Versus Series: Anakin Skywalker VS. Jaina Solo Fel (Part 2)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- The family fight rages on! In part 2 of this epic duology matchup we see the conclusion of the Chosen One Anakin Skywalker's battle with his Granddaughter, the Sword of the Jedi Jaina Solo Fel!
Part 1: • Versus Series: Anakin ...
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EvanNova at 11:18: “Killing Dooku, his first ever cold blooded murder”
Tusken villagers, even the women and children too: Are we a joke to you?
"Cold blooded"=action committed while calm and without emotion or care.
With the Tuskan Tribe which abduncted and tortured his mother, Anakin was emotionally unhinged and wild, filled with so much grief that it echoed through the Force. Yoda himself felt it, describing "Skywalker is in pain, terrible pain."
Dooku's murder was done efficiently, and without any care at all. The Tuskan village massacre was an extremely emotionally-driven event.
@@geoffreyedgson7875 clearly that’s not true because he quite literally refused to do it and expressed guilt after the fact.
@@ohgoditsdave2837 I disagree. True, Anakin refused initially to kill Dooku after de-handing him. That murder and the reason for later regret was how the action contradicted a sense of consciencous, or the super-ego.
Ego, superego, and id; 3 stages of consciousness, within a person. The id often deals with the subconscious, or immediate gratification and instinct. While the superego is a human's sense of right or wrong or the moral codes they live by.
With Anakin, massacring the Tuskan Raiders was deeply emotional and violent, done to satisfy his Id. While Count DOoku's murder bothered him since it wasn't "the Jedi way," and his response at first to the instructions was Darth Sidious were "I shouldn't," not about how he did not wish to. Count Dooku's murder was against Anakin's Superego, at the time, when he still self-identified as a Jedi; prior to his drive to save Padme put his personal self of self (Ego) in friction with what he learned from Obi-Wan. The dispassion involved in Dooku's murder marks it as cold-blooded, and only bothered him since "he was an unarmed prisoner. I shouldn't have done that, it's not the Jedi Way."
This is exactly what I came to the comments for.
His mom: Yes.
One thing I always come back to when thinking about the power-scaling in the NJO compared to elsewhere, specifically in context to the crap it gets from the fanbase at times, is the simple fact that this is the first time in a long time we've seen the Jedi actually living freely. No pressure of dogma, no external threat of withheld Senatorial funding or pissing off the Supreme Chancellor of any given day, and none of the longstanding and ultimately restrictive beliefs about proper and improper ways of connecting with the Force. We've just got a bunch of Wild West Jedi living their lightsaber-cowboy dreams and attuning themselves to the Force in whatever way comes best to them.
It stands to reason that if you present these demigod-type beings with the choice to either live under a restrictive, insular, self-repressing system by implicit threat of excommunication or violent retribution, or simply tell them to be a decent person and pat them on their ass on the way to their next mission, the latter category are going to be able to connect to the Force in a much more fundamental way--and thus, be more able to rise to the level that so deeply messes up our NJO scaling.
I alsways found Jedi characters to be at their best when the story focuses on how they learn to understand the force especially with NJO Jedi because so many of them came to their own unique view
> no external threat of withheld Senatorial funding or pissing off the Supreme Chancellor of any given day,
Didn't both the New Republic AND Galactic Alliance nearly betray the New Jedi Order several times over?
They are woke, but in the right way...
Not to mention that Luke was the GOAT for not repeating the old ways.
Anakin would've been proud to see Luke change it from a rigid dogma that effectively screwed him over.
So I'll be honest here; with both this and Mace vs Caedus, the outcome was always a foregone conclusion- indeed, barring Yoda, Sidious and some other specific matchups I can't help but feel any fight between Trilogy and NJO fighters is one-sided.
Most NJO greats have something no old Jedi can boast- they all get to scale to Grandmaster Luke, who stands head and shoulders over everyone except for gods like Abeloth, the Ones and Max-Anakin. As you point out in Mace vs Caedus, that scaling alone makes a comparison tilt to the scales of the later era. I understand that such scaling is required to not have any story have stakes and not Luke stomping all threats, but it still means that any renowned master scales over most Jedi by default.
On top of this, the NJO also has much vaguer descriptions of character skillsets. Take the three rings, which by its nature is a very generalised fighting style that we never see given explicit strengths or weaknesses- compared to most OT lightsaber forms one can almost always argue an advantage for the NJO on the back of versatility. I can't think of a single fight in the njo eu where the fight is determined by the logistics of styles interacting. Compare to Old-school Niman, which similarly lacks weaknesses but also equally relies on specialisation to produce results (force integration- Kao Cen Darach, saberstaff/dual blades- Exar Kun etc). The comparison paints the new forms as blatantly superior, because we don't get to see their imitations other than pure skill.
Maybe I am just salty, but I can't help but feel like most fights like these have very litte in terms of stakes; GM Luke scaling means a legacy character will never be weaker in terms of force power or outright skill, and their vague but very efficient, generalised styles and use of alternative weapons let them exploit any given weakness of specialist fighters like old Jedi often are. And that just feels cheap to me.
So, a question @EvanNova95; what matchups would you consider that an old Jedi would win against the various greats of the new Jedi order?
I somewhat agree with you, but I want to point out that there are narrative reasons for both your complaints AND a sort-of work around.
I honestly don't see the comparison to GM Luke as being the major problem, but rather the mentality of the two Orders, and the events they had to face up against. The old Order, especially with Yoda at the helm, was a subdued, shadowy thing. There very well could have been Jedi who could scale to Yoda's level, but the green midget and his followers would never accept someone being flashy enough with their Force powers to show it. Whether it's arrogance or something else, there's a strong sense that the old Order constantly held themselves back in terms of how hard and far they pushed their powers. There's no sense of that with the NJO. The Jedi are pushed into showing their potential early and often.
I don't think NJO wipe the floor with old Order Jedi in terms of Force power. But anyone doing vs matches need to extrapolate a lot more when it comes to the Clone Wars era Jedi than they do with the NJO.
