My earlier video, which was the basis for this one, goes through all of that: Powerstroke 6.0L Electrical System Negative / Grounding locations th-cam.com/video/QYM-KD5vNWM/w-d-xo.html
Thank you! I just spent the weekend replacing the frame mounted batteries on my ‘06 E-350 6.0. The positive wire terminals were toast and I had to splice in a new segment. While I was at it i decided to review all the negative mounting points. Your videos are a god send! Thank you, thank you and THANK YOU!
How do you like that Extech MA120? I'm wanting the same tool to do this exact job (balancing cable loads) on different vehicles. I'm wondering if there is a different one you would recommend now that you've had plenty of time & experience with it. Would you spend more for higher accuracy or less money on it if this is all you planned to do with it?
I haven't used it to its potential. I would not spend more for a similar one, but then, my needs are mostly in the automotive diagnostic area. For what I do, its worked well. I have a number of products for the same company and all have been good.
I would wonder how they were failing and if there was a short in the wiring that might cause them to fail if the FICMs came from good sources. Ground 101 Is the FICM ground, which shares one of the two PCM grounds. I would also do G100, as that is the second PCM ground, and you don't want a floating voltage between the two. This is a picture of there location. drive.google.com/file/d/1ysrD6HinNwEXdSG6dTjtod4M8xhNkFHX/view?usp=share_link
I’m very impressed with this mans knowledge that he has imparted to everyone on TH-cam. I came here because I was concerned about grounding issues to the transmission/frame that caused a fusing inside Ford 7.3 and 6.0 Powerstroke transmissions. I saw the video on PowerstrokeHelp, this is invaluable information!! Thanks for the great info. I will be taking care of these problems as I change out my batteries wiring and grounds to go with my new batteries I installed.
Thanks for the comment. Somewhere in the future I’m going to do a video on that. There’s no way for it to weld in a stock condition, but you create a potential if you install a connection between the frame and the ground. If the main and only one connection of the negative or ground at the front of the block (early recall), and you have the trans grounded, now you are going to send all the starting current through the trans. It’s why in the Ford body builders guide it specifically states to never install a ground to the trans. The typical reason for that area of the pump to weld is if the torque converter is not installed correctly when the trans and engine are reconnected.
Thank you for posting these videos, it has been very helpful to me. I have a 2005 6.0L with the bullet proof oil kit, it is running great at 100,000 miles. I am going through the truck for a 100,000 mile maintenance and restoration project and discovered extreme galvanic corrosion on the (bulletproof) iron shroud that protects the (bulletproof) oil filter in the driver front wheel well. On close inspection, the corrosion starts on the shroud at the frame attach point and runs across the surface in a straight line to the bumper attach point. Electrically, this provides a significant path for electrical currents to pass between the frame and the body. This did not make any sense to me until I learned from the videos about the major current flows going between the body, frame. and motor. Easy fix for the shroud, clean up corrosion and install nylon washers at the attach points to electrically isolate the shroud from the frame and the bumper. Definitely staying tuned for your next video, thanks again.
@ 0:20 The lower ground / bonding cable that connects the body to the frame under the passenger floorboard is Ford part # FU2Z-19A095-A in case anyone was wanting to replace theirs
I have 05 250 6.0 had bad batteries try to charge overnight to drive to auto parts store truck died jumped it off to make it back home an battery light was on I replaced 2 batteries new now battery light stays on if I floor the truck the light goes off what could be my issue
Most likely, the alternator is not working correctly. The "battery" light doesn't tell the batteries are bad; it indicates the alternator output voltage is lower than the battery voltage. The batteries may have been bad from chronic undercharge. You should review an early video of mine about the situation. th-cam.com/video/mEbbPwa_-oc/w-d-xo.html If one or more of the diodes is burned out, it would take a high rpm for the alternator to output full amps and support a high voltage.
So now I see why it is a good idea to add a cable from the driver side "-" terminal to the Minor PCM Harness ground, which if I were to upgrade to a higher output alternator (e.g. 230-240 amp), I should run at least a 6 ga cable, not 8 ga as suggested here. I hope I got that right.
