As a person born in soviet union I was somewhat militant atheist in my views. I assumed that religion is a bunch of manipulative fairy tails, that it is against common sense, and prevents scientific progress. I could not understand how anyone can believe in such nonsense. However, after listening to Jordan Peterson, I feel I understand religion better, and I understand that it probably does have a lot of wisdom in it crystallized by many generations of our predecessors, so maybe it should not be easily dismissed.
xor760921 I'd recommend the Tao Te Ching. It's a religious text without the religion and basically a guide to help you understand yourself and the world.
Jordan Peterson, like Carl Jung, is deeply interested in building a bridge between religion and science, faith and reason. And there is a profound hunger for this in modern society. I know I'm hungry for it. Thanks for the engaging video.
There can only be one peak to the mountain, and He is, by definition, the Most High. But the heights of that mountain are covered with thick dark clouds, making it quite impossible to "define" the Infinite. Such are the mysteries of the one Triune God, who is in all, through all, and over all.
Peterson's views are interesting but once you understand his full scope it's as hollow as every other Theology. But hey at least he encourages thoughtful discussion on the topic.
I doubt any of us understand Peterson's full scope, as it is almost impossible to even understand oneself. As for theology seeming hollow, I have to admit there are times when it seems that way. Then there are other times when the contemplation of God is the most satisfying and fulfilling endeavor in the world. Read the Psalms some day; those ups and downs in the spiritual pursuit are nothing new.
NO, what people are hungering for is the LIE, the Great deception because they have no love of truth that comes from the Bible and Bible alone, "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2 Thessalonians 2:10) Not to say that I am dogmatic about not reading other books Biblical writers from all ages, but those are all viewed through the lens of the King James Bible in the english language as I would understand it through the doctrine that was once left for the saints. Jordan Peterson is not a Christian, as so far as I have heard him pronounce, so why listen to him on the Bible or doctrine? "I charge you therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick (the living) and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; *but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears*; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch you in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry." (2 Timothy 4:1-5) " And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie, That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thessalonians 2:11,12)
I've gone though most of his work and enjoyed it, keep watching and listening to him with that objective and critical eye that lead you away from faith.
I am iranian i was't even introduced to bible in my lifetime but i have watched maps of meaning and bible series and they were very eye opening for me Still i don't believe in god but now i can say i am not atheist too, i have learned about the role of religion by jordan peterson He is a great human
Haha, that made me smile. But I wouldn't say being a proud agnostic is a contradiction. Maybe "devout agnostic" or something like that. Agnostics can certainly be proud… they can be proud of their humility… (okay, now I'm speaking in contradictions). I mean that agnostics know that they don't know. And so, to claim anything is 'the ultimate truth' is, to them, a sort of arrogance. So to stay humbly 'unsure' feels like a noble stance. Something like that. :)
When I was 11 I became a diehard atheist. I was from a secular Chinese family, and my mom had the strange idea to send me to a Christian youth group. Mind, she wasn’t even Christian. I asked her why later in life and she just said, well, Christians are moral and happy people. I wanted that for you. I kept going for a few months then discovered Dawkins. The rest is history. I identify as agnostic now and it’s the diehard atheists who really grate me, especially as I see that a lot of atheists substitute the welfare state for God and try to create heaven on earth. It really just seems to me that there are no true atheists. Everyone worships something. And if it’s not God, it could easily be the state. I don’t worship the state. I definitely worship something; should probably figure that out actually. I even got into theology in college. Which is weird, because I still don’t think I believe in God but nowadays I spend most of my time defending Christianity whenever my friends make fun of Christians. JBP brought my appreciation to a whole new level though. I’m more impressed by the Christianity than I’ve ever been. Keep up the good work. I’m interested in hearing more about your thoughts on JBP. I just still... can’t believe I’m listening to a pastor on TH-cam haha. What a strange turn my life has taken.
I worship rationality. I do not mean to place a judgement on it and say that we all should or shouldn't do that. I just noticed the same thing you described that everyone worships something. People who put their trust in the state often worship equality as a fundamental value and that is how they maintain their sense of self worth and direction. My approach has its pitfalls but maybe that is true for every approach and its not like i could change it on a whim.
Tim Keller talks about this in his book The Reason For God. He states that atheism is essentially its own religion. Atheists have faith that God does not exist and believe this without the ability to prove it. It's a good book and worth a read. Tim Keller's sermons are also worth listening to as well. A lot of them are on youtube.
Those are cheap arguments. Atheism is not a belief system and the burden of proof is on the party who makes a positive claim. I'm tired of repeating this. Atheism does not have its own set of doctrines, doubters existed in all ages and all places. Obsession with rationality is not a prerequisite nor obsession with equality. Not believing in a particular religion frees you to combine your own set of values and views. Some of that still happens subconsciously from your local culture but that's just that. Theists attempting to put atheism in a box and describe the characteristic of it as a worldview is misguided at best. But when you flip something like the burden of proof and misuse it it becomes clear that you are more interested in persuasion by any means than the truth. The Wikipedia article on burden of proof (in philosophy) takes literally 2 minutes to read and makes it blatantly obvious why these dishonest word games dont work on logical thinkers. Jesus Christ is just as trivial of a proof as Muhammad or Buddha. You dont like the idea of proof and you are not interested in the idea of proof. You are interested in believing and persuading others to believe.
tothumn ... What? Are you addressing me? If you want to debate me seriously don’t take a couple of words from my post and construct a straw man around it. There ARE atheists who make a strong positive claim that there is no God and as such they are as subject to the burden of proof as any religious person. Strong atheism is the positive claim that there is no God. Dawkins is a strong atheist just having read his book “The God Delusion”, and he makes a comical argument for it. Weak atheism is similar to agnosticism, if they’re distinguishable at all. It is the position that we don’t believe in the positive claim that there is a god, yet we cannot say there is no god. Some agnostics even hold that it’s unknowable or unprovable. I’m one of those agnostics. We take a weak position. We make no positive assertions, only negative ones. And as for the religious behaviors of atheists, the way a lot of them treat the state or science sure reminds you of religion. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard people (not just atheists; a lot of theists as well) say, well, X is a cut and dried issue. You ask them what studies they’ve read, etc. Turns out they have read nothing. They hold this position because they think this is the scientific consensus. Or they’ve been told. Or they heard from their science teacher. That’s accepting things without proof. Some even says “Well, because SCIENCE says so.” That explains NOTHING. Also, science doesn’t say things. And when you look at the climate change debate, some people get ridiculously triggered if you even dare question the UN consensus. How dare you. They bring out they insults. “You must have been living under a rock”. “You must be a bible thumping idiot.” “You must have never gone to school.” You know what that’s like? I’ve seen religious people act like this when you have blasphemed. It’s unthinkable for the “establishment science”-worshipping atheists to question the “scientific” status quo. I’ve even seen them get dogmatic about whether or not Pluto is a planet. A lot of atheists also treat the state like a God. It’s not enough for the state to dispense justice. They have to be the cosmic kind of justice. They want the state to correct natural differences between people so the ugly and beautiful, the intelligent and the unintelligent, the rich and the poor, will have broadly equal outcomes in life. That’s playing God. “God” created those natural differences, which will generate inequality of outcome. Trying to undo “God” (or nature’s) work is essentially trying to become God. They want the state to create heaven on earth, where all the accidents of birth and upbringing are mitigated so all souls can finally be absolutely equal before the state (God?). They want the state to be a substitute for God. They want the state to regulate everything that’s imperfect. Religious people have a heaven. It’s in heaven. This is why I don’t see a lot of them clamoring for socialistic policies. Atheists don’t believe in a heaven, so a lot of them trying to create one. They basically want the state to become God and bring heaven (utopia) to the earth. There is a heavy correlation between atheism and leftism for this reason. Atheism is not a belief system, no. But in the absence of a religious system I see atheists give the trappings of a traditional religion to a thing of their choosing. It could be the state. It could be science. It could be humanistic philosophy, or philosophical cynicism, or the writings of Marcus Aurelius, etc. Even Jordan Peterson. Go to the JBP subreddit and you will see some fans take serious exception to anyone daring to criticize Jordan Peterson. To some people, he’s their Father figure with a capital F. He’s their Prophet. Don’t you dare criticize him. People do need a strong belief system. If you take away God they will substitute their own. The “religion” of an atheist is highly individual and will vary from atheist to atheist, but make no mistakes, they can and do display religious reverence to certain things.
Acts 8:30-31/ 30 So Philip ran up and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked. 31“How can I, he said, “unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. Peterson is making the Bible relevant to a modern audience in a way they can relate to that also puts social responsibility back on their shoulders as individuals. After decades of the Prosperity Gospel, this is like finding water in a desert.
I think the prosperity gospel is why so many Americans are outspoken against the social safety net, Welfare, immigration and Medicaid. They believe that those who are suffering, deserve their suffering. Think Protestant Work Ethic, too.
+John Stewart : Putting all of the blame on Protestants, western ones anyway, doesn't seem right, authentic, ... to me. Plenty of Catholics don't properly know the religion they're supposed to believe in. I'm catholic and often have difficulty with attending church, for there's too much mis-teaching. Etc. These are human institutions and not creations of God. They're formed and managed by humans; not God.
I agree. I was reading about how harsh St. Paul was about Judaism. It really impressed me that the Jews had the Garden of Eden story, and Christians had the Gospel story. Each religion was born in two different ways. Martin Luther's story -- the Reformation growing out of the Renaissance -- almost seems like a third version. The Protestants tore down their part of the church, and built it new. For instance, they say that Abraham was saved by his faith even before he became Jew through circumcision or before there was a law.
@@johnstewart7025 Or, they are concerned that social safety nets might not relieve suffering in the long term but rather keep people dependent and in desperate poverty, at the end of which the state will find itself euthanizing them, all in the name of compassion.
I was doing a job in 7 Hills Henderson Nevada. I saw a man that didn't fit with the people in the house. I questioned the woman of the house who said there had never been a man that fit the description of the man in the house. I watched him from about 8 feet away. We locked eyes for a few seconds then he turned and walked down a hallway. Three days later I was notified that my father had died 10 days earlier. The man I saw fit his description except for the clothing. My dad had been dead 7 days when I saw the man. Once I started to put things together I realized there was no hallway for the man to go down. I had watched my dad walk in to another existence. My dad was an atheist but had been raised JW. We argued every time we were together about religion. Human experience tells us that there is something else. We need to pay it more attention and I think Jordan Peterson is tapping in to that some how.
