If you like electrical related content check out this playlist here: th-cam.com/play/PLNTCwOMUgw1pnPfaoX5ZcjkhqyGSzRDVe.html and if you would like to subscribe to the channel you can do that here. th-cam.com/users/BackyardMaine Thanks for being part of the Backyard Maine community.
Great channel and video John! I have a question, our house was built in 1983 and recently we thought we had a dead non-GFCI receptacle in the front bathroom. So I decided to upgrade it to a new GFCI receptacle with usb ports for my wife. I then realized that it was on the same circuit as the receptacle in the master bath that is a GFCI receptacle, and read that you shouldn’t put more than one GFCI receptacle on the same circuit (you can but it may cause some issues). So I made the decision to put the new GFCI receptacle with usb ports in the master bath and buy a new regular duplex receptacle with usb ports in the front bathroom. So now, after watching your video, I wonder if I should put a GFCI receptacle in the front bathroom as well as the master on the same circuit? I understand that not all codes apply to both new construction and remodel/retrofits, I would just like to do whatever is the best and safest for my family. Any assistance you can give me is greatly appreciated!
@@AARON10B Thank you.. GFCI protection is required in bathrooms but you don't have to have a GFCI receptacle in the bathroom to meet the code. The protection can come from a GFCI circuit breaker or from another GFCI located somewhere else in the home. I personally like to use the receptacles at point of use because if you trip it (which will happen) you can reset it right there. But the way you have it now is fine. Just be sure that it's connect correctly by testing it. Plug testers are cheap and I great tool to have around the house. You can find one at HD or Lowes with a button to test GFCIs. Just plug it into the non-GFCI in the bathroom, push the button and make sure it trips the one in the other room. Also I put several GFCI on the same circuit all the time and have never had a problem.
I know I'm not the only one that thinks John should've been any teacher of mine in school. Any grade any subject. John just has that teaching "thing", whatever that means. Great channel
I still find it troubling that they require GFCI outlets for refrigerators. I find that they will trip the GFCI receptacle and shut off the refrigerator causing food spoilage. What would you recommend? Also, how in the Halifax are we to GFCI protect a 30 amp dryer and what lead to that decision? Great video.
I agree. I think the refrigerator or a freezer should be exceptions. For a 30A dryer or a 50A range you would use a 2P-30A or a 2P-50A GFCI breaker. Remember you won't have to change an existing installation unless you're renovating or sometimes it's required as a condition of a sale. Dryers are usually beside the washing machine or part of the washing machine which present what's considered a significant amount of water over a gallon and is why the CMP (code making panel) voted to include them in the requirement.
we had a old fridge that had a butter warmer compartment in the door, and you could get a shock from it if you opened the door and was touching something else and i would still never have a gfi on a refrigerator@@Wowzersdude-k5c
I’d like to add something that is missing from that nice milliamp chart right at the beginning of this video. Back in the 1970s when I started doing electrical work for a railroad, we were taught that it only takes 6 mA flowing across your chest in order to send your heart into fibrillation, which can only be stopped with an AED device…and back in the 70s, none of us had those devices because they were only available in certain emergency service vehicles and were quite bulky, as they were the same units used in hospitals.
@@BackyardMaine Oh, they are, but they're not specific, and they neglect what happens when current passes across your chest just a little bit, because unless somebody is there that can defribrilate you if your heart goes into V-fib, you are a dead man. You have to remember that OSHA is not industry professionals. It's bureaucrats.
@@arthouston7361 I was the electrical engineer for a multi billion dollar corporation. We would occasionally get an OSHA audit and they would send experts in every area of expertise. Electrical, chemical, mechanical etc. The electrical guys from OSHA I worked with were experts who understood everything I showed them from 35kv distribution, generators, UPS systems, transfer switches, rotary UPS systems couples to generators, fire pumps, controls and everything else. The bureaucrats were not the guys in the field in my experience.
@@BackyardMaine The guys that they sent you that you are describing are part of a very specialized group. I've met the guys from OSHA who fit that category, but they're not the people that make the rules, and they're not the people who produce graphics. I didn't do any 35K work, but our railroad signal power on the former Penn Central was 8.8 kv. More than enough to send you to meet the great I am. Our power source was the old Philadelphia electric company, and so we had a lot of safety information that came directly from them.
My house was built in the early 50s. So unfortunately, I don’t have a ground wires. Is it possible to use a GFCI outlets to get around rewiring my house for now?
