There’s another factor that doesn’t involve any other traffic on the road. As you’ve not seen anything on the road in a couple of hours of riding ( for example) then that also means that if you slide off on gravel, bang into a tree or whatever, then there’s absolutely no chance of help coming by to give you a hand, raise the emergency services. A minor spill could leave you trapped and you could die up there. So ride according to the conditions and leave a good margin for error so if you do lose control, the speed at which your travelling doesn’t take you beyond the point where you can regain control. Travelling solo is a mindset. You want to complete the journey so the “ enjoyment” has to be dialled down a bit, to ensure the main goal is achieved. Top marks for the video!
Thats a very important tip nearly had it happen to me going way to fast just got lucky and the bike saved itself somehow didn’t crash but I definitely just slow down now always tell someone were you plan to ride just in case.
True, I opted for the automatic emergency services on my bike two years ago. For cars it is mandatory and on central european roads, cell coverage is good enough that you have a chance your call gets through. definately 200 bucks that are worth spending if you have an accident in a remote area or at night, because no one will find you if you go off a dark road in a forest at night. but you are right, better to go slower and avoid the accident than relying on tech to save you.
So refreshing to see someone sharing their mistakes and reflections. We all make them, it’s part of being human. It’s the attitude of being honest and ensuring that not only you learn but provide the opportunity for others to learn from it that’s important.
I totally agree. It seems our society's value beeing right higher than understanding an learning. This is such a hard habit to get rid of as an adult. Parents should focus more on it beeing absolutely ok if there kids have done or thought something wrong and embrace the opportunity to learn something instead of picking on a fault
You are not like 99% of humans, you were literally able to stop your bike and analyze the situation, even trying to find them to apologize, then you researched your riding and made a mini 10 minute documentary to provide safety to others from your own mistakes. A true man. God Bless You Brotherr
Yeah, I also encountered a logging truck later on this same trip. I was on my side of the road going slowly (learned my lesson) and it still popped up out of nowhere. I was so surprised the bikers hadn't hear me coming, but I didn't hear the truck coming either. Sound doesn't like to travel around blind corners so it seems.😅
For me, our border patrol go around corners at break neck speed. They know there's dual sport and mountain bikers on the roads all the time, yet they still go 50mph around corners on the dirt roads.
@@FineLine-Media I notice when I ride for a long time, my ears start to get fatigued and I kind of tune out what's happening because all I was hearing was my bike and wind anyways. I don't think there's anything you could do to help yourself hear oncoming cyclists, maybe they need to start putting 50cc 2 strokes on every bike :p
@@xander4218 I don't ride off-road myself, but I'm always wearing earplugs when riding my motorbike. I've noticed that it makes me hear the important noises better instead of having them drown in the wind and engine noise. Also, it makes a huge difference in mitigating the general fatigue on a long ride, which is a huge plus to help me stay focused. I agree 100% with everything you said in this video, and it is also completely relevant for road riding! In a long trip where you barely cross path with anyone, overconfidence can be deadly. Thanks for sharing 😉👍
Thank you for owning your mistakes. The bicyclists were also making an error by taking up both sides of the road. But your video did the honorable thing and focus on your errors. It focused on what you could fix.
Exactly what I was thinking, including the kudo's for keeping focus on the personal learning points. Looking from the other end of the story. When i hear a car or motorbike across the other side of a blind corner, i would not keep at speed, while side-by-side with my riding buddy like this. Does not change anything here though, any less quick person on the other side in this case, could have easily gone wrong. Tx for the video 👌
Actually, the cyclist on the wrong side is what let him see them earlier. Had they both been on the 'right' side the situation at best would have been unchanged, at worst he'd have had less time to react and hit them. I think you should expect cyclists to be on both sides on trails.
@@PaulJakmaYes but also how the heck did they not hear him coming & drop into single file? I guess obviously not everyone can hear, but for me auditory awareness is definitely one of the things I most appreciate about riding a bicycle! All I can figure is that he was actually approaching much faster than this sports camera makes it look, & they simply didn't hear the exhaust until he was right on top of them. I have seen that happen a few times, _especially at corners_ that directed the sound away... Overall, just so many good examples of what to watch out for, in this video!
@@PaulJakmayes, as well as you should expect a full width car or truck or tractor with front cutting appliance to be taking the full road. Sure, they should stop, but you should be able to stop, too and not just run into them because that might kill you. And if they dont stop..well, i dont wanna die so i need to escape down the slope in case.
After 4 years of ADV/DS riding I had my first collision with a side-by-side. Very similar scenario. The more you get away with something - the more you believe you will continue to get away with it. You nailed the rationale we use to get into this situation.
The piece of advice I always bring with me is “what would happen if you met yourself coming the other way” - if I were to meet a biker like me also cutting the corner, we’d both just crash. You’re right at the point in your biking where you’re most dangerous to yourself and others - nothing too terrible has happened (this incident aside) and therefore almost all of your biking has been positive feedback loops. We’re bikers, everyone else is out to get us, let’s not also make it easy for them! Sounds like you’ve learned the lesson well tho, and thank you for sharing it in such detail. Hopefully someone will take the lesson you’re sharing without having to live the experience!! ❤
Good point about the positive feedback loop. That has made me feel overly confident on several occasions. I had some humbling experiences now though, like hugging that tree for instance.😉 Thanks for watching!🙏
The off-road community has grown so much I have close calls with side by sides quads and bigger vehicles so going fast can be scary in tight environments
Thanks for making this video. It is about finding the right frame of mind when riding, reflecting on your own performance and being honest with yourself. I reckon this makes you a safe rider. Well done mate.
It's really healthy to have these kind of honest retrospectives on dangerous situations you have on your motorcycle. I recently flew through a red light, only managing to stop half way into the intersection, cause I was just being irresponsible riding way too fast around a corner in the city. I could have written that off as "no harm, no foul". But in hindsight I feel so awful because a pedestrian could have been in the crosswalk when I went over the line. Having a really honest dialogue with myself about that event genuinely changed some of my riding habits, hopefully for the better.
Good Video, a reminder for all whom use the trail...., hiker, horseback, cyclist, overlander, and motorcyclist... shared trail, use Respect, watch your Speed, and consciencely keep re-assessing current conditions. I have been there too my friend, a very good reminder... thank you for making & sharing this video. Ride safe
Been riding off road for more than you can imagine. My dad taught me a very good rule that covers much of what happens off-road. “Never ride faster than you can see”. As a kid learning, as a young adult racing and ever since this rule has served me well. See, in this rule is not just about sight. It’s about seeing the situation for what it can become, because when it goes bad the first thing you say to yourself is always something like, “ I didn’t see that coming”. Things like conditions, possible traffic, your own skill, equipment, and speed come into play. Your example is one I got drilled into me when riding in Colorado at the age of 9 on a very similar road. Dad sent me ahead with a friend. Next thing I know he passes us both, locks up the bike and slide stops us both. He got off the bike and gave us a lecture the bears in the area will still remember. We had been taking insides like you did and as kids had not accounted for the possibility of traffic miles into the wilderness. Off-road riding also has a shit happens factor and it cannot be fully sanitized, it wouldn’t be any fun if it could be “safe”. Trust me, I have decades of examples. I even saw two guys in the open desert that did not know each other, that were both riding alone, come together on two tracks that merged at about a 5 degree angle. Neither on saw, heard or expected the otheer and literally side swiped each other.
Your dad had it half right, seeing is the first step, but the reaction also takes time, dodging or completely stopping depending on the situation/speed.
@@vashon100 I think you may have missed the point and not read my comment completely... "See, in this rule is not just about sight. It’s about seeing the situation for what it can become, because when it goes bad the first thing you say to yourself is always something like, “ I didn’t see that coming”. Things like conditions, possible traffic, your own skill, equipment, and speed come into play".
Hey man, sorry for the late reply! Appreciate you taking the time to comment and go into this much detail. I like the way your dad stopped you two, I can imagine that lesson stayed with you forever. I agree that sports like this can’t be fully sanitized and that we don’t want them to be either. The risk is part of the appeal. I come from downhill mountain biking and am no stranger to crashes and injuries, but getting hurt while attempting a new drop or jump is very different than a collision. I like my life and prefer not to get hurt at all but my main concern with this incident was that I could have hurt someone else at the expense of my thrills. That just didn’t feel right. ‘Never ride faster than you can see’ is excellent advise and will keep that in kind for all future rides. Thanks! To you and your dad😉
@@FineLine-Media I appreciate the reply. My dad had a great impact on me and it's nice to hear that he continues helping others. Your concern about others is healthy and will serve you well. Just remember in this off-road community most seem to share that perspective and responsibility, and when shit happens we all know the difference between disregard for others and when it's just a riding incident.
I really appreciate that you put this video out. I've been riding since the early 90s and am still learning. My thought was to not be too hard on yourself for this one. I you had been on the right, the outcome for one or both of you on that side could have been much worse. For safeties' sake, I do agree with you on not cutting those blind corners. Keep the rubber side down and all those other cliches!
I only read a few of the comments but the ones I've read say exactly how I feel about this. Good on you for sharing your mistake and trying to others to learn from it. Thank you.
Thank you for taking the time to post this video. I am an experienced motorcycle rider with over 50 years of riding and racing. I recently started dual-sport/adventure riding offroad. I completely understand the thrill you were experiencing while thinking of the Dakar racers. Sometimes I pretend as though I'm in the Baja 1000 on a stretch of hilly, gnarly, sandy road where I live. But I will try harder to keep in mind your incident and the 4 points while riding on public roads and trails. Your video is of great value.
Thanks for your comment! The Baja 1000 is a bucket list goal. Not sure if I’ll ever get there but it sure is fun to dream about it. “Imagination will take you everywhere” - Einstein.
Thanks for sharing. It's always helpful not only to discuss the things that could have been done better, but also to see how you tried to catch them so you could explain yourself.
Thanks so much for posting this video and reinforcing such an important message! It’s critical that we ride within our limits and always be aware of blind corners and preparing for them re slowing down and give yourself an escape route if at all possible. Thank you again!
Hi Toby and thanks for sharing your story. Yes, you got lucky. And so have I many times. No judgement! It’s a good video to show that even well intended, mostly well abiding citizens still can mess up things. Glad you had the courage to share this video. Ride safe
Been riding for decades, and your self reflection and self imposed rules are great to see (and video is appreciated). Know that even seasoned riders can slip into this type of thing easily. It requires constant vigilance. That said, your blind corner rule is only half right. The rule you should strive for is that your stopping distance should never exceed your visible through line. Being on the inside was much less a problem than the speed in relation to visibility on inside. Being on the outside gives a much further visibility, and that's the main reason to take that line. Rubber side down, brother!