I'm a huge Jordan Peterson fan. I'm a young man raised in the United States. I was raised Catholic so I've always had Jesus in my life, but all the ritual and ceremony in Sunday mass was, frankly, boring to me. And that may be just how society is orienting young people these days, to find a typical Sunday service boring. I've seen the direction the country is going and I've always felt part of the reason for that was we started shutting God out of daily life, so I've been trying in earnest to connect with Jesus in my own way and if I wasn't going to church regularly, I'd at least try to read the Bible regularly. Let me tell you, after I discovered Jordan Peterson, initially through all the political stuff, and started viewing his lectures and really heard what he was saying, I feel like he has taken my effort to know Jesus and made it immeasurably stronger. His lectures in Maps of Meaning and Personality have a good framework towards leading a better life. But the Biblical lecture series is really something else. He's a really big fan of Jung, and takes Jung's approach to distill the meaning behind not just Christianity but belief systems throughout history. But the way he approaches the Biblical stories, getting to the meaning behind the stories and using modern neurophysiology to make a case why they're still important today, really resonates with me. I recently went to church again for the first time since I started watching Jordan Peterson's lectures, and it was like I finally had enough interest in what the priest was preaching to engage with it. I don't know if I would have eventually gotten to this place if I tried earnestly to attend church every Sunday and paid attention in Sunday school, but Jordan Peterson did it in a matter of months. It's truly amazing. He delivers the meaning in such an accessible way. That he's charismatic helps for sure, but it's not just the charisma or his deep understanding of the meaning behind the stories, it's that he knows how to deliver that meaning to a modern audience. Church rituals didn't appeal to me, getting together with other young people to sing and dance and celebrate Jesus in that way didn't appeal to me like it did for many Christians my age growing up, it was getting straight to the meaning that appealed to me, and how that meaning could be applied to leading a better life. And the way Jordan Peterson presents the meaning, you can take it or leave it with regards to the more transcendentally mystical aspects of God, you could even see God as an abstraction of the ultimate good (as Peterson has said in interviews before), but you can still appreciate the message and apply it to your life. For me, it means I can have faith in God as our Creator and Christ as our Redeemer, and also know how to live more like Jesus in today's world. Jordan Peterson has strengthened my faith, and that is truly remarkable.
GR0MIT The Dog that is what I understood also and it's why I decided to try reading the Bible on my own in the first place. I think you miss an important part of it if you study it in isolation though. The Bible is not just facts about life, I think you have to live it, to enact the meaning behind the stories to truly learn what they're about and why it's important. It is in that respect that a structure designed to facilitate the enacting of the meaning of the Bible, such as a Church, is valuable. So while the house of God is more in your heart than in a physical location, I think that still does not diminish the value of an actual physical location.
Roberto Sanchez I grew up Catholic, going to church every Sunday, even went myself occasionally while in college in the 80s. Now I’m 54 and Lutheran, have an awesome pastor, but still struggle to sit in Church on Sunday mornings. I have learned, though, that the reason for going to a church is that it manifests the body of Christ. All parts come together to make a whole. Also, especially for those without families or broken families, it is a link to other humans. We simply are not built to live alone. We are made to be social in some way or another. We are mentally, emotionally and physically healthier when we are connected with others deeply. Having said that, why didn’t I go to church yesterday. I don’t know, I do have a close and loving family, new grandchildren, and awesome co-workers, so I am certainly not alone. Dr. Peterson’s method of discussion absolutely fascinates me. I can watch him for hours without end.
Roberto Sanchez: the ritual and ceremony in Sunday mass was, frankly, boring to me. That's not the only problem it causes Roberto, because it actually obscures the simplicity of the true gospel message, i.e. hides the wood among the tree's. This is a true short story I wrote some time ago about an alcoholic I knew who used to go to the Catholic church... *Tommy's Tale* There used to be an Irish man in 50's called Tommy in town where I live. He was an alcoholic and would frequent the benches on the High Street with his bottles of strong cider at his side. He was shunned by most people, but I'd often stop and have a chat. I could sense that underneath his appearance and the stupor, that there was a really kind, but broken man. He was never violent or belligerent in drink, but used to act about to make people laugh, a kind of tragic figure doing the only thing he knew that would please people by cheering them up. Tommy would go to Mass at the Catholic church every day and the conversation sometimes turned to God and church. On one of the occasions that I asked him about his drink problem, he told me that he'd asked his priest for help and his response was, "Don't worry Tommy, everyone likes a drink." He took him to the bar at the back of the church and gave him a drink. Most of the church-goers gave him a wide berth and wanted little to do with him. Anyway, one night at about 9 o'clock, there was a knock at my door. I was surprised to see Tommy stood there, but what surprised me even more, was that he didn't seem drunk, which was unknown for that time of night. I asked him what I could do for him and he replied, " I need to ask you something". I wouldn't have invited him in if he'd been staggering drunk, but he wasn't, so I let him in. Before we'd even reached the living room, he started saying, "I love God, I go to mass every day, but there's something missing". He repeated this 3 or 4 times. Before answering, I silently asked God for guidance and my reply seemed to just tumble out. I said, "You love God, you know ABOUT Him, but you don't KNOW Him, you don't have a personal relationship with Him, you don't know Him as Father". He looked puzzled, so I took a tract from my bookshelf. It contained a simple gospel message with a diagram showing how the cross bridges the gap between sinful man and a holy God and explained how sin has caused this gap/separation and that Jesus died to pay the price for our sin so that we might be washed clean and united with God in a relationship as Him as Father. I told him that that's what was missing, a relationship with God as Father. I told him that it isn't about how good we are and what we do (good works), how often we go to church meetings etc... but about what Jesus did for us on the cross, that sets us free from the consequences of sin and restores us to the Father. His puzzled look turned into a stunned look and he said, "How come I've never seen this before?" Again I silently asked God for guidance. I took a sheet of A4 paper and tore it into strips. On the individual strips I wrote ~ virgin Mary ~ the saints ~ rosary beads ~ confession box ~ eucarist etc etc...... I then placed them on the gospel tract so that the gospel message I'd shown him beforehand was completely obscured and asked him if he could see it. He replied, "No, of course I can't" I then blew the pieces of paper away and asked if he could now see it and he replied that he could. I explained that the message had been there all the time, but that it had been obscured by the religious trappings and traditions of the Catholic church. I suddenly detected the need to remain silent for a while. The room was deathly silent and I looked across the room and just knew that my wife was praying in her heart. As I watched Tommy, I could see that something was afoot and suddenly, he just slid off the chair onto his knees and started sobbing. Through the tears he asked me what he needed to do. I replied, "Just repent (the tract had an explanation of repentance) and believe the gospel. Tommy said that he DID believe it and begged God for mercy, saying that he'd live the rest of his life for Him. Well, all three of us ended up kneeling, weeping and hugging. When Tommy finally got up, I swear that his face shone. We had a cup of tea and my wife and I shared some of the things that God had done in our lives. Tommy hung onto every word and for some reason I had to keep stopping him from trying to kiss my hand. It must have been a Catholic thing, although I'm not sure about that. I said that he didn't need to do that, that I hadn't really done anything, that it was God who had opened his spiritual eyes to the gospel, had given him the faith to believe it and had called him home. Tommy finally left, went home and died that night. It turned out that Tommy had a massive tumour in his stomach and secondary cancer in various other places. The drink had probably acted as an anaesthetic and he was totally unaware that he was so gravely ill, although he'd recently had expressed having trouble eating. His funeral was held in the Catholic church and my wife and I attended it. The Priest gave a talk about Tommy, how popular he was (a lie), how much they all loved him (a lie), how much they all cared for him (a lie) and tried to help him (a lie). It was all for the benefit of his family who were there. He said that Tommy was now safely in heaven. My wife and I looked at each other and both knew what the other was thinking, i.e. "He may be now, but no thanks to you." I felt so ANGRY at the display of false affection. I wanted to jump up and scream at the Priest, but held it together for the sake of Tommy's family.
Great post Roberto.. As a Catholic who was fortunate enough .. after wandering in the desert as long as I wanted... to study Thomist philosophers like Ed Feser the whole package came together. A transcendent God for instance.. could only reach us through symbol and lived revelation.. Christ's life where he took on ALL responsibility.. as Peterson recommends for a meaningful life. The intellectual foundation is wonderfully solid as you'll discover in philosophy.. Feser, Adler.. Good work Lobster!!
"God was a crazy and reprehensible representation of outdated moral behavior. He toyed with that one guy, telling him to sacrifice his son.." That was my view before Dr. Peterson. Now I see it as a story about the proper sacrifices to be made, in order to live the best life possible. God never wanted anyone to just kill their children.. It's a point about sacrificing that which is most dear to you, if that is what is required.
May I offer a different reading? Sometimes when some Christians read together we encourage not to moralise too much. I believe the bible is, in one sense, God's book about himself for us. So here we go: the story about Abraham and Isaac was to test - or demonstrate - Abraham's faith in God. Abraham had so much faith, he was willing to do the most awful thing immaginable. Why bother? God is the God of Israel, Isaac's son, and you can read how Abraham (and us), are NEVER justified with God due to our actions. We, and Abraham, ALWAYS fall short. Condemnation is at hand. The ONLY thing, in relation to God, that made Abraham blessed, was his faith. Romans 4 And the same is true for us. Noone comes to God except through faith in Jesus Christ, Son of God, risen from the dead. All of our sins paid for by the blood of Christ. And that is good news. God loved you, and I, so much, he sent his own Son to die in our place. Merry Christmas.
If pastors dont know about Jordan Peterson, they are missing out on an important movement. Many Anti theists are turning towards the light. Not necessarily God, but towards the Good.
I was an atheist from as long as i can remember, my family was completely American secular (thanksgiving, santa, easter bunny). The only religious family i had were the crazy family members who would get sucked into dogma, and dismiss reality. The government paid 70% of thier bills, and they popped out child after child. Always believing that the NEXT year was the year Jesus returns, and the year the World will End. Only because of Peterson over this last year, have I started to look at ancient stories as something besides just random fairytales.
An Atheist with an open mind towards Scripture? THANK YOU, MY MAN!! I needed that. Last one I talked to called me a child rapist. Keep going. Ask, seek, knock. Blessings upon blessings, my man...
Jixxy Trix I've come a long way in the last 2 years, im 33, if you go back and look at my comments from 3 or 4 or 10 years ago, and it would be just as vitriolic as what you describe. I've always loved myth, but i also had a prejudice toward believers, that gap is narrowing as i age, as i learn, and as i look inward.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of American pastors are partial literalists at best and fundamentalists at worst. It would be very difficult for a literalist to sit through a lecture when it is stated that the jesus myth is based on a conglomeration of older pagan ones. I personally think it’s paramount that the bible or Quran or any other holy book be studied like any other piece of literature, especially considering how old and how influential the stories are.
I am a Catholic priest and have been following Dr. Peterson for a while now. I even use some of his videos for the young men I work with at the local university.
Hi Paul, i'm extremely excited for your 'Significance of the significance of the biblical series'. You're the perfect person to be delving into JP's incites from a more religious perspective! Thank you for taking on this task! All the best, brother.
Thank you Pastor VanderKlay. I attend a CRC church in Midtown and I've met you in the past when you were visiting there. This is a great video and very welcoming to the crowd of folks who might be reconsidering their spiritual involvement in today's modern culture. I watch Peterson's videos as well mostly because I don't find his frankness evident in current dialogue between Christians...and I am as much of a contrarian as Dr. Peterson seems to be. Your contextual commentary is so relevant for a large contingent of Christians (e.g. "I believe, help me in my unbelief" crowd). Thank you again for doing this, I will be sure to watch your upcoming videos.
Lennert De Jaegher also, let peterson speak for longer so that you actually have more to dissect, when you stop him. :) Other than that, this could be interesting. I'll make sure to watch out for more.
Maybe because for those of us who understand Fandom, we can see all the same human faults that has made religion faulty. I don't believe the religious wars of past ages were what God wants, but were humans doing what humans do, and doing Bad Things in the name of religion. Shipping wars may only be fought with words, but they can be just as vicious as the Crusades.