The saber techniques come across as specializations vs general skills. Or rather, a martial arts fighters vs an MMA one. The Three Rings of Defence are essentially a hybrid chop-shop of the forms. The "Niman" of sword movements. The answer to this is somewhat easy - Dooku's philosophy of Mastery of One vs being Good at All. The old Order Jedi would have to have experience fighting against the other forms to substitute for the 3RoD, but it's doable.
I both agree and disagree with some of these statements...selectively. A large component which separated the NJO from the OJO was personalization, self-discovery and individuality. The Old Jedi Order were highly conformist and their respective weaknesses and strengths can be tied to 1 particular individual, or shared between dozens of fellow jedi. Yet the New Jedi order valued individualism and were highly pragmatic towards any threat they encountered.
Also, the New Jedi Order grew and had to face-down the multiple small-scale Imperial Remnant conflicts, then the Yuzzhan Vong War, the 2nd Galactic Civil War, and the Abeloth crisis paired with the Lost Tribe of the Sith. They triumphed after long and arduous times, while the Old Jedi Order grew moderately complacent in their 1,000-year-long peace, and decimated by another Galactic-Scale War that emerged right under their noses.
On the other hand, though, many of the Old Jedi Order's negotiation efforts, cultural developments and unity were often stronger and tighter than the New Jedi Order were. Kyp Durron actually led a splinter-faction of Jedi away from Luke SKywalker to fight the Yuzzhan Vong, very much like Revan and Malak did. Plus the NJO was constantly under one political or military threat after another and never could manage more than a decade of temporary peace.
Personally, I actually believe that many of the Best from the Old Jedi Order (Shaak Ti, Mace Windu, Anakin SKywalker, Dooku [pre-Darkside fall], Plo Koon and Obi-Wan Kenobi) could actually face-down members of Luke SKywalker's Jedi Order and win: such as against Corran Horn, Saba Sabetyne, Mara Jade Skywalker or Kenth Hamner. Or even Saesee Tiin and Qui-Gon Jinn could face Kam Solusar or Cilgal one-on-one and either win or lose.
Jaina Solo-Fel, Kyp Durron and Luke Skywalker as each nearly in a class of their own, combat-wise. Yet below the Jedi Council members, I do concede that even the average Jedi Knight from Luke Skywalker's time would out-match an averge pre-Clone Wars Jedi Knight; as they largely follow the examples set by their respective Grand-Masters on a small-scale: Yoda's direct Ataru-offense paired with philosophically-restrained powers, juxtaposed with Luke SKywalker's personal quest of spiritual maturity and courage to face the Dark side instead of avoiding it like the plague.
Heck, I honestly believe that Jedi such as Corran Horn would be labelled "lost causes" by the Old Jedi Order; instead of encouraged and empowered to discover their own unique talents.
@@geoffreyedgson7875 As far as philosophy and spiritual development goes, I agree with you- a huge part of the EU NJO was that it tried hard to learn from past mistakes and chose individuality over conformity, backed up by always reaching out to the lost before attempting to kill them. Let me be clear that I LOVE the eu sequel books, mara-jade, Caedus and all the other characters. I just think that they are poor vs material.
My general disquiet is that for most NJO vs battles the whole discussion comes down to one question: how well does the fighter in question scale to Luke? If the answer is 'well', then you win. If not, you lose.
I acknowledge that the above statement is of course something of an exaggeration; there is nuance to be found, but I don't think NJO characters get the same interesting specialisations that old jedi characters do combat-wise. There isn't much of 'interaction' between combat style the same way, say, Dooku vs Anakin or Zannah vs Bane played out. Jaina, Luke and others don't have to trade off for extra power or speed the way anakin does by sacrificing versatility, so naturally he is at a disadvantage as long as they are powerful enough to not get steamrolled by his all-out attack. See what I mean when I say that it tends to become a binary?
One can pretty easily draw a line for NJO characters above which no-one but maybe Yoda/ Sidious and perhaps Vader can even challenge, whilst below it's a simple matter of power scaling.
Both Jaina and Caedus won because they are scaled such that they can weather any storm of offence from dedicated aggressors like Anikin or Mace, then cycle through their wide arsenals to find victory.
Personally, I feel like a better match-up would be Jaina vs Obi-wan, since his massive defensive focus flips the script and he is better prepared to deal with multi-layered assault. He'd probably still lose, but it would be more interesting to see in my opinion.
And it is my opinion here. I'm not pretending that I'm some arbiter of great vs matchups haha. Respect to Evan and the video. Maybe this type of fight just isn't my thing after all.
@@rakshithanand8262 Respect. I agree, and like your points here quite a lot.
To tell the truth, the complexity behind all the NJO characters might tactually be indicative of the rich and varied literature behind them, and how they are very different from OJO parallels. Evannova95 actually featured Jaina Solo-Fel vs. Darth Plageius 6 years ago, and associated Jaina with the traditional 7 lightsaber forms instead of the layered and thorough analysis in this video.
Out of curiosity; how about a theoretical Saba Sabetyne vs. Shaak Tii? The latter was very much a direct aggressor but was not somebody to be "led by the nose," while Tii certainly has the magnitude to hold out against powerful figures and is very much a duelling-centre Jedi.
@@geoffreyedgson7875 You know, That's a really neat matchup you've got there! Hmm, Saba was considered by Caedus as a threat and walked all over Grandmaster Hamner.On the other, EU Ti can hold up to Dooku, Vader and Grievous (but not beat them). If we took Caedus at his word then Saba should stomp Ti, but all else being equal I'd see Ti having the edge through leveraging her superior senses and speed (physical- Saba has great force sense).
I'd happily watch a proper breakdown though! Any way to get evan over here to comment?
This is for your Q&A
1: What made you wanna bring Anakin into the VS series?
While also bringing back Jaina Solo Fel…
2: You brought up Boba Fett in Jaina’s Breakdowns
Has it crossed the mind on having him show up in a non Force user matchup
Like Jango Fett vs Pre Vizsla?
Especially with Book of Boba Fett coming
if he made a boba focused video I'd definitely watch it
Fair, kinda saw it coming but hoped Anakin could pull it off. Still I appreciate someone that looks at Anakin’s and Obi’s duel the way it really was. The analysis of Jaina’s saber skills were also really well done
Post-mortem questions & criticisms.