Spot on! Appreciate sharing that experience with us and I must admit, conditioning is something that affects my riding style quite a lot. The traffic was almost inexistent on the ACT Greece and you will easily fall under the “king of the road” syndrome
Your attitude immediately after the near-collision, your reflection in the time that followed, your attempt to find them, and ultimately making a video to help others is unfortunately a rare mindset, especially here in the US. Thank you! Driving, not riding example, but: I try to always introspect/reflect to improve the safety and efficiency of my driving. I had a non-ideal moment a few days ago that had many similar aspects to your video. I was making an unprotected left turn at the intersection of a large neighborhood road and a divided highway, turning onto the highway. My primary focus was on assessing if there was oncoming traffic that would be proceeding straight, and the timing worked out that I was able to make the left without needing to come to a stop. As a turned in and looked ahead to the highway, I noticed a pedestrian crossing directly in my path. Thankfully I had plenty of room to come to a complete stop without getting anywhere near the pedestrian, but there is maybe one instance per year where something on the road (ahead of, next to, or behind me) takes me by surprise - I put a huge effort into trying to have a virtual "birds eye view" of my surroundings while I drive, so this was a big wakeup call. There were a few factors at play here that led to my negligence. First, the divided highway I was turning onto is slightly elevated from the neighborhood road, which led to my van's a-pillar obstructing my view of the crosswalk more than usual. Secondly, my attention was primarily focused on oncoming traffic, not on the crosswalk, so combined with the partial obstruction of my peripheral vision, a situation where I would normally have noticed the pedestrian became one where I didn't notice them at all (before I initiated the turn, they were at about 30-45deg left of straight ahead, easily within my peripheral vision). Lastly, and most importantly, I have been conditioned to not expect a pedestrian in that spot. I navigate that intersection at least twice every day, and I see a pedestrian there maybe once every month or so (compared to a couple dozen cars every time I drive through). So, it simply didn't occur to me in the moment that in addition to looking ahead, I should also be keeping an eye out for someone on foot. Lesson learned, and thankfully learned with zero consequences, and I will absolutely be more vigilant no matter where I am driving. One last note, that in no way excuses my own lack of attention, the road design in my area is often outright malicious to anyone not in a car (and often to cars, too). The length of that crosswalk is 35m, even at a brisk pace it would take at least 20 seconds to cross it. The sightlines from vehicles to the crosswalk are terrible due to landscape and volume of vehicles present, and the geometry of the lanes is awful - often people drive straight through left-turn-only lanes because they line up perfectly with the road straight ahead. Also, The divided highway southbound sees a speed limit increase from 50mph to 55mph at that intersection, but as you proceed towards the intersection and the faster speed limit, there is a 1km downhill section all the way into the intersection at something like 6-7% gradient. The average southbound traffic speed through there is usually 60-65mph, and coming from the other direction vehicles are usually doing 70mph+. Every few months there are major car-to-car accidents there.
This is really refreshing. Every road (or off road) user should have this mindset. People make mistakes. I mean you kind if got off lucky it could have gone way worse. But as others have said, your owning your inexperience and mistakes and I'm certain you will learn from this and hopefully not repeat it. I would be the person on the cycle and some remote places where I live are plagued with pit bikes who think those trails belong to them and consider no one else in their endeavours.
❤ this came into my feed just after responding to a comment from a guy who broke his knee. He didn’t say exactly how, but I asked him about it and how it was healing, and he said that a year and a half later he’s having a problem walking and may have to get a knee replacement. I’m just gearing up for a trip across the West Coast of the US, some back roads, on a bigger bike than I’ve ever owned, after a couple decades away from riding. This video, your video, should get a lot more views. It’s really well-made, and hits hard.
Thank you so much!❤ Unfortunately a friend of mine who I was supposed to go on a trip with this summer is also having a hard time recovering from a knee injury, tearing his ligaments in a very dull motorcycle accident. Apparently it doesn't take that much. Many of my friends have bought knee braces since hearing his story. They're expensive but they seem to offer quite a bit of protection. I have the Leatt X Hybrid Pro and really like them. They are more affordable and a bit sleeker than the Mobius and Leatt Z knee braces my friends have, I'm not sure which one is better though. I do think it's a smart investment. Enjoy your trip and thanks for your post!
Good video. I had a friend almost loose his life on a back road like this getting hit head on by a drunk driver. He did loose total use of his left arm permanently. Despite the errors I almost feel that this worked out about as good as it could have considering they were also not riding on their side of the road. Had you been on the outside of the corner like you should have one or both of you could have collided and gone off the edge or just gone off the edge trying to miss one another. Seems like everyone got pretty lucky here. I'll admit that on these long rides in the middle of nowhere with little to no other traffic it's really easy to get complacent. I admire your willingness to post the video. Everything seems to have been properly handled. Props to you for trying to do the right thing.
Sorry to hear about your friend, that's a nightmare scenario. I hope he's still enjoying life. We definitely all got lucky that day. I find it difficult to say if it would have been worse if I was on the outside. We would have seen each other a bit sooner giving us more time to react, but like you say, we'd also be closer to the edge leaving less room for evasive manoeuvres. Nobody got hurt and that is the best outcome, so I'm inclined to agree with you. Thanks for your comment, I appreciate the support.
This was a really thoughtful and helpful and also important video, thankyou for sharing! Honest assessment of our own mistakes is so valuable isn’t it, and important in avoiding repeats. I just had a head on crash with my best mate on our dirtbikes on the weekend, and we did a bit of a debrief assessment as well, and worked out some good plans for avoiding that again (fortunately no major injuries), but the assessment of mental state as well in this is something very helpful to add to it. Thankyou!
Oof, glad you guys are okay! Yeah, a bit of self reflection goes a long way. In all honesty, it’s not something I do regularly but taking the time to think about this incident gave me some insights I otherwise wouldn’t have. And better yet, by sharing it I’ve gained even more. It’s been cool to get so many constructive reactions, lots of experience and wisdom in the comments. Thanks for the kind words, really nice to hear it’s been helpful. Happy riding and stay safe!🙏
In the U.S.A., we live by the "ride right" slogan.. so even on a one lane road like this, we try to always stay to the right side of the road. Mostly because we drive on the right side of the road. I'm assuming that you normally drive on the left side of the road when on the streets, so I would think people in Europe would default to staying on the left side of the trail. Please correct me if I am wrong. Looking at your incident, you would have had a problem despite your lane position. The mountain bikes were taking up both lanes. Even if you had been on the other side of the road, you would have just had to dodge the other bike. They should have at least heard your motor as you were approaching them. I wouldn't beat myself up about it too hard. This looks like a hard situation to figure out who was in the right, but no one was hurt. How fast you're riding should be dictated by how far ahead you can see.. if you can't see far, then slow it down.. if you have a good line of vision then hammer down.
I think most people in Europe know the "ride right" principle. I did anyway, although I've never heard it mentioned like that. It does make it simple to remind yourself.🙂
I agree he is not entirely in the wrong. On a narrow trail like that the other bikers shouldn’t have been taking up both sides of the road. They didn’t account for anyone else on the trail either, but instead of only taking up half the road they took up the whole thing. This incident would have played out with a lot less drama had they been ridding in single file.
Hi, big respect for your inward reflection and self analysis. Something I work on now is “If you can’t see where you’re going to be in 5 seconds you’re going too fast” this gives you and things coming towards you time to asses and react and stop if necessary, so yeah, you can go on the inside of blind corners but reduce your speed to how far (in time) you can see. Obviously this won’t help you win races, but it’s a great rule for road and trail riding. I say this from 45 years road riding, 40years trail riding, 25 years competing in enduro and rallies and 15 years teaching road riding, and I’m still listening to and learning from other’s experiences, we’ve all got something to share.
Good video; I find myself cutting corners as well off road and I’ve had several close encounters. One recommendnation here is also to practice swerving; you didn’t swerve when your buddy stopped unexpectedly. Best wishes good video
Earned the sub for publishing on a difficult subject. I'm a rider of 40 years, and had my fair share of stupid mistakes. It conditions you. I'd probably not be going as fast as that off road, due to a matter of personal responsibility. I think the trend for people carrying SOS beacons expecting someone else to save them pushes caution to the wind and raises expectations in others. I've not seen a SOS recovery situation that wasn't totally avoidable. Looking forward to having a look through your channel
Thanks, I appreciate it! To be honest, I wasn't carrying a SOS beacon either, I went full stupidity.😉 I've become a lot more cautious since this incident though and will probably get one of those beacons just in case. But even if I do, I'll try to keep out of situations where I need to use it. I've received a lot of great advice (see comments), with ride right, slow down and the SEE approach being just a few of 'em. It's been really cool to get so many constructive reactions. Thanks for watching!🙏
Nothing more to say that hasn’t already been said thank you for sharing a top vid and hopefully making others aware of how easy this can happen, ride safe and have great adventures 🤘🏼
People never talk about this enough. Accidents happen especially on a motorcycle, know how to react and prevent an accident is incredibly important and needs to be talked about more.
Well done for posting this. I really liked your self-analysis and your 3 reasons - (hype, conditioning, fear). Another reason I've observed is fatigue. Towards the end of the day when you get tired, you can get a bit lazy and unfocused, then start "cutting corners" or "following too close" or "taking poor line choices" without realizing it. Cheers
Yes, that's a big one actually and should have been included. This also happened quite late in the day, probably around 16:00 or something, and I think this played a big roll in me not steering back to my own side of the road. Tired, not focused, couldn't be bothered. A lack of variation in the trail also didn't help. The TET Sovenia is really nice, but some of those gravel sections are pretty long. Thanks for watching!🙏
Hey man, everything was said already about the content (I’ll save you my opinion on bicycle riders, we suffer them a lot here in Switzerland), but I have to say that I really think that you have a nice frame for your video, nice colors and good sound. It’s not often that you see that small of a channel with that high quality of footage. Love it.
Great video. I wasn't really going too fast or cutting a blind corner, but I was in a very remote part of Idaho(USA) and I was going around a blind right turn, I was fairly tight on the wall and it saved me, I ended up dodging a forest service truck by a few inches. Very scary. Like you said, never cut blind corners and only ride as fast as you can see. This is especially important in the US where we have a lot of SxS's, which are extremely easy to operate and extremely capable offroad. Which leads to inexperienced drivers. I also often see them with a beer in their hand(while driving), it's pretty scary. I ride solo like 90% of the time, and the biggest safety tool you have as a solo rider is your mindset. Always have a gps tracker of course, but that's something you never want to use. What really saves you is your mindset and self control. When I'm solo, in remote places especially, I try to never exceed 70% of my riding ability. I also strictly follow my gut, if I see something and I have a lot of hesitation and am unsure if I can do it, I'll just turn around. It's not worth ruining a multi day trip for the sake of a single obstacle. If I want to improve my ability on harder obstacles but I don't have anyone to go with, I make sure people know where I am, and I try to make as much of a controlled situation as possible by getting off the bike and walking my lines. If I can, I try to practice in places that I know have cell service too.
Great comment! I like to walk my lines too, it's a habit I developed in mountain biking. Ironically, by walking my lines I also tend to ride more stuff that's outside my comfort zone/skill level because when you walk the lines enough times, one is bound to start looking doable. Seriously though, great tips. I'm going to copy this approach.
Being a beginner rider is hard, i started on a 60cc, and after a year, I went all in onto a 450cc dirtbike. I loved the speed, but sometimes i crashed, broke the bike and got hurt or burned. The best thing i learned is to ride in the middle of the path. Sometimes, it is okay to take risks, but most times u have to think that behind that corner there is danger. At any time you can come to a sudden turn. U never know. Happy riding and stay safe❤
Great that you made this and that you are so honest about the psyche behind this kind of incident.❤ I do a lot of outdoor risky things as well and always ask myself "how do I make this safe enough?" That way, I usually spot quite a few risks/influences upfront and decide what I'm actually doing about them. It's new, I'm stoked, there is a lot of objective danger, I haven't done this before, I'm on my own, I'm tired from yesterday, I'm riding great, I've eaten well, setup feels great, I know the route and where the difficulties are, I've got plenty of time. Based on this I'd probably concentrate on flow and technique rather than speed. If I went through a harder section I enjoy, I go back and push through it with more speed. Trouble is I actually now f# all about off road riding, but it's interesting that the thinking seems to cross over to many things.😂 PS I also think having a camera running, doing voice over and thinking about filming can have an (often negative) influence on behaviour
That’s great advice. I do try to ground myself more nowadays and focusing on flow instead speed will add to that nicely. Cameras definitely negatively influence your behavior. It’s for that exact reason, that you’re not allowed an action camera in skydiving until you’ve got like an x amount of jumps. Thanks for watching!🙏
Great video and analysis. Where I ride, I can't think of a single occasion where I saw someone _not_ cutting blind corners. It's pretty much 100% the way people do it - cut the corner and rely on your reactions. Freaks me out. So when my lane is on the inside of the curve, I slow right down and really hug the inside, even if it's littered with rocks. Many times I've had a vehicle come past going the other way where they are in my lane, and I'm on the edge of the road in the gutter and rubble.