All good info,, But I think the main problem is the one factory ground at the right front of the engine. I install a secondary ground wire on every 6.0 trans I rebuild,,I buy a 4 foot long 4 guage ground wire from the auto parts store about 10.00,, I connect it to the drivers side motor mount bolt,then fish it up to the drivers side negative battery connection. No more come backs with destroyed front pumps.
That was a solution I used in the balancing the batteries video, eliminating two connections of resistance in getting the drivers battery to work harder. This is an addition to that which brings the voltage to the ground plane a little more effectively.
Fantastic well analyzed video. I wish FOrd would have hired you during the design of these trucks and SUV's. Had they done so, we would have never had those weak battery and ficm killing 110a stock alternators!
Awesome information but a bit over my head, is there any way you could provide a shopping list of parts used and where you installed each of the cables? ( please dumb it down for me) Lol. I need to replace my alternator and I don't want to burn anything up by not upgrading the right wiring.
David, you might want to check out this thread at FTE where I usually hang. www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1543839-grounding-negative-side-work-3.html#post18226155
No, it would be a little less draw on the batteries and slightly higher voltage, but that would be hard to see if just one. A bad glow plug should cause a code.
I’ve got a p0863 code so I think I’ve got a glow plug out, I got new batteries and a new alternator and still can’t get my voltage over it’s average 13.6-13.8
@@jackkawa7 You do have some drop in the harness and how the PCM reports, the PCM part you can't do anything about. By SAE standards, alternator output should only be 13.8v when the engine is hot.
If you see a consistent disparity in battery life where the pass batt fails early, the added positive cable between the batteries and a more direct cable from the driver's frame to the block will address that. For overall voltage, cleaning all the grounds and adding an 8 to 6ga ground cable from the driver's battery negative to the FICM and PCM ground points at the fender and firewall improved that for me.
So I’ve been messing with this a bit and what im not understanding is how many actual wires you added 1. Drivers frame to block 2. A cable going to FICM ground on fender 3. Another cable from battery to fire wall ? So 3 added wires alone on the drivers side? What about the ground in front on drivers side right by the light?Or did you run a cable to fender then another one from same point on fender to fire wall?Sorry for bugging you about it so much I’m just trying to understand ....
I have a Leece-Neville 230 amp alternator in my 2006 6.0. When i start the truck it reads 12.5 volts and climbs up to 13.7-14 volts is this normal? it seems like you have much higher voltage than me. also when i start the truck sometimes the idle fluctuates down about 100 rpm and then a second later its back to normal and when the rpm drops the voltage jumps from ~13.5 to 11 or 12 volts then back to 13+. The idle fluctuates like this until the truck has warmed up for a minute or two. Does anyone have any ideas about what that could be?
Visit my video about the 230a, you are experiencing the GPCM tug of war. The voltage dpends where you are taking it from. Many of my tests are taken off the battery, which will be higher than any monitoring from the OBD2 port. Plugs I've gone through all the ground and harness connections on the truck, another video.
WOW!! Man you got more information than I ever dreamed to find but I need help. I have had some issues with charging in general and now my 2004 Powerstroke in and F350 Super Duty SRW needs some advice. She has dual alternators (lower is 300AMP and upper is Sinister 250AMP HD) But wiring is a major question. I could really use your knowledge in this area and have loved your videos....they just don't reference dual alternators. Do you have a site or a way I can contact you? Bill
@@toomanytoys I guess as a retired military member I have an innate sense of "bigger is better" programmed into my brain...a curse I guess. Anyway with the obvious $$ I have tied up in two new alternators, two new Optima yellow tops, and a Sinister Diesel 58V FICM, I was just looking for someone to tell me what gauge wire to use where as I install the new stuff so that I have as close to an optimal endpoint as I can get. You are so well educated in this I thought you may tell me for example, go to 1 ga wire at the battery neg to grounding point and go to Alternators with x gauge, etc...I dont know where to go and dont want to make a stupid mistake. And by the way thanks a million for the quick response. If you want to send direct to me, I use gmail and my user name is SPURFLHR. Thanks again, Bill
@@spurflhr Bill, If you didn't realize, FTE is www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum107/ Thats a tremendous amount of amp potential. Everything depends on the length of the wire. Given a 300 amp flow at 14.4 volts, at 24" a 2ga cable would have a voltage drop of 0.1 volts, a 2/0 cable 0.05 volts. If your cable length was 48", 300 amp flow at 14.4v the 2ga would drop 0.2v and a 2/0 cable 0.1v. A stock Powerstroke at 30 seconds right after startup has the potential need of 205 amps for full battery recharge, glow plugs, and every electronic device you can turn on with the exception of a trailer. Once the glow plugs turn off the maximum potential demand stock is 110 amps.