1) you often use the label, "master" referring to different fighting skills and martial arts. This label is pretty common though and often demand a lot of extra extrapolation or contextualization for a "degree of mastery." In the future, perhaps the label "practitioner," such as "Anakin was a practitioner of Shii-Cho, Soresu, Djem So and Niman," then elucidate on to which degree of practiced and applied various skills.
2) I am very impressed that you went into details about Anakin Skywalker's defense. That often doesn't get a lot of attention, and successful for any counter-centric duelists depends a lot, or entirely in Plo Koon, Kenobi or Darth Zannah's cases, on a flexible and high-quality defense.
3) I minorly disagree with how you described Anakin assessing a enemy with an "opening salvo" then adjust his methods depending on what could work and drive that tactic hard until he won. Instead, Anakin more likely would probe until he found the best skill he was comfortable applying, then dial-up the pressure to 13 or 15 (on a scale of 10), not pragmatically using every option or tactic available (especially physical combat, retreat, or the Force; he was very much in-love with his lightsaber).
Anakin did not have nearly the same range or measure of pragmatism as Darth Bane, Kenobi, Corran Horn, Kyle Katarn, Darth Malgus, or Uli Qel-Droma accumulated.
I think the problems with the term master lie in the failings of Star Wars as storytelling platform, less so with the terminology, and it's problems are twofold. Star Wars as a whole exists on a time scale that makes such a term largely meaningless, because there are so few frames of reference between generations, and more importantly, depending on whether you follow Legends or Canon continuity, it functionally changes from a dying magic system to a thriving one. In Legends, the force and the characters grow continually weaker over time, so the term master means less and less, whereas in Canon they're growing stronger over time and it means considerably more. "Master of x in their own time" is about as definitive an answer you're likely to get
@@skynyrdjesus I would say that in Legends most characters from later generations are stronger than the older ones. After all, the Star Wars universe isn't Middle Earth. It progresses, and the Force and the lightsaber are developed and refined over the millennia. For instance, I would say that Darth Vader or Sidious or even Dooku would beat out the competition from any era. Primarily due to either a greater grasp of the Force, greater mastery over the lightsaber, better strategy and tactics, or a combination of all of them. The only character that definitely beats Vader or Dooku being Vitiate. And Sidious would best Vitiate, though it would be hard-fought. Hell, Krayt and several One Sith are pretty potent too. The main reason the term "master" in Star Wars is largely meaningless is because in every era the main players are masters of either the Force, the saber, or both. So, proclaiming a character a master of something, without expanding upon it is the issue. Not because of how the Force decays or revives, but because there are so many masters in Star Wars across it's history that the term doesn't even begin to describe them. Seriously, look through Wookieepedia's lists of Pre-Ruusan and Post-Ruusan Jedi Masters. They are staggering.
@@austinkersey2445 I wouldnt say that the force itself becomes stronger or weaker over time but rather that population increases creating the statistical phenomenon of the exceptions becoming more and more recurring in later eras.
This is comparable to the illusion of a lower avarage IQ inside human population in the real world, while at the same time having oddly enough a higher population of highy skilled individuals.
As an example: We have many many many masters during the clone-Wars both on the dark and the light side.
1000 years earlier during the Ruusan war we have pretty much just Kaan and Kas'sim on the darkside and Hoth, Farfalla and Raskta on the lightside.
That amount looks like very little, however sith and jedi during that time were just a view hundreds each.
The clone Wars era jedi order on the other hand consists of thousands of members.
Obviously that means that incredibly skilled aswell as incredibly incompetent individuals (both the statistical minorities) become more frequent.
To give an even more extreme example: After the Ruusan war, the lord rate of Sith was set to 100%.
Is that a represantative number of how often a sith becomes sith lord? Obviously not, since after that war there was only 1 sith alive.
Now I know there is that counterargument of Sith (and darksiders in general) over time ruining the cosmic force.
The idea of this argument is basicly that darksiders, unlike lightsiders do not give up themselves to the force and therefore do not transform their living force into cosmic force (which in turn would have a "recycing" effect on the living force) but instead vanish into another reality known as "Chaos".
Now I believe that my argument on the population is more significant than the ruined force argument due to the prevelance of darksiders.
You see, technically every living being is part of the living force. A view of them are part of a forcesensitive cult.
Of those view even less are darksiders, and of those a small amount fell deep enough into the darkside to have no or very little light inside them.
So we are talking about a minority of a minority of a minority of living beings.
Unlike the population increase this phenomenon is pretty much ignorable.
@@wahrerrosty5347 Ah, I thought you meant that the later the time period, the weaker the Force wielders. As, I have seen far too many new Star Wars fans espouse that in the EU the Clone Wars era Jedi and Sith, as well as beyond, are jack shit when compared to the Old Republic Sith and Ancient Sith. And, having read and played most of the material, I find it a bit laughable. There are certainly Jedi and Sith of old that are comparable or more powerful than a fair amount of theit modern counterparts. It's just that the later you get, the more ridiculous the feats get. And, I'm kind of tired of people acting like they know the lore when they get most of it from click-baity videos like, "The Ancient Sith Lord that made PALPATINE look like a JOKE!" That kind of shit just annoys me. I get your point though, and that's fair.
@@wahrerrosty5347 It would seem that the later eras had way more prodigies and talents. But, that may just be because they are covered more.
Disney canon is so generic watered down goofy uncreative uninspired and poorly written David filoni ruined grivious,ventress backstory and quin Lan vos, he is a lore destroyer.
Fanreading Anakin into Darth Vader Revenge Of The Sith Novelization
Hell Yeah! What i wouldn't give for Evan to do that!
I heavily disagree
3:12 Like what? Anakin beat most of his opponents easier than Mace ever did and they were the same opponents Mace faced. If you are talking about Palpatine is less impressive than most when it comes to dueling
4:57 Also Plo Koon there is no evidence they didn't fight infact TCW confirms it
6:49 Also Anakin disarmed immediately into the duel
13:48 Finally we agree on something
Um yeah Anakin's emotions have affected him more than once and you forget the novel says they were equal when Obi-wan unhindered himself. Also Obi-wan outright stated unhindered Anakin would kill him no matter what so...
