Mass Effect 3: The Illusive Man Confrontation (Paragon)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มี.ค. 2012
- The last conversation with the Illusive Man on the Citadel; paragon choices.
To unlock all of these dialogue checks, make sure you've taken paragon/renegade options every time you've encountered the Illusive Man: on Mars, Thessia, and the Cerberus base.
Imported save; RPG mode. - เกม
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I just realized, this is the first time shepherd met the illusive man face to face.
nope this isn't even real
@@MistahJay7 Saddly none of this is real, the whole scene when Shepard survives the Reaper laser shooting and so on are just an illusion, too bad Bioware never fixed their ending the way they were supposed to be.
@@Akko1 yeah the illusive man was suppose to husk out like Saren did. But it never made it into the game. Also according to the bioware concept art, the illusive man was suppose to go through two more stages of visual indoctrination. A quarter of the final game was cut out from the point we captured the Cerberus station. The illusive man looked normal on the station then bam he doesn't on the citadel. This was actually only half of what his visual changers were suppose to be.
@@geronimo5537 I will never understand why not just finish the series giving us a proper DLC :(
@@Akko1 it is because bioware kicked half of the original team off the project and then kicked casey hudson off the project. which gave us the horrid andromeda. after just watching the old angry joe indoctrinate video, I realize it makes perfect since that mass effect 3 was not the end. It was simply shepard overcoming his indoctrination. Which would of left room for a mass effect 4 against the reapers and the impending doom of the galaxy that was supposed to be the original plot. lets hope now that casey hudson is back on the dev team for mass effect that we will get a mass effect 4 and true ending.
th-cam.com/video/ZZOyeFvnhiI/w-d-xo.html
Hats off to Martin Sheen for giving a great performance here.
cripplehawk Charm/Intimidate him at every encounter in me3
To bad the writing is awful. The illusive man is turned into a cliche power hungry puppet controlled by the reapers.
Arim Oh What would you’ve rather seen them do with TIM?
@@Jew-Gi-Oh_419 He meddled with powers he couldn’t possibly understand.
@@Jew-Gi-Oh_419 "A cliche power hungry puppet controlled by the Reapers." That's pretty much what he is and always was. The only point I'll disagree on is cliche. I think the Illusive Man genuinely believed all along, up until Shepherd forced him to confront that he was indoctrinated, he thought it was best for mankind to control the Reapers and turn them to our benefit. He just didn't tell us that when we were working for him.
* Shepard kicks him to make sure he doesn't revive like mecha-Saren *
Imagine if the Illusive man came back to life same as Saren as a final boss fight. 🤣😂
@@hawk66100Right. And Harbinger possesses him like Sovereign did with Saren.
I still love that the final boss of the series isnt a gunfight, its dialogue. Perfectly fitting of the franchise.
Exactly, just like the desperation is his voice when he says: "but I can!" Excellent character
It takes an excellent actor to play an excellent character :)
With the last bit of control he had, he regretted what the indoctrination did to his mind by saying "I tried Shepard".
❤❤️🩹💔
😢
always liked that he tried :)
Even though it wasn't under my control, I'll never recover from the fact that it was my bullet that killed Captain Anderson.
kirikakirikakirika it's admiral anderson
Harbinger did most of the job though
Honestly, it didn't bother me. I'd be rolling my eyes if Anderson died a one man army. You know, taking down hundreds of enemies before kicking the bucket? Anderson's not that kind of character. He's cool, but he's not that kind of cool.
@@rebel1717 He lead the resistance back on earth while your Shepard was partying in Citadel.
Eh, technically the illusive man fired the shot since he was controlling your body
"Bullshit. We destroy them, or they destroy us."
"Dead reapers is how we win it"
Saren: "Welcome to the club, TIM ol' buddy! We've got T-Shirts!"
*shirts read 'I Broke the Mind-Control of the Reapers and all I got was a Self-Inflicted Bullet-Wound to the Head and this Stupid T-Shirt.'*
T-shirts read "We'll bang OK"
That Damn mars mission. I selected option "You are deluded !" and i didn't get the final options to force illusive man to commit suicide on the citadel. To anyone else who is on mars mission, just select "You are wasting my time" in order to open paragon renegade responses on mars.
wish id known this, thanks for sharing.
