficient on screen, and the tie-in novels could fuss over the details.
Wouldn't explain the vast difference in size and shape of the vessels and customs/culture but I suppose it wouldn't have been nice they tried a little.
I was given to understand that the hair explanation in Discovery was that Klingons shave their heads in wartime. That doesn't really line up with what we see in other shows, but I distinctly recall that being the explanation they gave for bald Klingons.
My theory on this is they were messing with the genetics to recover the ridges and succeeded after a couple failed attempts which lead them to look like orcs. The final antidote will slowly bring the human and the orc back to their original looks but Kor and Klang were both in space on a patrol where they were unable to get the antidote during the Trouble with Tribbles episode.
I like your theory, but you can’t count the 2009 Star Trek movies (into Darkness) because that is set in an alternate timeline and we can’t account for those Klingons and their actions. IF Discovery is set in the Original series timeline, you can’t account for anything done in the Abram’s movies. I like everything else you theorize but I just can’t get on board with anything from the Abram’s movies.
You always piece these theories together in a meaningful way. Personally I accept the Discovery Klingon redesign independently and enjoy the contrast. Think the design change was part of the Paramount vs. CBS design properties that arouse. We've seen redesigned Federation uniforms and the Enterprise do to those copyrights. That said I do think your theory works so well, all I can say it's great to always see things evolve.
Thanks, really appreciate it! I think you’re probably right, it was just done as a visual reboot originally... although maybe there’s still wriggle room in there for the writers to tie things together eventually? I have to say I’m starting to think of Discovery as being in an alternate timeline now, especially with all the S3 future stuff, but it’s definately fun to theorize about it all 😂. Thx again for the great comment!
It’s great they took Discovery into the future, it opens up room for a distinct new identity. Moving forward with Strange New Worlds is the best thing for that classic timeline. Being a Trekkie since childhood in the early 70’s what I can say is it’s always great to get more Star Trek.
This makes so much more sense than the explanation given by the producers of the show "We wanted to change their looks and make them look more sexy and alien"! There's still a few loose ends where the timelines are concerned since the producers and director have stated that these Klingons have no direct link to the Kelvin Timeline Klingons in "Into Darkness". But still, I like the fact that you've added in that movie reference (even though it was produced by Jar Jar Abrahams, yes I'm bias). What makes even more sense is the fact that since it's stated in your video that one of the Houses have the original Augment Virus, it would make sense that these "zealot-type", radical Klingons (and this would be another theory), seeing that they were a doomed House, could have enacted a Maquis-esk tactic (DS9), launching torpedo warhead strikes on the Klingon-controlled worlds with the augment virus (An "If we cannot control the Empire, then you will all suffer as we have" ideology). Upper-atmosphere detonation would then spread the virus and infect a majority of the population, and we've seen just how effective and quick the virus infects and spreads. That would explain for the relatively short timeframe between Enterprise to Discovery, then to TOS.
oooh I like the idea of the augment Klingon house attacking others using the virus... it could transform any remaining klingons, maybe during some kind of civil war, to their augment look... great idea!
@@StarTrekTheory Knowing some of Klingon politics, it would make sense that there'd be a civil war once a group tried to come to power without the support of the Council (House Duras hammered those nails in their coffin quite often throughout the series)
It’s too bad they don’t look the way they should because it would be cool if we saw many Klingons with the human look and maybe have a few with small ridges growing back on their foreheads.
If they had features like that no Klingons would ever accept them the Klingons are a very proud species and don’t take kindly to outcasts they only respect pure bloods unless you have a blood oath or something like that I forgot what it was really called but they probably would accept them if they were born on they’re world or were a great warrior lol
though giving them hair helped the look of klingons in DISCO a fair bit they still look way different from literally every other trek klingons, before and after (klingons appear as their TNG-ENT style both in Lower Decks and Prodigy, no news for Picard or SNW yet on how they'll be represented). Moreso as we should be in the era of TOS era kligons, where many of them look mostly human which Enterprise found a good way to make work without just handwaving it as "we had an actual makeup budget in the 80's/90's But one thing that gives me hope, it was a blink and you'll miss it type background character, on the queen's ship at the end of Discovery's second season there's a guy who gets a couple shots who looks like a TNG-era klingon with DISCO era makeup. Like a perfect mix, what we all would have wanted. S2-E14: Such Sweet Sorrow part 2, at about 26:45 for a good look. Honestly if they just mix in TNG, TOS, and DISCO era klingons together for Strange New Worlds I think I could learn to just deal with them, put some DISCO klingons in with TNG ones if they pop up in Picard, Prodigy, or Lower Decks, just make them a subset of the larger race. But just saying "this is them now, deal with it" was really something that hurt DISCO in the beginning. But this theory is very concise, I like it a lot! Also, for any tabletop fans, the Star Trek Adventures Klingon Corebook has a bit of neat lore on how TOS era klingons were treated by the empire.