Yes it is. GFCIs with still operate as designed without a ground and it will allow you to connect three prong plugs. The only thing is you need to put a sticker on each one indicating there is no ground.
I find that with videos if I go deep into the actual way things work people eyes glaze over and my video retention is poor. I have to keep it to the basics but I could and happily would go into the details if I knew that would work.
@BackyardMaine Thank you for the informative video. Quick question: Does GFCI prevent fire due to sparking in the garage due to a car block heater or some other heater? Thanks in advance.
Only if it's arcing to ground. If its arcing across the contact (line to line) or to (line to neutral) the GFCI would not detect that fault. An AFCI would trip from that sort of arcing.
Enjoyed your video, thank you. But the comment at :42 seconds, I do not understand. Can you clarify, slowly, or make another video just on that? Thanks again.
John, what do you think about GFCI protection as it is applied to a "downstream" receptacle from an upstream GFCI receptacle? I get the cost savings of using the 'load' side of a GFCI for downstream receptacles, but aside from extreme current draws where that receptacle should have been on another branch circuit to begin with, and also applying the handy little "GFCI Protected" tag, are there any other considerations?
The circuits of course should be sized and split of based on expected load but other than that there is no issue using one GFCI to supply the other receptacles. I have done this quite a bit. In kitchen and bathrooms I always install a GFCI at every location for aesthetic purposes. I think it looks better especially over counter tops. But from an electrical standpoint it's just fine.
My apartment was shut down by code for no heat or hot water but we also were living there for 5 years with everything in the three bedroom apartment hooked up to only TWO circuit breakers 20 amps each and our oven was not on gfci.
@@BackyardMaine oh, it’s not even about upgrading to newer standards it’s about that was completely out of code to begin with to have a three bedroom apartment running off two circuit breakers that are 20 A each. There’s no way that that can be right you know what I mean
@@BackyardMaine you’re saying that it’s legal to remove all the wires from all the other 14 circuit breakers and hook them up to the last two in the panel and rent the apartment to a family of 6? It has nothing to do with being old, the electrical was redone in the nineties but when the circuit breakers broke because they were 30 years old they just moved the wires to a breaker that worked instead of replacing the breaker. Do you understand now? It’s also against the law to remove the main breaker while the family is living there and that’s what my landlord did to my neighbor downstairs.
@@richroc7 No what I'm saying is it may have been code compliant when it was installed if the installation happened a very long time ago. The code is not retroactive so we are not required to make updates and the code updates over the decades. It applies to new work. There may be rules outside of the code that prevent renting an apartment when it is unsafe but it's not in the NEC. I hope this clear up any confusion.
What is the requirement for submersible water pumps (typically 240V, 20A circuit)? I would like to see a video on circuits that require BOTH AFCI and GFCI protection.
Hard wired submersible well pumps do not require GFCI protection. If they are cord and plug connected they do. I put that video on my list. Stay tuned.
I recently took the National Home Inspector exam and this question came up. At what amp with the GFCI trip with human contact and 5 amp wasn't one of the answers had 4, 6, 10 and 12. Not sure if I got the answer correct I choose 6. Now I'm thinking more like 4.
The manufacturers rate the devices to trip between 4-6 mA. Picking 5mA is the industry standard. If I had to choose between 4 and 6 I would choose 6 since it may not trip at 4.
IET Wiring Regulations 18 th Edition Chapter 41 411.1 where specified, additional protection is provided by an RCD with rated residual operating current not exceeding 30mA, in accordance with Regulation 415.1. That's how is it in our Wiring Regulations. Same science, different voltage and amps.
Yes it's a bit different. I think the reason for the higher 30mA is because you run 220v to ground which will nuisance anything less than 20mA. We have SPGFCI breakers for voltages greater than 150v to ground which trip at 20mA.
@@BackyardMaine Since the 18th Edition Amendment 2: 2022 was introduced. All new domestic installation have to have Surge Protection (SPD). Also property's that are Care Homes , Student Accomodation and Hotels need AFDDs (Arc Fault Detector Device) on all circuits. So, now the circuit is protected from over current by circuit breaker, earth fault by RCD, Surge current by SPD and finally Arc Faults by AFDD. Come a long way from a simple re-wireable Fuse that your Dad re-wire if it had blown. Only socket outlets and light fittings are permitted by non skilled person (electrically) since 2005. No tinkering with Fuse Box anymore for Dad.
New construction or if you renovate and pull a permit. Also depends on which year code you state and county have adopted. Some states are several code cycles behind.