That’s what you get for being a paragon weakling.
Yup. Chose right every other damn time but missed it so got two paragon checks and not the last one.
Played through again just now. In the Tim conversations i have chosen all of the paragon options except one in the last dialogue. I didn't get the paragon option but anderson lives as I shot Tim down before he could do any harm.
In the past I went full paragon and talked him to death, but now I kinda feel more satisfied, as the flow of the conversation went better. Paragon shep should tell people from time to time where their limits are.
Admiral Hackett summed up The Illusive Man's plan perfectly earlier in the game: He's wrong, dead Reapers are how we win this." That's the only way the Galaxy was ever going to survive.
The illusive Man was one of my favourite characters..... i thought he was very interesting and it would of been cool to learn more about his origin story...... he's that mad scientist that try's to do the right thing but knows he's screwed.....
+Landon Tokiwa There's a comic that deals with the Illusive Man's origins, definitely worth the read. masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Effect:_Evolution
I have read the comics! I recommend so..it even says his real name. He was an operative at one point before founding cerberus so he had combat experience and cunning. (I kno this old) but with teh release of legendary I was reminded to respond. His name is Jack Harper. ^^ go further with ut if you are still interested
@@LeoneLaTwerk2 Cerberus also started out as an Alliance black ops organization but then went rogue and cut ties with the Alliance.
He died as Jack Harper I guess that’s got a count for something right?
Earth...if only you could see it the way I do...it's so...perfect.
Underrated line.
Can we just appreciate Martin Sheen’s superb acting at 3:31 & 4:52? It’s surreal seeing a character with the ego and confidence of the Illusive Man breaking down like this.
"NO! I'm in control! No-one tells me what to do!" aaand just like that TIM turns into a teenager.
That is one of the things I hate about mass effect 3. Some of the characters are horribly written and ruined.
@@Jew-Gi-Oh_419 just imagine what ME3 could've been if Egotistical Assholes didnt hurry the game out of the door early. Mayb if Bioware were given more time then TIM wouldnt have been the sterotypical moustache twirling villain he was in ME3
Or it’s just the rambles of a control freak the Illusive Man is. People are more childish when everything they have and believe is called into question and taken away, even the thought drives people mad.
I mean, the man lost his fucking mind near the end. I doubt he can even barely form any of his own thoughts anymore.
Jake that’s indoctrination for you.
R.I.P to our great leader.
we can rebuild him. we have the technology.
he was cool in ME2
rest in peace my favorite bad guy lol if you can call him bad I meen he not really evil
@@merchant6562 yeah not evil at all he only experimented on humans, brainwashed his own troops, endangered the entire galaxy's existence along with humanity (...) yeah not evil at all /s
@@Solaxe he got indoctrinated
I like how he claims that he was saving humanity but his men killed all those innocent people on Mars, Eden Prime, and on many other planets.
i mean who cares about peasants anyway
Necessary.
it started out with 'the ends justifies the means',
And so you become willing to pay ever higher price for your goals.
"When we win, this will all be made right." you rationalize.
Except you never get there,
all you've done is digging ever deeper hole where you cannot get out,
and that treasure underneath you're digging for? Not there either, just lies you keep telling to yourself, 'hope' to sustain you.
In the end you're defeated.
Perhaps you're just a step away from final victory...
No. Truth is, you're doomed even from the start.
This kind of tragic failure story is actually quite common even in real life.
Thats what garrus is saying, people will kill 10 million lives just to save 10 billion more.
@@princeofsomnia7664 There is a big difference between making a difficult decision when you are forced into it, and deliberately following a path leading to such situations.
Apparently, the Illusive Man was supposed to take on a more monstrous form, but they simplified it into this to make it into a battle of will. After the monster Joker in Arkham Asylum, that is for the best. Dabbling in Reaper tech proved to be his downfall, and had he not, he could have helped change Cerberus for the better. Instead, he was naught but an unwilling puppet.
This was...powerful. Amazing, even. To see a man so corrupted by the reapers. The cold, calculating, Illusive Man reduced to this. Damn it Bioware, you made me cry for him.