I prefer the idea of a counter virus to adjust the cartilage that dreates ridges that went out of control. A revamped augment virus could have been the response, perhaps by L'rells' house, to counter the disunity that having seperate houses look like different species.
Great theory... so why are the Klingons orcs 10 years before tos, then they revert back to smooth tos era? Your theory would make more sense if they looked like this post tos pre tmp...
The virus didn’t spread throughout the empire. The vaccine that doctor phlox created removed the cranial ridges and they needed to spread the vaccine throughout the empire. What is also possible is that it only lasts several decades before the ridges come back because Kor, Khang and Koloth all have their cranial ridges in DS9.
Maybe Klingons are like some animals we have tamed, if you let them back out to nature they start growing longer tusks or nails and become more agressive. As a specific warrior race it would be possible that their bodies also become more intimidating depending their state of conflict, the augment dna could even be responsible for that, or like you suggested, they messed with their own dna to become even more intimidating in battle and after the discovery conflict they stopped doing it and started reverting back to 'peacefull mode'.
So I like this theory a lot but there one thing that I'm gonna make a comment about, it been said (in other media) that high council and other higher born families used anyway to get their ridges back so I can see the common Klingons not being able to afford or get access to these treatments
Despite the spore drive and other advanced tech in Discovery being too advanced for the period, I think the biggest thing that turns a lot of fans off is the look of the Klingon Orcs. Explain the Klingons and it goes a long way to making Discovery more acceptable in canon, so maybe this could do that and also explain the TOS and other Klingon discrepancies? I just saw the first 2 Star Trek Lower Decks episodes, which seem to add weight to the theory since they are using the TNG Klingon look again...! 👍 What do you think?
There are several things that turned me off from watching _STD_ after watching season 1. Mainly, I found it hard to watch, both physically due to the cinematography and intrusive effects, and also emotionally because there was not a single character I could like or relate to on any level. The story was also a wreck, seeing as how instead of being an ensemble story like other _Trek_ series, it all centered around a single character, Michael Burnham, who had to be the best at everything and the saviour of the galaxy, even at the expense of the other characters. There is not a single story beat that does not revolve around her, and when she is not around, Starfleet fails, unquestioningly. Without her, even TOS characters we knew from before like Pike and Spock fail. _STD_ is the Michael Burnham story, and, sadly, like everyone else, she is a jerk.
ANNOYED by Lower Decks.
When are you going to react or review Star Trek Lower Decks, their first season is already done?
@@captainrgd1565 Haha i probably should... I've been deliberately not saying much on it tbh as I haven't been 'that' big of a fan and wanted to see the whole season as a whole first. The later episodes are really getting a lot better, but I just can't stand all the swearing and the characters not wanting to work 😂. Although that could actually be part of the arc for some of the characters, with them getting more of a team vibe now in these later eps. I've been watching it with my kids and they laugh at more of the jokes, so it's more up their alley for sure - but all the swearing especially is so off-putting and doesn't give the trek vibe of working together in the future. Love the visual look of the show tho.
When will you do new videos?
This is an elegant explanation that does not just patch a messy and chaotic string of different budgets and artists over the years, but instead puts together a cohesive chain of events that canonically works. If this isn't official, it's definitely still my head canon.
scottgardner: NO it does not and NO it is NOT an elegant explanation! It is insulting to my intelligence and others who grew up with the Original Star Trek series!
Have you even watched the original Star Trek series? The Klingons by the time period and events of the original Star Trek series were still more human looking. I am completely disturbed by the ignorance of people on here who think this is a good theory when in fact it is not. I am also starting to believe that most people (such as yourself) who think this is a "good and explainable theory" are people who are under the age of 30 or 40.
@@GeorgeCarlinWasAGod If you must know my credentials, I am 49 and I grew up on TOS. I was there when TNG first premiered. I was in the cinema the first time I saw Spock die, and I cried when the first Enterprise was destroyed over the Genesis planet. You don't have to agree with my head canon, but don't trivialize it with erroneous assumptions coupled with generational snobbery.
@@GeorgeCarlinWasAGod- I'm 47 and watched TOS reruns before TNG debuted and have been watching brand new episodes and every theatrically released movie in the theater since. I find this to be an excellent way to explain things. Even where I disagree and would explain it different, this explanation works and if Paramount is paying attention they should utilize this.
You've put way more effort into it than Alex Kurtzman and Secret Hideout who clearly just make stuff up as they go along and definitively have no secret grand plan.
Granted, that is how the ridge *addition* was for like decades
@@EnPriBri yea, it's really the 4th redesign for the Klingon look. Trump's design was retconned to be explained as it was just 1 family ( good retcon though)
The Klingons got their ridges in Star Trek The Motion Picture. I remember when that caused a stir from when Klingons were last seen in Star Trek TOS.