16:11 I would love to see them also why should we take those seriously but not the rest? Because quite frankly I don't care how many sources say they are and I am actually quite confident their are more sources suggesting they aren't. More so the sources suggesting they are equals are either pre prime or otherwise.
25:22 Um both of those have circumstances
37:31 Uh Jacen was clearly caught off guard and she lit the lightsaber at least a second before that
38:27 He got stabbed in the stomach and still fought her to a standstill...
49:07 Uh are you going to ignore the fact Anakin has spared with Mace, fought Asajj and fought a lot of Darksiders who are agressive
50:34 That argument not exactly true Anakin has fought more Darksiders as shown in ghost prison
54:30 Oh God I could name so many instances where Anakin has done something similar
Anyways sorry if this seems to negative I still enjoy your vids just this one I am iffy on
You got a big point , Anakin should have won imo
We need @TheNuisanceBird to debunk this lol
Nick Gillard is not a source, well said
So I am giving my questions from the first video over to here as well as a couple new ones.
What was the inspiration for this matchup specifically?
When you speak of Dooku and Kenobi as Grandmaster Level is that purely for a specific skill or Grandmaster Tier overall and how much of a gap is there between Grandmaster Tier opponents like them and Grandmaster opponents like Kyp and Caedus?
I noticed that in the past similar to Caedus, Anakin used to be ranked as a tier 3 weakling and I know you mentioned how you've changed your opinion since. How has that opinion changed about Anakin's skill level?
Lastly what would you lable as oneness? Is it the oneness achieved by Luke and Jacen as the pure embodiment or would Anakin, Obi Wan and Jaina's oneness be considered on the same level? Also how does the oneness demonstrated by Kanan Jarrus within the canon add to this oneness scaling? (Kanan's feats against The Grand Inquisitor, Maul and his final sacrifice in canon)
Okay, I get that the council doesn't have a very high opinion on Anakin Skywalker's combat abilities, force feats or even his physicality, but this is just ridiculous. I'll go over this myself and how I see this fight going now from the top(though there is a bias involved as Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader is my favourite character in all of sci-fi history).
Physicality: I think Anakin takes this. I'm willing to concede on speed going to Jaina in terms, but since you've made it pretty clear that Jaina is fighting the pinnacle of Anakin as we've seen him without his armour, I can't see a scenario where Jaina beats him physically. Lets look at them in their size, Anakin Skywalker stands at 6'2 and weighs in at around 180-190lbs, according to wookieepedia, Jaina Solo Fel stands at a measly 4'9, which is probably complete bollocks, but I can't picture anyone with Jaina's feats in speed being able to match and exceed someone on her grandfather's level being particularly heavy, so she's giving a fair bit of height, weight, strength and power away to her grandfather, who at his peak was able to best Count Dooku, who's 6'3(though that doesn't add up when your actor is 6'5 but anyway)mind you in pure strength, sure Dooku was a lot older, but it doesn't change anything I think, Anakin's strength advantage is a bigger one than Jaina's speed advantage in my view, and given that both Jaina and Anakin are willing to go for the kill from the jump, well we all know who wins that kind of fight.
Force wielding: Even. I concede that Jaina has greater variety with her powers and shatter point, but since the ability takes time for it to manifest at its peak, Anakin's relentless pace will not let Jaina get into a state to effectively use shatter point to the power that she's able to normally, lets not forget Evan that you yourself labelled Darth Caedus's use of the power as negligible when placed against Darth Vader, and you've hammered home the fact that Jaina isn't as gifted with that shatter point as her brother, who himself didn't even use it to the degree of Mace Windu, so I don't see it being that effective against Anakin, sure the lightning can come into factor, but the likelihood of it getting to that point where Jaina could use it isn't high for me.
Lightsaber skill: Anakin. This isn't really much of a contest for me, Jaina comparatively isn't as good as her grandfather with the lightsaber, Kyp clearly didn't give his all in that fight so that's negligible, Darth Caedus 2? Caedus was badly injured before the fight even began, Jaina by comparison was fresh, and it still took a gargantuan effort on her end to finish her twin off in the fight. Anakin meanwhile bested both Asajj Ventress and Count Dooku, he also made Barris Offee look like an amateur in their fight in the Jedi Temple, add to that Anakin was a padawan the first time he beat Ventress, held out longer than his master as a padawan against Dooku and eventually bested him when Obi Wan couldn't, I don't think Jaina can beat Count Dooku in a pure saber duel if I'm honest so that is another point in Anakin's favour, Anakin has another point over his granddaughter in this fight.
The verdict: Well it should be pretty clear, I believe Anakin Skywalker wins this fight, but how does it look? I'm thinking something along the lines of Mustafar in terms of speed and power, but Anakin is the same as he was when he fought Dooku, so with a clearer head, no other bullshit on his mind other than the woman across from him. Jaina and Anakin launch at each other, Anakin goes right in for the kill, hunting Jaina and making it difficult for her to get her bearings, Jaina attempts a force push as Anakin's coming forward, it partially works and Anakin's sent back a little bit, but her follow up strike is blocked, now Jaina tries to go forward, offence is her specialty after all, but Anakin's defences are holding up well, while Jaina's don't as she gets caught with a strike to the left shoulder, making it harder to use that arm, though you wouldn't know it watching the fight. Anakin, tired of being on the defence sends a push of his own which sends Jaina further back and Anakin rushes in, striking high, then low, then their blades lock, and Anakin uses his superior strength to move his blade into Jaina's left arm just after the shoulder and her left leg at the thigh into his lightsaber, severing both limbs.
And thus, I declare Anakin Skywalker, the chosen one of the force, the victor.
Completely agree. The fact Caedus could even walk during his final duel with Jaina is beyond impressive - and dueling on par with Jaina shoes he is innately far above her.
The bias was very strong with this video.
Personally think my former apprentice Skywalker would emerge victorious, but nonetheless a meticulous video that was worth the wait. Keep up the good work and I'm also ready to see who I shall duel later this season.
I think the difference in age accounts for more than you let on.