Great video. Refreshing to see someone analysing a situation rather than blaming everything apart for themselves and making excuses. The wider point about positioning is you would have had the same problem if you had been riding on the right as a cyclist still would have been in your path.....but with positioning on the outside of the bend you would both have seen each other sooner ......
Thanks man, appreciate it!🙏 In addition to seeing each other sooner, another benefit of being on the outside would have been that it's a pretty safe and logical manoeuvre for the yellow cyclist to just steer back to his lane. Now we're all thinking: what the heck?!
I live on a section of the UK tet (tight forest trails and rivers) and rule number one (on mtb or enduro/trail bike) I learned quickly - only ride as fast as you can stop. If you can’t see around a corner then you’re unlikely to stop if your speeding and there’s a 4x4 parked in the blind part of the corner.
Good video, i feel like i‘m also sometimes guilty of the downplaying part while riding my Mountainbike. That‘s a strong reminder to not rail blind corners
Really cool of you to post something as sensitive as this. We could all benefit from a bit of introspection and really putting ourselves under the lens like this. Also, where can I watch the Slovenia Trans Euro motovlog? Cheers.
Thanks man, appreciate it!🙏 The Slovenia vlog will come out soon, I paused the editing to makes this video first. I’ll try to finish it in the next 2 weeks.
Good analysis and I admire your humility in admitting your mistakes. I'm surprised those guys never heard the bike coming though and switched into single file for their own safety. I hope they see the video
I had an exact same incident on the NMBDR. Totally my fault. I came within paint scratching distance from a head-on with a full size truck. I would probably have been killed. I went through the same mental exercises that you did. We need to be thinking safety every second. The bad thing in your case was that the other bicycle rider was incorrectly riding on his wrong side. If you had been where you should have been, you might have hit him. Hopefully, you both learned a lesson the hard way.
It's nice to see you taking responsibility. Whenever we blame others, we give up control and make our fate dependent on others (and thus only on luck, actually). Only when we take responsibility and blame ourselves can we improve what can be improved and thus (re)gain control and growth. Great analysis! Makes you think and reminded me of my own close calls. 😬 In group rides there can be even another component of "ego" that leads to increased risks. Also very honorable that you tried to find the guys to say sorry. Save riding! ❤
Thanks man, appreciate your comment!🙏 Yeah, group dynamics can really amplify that hyped feeling. We have a group of friends with someone who organises cross events on mx tracks for adventure and dual sport bikes, that's a pretty good outlet for that energy, because I'm definitely not opposed to it. It's fun to get rowdy with the boys. Just good to be mindful about it too.
I’m a cyclist and you know that on two track, when you hear an ATV you don’t hog the trail. You get ready to make way and you single file. Horses are the worst because they’re silent.
Thank you for sharing your experience. As an avid mtb'er that hits FSRs regularly I still believe the cyclists were in a bad position, and also, weren't listening. They should've heard you coming plain and simple. Again, I appreciate your humbleness, and glad everyone came away unscathed. I wish you all the best on your future adventures.
The more I’ve spoken about it with viewers, the more I realize the cyclists dropped the ball too. I still made some serious mistakes myself, but it’s been nice getting back-up from so many of you so, thanks! All the best to you too🙏
I'm impressed to find this kind of attitude from motorbike rider...so humble and so committed to admit it was your mistake...usually motorists(especially car drivers) tend to be arrogant, and they don't respect the other road users...if they make a mistake that could potentially kill you they don't even apologize
Thanks man, appreciate the kind words! It was actually quite a fun exercise to analyze why I messed up and the amount of constructive comments have really been the cherry on top.
But the cyclists were on both left and right side of the way. You pass them in between. What could possibly happened if you were riding on the right side ? Did you think about that?
I too initially thought that but on reflection thought that if you were approaching on the correct wide side everyone would have seen each other much sooner giving more time to stop etc.
Much better sight line equals much bigger stopping distance. Besides, had he been on the outside the gap in the middle is still there for one of them...and they'd have had time to safely observe who was going to use that gap.
Hey, already answered your comment twice, but for some reason it's not appearing on TH-cam so hopefully, third time's a charm. I get your point and others have also mentioned this. I did think about it and feel it would have much been better. We would have seen each other sooner and the guy in yellow could just have moved back to his lane. There's less risk the bikers will smash into each other and even if they do, it will probably be better than running into me. You could definitely argue that the bikers are also at fault, but at at the end of the day I feel like my mistake is much bigger and I'm responsible for at least 80% of it.
@@FineLine-Media Don't take all the blame on You. As i see, even if you were on the right side of the road, the cyclist were parallel to each other and then a collision would were unavoidable, or one of You had to jump to the "cliff " Randomly, because of your wrong line on the road, You had the chance to avoid the worst scenario Beside that, your bike is making noise and the cyclist should have been aware of your presence earlier and prevented it from riding parallel and giving You a clear "escape" route to the Right side.
This is a great breakdown. This is a typical complacency situation that is talked about often in job safety. The more you perform a certain thing incorrectly and get away with it the more likely you are to be injured.
Came around a corner on a dirt road on my KTM and a big bulldozer was cleaning debris .Another time it was a local farmer in a pick up .Both times stopped/passed but worthwhile using a lower gear and your finger(s) covering the Front Brake.One of the most important techniques to practice is braking,how to stop really quickly on dirt without crashing!.Chris Birch covers it in his excellent course.Good video
@@FineLine-Media Tyres should be almost skidding and on downhills rear wheel "chattering" takes a while to get right and better discs than the original crap KTM ones help a lot with the feel on some models.
One of the rules I try to ride by is "don't ride faster than my stopping distance" if that makes any sense. I too have been lured into this false sense of security after miles of "nothing" (no sketchy terrain, no oncoming traffic etc). Got stuck behind "captain slow" on a trail in the Ozarks once, which turned out to be a good thing. Had I gone my preferred speed I would've yeeted myself off the side of the mountain because the trail made a left, steep decent to cross a stream after the crest of a hill.
Yeah, it’s so easy to kind of sink into your own world on long and mostly empty roads like this, especially after a long day of riding. Keeping your stopping distance in mind makes sense, might even be a good exercise to try it on different types of terrain. You have a very Dutch name btw, do you have Dutch roots?
amazing video that might even help save lives in the future... I always tell my friend not too ride too close to me in the trails because "I might brake for no apparent reason, but it's because of other people and blind corners"
Thanks Toine, appreciate it! If this video helps to prevent just one accident, I’d be super happy. I was surprised how quickly you catch up when someone brakes firmly, because I wasn’t even following that close. I try to leave more space now. Another viewer also recommended to practice swerving, which is a great tip and fun to practice too. Thanks for watching!
I'm an experience rider and did the same thing on a large dirt road over the last weekend. Gave some poor gray haired lady a big scare. Totally 100% my fault. I cut the inside to avoid all of the sand and gravel kicked into the outside of the turn. No cars all day, and then on this turn was the lady in the Subaru. If she had taken me out, it would have been 100% my fault, but she managed to avoid me by less than a meter or so. I felt pretty bad.
I very much relate. I got my licence during pandemic too. And went straight into the TET here in UK. And got used to more often than not, riding trails that were 95% empty, so you get focused on the terrain, the grip, the trail. Then all if a sudden you come around a tight, overgrown corner and there is a dog walker, or a horse, or even a sheep (as happens to me several times). I do think it is a issue for us all, but especially riders that are still growing and learning off road riding. You are really focused on getting better at riding across multiple surfaces with constantly changing grip levels, changing steepness, obstacles etc. It’s especially easy to get used to being the only human on the trail. In certain areas, I can easily ride for hours and see absolutely nobody all day. So you get used to not seeing anybody. And other people not being a factor in what you are doing right here right now.
Great video. Your honesty is very refreshing. Thanks for sharing. Very well broken down and I'm sure your efforts will help prevent this from happening to someone else. I hope the two cyclists happen upon this video to see how you tried to find the to make amends. Good on you! I'd add that you were pushing yourself too hard for another reason: riding alone. If something had happened, you had no one there to assist or seek help. When riding alone, best to ride well below your limits and the terrain. Despite being in the US, I'll be cycling in Slovenia in a few months. Will have some extra time... looks like riding a moto would be a really cool diversion!
First of all, hats of for owning your mistakes and sharing them. I'm coming from a similar history. Started riding during the pandemic and focusing on softroad/offroad. While I never had this type of incident I do am wary about it a lot. Certainly because my wife and 10 year old kid do mountain biking a lot, I'm very aware of the possible dangers and really hope they never encounter this. I wouldn't want to know what would have happened if the cyclist would have been a kid that didn't move or chose the wrong way to evade. After 3 years of riding I still keep reminding myself: if it doesn't scare you a little bit, you're bound to get into a nasty situation eventually.
I teach dirt bike and ATV safety classes. An important part of the course is SEE: Scan/Search, Evaluate, and Execute. This should sound familiar to street riders, and it is infinitely more important off-road. On the street, there are lots of regulatory controls like traffic lights, speed limit signs, and stripes indicating traffic paths. In the off-road environment, regulatory controls are rare. So use SEE. Scan the entire area where you are riding for critical information. If you can't see (for any number of reasons like dust, sweat in your eyes, glare from the sun, etc.), you can't gather ANY critical info, so evaluate that ANYTHING could be coming from your blind spot. The correct decision to execute is to slow way down until you have enough time and space to react. Yes, it's fun to ride briskly on roads and trails. No, it's often not a good idea. BTW, BDR's Ride Right campaign is very valuable, but with a caveat: ride to the side that matches the local 'rules of the road'. In the US, most of Europe, etc., people have been conditioned to ride on the right on the street, and their reflexes will make them tend to follow that convention off-road. In the UK, NZL, Japan, etc. local conditioning is the opposite so Ride Left is the correct answer. If you can't reflexively do that because you are a visitor, SLOW DOWN so that you conscious brain can help you with the correct behavior.
The Toby price vid is epic. Good vid breakdown of your situation. Seems like a dangerous place to ride with those big drop offs and only space for one car. Recommend a PLB when riding alone. Personal location beacon are very helpful if you get hurt. Simply push the extend the antenna and help will arrive.
We all do mistakes. On road - off road, I have my fair bunch of close calls like every person who rides a motorcycle. The stupidity of others, I cannot fix, but taking the time and reflect what happened helps me fix my own stupid mistakes and be safer on my motorcycle. You did really good making this video, this incident not only made you a better driver, but possibly helped other people become better drivers too.
I can relate to so much of this - mountain biking (most of my injuries), cycling (2nd most injuries), dirt motorcyle riding, adv motorcycle riding. Just the rare stupid mistake can go really bad. Be careful out there!
I'm a cylict myself but I'm wondering why is noone mentioning the way these two were going downhill? They were riding next to each other which is extremely dangerous. So if you were riding your bike correctly on the right side of the road can you imagine what would happen with the other cylist? Would he be able to steer to his right or would you drive off the road? Then the roles would have been reversed and the cylist would be the one to blame. All in all you were not the only one creating a dangerous situation here.