People forgetting that Star Trek been stirrin shit with fans since 1979 😂
@@gateauxq4604 Yes, but then the Klingon look remained the same for 30 years until Star Trek 2009 decided to change them into orcs for some reason, and then 10 years later Discover turns them into Goblin Neandertals.
Fortunately, I really like the reconciliation proposed by this video and I'm more than glad to add it to my head canon. It holds together well.
I do remember when the first Motion Picture premiere on tv, my mother clearly "I don't remember the Klingons looking like that".
The evil bigger budget is responsible! Lol
*"Hello there! Oh sorry I'm i trolling the wrong franchise, my apologies?"*
Hello there! 😂
:D
General Kenobi
Weirdo
You are a bold one...
This would make pretty much everything cool canon wise, however that's not what the Discovery design team intended.
Agreed 💯
yeah the klingons were redesigned only for the sake of being redesigned.
I just saw a preview for SNW, season 3 and I can safely state, that this video's series of events are so thoughtful and respectful of Star Trek continuity, that if Kurtzman and company should ever see it, they would not appreciate it. With that, I sincerely hope that future showrunners of Star Trek watch this video and take serious notes.
This is actually a VERY well thought out way to explain all of this, and hopefully the writers address this. I would not be surprised to see you nailed it here. Well done!
Thanks! Appreciate it
The writes only want you to watch the show and not care about anything else.
No it is NOT a very well thought out theory. Apparently you and "Star Trek Theory" have never watched Star Trek: TOS or both of you have forgotten that the Klingons were more human looking in the original Star Trek series. This is insulting to my intelligence.
This is a very bad and lame theory which goes against the continuity of "Star Trek TOS" The person who came up with this theory is basically saying that the Klingons had reverted to this odd look they have in Discovery and between the 10 year time period that is between Discovery and "Star Trek: TOS" the Klingons reverted back to their original look which is NOT true because the Klingons were more human looking in the original series. This fact has been completely ignored by the person (Star Trek Theory) who came up with this lame idea (theory.)
It would make more sense to say that the Klingons on Discovery are a totally different species of Klingons or better yet it would make even more (better) sense if Discovery was considered 100 percent non-canon.
I haven't experienced this level of mental gymnastics since I left Sunday School.
This is more a “what if Discovery writers were good and knew the lore”. You did an excellent job and would of made a great story. If it sadly better fan fiction than what we actually got in official cannon. Still, well done. Makes sense 👍
Two words for this whole video “Wishful Thinking”
That theory holds together fairly well - I've seen much more convoluted ones! 😉
It will be interesting to see what Klingons look like in PIC
Thanks! I wonder if we will see any ‘future’ Klingons in Discovery S3 also? Fingers crossed they are normal hehe 😉
Agreed, good theory. It even makes the changes palpable
Changes in makeup budget.
If the producers cared about continuity they would make the Klingons trend toward the TOS look, not the TNG look, but in any case, they're making the changes happen too quickly. It seems they were more scared of turning potential new fans off with an older aesthetic than they were of repelling old fans with an entirely different aesthetic. The latter is what they decided to use.
My feeling is that Bryan Fuller may have had the idea of this genetic Klingon virus in mind when creating Discovery.. but when he left, they forgot about the plot for a while... but I think its in the DNA of the show somehow (pardon the pun), and after they saw the fans negative reaction to the new Klingon look I think they reinstated that original plan. The Klingons in Lower Decks are TNG like, so could indicate a shift in thinking back to using the original look?
@@StarTrekTheory As for _Lower Decks_ , there is definitely a distinct effort to make it look much more like _TNG_ , probably in response to _STP_ being very un-TNG and losing about half its audience from premiere to finale. But _Lower Decks_ lacks the _TNG_ feel because someone (and Starfleet as a whole) is always being put down or looked down upon. Usually, but not always, Boiymler.
Especially noteworthy as in episode 3, Captain Freeman is finally fed up with her ship and crew being treated as a joke. Unfortunately for her the _Cerritos_ is a joke, and not one that tastes particularly good. It's even more unfortunate since some sections have been shown to work well together, just as on any other ship in the fleet (such as the Engineering shift Rutherford works with). But as a whole, it's very easy for the _Cerritos_ to be rendered completely non-functional due to the dysfunctional crew.
Honestly, I do not understand being entertained by watching this type of dysfunction. The crew had better just hope the ship doesn't break down during an actual crisis or battle, or they'll all be doomed. The _Cerritos_ does not have a competent Mikey Spock aboard to save them, after all.
I'm not sure the writers understand the differences or divisions between Tactical, Engineering, and Science either, seeing as how the ensigns are regularly shown in the midst of mixed tasks. If it was a cross-training assignment that would be one thing, but it's a regular occurrence on this show. I'm having trouble figuring out what the writers want _Lower Decks_ to be, as far as the _Cerritos_ and her crew go.