Of course, that is the pre-requisite forms you decided for these two characters, so there's no real changing that; but I think Jaina's clear greater variety of experience, part of her being slightly more aged by a decade or so in comparison to Anakin, is what really sets this match up.
I think if you're to take them both at 21 year old combatants, Anakin comes out on top. With the parameters you specified, though? I can't help but begrudgingly agree, even if there are specific points I don't agree with. I do think Anakin is superior in a duel, just on account of the fact that Jaina *kind* of held off a Kyp Durron who wasn't giving her his all, and Caedus was clearly greatly handicapped in their final duel; aside from the physical injuries, he was also more focused at the time around the fate of his daughter. I just think Anakin has higher deliberate showings, and I think the most you could give Jaina is a tie with her grandfather.
I still think Jaina has a good chance to come on top. But I do not think she's superior as a duelist. With all that said though, this has become one of my favorite versus battles yet, and I'm glad it could be covered by you. I'm a bit of an Anakin fanboy, not much of one, I don't profess him to be able to beat Windu, Yoda, Vader, etc, mind you, but I do have a personal repetoire with his character which can lead to my bias. This video, and your analysis, has both grounded my opinion of how incredible he is, and humbled my perspective on said incredibility.
Brilliant as always, Evan. I hope you have a good rest of your holidays! May the Force be with you.
I agree. Not only in variety or quantity for different skills characters can accumulate if they have an extra decade under their belts, but also in their cognitive development.
Mentally, humans in the real-world are still developing cognitive pathways in our brains until around age 25, 26, and multiple experiences, emotional tolls, or biological decline such as dementia can all impact how people function. Jaina Solo-Fel's decade of growth over Anakin is far from a small difference, in a psychological sense, and in the end our minds direct actions from our bodies.
I’d add that jaina fought hard during the re-taking of the Jedi and helped fight an avatar of abeloth despite being severely injured and exhausted from multiple days of continuous fighting
If you’re a massive Anakin fan I recommend watching the versus videos I have on my channel using him.
Anakin by ROTS, as a grown as 23 year old man at the beginning of his prime that had already trained his own padawan, would utterly destroy Jaina at ANY point end of debate. If you actually think Jaina stands even a chance against a pre-suited Vader you’re an even bigger post-ROTJ fanboy than this channel is. Period. Anakin would’ve beaten Sidious by that point. Lucas said that himself this is not in any way debatable. Nobody could stop his Djem so onslaught by that point. Nobody, not even Kenobi, who got utterly dominated the entire fight on Mustafar until the very last second as Vader had tunnel vision. Kenobi, the immovable object, had to give ground the entire time. And then Vader made a mistake that he never would’ve made had he not been in that state of mind. Like this has been explained a hundred times over. And yes. He also would’ve smoked Windu, it doesn’t matter what you profess him to do or not. Where do you think the ROTS videogame adaption gets the ideas from? From Lucas’ original screenplay and script. Anakin was supposed to be the one to fight and kill mace, taking place exactly the way the gene describes, and then dropping his lightsaber saying “what have I done” and the film continues on as normal.. Again, that is indisputable. Where do you think the game gets the idea from. Anakin by ROTS would have wrecked ANY Jedi on the council, Kenobi is the ONLY one that had a chance of defeating him solely because of who he was to him and the fact that he was best defensive combatant in Star Wars, the fight between them was even stated to symbolize the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object. Like I said, nobody could stop Anakin’s onslaught by that point. Definitely not Jaina Solo. She’d get wrecked in seconds. And even at 21, 2 years before ROTS. Anakin was literally already strong enough to kill Yoda AND Sidious at the SAME TIME. Go read the clone wars infinites story that literally depicts exactly THAT happening; had the father never wiped Anakin’s memory on Mortis, he would’ve left and literally killed both of them. Lmao, again, like I said, this IS NOT debatable. This is the chosen one. Thee strongest force sensitive to ever live without any sort of debate. Lucas directly said himself that even Luke would NEVER be able to outdo his father in a direct contest of strength. That he wouldn’t be able to beat him in a “force tug of war” is how he put it. And he was talking about Luke past ROTJ. At any point. In terms of direct strength, Luke never came close to his father. Skill/knowledge and strength/depth are 2 completely different things. Many fans do not understand that…. Either way, at any age, Anakin destroys Jaina. End of argument.
@@dazdavis7896 at any age is a bit too far but nicely said! anakin is da GOAT!! I wish they made the eu into the main live action sequels and made the 3 main characters jacen solo, jaina solo, and ben skywalker then make Luke skywalker, Mara jade, Han Solo, and leia side characters then make anakin appear sometimes as a force ghost giving guidance to the main characters in times of trouble then make palpatine come back even stronger making him a multiversal threat then make anakin come back and become one with the force and reach full potential and beat palpatine with the help of his family, that would be cool.
That's the best 2 hours of my life spent with absolute focus. Well worth the wait Evan and thank you for your VS series.
While I am not ready to change my opinion that Anakin can beat Obi-Wan overall, I am willing to admit that Anakin and Obi-Wan are in near equal terms and can go either way by the skin of the teeth. More like a 5.5/10 type fight.
When I first saw the preview, I knew Jaina will win due to being heavily compared to Mace Windu and beating Darth Caedus in the final duel. But at least it's very close and and quite engaging to say the very least. With that being said, aside from Rey, Jaina is perhaps the strongest female Jedi in both Legends and Canon timeline.
Also, despite loving the TCW era Jedi for their stories and unique personality, NJO Jedi are so damn OP that the majority of the top 10 most powerful Jedi list will consist of NJO. Jedi's like Luke, Kyp, Jacen, Jaina, and Kyle all make top the list no problem.
Anyway, onto the Q&A time in the next comment:
Q&A
1. So now you have an updated view on Anakin, where do you place him now in the tier list?From the looks of it, its looks like that Anakin is tier 1 along with Jaina Solo.
2. Is Obi-Wan going to make his return to his VS series? If he does return, the best matchup to fit the whole NJO vs TCW (despite how lopsided it was) will be Obi-Wan vs Kyle Katarn
3. What's your opinion on the upcoming series Kenobi?
4. Have you thought about making shorter videos while working on longer VS Series? I kinda want to see more of your thoughts and other content while waiting for the masterpiece.