The issues you raise are very much how I think. I understand adrenaline blindness with regards to cornering risk and head ons. One has to appreciate this and proactively mitigate it. When the adrenaline is pumping, rational thinking is out the window so to speak. Acceleration is the feeling that we associate for most of our time on flat ground feeling adrenaline, so I make sure I am not accelerating past 3/4 the length of any straight away leading up to a corner. This disrupts feeling only type riding which is dangerous at my skill level at least. I live in an area with many twisting roads and mountains where head on collisions are a constant risk. Especially when you have cars illegally racing and passing in the wrong lane - mostly on weekends. Or, from weekend drivers who don't know how to drive around corners without crossing the line, and or who are experiencing adrenaline without mitigating it's impact on how much they cross the line into my lane. Because of this, and since we drive on the right side, I hug the rightmost edge of the road around blind corners. When the hill slope is to my right, this forces me to drive very slowly around the corner, further requiring that I observe the 3/4 straightway/off the throttle rule. Since this (lane 3/position 3) all the way to the right riding around left turns has me against the edge of the slope, it's also dangerous there (collapsing road/dirt, no room for error or I go over the edge), I have no choice but to ride slow. Eventually, I'm learning to reeeeaaaaalllly respect corners because that's the big killer I think, next to non-one way, single track head ons. Thanks for the video and analysis, I wish more people thought this way.
Yeah, adrenaline can really take a hold of you. Not in the sense that I can't think rational anymore, but I'll just put those thought aside to chase the rush. Sounds super corny, but it's true nonetheless. I try to limit it to more controlled environments now. Thanks for your post!🙏
Yeah it’s the same here, that’s why I feel I’m more to blame than the cyclists. While one of them was in the wrong lane too, he widened his view while I narrowed it. At the same time, as many have pointed out, it’s strange they’re riding two abreast while they heard a motorbike coming. Only plausible explanation would be that they didn’t hear me, which is definitely possible because my bike sounds like a sewing machine. I can’t correct their behavior though, so best to look at my own and that showed plenty of room for improvement😉
I really appreciate this video. It's well done and honest and a good teaching moment. My only c`omment is asuggestion is to stop referring to an accident and call it a crash or an incident instead.
Thanks Chad! I'm actually saying 'incident' in the video (or at least meant to say) but I tend to talk quite fast, especially when there's a camera running, so maybe it sounds like accident or I misspoke.
The bicyclists riding two abreast did not leave you much room. If you had been in the right track, you still stood a chance of taking out the rider on that side. The biggest advantage of “staying right” is that it makes it obvious what the other trail users need to do when they cone upon you (also get to their right). I was just riding forest roads on my Africa Twin yesterday, here in Vermont. They are mostly two track, single car width, gravel roads. I did stay in the right track most of the time, and was moving along pretty good at 35-40 mph, but we have pretty good, open sight lines to oncoming traffic, and I also did not meet up with another soul all the way through. The advantage of riding mid-week.
Great video and selfrefecting! Good on you for focusing on your side of the situation but looks like the riders where in the same mind set and got to comfortably on the trail, if you were on the right side things could have potential been a lot worse. Thankfully everyone got out okay and got a chance to think about everything that happened!
Very good advice but keep in mind that practice, practice and then more practice makes you a safer rider, with better technique and better reflex reactions. When I say practice I mean the basics (for off road), how to static balance on the bike, move your body countering the lean angle in cornering, squeezing the front brake instead of grabbing it, look further ahead when you've picked up speed, stand on the balls of your feet when the path gets gnarly, lift your elbows in the attack position (MX style), apply the rear brake together with the front for shorter braking distance while moving your body further back, use the rear brake to steer the bike into a corner sliding the rear wheel into it, learn to lift the front wheel in order to pass over obstacles like an unexpected deep rut or pothole, lean forward when you accelerate, etc, etc. There are many good channels to pick up drills to improve your technique. After 20 years of riding, I still learn proper technique and good habits. It makes ridding not only more safe but also much more enjoyable and a lot less tiring. Motorcycling is such a joy.
Good job at learning from your mistakes and, even better, sharing your mistakes so others can learn from it too. A smart man learns from his mistakes, while a wise man learns from others mistakes
thank you for sharing - you learned your lesson, and shared with others to learn from that too. Glad that you decided to look for the bikers even you can't find them.
We kinda made the same mistake a few weeks ago in Croatia. When you're riding for hours and not meeting anyone you kinda forget that there is the possibility of oncoming traffic. Luckily my friend and the other motorcyclist also took the right choice.
Those sketchy moments just go to even further the adrenaline rush I live in Canada Ontario, and we do the same kind of riding on logging roads. It’s not very often you see a vehicle, but you do see vehicles staying on your side of the road is key you don’t want to hit a transport full of logs or even a truck the blind corners and hills it’s fun riding at 100 km an hour
As the “cyclist” type coming down the hill at times. I could not blame a motor bike…. I come down the hill way too fast myself so just as much at fault as anyone else.
Great vid. Good on you to own up. One thing...the cyclists were partially to blame. Both of them occupied both sides of the trail. Reg. Your riding. Always give yourself as much sight line as possible. Leave turning till the last moment possible, aim for the apex of the turn to keep that increasing or decreasing sight line. Basically ride for sight. The further you can see, the faster you can ride, and vice versa for decreased sight lines. Get in a habit of covering both your brake and clutch (one finger on each) that way If you need to pull either, you're not grabbing them, rather squeezing. No need to hold on to the bars with all your fingers...and it helps with whiskey throttle... Happy ridingex
Ride for sight, I like that! Good tip about constantly covering the brake and clutch AND good to know that helps with whiskey throttle, because that tree hug was definitely whiskey induced.😅 Thanks for your comment!
@FineLine-Media think it was a Chris Birch thing.. make your index fingers 👇 point like this...guns in holsters...every time you get on the bike your fingers 👉 should assume that position. I'll also help with keeping your elbows up which will make you smoother/faster over rough terrain
I like the honesty, and the big fact your saying your where in the wrong is pretty good personal trait. I am a motorcycle driver always wanted to diver offroad but never did, because i am to scared to damage my bike or make a realy big fall. Any tips?
Thanks man, appreciate it! As for tips: invest in protection, both personal and for your bike. For personal protection I'd recommend a good helmet (obviously), a full harness (chest, back, shoulders, kidney), elbow guards, knee braces and mx boots. For the bike I'd get at least a skid plate and some crash bars. It also helps to define your bike's weak points and protect those extra. For example: my CRF250L has a very exposed radiator, so I bought a radiator guard for some extra protection. Accept that you're going to fall more than once. It's usually at low speed and nothing scary. Oh, and never cut blind corners.😉 Enjoy!
This applies to whatever you're doing. Biking, Hiking, off road unicycle. No amount of precaution can stop random things from blocking your path. Even on bike only trails i've almost ran into hikers with dogs. stay safe but better yet stay lucky.
True, I ran into a drunk guy in a German bike park once. There’s a bar that’s popular place for bachelor parties at the top of the lift and this guy decided to stumble down a black rated downhill trail when it closed. Guy was standing on the edge of 2 meter drop, wondering how to get down.🤦♂️ Staying lucky is an important skill, definitely used some of it on this one.
That cliff you show at 6:20 looks insane, the drop at the outside of a corner and with that gravel, it looks so dangerous to me. I'd tip toe past a bit like, but to make it worse it's a blind corner, driving on the inside doesn't seem safe, driving on the edge of the cliff doesn't seem much better and I'd be scared of a car coming and pushing me off.
Seems like you wound up there by instinct. During WW2 a story goes that an American general was looking through a group of privates and corporals to be a driver for his jeep on trips to the front line. He described a road just like you showed with a steep cliff on one side and rock face on the other. Going through the line he asked one by one that when the artillery was coming down how close the edge could they go and how fast . All bragged of skills they claimed they had trying to out do each other for the job. Frustrated, he reached the last private in the group and he said he would avoid the cliff and hug the wall. As the others laughed at him, the general asked why. He said that whether or not the general was in the jeep he valued his life enough to not risk riding on the edge while being more at risk of getting hit by the shells or hit a shells hole and going off the cliff. That and the jeep would be too expensive to replace. The impressed general gave him that job😂.
Once had an encounter with a motor cyclist on a public road. He was on the wrong side of the road but so was I. My heart still stops thinking back on what could have gone wrong. It was more than 20 years ago, so do not worry: it could not have been you!
This is one of my biggest fears. I learned my lesson years ago when I almost avoided hitting a kid while mountain biking. It is also possible to hit a wild animal rather than a human. Especially where I live, there are many nightjars resting on middle of a dirt track at night and they fly towards the headlights of the vehicle.
Yeah, this was a huge wake up call for me too. I've been much more cautious in these scenario's ever since but you're right, wild animals will always remain tricky. I haven't come across nightjars but the deers over here sometimes pop up out of nowhere. Just happy there aren't any sharks along the trail, because that would be my biggest fear.😅 Thanks for watching!
There’s another factor that doesn’t involve any other traffic on the road. As you’ve not seen anything on the road in a couple of hours of riding ( for example) then that also means that if you slide off on gravel, bang into a tree or whatever, then there’s absolutely no chance of help coming by to give you a hand, raise the emergency services. A minor spill could leave you trapped and you could die up there. So ride according to the conditions and leave a good margin for error so if you do lose control, the speed at which your travelling doesn’t take you beyond the point where you can regain control. Travelling solo is a mindset. You want to complete the journey so the “ enjoyment” has to be dialled down a bit, to ensure the main goal is achieved.
Top marks for the video!
That's a very good point, I didn't think about that. I pinned your comment for everyone else to see.
Thanks for sharing!
Thats a very important tip nearly had it happen to me going way to fast just got lucky and the bike saved itself somehow didn’t crash but I definitely just slow down now always tell someone were you plan to ride just in case.
This is excellent advice!!
True, I opted for the automatic emergency services on my bike two years ago. For cars it is mandatory and on central european roads, cell coverage is good enough that you have a chance your call gets through. definately 200 bucks that are worth spending if you have an accident in a remote area or at night, because no one will find you if you go off a dark road in a forest at night. but you are right, better to go slower and avoid the accident than relying on tech to save you.
So refreshing to see someone sharing their mistakes and reflections. We all make them, it’s part of being human. It’s the attitude of being honest and ensuring that not only you learn but provide the opportunity for others to learn from it that’s important.
Thanks Dave!🙏
I totally agree. It seems our society's value beeing right higher than understanding an learning. This is such a hard habit to get rid of as an adult. Parents should focus more on it beeing absolutely ok if there kids have done or thought something wrong and embrace the opportunity to learn something instead of picking on a fault
It deserves a thumb up at least for this alone.
@@jenHry-ng3pw thanks man, I appreciate it!🙏
refreshing? lol Are U stupid? Let the stupid ones lay where they fall.
You are not like 99% of humans, you were literally able to stop your bike and analyze the situation, even trying to find them to apologize, then you researched your riding and made a mini 10 minute documentary to provide safety to others from your own mistakes. A true man. God Bless You Brotherr
@@thejoyofskating Thank you!🙏
On our forestry roads, it could be a logging truck coming toward you. It's a great incentive to keep right and stay aware.
Yeah, I also encountered a logging truck later on this same trip. I was on my side of the road going slowly (learned my lesson) and it still popped up out of nowhere. I was so surprised the bikers hadn't hear me coming, but I didn't hear the truck coming either. Sound doesn't like to travel around blind corners so it seems.😅
For me, our border patrol go around corners at break neck speed. They know there's dual sport and mountain bikers on the roads all the time, yet they still go 50mph around corners on the dirt roads.
@@FineLine-Media I notice when I ride for a long time, my ears start to get fatigued and I kind of tune out what's happening because all I was hearing was my bike and wind anyways. I don't think there's anything you could do to help yourself hear oncoming cyclists, maybe they need to start putting 50cc 2 strokes on every bike :p
@@xander4218 I don't ride off-road myself, but I'm always wearing earplugs when riding my motorbike. I've noticed that it makes me hear the important noises better instead of having them drown in the wind and engine noise.