So far _Lower Decks_ is not impressing me, and I usually only give a TV show 3 episodes to do so. But episode 3 is starting to look less like _The Mariner Show_ and starting to feel a bit more like _Trek_ . So I'll give it a bit longer in the hopes that the _TNG_ and _DS9_ DNA can take hold over the _STD_ and _STP_ DNA that seems to insist on putting people down.
@@BNuts Can't say i disagree with you... Lower Decks is a bit hit and miss in areas... Ensign Mariner is the hardest to understand (literally and figuratively), she speaks so fast and she seems so anti-starfleet in everything she does... but maybe thats the point? where the show hits, it hits well though... like ep3 with the Ransom fight, ep2 with the klingon planet, ep1 with the zombies.. all fun... so it could have a lot of promise! I'm just thankful they are using the TNG look and feel again, but that should just be a given and not a plus 😂
You can be sure the writers of Discovery did not plan this explanation. But I think it's the only plausible way to bring them back to recognizable Klingons. Better yet, retcon out all Trek from 2009 onward and start again.
Bah humbug...it was ridiculous to change the look of the Klingons. If they wanted to go with that look, they should have just made a different alien race. It is not only their features, but the ornate surroundings and weaponry. We saw Kahless’ bat’leth in the DS9 episode “Sword of Kahless”, and it didn’t look anything like the frilly things used in ST Discovery. The Klingons were warriors, their weapons were sleek and efficient, not for show. I think the redesign was as abominable as it was unnecessary.
Totally agree, if it was a new alien race no one would mind. I really get the sense they thought they were doing fans a service by redesigning/modernizing the Klingons 😂. As if no one had the ability to do that before... but it backfired massively with the fans.
Personally I just hope they find a way to bring back the old design and explain away the Discovery look (perhaps in a construct like in this video). If you look at the newer series, Picard and Lower Decks, the Klingons are back to how they were, which supports the theory that the DSC Klingons were an oddity in the timeline.
I completely agree. They don't even act like traditional klingons.
Ok. Now that I've officially been through the series (so far) a couple times, I lesson my disbelief of them as klingons. I can now see them as such if the empire is in shambles compared to what we know of them as during the golden. With that said. I still find it hard to believe that in just 100-150ish years they are able to transform thier whole breeding population into "normal" looking klingons. At this point, having grown on to the series, I'm just number this is a thing that I'm hung up on. I wish they didn't even have this as some easter egg series long transformation.
I have an other theory. What if discovery never existed.
This is a really solid theory! I really like it, it's more solid than any theory I ever made that's for sure haha! Great work man!
Thanks! Appreciate it.
@@StarTrekTheory no problem dude, your welcome!
In the FASA Star Trek stuff from the 80's, the TOS Klingons were explained as being Klingons that were genetically engineered. The ridged Klingons were the Imperial race, the TOS Klingons were the Human fusion, and there were even Romulan fusions. I really like this idea. The Klingons use the DNA of their enemies to better combat that enemy.
That would be cool to see Romulan-Klingons 😂. Although actually there was that one episode where Worf found the group of Klingons that got captured and their offspring were half Romulan. The idea that they use the DNA of their enemies to better understand them is fascinating.
The Final Reflection by John M Ford was a book that came out pre ST:TMP . It has this fusion as a backbone Klingons
@@bridgetboyle687 I recently found that book at a thrift store. It's an interesting read.
Here's the thing with Discovery. The writers never watched a previous version of Trek. Not only that, they outright mocked the idea and decided they would go off in their own little creative world, therefore draining the timeline of believability, while at the same time Paramount still had a hate affair going with Trek and would not allow the use of traditional Trek costumes and common Trek props we're all used to. The whole Discovery timeline will someday be completely debunked and nullified as Seven of Nine wakes up from a nightmare and will have dreamed the entire series.
Hopefully.
I think they could have done well as their own thing. Not a star trek, just another sci fi show. Everything would be a lot easier if they just did that. But it's hard in a world of sequels and spinoffs and cinematic universes...
@@KellyClowers 💯💯💯💯
4:30 neanderthals are our cousins not ansestors
I thought exactly the same thing so your theory is really good, i thought if they explained it by saying they were genetically engineered and they are the ancestors of the ancient klingons with precursor dna as it can be passed on
The nice thing about it being a genetic experiment during that period is it would also allow Worf to come back in Picard with his original makeup (not Discovery makeup) since the Klingons would have reverted back to their old look by that time...
Kor was seen as the same character with different physical appearances in TOS & DS9. Designers on TOS/TMP have said that we should see TOS as having stage-play quality sets & props. New series look better as a result of modern budget & tech, not a change to canon. Enterprise messed all that up by trying to over-explain things - Discovery then lit it all on fire.
I hope this gets corrected in some way when Klingons inevitably appear on SNW. They seem to have a better vision than Discovery. I could see Klingons looking this way 1,000s of years ago, or perhaps a remnant sub-group of primitive Klingons. But not in the TOS era. I want to see some gold shirts and Cossack boots again!