This pretty much summits EA and Bioware in one clip.
Except that EA survived the fricking shot and has a gaping hole that tries to fill with loot-box money.
@@farenhaid13421 I think he means EA are the Reapers. TIM is Bioware and Shepard/Anderson are the fans.
@@RasenKamehamehaX100 truly much more accurate. EA is a machine, it’s sole purpose is to make money for its share holders, the share holders want more money, and if that ruins the company reputation enough to make sales go down? Then they’ll be the first to know, and sell accordingly, making a profit, while having milked all the studios for the most money in the shortest amount of time before selling. True original vision of capitalism requires moral investors, that is much forgotten by share holders (mostly banks) and the world suffers accordingly... Dev studios with passion and vision are forced into the hands of publishers for money to make their project a reality, just to get exploited as a consumable in the end by the same hand who made to grow to begin with. EA is terrible. Can’t imagine how incredibly disgusting all their NDA meetings with dev studio CEOs must be like...
I think the scenario fits better with Saren. Saren (Bioware) realizes his mistake and shoot himself only for the Reapers (EA) to take control of his corpse and turn him into a monster.
Illusive man: A man that is hard to find or capture.
But if you break down the syllables...
It sounds kind of like - ill - use - of - man -
Oh sh*t
*mind blown*
Wouldn't that be elusive man then? Illusive means deceptive, based on illusions. Which might also make him elusive, but they don't mean the same.
Martin Sheen wiped the floor with his performance in this scene! What a brilliant actor and voice actor!
Yeesh first Saren then TIM? History tends to repeat itself
And in Javik's cycle, similar thing happened too. They were betrayed by a Prothean faction who insist they could control the Reapers.
It's a sign of indoctination.
The same texture spreads over Shepard if you pick green or blue endings.
To know he probably had no choice or control over his actions...makes you feel kind of sorry for him. He is one of the best characters in videogame history.
Shepard logic :
Convince the Illusive Man not to control the Reapers.
Control the Reapers anyway...
Shepard of the past logic :
Convince Saren not to merge with the Reapers
Merge with the Reapers anyway
That because shep didn't realize that when using the catalyst those options were possible they just thought tim and care were dillusional
Alexis Those were the cheap excuses from both indoctrinated Saren and TIM to accomplish reapers' objectives: access to the citadel and sabotage. In fact, in the prothean cycle, there was a similar disident group (indoctrinated too) with the same excuse, complicating the cohesion of prothean resistance (indirectly favoring reapers' invason). It's a farce from the reaper pattern to convince the species about a supposely natural conflict from their own inside, from society. Controlled disidence, a theater actuation with mindless puppets. Such as it happens in the real world, with leaders acting as puppets of the supranational elite (not necessarily aware of their real intentions; just following money, power, blackmail threats...).
By the way, Shepard's logic is the player's logic. If the options result illogical for you, it's up to your choice to express it through Shepard so the ending doesn't contradict anything built previously. Your fault, not his.
That’s why destroy ending is the canon ending and all other endings suck.
@@mushyroom9569 The control ending may be wonky but the synthesis is a real winner imo.
@@mushyroom9569 the walk away ending is cool if you don’t feel like Shepard has the right to decide like that, since self-determination could be a big theme of your play through.
The music during this is so chilling!
how do you get the final paragon option? the one to get the illusive man to kill himself?
I had to play it a second time for the final paragon option. You really cant do anything renegade troughout the trilogy. Especially in Mass Effect 3.
I think if you leave the Collector's Base data to him you can easily continue to mix up Paragon and Renegade options...he will do it alone the same. Because he trusts your judgements more in ME3 if you give him what he wanted in ME2...
Fuck the only renegade I ever did was to kill that assassin of his
7 year old comment, but for new people, you have to do the left option every time you talk to Illusive Man in ME3 and pass those checks
5:33 How could you let that happen! So self righteous Letting me die!
Who would have thought that the Illusive Man would have breathed his last as a war hero.
In the end, I actually felt rather sorry for the Illusive Man. In my view, you could compare him in charcter to Major Zero in the MGS series.