I have had the same thought that you have. If anything, Jordan Peterson is bringing a lot of people to take a look at the Bible. Praising God for that! :) Thanks to you for dealing with this!
It's cool to see a pastor who likes JBP who is also using TH-cam the way it maybe should be used. One to one, facing the camera, in conversation. Thank you
Thanks for uploading this (I’m a couple of years late). I have been fascinated by his series and they’ve really shed a different light on seeing bible through different lenses . However I’ve really wanted comments from a Christian POV - so thank you !! 🙂
Great analysis Paul! Thanks for posting this. For the last few years I have been researching the topic of why Christian men, like myself, can no longer force themselves to attend church anymore. Now I find myself hanging on every word that Jordan Peterson says about the bible. Now I am also listening to every word that you say as well. I will pass your site information on to all my friends.
I’ve found myself engulfed as well in Peterson ‘s work and videos. I also can see why many would feel uncomfortable with some of his positions, particularly surrounding the resurrection, but with a degree of grace and respect it’s fascinating to see the way god is using his work. This thing I keep hearing about...people calling themselves “Christian Atheists,” so curious to me. Odd but for young men to find such worth in these stories is so heartening I’m very much looking forward to seeing where this will go and hopefully being a part of it somehow. Good videos keep them going.
Hi from France, big fan of Peterson. I had not heard of this Christan Atheist concept, but I could relate : I profoundly concur with doc Peterson about the Christian roots of our good civilization, but I do not relate to the ideao of there being a God-like intention at the origin of what is, and keeping an eye on stuff. I might change my mind some day... So far, quite happy to wallow around the Christian cultural and philosophical landscape with fresh and mesmerized curiosity. Also, dare I say, I think I'm a better person for it. Cheers to all that.
Great thoughts. I'm a pastor and TH-cam creator in a city just outside of Toronto, and have gotten a chance to see six of the lectures live. It's really fascinating that he's hit on a nerve with young people, especially many who would not call themselves Christian. I've subscribed and look forward to engaging more with another Christian pastor from another part of the continent.
Dr Peterson fascinates me too!👍🏻 I believe God is working through him and it's so cool.😎 Please make more videos. Thanks for the new vocabulary word! Prolegomena.👍🏻
I came across your video because I follow Jordan B Peterson and I learn so much from him and appreciate his intellect and integrity. I go to the Christian Reformed Church in Ingersoll Ontario Canada. Subscribed now to your channel and hope to view more of your videos.
I think both you Pastor VanderKlay and Dr. Peterson are doing a great service to Faith and intelligent discussions about God. Bless you! As an aerospace engineer and Catholic I have been praying someone smart and educated enough would come along and bridge this chasm between secularism, The New Atheists, and true essence of the Christ. I was hoping it would be a Jesuit though! LOL. But like yourself, I am just thrilled to see sane people discussing God, with no political agenda. And I agree with everything I have heard you say, and this Jordan Peterson phenomena, I agree is God working in a cynical and apathetic world. Peterson is so authentic as an orator and watching the transference between him and his audience at moments is tearjerking, you can even hear Peterson choke up a bit on certain occasions... Christianity has needed someone like him as well as more people like you and I might add Pope Francis, right now... for as John Kennedy Toole once said in his great book, "I suspect that we are teetering on the edge of the abyss.” ― John Kennedy Toole, A Confederacy of Dunces Thank you and Bless you! Looking forward to more of your insights! I wish Fr. Richard Rohr or Father Barron S.J. would step up to the plate and back this great gift Peterson has been given! Have a wonderful day! Mike Murphy
Jordan Peterson brought me back to God. I was a self-proclaimed Atheist with resentment against the Church and I am now a religious church go-er. This should speak more of Peterson's wisdom than my naivety/gullibility.
Good video. I'm a Catholic and not much inclined towards the protestant view of the bible or church historically or existentially, but I certainly share your enthusiasm for the good Dr Peterson.
Very good video, I'm glad you are doing something like this. I'm a reformed Christian as well. Very interested in the ideas of Peterson, and the Christian engagement thereof. I've found good help in Tremper Longman III on the topic of comparative mythology especially in Gen. 1-11.
Thanks to God's grace I had the opportunity to become almost totally atheist even if before I prepared to serve God as a priest (I had all my years just the consecration left). Thanks to that "blindness", being in the dark throat of horrid monster with bottomless stomach, I had a chance to rediscover the perfectness of this well elaborated world but by this time from bottom up through a materalist lenses. After the Lord revisited me (it was a real hierophany) and after that (or near to that) He also send me sign like a brightly shining star who examines things from starting the profane to ascend Heaven, he was Jordan B. Peterson. After these experiences I have to kneel down: what a great mystery the incarnation is!!! The Lord showed us the value of the mater and lifted up his own creation into his glory. I think Peterson's genius is that he starts for bottom up like as "story" has been started in Bethlehem from a manger through life and Crucifixion up to Heaven with us.
This one of the most amazing and profound comment streams I’ve ever seen. There truly is something happening here. It’s incredible to be a part of this time in history. It’s a revival. It’s wonderful.
I'm a young man who was raised in the church and I have been starving for wisdom for a long time. Now with William Lane Craig, Stefen C Meyer and Jordan B Peterson, I am developing a love for apologetics. I have real food, I have red meat.
Great stumbling on your channel. I have wanted to get a theologian's take on JBP's Biblical lectures for a while now. Looking forward to hear more. Thanks!
If you wish to hear other Christian theologians' comment on J Peterson, you might like to watch the following on TH-cam: th-cam.com/video/Bm3nVTF90mw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/W5iaERTETvE/w-d-xo.html
That would be fun. I don't know how much we would have to talk about right now. I'm still digging into his stuff and will have more once I really have a sense of what he's about, where he's coming from and where he's going.
When I read C.S. Lewis's commentaries on his own conversion, I see a striking resemblance between that and what I have heard a lot of people say about how Mr. Peterson has influenced them. I think its easy to see that we have the beginnings of some kind of revival here, lord knows we are overdue for one.
I agree that Peterson has done good work in elevating truth for God seekers. He is a honest about what he believes.I am using his stuff to reach my feet dragging boys.His stuff is great for the millenials.Nice insight about the utube medium.
I consider myself agnostic and always have, so for me its very useful to get a pastor's perspective. Definitely keep going with the videos. Looking forward to the next one on Nietzsche. I read Thus Spoke Zarathustra a couple of times and it was a fascinating story. I need to read some of his other work though.
I do appreciate your thoughs and I thank you pastor, I believe in the bible as most Christian's do or used to, I'm not sure which is which, but I believe God gave us the Word and is without error, so I like that the style of Jordan's tal, he is not coming from a finished thought but rather he takes us on a ride as he is deveopting thought, which sounds like rambling but at times you can see the foundational thoughts that are established and built upon to bring forth the narrative which keeps mutating, where all the thoughts are bringing forth truths that seem to be there, but are just one more thought away, which keeps you connected and engaged, and that some times that gives you the feeling that you have straddled chaos and order, and for brief moments of time, truth and meaning is revealed, you know what I mean. As a believer in Gods Word, Jordan's presentation is very interesting even though you may disagree with the idea that these stories were established over millions of years of evolution, you would be missing out on a lot of meaning and truths that come from the lectures
Pastor Vanderklay, I'm a 49 yr old heroin/meth addict who was in the ER for the 3rd time this yr due to an OD. I happened to listen to JBP on JRE while laying in my hospital bed dopesick, and that was a major factor in me enrolling in a methadone based treatment program in September 22, and staying clean with a couple of minor setbacks I was able to shrug off. That led me to finding your commentary on JBP and it reminded me about my curiosity/skepticism about a supernaturalist belief in the divine. I was raised in a fundamentalist church superficially, but never took it seriously. I would love to attend your church but alas I am in Los Angeles. I looked around and found a Calvary Chapel church in the LAX/Inglewood area not far from me. I wondered if you could take the time to advise me whether you have any suggestions for a congregation in or about LA or if in your view the Calvary Chapel churches teach a fundamentally 'correct' doctrine. I thank you for your time and attention.
Silvery Mountain Time Thank you for your pat on the back. It strengthens me as I clean my room, sort myself out, etc... and deal with the idea of a God.
Silvery Mountain Time, thanks - truly: I found a congregation in Hollywood and have started attending service and bible study. I'm just trying to do the things necessary to stay alive and then to worry about how to comport myself in the time I have left to me in this life. You're very kind to care, and I thank you again for the positive energy you are lending to my efforts. First do no harm, then see how you can help. That seems to me to be what you're doing and I appreciate it.
Thank you for this video. It has reinforced my belief that the new mediums of today (like TH-cam) can benefit the kingdom of God. I also have been looking for a Christian perspective on Jordan Peterson’s work.