No, if you use the load terminal to feed other receptacles and the GFCI trips, those receptacle will lose power. That's the whole point, all receptacle connected to the load side terminal will be GFCI protected.
@BackyardMaine I've learned that when stringing 3 gfi on same branch leg I couldn't use LOAD as that would be serial; I needed parallel so if one gfi tripped, all three gfi would trip.
GFCI protection can be challenging to implement on multiwire branch circuits (MWBCs) due to the shared neutral. In a MWBC, two hot wires share a common neutral. When a GFCI monitors the current on the hot and neutral conductors, it may not accurately detect ground faults because the current on the neutral is the algebraic sum of the currents on both hot wires. I guess you could get away with using a double pole GFCI breaker for both phases.
That's an unusual problem. Check to make sure it's wired correctly first and that there are no loose connections. If everything looks good replace the receptacle.
It has probably failed- depending on when it was made as more recent GFCIs are designed to interrupt power delivery when they no longer provide GFCI protection.
(210.8 A-F) GFCI Protection for Personnel. (210.13) (230.95) GFCI Protection for Equipment. Other Articles for GFCI and SPGFCI are scattered throughout the code. (410.184) (680.5) (680.44) (690.41) probably a few more I can't remember.
The kitchen receptacles do require GFCI protection. You can do that with individual GFCI receptacles, GFCI breakers, or a few GFCI receptacles with standard receptacles wire to the load side of them. I like installing all GFCI receptacles because I think it looks better and its right there if it needs to be reset.
i thought they had an exception for dedicated refrigerator outlets so you don't lose all the contents of refrigerator from a nuisance trip. my neighbor redid their kitchen and the inspector wanted gfci breakers not outlets in the kitchen why is he asking for that is that in new code is the breaker better than the outlet?
They were forced to put a few of these in my new shop building in order to get power hooked up. Even though the building has no water. The problem is that on a 15 amp breaker, about 80% of the time my saw will trip the GFCI when it starts up, even though it is less than 15 amps. The real problem is that when my wife and I were out of town for a week there was an interruption in our power and, though the power came back on, All of the GFCI outlets tripped, and two of them were connected to a freezer. We lost a lot of food. My solution: Removed and replaced with normal outlets. Problems solved. I'll live - probably. Our outlets are as safe as they were when I was in high school (early 70's). And we built our own home at that time. i.e. it has no GFCI outlets and nobody has died yet.😁 The ones in our home trip from time to time, but that's not really a problem because they are not on the circuit attached to our refer, and we don't plug any high power appliances. Not worth the hassle of replacing them. They are simply not acceptable in the shop building.
I hear you. We want to be safe but we need the circuits to work. Power surges can damage a GFCI since they do have electronics. One of the reasons why surge suppressors are now required by code. Power saws are inductive loads which means they have inrush each time they start. That inrush can be as high as six times the running load for a short duration. My table saw draws about 12A while cutting but will trip a 15A breaker every time it starts. I have to remember to plug it into a 20A circuit.
I was hoping he was going to explain HOW they work. I get it that when there is an imbalance they trip, but how does the device actually detect the imbalance.
The GFCIs use a CT (current transformer) to monitor the hot and neutral together which will detect zero amps during normal operation. The CT is monitored by an IC board (integrated circuit board) and when it detects ~5mA or more the IC opens a relay which trips the GFCI which interrupts the flow of current to the fault. I hope this helps.
Why can't we just use GFCI circuit breakers. it is much easier to upgrade them instead of all the receptacles in a house. It is also hard to find heavy dusty GFCI receptacles.
Yes, GFCI breakers are also a code compliant option. Many people prefer the point of use option for a few reasons. 1- The receptacles are more convenient to reset rather than having to go to the panel. 2- The receptacles are a whole lot cheaper than the breakers. 3- The breaker will protect the whole circuit which isn't always desirable.
Thank you for the clarification of the code. In some projects a large number of receptacles may need to be updated (e.g. basement). In this situation upgrade of the circuit breaker may be cheaper. A 14A receptacles is about $15-20. A circuit breaker is about $50. It is also hard to find heavy-duty spec of GFCI receptacles. There are hospital-grade GFCIs but they are very $$$. At the same time you can find an industrial-grade Leviton for $7-8. GFCI circuit breakers may also be an option if outlet endurance and reliability are desired by the customer.
most of the time you just put one gfi outlet in first one on that circuit and then feed rest of outlets off of that gfis output terminals so you only need to buy one GFI not every outlet@@aparamon
So every outlet now basically which no houses will meet this code unless built new. Also, GFIC's are a massive pain in rear as they are often faulty out of the pack and seem to trip when u breath anywhere near them
There are still many areas in the home that don't require GFCIs. I'm not experiencing any issues with the ones I have purchased. I have had an occasional faulty device but less than 1 in 100 and for reference, I haven't had one fail in my own home since they were installed 25 years ago.