@@centerofstar for me
1. I agree. Anakin for me was underrated by the council forcecast before
2. I honestly hope they use someone new and never before seen. We love kenobi but other characters deserve some love too
3. Can't wait for it but also cautiously optimistic
4. Shorter versus is also great.
The problem with kenobi is that he has too many advantages over Anakin as his master and is definitely the more experienced duellist and smarter fighter. Kenobi takes him 5.5/10 due to these advantages.
NJO Jedi are in no way “Op” , the clone wars era Jedi put them to shame without any sort of a debate save for Luke. That’s it. Anakin by ROTS, Yoda, Mace, Kenobi, Dooku, even Plo Koon, I mean every one of them surpass anybody on the NJO council with ease. The old order was OP, The NJO is not.
Damn, the first 20 minutes were pretty ranty. And I agree, too many normie channels just take the quotes from Gillard as truth (don't get me wrong, he's a fantastic fight choreographer and he definetely knows more about the ins and outs of the fights than we do), and Shaak Ti's "official" death (embraced by Disney canon as well) is so damn stupid and adds absolutely nothing of value for either Anakin, since he just sneaked on her, or Shaak just idling there in meditation while everyone is being shot or hacked to pieces. Lucas had many good calls, but also a LOT of stupid calls. This and making Grievous a coward because "he didn't want to make another Vader" among many.
Yeah, there are half of things that George made for Star Wars that isn't as good as what Legends have in mind
I do love when fights or games get close, especially in lightsaber duels and football. Good job, my man.
A few things we need to consider, however:
1. Anakin was said by Kit Fisto and, later on, by old Ben Kenobi as a "cunning warrior". For example, in the _ROTS_ novelization, he decided that he would do to Darth Tyranus what the Sith Lord did him back on Geonosis; poetic justice. And, in _The Clone Wars: Lightsaber Duels,_ as he knew Fisto almost as long as he knew Obi-Wan, he would find a way to exploit what flaws the Nautolan may possess.
2. Read the prologue of _Jedi Trial_ for insights into Anakin Skywalker's views on "tried-and-true maneuvers" and improvisation; Chapter 3 for how Nejaa Halcyon feels about being bested by "mere Padawan" in lightsaber combat; and Chapter 17 for Tyranus telling Pors Tonith to beware of the "volatile" young Skywalker.
Using FotJ Jaina with LotF equipment is not really fair and consistent, it's like giving RotS Anakin his Vader armor plates for saber resistance
You forgot that Anakin fought multiple darksiders during the clone wars of various levels of skill like ones in The New Droid Army or over 100 captured in the Ghost Prison so Anakin's experience is not in question over Jaina (also we literally see one prefering to use blasters so Anakin clearly can deal with force sensitive gunslingers)
What were Jaina's weaknesses?
the Jaina vs few sith sabers is literally a force feat as you shown the quote
How is Jaina's beskar sword an edge? How would her Jar'Kai be better than anything he saw in Ventress or in his technique
the "who more likely can achieve oneness" argument is crap as it would rather not happen at all, it's like the breaking enemy's lighstaber blade shit
Kenobi can match Grievous striking 20 times per second, if Anakin can give him a hard time I don't see Jaina's defense (and by extention NJO Kyp and Caedus who has 1 arm and got dunked on by 2 random mandos) being as good as his. Just because you are compared to someone doesn't automatically mean your skillset is the same and are now in the same group of power
seriously Evan start being fair again
I'm not certain about first point becouse Jaina normally have blaster. And during FOTJ her equipment was even better that during LotF. This was Lightsaber, few detonaitor, blaster, vibroblade(probably) and molytex armor.
@@stanisawjarczyk5995 does she have it during crucible?
look I have a massive issue with this on you basing this via Jania handled herself in a fucking SPAR against Kyp Durron and thus can beat Anakin... im sorry no. Kyp was having all the restraint and was not LOOKING for a duel to the death thing... Anakin has far more experience fighting enemy force sensitives at this point ESPECIALLY as Vader.
Ventress, Dooku, Cin Dralligg, all the jedi in the temple, Obiwan Kenobi....
experience tells.
I will credit her for the defeating Cadeus issue? I mean the whole he had no hand and other issues is a big problem, but in terms of actual fighting... like sure that is a high credit got to give it to her..
you had to much she is this awesome trust me on it and the other character is more popular ...
feats are everything. feats are the concrete facts of thing. boasts only should be given some gran of salt.
as a General Anakin has been in far more battles, and has been in CHARGE OF FAR MORE BATTLES THEN jANIA EVER DID.
SO IM SORRY BUT... NOPE DONT BUY IT.
did not mean to caps lock there. apologize.
I love you guys and what you do and this can be alot of fun, but I very much disagree with you on this.
I agreed with you on the Cadeus v.s. Mace fight, not not this one.
sorry. its great to hear from you again, and thanks for taking a shot on this but still. vote against!
As an autistic person myself, I've always seen Anakin as someone who is probably on the spectrum - his stilted, rather awkward, but also intense social relationships, his special interests (mainly the mechanical thing and flying), his difficulty with accepting change, his obsessiveness, his inability to let things go, etc. In the past I've questioned whether he may be be a savant of the force in some way, but I don't know if that term applies really. I would be interested to know whether George Lucas meant to make the character on the spectrum explicitly, or whether it was a subconscious thing on his part (I've heard it said that Lucas has some autistic traits himself). More of a thought than a question needing an answer. :o)
Psychologists speculated that anakin has BPD, or borderline personality disorder.
