I tell people to just assume that it's *excruciating* and if they think that they can tolerate sitting VERY still for a long time while all your *body* and *brain* want you to do is flinch AWAY from it, then they should be okay. Everybody's different of course, but if they can walk away saying "that wasn't too bad!" then they'll feel like a badass, lol.
Thanks for the kind words-- lemmee tell ya, the 'old school' thing can be pretty double-sided these days, haha My goal is to be as 'worth watching' as possible, without any of the fake, self-aggrandizing/self-promoting crap that 'reality tattoo shows' offer. I hope to keep it up as long as possible.
I dont think that the forearms are that bad based on if your job requires you to be constantly moving and bumping that area such as soldiers electricians and jobs along those lines.
It's GREAT that your videos are short! ^ Comment for algorithm + 👍 'd #Paxus Rating: ☆☆☆☆ ~~~~~~~~~~~ it's a bit of a silly qurstion, since everyone feels pain differently! Not to mention state of mind (psychology)! 😀
Saying coils hurt more is a false and misleading generalisation IMHO. I'll take a coil with a little give and bog in the spring over a direct drive rotary smashing it in no matter the skin. Coils are (generally) more reactionary to the skin than rotaries from what I've noticed (and the actual physics behind them agrees with that). I own and use both types in my day-to-day tattooing depending on what I'm presented with at the time, and obviously have tattooed myself with both, and I can't say that coils ACTUALLY hurt more than rotaries. They may mentally make the client perceive it to hurt more, as you stated, but they definitely don't physically.
I can't disagree more. The physical inefficiencies of coil tech preclude them being anything but more painful. It's simple-- the instability of needle, bar, rubberbands, armature bar, front spring, contact point, backspring, and fluctuating power chain is by its very nature going to cause more tissue damage, and thus more pain. Its inefficient in its approach to moving the needle up and down, coils aren't true and pure, even at peak tune- and all coils go in and out of tune constantly. Look at the theoretical 'ideal' state of a coil machine - duty at 50%... That's not the "theoretical" ideal of a rotary, its the default state of a rotary, and it remains that way at all times. It doesn't go out of tune, and its action in puncturing the skin is pure compared the drag/wobble of coils. I've heard people (always the stubborn and lazy "oldschool" american trad guys who run their mouths about 'loyal to coil') try to claim that coils are efficient because they're fast... "if coils are so inefficient, why can I get it in with my loose 18 so fast??" A surgeon could use a chainsaw to get to a heart more quickly, that hardly makes it the more efficient, ideal alternative to a scalpel... speed doesn't automatically mean good, especially if that speed is the cause of so much tissue damage and scarring. Until such a time as someone can show me clinical trial study data that proves my observations incorrect, I will stick to my beliefs- coils by their very physical nature are unstable, which makes them destructive to skin, which makes them more painful-- and all uneccesarily so, in this day and age of cartridge rotary options. (Incidentally, if anyone is 'smashing it in' with a rotary, then they're 'doing it wrong'. In my experience, that argument about rotaries hitting too hard is the workman blaming the tool and not factoring in the hand of the artist wielding it.) Finally, let me say that everything I just typed--- is meant to be read in a "we're having beers/coffee shooting the shit about this" tone of voice. Thats the one thing I hate about typing for communication, it always makes everything and everyone sound MAXIMUM MAD... I'm not trying to be salty or dismissive or anything. I dont know you or your experience, I have no right to be disrespectful, so I wanted to add this disclaimer in case it seemed like I was trying to be. Cheers, and thanks for posting your perspective without just telling me I'm a dumbass, haha!