You should link to the transliminal interviews. I find those to be the most comprehensive and concise introduction to his thinking (especially the first transliminal interview)
I wrote the author and asked about his terms. He asked that people no use his clips without talking to him first so I'm waiting for a response back. I think his interviews are some of the best. I would love to dive into them. :)
Dr. Peterson has sought to take people out of the materialistic world and beyond the machine age realms of matter and to help them plumb the depths of meaning. He has done this brilliantly and has gone way beyond most to put his finger on some of the real issues of life. As a psychologist he has been running up against the dysfunctions in humanity. He has diagnosed the problems of fallen man and done this beautifully. So now, by tragic necessity, he is being driven to address the virtues of life. But in doing so he has reached a threshold. He now realizes that there are still greater and more wonderful depths yet to be discovered. As a psychologist Dr. Peterson sees the sad dysfunctions of humanity every day. He is understandably exasperated that these social ills still prevail while heroic and good people in the West have made it the best place to live on the planet. In a sense he has come to the crossroads. Good decisions, diligence with the truth, discipline in personal life, all these virtues. We all want virtues in our society. But where is the wellspring of these much desired character traits? From whence come the graces that make our lives bearable? We can talk about these matters and the meaning of life all day and never achieve anything, unless, perhaps, we get help from outside of ourselves. It is repeat of “a tale of two cities”. Is Dr. Peterson going to take French pathway of humanistic rationalism? Voltaire championed the Age of Reason and a clockwork universe without personal meaning. God was asked by the French to take a hike. After that He was nowhere to be found. All that was left was a nation taken off to war by Napoleon, national disaster, and an existential emptiness that led to “No exit”, sensualism, and the “theater of the absurd.” So is Dr. Peterson going to take the way of the French? Or the way of the English speaking people with their awakenings? Will he take up his oratory on virtue, as did Robespierre, one of the rationalist Freemasonic orators of the godless French Revolution? Is he going to sell the seven steps to virtue forever, knowing that mankind without God cannot ever achieve character without a spirit to energize the psyche? And what happens if he makes a mis-step as he rides the wave of oratory and wipes out? What happens if he becomes exhausted and comes to the point of personal burnout? Will he be rejected or viewed as passe’ by the masses and the mobs in the streets? Will he be, (metaphorically speaking), sent to the guillotine, like Robespierre was when his oratory was given the thumbs down in the French Revolution? Dr. Peterson and the psychological profession adopt a rationalist objective approach to the pathology of human thinking, feelings, and behavior. They look scientifically and objectively at what things go wrong in relationships. This leads them to consider the virtues and the graces on the other side of the equation. Quite clearly Dr. Peterson is now surveying and measuring the rivers of life in God with the same diligence he surveyed the rivers of human dysfunction in the realms of the devil. So what is to be done with this data? How is he to proceed after doing this surveying of good and evil? Two rivers lie before him. He has investigated them exhaustively. So what now? Is he going to make up His mind which one he is going to dive into? Is it possible that he could do the radical thing and let go of his rationalistic objectivism? Only then would he be in a position to report his findings on the immersive existential experience in “the God who is there.” To do this he would have to let go of his Greek Aristotelian thinking. No longer would human reason and the sculpted. Image of “the thinker” be his ultimate god. No longer would humanism be the ultimate determinant of truth. To go up to the next level he would have to take that resolve to open the door. Whether they be brilliant souls or humble souls, people eventually come to the end of themselves. In the interim they struggle. Many end up in depression, existential emptiness, addictions, or sensual pursuits. Many try to find personal fulfillment by joining the herd of programmed robotic humanistic beings and throw themselves into the perceived virtue of “social justice”. There in an atmosphere of mutual glorification they can seek self-fulfillment in lofty perturbations of groupthink. Some level of self-fulfillment can be gained in identifying with these power groups. But as Dr. Peterson has amply demonstrated, behind many of the social justice warrior is the heady power politics of Socialism. Any socialism is a deadly way of thinking. Because it always falls short and it is always opposed and becomes bloody soon after it is politicized. International socialism, that grievous human folly, has killed upwards of 200 million people. And as Dr. Peterson points out, the tyranny of Communism began in the nice social justice discussions in the coffee shops of Paris. So is humanistic political groupthink the only viable gathering to be found? And does the political arena set the limits for conversation and for human devotion? Both national socialism and international communism are out there begging for souls. Both of them ended in disaster. Now we have Socialist justice warriors stirring up the masses to cause further waves of grief. What else is there? There is another choice. People can, and do, give themselves over to the personal real-time Living Logos, of John chapter 1. They surrender their lives to the despised Judeo-Christian God of the West, the God of the people of realms what were once called Western Christendom. That is always a radical thing to do. But it leads to a serendipity. Human souls cry out in their time of need. At the very same time Someone is knocking at the door from the next dimension. Someone, should we let him in, can take us beyond ourselves. Is there a Someone in whom we can realize virtue personally, even show us and immerse us in the eternal rivers of life? Is it possible that Dr. Peterson could take the baton from C.S. Lewis and go beyond? Could he, by God’s grace, break out into another role to take a grateful people beyond the current metaphysical oriental stalemate of the ying and the yang? Could his orations on virtue go beyond the mere generic wish-list of virtues to deliver within us the spiritual empowerment that makes these virtues a reality? How the West needs a trailblazer who can help lead fallen man out of the swamps of psychological despair. Is there not a highway that leads upwards to greater glories? Do we not need faithful trailblazers to lead us into a genuine vital and truthful psychology? Might there be resource in the God of the West who beckons to us from the next dimension, even from an eternal realm beyond our self-life? See EndTimePilgrim.org/puritans12.htm
One of the take-away lessons for me after listening to peterson is that one should delve as deep as possible and from every possible angle into questions surrounding one's own beliefs, all and any beliefs, before throwing them or continuing to live with them...esp now when world is so much smaller...and one should always be open to learn something new (anew?afresh?) The same objectivity in a talk cannot be received from a church affiliate without some sort of a perceived bias, I'm thinking. I am grateful to all of u for your years of study and profound insight and for taking a most important issue such as our beliefs seriously
Yes, sorry but I might repeat what others might have already pointed out, the technical problem with the audio when JP clips where played back. I think is feedback from the speakers to the microphone of PV.
Thanks for making these commentaries, Paul. I've been interested as to how Peterson's lectures are being 'taken' by the Christian community broadly. I know in one of them he says that he might be Christianity's best advocate or worst enemy, to a few laughs :) As if he's damning with faint praise, or something like that! XD Of course, I think his lectures are very high praise, and the success of them prove that there is a surprising hunger in secular people to make sense of the Bible (without being told you must take it literally in order to get value from it). What do you think about that? Is there a danger in finding value in the Bible as a collection of insightful myths? Does it devalue it, or "remove pressure" in a way, to truly convert?
I didn't watch much of his Bible series yet, but I've seen him talking about it in other shows and watched plenty of lectures where he explains archetypes and meta-truths. He convinced me that he is onto something but I do not feel more pressure to convert to Christianity than to ancient Egyptian religion or any other. I claim this regarding their divinity status but otherwise I do not want to draw a false equivalency, Christianity is the most relevant to the modern west. I'd say I've become more conscious about the importance of stories. I can fit it reasonably well with my materialist worldview but I wonder if religious people feel the same.
I remember Peterson saying that in no way he wants to reduce them to mere myths, and “good advice “, but that he’s simply analyzing them from a PSYCHOLOGICAL standpoint since that is his field of expert. There are plenty of different ways to anylyze them , historically, theologically, philosophically etc....
James Mathison if you care at all what a random guy on the internet thinks... I think God has arranged history in such a way as to teach us lessons, those lessons are deeply embedded inside the stories God had collected together in the Bible. He is called the author and the rabbi ( teacher). Jesus even instructed his disciples through parables. The lessons and values are there to be observed, wether you believe or not doesn't change the significance of the information. I don't think studying or abiding by the Bible is ever a bad thing.
Cole Dansie You're not some random guy. Your avatar is Rick Sanchez! You're my boi! ;) And I think you're spot on. The information is there regardless of belief in the factualness. And if it really were arranged by God, wouldn't that be the case? Wouldn't it work on every level? I think your perspective on this holds the key to bridging the gap between the religious and the secular. And in doing so, saving our valuable culture from disintegration. (Not to be too melodramatic!)
Thank you! Im an atheist but nevertheless I've been intensely inspired and empowered by Peterson and he has helped me sort myself out and take responsibility for my own life.
I've considered my self a hardline atheist with a very Dawkins like attitude towards organized religion. However, after watching Petersons biblical series I would consider myself more along along the lines of an agnostic that believes in the fundimntal principals of the Bible.
You'd be surprised what grips people, the religious and non-religious alike. I've watched 100's of hours of Dr. Peterson, I've seen one of his lectures in person, and I've read his book. I've watched most of his biblical lectures 3 or even more times a piece. The one on Adam and Eve is one of my favorites. If you haven't seen it, I recommend his sit down with Ben Shapiro on Ben's Sunday Special show. Peterson was guest number one. He really digs deep into the underlying reasons in that short video. I'm extremely glad pastor's are taking interest in Doc JBP. I think if more preachers would add some of these concepts in their sermons, people may feel more understanding about and a curiousity towards their religion. I know just about every sermon I've listened to was quite shallow, and yes, too darn preachy. Thanks for spreading the word!
One of Christianity's biggest challenge is separating what is in the Bible from evil that has been done by humans, purporting to be doing God's work. It's a massive stumbling block for unbelievers.
Thank you. Professor Peterson often touches on things that are so far outside the bounds of my education and, likely, intelligence, that I feel I need someone else to help me digest it. Which, oddly, is all he's really doing in the first place :)
Thank you Paul VanderKlay! I think you are right, there is some sort of 'revival' going on, I call it a 'renaissance', but it's the same thing, it's about re-newing our commitment to something and then discovering that the 'something' wants to renew _it's_ commitment to _us_ too, through an entirely new medium. I think you are embarking on an important and valuable work here and I wish you all the very best with it. Village Platinum Productions (below) suggests a way to fix the audio problem on this video, (I wouldn't know) but I am definitely looking forward to seeing more from you. Thanks again. *Liked* and *Subscribed*
interesting channel. my thoughts on the public interest in the series is that he contextualizes the stories of the bible in a way that doesnt require the leap of faith. Those scientifically inclined can then absorb it without having to derail theyre own worldview.
You seem pastorly enough, and I want to expand on the conversation that Dr. Peterson has started. So, I'll be dropping by to see where this goes. Work on your formatting and approach, this might be good.
Interesting presentation. The quality of your part is excellent but the tape of Peterson needs work on audio, I can barely understand what he is saying as well as echo, as some others have mentioned. May I suggest you play a longer segment first then come back and replay with commentary. I like it so far, though.
As a person born in soviet union I was somewhat militant atheist in my views. I assumed that religion is a bunch of manipulative fairy tails, that it is against common sense, and prevents scientific progress. I could not understand how anyone can believe in such nonsense. However, after listening to Jordan Peterson, I feel I understand religion better, and I understand that it probably does have a lot of wisdom in it crystallized by many generations of our predecessors, so maybe it should not be easily dismissed.
Species evolve by doing what is good for the species survival. Spirituality(in whatever form you choose) is no mistake.
xor760921 I'd recommend the Tao Te Ching. It's a religious text without the religion and basically a guide to help you understand yourself and the world.
I'm enamored with "the Russian soul". Tolstoy and Dosteyevsky's writings make some of the best cases for belief.
I'll stick to another set of useful myths, the Edda ... by Thor
xor760921 you realise how much you need religion,otherwise life is meaningless.
Jordan Peterson, like Carl Jung, is deeply interested in building a bridge between religion and science, faith and reason. And there is a profound hunger for this in modern society. I know I'm hungry for it. Thanks for the engaging video.
Karl Kohlhase still a monotheist tho
There can only be one peak to the mountain, and He is, by definition, the Most High. But the heights of that mountain are covered with thick dark clouds, making it quite impossible to "define" the Infinite. Such are the mysteries of the one Triune God, who is in all, through all, and over all.
Peterson's views are interesting but once you understand his full scope it's as hollow as every other Theology. But hey at least he encourages thoughtful discussion on the topic.
I doubt any of us understand Peterson's full scope, as it is almost impossible to even understand oneself. As for theology seeming hollow, I have to admit there are times when it seems that way. Then there are other times when the contemplation of God is the most satisfying and fulfilling endeavor in the world. Read the Psalms some day; those ups and downs in the spiritual pursuit are nothing new.
NO, what people are hungering for is the LIE, the Great deception because they have no love of truth that comes from the Bible and Bible alone, "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2 Thessalonians 2:10) Not to say that I am dogmatic about not reading other books Biblical writers from all ages, but those are all viewed through the lens of the King James Bible in the english language as I would understand it through the doctrine that was once left for the saints.
Jordan Peterson is not a Christian, as so far as I have heard him pronounce, so why listen to him on the Bible or doctrine?
"I charge you therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick (the living) and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; *but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears*; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch you in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry." (2 Timothy 4:1-5)
" And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie, That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thessalonians 2:11,12)
I dismissed The Bible decades ago after being raised as a Baptist but Dr. Peterson has awakened interest about it in me, a HUGE Peterson fan.
I've gone though most of his work and enjoyed it, keep watching and listening to him with that objective and critical eye that lead you away from faith.