@@johnzhou3860 Really? Mm, I can see that too. Looking at force users, all of them have something wrong with them - Mace Windu is basically a psycho with trust issues, Obi Wan is some kind of OCD pious dude that likes chopping limbs off, like a something out of the Spanish Inquisition almost, Yoda has a delusionally high opinion of himself and is utterly intractable. Dooku seems to think he's some swash-buckler in a Robin Hood movie, and Sidious is basically your evil magician archetype (and a megalomaniac). So yeah, pretty tight bunch. :o) The only one who was half way normal was Qui-gon, but of course he ends up getting killed in TPM. And it fits - all these guys and gals are playing on a totally different level from your normal jacks and jills making their way in the universe - of course theyre going to be crazy! :o)
Have you ever thought about doing a tournament style video? Take a bunch of minor characters and knock out some versus matches over the course of like a livestream or something to that effect?
this is an awesome idea i really hope Even sees
also k'Kruk wins by just refusing to die
Awesome xD well worth the wait. Thank you for this beautiful love letter to the EU. Sadly tho, Kyle and Malgus have been surpassed as my fave match-up of yours.
And again: thank you very much for using some of my artworks ^^ it really means a lot that you (at least apparently) enjoy them, its a honor.
Are you can use Darth krayt anytime soon love your videos been watching them since I was in Middle School
I believe I agree with you.... Though with that said I would like to see your analysis once Anakin comes into his own as The Black Armored terror, Darth Vader. I believe Vader would not suffer from the same trappings Anakin did. No tunnel vision. A more diverse and balanced lightsaber form. I would suggest you do THAT Video.
“His first ever cold blooded murder”
Tusken Raiders: 👀
The stormtrooper falling down the stairs killed me 😂😂
Ikr.
Me too
Looks like Evan has a sense of humor
First ever cold blooded murder….
Erm….. (look at tuskens)
Well I guess it was COLD specifically I guess.
look up the definition for cold blooded, its not the same as crime of passion
I didn’t finsih part one but congrats on part 2 look forward to more content
Don’t know if I’m too late on this, but would you ever consider doing a versus match of Armored Bane vs Vader. I think it has some potential to be an interesting fight
Vader would have a lot of problems against orbalisk bane since the orbalisk armor was only weak to electrical discharge, something that Vader couldn’t use regularly. Most other tactics wouldn’t work since the orbalisk armor heals the wearer at a rapid pace and has total immunity to lightsabers
I dont think of Anakin as Anakin after he submits to Sideous. I think its Vader from there on and I think how he fights shows it. Like Bleach's Ichigo and his hollow self. Both are strong fighters but one is much more aggressive and ruthless
What tier would you put Leia Organa Solo?
I have alot of vs ideas
Galen Marek vs luke skywalker episode 6
sedriss vs lucien draay
exar kun vs kyle katarn
ulic qel droma vs count dooku
obi wan kenobi vs darth malak
revan vs darth caedus
mace windu vs mara jade
anakin skywalker vs ulic qel droma
galen marek & darth krayt vs darth caedus & darth malgus
These are really good ideas!
A question for your Q&A video, wouldn't Meetra Surik be considered Grandmaster of The Jedi Order (at least, for a short time) right after KOTOR 2? After all, by that point, The Jedi Order was virtually destroyed, and she, Atris, and Meetra's companions were all that were left. Until Meetra decided to look for Revan in The Unknown Regions, she spent her time rebuilding The Republic, and The Order from scratch, and during that time, wouldn't she be the leader of The Order, and, therefore, Grandmaster?
So, I have to correct you slightly on one little detail: according to Troy Denning, when he narrated her fighting style in the books he wrote where she fought, he had Juyo in mind as her main discipline. Given that Juyo is a Form that is built upon other Forms as foundation, I would argue that her own Juyo is - if my memory of her fights is intact, it's been years - a mixture of Soresu and Shien, with a slight sprinkling of Shii-Cho and Makashi.
Also, as controversial as your verdict might be, I completely agree with it. I think that too many people focus on the "Anakin is the chosen one therefore he's the strongest", and don't really understand that his potential isn't equal to his actual levels of skills and feats. By that, I mean that he has been stifled by his own mental shortcomings - the same shortcomings that led Yoda and the Council to refuse to take him as a Jedi at first - but also, in my opinion, by Palpatine own manipulations.
While I'll admit it's been a very long while since I've read or watched anything Star Wars, so I can't pinpoint an actual proof of what I'm about to say, it's not really out of the realm of possibility, even outright OBVIOUSNESS, that Palpatine was one of the main reasons Anakin never hit his full potential. While he needed Anakin to be as strong as possible to help him enforce his plan of killing all the Jedi and finally bring the realization of the Two Sith to fruition, he's also the one who, ironically, broke THE rule of the Sith Order. By killing his master, not in a duel, like Darth Bane had understandably ruled as necessary, but in a treacherous, cowardly way, he went against what Bane had mentioned as absolutely vital to the Two Sith Order: the Apprentice must kill the Master in a duel, that proves that the Apprentice has become more powerful. And by doing so, with each generation, the Sith would become more powerful than the last. But, Palpatine went AGAINST that. There's no indication that he would've defeated Plagueis in a duel, at least I don't think there is, and if his killing of his master while he was asleep is any indication, my gut feeling tells me that Palpatine himself didn't think his victory was assured.
Taking all of that into consideration, PLUS the fact that he had clones of himself made, it's pretty clear that Palpatine viewed his continued life as being more important than the Rule of Two legacy, even BEFORE he became the Emperor, and even BEFORE it was clear that he was the most powerful Force User of his generation. So, is it really out of the realm of possibility that Palpatine simply goaded Anakin to the Dark Side, while keeping him "neutered" enough, through careful manipulation (he's a skilled politician, after all), to have him on a leash, so that when the time comes, he could simply hijack his body? I mean, you could make the argument that his statement to Yoda that "Vader will become more powerful than either of us" disproves that theory of Palpatine manipulating Anakin into not hitting his potential, given that he clearly states that he will, but I think that, on one hand, Sidious is lying through his teeth about his intentions (which are, in my opinion, about using Anakin' body as a potential vessel, not actually proven in story but seems consistent with the character) , and on the other hand, is actively practicing Dun Möch on Yoda, which... fails quite miserably.
With all that being said, Anakin Skywalker was, for all intents and purposes, an extremely skilled swordmaster who sadly was stifled in his potential. Ironically, I view a potential version of Vader, having his skills in all 7 forms, but with the mobility and technical ability of Mustafar Vader, to be the strongest Force user AND the most skilled duelist in the entire saga. But, as it stands, and while he is, again, an extremely skilled duelist, and easily in my top 5 in the entire saga, I don't think he's the best. And, for one, I do think that Jaina has pretty much surpassed him the moment she defeated Caedus. Not by much, buuuut... It's there.