this is awesome. all your videos contain so much useful information. I wish you were in the desert southwest area so you could help me work on my 6.0 lol
Great information. When it comes to electrical systems, I am no expert and much of what you are explaining is hard to follow. Any way you can break all your recommended changes into a short video? Thank you for the work you have done.
Yeah, I'm not the guy who says "Just do this", I need to show details. You should have seen my R&D test reports which is why the front page always had the test objective and 1/2 page conclusion. Maybe I should do that with videos, too.
Excellent detail and information. Do you have a document that shows factory ground locations?
Fighting an intermittent no crank situation…
2007 f350 6.0 lariat
My earlier video, which was the basis for this one, goes through all of that: Powerstroke 6.0L Electrical System Negative / Grounding locations
th-cam.com/video/QYM-KD5vNWM/w-d-xo.html
Thank you! I just spent the weekend replacing the frame mounted batteries on my ‘06 E-350 6.0. The positive wire terminals were toast and I had to splice in a new segment. While I was at it i decided to review all the negative mounting points. Your videos are a god send! Thank you, thank you and THANK YOU!
Glad to help where I can. They sure get blasted with everything under there.
How do you like that Extech MA120? I'm wanting the same tool to do this exact job (balancing cable loads) on different vehicles. I'm wondering if there is a different one you would recommend now that you've had plenty of time & experience with it.
Would you spend more for higher accuracy or less money on it if this is all you planned to do with it?
I haven't used it to its potential. I would not spend more for a similar one, but then, my needs are mostly in the automotive diagnostic area. For what I do, its worked well. I have a number of products for the same company and all have been good.
This is one of the most informative, well put together diagnostic videos I have ever seen on youtube. Thank you .
Thank you for your comment, Rob.
I enjoy your very informative TH-cam videos thank you
Glad you like them!
I have had THREE FICM failures recently. Which ground wire do you see as most critical?
I would wonder how they were failing and if there was a short in the wiring that might cause them to fail if the FICMs came from good sources.
Ground 101 Is the FICM ground, which shares one of the two PCM grounds. I would also do G100, as that is the second PCM ground, and you don't want a floating voltage between the two.
This is a picture of there location.
drive.google.com/file/d/1ysrD6HinNwEXdSG6dTjtod4M8xhNkFHX/view?usp=share_link
Its nice man. Less paperwork
I’m very impressed with this mans knowledge that he has imparted to everyone on TH-cam. I came here because I was concerned about grounding issues to the transmission/frame that caused a fusing inside Ford 7.3 and 6.0 Powerstroke transmissions. I saw the video on PowerstrokeHelp, this is invaluable information!! Thanks for the great info. I will be taking care of these problems as I change out my batteries wiring and grounds to go with my new batteries I installed.
Thanks for the comment.
Somewhere in the future I’m going to do a video on that. There’s no way for it to weld in a stock condition, but you create a potential if you install a connection between the frame and the ground. If the main and only one connection of the negative or ground at the front of the block (early recall), and you have the trans grounded, now you are going to send all the starting current through the trans. It’s why in the Ford body builders guide it specifically states to never install a ground to the trans.
The typical reason for that area of the pump to weld is if the torque converter is not installed correctly when the trans and engine are reconnected.