@@Zombosis Hahha, nah, I got your tone dude don't worry - you're right that typing for communication is a fundamentally flawed method in many ways. It is worth pointing out that not all rotaries are created equal, a VAST percentage of them are still rocking the needle and tube system so still suffer from the instability of a bar and rubber bands etc and those that are direct drive can easy do a lot of damage in the wrong hands (I am aware anything in the wrong hands can cause damage but I think a coil will bog and stall to a greater extent if pushed too far, a DD rotary will drill down into the bone given half a chance!). Cartridge machines/pens/dildos/whatever you want to call them are a different beast entirely and have changed things a significant amount. I have one, I love it, but only for the job I bought it for (intense colour blending work like neotraditional). Yet, I cant for the life of me get it to line to my hand-speed and technique though and always go back to a coil for that. I can only speak from my experience (as you, from yours) so we are obviously going to have two different takes on the issue. I can see in my work, and on my own skin, that there doesn't appear to be any difference in heal time or quality with either type of machine, and I've never had anyone say the coils hurt more - just occasionally that the noise can be a little 'scary'. Sit down and shut up Karen, tattooing is supposed to be scary.... Dip 'n' Fuckin Rip! Hahahah
I really enjoyed reading both your point of views. And if I may sit down and enjoy a beer/coffee with you gentleman I'd like to add to the conversation if I may? IMHO, both Coil and Rotary machines have their perspective places in creating a fine tattoo piece. During my apprenticeship in the early 90s I had to not only make thousands of needles, but it just so happen my mentor was a machinist so as a result we made everything by hand. Machines (frame and all), power supplies, tubes, grips, tips, cap holders, trays, well you get the idea. And fortunately for me he also worked in a Stainless Steel factory that produced medical supplies of all things, so I was front row to every part of the trade. Hell back then you apprenticed not only as a tattoo artist but a piercer as well so I was able to learn all the ins and outs of that too (there were no "piercing" needles so we made those too). I was so into the tech side of everything that armature bars had to weigh certain grams, coil cores had to be a certain mm and wrapped a specific direction. Capacitors had to rate a certain V and uF and on and on. Now for about 10+ years all I used was what we built and then I purchased my first Micky Sharpz Iron Dial for almost $800. They were considered one of the Cadillacs of coils and I really wanted one bad. I was not disappointed! After the break in time it ran like a dream and I used it on every single piece for years. I then bought a Hybrid and another Dial over the years. I also wanted to get one of Aaron Cain's machines, but they were crazy pricey back in the day and I was getting cheaper as I was getting older, oh and I got married so now I was double fucked when I wanted something lol. During the later years of my career Rotaries started to pop up and yes we resisted them BIG time at first. They seems too light and cheaply made so we were far from impressed. Now Rotaries were nothing new in reality. Back in the 80's I made one out of a walkman motor and a buddy of mine made one out of an electric car motor (way before I ever apprenticed lol). They were quiet with a slight buzz and had no problem driving Indian Ink or Pelican Ink into the skin but they were far from a Bishop...lol This is exactly why I believe most of us around originally resisted the rotaries, because of those early memories of scratcher existence. It wasn't until my business partner at the time was having a rough time holding a coil machine for long hours due to arthritis that he broke down and purchased a Rotary. Once it was delivered to the shop and he opened it up we were all like moths to a light in awe of the packaging and design of it. Was so futuristic to us compared to a walkman motor...lol I'm kinda rambling here guys, sorry I'll wrap it up. So long story short, I now own 4 rotaries as part of my rotation. My set up is usually 1-2 Rotaries for lining, 1-2 Coils for shading/blending and for color packing I have a coil and a rotary that either or will do the job. As for the pain difference for the client...It's a tattoo, not a blow job so it's not gonna be fun either way! I'm pretty covered from head to toe and have been tattooed with all sorts of machines, they all sucked pain wise depending on the spot. No such thing as "pain free" and we don't evolve as artists to be pain free. We evolve to be better and invent equipment that will make OUR lives easier and easier on our bodies. If you're in 50s-60s and have been rocking machines for the better of 30+ years, ya really come to appreciate what the new generation is striving for in ease of equipment. Thanks for the drink guys. Cheers
I tell people to just assume that it's *excruciating* and if they think that they can tolerate sitting VERY still for a long time while all your *body* and *brain* want you to do is flinch AWAY from it, then they should be okay.
Everybody's different of course, but if they can walk away saying "that wasn't too bad!" then they'll feel like a badass, lol.
Today this gentleman right here made my first mexi-nipple tattoo a really enjoyable experience.
Wicked! Looking forward to more.
Fascinating! Thanks Keith!