Same Here. Peterson transformed my life helped me take responsibility for myself
th-cam.com/video/jj2bm5-PMAI/w-d-xo.html
This is where it all started! TH-cam just recommended me this video after watching PVK for a solid year
I am iranian i was't even introduced to bible in my lifetime but i have watched maps of meaning and bible series and they were very eye opening for me
Still i don't believe in god but now i can say i am not atheist too, i have learned about the role of religion by jordan peterson
He is a great human
I have been a proud agnostic for all my life, but now at 55, through Jordan Peterson I feel myself moving closer and closer to becoming a christian.
How exactly can someone be a proud agnostic? That's like being a patriotic nomad.
Haha, that made me smile. But I wouldn't say being a proud agnostic is a contradiction. Maybe "devout agnostic" or something like that.
Agnostics can certainly be proud… they can be proud of their humility… (okay, now I'm speaking in contradictions).
I mean that agnostics know that they don't know. And so, to claim anything is 'the ultimate truth' is, to them, a sort of arrogance. So to stay humbly 'unsure' feels like a noble stance. Something like that. :)
I was proud because my mind was open to new possibilities.
Why specifically Christianity? The logos is the same in all 3 western religions
That might be fine, but I would ask what your objective standard is for determining which version of Christianity is correct?
When I was 11 I became a diehard atheist. I was from a secular Chinese family, and my mom had the strange idea to send me to a Christian youth group. Mind, she wasn’t even Christian. I asked her why later in life and she just said, well, Christians are moral and happy people. I wanted that for you. I kept going for a few months then discovered Dawkins. The rest is history.
I identify as agnostic now and it’s the diehard atheists who really grate me, especially as I see that a lot of atheists substitute the welfare state for God and try to create heaven on earth. It really just seems to me that there are no true atheists. Everyone worships something. And if it’s not God, it could easily be the state. I don’t worship the state. I definitely worship something; should probably figure that out actually. I even got into theology in college. Which is weird, because I still don’t think I believe in God but nowadays I spend most of my time defending Christianity whenever my friends make fun of Christians. JBP brought my appreciation to a whole new level though. I’m more impressed by the Christianity than I’ve ever been.
Keep up the good work. I’m interested in hearing more about your thoughts on JBP. I just still... can’t believe I’m listening to a pastor on TH-cam haha. What a strange turn my life has taken.
I worship rationality. I do not mean to place a judgement on it and say that we all should or shouldn't do that. I just noticed the same thing you described that everyone worships something. People who put their trust in the state often worship equality as a fundamental value and that is how they maintain their sense of self worth and direction. My approach has its pitfalls but maybe that is true for every approach and its not like i could change it on a whim.
Tim Keller talks about this in his book The Reason For God. He states that atheism is essentially its own religion. Atheists have faith that God does not exist and believe this without the ability to prove it. It's a good book and worth a read. Tim Keller's sermons are also worth listening to as well. A lot of them are on youtube.
The Proof Is Trivial
Jesus Christ. Take it as you like.
Those are cheap arguments. Atheism is not a belief system and the burden of proof is on the party who makes a positive claim. I'm tired of repeating this.
Atheism does not have its own set of doctrines, doubters existed in all ages and all places. Obsession with rationality is not a prerequisite nor obsession with equality. Not believing in a particular religion frees you to combine your own set of values and views. Some of that still happens subconsciously from your local culture but that's just that.
Theists attempting to put atheism in a box and describe the characteristic of it as a worldview is misguided at best. But when you flip something like the burden of proof and misuse it it becomes clear that you are more interested in persuasion by any means than the truth.
The Wikipedia article on burden of proof (in philosophy) takes literally 2 minutes to read and makes it blatantly obvious why these dishonest word games dont work on logical thinkers.
Jesus Christ is just as trivial of a proof as Muhammad or Buddha.
You dont like the idea of proof and you are not interested in the idea of proof. You are interested in believing and persuading others to believe.
tothumn ... What? Are you addressing me? If you want to debate me seriously don’t take a couple of words from my post and construct a straw man around it. There ARE atheists who make a strong positive claim that there is no God and as such they are as subject to the burden of proof as any religious person. Strong atheism is the positive claim that there is no God. Dawkins is a strong atheist just having read his book “The God Delusion”, and he makes a comical argument for it. Weak atheism is similar to agnosticism, if they’re distinguishable at all. It is the position that we don’t believe in the positive claim that there is a god, yet we cannot say there is no god. Some agnostics even hold that it’s unknowable or unprovable. I’m one of those agnostics. We take a weak position. We make no positive assertions, only negative ones.
And as for the religious behaviors of atheists, the way a lot of them treat the state or science sure reminds you of religion. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard people (not just atheists; a lot of theists as well) say, well, X is a cut and dried issue. You ask them what studies they’ve read, etc. Turns out they have read nothing. They hold this position because they think this is the scientific consensus. Or they’ve been told. Or they heard from their science teacher. That’s accepting things without proof. Some even says “Well, because SCIENCE says so.” That explains NOTHING. Also, science doesn’t say things. And when you look at the climate change debate, some people get ridiculously triggered if you even dare question the UN consensus. How dare you. They bring out they insults. “You must have been living under a rock”. “You must be a bible thumping idiot.” “You must have never gone to school.” You know what that’s like? I’ve seen religious people act like this when you have blasphemed. It’s unthinkable for the “establishment science”-worshipping atheists to question the “scientific” status quo. I’ve even seen them get dogmatic about whether or not Pluto is a planet.
A lot of atheists also treat the state like a God. It’s not enough for the state to dispense justice. They have to be the cosmic kind of justice. They want the state to correct natural differences between people so the ugly and beautiful, the intelligent and the unintelligent, the rich and the poor, will have broadly equal outcomes in life. That’s playing God. “God” created those natural differences, which will generate inequality of outcome. Trying to undo “God” (or nature’s) work is essentially trying to become God. They want the state to create heaven on earth, where all the accidents of birth and upbringing are mitigated so all souls can finally be absolutely equal before the state (God?). They want the state to be a substitute for God. They want the state to regulate everything that’s imperfect. Religious people have a heaven. It’s in heaven. This is why I don’t see a lot of them clamoring for socialistic policies. Atheists don’t believe in a heaven, so a lot of them trying to create one. They basically want the state to become God and bring heaven (utopia) to the earth. There is a heavy correlation between atheism and leftism for this reason.
Atheism is not a belief system, no. But in the absence of a religious system I see atheists give the trappings of a traditional religion to a thing of their choosing. It could be the state. It could be science. It could be humanistic philosophy, or philosophical cynicism, or the writings of Marcus Aurelius, etc. Even Jordan Peterson. Go to the JBP subreddit and you will see some fans take serious exception to anyone daring to criticize Jordan Peterson. To some people, he’s their Father figure with a capital F. He’s their Prophet. Don’t you dare criticize him. People do need a strong belief system. If you take away God they will substitute their own. The “religion” of an atheist is highly individual and will vary from atheist to atheist, but make no mistakes, they can and do display religious reverence to certain things.
Acts 8:30-31/ 30 So Philip ran up and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked. 31“How can I, he said, “unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
Peterson is making the Bible relevant to a modern audience in a way they can relate to that also puts social responsibility back on their shoulders as individuals. After decades of the Prosperity Gospel, this is like finding water in a desert.
I think the prosperity gospel is why so many Americans are outspoken against the social safety net, Welfare, immigration and Medicaid. They believe that those who are suffering, deserve their suffering. Think Protestant Work Ethic, too.
+John Stewart : Putting all of the blame on Protestants, western ones anyway, doesn't seem right, authentic, ... to me. Plenty of Catholics don't properly know the religion they're supposed to believe in. I'm catholic and often have difficulty with attending church, for there's too much mis-teaching. Etc. These are human institutions and not creations of God. They're formed and managed by humans; not God.
I agree. I was reading about how harsh St. Paul was about Judaism. It really impressed me that the Jews had the Garden of Eden story, and Christians had the Gospel story. Each religion was born in two different ways. Martin Luther's story -- the Reformation growing out of the Renaissance -- almost seems like a third version. The Protestants tore down their part of the church, and built it new. For instance, they say that Abraham was saved by his faith even before he became Jew through circumcision or before there was a law.
@@johnstewart7025 Or, they are concerned that social safety nets might not relieve suffering in the long term but rather keep people dependent and in desperate poverty, at the end of which the state will find itself euthanizing them, all in the name of compassion.
J. Peterson is showing how truly hungry people are for a knowledge of God.
all human beings deep down have a longing for God, nostalgia for our true home
I was doing a job in 7 Hills Henderson Nevada. I saw a man that didn't fit with the people in the house. I questioned the woman of the house who said there had never been a man that fit the description of the man in the house. I watched him from about 8 feet away. We locked eyes for a few seconds then he turned and walked down a hallway. Three days later I was notified that my father had died 10 days earlier. The man I saw fit his description except for the clothing. My dad had been dead 7 days when I saw the man. Once I started to put things together I realized there was no hallway for the man to go down. I had watched my dad walk in to another existence. My dad was an atheist but had been raised JW. We argued every time we were together about religion. Human experience tells us that there is something else. We need to pay it more attention and I think Jordan Peterson is tapping in to that some how.
Christianity was used by Charles the hammer Martel to motivate the people to fight back against the cruelty of Islam and push it out of Europe.
I'm a huge Jordan Peterson fan. I'm a young man raised in the United States. I was raised Catholic so I've always had Jesus in my life, but all the ritual and ceremony in Sunday mass was, frankly, boring to me. And that may be just how society is orienting young people these days, to find a typical Sunday service boring.
I've seen the direction the country is going and I've always felt part of the reason for that was we started shutting God out of daily life, so I've been trying in earnest to connect with Jesus in my own way and if I wasn't going to church regularly, I'd at least try to read the Bible regularly. Let me tell you, after I discovered Jordan Peterson, initially through all the political stuff, and started viewing his lectures and really heard what he was saying, I feel like he has taken my effort to know Jesus and made it immeasurably stronger.
His lectures in Maps of Meaning and Personality have a good framework towards leading a better life. But the Biblical lecture series is really something else. He's a really big fan of Jung, and takes Jung's approach to distill the meaning behind not just Christianity but belief systems throughout history. But the way he approaches the Biblical stories, getting to the meaning behind the stories and using modern neurophysiology to make a case why they're still important today, really resonates with me.
I recently went to church again for the first time since I started watching Jordan Peterson's lectures, and it was like I finally had enough interest in what the priest was preaching to engage with it. I don't know if I would have eventually gotten to this place if I tried earnestly to attend church every Sunday and paid attention in Sunday school, but Jordan Peterson did it in a matter of months. It's truly amazing.
He delivers the meaning in such an accessible way. That he's charismatic helps for sure, but it's not just the charisma or his deep understanding of the meaning behind the stories, it's that he knows how to deliver that meaning to a modern audience. Church rituals didn't appeal to me, getting together with other young people to sing and dance and celebrate Jesus in that way didn't appeal to me like it did for many Christians my age growing up, it was getting straight to the meaning that appealed to me, and how that meaning could be applied to leading a better life. And the way Jordan Peterson presents the meaning, you can take it or leave it with regards to the more transcendentally mystical aspects of God, you could even see God as an abstraction of the ultimate good (as Peterson has said in interviews before), but you can still appreciate the message and apply it to your life. For me, it means I can have faith in God as our Creator and Christ as our Redeemer, and also know how to live more like Jesus in today's world. Jordan Peterson has strengthened my faith, and that is truly remarkable.