@@BackyardMaine I've had at least 2 fail out of pack for me and have seen several professionally installed GFCI's continually trip and have to be removed, or wiring rerouting to avoid using one Heard from several 40yr+ electrical veterans also dislike them for reasons above.
A range requires GFCI? where do you even get a GFCI receptacle for a range oven? ANd now a refrigerator and microwave require gfci? These are devices known to trip GFCI's all the time just from regular use. this is a bad decision and I am completely against it. YOu just know electricians will comply for the inspectors then change them out after everything passes.
GFCI protection for the range would be installed at the panel as a breaker. I get that the GFCIs do save lives but there is also the practicality of the device to consider. I don't wind the range or even a microwave but refrigerators and freezers are a mistake in my opinion. Once people start loosing a freezer or refrigerator full of food because they didn't realize the GFCI tripped they will be changing them out.
Refrigerant compressors can trip GFCI’s on start up. AC’s and heat pumps are also required now. Homeowners are going to love paying for a service call just for a tripped gfci
They are being driven by circuit breaker manufacturers looking to increase their sales of both. And trying to drive business away from receptacle manufacturers.
I want to know how much bribe money is paid out by manufacturers to get their products, often causing loss of food , water control when it comes to Arc fault devices,
Jeez. Why not just make everything require GFCI from the very beginning? Why play this game of slowly requiring more and more locations to be protected?
If you like electrical related content check out this playlist here: th-cam.com/play/PLNTCwOMUgw1pnPfaoX5ZcjkhqyGSzRDVe.html and if you would like to subscribe to the channel you can do that here. th-cam.com/users/BackyardMaine Thanks for being part of the Backyard Maine community.
Great channel and video John! I have a question, our house was built in 1983 and recently we thought we had a dead non-GFCI receptacle in the front bathroom. So I decided to upgrade it to a new GFCI receptacle with usb ports for my wife. I then realized that it was on the same circuit as the receptacle in the master bath that is a GFCI receptacle, and read that you shouldn’t put more than one GFCI receptacle on the same circuit (you can but it may cause some issues). So I made the decision to put the new GFCI receptacle with usb ports in the master bath and buy a new regular duplex receptacle with usb ports in the front bathroom. So now, after watching your video, I wonder if I should put a GFCI receptacle in the front bathroom as well as the master on the same circuit?
I understand that not all codes apply to both new construction and remodel/retrofits, I would just like to do whatever is the best and safest for my family. Any assistance you can give me is greatly appreciated!
@@AARON10B Thank you.. GFCI protection is required in bathrooms but you don't have to have a GFCI receptacle in the bathroom to meet the code. The protection can come from a GFCI circuit breaker or from another GFCI located somewhere else in the home. I personally like to use the receptacles at point of use because if you trip it (which will happen) you can reset it right there. But the way you have it now is fine. Just be sure that it's connect correctly by testing it. Plug testers are cheap and I great tool to have around the house. You can find one at HD or Lowes with a button to test GFCIs. Just plug it into the non-GFCI in the bathroom, push the button and make sure it trips the one in the other room. Also I put several GFCI on the same circuit all the time and have never had a problem.
@@BackyardMaine thank for update, did not know that on GFCI
@1:54 really appreciate you demonstrating how the circuitry inside the GFCI outlet works like this!
Great video! Thanks for covering the NEC 2023 GFCI updates at 5:00. Your videos are helping people stay safe.
Thanks my friend.. I try to help with my videos. I just uploaded a new one about 5 false statements about code requirements.
Great teaching videos, thank you. Your videos are concise and to the point.
Glad you like them! Much appreciated Sir.
I appreciate your knowledge. I use your videos as a great resource to help me stay in code. Nice work on your presentation as well. Thanks
I appreciate that! I love to hear my videos are helpful to my viewers
You should do another video about all the changes in the electrical code. Just the ones that DIYs would use
I'm thinking about doing a series on that.. 1-3 minute videos on 2023 code changes. I'm just wondering if it would have enough interest?
@@BackyardMaine well I know I'd be interested LOL
@@zacharykorbet9690 Thanks Zachary.. I think I'll try a few videos and see how they perform. Stay tuned my friend.