Hats off to Martin Sheen.
From the Final Run to Anderson's Death they really achieved that dark and desperate atmosphere, shame how they transformed Cerberus from a morally grey organization to pure evil. The rest of the last mission was shit though.
If you want to blame someone for the changes to Cerberus, blame the Illusive Man. He's the one who insisted upon having Reaper technology literally hanging in his base. He was probably indoctrinated just by spending so much time around their devices, confident he could turn them to his own purposes. In the end, the Reapers controlled him before he knew it, and Cerberus changed to serve the Reapers' will in turn.
That's the problem, I don't see someone with that knowledge be stupid enough to spend time around reaper tech.
Mikhailovick I mean they should’ve learned considering how it corrupted Benezia and Saren
@@jayl1031 the Illusive man truly didn’t know how in over his head he was.
Reapers have been indoctrinating organic life that has been far more evolved and intelligent than humans have ever been in their time.
Did the illusive man never consider that someone before him has already tried this and yet the reapers are still harvesting?
@@marco4149 Reaper indoctrination can be slow and methodical so it is so gradual that the victim doesn’t even realize or consider the fact they could be indoctrinated.
Say what you want about Mass Effect, but the way this ended always makes me sad knowing where it all began and it all ends here.
Makes me wonder what he would have been like had he not been indoctrinated
@@gaelofariandel6747 play 2. He isn't indoctrinated there, and cerberus isn't psycho yet. They save you, stop multiple collector invasions. They're supposed to be humanities special ops wing, but they become it's doom when TIM gets indoctrinated soon after me2 when he starts dabbling heavily into reaper tech.
I actually really liked the illusive man as an enemy, and I didn't imagine that the final confrontation with a mastermind like him was going to be a gunfight, but a conversation like this. I was really looking forward to siding TIM. I had this image in my head of all the reapers stopping attacking, then me and TIM sharing a glass of champaign as we began our galactic conquest. There are options throughout all the games to foward humanity, there should have been one here.
how would it be the ending having at your side cerberus and clone shepard with her soldiers
And THAT is the "Epic" ending that Mass Effect 3 Needed! Of all the cut / possible scenes that is one of the best I have ever found!
I completely agree. They should have not indoctrinated him. Instead, renegades should have had the option of siding with him and controlling the reapers at the end of the game while paragons would side with Hackett against TIM and destroy the reapers. The batarians could have been antagonists in place of Cerberus: the indoctrinated forces of the Leviathan of Dis led by Balak (or a replacement if you killed him).
Bioware did it right, the paragon option is actually controlling the reapers, because destroy them causes every synthetic form of life to die in the process and that is pretty renegade, don't you think?
@Ichibushido You had to use paragon/renegade options every time you encountered TIM - Mars, Thessia, and the Cerberus base. I did a few renegade options too, yet I was still able to persuade him.
Let's just say I wouldn't hire shepherd to man the phones at a suicide helpline
So... If I choose paragon/renegade everytime, I can have both of them 50/50 and still unlock all options?!
DAMN IT! I'VE BEEN FOCUSING ON PARAGON THIS WHOLE TIME!
This, my friends, is why spoilers are worth it. They prevent you from making vital mistakes.
Thankyou for uploading.
You do not need to use paragon options on him every time. So long as you have enough reputation whenever you encounter him to use paragon OR renegade choices, you'll be fine.
anyone know the theme name when shepard tries to talk some sense in into the illusive man?
th-cam.com/video/4c_wOavMuOg/w-d-xo.html All there is for now
The Illusive Man is one of Martin Sheen's best characterizations, and I say that with no irony or sarcasm. The man's on fire here. He's not phoning it in. He's acting his ass off.
Illusive Man: "Hey, Shepard! I am totally going to control the Reapers because I am just awesome like that. Don't you agree?"
Shepard: "Uh, no. You are like, indoctrinated and stupid!"
Illusive Man: "...You are right." *shoots self*
No, this was recorded and done on my first playthrough with an imported save.
4:46
I like to think that the part of TIM that is in conflict during this conversation is saying this to the Reapers. Like a part of him has realized The Truth and is trying to regain true control. Then he realizes he can't and kills himself out of defiance.