GR0MIT The Dog that is what I understood also and it's why I decided to try reading the Bible on my own in the first place. I think you miss an important part of it if you study it in isolation though. The Bible is not just facts about life, I think you have to live it, to enact the meaning behind the stories to truly learn what they're about and why it's important. It is in that respect that a structure designed to facilitate the enacting of the meaning of the Bible, such as a Church, is valuable. So while the house of God is more in your heart than in a physical location, I think that still does not diminish the value of an actual physical location.
Roberto Sanchez I grew up Catholic, going to church every Sunday, even went myself occasionally while in college in the 80s. Now I’m 54 and Lutheran, have an awesome pastor, but still struggle to sit in Church on Sunday mornings. I have learned, though, that the reason for going to a church is that it manifests the body of Christ. All parts come together to make a whole. Also, especially for those without families or broken families, it is a link to other humans. We simply are not built to live alone. We are made to be social in some way or another. We are mentally, emotionally and physically healthier when we are connected with others deeply. Having said that, why didn’t I go to church yesterday. I don’t know, I do have a close and loving family, new grandchildren, and awesome co-workers, so I am certainly not alone. Dr. Peterson’s method of discussion absolutely fascinates me. I can watch him for hours without end.
Roberto Sanchez - couldn't have said it better :)
Roberto Sanchez: the ritual and ceremony in Sunday mass was, frankly, boring to me.
That's not the only problem it causes Roberto, because it actually obscures the simplicity of the true gospel message, i.e. hides the wood among the tree's. This is a true short story I wrote some time ago about an alcoholic I knew who used to go to the Catholic church...
*Tommy's Tale*
There used to be an Irish man in 50's called Tommy in town where I live. He was an alcoholic and would frequent the benches on the High Street with his bottles of strong cider at his side. He was shunned by most people, but I'd often stop and have a chat. I could sense that underneath his appearance and the stupor, that there was a really kind, but broken man. He was never violent or belligerent in drink, but used to act about to make people laugh, a kind of tragic figure doing the only thing he knew that would please people by cheering them up.
Tommy would go to Mass at the Catholic church every day and the conversation sometimes turned to God and church. On one of the occasions that I asked him about his drink problem, he told me that he'd asked his priest for help and his response was, "Don't worry Tommy, everyone likes a drink." He took him to the bar at the back of the church and gave him a drink. Most of the church-goers gave him a wide berth and wanted little to do with him.
Anyway, one night at about 9 o'clock, there was a knock at my door. I was surprised to see Tommy stood there, but what surprised me even more, was that he didn't seem drunk, which was unknown for that time of night. I asked him what I could do for him and he replied, " I need to ask you something".
I wouldn't have invited him in if he'd been staggering drunk, but he wasn't, so I let him in. Before we'd even reached the living room, he started saying, "I love God, I go to mass every day, but there's something missing".
He repeated this 3 or 4 times. Before answering, I silently asked God for guidance and my reply seemed to just tumble out. I said, "You love God, you know ABOUT Him, but you don't KNOW Him, you don't have a personal relationship with Him, you don't know Him as Father".
He looked puzzled, so I took a tract from my bookshelf. It contained a simple gospel message with a diagram showing how the cross bridges the gap between sinful man and a holy God and explained how sin has caused this gap/separation and that Jesus died to pay the price for our sin so that we might be washed clean and united with God in a relationship as Him as Father. I told him that that's what was missing, a relationship with God as Father. I told him that it isn't about how good we are and what we do (good works), how often we go to church meetings etc... but about what Jesus did for us on the cross, that sets us free from the consequences of sin and restores us to the Father.
His puzzled look turned into a stunned look and he said, "How come I've never seen this before?" Again I silently asked God for guidance.
I took a sheet of A4 paper and tore it into strips. On the individual strips I wrote ~ virgin Mary ~ the saints ~ rosary beads ~ confession box ~ eucarist etc etc...... I then placed them on the gospel tract so that the gospel message I'd shown him beforehand was completely obscured and asked him if he could see it.
He replied, "No, of course I can't"
I then blew the pieces of paper away and asked if he could now see it and he replied that he could. I explained that the message had been there all the time, but that it had been obscured by the religious trappings and traditions of the Catholic church.
I suddenly detected the need to remain silent for a while. The room was deathly silent and I looked across the room and just knew that my wife was praying in her heart. As I watched Tommy, I could see that something was afoot and suddenly, he just slid off the chair onto his knees and started sobbing. Through the tears he asked me what he needed to do. I replied, "Just repent (the tract had an explanation of repentance) and believe the gospel. Tommy said that he DID believe it and begged God for mercy, saying that he'd live the rest of his life for Him. Well, all three of us ended up kneeling, weeping and hugging. When Tommy finally got up, I swear that his face shone.
We had a cup of tea and my wife and I shared some of the things that God had done in our lives. Tommy hung onto every word and for some reason I had to keep stopping him from trying to kiss my hand. It must have been a Catholic thing, although I'm not sure about that. I said that he didn't need to do that, that I hadn't really done anything, that it was God who had opened his spiritual eyes to the gospel, had given him the faith to believe it and had called him home.
Tommy finally left, went home and died that night.
It turned out that Tommy had a massive tumour in his stomach and secondary cancer in various other places. The drink had probably acted as an anaesthetic and he was totally unaware that he was so gravely ill, although he'd recently had expressed having trouble eating.
His funeral was held in the Catholic church and my wife and I attended it. The Priest gave a talk about Tommy, how popular he was (a lie), how much they all loved him (a lie), how much they all cared for him (a lie) and tried to help him (a lie). It was all for the benefit of his family who were there. He said that Tommy was now safely in heaven. My wife and I looked at each other and both knew what the other was thinking, i.e. "He may be now, but no thanks to you." I felt so ANGRY at the display of false affection. I wanted to jump up and scream at the Priest, but held it together for the sake of Tommy's family.
Great post Roberto.. As a Catholic who was fortunate enough .. after wandering in the desert as long as I wanted... to study Thomist philosophers like Ed Feser the whole package came together. A transcendent God for instance.. could only reach us through symbol and lived revelation.. Christ's life where he took on ALL responsibility.. as Peterson recommends for a meaningful life. The intellectual foundation is wonderfully solid as you'll discover in philosophy.. Feser, Adler.. Good work Lobster!!
"God was a crazy and reprehensible representation of outdated moral behavior. He toyed with that one guy, telling him to sacrifice his son.."
That was my view before Dr. Peterson.
Now I see it as a story about the proper sacrifices to be made, in order to live the best life possible. God never wanted anyone to just kill their children.. It's a point about sacrificing that which is most dear to you, if that is what is required.
May I offer a different reading? Sometimes when some Christians read together we encourage not to moralise too much. I believe the bible is, in one sense, God's book about himself for us.
So here we go: the story about Abraham and Isaac was to test - or demonstrate - Abraham's faith in God. Abraham had so much faith, he was willing to do the most awful thing immaginable.
Why bother?
God is the God of Israel, Isaac's son, and you can read how Abraham (and us), are NEVER justified with God due to our actions. We, and Abraham, ALWAYS fall short. Condemnation is at hand.
The ONLY thing, in relation to God, that made Abraham blessed, was his faith. Romans 4
And the same is true for us. Noone comes to God except through faith in Jesus Christ, Son of God, risen from the dead. All of our sins paid for by the blood of Christ. And that is good news.
God loved you, and I, so much, he sent his own Son to die in our place.
Merry Christmas.
If pastors dont know about Jordan Peterson, they are missing out on an important movement. Many Anti theists are turning towards the light. Not necessarily God, but towards the Good.
I was an atheist from as long as i can remember, my family was completely American secular (thanksgiving, santa, easter bunny).
The only religious family i had were the crazy family members who would get sucked into dogma, and dismiss reality. The government paid 70% of thier bills, and they popped out child after child. Always believing that the NEXT year was the year Jesus returns, and the year the World will End.
Only because of Peterson over this last year, have I started to look at ancient stories as something besides just random fairytales.
An Atheist with an open mind towards Scripture?
THANK YOU, MY MAN!! I needed that.
Last one I talked to called me a child rapist.
Keep going. Ask, seek, knock.
Blessings upon blessings, my man...
Jixxy Trix I've come a long way in the last 2 years, im 33, if you go back and look at my comments from 3 or 4 or 10 years ago, and it would be just as vitriolic as what you describe. I've always loved myth, but i also had a prejudice toward believers, that gap is narrowing as i age, as i learn, and as i look inward.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of American pastors are partial literalists at best and fundamentalists at worst. It would be very difficult for a literalist to sit through a lecture when it is stated that the jesus myth is based on a conglomeration of older pagan ones. I personally think it’s paramount that the bible or Quran or any other holy book be studied like any other piece of literature, especially considering how old and how influential the stories are.
I am a Catholic priest and have been following Dr. Peterson for a while now. I even use some of his videos for the young men I work with at the local university.
Peterson's talks have changed my life in amazing ways! I can't get enough of his insight!
Hi Paul, i'm extremely excited for your 'Significance of the significance of the biblical series'. You're the perfect person to be delving into JP's incites from a more religious perspective! Thank you for taking on this task! All the best, brother.
I think it would be cool if you interviewed him. I'm sure he would do it.
SURREY CROSSING I didn't say he does. I was just saying he does a lot of interviews.
Thank you Pastor VanderKlay. I attend a CRC church in Midtown and I've met you in the past when you were visiting there. This is a great video and very welcoming to the crowd of folks who might be reconsidering their spiritual involvement in today's modern culture. I watch Peterson's videos as well mostly because I don't find his frankness evident in current dialogue between Christians...and I am as much of a contrarian as Dr. Peterson seems to be. Your contextual commentary is so relevant for a large contingent of Christians (e.g. "I believe, help me in my unbelief" crowd). Thank you again for doing this, I will be sure to watch your upcoming videos.
I think you should put on some headphones or buds, so you can avoid the echo
Lennert De Jaegher also, let peterson speak for longer so that you actually have more to dissect, when you stop him. :)
Other than that, this could be interesting. I'll make sure to watch out for more.
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your series. Looking forward to further commentary.
_The Bible is a fandom_ - I don't know why hearing this made me so happy...
Maybe because for those of us who understand Fandom, we can see all the same human faults that has made religion faulty. I don't believe the religious wars of past ages were what God wants, but were humans doing what humans do, and doing Bad Things in the name of religion. Shipping wars may only be fought with words, but they can be just as vicious as the Crusades.
Jordan Peterson is the embodiment of john the Baptist. Going to reawaken all of us in the river jordan
Please continue.
Keep going! I enjoyed your commentary and decided that I will be coming back to your videos as go through Jordan's Biblical Series.
I have had the same thought that you have. If anything, Jordan Peterson is bringing a lot of people to take a look at the Bible. Praising God for that! :) Thanks to you for dealing with this!
I am a reformed Christian too and have found myself waiting for a reformed pastor to give me their perspective on JBP. Thank you!
It's cool to see a pastor who likes JBP who is also using TH-cam the way it maybe should be used. One to one, facing the camera, in conversation. Thank you
Thank you so much for starting this series, as a christian I appreciate a pastor’s view on this very much.
