They look amazing Joseph nice work, I normally think massive horn speakers look ridiculous often hideous but these... nice! I hope they let you take some measurements in place with the new drivers.
AER speaker units are very much like the high end of the Lowther range. They are directly derived from the Lowther units and critical proportions and ratios remain the same. The current expert for frontloared Lowther/AER/Voigt-style fullrange drivers, especially in frontloared horns, is BD-Design. They make the Oris horns, but also have extensive knowledge of the original Voigt-designed horns. I have heard various Lowther drive units and AER drive units and the AERs have successfully maintained the Lowther strong points, and have advanced in others. Long story short, there are plenty of frequency response curves and TSPs of Lowther drivers online, which may benefit you.
The AER is an excellent driver even in a regular bass reflex cabinet. It does require some correction with a passive network but once dialed in it is up there with the best fullrange drivers. The only aspect lacking is soundstage width…but that’s a pretty big omission in my books.
Hi, the plans are offered on my site in the form of 3D CAD model and drawings. I also do custom designs. Joseph_crowe@josephcrowe.com josephcrowe.com/products/3d-cad-files-for-horn-no-1548
Yes it’s 4Hp. It’s amazing. The only thing I don’t like is I am limited to 250ipm for cutting, but it does rapid at 600ipm. It just can’t handle abrupt direction changes I guess.
@@JosephCrowesDIYSpeakerBuilding Are you limited to 250ipm because the frame is not rigid enough? I have lowered acceleration settings on my machine and it helped a great deal with how smooth it's running. Not much loss in speed.
@@JosephCrowesDIYSpeakerBuilding Cool! So open baffle needs lower strenght motor. Out of curiosity, what are the field coil requirements iin terms of voltage and current to establish a magnetic field comparable to neodymium permanent magnet? I have seen old Jensen with 500ohms coil but I don't know much beyond that.
Hi Troy, that's the right way, getting big! But allow me one critique. Instead using a wideband speaker for the whole range try to integrate for higher frequencies one of your decent horn tweeters. In a coaxial position, simply spoken just centered. YesI know it would be completely different to what the customer ordered 😁 Kind regards, Elysio 😉
Waveguide is just a marketing term (in audio at least) to avoid association with crappy diffraction horns of the past. I prefer to use the term horn because all of my products provide substantial gain as well as pattern control, and not just pattern control alone. There’s no standard or authority on the subject to provide clarity, and the terms get used interchangeably for the most part. I prefer to categorize horns that were used in the past to provide gain only as “classic horns” which are characterized by there small mouth area in relation to the depth of the horn.
The better option is to use a lower QTS driver with the proper rising response. Then add a bass solution to achieve the target response. Everything will then even out.
That looks great. Inspired by Rullit.. AER is much natural sounding to me than the Voxativ competitor.. But yeah with FC drivers you have more leeway. EMS from France, etc.. Have you ever tried a similar large horn for the Lamar 555 driver??
Yes I have, the Lamar on a big horn like this offers excellent musicality. The sound is palpably in the room which is difficult to achieve with anything other than a big horn like this.
this speaker is not going to beat a plastic boombox on price / performance ratio but i do agree that an optimal speaker is going to look something like this in terms of having wide but controlled dispersion ... on the other hand i think line array would be the preferred way to control vertical dispersion, which doesn't need to be as wide ... i think the future of speakers may be cardioid enclosures, which is similar to a dipole but instead of nulls to the sides it has a null in the back ... it's currently all the rage in prosound but implemented there actively using regular enclosures ... i think with the right enclosure design it can be implemented passively with no additional drivers ... a well executed cardioid line array would be the holy grail of performance with no reflections from floor, ceiling or rear wall and with wide but controlled horizontal dispersion ... throw some sound dampening on the remaining walls and i think imaging would be pretty interesting ... i wanted to build something like that but it would have required total commitment ( like in a nuclear war ) and i would have to be sure that it would be absolutely life changing and i just wasn't sure that having the best speaker in the world was worth going bankrupt for ...
@@JosephCrowesDIYSpeakerBuilding you can get down to about 250 hz with waveguides, 80 hz - 250 hz with cardioid array, and below 80 hz with distributed subwoofers ( geddes style ). this i think is the best that we can realistically do to minimize negative room effects at all frequencies.
Wow, awesome. Thanks for sharing!
Only direct front loaded... Good job Joseph.
Very cool project Joseph :)
Wow brilliant , similar to JBL 4732 FL Horn for Cinema. Very impressive build.
Thanks for posting , very informative and great work ..
Regards
one of the best looking out there...
down to what fq does something that size still offer increased efficiency for the drivers?
They look amazing Joseph nice work, I normally think massive horn speakers look ridiculous often hideous but these... nice!
I hope they let you take some measurements in place with the new drivers.
Soon
It's lovely and that's some fine workmanship too. Having said that, with such a large structure, I'd have put more focus on low bass performance,
This is crazy for an open baffle ! But do u really get the low end out of an average open baffle ?
Very cool build. What about off axis measurements? 15,30,45 degrees etc?
A measurement like this on this size horn should be done outdoors, which unfortunately I wasn’t able to do.