It does thankfully. They’re only slightly different looking. The SNW ones are definitely Klingon, not the orcs they had in STD. It’s a far better show
They always reminded me of a different species of Klingon, like how Neanderthals and Denisovans are different species of human.
Great video! This actually filled a lot of continuity gaps for me. I do have 1 theory to add for the TOS Klingons. What if, during this time, the Klingons were so secretive and xenophobic that they chose to use the augment Klingons as the "face" of the Empire to throw off other species to cover their embarrassment (which would be akin to a sin)? Because of how many drastic they've changed, and "damaged" themselves they smoke screen it with the augments, hiding their shame, but also giving an arrogant snub to outsiders. We've seen other species hiding behind masks and "filters", maybe this was their version. Or I could be completely wrong. Lol
To quote David St.Hubbins (This is Spinal Tap) "I think you're rationalising this whole thing like it's something they did on purpose. I think we're stuck with a very stupid and dismal-looking Klingons" :-) :-) :-) kudos for the effort though
A couple major issues i'm noticing 1. it was a single colony that was effected not the entire empire 2. into darkness is the kelvin timeline NOT the main timeline 3. Dax's comrades all canonically had Cranial Restoration . . .
Just a different ethnicity for me. That was my head canon for the smooth foreheaded ones when I was a kid.
How about STD isn’t canon? This trek wasn’t made by Gene Roddenberry or Rick Berman.
TNG and DS9 were good despite Berman, not because of him 🤣
agree on DISCO not being canon though. Other people can consider it canon if they want, but to me it is not.
You only focusing on looks. The problem with STD is more then just the changes to the Klingon's looks. They changed the culture too. For example, The soul is only thing that matter to the Klingons. After death the body is nothing but husk and unimportant. In STD, the Klingons were collect bodies after the battle. Why just not preform a Death Howl and move on? What changed? Then there was how L'Rell became Chancellor. Using a terrorist threat to gain power. No Klingon warrior would accept such an act of dishonor. Did she not fear that using such dishonorable ways would keep her out of Sto-Vo-Kor?
Lower Decks had tng klingons!
This really makes the entirety of Star Trek look like it was planned out from the beginning (like the MCU)
Even though we all know it wasn't. Rodenberry even said he didn't have the money to make Klingons look different in TOS and we should just imagine they did, then next generation added that scene with Warf talking about it being a big thing.
It could also be that some TOS era klingons chose to keep the human look because it was valuable to the Empire for infiltrating the Federation. Or it could be that the genetic tinkering required needed a certain genetic profile that not all klingons possessed, or that it was unaffordable for all klingons.
You hit the nail when you said the makeup team went overboard. Then, someone decided to retcon the look, after the backlash. 100 years for such drastic appearance changes, is much too short of time. That’s only three generation, four tops. I barely look different than my great grandma, let alone the -massive- changes in appearance suggested by Discovery. Everything about this series so far, is about being bigger, more, louder, stronger, and so in, than any Trek prior. It’s monotonous.
Thank you for this. I was immediately like wtf when starting discovery just now. This video came up and made me feel much better :)
i think you may have just redeemed discovery for me and i may start watching it again, i could only stand about 2 episodes of it cause of how the klingons looked
You need to go back and give season 1 another watch. The Klingons have a lot of depth in Discovery. Culturally, the discovery Klingons are much better. The main reason everybody loves the TnG Klingons and are so nostalgic about them is because of Worf.
Love the theory. I hope they do something similar, it would certainly smooth over ruffled feathers in the community
Agree! It would certainly give repeat viewings of Discovery a completely different perspective if so...
Please don't say "feathers." Alex Cuntsman will read it and think feathers are a great idea lol.
Works for me!
Thank you. Very helpful. I hate disco and JJ Klingons. This helps a little to remove the distaste they impart to my sensibilities.
I like it! i think simply waving away such a massive change in look as merely a different production teams 'interpretation' of Klingon's simply isn't good enough, this needs a canon explanation and yours is the best I've heard! Although, I'm not sure I can see a cult of Voq followers wanting to look more human, but I could see large infiltrator groups using the augment virus to temporarily appear human, but without Voq's extreme internal surgery - that's more or less exactly what happens with Arne Darvin in 'The trouble with Tribbles'! Also, perhaps everyone onboard Klingon ships which operate in or near Federation space get augmented to be potential infiltrators, that would explain why the TOS crew only ever see human style Klingons! ...okay, I may be too close to the Terminator franchise here! :-)
Cheers dr-nerd! I know what you mean about Voq, that’s probably the most speculative part. Imo L’Rell used the augment virus on him to get half way there, then changed his internals to be fully human so that was an extreme version of it. But just using the augment virus on klingons could get them to look human like (without ridges) but still be klingons internally. It could be that Darvin was another Ash Tyler, fully changed? But the tribbles could see/smell through his disguise even with internals now appearing human. Your idea about Klingons on the border becoming human like could work too, although I bet VOQ would be involved somehow in that still (I.e. he proved being a human looking Klingon gets humans to work with you 😂).