I mean he’s not wrong. Shepard can control them. He’s a tragic figure
Illusive man thought by having catalyst he couldve control them. But his implants were reaper tech. Such an amateur mistake. I think Catalyst only gave Shepard that chance because he bothered to get crucible. And united all organics and synthetics against reapers. Now he saw that he had to change cycle system
@@tcmugutc01 “He could never have controlled us because we already controlled him.” -Catalyst.
His last words were so damn poignant. He really did try, he gave it his all in an effort to help humanity…but he just didn’t have what it took to get the job done. In the end, that’s all we can do; try. Sometimes we succeed, sometimes we fail, but we only lose if we do nothing at all.
I felt bad for him.
Did not agree with his methods, but he did have the best interests for humanity in mind.
And then he was forced to betray humanity.
The Illusive Man is one of my favorite video game characters.
@cannle10 You must've missed a paragon/renegade choice when you spoke to him earlier; probably on Mars.
@maynpayn well the problem is that the catalyst said what would happen based of your decision, but you never get to see the effects of your decision. For me the bad ending starts with joker/Normandy I was into until then.
5:30 what is that short music piece called? It also plays during rannoch I believe.
This was an intense scene in the game. Illusive Man had me genuinely creeped out a bit here.
"Shepherd! I'm still very cross about the firecracker you put in my coffee! Look at my goddamn face!"
"It was a prank, bro! Relax!"
What is the music that starts at 4:47? I've tried finding it on the OST, but would like to find an extended version.
the only thing that i thought about during this is andrew ryan's lines: " a man chooses, a slave obeys"
I enjoyed working for Cerberus and the illusive man in ME2. Unfortunate it came to this.
what
how many points it even requres? i had all bar completed
I got this on first try. I always seem to get the best endings on first try because I explore e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g, and in order to get TIM to shoot himself you have to hit every Para/Ren special dialog, which means hitting that back dialog option in EVERY conversation.
"Thank you, Shepard"
The fact he killed himself for humanity? x10000000000000000000000000 respect. Hero.
I also like to pick Paragon for the last dialogue option and Renegade for all the previous ones. Provoking him with Renegade options makes his own responses much more interesting, as he's trying to convince himself that he did the right thing and is still in control of himself.
Illusive Man R.I.P
Yeah, that is called "a change in circumstances".
How come when Shepard convinces people to kill themselves it's a Paragon act but when I do it it's a felony?
0:35 - When T.I.M. walks by Shepard and the indoctrination waves hit, they look like farts as he pass. As he nears Anderson, his reaction nails it.
Exactly and then when we see his normally calm reserve give way to the hysterical realization that for all the good he thought he did, he was ultimately a puppet of the Reapers.
@HamiltonPictures you must have chosen only paragon or only renegade options with the illusive man during the game. Otherwise they won't appear.
That's a callback to Saren's suicide.
OMG, this scene comes full circle with Mass Effect 1, with Saran, and the suicide, and the... URGHGJDBDFKBFDKDF DFK (Dick explodes)
Those biotic fields the reapers were using on them are nearly invisible and therefore aren't wasting as much energy. Just thought that was neat.
Sure. You have to get a paragon/renegade (blue and red) branch conversation with TIM in Mars, Thessia and Chronos Station, by first choosing the middle line on the left side of the dialogue wheel.
If you do, you'll get the final paragon choice.
It was such a shame what they did to the Illusive Man in me3. He had so much potential of being a unique villain after me2 but they just changed him into a Saren 2.0 just for the sake of having Cerberus as the bad guys
ME3 Illusive Man reminds me of a James Bond villain, hundreds of henchmen, main stronghold, grand evil plans.
I mean, he wasn’t exactly a good guy in 2. He goes out of his way to show you the most sympathetic and good parts of the organization so you’ll do what he wants.
There's a hidden paragon/renegade dialogue option on Mars in the very beginning of the game, to get it you have to choose the left option (where Investigate would be) to get it. Otherwise, they don't show up. It also doesn't matter if you mix/match, as long as you choose EVERY reputation option during dialogue throughout the entire game.