Also, it makes a huge difference in mitigating the general fatigue on a long ride, which is a huge plus to help me stay focused.
I agree 100% with everything you said in this video, and it is also completely relevant for road riding! In a long trip where you barely cross path with anyone, overconfidence can be deadly.
Thanks for sharing 😉👍
@@FineLine-Media too bad we don't call them "deaf corners".
Thank you for owning your mistakes. The bicyclists were also making an error by taking up both sides of the road. But your video did the honorable thing and focus on your errors. It focused on what you could fix.
Exactly what I was thinking, including the kudo's for keeping focus on the personal learning points.
Looking from the other end of the story. When i hear a car or motorbike across the other side of a blind corner, i would not keep at speed, while side-by-side with my riding buddy like this.
Does not change anything here though, any less quick person on the other side in this case, could have easily gone wrong.
Tx for the video 👌
Actually, the cyclist on the wrong side is what let him see them earlier. Had they both been on the 'right' side the situation at best would have been unchanged, at worst he'd have had less time to react and hit them.
I think you should expect cyclists to be on both sides on trails.
@@PaulJakmaYes but also how the heck did they not hear him coming & drop into single file? I guess obviously not everyone can hear, but for me auditory awareness is definitely one of the things I most appreciate about riding a bicycle! All I can figure is that he was actually approaching much faster than this sports camera makes it look, & they simply didn't hear the exhaust until he was right on top of them. I have seen that happen a few times, _especially at corners_ that directed the sound away... Overall, just so many good examples of what to watch out for, in this video!
@@PaulJakmayes, as well as you should expect a full width car or truck or tractor with front cutting appliance to be taking the full road. Sure, they should stop, but you should be able to stop, too and not just run into them because that might kill you. And if they dont stop..well, i dont wanna die so i need to escape down the slope in case.
@@Hzwo1990 Great point. Tractors can have some really beefy and sharp iron mongery strapped to them!
After 4 years of ADV/DS riding I had my first collision with a side-by-side. Very similar scenario. The more you get away with something - the more you believe you will continue to get away with it. You nailed the rationale we use to get into this situation.
Thanks man! Hope you’re okay following the collision🙏
I am thoroughly impressed by the attitude of everyone here! A great video with some great insight and stories in the comments too!
Me too! I pinned your comment to encourage everyone to read them. There really are some great tips and advice below. Thanks for watching (everyone)!🙏
Superb film, brilliantly produced and a genuinely important message. If we are to retain access to these trails we must follow your advice.
Thanks man, appreciate it!🙏
The piece of advice I always bring with me is “what would happen if you met yourself coming the other way” - if I were to meet a biker like me also cutting the corner, we’d both just crash.
You’re right at the point in your biking where you’re most dangerous to yourself and others - nothing too terrible has happened (this incident aside) and therefore almost all of your biking has been positive feedback loops. We’re bikers, everyone else is out to get us, let’s not also make it easy for them!
Sounds like you’ve learned the lesson well tho, and thank you for sharing it in such detail. Hopefully someone will take the lesson you’re sharing without having to live the experience!! ❤
Good point about the positive feedback loop. That has made me feel overly confident on several occasions. I had some humbling experiences now though, like hugging that tree for instance.😉 Thanks for watching!🙏
The off-road community has grown so much I have close calls with side by sides quads and bigger vehicles so going fast can be scary in tight environments
Thanks for making this video. It is about finding the right frame of mind when riding, reflecting on your own performance and being honest with yourself. I reckon this makes you a safe rider. Well done mate.
Being honest with yourself is a good one. You can feel like you're Toby Price but to ride like him is a whole other thing. Thanks man, appreciate it!🙏
It's really healthy to have these kind of honest retrospectives on dangerous situations you have on your motorcycle. I recently flew through a red light, only managing to stop half way into the intersection, cause I was just being irresponsible riding way too fast around a corner in the city. I could have written that off as "no harm, no foul". But in hindsight I feel so awful because a pedestrian could have been in the crosswalk when I went over the line. Having a really honest dialogue with myself about that event genuinely changed some of my riding habits, hopefully for the better.
Glad you're okay!
Good Video, a reminder for all whom use the trail...., hiker, horseback, cyclist, overlander, and motorcyclist... shared trail, use Respect, watch your Speed, and consciencely keep re-assessing current conditions. I have been there too my friend, a very good reminder... thank you for making & sharing this video. Ride safe
Thanks man, appreciate it! It's nice to hear so many people "have been there too", although it's also slightly worrying😅
Kudos for sharing! Your mistake really got me thinking and I'll use this when I go on TET in some weeks.
That's so good to hear, man. Wish you an awesome trip!
Been riding off road for more than you can imagine. My dad taught me a very good rule that covers much of what happens off-road. “Never ride faster than you can see”. As a kid learning, as a young adult racing and ever since this rule has served me well. See, in this rule is not just about sight. It’s about seeing the situation for what it can become, because when it goes bad the first thing you say to yourself is always something like, “ I didn’t see that coming”. Things like conditions, possible traffic, your own skill, equipment, and speed come into play.
Your example is one I got drilled into me when riding in Colorado at the age of 9 on a very similar road. Dad sent me ahead with a friend. Next thing I know he passes us both, locks up the bike and slide stops us both. He got off the bike and gave us a lecture the bears in the area will still remember. We had been taking insides like you did and as kids had not accounted for the possibility of traffic miles into the wilderness.
Off-road riding also has a shit happens factor and it cannot be fully sanitized, it wouldn’t be any fun if it could be “safe”. Trust me, I have decades of examples. I even saw two guys in the open desert that did not know each other, that were both riding alone, come together on two tracks that merged at about a 5 degree angle. Neither on saw, heard or expected the otheer and literally side swiped each other.
Also, those two had an equal part in this situation, both fault side and save side.
Your dad had it half right, seeing is the first step, but the reaction also takes time, dodging or completely stopping depending on the situation/speed.
@@vashon100 I think you may have missed the point and not read my comment completely...
"See, in this rule is not just about sight. It’s about seeing the situation for what it can become, because when it goes bad the first thing you say to yourself is always something like, “ I didn’t see that coming”. Things like conditions, possible traffic, your own skill, equipment, and speed come into play".
Hey man, sorry for the late reply! Appreciate you taking the time to comment and go into this much detail.
I like the way your dad stopped you two, I can imagine that lesson stayed with you forever.
I agree that sports like this can’t be fully sanitized and that we don’t want them to be either. The risk is part of the appeal. I come from downhill mountain biking and am no stranger to crashes and injuries, but getting hurt while attempting a new drop or jump is very different than a collision. I like my life and prefer not to get hurt at all but my main concern with this incident was that I could have hurt someone else at the expense of my thrills. That just didn’t feel right.
‘Never ride faster than you can see’ is excellent advise and will keep that in kind for all future rides. Thanks! To you and your dad😉
@@FineLine-Media I appreciate the reply. My dad had a great impact on me and it's nice to hear that he continues helping others.
Your concern about others is healthy and will serve you well. Just remember in this off-road community most seem to share that perspective and responsibility, and when shit happens we all know the difference between disregard for others and when it's just a riding incident.
I really appreciate that you put this video out. I've been riding since the early 90s and am still learning. My thought was to not be too hard on yourself for this one. I you had been on the right, the outcome for one or both of you on that side could have been much worse. For safeties' sake, I do agree with you on not cutting those blind corners. Keep the rubber side down and all those other cliches!
I only read a few of the comments but the ones I've read say exactly how I feel about this. Good on you for sharing your mistake and trying to others to learn from it. Thank you.
Thank you for taking the time to post this video. I am an experienced motorcycle rider with over 50 years of riding and racing. I recently started dual-sport/adventure riding offroad. I completely understand the thrill you were experiencing while thinking of the Dakar racers. Sometimes I pretend as though I'm in the Baja 1000 on a stretch of hilly, gnarly, sandy road where I live. But I will try harder to keep in mind your incident and the 4 points while riding on public roads and trails. Your video is of great value.
Thanks for your comment! The Baja 1000 is a bucket list goal. Not sure if I’ll ever get there but it sure is fun to dream about it. “Imagination will take you everywhere” - Einstein.
Thanks for sharing. It's always helpful not only to discuss the things that could have been done better, but also to see how you tried to catch them so you could explain yourself.
Well done! Both visually/storytelling wise and content/message wise. Thanks!
Thanks my guy, much appreciated!🙏
Thanks so much for posting this video and reinforcing such an important message! It’s critical that we ride within our limits and always be aware of blind corners and preparing for them re slowing down and give yourself an escape route if at all possible. Thank you again!
Hi Toby and thanks for sharing your story.
Yes, you got lucky. And so have I many times. No judgement!
It’s a good video to show that even well intended, mostly well abiding citizens still can mess up things.
Glad you had the courage to share this video.
Ride safe
Thanks Italo, appreciate it!🙏 That is exactly the case I wanted to make so I'm glad the message comes across. Thanks for watching!
Been riding for decades, and your self reflection and self imposed rules are great to see (and video is appreciated). Know that even seasoned riders can slip into this type of thing easily. It requires constant vigilance.
That said, your blind corner rule is only half right. The rule you should strive for is that your stopping distance should never exceed your visible through line. Being on the inside was much less a problem than the speed in relation to visibility on inside. Being on the outside gives a much further visibility, and that's the main reason to take that line.
Rubber side down, brother!
Thanks man, appreciate it!🙏 Good point about the stopping distance, I’ll keep that in mind.
Spot on! Appreciate sharing that experience with us and I must admit, conditioning is something that affects my riding style quite a lot. The traffic was almost inexistent on the ACT Greece and you will easily fall under the “king of the road” syndrome
Your attitude immediately after the near-collision, your reflection in the time that followed, your attempt to find them, and ultimately making a video to help others is unfortunately a rare mindset, especially here in the US. Thank you!
Driving, not riding example, but: I try to always introspect/reflect to improve the safety and efficiency of my driving. I had a non-ideal moment a few days ago that had many similar aspects to your video. I was making an unprotected left turn at the intersection of a large neighborhood road and a divided highway, turning onto the highway. My primary focus was on assessing if there was oncoming traffic that would be proceeding straight, and the timing worked out that I was able to make the left without needing to come to a stop. As a turned in and looked ahead to the highway, I noticed a pedestrian crossing directly in my path.
Thankfully I had plenty of room to come to a complete stop without getting anywhere near the pedestrian, but there is maybe one instance per year where something on the road (ahead of, next to, or behind me) takes me by surprise - I put a huge effort into trying to have a virtual "birds eye view" of my surroundings while I drive, so this was a big wakeup call. There were a few factors at play here that led to my negligence. First, the divided highway I was turning onto is slightly elevated from the neighborhood road, which led to my van's a-pillar obstructing my view of the crosswalk more than usual. Secondly, my attention was primarily focused on oncoming traffic, not on the crosswalk, so combined with the partial obstruction of my peripheral vision, a situation where I would normally have noticed the pedestrian became one where I didn't notice them at all (before I initiated the turn, they were at about 30-45deg left of straight ahead, easily within my peripheral vision).
Lastly, and most importantly, I have been conditioned to not expect a pedestrian in that spot. I navigate that intersection at least twice every day, and I see a pedestrian there maybe once every month or so (compared to a couple dozen cars every time I drive through). So, it simply didn't occur to me in the moment that in addition to looking ahead, I should also be keeping an eye out for someone on foot. Lesson learned, and thankfully learned with zero consequences, and I will absolutely be more vigilant no matter where I am driving.