Thanks for uploading this (I’m a couple of years late). I have been fascinated by his series and they’ve really shed a different light on seeing bible through different lenses . However I’ve really wanted comments from a Christian POV - so thank you !! 🙂
Phenomenal observations. Keep making content!
Wonderful insights and commentary. I hope this gains more views
Great analysis Paul! Thanks for posting this. For the last few years I have been researching the topic of why Christian men, like myself, can no longer force themselves to attend church anymore. Now I find myself hanging on every word that Jordan Peterson says about the bible. Now I am also listening to every word that you say as well. I will pass your site information on to all my friends.
I’ve found myself engulfed as well in Peterson ‘s work and videos. I also can see why many would feel uncomfortable with some of his positions, particularly surrounding the resurrection, but with a degree of grace and respect it’s fascinating to see the way god is using his work. This thing I keep hearing about...people calling themselves “Christian Atheists,” so curious to me. Odd but for young men to find such worth in these stories is so heartening I’m very much looking forward to seeing where this will go and hopefully being a part of it somehow. Good videos keep them going.
Hi from France, big fan of Peterson. I had not heard of this Christan Atheist concept, but I could relate : I profoundly concur with doc Peterson about the Christian roots of our good civilization, but I do not relate to the ideao of there being a God-like intention at the origin of what is, and keeping an eye on stuff. I might change my mind some day... So far, quite happy to wallow around the Christian cultural and philosophical landscape with fresh and mesmerized curiosity. Also, dare I say, I think I'm a better person for it. Cheers to all that.
I'm late to the video, but I believe experts like yourself make TH-cam a great place. Please keep up the videos.
You have earned a subscriber.
A a fellow minister I am glad you made this video. I have been seeing many of the same things.
"The Bible's archaic..." "You mean like oxygen?"
No, like faith.
This is a great and well needed video. Please continue!!
Just found this channel- looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts
Great thoughts. I'm a pastor and TH-cam creator in a city just outside of Toronto, and have gotten a chance to see six of the lectures live. It's really fascinating that he's hit on a nerve with young people, especially many who would not call themselves Christian. I've subscribed and look forward to engaging more with another Christian pastor from another part of the continent.
Good start, Pastor Paul. Keep it up.
Dr Peterson fascinates me too!👍🏻 I believe God is working through him and it's so cool.😎 Please make more videos. Thanks for the new vocabulary word! Prolegomena.👍🏻
Appreciate the theological review of Dr. Jordan as a Christian he makes sense in today's world thank you
I came across your video because I follow Jordan B Peterson and I learn so much from him and appreciate his intellect and integrity. I go to the Christian Reformed Church in Ingersoll Ontario Canada. Subscribed now to your channel and hope to view more of your videos.
I think both you Pastor VanderKlay and Dr. Peterson are doing a great service to Faith and intelligent discussions about God.
Bless you! As an aerospace engineer and Catholic I have been praying someone smart and educated enough would come along and bridge this chasm between secularism, The New Atheists, and true essence of the Christ. I was hoping it would be a Jesuit though! LOL. But like yourself, I am just thrilled to see sane people discussing God, with no political agenda. And I agree with everything I have heard you say, and this Jordan Peterson phenomena, I agree is God working in a cynical and apathetic world.
Peterson is so authentic as an orator and watching the transference between him and his audience at moments is tearjerking, you can even hear Peterson choke up a bit on certain occasions... Christianity has needed someone like him as well as more people like you and I might add Pope Francis, right now... for as John Kennedy Toole once said in his great book, "I suspect that we are teetering on the edge of the abyss.”
― John Kennedy Toole, A Confederacy of Dunces
Thank you and Bless you! Looking forward to more of your insights!
I wish Fr. Richard Rohr or Father Barron S.J. would step up to the plate and back this great gift Peterson has been given!
Have a wonderful day!
Mike Murphy
Fantastic talk! Very helpful and enlightening!
Thanks for sharing such a detailed point of view. I subscribed loooking forward to see more videos.
I love what you are doing man, may god bless you
Is God doing something through him- some pastor
It depends on what you mean by God- Jordan
Jordan Peterson brought me back to God. I was a self-proclaimed Atheist with resentment against the Church and I am now a religious church go-er. This should speak more of Peterson's wisdom than my naivety/gullibility.
Good video. I'm a Catholic and not much inclined towards the protestant view of the bible or church historically or existentially, but I certainly share your enthusiasm for the good Dr Peterson.
Very good video, I'm glad you are doing something like this. I'm a reformed Christian as well. Very interested in the ideas of Peterson, and the Christian engagement thereof. I've found good help in Tremper Longman III on the topic of comparative mythology especially in Gen. 1-11.
Keep up the good work, hoss. Be like Jacob, struggle with God.
Thanks to God's grace I had the opportunity to become almost totally atheist even if before I prepared to serve God as a priest (I had all my years just the consecration left). Thanks to that "blindness", being in the dark throat of horrid monster with bottomless stomach, I had a chance to rediscover the perfectness of this well elaborated world but by this time from bottom up through a materalist lenses. After the Lord revisited me (it was a real hierophany) and after that (or near to that) He also send me sign like a brightly shining star who examines things from starting the profane to ascend Heaven, he was Jordan B. Peterson. After these experiences I have to kneel down: what a great mystery the incarnation is!!! The Lord showed us the value of the mater and lifted up his own creation into his glory. I think Peterson's genius is that he starts for bottom up like as "story" has been started in Bethlehem from a manger through life and Crucifixion up to Heaven with us.
really nice channel and very good quality:)
This one of the most amazing and profound comment streams I’ve ever seen. There truly is something happening here. It’s incredible to be a part of this time in history. It’s a revival. It’s wonderful.
Just realized this is 9 months old. It still stands hahaha....is anybody out there?
I'm a young man who was raised in the church and I have been starving for wisdom for a long time. Now with William Lane Craig, Stefen C Meyer and Jordan B Peterson, I am developing a love for apologetics. I have real food, I have red meat.
great work, i'm following u from Argentina, blessings for you!
Thank you Paul.
Great stumbling on your channel. I have wanted to get a theologian's take on JBP's Biblical lectures for a while now. Looking forward to hear more. Thanks!
If you wish to hear other Christian theologians' comment on J Peterson, you might like to watch the following on TH-cam:
th-cam.com/video/Bm3nVTF90mw/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/W5iaERTETvE/w-d-xo.html
Your commentaries about the series complements and enrich Peterson's analysis. It will be very interesting to watch a talk between you and Peterson!
That would be fun. I don't know how much we would have to talk about right now. I'm still digging into his stuff and will have more once I really have a sense of what he's about, where he's coming from and where he's going.
I will hope for it!
When I read C.S. Lewis's commentaries on his own conversion, I see a striking resemblance between that and what I have heard a lot of people say about how Mr. Peterson has influenced them. I think its easy to see that we have the beginnings of some kind of revival here, lord knows we are overdue for one.
I agree that Peterson has done good work in elevating truth for God seekers. He is a honest about what he believes.I am using his stuff to reach my feet dragging boys.His stuff is great for the millenials.Nice insight about the utube medium.
I consider myself agnostic and always have, so for me its very useful to get a pastor's perspective. Definitely keep going with the videos. Looking forward to the next one on Nietzsche. I read Thus Spoke Zarathustra a couple of times and it was a fascinating story. I need to read some of his other work though.
I do appreciate your thoughs and I thank you pastor, I believe in the bible as most Christian's do or used to, I'm not sure which is which, but I believe God gave us the Word and is without error, so I like that the style of Jordan's tal, he is not coming from a finished thought but rather he takes us on a ride as he is deveopting thought, which sounds like rambling but at times you can see the foundational thoughts that are established and built upon to bring forth the narrative which keeps mutating, where all the thoughts are bringing forth truths that seem to be there, but are just one more thought away, which keeps you connected and engaged, and that some times that gives you the feeling that you have straddled chaos and order, and for brief moments of time, truth and meaning is revealed, you know what I mean. As a believer in Gods Word, Jordan's presentation is very interesting even though you may disagree with the idea that these stories were established over millions of years of evolution, you would be missing out on a lot of meaning and truths that come from the lectures
The pastor is the real deal. Thank you sir!
Yep, subbing. I've watched most of JPs content and am very interested to see what a trained minister has to say about it.
Pastor Vanderklay,
I'm a 49 yr old heroin/meth addict who was in the ER for the 3rd time this yr due to an OD. I happened to listen to JBP on JRE while laying in my hospital bed dopesick, and that was a major factor in me enrolling in a methadone based treatment program in September 22, and staying clean with a couple of minor setbacks I was able to shrug off. That led me to finding your commentary on JBP and it reminded me about my curiosity/skepticism about a supernaturalist belief in the divine. I was raised in a fundamentalist church superficially, but never took it seriously. I would love to attend your church but alas I am in Los Angeles. I looked around and found a Calvary Chapel church in the LAX/Inglewood area not far from me. I wondered if you could take the time to advise me whether you have any suggestions for a congregation in or about LA or if in your view the Calvary Chapel churches teach a fundamentally 'correct' doctrine. I thank you for your time and attention.
I'm going to see what I can do to find someone who can reach out to you from my network. Thanks so much for your comment.
Paul VanderKlay,
Thank you for taking the time.
Silvery Mountain Time Thank you for your pat on the back. It strengthens me as I clean my room, sort myself out, etc... and deal with the idea of a God.
Silvery Mountain Time, thanks - truly: I found a congregation in Hollywood and have started attending service and bible study. I'm just trying to do the things necessary to stay alive and then to worry about how to comport myself in the time I have left to me in this life. You're very kind to care, and I thank you again for the positive energy you are lending to my efforts. First do no harm, then see how you can help. That seems to me to be what you're doing and I appreciate it.
God's hand through TH-cam made me really consider this movement, and I think that's what you have to call it. Maybe a reawakening?
Thank you for this video. It has reinforced my belief that the new mediums of today (like TH-cam) can benefit the kingdom of God. I also have been looking for a Christian perspective on Jordan Peterson’s work.
You should link to the transliminal interviews. I find those to be the most comprehensive and concise introduction to his thinking (especially the first transliminal interview)
I wrote the author and asked about his terms. He asked that people no use his clips without talking to him first so I'm waiting for a response back. I think his interviews are some of the best. I would love to dive into them. :)
Dr. Peterson has sought to take people out of the materialistic world and beyond the machine age realms of matter and to help them plumb the depths of meaning. He has done this brilliantly and has gone way beyond most to put his finger on some of the real issues of life.
As a psychologist he has been running up against the dysfunctions in humanity. He has diagnosed the problems of fallen man and done this beautifully. So now, by tragic necessity, he is being driven to address the virtues of life. But in doing so he has reached a threshold. He now realizes that there are still greater and more wonderful depths yet to be discovered.
As a psychologist Dr. Peterson sees the sad dysfunctions of humanity every day. He is understandably exasperated that these social ills still prevail while heroic and good people in the West have made it the best place to live on the planet. In a sense he has come to the crossroads.
Good decisions, diligence with the truth, discipline in personal life, all these virtues. We all want virtues in our society. But where is the wellspring of these much desired character traits? From whence come the graces that make our lives bearable? We can talk about these matters and the meaning of life all day and never achieve anything, unless, perhaps, we get help from outside of ourselves.