Thank you for posting these videos, it has been very helpful to me. I have a 2005 6.0L with the bullet proof oil kit, it is running great at 100,000 miles. I am going through the truck for a 100,000 mile maintenance and restoration project and discovered extreme galvanic corrosion on the (bulletproof) iron shroud that protects the (bulletproof) oil filter in the driver front wheel well. On close inspection, the corrosion starts on the shroud at the frame attach point and runs across the surface in a straight line to the bumper attach point. Electrically, this provides a significant path for electrical currents to pass between the frame and the body. This did not make any sense to me until I learned from the videos about the major current flows going between the body, frame. and motor. Easy fix for the shroud, clean up corrosion and install nylon washers at the attach points to electrically isolate the shroud from the frame and the bumper. Definitely staying tuned for your next video, thanks again.
@ 0:20 The lower ground / bonding cable that connects the body to the frame under the passenger floorboard is Ford part # FU2Z-19A095-A in case anyone was wanting to replace theirs
I believe you have transposed two of the figures. It should be F2UZ-19A095A
Stumbled across this comment after replacing mine with a 10ga wire. It was green like in this video. I want original to avoid problems. Thank you.
I have 05 250 6.0 had bad batteries try to charge overnight to drive to auto parts store truck died jumped it off to make it back home an battery light was on I replaced 2 batteries new now battery light stays on if I floor the truck the light goes off what could be my issue
Most likely, the alternator is not working correctly. The "battery" light doesn't tell the batteries are bad; it indicates the alternator output voltage is lower than the battery voltage. The batteries may have been bad from chronic undercharge. You should review an early video of mine about the situation.
th-cam.com/video/mEbbPwa_-oc/w-d-xo.html
If one or more of the diodes is burned out, it would take a high rpm for the alternator to output full amps and support a high voltage.
@@toomanytoys thank I am getting a new alternator today
So now I see why it is a good idea to add a cable from the driver side "-" terminal to the Minor PCM Harness ground, which if I were to upgrade to a higher output alternator (e.g. 230-240 amp), I should run at least a 6 ga cable, not 8 ga as suggested here. I hope I got that right.
Replying in the Grounding locations video.
All good info,,
But I think the main problem is the one factory ground at the right front of the engine.
I install a secondary ground wire on every 6.0 trans I rebuild,,I buy a 4 foot long 4 guage ground wire from the auto parts store about 10.00,,
I connect it to the drivers side motor mount bolt,then fish it up to the drivers side negative battery connection. No more come backs with destroyed front pumps.
That was a solution I used in the balancing the batteries video, eliminating two connections of resistance in getting the drivers battery to work harder. This is an addition to that which brings the voltage to the ground plane a little more effectively.
Fantastic well analyzed video. I wish FOrd would have hired you during the design of these trucks and SUV's. Had they done so, we would have never had those weak battery and ficm killing 110a stock alternators!
Awesome information but a bit over my head, is there any way you could provide a shopping list of parts used and where you installed each of the cables? ( please dumb it down for me) Lol. I need to replace my alternator and I don't want to burn anything up by not upgrading the right wiring.
David, you might want to check out this thread at FTE where I usually hang.
www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1543839-grounding-negative-side-work-3.html#post18226155
Can a bad glow plug cause lower voltage?
No, it would be a little less draw on the batteries and slightly higher voltage, but that would be hard to see if just one. A bad glow plug should cause a code.
I’ve got a p0863 code so I think I’ve got a glow plug out, I got new batteries and a new alternator and still can’t get my voltage over it’s average 13.6-13.8
@@jackkawa7 The voltage reading from where?
My sct x4 tuner
@@jackkawa7 You do have some drop in the harness and how the PCM reports, the PCM part you can't do anything about. By SAE standards, alternator output should only be 13.8v when the engine is hot.
Hey buddy so at this point what did you exactly add?The driver side frame to block...What else exactly?
Are you asking me or someone else. I'm not Bill.
TooManyToys haha it was my auto spell check crap, I actually meant BUDDY, I swear I hate autocorrect sorry bout that
If you see a consistent disparity in battery life where the pass batt fails early, the added positive cable between the batteries and a more direct cable from the driver's frame to the block will address that. For overall voltage, cleaning all the grounds and adding an 8 to 6ga ground cable from the driver's battery negative to the FICM and PCM ground points at the fender and firewall improved that for me.