One last note, that in no way excuses my own lack of attention, the road design in my area is often outright malicious to anyone not in a car (and often to cars, too). The length of that crosswalk is 35m, even at a brisk pace it would take at least 20 seconds to cross it. The sightlines from vehicles to the crosswalk are terrible due to landscape and volume of vehicles present, and the geometry of the lanes is awful - often people drive straight through left-turn-only lanes because they line up perfectly with the road straight ahead. Also, The divided highway southbound sees a speed limit increase from 50mph to 55mph at that intersection, but as you proceed towards the intersection and the faster speed limit, there is a 1km downhill section all the way into the intersection at something like 6-7% gradient. The average southbound traffic speed through there is usually 60-65mph, and coming from the other direction vehicles are usually doing 70mph+. Every few months there are major car-to-car accidents there.
Thanks for the kind words.🙏 Glad to hear your own story ended without any real damage or injury too. Stay safe and thanks for watching!
This is really refreshing. Every road (or off road) user should have this mindset. People make mistakes. I mean you kind if got off lucky it could have gone way worse. But as others have said, your owning your inexperience and mistakes and I'm certain you will learn from this and hopefully not repeat it. I would be the person on the cycle and some remote places where I live are plagued with pit bikes who think those trails belong to them and consider no one else in their endeavours.
Thanks man, appreciate it.🙏 Definitely got lucky!
❤ this came into my feed just after responding to a comment from a guy who broke his knee. He didn’t say exactly how, but I asked him about it and how it was healing, and he said that a year and a half later he’s having a problem walking and may have to get a knee replacement.
I’m just gearing up for a trip across the West Coast of the US, some back roads, on a bigger bike than I’ve ever owned, after a couple decades away from riding. This video, your video, should get a lot more views. It’s really well-made, and hits hard.
Thank you so much!❤
Unfortunately a friend of mine who I was supposed to go on a trip with this summer is also having a hard time recovering from a knee injury, tearing his ligaments in a very dull motorcycle accident. Apparently it doesn't take that much. Many of my friends have bought knee braces since hearing his story. They're expensive but they seem to offer quite a bit of protection. I have the Leatt X Hybrid Pro and really like them. They are more affordable and a bit sleeker than the Mobius and Leatt Z knee braces my friends have, I'm not sure which one is better though. I do think it's a smart investment.
Enjoy your trip and thanks for your post!
Good video. I had a friend almost loose his life on a back road like this getting hit head on by a drunk driver. He did loose total use of his left arm permanently. Despite the errors I almost feel that this worked out about as good as it could have considering they were also not riding on their side of the road. Had you been on the outside of the corner like you should have one or both of you could have collided and gone off the edge or just gone off the edge trying to miss one another. Seems like everyone got pretty lucky here. I'll admit that on these long rides in the middle of nowhere with little to no other traffic it's really easy to get complacent. I admire your willingness to post the video. Everything seems to have been properly handled. Props to you for trying to do the right thing.
Sorry to hear about your friend, that's a nightmare scenario. I hope he's still enjoying life.
We definitely all got lucky that day. I find it difficult to say if it would have been worse if I was on the outside. We would have seen each other a bit sooner giving us more time to react, but like you say, we'd also be closer to the edge leaving less room for evasive manoeuvres. Nobody got hurt and that is the best outcome, so I'm inclined to agree with you. Thanks for your comment, I appreciate the support.
This was a really thoughtful and helpful and also important video, thankyou for sharing! Honest assessment of our own mistakes is so valuable isn’t it, and important in avoiding repeats. I just had a head on crash with my best mate on our dirtbikes on the weekend, and we did a bit of a debrief assessment as well, and worked out some good plans for avoiding that again (fortunately no major injuries), but the assessment of mental state as well in this is something very helpful to add to it. Thankyou!
Oof, glad you guys are okay! Yeah, a bit of self reflection goes a long way. In all honesty, it’s not something I do regularly but taking the time to think about this incident gave me some insights I otherwise wouldn’t have. And better yet, by sharing it I’ve gained even more. It’s been cool to get so many constructive reactions, lots of experience and wisdom in the comments. Thanks for the kind words, really nice to hear it’s been helpful. Happy riding and stay safe!🙏
@@FineLine-Media cheers and thanks for such a nice reply! 😊
In the U.S.A., we live by the "ride right" slogan.. so even on a one lane road like this, we try to always stay to the right side of the road. Mostly because we drive on the right side of the road. I'm assuming that you normally drive on the left side of the road when on the streets, so I would think people in Europe would default to staying on the left side of the trail. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Looking at your incident, you would have had a problem despite your lane position. The mountain bikes were taking up both lanes. Even if you had been on the other side of the road, you would have just had to dodge the other bike. They should have at least heard your motor as you were approaching them. I wouldn't beat myself up about it too hard. This looks like a hard situation to figure out who was in the right, but no one was hurt.
How fast you're riding should be dictated by how far ahead you can see.. if you can't see far, then slow it down.. if you have a good line of vision then hammer down.
The Dutch drive like everyone else on the continent, on the right side.
Just the UK is on the left.
Those guys were on road or gravel bikes BTW.
I think most people in Europe know the "ride right" principle. I did anyway, although I've never heard it mentioned like that. It does make it simple to remind yourself.🙂
I agree he is not entirely in the wrong. On a narrow trail like that the other bikers shouldn’t have been taking up both sides of the road. They didn’t account for anyone else on the trail either, but instead of only taking up half the road they took up the whole thing. This incident would have played out with a lot less drama had they been ridding in single file.
Only one country in Europe drive on the wrong (left) side of the road...
Hi, big respect for your inward reflection and self analysis.
Something I work on now is “If you can’t see where you’re going to be in 5 seconds you’re going too fast” this gives you and things coming towards you time to asses and react and stop if necessary, so yeah, you can go on the inside of blind corners but reduce your speed to how far (in time) you can see. Obviously this won’t help you win races, but it’s a great rule for road and trail riding.
I say this from 45 years road riding, 40years trail riding, 25 years competing in enduro and rallies and 15 years teaching road riding, and I’m still listening to and learning from other’s experiences, we’ve all got something to share.
That's a great tip and a serious amount of experience. Appreciate it, thanks!🙏
Good video; I find myself cutting corners as well off road and I’ve had several close encounters. One recommendnation here is also to practice swerving; you didn’t swerve when your buddy stopped unexpectedly. Best wishes good video
That's a very good tip, never thought about that but I will definitely include it in my riding drills! Thanks for watching🙏
Anytime i go offroading i always remind myself that im not alone. This helps me not to go too much reckless.
Earned the sub for publishing on a difficult subject.
I'm a rider of 40 years, and had my fair share of stupid mistakes. It conditions you.
I'd probably not be going as fast as that off road, due to a matter of personal responsibility.
I think the trend for people carrying SOS beacons expecting someone else to save them pushes caution to the wind and raises expectations in others.
I've not seen a SOS recovery situation that wasn't totally avoidable.
Looking forward to having a look through your channel
Thanks, I appreciate it!
To be honest, I wasn't carrying a SOS beacon either, I went full stupidity.😉 I've become a lot more cautious since this incident though and will probably get one of those beacons just in case. But even if I do, I'll try to keep out of situations where I need to use it. I've received a lot of great advice (see comments), with ride right, slow down and the SEE approach being just a few of 'em.
It's been really cool to get so many constructive reactions. Thanks for watching!🙏
Even after riding for a while it’s easy to let the excitement of a new ride and a new environment. Thanks for your honesty and your video👍
Yeah, I expect I’ll have to remind myself frequently😅
Nothing more to say that hasn’t already been said thank you for sharing a top vid and hopefully making others aware of how easy this can happen, ride safe and have great adventures 🤘🏼
Thanks, you too man!✌️
Really nice After Action Report. It’s always good to learn from our mistakes. It’s even better when we can learn from someone else’s. 🙏
People never talk about this enough. Accidents happen especially on a motorcycle, know how to react and prevent an accident is incredibly important and needs to be talked about more.
Well done for posting this. I really liked your self-analysis and your 3 reasons - (hype, conditioning, fear). Another reason I've observed is fatigue. Towards the end of the day when you get tired, you can get a bit lazy and unfocused, then start "cutting corners" or "following too close" or "taking poor line choices" without realizing it. Cheers
Yes, that's a big one actually and should have been included. This also happened quite late in the day, probably around 16:00 or something, and I think this played a big roll in me not steering back to my own side of the road. Tired, not focused, couldn't be bothered. A lack of variation in the trail also didn't help. The TET Sovenia is really nice, but some of those gravel sections are pretty long. Thanks for watching!🙏
Hey man, everything was said already about the content (I’ll save you my opinion on bicycle riders, we suffer them a lot here in Switzerland), but I have to say that I really think that you have a nice frame for your video, nice colors and good sound. It’s not often that you see that small of a channel with that high quality of footage. Love it.
Thanks man, that's nice to hear!🙏Would love to take credit for the coloring, but that's mostly Fuji's doing. It's their Provia film emulation.
i appreciate your concern and effort to share your insight... sadly we need to make mistakes to learn, happy no one got hurt.
Great video. I wasn't really going too fast or cutting a blind corner, but I was in a very remote part of Idaho(USA) and I was going around a blind right turn, I was fairly tight on the wall and it saved me, I ended up dodging a forest service truck by a few inches. Very scary. Like you said, never cut blind corners and only ride as fast as you can see. This is especially important in the US where we have a lot of SxS's, which are extremely easy to operate and extremely capable offroad. Which leads to inexperienced drivers. I also often see them with a beer in their hand(while driving), it's pretty scary.
I ride solo like 90% of the time, and the biggest safety tool you have as a solo rider is your mindset. Always have a gps tracker of course, but that's something you never want to use. What really saves you is your mindset and self control. When I'm solo, in remote places especially, I try to never exceed 70% of my riding ability. I also strictly follow my gut, if I see something and I have a lot of hesitation and am unsure if I can do it, I'll just turn around. It's not worth ruining a multi day trip for the sake of a single obstacle. If I want to improve my ability on harder obstacles but I don't have anyone to go with, I make sure people know where I am, and I try to make as much of a controlled situation as possible by getting off the bike and walking my lines. If I can, I try to practice in places that I know have cell service too.
Great comment! I like to walk my lines too, it's a habit I developed in mountain biking. Ironically, by walking my lines I also tend to ride more stuff that's outside my comfort zone/skill level because when you walk the lines enough times, one is bound to start looking doable. Seriously though, great tips. I'm going to copy this approach.
Being a beginner rider is hard, i started on a 60cc, and after a year, I went all in onto a 450cc dirtbike. I loved the speed, but sometimes i crashed, broke the bike and got hurt or burned. The best thing i learned is to ride in the middle of the path. Sometimes, it is okay to take risks, but most times u have to think that behind that corner there is danger. At any time you can come to a sudden turn. U never know.
Happy riding and stay safe❤
Middle of the path sounds pretty good, might be a nice compromise with those steep drops along the road. Thanks man, you too!🙏
Thank you so much for sharing! You are going to be great and safe rider with this mindset :D
I hope so, haha. Thanks man, appreciate it🙏
Great that you made this and that you are so honest about the psyche behind this kind of incident.❤ I do a lot of outdoor risky things as well and always ask myself "how do I make this safe enough?" That way, I usually spot quite a few risks/influences upfront and decide what I'm actually doing about them. It's new, I'm stoked, there is a lot of objective danger, I haven't done this before, I'm on my own, I'm tired from yesterday, I'm riding great, I've eaten well, setup feels great, I know the route and where the difficulties are, I've got plenty of time. Based on this I'd probably concentrate on flow and technique rather than speed. If I went through a harder section I enjoy, I go back and push through it with more speed. Trouble is I actually now f# all about off road riding, but it's interesting that the thinking seems to cross over to many things.😂
PS I also think having a camera running, doing voice over and thinking about filming can have an (often negative) influence on behaviour
That’s great advice. I do try to ground myself more nowadays and focusing on flow instead speed will add to that nicely. Cameras definitely negatively influence your behavior. It’s for that exact reason, that you’re not allowed an action camera in skydiving until you’ve got like an x amount of jumps. Thanks for watching!🙏
brilliant information my friend as a newer rider myself who wishes to do more off road journeys. this is a top tip. atb Glen
Great video and analysis.