No matter how much people try the simple fact is that std/jjverse exists outside of the already established 50 years of trek canon, this also applies to the upcoming Pike series. The creators of this bizarro world simply are ignoring what Star Trek is in favor of doing this trash.
klingons have always changed wildly in appearance, the only "divisive" thing about Discovery is agreeing how bad it is..the mental gymnastics you are going through while avoiding the fact make up budget and technique has changed since the 60s
I really like this video.
I struggled with STD (gave up in season 2) the show just seemed like a series of random things happening. But a freind recomended s3. Videos like this help because, the more coherent the show is the more I want to watch it!
Thx! I’ve been piecing it together for myself also 😂. Recently I’ve been rewatching S1 and S2 and I noticed there’s far more consistency than first realized. It’s a much more kinetic show than old Trek... the trick is to watch with subtitles 😉
A lot of work went into this, and it makes impeccable sense… subscribed!
It's easy to look at fictional groups as monolith, but we have to also consider things like faction dynamics, which is a really good point in this theory.
If I'm remembering the series correctly, I would also suggest T'kuvma's group as being a cult that wanted the extremes of reverting to become true Klingons, whereas the majority of society probably wouldn't have gone that far.
Well done and balanced. wa’ qangtlhIn wIpab, tlhIngan maH taHjaj Together, under one creed… remain Klingon! 🤘🐺🤘
Haha thanks 😂 and Qapla’ 🖖
Remember - TOS is now an alternate timeline. Modern Trek is Kelvin, which could also explain differences in when various Klingon changes take place.
That's lovely except officially stated many times it's not the case. Also Kelvin timeline wouldn't explain how another species/empire is completely completely different.
Klingons? Nope! GWAR bandmembers? Yes!
This is a great way to explain it. However, there ain't no way the writers and producers of ST:D ever once thought about it.
They don’t look like regular Klingons and the Klingons around the time of the original series should actually look human. Which would be pretty easy for makeup artists.
i found it really hard to get on board with the new series because of the klingons. for me they were such an iconic part of my childhood star trek viewing . it would be interesting if this proves to the reason behind it all.
Thank you for fixing the Klingons for me
If the Klingons reverted to a Neanderthal state, maybe their language did too?
But discovery season 2 takes place before kirk was captain
I always assumed they didn't want any link to the past Star Trek series. Having Klingons look the same should remind everyone of the Next Generation and we can't have that.
This has been my headcanon since the look started to evolve in S2.
Klingons are embarrassed about the Discovery Orcs. Just like the rest of us! 🤪
10:22 Voq wasn't just made to look human, but to look like the real Ash Tyler. An actual Starfleet officer who was captured and eventually killed by the Klingons and whose memories and personality were implanted in Voq, until of course, Voq's original personality was completely "erased". Also, the Klingon Augment Virus wasn't involved as they even explain his change in appearance as being due to really advanced surgery (they drop terms like "scar tissue" and we also see them perform gruesome surgery on hin in the very flashbacks you show here). Other than that though, I like this theory, and part of me hopes they address this in SNW, but I don't think it's likely and prefer them to pretty much ignore "Affliction" and "Divergence" or make something really cool, like the "underclass" of Human looking Klingons do a coup and subjugate the "normal" Klingons for a decade or so. This could also account for them being a wee bit chummy with the Klingons at the end of Discovery Season 2 and by the time of TOS in a bitter state of Cold War.
They should have put this into a storyline to make it make sense! Much better!
An excellent job tying it all together. Thanks!
The explanation is simple, it's Kurtzman pissing on everything and then proclaim that's, "This is MINE, all MINE!"
You made a good theory that fits.
Discovery would have worked a lot better as a sequel series set in the 25th or 26th century.
Good Point!
I've thought this so many times. Set it in the 26th century, make the exterior of the ship sleeker and almost all issues with the series melt away. So silly they didn't. So easy to do so.
ST Enterprise explained the difference between the TOS and TNG Klingon look. We then saw different Klingons in the Kelvin timeline that weren’t explained. Then we saw more different Klingons in Discovery. Now SNW shows us Klingons that are similar to the TNG Klingons. Following the ST Enterprise timeline, the Discovery and SNW Klingons should have looked like the TOS Klingons, who apparently reverted to the TNG Klingons by the time of the TOS theatrical movies 🤔
I enjoyed the new look, they looked more alien. Great theory, makes since. One issue Chris Pine Star Trek takes place in the Kelvin timeline not prime. My theory was, different subspecies of Klingon. You got me beat. ;)
Probably tried another race dna instead of human augments
While in the past showrunners might have wanted to address such inconsistencies. The showrunners for Discovery are just trying to tear Star Trek apart and remake it. So I seriously doubt there will be any attempt to address this going forward.