I know I'm not the only one that thinks John should've been any teacher of mine in school. Any grade any subject.
John just has that teaching "thing", whatever that means. Great channel
Thank you so much my friend. I try real hard to provide value. Much appreciated
Excellent demo and Information.
Thank you kindly Sir..
This is helpful for students like studying Basic Occupational Safety and Health. Thank you so much!❤
Awesome.. Thanks for watching.
I love your videos. OMG were just all going to live forever if they keep adding all these restrictions
I know right. lol Thank you my friend. It's a lot of work putting these together and it's nice to read comments like yours.
Just subbed and wanted to say thanks. Good information and learning. You deserve more subs.
Much appreciated! Thank you!
would like to see a AFCI Video
I have that on my list as well. Stay tuned..
I still find it troubling that they require GFCI outlets for refrigerators. I find that they will trip the GFCI receptacle and shut off the refrigerator causing food spoilage. What would you recommend? Also, how in the Halifax are we to GFCI protect a 30 amp dryer and what lead to that decision? Great video.
I agree. I think the refrigerator or a freezer should be exceptions. For a 30A dryer or a 50A range you would use a 2P-30A or a 2P-50A GFCI breaker. Remember you won't have to change an existing installation unless you're renovating or sometimes it's required as a condition of a sale. Dryers are usually beside the washing machine or part of the washing machine which present what's considered a significant amount of water over a gallon and is why the CMP (code making panel) voted to include them in the requirement.
There are GFCIs that have an audible alarm when tripped. Wouldn't help if you're away though.
the code making panel is getting ridiculously stupid @@BackyardMaine
@@ranger178 Fridges have become live and killed people (as have washers/dryers).
we had a old fridge that had a butter warmer compartment in the door, and you could get a shock from it if you opened the door and was touching something else and i would still never have a gfi on a refrigerator@@Wowzersdude-k5c
Thanks for sharing.
Our pleasure! Thanks for watching.
Good work, clear and easy to understand!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching
I’d like to add something that is missing from that nice milliamp chart right at the beginning of this video. Back in the 1970s when I started doing electrical work for a railroad, we were taught that it only takes 6 mA flowing across your chest in order to send your heart into fibrillation, which can only be stopped with an AED device…and back in the 70s, none of us had those devices because they were only available in certain emergency service vehicles and were quite bulky, as they were the same units used in hospitals.
Thanks for the info..The chart I used was borrowed from an OSHA document and I believe those are the current numbers the industry is using today.
@@BackyardMaine Oh, they are, but they're not specific, and they neglect what happens when current passes across your chest just a little bit, because unless somebody is there that can defribrilate you if your heart goes into V-fib, you are a dead man.
You have to remember that OSHA is not industry professionals. It's bureaucrats.
@@arthouston7361 I was the electrical engineer for a multi billion dollar corporation. We would occasionally get an OSHA audit and they would send experts in every area of expertise. Electrical, chemical, mechanical etc. The electrical guys from OSHA I worked with were experts who understood everything I showed them from 35kv distribution, generators, UPS systems, transfer switches, rotary UPS systems couples to generators, fire pumps, controls and everything else. The bureaucrats were not the guys in the field in my experience.
@@BackyardMaine The guys that they sent you that you are describing are part of a very specialized group.
I've met the guys from OSHA who fit that category, but they're not the people that make the rules, and they're not the people who produce graphics. I didn't do any 35K work, but our railroad signal power on the former Penn Central was 8.8 kv. More than enough to send you to meet the great I am. Our power source was the old Philadelphia electric company, and so we had a lot of safety information that came directly from them.
Love your videos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
My house was built in the early 50s. So unfortunately, I don’t have a ground wires. Is it possible to use a GFCI outlets to get around rewiring my house for now?
Yes it is. GFCIs with still operate as designed without a ground and it will allow you to connect three prong plugs. The only thing is you need to put a sticker on each one indicating there is no ground.
Great explanation of the use and function of a GFCI. Answered my concern completely. Thanks for your service (but lose the old navy jacket, ha ha)
Thank you. Talk to my wife about the sweatshirt. lol
It's crazy how little you talked about how they actually work in this video
I find that with videos if I go deep into the actual way things work people eyes glaze over and my video retention is poor. I have to keep it to the basics but I could and happily would go into the details if I knew that would work.
Great video as always - thank you.
My pleasure! Thanks so much for watching my videos.
thank you very much , you are amazing in explain
My pleasure.. Thanks for watching.