Where I ride, I can't think of a single occasion where I saw someone _not_ cutting blind corners. It's pretty much 100% the way people do it - cut the corner and rely on your reactions. Freaks me out. So when my lane is on the inside of the curve, I slow right down and really hug the inside, even if it's littered with rocks. Many times I've had a vehicle come past going the other way where they are in my lane, and I'm on the edge of the road in the gutter and rubble.
Rules of road still apply. Keep to your side of the road, if I can’t see through the bend then slowing down is the option.
Great video. Refreshing to see someone analysing a situation rather than blaming everything apart for themselves and making excuses.
The wider point about positioning is you would have had the same problem if you had been riding on the right as a cyclist still would have been in your path.....but with positioning on the outside of the bend you would both have seen each other sooner ......
Thanks man, appreciate it!🙏 In addition to seeing each other sooner, another benefit of being on the outside would have been that it's a pretty safe and logical manoeuvre for the yellow cyclist to just steer back to his lane. Now we're all thinking: what the heck?!
I live on a section of the UK tet (tight forest trails and rivers) and rule number one (on mtb or enduro/trail bike) I learned quickly - only ride as fast as you can stop. If you can’t see around a corner then you’re unlikely to stop if your speeding and there’s a 4x4 parked in the blind part of the corner.
Good video, i feel like i‘m also sometimes guilty of the downplaying part while riding my Mountainbike. That‘s a strong reminder to not rail blind corners
Really cool of you to post something as sensitive as this. We could all benefit from a bit of introspection and really putting ourselves under the lens like this. Also, where can I watch the Slovenia Trans Euro motovlog? Cheers.
Thanks man, appreciate it!🙏 The Slovenia vlog will come out soon, I paused the editing to makes this video first. I’ll try to finish it in the next 2 weeks.
This should be a must-watch for all of us TET riders. Thank you for posting.
Thank you!🙏
Good analysis and I admire your humility in admitting your mistakes. I'm surprised those guys never heard the bike coming though and switched into single file for their own safety. I hope they see the video
Thanks man, appreciate it! Yeah, I'm pretty surprised about that too. I do have a pretty quiet pipe though. Like the tamest sewing machine ever.
I had an exact same incident on the NMBDR. Totally my fault. I came within paint scratching distance from a head-on with a full size truck. I would probably have been killed. I went through the same mental exercises that you did. We need to be thinking safety every second.
The bad thing in your case was that the other bicycle rider was incorrectly riding on his wrong side. If you had been where you should have been, you might have hit him. Hopefully, you both learned a lesson the hard way.
Can't speak for the biker, but I did!
It's nice to see you taking responsibility.
Whenever we blame others, we give up control and make our fate dependent on others (and thus only on luck, actually). Only when we take responsibility and blame ourselves can we improve what can be improved and thus (re)gain control and growth.
Great analysis! Makes you think and reminded me of my own close calls. 😬
In group rides there can be even another component of "ego" that leads to increased risks.
Also very honorable that you tried to find the guys to say sorry.
Save riding! ❤
Thanks man, appreciate your comment!🙏
Yeah, group dynamics can really amplify that hyped feeling. We have a group of friends with someone who organises cross events on mx tracks for adventure and dual sport bikes, that's a pretty good outlet for that energy, because I'm definitely not opposed to it. It's fun to get rowdy with the boys. Just good to be mindful about it too.
I’m a cyclist and you know that on two track, when you hear an ATV you don’t hog the trail. You get ready to make way and you single file. Horses are the worst because they’re silent.
they cleared the middle of the trail...
and why do we have lower priority?
Thank you for sharing your experience. As an avid mtb'er that hits FSRs regularly I still believe the cyclists were in a bad position, and also, weren't listening. They should've heard you coming plain and simple. Again, I appreciate your humbleness, and glad everyone came away unscathed. I wish you all the best on your future adventures.
The more I’ve spoken about it with viewers, the more I realize the cyclists dropped the ball too. I still made some serious mistakes myself, but it’s been nice getting back-up from so many of you so, thanks! All the best to you too🙏
I'm impressed to find this kind of attitude from motorbike rider...so humble and so committed to admit it was your mistake...usually motorists(especially car drivers) tend to be arrogant, and they don't respect the other road users...if they make a mistake that could potentially kill you they don't even apologize
Thanks man, appreciate the kind words! It was actually quite a fun exercise to analyze why I messed up and the amount of constructive comments have really been the cherry on top.
But the cyclists were on both left and right side of the way. You pass them in between. What could possibly happened if you were riding on the right side ? Did you think about that?
I too initially thought that but on reflection thought that if you were approaching on the correct wide side everyone would have seen each other much sooner giving more time to stop etc.
Much better sight line equals much bigger stopping distance. Besides, had he been on the outside the gap in the middle is still there for one of them...and they'd have had time to safely observe who was going to use that gap.
Hey, already answered your comment twice, but for some reason it's not appearing on TH-cam so hopefully, third time's a charm.
I get your point and others have also mentioned this. I did think about it and feel it would have much been better. We would have seen each other sooner and the guy in yellow could just have moved back to his lane. There's less risk the bikers will smash into each other and even if they do, it will probably be better than running into me. You could definitely argue that the bikers are also at fault, but at at the end of the day I feel like my mistake is much bigger and I'm responsible for at least 80% of it.
@@FineLine-Media Don't take all the blame on You. As i see, even if you were on the right side of the road, the cyclist were parallel to each other and then a collision would were unavoidable, or one of You had to jump to the "cliff "
Randomly, because of your wrong line on the road, You had the chance to avoid the worst scenario
Beside that, your bike is making noise and the cyclist should have been aware of your presence earlier and prevented it from riding parallel and giving You a clear "escape" route to the Right side.
@@nickfry7705 that only works if the other person is not driving at really high speed.
This is a great breakdown. This is a typical complacency situation that is talked about often in job safety. The more you perform a certain thing incorrectly and get away with it the more likely you are to be injured.
Thanks! Yes, bad habits and routines can quickly get you in trouble. I like to think I have one bad habit less now.
Came around a corner on a dirt road on my KTM and a big bulldozer was cleaning debris .Another time it was a local farmer in a pick up .Both times stopped/passed but worthwhile using a lower gear and your finger(s) covering the Front Brake.One of the most important techniques to practice is braking,how to stop really quickly on dirt without crashing!.Chris Birch covers it in his excellent course.Good video
I’ll go watch that, thanks!🙏
@@FineLine-Media Tyres should be almost skidding and on downhills rear wheel "chattering" takes a while to get right and better discs than the original crap KTM ones help a lot with the feel on some models.
Thanks for posting that. I appreciate you honest evaluation.
Super video … best wishes !
We all have the opportunity to learn. Thanks !
One of the rules I try to ride by is "don't ride faster than my stopping distance" if that makes any sense.
I too have been lured into this false sense of security after miles of "nothing" (no sketchy terrain, no oncoming traffic etc).
Got stuck behind "captain slow" on a trail in the Ozarks once, which turned out to be a good thing. Had I gone my preferred speed I would've yeeted myself off the side of the mountain because the trail made a left, steep decent to cross a stream after the crest of a hill.
Yeah, it’s so easy to kind of sink into your own world on long and mostly empty roads like this, especially after a long day of riding. Keeping your stopping distance in mind makes sense, might even be a good exercise to try it on different types of terrain. You have a very Dutch name btw, do you have Dutch roots?
@@FineLine-Media I moved to the US about 7 years ago
@@NinkeWestra Nice! Much better riding over there😉
amazing video that might even help save lives in the future... I always tell my friend not too ride too close to me in the trails because "I might brake for no apparent reason, but it's because of other people and blind corners"
Thanks Toine, appreciate it! If this video helps to prevent just one accident, I’d be super happy. I was surprised how quickly you catch up when someone brakes firmly, because I wasn’t even following that close. I try to leave more space now. Another viewer also recommended to practice swerving, which is a great tip and fun to practice too. Thanks for watching!
I'm an experience rider and did the same thing on a large dirt road over the last weekend. Gave some poor gray haired lady a big scare. Totally 100% my fault. I cut the inside to avoid all of the sand and gravel kicked into the outside of the turn. No cars all day, and then on this turn was the lady in the Subaru. If she had taken me out, it would have been 100% my fault, but she managed to avoid me by less than a meter or so. I felt pretty bad.
Gray haired lady's have proven survival instincts. And the fact that you felt bad proves you're a decent human being. Glad you're okay bud.
I very much relate.
I got my licence during pandemic too. And went straight into the TET here in UK.
And got used to more often than not, riding trails that were 95% empty, so you get focused on the terrain, the grip, the trail.
Then all if a sudden you come around a tight, overgrown corner and there is a dog walker, or a horse, or even a sheep (as happens to me several times).
I do think it is a issue for us all, but especially riders that are still growing and learning off road riding. You are really focused on getting better at riding across multiple surfaces with constantly changing grip levels, changing steepness, obstacles etc.
It’s especially easy to get used to being the only human on the trail. In certain areas, I can easily ride for hours and see absolutely nobody all day. So you get used to not seeing anybody. And other people not being a factor in what you are doing right here right now.
Yeah, it's quite easy to sink into your own bubble, especially when fatigue sets in. From now on we'll be extra vigilant in those moments. Ride safe🙏
Great video. Your honesty is very refreshing. Thanks for sharing. Very well broken down and I'm sure your efforts will help prevent this from happening to someone else.
I hope the two cyclists happen upon this video to see how you tried to find the to make amends. Good on you!
I'd add that you were pushing yourself too hard for another reason: riding alone. If something had happened, you had no one there to assist or seek help. When riding alone, best to ride well below your limits and the terrain.
Despite being in the US, I'll be cycling in Slovenia in a few months. Will have some extra time... looks like riding a moto would be a really cool diversion!
Thanks man, appreciate it!🙏 I hope they see it too.
PS riding a moto will definitely be a cool diversion.
First of all, hats of for owning your mistakes and sharing them.
I'm coming from a similar history. Started riding during the pandemic and focusing on softroad/offroad. While I never had this type of incident I do am wary about it a lot.
Certainly because my wife and 10 year old kid do mountain biking a lot, I'm very aware of the possible dangers and really hope they never encounter this. I wouldn't want to know what would have happened if the cyclist would have been a kid that didn't move or chose the wrong way to evade.
After 3 years of riding I still keep reminding myself: if it doesn't scare you a little bit, you're bound to get into a nasty situation eventually.
Thanks! Yes, I was lucky neither of these guys panicked and did something weird. Things could have ended very differently then.
I teach dirt bike and ATV safety classes. An important part of the course is SEE: Scan/Search, Evaluate, and Execute. This should sound familiar to street riders, and it is infinitely more important off-road. On the street, there are lots of regulatory controls like traffic lights, speed limit signs, and stripes indicating traffic paths. In the off-road environment, regulatory controls are rare. So use SEE.
Scan the entire area where you are riding for critical information. If you can't see (for any number of reasons like dust, sweat in your eyes, glare from the sun, etc.), you can't gather ANY critical info, so evaluate that ANYTHING could be coming from your blind spot. The correct decision to execute is to slow way down until you have enough time and space to react.
Yes, it's fun to ride briskly on roads and trails. No, it's often not a good idea.