TooManyToys thank you good sir really appreciate the time you spent figuring that out keep up the good work
So I’ve been messing with this a bit and what im not understanding is how many actual wires you added 1. Drivers frame to block 2. A cable going to FICM ground on fender 3. Another cable from battery to fire wall ? So 3 added wires alone on the drivers side? What about the ground in front on drivers side right by the light?Or did you run a cable to fender then another one from same point on fender to fire wall?Sorry for bugging you about it so much I’m just trying to understand ....
👍👍
Great videos and really good information! Thank you so much for taking the time and expense creating these videos.
I have a Leece-Neville 230 amp alternator in my 2006 6.0. When i start the truck it reads 12.5 volts and climbs up to 13.7-14 volts is this normal? it seems like you have much higher voltage than me. also when i start the truck sometimes the idle fluctuates down about 100 rpm and then a second later its back to normal and when the rpm drops the voltage jumps from ~13.5 to 11 or 12 volts then back to 13+. The idle fluctuates like this until the truck has warmed up for a minute or two. Does anyone have any ideas about what that could be?
Visit my video about the 230a, you are experiencing the GPCM tug of war.
The voltage dpends where you are taking it from. Many of my tests are taken off the battery, which will be higher than any monitoring from the OBD2 port. Plugs I've gone through all the ground and harness connections on the truck, another video.
WOW!! Man you got more information than I ever dreamed to find but I need help. I have had some issues with charging in general and now my 2004 Powerstroke in and F350 Super Duty SRW needs some advice. She has dual alternators (lower is 300AMP and upper is Sinister 250AMP HD) But wiring is a major question. I could really use your knowledge in this area and have loved your videos....they just don't reference dual alternators. Do you have a site or a way I can contact you? Bill
Bill, I don't have access to a dual alternator truck. I hang irregularly at FTE in the 6.0L forum and you could post there.
@@toomanytoys I guess as a retired military member I have an innate sense of "bigger is better" programmed into my brain...a curse I guess. Anyway with the obvious $$ I have tied up in two new alternators, two new Optima yellow tops, and a Sinister Diesel 58V FICM, I was just looking for someone to tell me what gauge wire to use where as I install the new stuff so that I have as close to an optimal endpoint as I can get. You are so well educated in this I thought you may tell me for example, go to 1 ga wire at the battery neg to grounding point and go to Alternators with x gauge, etc...I dont know where to go and dont want to make a stupid mistake. And by the way thanks a million for the quick response. If you want to send direct to me, I use gmail and my user name is SPURFLHR. Thanks again, Bill
@@spurflhr Bill, If you didn't realize, FTE is www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum107/
Thats a tremendous amount of amp potential. Everything depends on the length of the wire. Given a 300 amp flow at 14.4 volts, at 24" a 2ga cable would have a voltage drop of 0.1 volts, a 2/0 cable 0.05 volts.
If your cable length was 48", 300 amp flow at 14.4v the 2ga would drop 0.2v and a 2/0 cable 0.1v.
A stock Powerstroke at 30 seconds right after startup has the potential need of 205 amps for full battery recharge, glow plugs, and every electronic device you can turn on with the exception of a trailer. Once the glow plugs turn off the maximum potential demand stock is 110 amps.
this is awesome. all your videos contain so much useful information. I wish you were in the desert southwest area so you could help me work on my 6.0 lol
This is great. Thank you
Thanks Marc.
This is engineering porn right here!
Love it! This is 6.0 game changer information!
Great information. When it comes to electrical systems, I am no expert and much of what you are explaining is hard to follow. Any way you can break all your recommended changes into a short video? Thank you for the work you have done.
Curtis Anderson hey bud look up at my conversation with him he dumbs it down for me, he’s the man absolute gentleman
Information overload!
Lol
Yeah, I'm not the guy who says "Just do this", I need to show details. You should have seen my R&D test reports which is why the front page always had the test objective and 1/2 page conclusion. Maybe I should do that with videos, too.