@BackyardMaine Thank you for the informative video.
Quick question: Does GFCI prevent fire due to sparking in the garage due to a car block heater or some other heater?
Thanks in advance.
Only if it's arcing to ground. If its arcing across the contact (line to line) or to (line to neutral) the GFCI would not detect that fault. An AFCI would trip from that sort of arcing.
Has Leviton changed the position of the line and load connections on their residential GFCI receptacles? TIA
I'll have to check. I don't remember.
Great Video
He didn’t actually like this video his class made him comment this
Thanks!
Thank you so much!!
You're welcome! Thanks for watching.
Enjoyed your video, thank you. But the comment at :42 seconds, I do not understand. Can you clarify, slowly, or make another video just on that?
Thanks again.
I’ll have to check the video and get back to you. I can’t remember what I said at that time.
John, what do you think about GFCI protection as it is applied to a "downstream" receptacle from an upstream GFCI receptacle? I get the cost savings of using the 'load' side of a GFCI for downstream receptacles, but aside from extreme current draws where that receptacle should have been on another branch circuit to begin with, and also applying the handy little "GFCI Protected" tag, are there any other considerations?
The circuits of course should be sized and split of based on expected load but other than that there is no issue using one GFCI to supply the other receptacles. I have done this quite a bit. In kitchen and bathrooms I always install a GFCI at every location for aesthetic purposes. I think it looks better especially over counter tops. But from an electrical standpoint it's just fine.
My apartment was shut down by code for no heat or hot water but we also were living there for 5 years with everything in the three bedroom apartment hooked up to only TWO circuit breakers 20 amps each and our oven was not on gfci.
Old or existing installations are not required to upgrade to current standards unless new work is being done.
@@BackyardMaine oh, it’s not even about upgrading to newer standards it’s about that was completely out of code to begin with to have a three bedroom apartment running off two circuit breakers that are 20 A each. There’s no way that that can be right you know what I mean
@@richroc7 Unless it was built 70 years ago or more.
@@BackyardMaine you’re saying that it’s legal to remove all the wires from all the other 14 circuit breakers and hook them up to the last two in the panel and rent the apartment to a family of 6? It has nothing to do with being old, the electrical was redone in the nineties but when the circuit breakers broke because they were 30 years old they just moved the wires to a breaker that worked instead of replacing the breaker. Do you understand now? It’s also against the law to remove the main breaker while the family is living there and that’s what my landlord did to my neighbor downstairs.
@@richroc7 No what I'm saying is it may have been code compliant when it was installed if the installation happened a very long time ago. The code is not retroactive so we are not required to make updates and the code updates over the decades. It applies to new work. There may be rules outside of the code that prevent renting an apartment when it is unsafe but it's not in the NEC. I hope this clear up any confusion.
Great content .
Thank you! Much more to come.
What is the requirement for submersible water pumps (typically 240V, 20A circuit)? I would like to see a video on circuits that require BOTH AFCI and GFCI protection.
Hard wired submersible well pumps do not require GFCI protection. If they are cord and plug connected they do. I put that video on my list. Stay tuned.
I recently took the National Home Inspector exam and this question came up. At what amp with the GFCI trip with human contact and 5 amp wasn't one of the answers had 4, 6, 10 and 12. Not sure if I got the answer correct I choose 6. Now I'm thinking more like 4.
The manufacturers rate the devices to trip between 4-6 mA. Picking 5mA is the industry standard. If I had to choose between 4 and 6 I would choose 6 since it may not trip at 4.
IET Wiring Regulations 18 th Edition
Chapter 41 411.1 where specified, additional protection is provided by an RCD with rated residual operating current not exceeding 30mA, in accordance with Regulation 415.1.
That's how is it in our Wiring Regulations. Same science, different voltage and amps.
Yes it's a bit different. I think the reason for the higher 30mA is because you run 220v to ground which will nuisance anything less than 20mA. We have SPGFCI breakers for voltages greater than 150v to ground which trip at 20mA.
@@BackyardMaine
Since the 18th Edition Amendment 2: 2022 was introduced. All new domestic installation have to have Surge Protection (SPD). Also property's that are Care Homes , Student Accomodation and Hotels need AFDDs (Arc Fault Detector Device) on all circuits. So, now the circuit is protected from over current by circuit breaker, earth fault by RCD, Surge current by SPD and finally Arc Faults by AFDD. Come a long way from a simple re-wireable Fuse that your Dad re-wire if it had blown. Only socket outlets and light fittings are permitted by non skilled person (electrically) since 2005. No tinkering with Fuse Box anymore for Dad.