It is repeat of “a tale of two cities”. Is Dr. Peterson going to take French pathway of humanistic rationalism? Voltaire championed the Age of Reason and a clockwork universe without personal meaning. God was asked by the French to take a hike. After that He was nowhere to be found. All that was left was a nation taken off to war by Napoleon, national disaster, and an existential emptiness that led to “No exit”, sensualism, and the “theater of the absurd.”
So is Dr. Peterson going to take the way of the French? Or the way of the English speaking people with their awakenings? Will he take up his oratory on virtue, as did Robespierre, one of the rationalist Freemasonic orators of the godless French Revolution? Is he going to sell the seven steps to virtue forever, knowing that mankind without God cannot ever achieve character without a spirit to energize the psyche? And what happens if he makes a mis-step as he rides the wave of oratory and wipes out? What happens if he becomes exhausted and comes to the point of personal burnout? Will he be rejected or viewed as passe’ by the masses and the mobs in the streets? Will he be, (metaphorically speaking), sent to the guillotine, like Robespierre was when his oratory was given the thumbs down in the French Revolution?
Dr. Peterson and the psychological profession adopt a rationalist objective approach to the pathology of human thinking, feelings, and behavior. They look scientifically and objectively at what things go wrong in relationships. This leads them to consider the virtues and the graces on the other side of the equation.
Quite clearly Dr. Peterson is now surveying and measuring the rivers of life in God with the same diligence he surveyed the rivers of human dysfunction in the realms of the devil. So what is to be done with this data? How is he to proceed after doing this surveying of good and evil?
Two rivers lie before him. He has investigated them exhaustively. So what now? Is he going to make up His mind which one he is going to dive into?
Is it possible that he could do the radical thing and let go of his rationalistic objectivism? Only then would he be in a position to report his findings on the immersive existential experience in “the God who is there.” To do this he would have to let go of his Greek Aristotelian thinking. No longer would human reason and the sculpted. Image of “the thinker” be his ultimate god. No longer would humanism be the ultimate determinant of truth. To go up to the next level he would have to take that resolve to open the door.
Whether they be brilliant souls or humble souls, people eventually come to the end of themselves. In the interim they struggle. Many end up in depression, existential emptiness, addictions, or sensual pursuits. Many try to find personal fulfillment by joining the herd of programmed robotic humanistic beings and throw themselves into the perceived virtue of “social justice”. There in an atmosphere of mutual glorification they can seek self-fulfillment in lofty perturbations of groupthink. Some level of self-fulfillment can be gained in identifying with these power groups. But as Dr. Peterson has amply demonstrated, behind many of the social justice warrior is the heady power politics of Socialism.
Any socialism is a deadly way of thinking. Because it always falls short and it is always opposed and becomes bloody soon after it is politicized. International socialism, that grievous human folly, has killed upwards of 200 million people. And as Dr. Peterson points out, the tyranny of Communism began in the nice social justice discussions in the coffee shops of Paris.
So is humanistic political groupthink the only viable gathering to be found? And does the political arena set the limits for conversation and for human devotion? Both national socialism and international communism are out there begging for souls. Both of them ended in disaster. Now we have Socialist justice warriors stirring up the masses to cause further waves of grief. What else is there?
There is another choice. People can, and do, give themselves over to the personal real-time Living Logos, of John chapter 1. They surrender their lives to the despised Judeo-Christian God of the West, the God of the people of realms what were once called Western Christendom. That is always a radical thing to do. But it leads to a serendipity.
Human souls cry out in their time of need. At the very same time Someone is knocking at the door from the next dimension. Someone, should we let him in, can take us beyond ourselves. Is there a Someone in whom we can realize virtue personally, even show us and immerse us in the eternal rivers of life?
Is it possible that Dr. Peterson could take the baton from C.S. Lewis and go beyond? Could he, by God’s grace, break out into another role to take a grateful people beyond the current metaphysical oriental stalemate of the ying and the yang? Could his orations on virtue go beyond the mere generic wish-list of virtues to deliver within us the spiritual empowerment that makes these virtues a reality?
How the West needs a trailblazer who can help lead fallen man out of the swamps of psychological despair. Is there not a highway that leads upwards to greater glories? Do we not need faithful trailblazers to lead us into a genuine vital and truthful psychology? Might there be resource in the God of the West who beckons to us from the next dimension, even from an eternal realm beyond our self-life?
See
EndTimePilgrim.org/puritans12.htm
you've gotta turn your mic off while you're playing video of other people talking.
Yes, thanks. You'll find in the subsequent videos I'm slowing figuring this out. Thanks for the help.
Paul VanderKlay less stops as well in my opinion you just didn’t let Jordan speak long enough at any point kinda got annoying
One of the take-away lessons for me after listening to peterson is that one should delve as deep as possible and from every possible angle into questions surrounding one's own beliefs, all and any beliefs, before throwing them or continuing to live with them...esp now when world is so much smaller...and one should always be open to learn something new (anew?afresh?) The same objectivity in a talk cannot be received from a church affiliate without some sort of a perceived bias, I'm thinking. I am grateful to all of u for your years of study and profound insight and for taking a most important issue such as our beliefs seriously
is there somewhere you have book recommendations or a list of the books in your library, sir? your book shelf makes me pretend i could be smart lol
Good post, keep it up
Yes, sorry but I might repeat what others might have already pointed out, the technical problem with the audio when JP clips where played back. I think is feedback from the speakers to the microphone of PV.
This is awesome. Thanks for posting
Pastor, I too am looking forward to more commentary on Peterson's commentary. Subscribed.
Keep up the commentary Sir, very useful.
Thank you so much for doing this.
Thanks for making these commentaries, Paul. I've been interested as to how Peterson's lectures are being 'taken' by the Christian community broadly.
I know in one of them he says that he might be Christianity's best advocate or worst enemy, to a few laughs :) As if he's damning with faint praise, or something like that! XD
Of course, I think his lectures are very high praise, and the success of them prove that there is a surprising hunger in secular people to make sense of the Bible (without being told you must take it literally in order to get value from it).
What do you think about that? Is there a danger in finding value in the Bible as a collection of insightful myths? Does it devalue it, or "remove pressure" in a way, to truly convert?
I didn't watch much of his Bible series yet, but I've seen him talking about it in other shows and watched plenty of lectures where he explains archetypes and meta-truths. He convinced me that he is onto something but I do not feel more pressure to convert to Christianity than to ancient Egyptian religion or any other. I claim this regarding their divinity status but otherwise I do not want to draw a false equivalency, Christianity is the most relevant to the modern west.
I'd say I've become more conscious about the importance of stories. I can fit it reasonably well with my materialist worldview but I wonder if religious people feel the same.
I remember Peterson saying that in no way he wants to reduce them to mere myths, and “good advice “, but that he’s simply analyzing them from a PSYCHOLOGICAL standpoint since that is his field of expert. There are plenty of different ways to anylyze them , historically, theologically, philosophically etc....
James Mathison if you care at all what a random guy on the internet thinks... I think God has arranged history in such a way as to teach us lessons, those lessons are deeply embedded inside the stories God had collected together in the Bible. He is called the author and the rabbi ( teacher). Jesus even instructed his disciples through parables. The lessons and values are there to be observed, wether you believe or not doesn't change the significance of the information. I don't think studying or abiding by the Bible is ever a bad thing.
Cole Dansie You're not some random guy. Your avatar is Rick Sanchez! You're my boi! ;)
And I think you're spot on. The information is there regardless of belief in the factualness. And if it really were arranged by God, wouldn't that be the case? Wouldn't it work on every level?
I think your perspective on this holds the key to bridging the gap between the religious and the secular. And in doing so, saving our valuable culture from disintegration. (Not to be too melodramatic!)
Cole Dansie you gave a beautiful comment :) God reveals his plans for us slowly it seems.
Thank you! Im an atheist but nevertheless I've been intensely inspired and empowered by Peterson and he has helped me sort myself out and take responsibility for my own life.
I've considered my self a hardline atheist with a very Dawkins like attitude towards organized religion. However, after watching Petersons biblical series I would consider myself more along along the lines of an agnostic that believes in the fundimntal principals of the Bible.
You'd be surprised what grips people, the religious and non-religious alike. I've watched 100's of hours of Dr. Peterson, I've seen one of his lectures in person, and I've read his book. I've watched most of his biblical lectures 3 or even more times a piece. The one on Adam and Eve is one of my favorites.
If you haven't seen it, I recommend his sit down with Ben Shapiro on Ben's Sunday Special show. Peterson was guest number one. He really digs deep into the underlying reasons in that short video.
I'm extremely glad pastor's are taking interest in Doc JBP. I think if more preachers would add some of these concepts in their sermons, people may feel more understanding about and a curiousity towards their religion. I know just about every sermon I've listened to was quite shallow, and yes, too darn preachy.
Thanks for spreading the word!
You asked so let me say...
This is great Pastor, you've got a terrific delivery, please keep on at it.
thanks for the vid. i like listening to everyones wisdom. subscribed
One of Christianity's biggest challenge is separating what is in the Bible from evil that has been done by humans, purporting to be doing God's work. It's a massive stumbling block for unbelievers.
Oh yes.
Thank you. Professor Peterson often touches on things that are so far outside the bounds of my education and, likely, intelligence, that I feel I need someone else to help me digest it.
Which, oddly, is all he's really doing in the first place :)
I like how you make connections to other parts of the bible.
please continue! Keep an eye on improving the quality of the video :)
Thank you Paul VanderKlay! I think you are right, there is some sort of 'revival' going on, I call it a 'renaissance', but it's the same thing, it's about re-newing our commitment to something and then discovering that the 'something' wants to renew _it's_ commitment to _us_ too, through an entirely new medium.
I think you are embarking on an important and valuable work here and I wish you all the very best with it. Village Platinum Productions (below) suggests a way to fix the audio problem on this video, (I wouldn't know) but I am definitely looking forward to seeing more from you. Thanks again.
*Liked* and *Subscribed*
Dr. Peterson brought me back to religiosity because of his sensible, scientific approach to the image of God. I’m profoundly indebted to Dr. Peterson.
You had me at the MacLuhan reference. Good talk!
It seems like you know plenty of Toronto Pastors? Do you recommend any good Pastors in Downtown Toronto?
interesting channel. my thoughts on the public interest in the series is that he contextualizes the stories of the bible in a way that doesnt require the leap of faith. Those scientifically inclined can then absorb it without having to derail theyre own worldview.
Nice analysis...petersons diagram of the Bible as a hyperlink document floored me when i saw it
Very interesting take, I am very interested in a pastor's point of view
I'm very interested Peterson, and as a young Christian I would love to hear a Christian's interpretation on his work.
You seem pastorly enough, and I want to expand on the conversation that Dr. Peterson has started. So, I'll be dropping by to see where this goes. Work on your formatting and approach, this might be good.
Interesting presentation. The quality of your part is excellent but the tape of Peterson needs work on audio, I can barely understand what he is saying as well as echo, as some others have mentioned. May I suggest you play a longer segment first then come back and replay with commentary. I like it so far, though.
That should be better in the subsequent videos.
great video, thanks, but the peterson audio quality is bad
Please don't play someone's video through your speakers, or if you do, please unplug one of your speakers so it isn't echoed.