This is great. If they made this canonical it would improve Discovery 1000%.
The only problem with your theory is that Discovery & Picard are not in the TOS universe no matter what the producers tell us. It`s got to be an alternate timeline.
Haha that was going to be one of my future theory videos actually... it's true, the two timelines feel very different
@Mina Minamizaki The Technology & ship design is so different and the Klingons seem like a totally different species from the Abrams -verse . That`s My reasoning . If you can explain that I`ll get on board with you but in the meantime, yeah I`m suffering with you.
@Mina Minamizaki Please do so. I`d like to hear your theory. Not challenging you . Really interested.
@Mina Minamizaki Yes, but I think the design choices are what make it seem like another universe. Way too advanced even for TNG. I was trying to give this a chance as far as the Klingons go with their redesign. I was hoping that they would say that these were the original Klingons & the ones we`re familiar with were their hybrid off-spring from interbreeding. That the hybrids somehow overthrew & exterminated the originals. A Klingon Civil War would have been a great story-line & a way to explain the obvious differences.
Each Picard season HAD to have taken place in a different timeline or universe to make literally any sense to the other.
Very well thought out.
Thanks!
There's an episode in TOS where a facsimile of Kahless appears and looks like the human-like Klingons sooo...
I think they were pulled from Kirk's and the others minds and they only knew what Klingons with the human augment DNA looked like but knew some klingon history.
I just got the impression that the ones designing the klingons had never watched TOS startrek and startrek enterprise. They had no idea what they were doing.
For the record Neanderthals evolved along side humans. They aren't an earlier form of human, but a parallel hominid species of the genus Homo. A more accurate example would be Homo Erectus or even Australopithecus.
I don't know if the shows need to go into this much detail to explain it, but I agree that some character should at least note that the Klingons had been experimenting with genetics over the last century to reverse the effects of the Augment virus, with mixed results. A ten-second remark would be sufficient on screen, and the tie-in novels could fuss over the details.
Wouldn't explain the vast difference in size and shape of the vessels and customs/culture but I suppose it wouldn't have been nice they tried a little.
I watched 2 episodes of Discovery and I just couldn't stand the change in cosmetics cgi and lore
I was given to understand that the hair explanation in Discovery was that Klingons shave their heads in wartime. That doesn't really line up with what we see in other shows, but I distinctly recall that being the explanation they gave for bald Klingons.
When you realise that 1 of the Klingons in Discovery-era is based on the Nak'hul look since ENT : Voq!
That's a cool theory!
My theory on this is they were messing with the genetics to recover the ridges and succeeded after a couple failed attempts which lead them to look like orcs. The final antidote will slowly bring the human and the orc back to their original looks but Kor and Klang were both in space on a patrol where they were unable to get the antidote during the Trouble with Tribbles episode.
I like your theory, but you can’t count the 2009 Star Trek movies (into Darkness) because that is set in an alternate timeline and we can’t account for those Klingons and their actions. IF Discovery is set in the Original series timeline, you can’t account for anything done in the Abram’s movies. I like everything else you theorize but I just can’t get on board with anything from the Abram’s movies.
agreed 1000000%
Except that alternate timeline only diverged 20 years earlier than this prime timeline. There isn’t enough time to explain the changes.
Excellent explanation of the Discovery Klingons. I had never though of it this way and it makes a lot of sense.
This is a great theory. I guess we’ll know more when new Trek shows Klingons again, either in Picard S3 or Discovery in the 32nd century.
You always piece these theories together in a meaningful way. Personally I accept the Discovery Klingon redesign independently and enjoy the contrast. Think the design change was part of the Paramount vs. CBS design properties that arouse. We've seen redesigned Federation uniforms and the Enterprise do to those copyrights. That said I do think your theory works so well, all I can say it's great to always see things evolve.
Thanks, really appreciate it! I think you’re probably right, it was just done as a visual reboot originally... although maybe there’s still wriggle room in there for the writers to tie things together eventually? I have to say I’m starting to think of Discovery as being in an alternate timeline now, especially with all the S3 future stuff, but it’s definately fun to theorize about it all 😂. Thx again for the great comment!
It’s great they took Discovery into the future, it opens up room for a distinct new identity. Moving forward with Strange New Worlds is the best thing for that classic timeline. Being a Trekkie since childhood in the early 70’s what I can say is it’s always great to get more Star Trek.
Dam i love this Theory !!! I would love this to be mentioned in the Series to make it Canon.
As someone who shaves his head I would pay good money to see a Klingon attempt to shave a head with that my bumps it would be a blood bath😂😂😂
Great theory!