Is this new construction or retroactive?
New construction or if you renovate and pull a permit. Also depends on which year code you state and county have adopted. Some states are several code cycles behind.
Thanks
My pleasure..
Another youtuber says don't use Load terminals to next outlet as next outlet will still be hot despite gfi tripping ! Is that true ?
No, if you use the load terminal to feed other receptacles and the GFCI trips, those receptacle will lose power. That's the whole point, all receptacle connected to the load side terminal will be GFCI protected.
@BackyardMaine the other youtube meant if 2nd receptical is gfi it won't ttip.
You can actually even use a gfci down stream of another gfci and it will work but there is nothing gained by wiring them that way.
@BackyardMaine I've learned that when stringing 3 gfi on same branch leg I couldn't use LOAD as that would be serial; I needed parallel so if one gfi tripped, all three gfi would trip.
❤❤❤
Does the receptacle in which the GFCI is installed have to be grounded for protection to be effective?
If you have a ground wire then you do want to connect it but to answer your question, the GFCI will still function properly with no ground.
Darn, I need to install GFCI throughout the entire kitchen
You don’t need to change existing wiring. That’s for new installations
GFCI protection can be challenging to implement on multiwire branch circuits (MWBCs) due to the shared neutral. In a MWBC, two hot wires share a common neutral. When a GFCI monitors the current on the hot and neutral conductors, it may not accurately detect ground faults because the current on the neutral is the algebraic sum of the currents on both hot wires. I guess you could get away with using a double pole GFCI breaker for both phases.
thanks fo rthe info I jave a GFI plug green light is on but no power is the plug no good and do I need to replace it? thanks Robert from Canada
That's an unusual problem. Check to make sure it's wired correctly first and that there are no loose connections. If everything looks good replace the receptacle.
It has probably failed- depending on when it was made as more recent GFCIs are designed to interrupt power delivery when they no longer provide GFCI protection.
some of them have a light to tell you outlet is on while others have one to tell you it has died
What section of code is this GFCI change under in the 2023 NFPA 70?
(210.8 A-F) GFCI Protection for Personnel. (210.13) (230.95) GFCI Protection for Equipment. Other Articles for GFCI and SPGFCI are scattered throughout the code. (410.184) (680.5) (680.44) (690.41) probably a few more I can't remember.
What if I have kitchen outlets that all are connected to a GFCI, do I need to replace all of them to be GFCI now
The kitchen receptacles do require GFCI protection. You can do that with individual GFCI receptacles, GFCI breakers, or a few GFCI receptacles with standard receptacles wire to the load side of them. I like installing all GFCI receptacles because I think it looks better and its right there if it needs to be reset.
You are not required to ground GFCIS if there is no equipment ground conductor in the receptacle box NEC 406.4d 2b.
I know..
i thought they had an exception for dedicated refrigerator outlets so you don't lose all the contents of refrigerator from a nuisance trip.
my neighbor redid their kitchen and the inspector wanted gfci breakers not outlets in the kitchen why is he asking for that is that in new code is the breaker better than the outlet?
The refrigerator on GFCI is new in 2023. I don't like it either and i'm sure a lot of people are going to be changing them out after inspection.
They were forced to put a few of these in my new shop building in order to get power hooked up. Even though the building has no water. The problem is that on a 15 amp breaker, about 80% of the time my saw will trip the GFCI when it starts up, even though it is less than 15 amps. The real problem is that when my wife and I were out of town for a week there was an interruption in our power and, though the power came back on, All of the GFCI outlets tripped, and two of them were connected to a freezer. We lost a lot of food.
My solution: Removed and replaced with normal outlets. Problems solved. I'll live - probably. Our outlets are as safe as they were when I was in high school (early 70's). And we built our own home at that time. i.e. it has no GFCI outlets and nobody has died yet.😁
The ones in our home trip from time to time, but that's not really a problem because they are not on the circuit attached to our refer, and we don't plug any high power appliances. Not worth the hassle of replacing them. They are simply not acceptable in the shop building.
I hear you. We want to be safe but we need the circuits to work. Power surges can damage a GFCI since they do have electronics. One of the reasons why surge suppressors are now required by code. Power saws are inductive loads which means they have inrush each time they start. That inrush can be as high as six times the running load for a short duration. My table saw draws about 12A while cutting but will trip a 15A breaker every time it starts. I have to remember to plug it into a 20A circuit.