How do you get this scene? I had a full paragon meter with a little bit of renegade, and I did it all but the last one, it was grayed out.
Same here, is this some sort of glitch? I was forced to take a renegade action in the end or I'd die
No, this isn't a glitch. You have to use the paragon/renegade options in the PREVIOUS conversations (on Mars, Thessia and Kronos Station) in order to unlock the dialogue choices. You also need a decently high paragon/renegade score, but the former is more important.
***** I did all that! I still got it greyed out...This is almost as ridiculous as being forced to play the multiplayer or getting the phone app to raise galactic readiness, even after you've gotten every single solitary war asset!
You don't need to do that anymore to get the final Destroy ending...
You might have to only choose paragon/renegade. I don't know. Always worked for me.
Xavior TheLycan you need to ask him in detail on Mars, Thessia, and the Base. Paragon choices.
Huh weird, my first playthrough WITH an imported ME2 Save I used all the charm options on the Illusive Man but I couldn't get that last one...
wait, i did the thing on mars to, and i still didn't get to do all the paragon stuff, and all the imports and that, still couldn't do it....
Good thing C-Sec didn't hire Sheppard as a Negotiator.....
@spoonmonkey14 saren also had bionic implants .... just like the new illusive man. the less organic something is the more control the reapers have, they apparently make husks husks because it is easier to control massive amounts of them.
This, and the last convorsation with Anderson before he died, was epic. If the crucible destoyed all the reapers after that and gave an epilouge on the effect of my choices on the races, I would be happy.
Crap, that cut-and-paste came out wrong. I was quoting Muse's song, "Take a Bow." It seemed fitting enough.
So i guess it doesnt matter, he dies anyways, sadly. Hes a great character with a deep personality.
@spoonmonkey14 Speaking of which, I couldn't choose the last paragon decision against him in the last conversation, and I had it maxed. Anyone got any clues why?
I did all paragon choices for his dialogue but still didn’t unlock those final 2, weird
@tektek55
I'm pretty sure you have to max out your reputation for the final choices to be available.
pllzz reply someone, how come when i do this the last paragon option is greyed out, like i have full paragon and everything. i dont understand..
Do you by any chance have the ID code for your female Shepard's model? It's a nice model and thought I could give it to my female Shepard.
I actually wanted my char to die because that gave the story a touch of sacrifice, how one man against all odds saved a galaxy. Hey during the game there were probably thousands of moments where shepard should have died and he did not, evading millions of bullets and healing himself up. Anyways I was very surprised with the ending about the intensions of the reapers and why they do it, a very good believable explanation with no simple escapes like "they're just evil and that's that"
If you did a completely new run (not new game plus) with no import, you may have missed the one on Mars. I'm not talking about the top-right response either, there's a blue one on the left side of the wheel that unlocks when you have enough reputation.
I think the biggest and almost definite support of indoc is TIM line about why he hasn't done the control "I need you to believe." occurs in first intimidate optuon
So what are you trying to say?
Shepperd must go for Paragon every time he meets illusive man throughout the game?
Is this how you also get the extra scene with Shepard and Anderson talking at the end?
How can you get this to happen? I made every major decision paragon and only a few accidental neutrals and renegades throughout the three games, had y paragon meter full (or so I think), and still couldn't say this. Why didn't it work?
*sigh* now i'm crying damn it all
@HeavyArmsO5
Exactly, meaning that they lost their willpower to the reapers, and before their suicide they end up recovering what was left of it. None of them have ever been "tricked" into doing anything, they were forced
I just finished the game and got all the options from the first time and achieved the best end even with the 50% only, but at this moment I was happy because I felt that I had returned him to his right
Full paragone game is the dast experiment
1:05 somebody’s been playing Red Dead Redemption 2....
What does it take to get the final paragon option for the Illusive man. I made virtually all paragon dialog options, every paragon quest and only committed two or three contest renegade actions in cut-scenes. It looked like my paragon bar was maxed but I still did not get that option. Do I seriously need to do absolutely EVERYTHING paragon? Should I not have done even one renegade context action?
@Auriono no i had full paragon and i still couldn't choose the last paragon speech sadly -.-