BTW, BDR's Ride Right campaign is very valuable, but with a caveat: ride to the side that matches the local 'rules of the road'. In the US, most of Europe, etc., people have been conditioned to ride on the right on the street, and their reflexes will make them tend to follow that convention off-road. In the UK, NZL, Japan, etc. local conditioning is the opposite so Ride Left is the correct answer. If you can't reflexively do that because you are a visitor, SLOW DOWN so that you conscious brain can help you with the correct behavior.
This is really helpful, thanks! I’ll use it and SEE where it takes me.
Great video! Thank you for sharing this situation and your experience
The Toby price vid is epic. Good vid breakdown of your situation. Seems like a dangerous place to ride with those big drop offs and only space for one car. Recommend a PLB when riding alone. Personal location beacon are very helpful if you get hurt. Simply push the extend the antenna and help will arrive.
Right?! The whole film is super cool, it's available on TH-cam for free.
A PLB is indeed a very smart idea, I'll look into that. Thanks!
We all do mistakes. On road - off road, I have my fair bunch of close calls like every person who rides a motorcycle. The stupidity of others, I cannot fix, but taking the time and reflect what happened helps me fix my own stupid mistakes and be safer on my motorcycle. You did really good making this video, this incident not only made you a better driver, but possibly helped other people become better drivers too.
100%. Thanks for the kind words man🙏
I can relate to so much of this - mountain biking (most of my injuries), cycling (2nd most injuries), dirt motorcyle riding, adv motorcycle riding. Just the rare stupid mistake can go really bad. Be careful out there!
So many bruised ribs with mountain biking😂 Hoping to keep the number of motorcycle accidents significantly lower. Thanks for watching!
Much Enjoyment 👍😎
Thx for the honesty - very valuable 🙏
I'm a cylict myself but I'm wondering why is noone mentioning the way these two were going downhill? They were riding next to each other which is extremely dangerous. So if you were riding your bike correctly on the right side of the road can you imagine what would happen with the other cylist? Would he be able to steer to his right or would you drive off the road? Then the roles would have been reversed and the cylist would be the one to blame. All in all you were not the only one creating a dangerous situation here.
The issues you raise are very much how I think. I understand adrenaline blindness with regards to cornering risk and head ons. One has to appreciate this and proactively mitigate it. When the adrenaline is pumping, rational thinking is out the window so to speak. Acceleration is the feeling that we associate for most of our time on flat ground feeling adrenaline, so I make sure I am not accelerating past 3/4 the length of any straight away leading up to a corner. This disrupts feeling only type riding which is dangerous at my skill level at least. I live in an area with many twisting roads and mountains where head on collisions are a constant risk. Especially when you have cars illegally racing and passing in the wrong lane - mostly on weekends. Or, from weekend drivers who don't know how to drive around corners without crossing the line, and or who are experiencing adrenaline without mitigating it's impact on how much they cross the line into my lane. Because of this, and since we drive on the right side, I hug the rightmost edge of the road around blind corners. When the hill slope is to my right, this forces me to drive very slowly around the corner, further requiring that I observe the 3/4 straightway/off the throttle rule. Since this (lane 3/position 3) all the way to the right riding around left turns has me against the edge of the slope, it's also dangerous there (collapsing road/dirt, no room for error or I go over the edge), I have no choice but to ride slow. Eventually, I'm learning to reeeeaaaaalllly respect corners because that's the big killer I think, next to non-one way, single track head ons. Thanks for the video and analysis, I wish more people thought this way.
Yeah, adrenaline can really take a hold of you. Not in the sense that I can't think rational anymore, but I'll just put those thought aside to chase the rush. Sounds super corny, but it's true nonetheless. I try to limit it to more controlled environments now. Thanks for your post!🙏
In the U.S. the unspoken rule seems to be to stay right generally including around blind corners which on right hand turns means "cutting" the corner.
Yeah it’s the same here, that’s why I feel I’m more to blame than the cyclists. While one of them was in the wrong lane too, he widened his view while I narrowed it. At the same time, as many have pointed out, it’s strange they’re riding two abreast while they heard a motorbike coming. Only plausible explanation would be that they didn’t hear me, which is definitely possible because my bike sounds like a sewing machine. I can’t correct their behavior though, so best to look at my own and that showed plenty of room for improvement😉
I really appreciate this video. It's well done and honest and a good teaching moment.
My only c`omment is asuggestion is to stop referring to an accident and call it a crash or an incident instead.
Thanks Chad! I'm actually saying 'incident' in the video (or at least meant to say) but I tend to talk quite fast, especially when there's a camera running, so maybe it sounds like accident or I misspoke.
The bicyclists riding two abreast did not leave you much room. If you had been in the right track, you still stood a chance of taking out the rider on that side. The biggest advantage of “staying right” is that it makes it obvious what the other trail users need to do when they cone upon you (also get to their right).
I was just riding forest roads on my Africa Twin yesterday, here in Vermont. They are mostly two track, single car width, gravel roads. I did stay in the right track most of the time, and was moving along pretty good at 35-40 mph, but we have pretty good, open sight lines to oncoming traffic, and I also did not meet up with another soul all the way through. The advantage of riding mid-week.
Yes, week days are best for riding for sure, although I actually think this happened midweek. Never safe.😉
Great video and selfrefecting! Good on you for focusing on your side of the situation but looks like the riders where in the same mind set and got to comfortably on the trail, if you were on the right side things could have potential been a lot worse. Thankfully everyone got out okay and got a chance to think about everything that happened!
Excellent video. Thanks for sharing.
Very good advice but keep in mind that practice, practice and then more practice makes you a safer rider, with better technique and better reflex reactions.
When I say practice I mean the basics (for off road), how to static balance on the bike, move your body countering the lean angle in cornering, squeezing the front brake instead of grabbing it, look further ahead when you've picked up speed, stand on the balls of your feet when the path gets gnarly, lift your elbows in the attack position (MX style), apply the rear brake together with the front for shorter braking distance while moving your body further back, use the rear brake to steer the bike into a corner sliding the rear wheel into it, learn to lift the front wheel in order to pass over obstacles like an unexpected deep rut or pothole, lean forward when you accelerate, etc, etc.
There are many good channels to pick up drills to improve your technique. After 20 years of riding, I still learn proper technique and good habits. It makes ridding not only more safe but also much more enjoyable and a lot less tiring.
Motorcycling is such a joy.
For sure! Actually started doing this and it's been doing wonders for my bike control. Llel from Brake Magazine had a few very nice videos about it.
Good job at learning from your mistakes and, even better, sharing your mistakes so others can learn from it too. A smart man learns from his mistakes, while a wise man learns from others mistakes
I can see how not seeing anyone for hours can make you think no one is out there. Lesson learned dont beat yourself up man all is well that ends well.
thank you for sharing - you learned your lesson, and shared with others to learn from that too. Glad that you decided to look for the bikers even you can't find them.
Maybe they'll find this video😉
We kinda made the same mistake a few weeks ago in Croatia. When you're riding for hours and not meeting anyone you kinda forget that there is the possibility of oncoming traffic. Luckily my friend and the other motorcyclist also took the right choice.
Glad to see that you can acknowledge your mistakes and own up to your actions
Safety video, had to watch, thank you!
Good to share safety advice - thanks.
Those sketchy moments just go to even further the adrenaline rush I live in Canada Ontario, and we do the same kind of riding on logging roads. It’s not very often you see a vehicle, but you do see vehicles staying on your side of the road is key you don’t want to hit a transport full of logs or even a truck the blind corners and hills it’s fun riding at 100 km an hour
As the “cyclist” type coming down the hill at times. I could not blame a motor bike…. I come down the hill way too fast myself so just as much at fault as anyone else.
Great vid. Good on you to own up. One thing...the cyclists were partially to blame. Both of them occupied both sides of the trail.
Reg. Your riding.
Always give yourself as much sight line as possible. Leave turning till the last moment possible, aim for the apex of the turn to keep that increasing or decreasing sight line.
Basically ride for sight. The further you can see, the faster you can ride, and vice versa for decreased sight lines.
Get in a habit of covering both your brake and clutch (one finger on each) that way If you need to pull either, you're not grabbing them, rather squeezing. No need to hold on to the bars with all your fingers...and it helps with whiskey throttle...
Happy ridingex
Ride for sight, I like that! Good tip about constantly covering the brake and clutch AND good to know that helps with whiskey throttle, because that tree hug was definitely whiskey induced.😅 Thanks for your comment!
@FineLine-Media think it was a Chris Birch thing.. make your index fingers 👇 point like this...guns in holsters...every time you get on the bike your fingers 👉 should assume that position. I'll also help with keeping your elbows up which will make you smoother/faster over rough terrain
I like the honesty, and the big fact your saying your where in the wrong is pretty good personal trait. I am a motorcycle driver always wanted to diver offroad but never did, because i am to scared to damage my bike or make a realy big fall. Any tips?
Thanks man, appreciate it! As for tips: invest in protection, both personal and for your bike. For personal protection I'd recommend a good helmet (obviously), a full harness (chest, back, shoulders, kidney), elbow guards, knee braces and mx boots. For the bike I'd get at least a skid plate and some crash bars. It also helps to define your bike's weak points and protect those extra. For example: my CRF250L has a very exposed radiator, so I bought a radiator guard for some extra protection. Accept that you're going to fall more than once. It's usually at low speed and nothing scary. Oh, and never cut blind corners.😉 Enjoy!
@@FineLine-Media thanks for the tips
This applies to whatever you're doing. Biking, Hiking, off road unicycle. No amount of precaution can stop random things from blocking your path.
Even on bike only trails i've almost ran into hikers with dogs. stay safe but better yet stay lucky.
True, I ran into a drunk guy in a German bike park once. There’s a bar that’s popular place for bachelor parties at the top of the lift and this guy decided to stumble down a black rated downhill trail when it closed. Guy was standing on the edge of 2 meter drop, wondering how to get down.🤦♂️ Staying lucky is an important skill, definitely used some of it on this one.
That cliff you show at 6:20 looks insane, the drop at the outside of a corner and with that gravel, it looks so dangerous to me. I'd tip toe past a bit like, but to make it worse it's a blind corner, driving on the inside doesn't seem safe, driving on the edge of the cliff doesn't seem much better and I'd be scared of a car coming and pushing me off.
Yeah some of the cliffs were pretty scary. Beautiful area though!
Seems like you wound up there by instinct. During WW2 a story goes that an American general was looking through a group of privates and corporals to be a driver for his jeep on trips to the front line. He described a road just like you showed with a steep cliff on one side and rock face on the other.
Going through the line he asked one by one that when the artillery was coming down how close the edge could they go and how fast .
All bragged of skills they claimed they had trying to out do each other for the job. Frustrated, he reached the last private in the group and he said he would avoid the cliff and hug the wall. As the others laughed at him, the general asked why.
He said that whether or not the general was in the jeep he valued his life enough to not risk riding on the edge while being more at risk of getting hit by the shells or hit a shells hole and going off the cliff. That and the jeep would be too expensive to replace. The impressed general gave him that job😂.
Once had an encounter with a motor cyclist on a public road. He was on the wrong side of the road but so was I. My heart still stops thinking back on what could have gone wrong. It was more than 20 years ago, so do not worry: it could not have been you!
This is one of my biggest fears. I learned my lesson years ago when I almost avoided hitting a kid while mountain biking. It is also possible to hit a wild animal rather than a human. Especially where I live, there are many nightjars resting on middle of a dirt track at night and they fly towards the headlights of the vehicle.
Yeah, this was a huge wake up call for me too. I've been much more cautious in these scenario's ever since but you're right, wild animals will always remain tricky. I haven't come across nightjars but the deers over here sometimes pop up out of nowhere. Just happy there aren't any sharks along the trail, because that would be my biggest fear.😅 Thanks for watching!