Lol, love your videos sir! Very inspirational and the fact you have an old school demeanor is even better!🤘
Thanks for the kind words-- lemmee tell ya, the 'old school' thing can be pretty double-sided these days, haha
My goal is to be as 'worth watching' as possible, without any of the fake, self-aggrandizing/self-promoting crap that 'reality tattoo shows' offer. I hope to keep it up as long as possible.
@@Zombosis Please do sir! We need more people like you, i will continue to watch your channel for more inspiration!
I dont think that the forearms are that bad based on if your job requires you to be constantly moving and bumping that area such as soldiers electricians and jobs along those lines.
It's GREAT that your videos are short!
^ Comment for algorithm + 👍 'd
#Paxus Rating: ☆☆☆☆ ~~~~~~~~~~~ it's a bit of a silly qurstion, since everyone feels pain differently! Not to mention state of mind (psychology)! 😀
I like the feeling of getting tattoos
Awesome Vid. Question: how do you stop twitching when getting a tattoo on the legs. such as the calf?
In your case, we'll probably have to resort to using leather straps. ;)
love your videos!
Lol so basically in a nutshell yes it hurts🤣
Sounds a lot like my experience was its BDSM
Good job!!! ☺️🙏☺️
Still rockin the short cut hey?. looks solid ;)
Saying coils hurt more is a false and misleading generalisation IMHO. I'll take a coil with a little give and bog in the spring over a direct drive rotary smashing it in no matter the skin. Coils are (generally) more reactionary to the skin than rotaries from what I've noticed (and the actual physics behind them agrees with that). I own and use both types in my day-to-day tattooing depending on what I'm presented with at the time, and obviously have tattooed myself with both, and I can't say that coils ACTUALLY hurt more than rotaries. They may mentally make the client perceive it to hurt more, as you stated, but they definitely don't physically.
I can't disagree more. The physical inefficiencies of coil tech preclude them being anything but more painful. It's simple-- the instability of needle, bar, rubberbands, armature bar, front spring, contact point, backspring, and fluctuating power chain is by its very nature going to cause more tissue damage, and thus more pain. Its inefficient in its approach to moving the needle up and down, coils aren't true and pure, even at peak tune- and all coils go in and out of tune constantly. Look at the theoretical 'ideal' state of a coil machine - duty at 50%... That's not the "theoretical" ideal of a rotary, its the default state of a rotary, and it remains that way at all times. It doesn't go out of tune, and its action in puncturing the skin is pure compared the drag/wobble of coils. I've heard people (always the stubborn and lazy "oldschool" american trad guys who run their mouths about 'loyal to coil') try to claim that coils are efficient because they're fast... "if coils are so inefficient, why can I get it in with my loose 18 so fast??" A surgeon could use a chainsaw to get to a heart more quickly, that hardly makes it the more efficient, ideal alternative to a scalpel... speed doesn't automatically mean good, especially if that speed is the cause of so much tissue damage and scarring. Until such a time as someone can show me clinical trial study data that proves my observations incorrect, I will stick to my beliefs- coils by their very physical nature are unstable, which makes them destructive to skin, which makes them more painful-- and all uneccesarily so, in this day and age of cartridge rotary options. (Incidentally, if anyone is 'smashing it in' with a rotary, then they're 'doing it wrong'. In my experience, that argument about rotaries hitting too hard is the workman blaming the tool and not factoring in the hand of the artist wielding it.)
Finally, let me say that everything I just typed--- is meant to be read in a "we're having beers/coffee shooting the shit about this" tone of voice. Thats the one thing I hate about typing for communication, it always makes everything and everyone sound MAXIMUM MAD... I'm not trying to be salty or dismissive or anything. I dont know you or your experience, I have no right to be disrespectful, so I wanted to add this disclaimer in case it seemed like I was trying to be. Cheers, and thanks for posting your perspective without just telling me I'm a dumbass, haha!
@@Zombosis Hahha, nah, I got your tone dude don't worry - you're right that typing for communication is a fundamentally flawed method in many ways.