AER speaker units are very much like the high end of the Lowther range. They are directly derived from the Lowther units and critical proportions and ratios remain the same. The current expert for frontloared Lowther/AER/Voigt-style fullrange drivers, especially in frontloared horns, is BD-Design. They make the Oris horns, but also have extensive knowledge of the original Voigt-designed horns. I have heard various Lowther drive units and AER drive units and the AERs have successfully maintained the Lowther strong points, and have advanced in others.
Long story short, there are plenty of frequency response curves and TSPs of Lowther drivers online, which may benefit you.
The AER is an excellent driver even in a regular bass reflex cabinet. It does require some correction with a passive network but once dialed in it is up there with the best fullrange drivers. The only aspect lacking is soundstage width…but that’s a pretty big omission in my books.
Impressive! Must have used a few board feet of wood to build those 😁
How do you manage harmonics in horn designs? Im looking to diy my own system
Hello do you offer plans? or could you design a plan for a bi radial horn? can you advise on a route to communicate?
Hi, the plans are offered on my site in the form of 3D CAD model and drawings. I also do custom designs. Joseph_crowe@josephcrowe.com
josephcrowe.com/products/3d-cad-files-for-horn-no-1548
Very nice woodworking. Do you worry about diffraction effects with such a large horn?
Potentially below 2kHz, but I wasn’t able to get acoustical measurements that would reveal this. Subjectively the customer couldn’t be happier.
Nice work!
Is this 4hp spindle?
I ended up ordering 85.hp but have to wait for till mid Jul.
Yes it’s 4Hp. It’s amazing. The only thing I don’t like is I am limited to 250ipm for cutting, but it does rapid at 600ipm. It just can’t handle abrupt direction changes I guess.
@@JosephCrowesDIYSpeakerBuilding Are you limited to 250ipm because the frame is not rigid enough?
I have lowered acceleration settings on my machine and it helped a great deal with how smooth it's running. Not much loss in speed.
How would a driver wth field coil allow to change the Qts? Can you explain?
By reducing the voltage through the field coil the motor strength reduces which brings up the QTS.
@@JosephCrowesDIYSpeakerBuilding Cool! So open baffle needs lower strenght motor. Out of curiosity, what are the field coil requirements iin terms of voltage and current to establish a magnetic field comparable to neodymium permanent magnet? I have seen old Jensen with 500ohms coil but I don't know much beyond that.
Hi Troy, that's the right way, getting big! But allow me one critique. Instead using a wideband speaker for the whole range try to integrate for higher frequencies one of your decent horn tweeters. In a coaxial position, simply spoken just centered. YesI know it would be completely different to what the customer ordered 😁 Kind regards, Elysio 😉
How much would it cost to buy plans an have this made ?
The plans are available to purchase on my site.
josephcrowe.com/products/3d-cad-files-for-horn-no-1548
Is that a horn or a wave guide , i dont see how you are getting compression for it to be considered a horn ..?
Waveguide is just a marketing term (in audio at least) to avoid association with crappy diffraction horns of the past. I prefer to use the term horn because all of my products provide substantial gain as well as pattern control, and not just pattern control alone. There’s no standard or authority on the subject to provide clarity, and the terms get used interchangeably for the most part. I prefer to categorize horns that were used in the past to provide gain only as “classic horns” which are characterized by there small mouth area in relation to the depth of the horn.
Wouldn't a 1. order highpass pretty much fix the the sub 400Hz bump and lower the distortion?
The better option is to use a lower QTS driver with the proper rising response. Then add a bass solution to achieve the target response. Everything will then even out.
That looks great. Inspired by Rullit.. AER is much natural sounding to me than the Voxativ competitor.. But yeah with FC drivers you have more leeway. EMS from France, etc..
Have you ever tried a similar large horn for the Lamar 555 driver??
Yes I have, the Lamar on a big horn like this offers excellent musicality. The sound is palpably in the room which is difficult to achieve with anything other than a big horn like this.
Great! I hope you could feature the Lamar-BigHorn here on YT one day, maybe as part of a speaker system..@@JosephCrowesDIYSpeakerBuilding
this speaker is not going to beat a plastic boombox on price / performance ratio but i do agree that an optimal speaker is going to look something like this in terms of having wide but controlled dispersion ... on the other hand i think line array would be the preferred way to control vertical dispersion, which doesn't need to be as wide ... i think the future of speakers may be cardioid enclosures, which is similar to a dipole but instead of nulls to the sides it has a null in the back ... it's currently all the rage in prosound but implemented there actively using regular enclosures ... i think with the right enclosure design it can be implemented passively with no additional drivers ... a well executed cardioid line array would be the holy grail of performance with no reflections from floor, ceiling or rear wall and with wide but controlled horizontal dispersion ... throw some sound dampening on the remaining walls and i think imaging would be pretty interesting ... i wanted to build something like that but it would have required total commitment ( like in a nuclear war ) and i would have to be sure that it would be absolutely life changing and i just wasn't sure that having the best speaker in the world was worth going bankrupt for ...
Controlled directivity down to 400Hz is where things really start to come together. This should be a worthy goal for anyone.
@@JosephCrowesDIYSpeakerBuilding you can get down to about 250 hz with waveguides, 80 hz - 250 hz with cardioid array, and below 80 hz with distributed subwoofers ( geddes style ). this i think is the best that we can realistically do to minimize negative room effects at all frequencies.