This makes so much more sense than the explanation given by the producers of the show "We wanted to change their looks and make them look more sexy and alien"! There's still a few loose ends where the timelines are concerned since the producers and director have stated that these Klingons have no direct link to the Kelvin Timeline Klingons in "Into Darkness". But still, I like the fact that you've added in that movie reference (even though it was produced by Jar Jar Abrahams, yes I'm bias). What makes even more sense is the fact that since it's stated in your video that one of the Houses have the original Augment Virus, it would make sense that these "zealot-type", radical Klingons (and this would be another theory), seeing that they were a doomed House, could have enacted a Maquis-esk tactic (DS9), launching torpedo warhead strikes on the Klingon-controlled worlds with the augment virus (An "If we cannot control the Empire, then you will all suffer as we have" ideology). Upper-atmosphere detonation would then spread the virus and infect a majority of the population, and we've seen just how effective and quick the virus infects and spreads. That would explain for the relatively short timeframe between Enterprise to Discovery, then to TOS.
oooh I like the idea of the augment Klingon house attacking others using the virus... it could transform any remaining klingons, maybe during some kind of civil war, to their augment look... great idea!
@@StarTrekTheory Knowing some of Klingon politics, it would make sense that there'd be a civil war once a group tried to come to power without the support of the Council (House Duras hammered those nails in their coffin quite often throughout the series)
I always reckoned the physical differences were because the KE was a polyglot, multi-species empire just like the UFP.
It’s too bad they don’t look the way they should because it would be cool if we saw many Klingons with the human look and maybe have a few with small ridges growing back on their foreheads.
If they had features like that no Klingons would ever accept them the Klingons are a very proud species and don’t take kindly to outcasts they only respect pure bloods unless you have a blood oath or something like that I forgot what it was really called but they probably would accept them if they were born on they’re world or were a great warrior lol
though giving them hair helped the look of klingons in DISCO a fair bit they still look way different from literally every other trek klingons, before and after (klingons appear as their TNG-ENT style both in Lower Decks and Prodigy, no news for Picard or SNW yet on how they'll be represented).
Moreso as we should be in the era of TOS era kligons, where many of them look mostly human which Enterprise found a good way to make work without just handwaving it as "we had an actual makeup budget in the 80's/90's
But one thing that gives me hope, it was a blink and you'll miss it type background character, on the queen's ship at the end of Discovery's second season there's a guy who gets a couple shots who looks like a TNG-era klingon with DISCO era makeup. Like a perfect mix, what we all would have wanted. S2-E14: Such Sweet Sorrow part 2, at about 26:45 for a good look.
Honestly if they just mix in TNG, TOS, and DISCO era klingons together for Strange New Worlds I think I could learn to just deal with them, put some DISCO klingons in with TNG ones if they pop up in Picard, Prodigy, or Lower Decks, just make them a subset of the larger race. But just saying "this is them now, deal with it" was really something that hurt DISCO in the beginning.
But this theory is very concise, I like it a lot!
Also, for any tabletop fans, the Star Trek Adventures Klingon Corebook has a bit of neat lore on how TOS era klingons were treated by the empire.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who came to this theory. Excellent video.
I prefer the idea of a counter virus to adjust the cartilage that dreates ridges that went out of control. A revamped augment virus could have been the response, perhaps by L'rells' house, to counter the disunity that having seperate houses look like different species.
I know some people are gonna hate this, but i was thinking the Discovery Klingons are to TNG Klingons as Remans are to Romulans.
No hate necessary but that doesn't explain it at all, especially when they call themselves Klingons.
Out of universe, most of all that info was accidental, but I just love how all of this somehow makes so much sense.
This is a really good theory.
not gonna lie the klingons from star trek into darkness movie a few years ago was crazy insane, sick
You do realized Kelvin timeline is different universe from discovery right?
Great theory... so why are the Klingons orcs 10 years before tos, then they revert back to smooth tos era? Your theory would make more sense if they looked like this post tos pre tmp...
The virus didn’t spread throughout the empire. The vaccine that doctor phlox created removed the cranial ridges and they needed to spread the vaccine throughout the empire. What is also possible is that it only lasts several decades before the ridges come back because Kor, Khang and Koloth all have their cranial ridges in DS9.
You really put a lot of work explaining the meandering inconsistencies haha. But it’s still inconsistent, good work though
Maybe Klingons are like some animals we have tamed, if you let them back out to nature they start growing longer tusks or nails and become more agressive. As a specific warrior race it would be possible that their bodies also become more intimidating depending their state of conflict, the augment dna could even be responsible for that, or like you suggested, they messed with their own dna to become even more intimidating in battle and after the discovery conflict they stopped doing it and started reverting back to 'peacefull mode'.
Don’t forget in lower decks (which I think is later down the timeline) the Klingons in this show look like the Klingons we’re used to.
So I like this theory a lot but there one thing that I'm gonna make a comment about, it been said (in other media) that high council and other higher born families used anyway to get their ridges back so I can see the common Klingons not being able to afford or get access to these treatments