@@BackyardMaine
So surge protectors are the fix for the GFCI problem?
I was hoping he was going to explain HOW they work. I get it that when there is an imbalance they trip, but how does the device actually detect the imbalance.
The GFCIs use a CT (current transformer) to monitor the hot and neutral together which will detect zero amps during normal operation. The CT is monitored by an IC board (integrated circuit board) and when it detects ~5mA or more the IC opens a relay which trips the GFCI which interrupts the flow of current to the fault. I hope this helps.
@@BackyardMaine thanks. IC board makes sense. Wonder if that’s how they were making them back in 1975.
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Хорошее видео.
..so I'll have a heart attack before a light bulp turns on?. Very interesting 😁
Andre Spring
Please get it right, even though it doesn’t matter to this discussion. A 100 watt light bulb in the US draws about 800ma, not 1000.
I can do the math but thanks.
Why can't we just use GFCI circuit breakers. it is much easier to upgrade them instead of all the receptacles in a house. It is also hard to find heavy dusty GFCI receptacles.
Yes, GFCI breakers are also a code compliant option. Many people prefer the point of use option for a few reasons. 1- The receptacles are more convenient to reset rather than having to go to the panel. 2- The receptacles are a whole lot cheaper than the breakers. 3- The breaker will protect the whole circuit which isn't always desirable.
Thank you for the clarification of the code.
In some projects a large number of receptacles may need to be updated (e.g. basement). In this situation upgrade of the circuit breaker may be cheaper. A 14A receptacles is about $15-20. A circuit breaker is about $50.
It is also hard to find heavy-duty spec of GFCI receptacles. There are hospital-grade GFCIs but they are very $$$. At the same time you can find an industrial-grade Leviton for $7-8. GFCI circuit breakers may also be an option if outlet endurance and reliability are desired by the customer.
most of the time you just put one gfi outlet in first one on that circuit and then feed rest of outlets off of that gfis output terminals so you only need to buy one GFI not every outlet@@aparamon
So every outlet now basically which no houses will meet this code unless built new. Also, GFIC's are a massive pain in rear as they are often faulty out of the pack and seem to trip when u breath anywhere near them
There are still many areas in the home that don't require GFCIs. I'm not experiencing any issues with the ones I have purchased. I have had an occasional faulty device but less than 1 in 100 and for reference, I haven't had one fail in my own home since they were installed 25 years ago.
@@BackyardMaine I've had at least 2 fail out of pack for me and have seen several professionally installed GFCI's continually trip and have to be removed, or wiring rerouting to avoid using one
Heard from several 40yr+ electrical veterans also dislike them for reasons above.
@@BackyardMaine thank u for video tho regardless as some people may like using them i'm sure
Can you use more than one GFCI coming from one breaker and what about the ground wires, use them or not or either or?
A range requires GFCI? where do you even get a GFCI receptacle for a range oven?
ANd now a refrigerator and microwave require gfci? These are devices known to trip GFCI's all the time just from regular use. this is a bad decision and I am completely against it. YOu just know electricians will comply for the inspectors then change them out after everything passes.
GFCI protection for the range would be installed at the panel as a breaker. I get that the GFCIs do save lives but there is also the practicality of the device to consider. I don't wind the range or even a microwave but refrigerators and freezers are a mistake in my opinion. Once people start loosing a freezer or refrigerator full of food because they didn't realize the GFCI tripped they will be changing them out.
@@BackyardMaine exactly. and i think the same will go with microwaves and stove/range.
Refrigerant compressors can trip GFCI’s on start up. AC’s and heat pumps are also required now. Homeowners are going to love paying for a service call just for a tripped gfci
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I don't understand these comments??
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the recent code changes for GFCI and AFCI are going way overboard in my opinion
I don’t disagree.
They are being driven by circuit breaker manufacturers looking to increase their sales of both. And trying to drive business away from receptacle manufacturers.
another fine example of government stupid overreach I will never put a refrigerator on a GFI it is ridiculous
I want to know how much bribe money is paid out by manufacturers to get their products, often causing loss of food , water control when it comes to Arc fault devices,
They are based on the number of electrocution deaths that could have been prevented. Children died because the code changes were not yet in place.
Jeez. Why not just make everything require GFCI from the very beginning? Why play this game of slowly requiring more and more locations to be protected?
I get that.. Probably the end game will be everything GFCI and AFCI protected.
Why not make everything GFCI? I mean, geez.
Imagine having a GFCI on an Air conditioner/Air heater system?