It is worth pointing out that not all rotaries are created equal, a VAST percentage of them are still rocking the needle and tube system so still suffer from the instability of a bar and rubber bands etc and those that are direct drive can easy do a lot of damage in the wrong hands (I am aware anything in the wrong hands can cause damage but I think a coil will bog and stall to a greater extent if pushed too far, a DD rotary will drill down into the bone given half a chance!). Cartridge machines/pens/dildos/whatever you want to call them are a different beast entirely and have changed things a significant amount. I have one, I love it, but only for the job I bought it for (intense colour blending work like neotraditional). Yet, I cant for the life of me get it to line to my hand-speed and technique though and always go back to a coil for that.
I can only speak from my experience (as you, from yours) so we are obviously going to have two different takes on the issue. I can see in my work, and on my own skin, that there doesn't appear to be any difference in heal time or quality with either type of machine, and I've never had anyone say the coils hurt more - just occasionally that the noise can be a little 'scary'. Sit down and shut up Karen, tattooing is supposed to be scary.... Dip 'n' Fuckin Rip!
Hahahah
I really enjoyed reading both your point of views. And if I may sit down and enjoy a beer/coffee with you gentleman I'd like to add to the conversation if I may? IMHO, both Coil and Rotary machines have their perspective places in creating a fine tattoo piece. During my apprenticeship in the early 90s I had to not only make thousands of needles, but it just so happen my mentor was a machinist so as a result we made everything by hand. Machines (frame and all), power supplies, tubes, grips, tips, cap holders, trays, well you get the idea. And fortunately for me he also worked in a Stainless Steel factory that produced medical supplies of all things, so I was front row to every part of the trade. Hell back then you apprenticed not only as a tattoo artist but a piercer as well so I was able to learn all the ins and outs of that too (there were no "piercing" needles so we made those too). I was so into the tech side of everything that armature bars had to weigh certain grams, coil cores had to be a certain mm and wrapped a specific direction. Capacitors had to rate a certain V and uF and on and on.
Now for about 10+ years all I used was what we built and then I purchased my first Micky Sharpz Iron Dial for almost $800. They were considered one of the Cadillacs of coils and I really wanted one bad. I was not disappointed! After the break in time it ran like a dream and I used it on every single piece for years. I then bought a Hybrid and another Dial over the years. I also wanted to get one of Aaron Cain's machines, but they were crazy pricey back in the day and I was getting cheaper as I was getting older, oh and I got married so now I was double fucked when I wanted something lol.
During the later years of my career Rotaries started to pop up and yes we resisted them BIG time at first. They seems too light and cheaply made so we were far from impressed. Now Rotaries were nothing new in reality. Back in the 80's I made one out of a walkman motor and a buddy of mine made one out of an electric car motor (way before I ever apprenticed lol). They were quiet with a slight buzz and had no problem driving Indian Ink or Pelican Ink into the skin but they were far from a Bishop...lol This is exactly why I believe most of us around originally resisted the rotaries, because of those early memories of scratcher existence. It wasn't until my business partner at the time was having a rough time holding a coil machine for long hours due to arthritis that he broke down and purchased a Rotary. Once it was delivered to the shop and he opened it up we were all like moths to a light in awe of the packaging and design of it. Was so futuristic to us compared to a walkman motor...lol
I'm kinda rambling here guys, sorry I'll wrap it up. So long story short, I now own 4 rotaries as part of my rotation. My set up is usually 1-2 Rotaries for lining, 1-2 Coils for shading/blending and for color packing I have a coil and a rotary that either or will do the job. As for the pain difference for the client...It's a tattoo, not a blow job so it's not gonna be fun either way! I'm pretty covered from head to toe and have been tattooed with all sorts of machines, they all sucked pain wise depending on the spot. No such thing as "pain free" and we don't evolve as artists to be pain free. We evolve to be better and invent equipment that will make OUR lives easier and easier on our bodies. If you're in 50s-60s and have been rocking machines for the better of 30+ years, ya really come to appreciate what the new generation is striving for in ease of equipment. Thanks for the drink guys. Cheers
Anyone ever tell you you look like the adam savage of tattooing
I'll take shins over calves any day.
I hope you all plan to do more of this/these!!??
Yes, we have many topics that will be covered. Sort of a "FAQ" in vlog format. :)