Anyway, I loved this match-up! I know it's unlikely to ever happen, but would an Anakin Solo vs AOTC Anakin, or even TPM Obi-Wan, TPM Qui-Gon, or TPM Maul, depending on which one would be the most balanced - versus matchup could be possible? Or anybody you think would fare well against Anakin Solo? I've always wanted to see him used in a versus matchup :)
PhoenixExalt also stated that he believed Jaina's personal style to be based on Juyo.
Then she fades out of existence because she altered the timeline to such a degree that New Hope could not possibly happen as written.
1.)I thought Revenge if the sith went over the span of a week? ( not arguing, I just thought it was a short time frame.) I actually think it’s better if your right, but I just figured it was a short time span. 2.) I always looked at nic gallards system as more how he developed the choreography. Personally I like the fanalysis council’s rankings best, but I think part of the problem with Gallards is that it’s so poorly defined. 3.) match up ideas: Boba Fett vs Kir Kanos would be fun.( the Galaxy’s best bounty Hunter vs a master combatant trained to protect the emperor. ) Wolf Sazen vs Agen Kolar. Ki Audi Mundi vs Antares Draco. Darth Baras vs Darth Sion. Darth Marr vs Arcann. Din Djarin vs Jango Fett. Embo vs Fennec Shand. A’sharad Hett vs Ganner Krieg. Tholme and Quinlan Vos ( clone war) vs Darth Maul ( Phantom Menace). ( Maul was able to best Quigon jinn who was better than either while also besting Padawan obi wan. These two are a more even match up being tier 4’s with better tactics. I say Mail is skilled enough and powerful enough to beat them, but they are cunning and unpredictable enough to pull out a possible victory.) 4.) the Force Unleashed is the only Shaak Ti death that doesn’t suck and takes her power skill and council level mastery into account. From escaping Anakin to losing to starkiller, she is given much more respect.( Galen Marek may have won the fight by pure luck, but he was still council level in power and skill by the time of the duel. Even if only low level council.)
When you take the mandalore arc from tcw into account, it really does feel like just a week passes. The timeline there was always a bit confusing to me.
It's your opinion. Your wrong, much like Jensarri is wrong about Yoda, but I did enjoy the video.
Q&A 1: Hey Evan, I was just wondering. Since Jaina uses Black Force Lightning, what do you think Anakin Skywalker's reaction would be upon seeing Black Force Lightning?
Q&A 2: Do you think Sidious would be jealous of the fact that Jaina uses Black Force Lightning instead of him?
Q&A 3: Also, in the Mace Windu vs Darth Caedus Q&A video, why exactly do you consider Darth Vader to be one of the Sith that represent the chilling aspect of the Dark Side despite the fact that his prosphetic limbs gave him constant pain that has been said to fuel his rage and clouded his mind from thinking clearly as a result?
1. WTF
2. Yes. Per anakin's words to obi wan: "I HATE YOU!"
3. Because vader learned from arrogance and letting rage overtake you. He knew that fighting cautiously yields better results than being a rage fueled offensive durvish like bulq and tcw maul
12:04 Palpatine's coaching. Ok picture this. Palpatine, but gym teacher fat in a hoodie and sweatpants with a whistle.
Also, if someone was recording my face when you said Anakin was better than dooku. I wasn't expecting you to rank him that high to say the least.
Count Dooku? Anakin's first ever cold blooded murder? Are we not counting when he stepped out of the hut and Merc'd to unsuspecting Sand People? The rest of the warriors no doubt we're rallied and it was a fight at that point but what about the Tusken children that he slaughtered? Pretty sure they weren't really combatants. You could probably consider their slaying as pretty cold blooded too.
13:38 undoubtedly on a similar combative tier
So do you still hold the belief of anakin being a tier 3 from the council forcecast Post Mortem tier list or your opinions of him have changed and ranked him much higher? Because you later stated that anakin and obi wan in terms of pure saber skill were equals
What i dont understand is how Anakin and Obi force stalemate when Anakin should be at his most powerful in Rots but Dooku ragdolls the sht out of Obi everytime. This has always bothered me
@@silcoxjakob It's actually a measure of skill, or active defenses. Obi-Wan could use active telekinesis to parry or deflect force-attacks, even from Ventress or Anakin. Yet his passive defense was spotty, and Dooku was just so precise, focused and subversive he'd slip-in around that Active defense. In a nut shell, meeting power with power, but only if he can pull that power out in-time.
Kenobi has been depicted in some mediums to withstanding a Force-wave from Dooku, especially in TCW. It's like modern combat sports, whether somebody can parry or deflect punches and kicks, or hold a solid block; but those same defense-moves could be caught or trapped using grapples from a different kind of fighter.
@@silcoxjakob Dooku blindsided Kenobi.
Would love to see you go in depth on how strong full potential Anakin would have been if he continued his Jedi ways and/or how strong Vader would have been had he not lost to Obi Wan! I always hear you stress it but to have you break it down would really put into scope how badass Anakin/Vader are.
Thank you so much for all this amazing content!
17:20 HAHAHA!!!!!!!🤣
@Evannova95
Hopefully this makes it to ur Q and A but do you think jedi master Kavar would make a good candidate for the versus series? There is one fight using him on youtube that could help with ur analysis.
This is getting out of hand now there are two of them
I like that a fight between Skywalkers is so evenly matched, but I honestly would swap the very end personally.
The more the fight dragged on, the more angry it would make Anakin that he hasn't won yet. And I think him harnessing his darkness would brute Jaina eventually into at least a brief opening for Anakin to exploit fatally.
I just don't personally see any character in the franchise honestly other than Anakin who constantly gets stronger the more something drags on, instead of more tired.
All in all, great video, I'm very happy to have some consistent episodes back, but I would personally swap the very end of the fight myself.
Perhaps. Although, factoring in Jaina Solo-Fel's time with Mandalorians; which in the novels was heavily centred around the sparring arena, I disagree. Anakin was strong, but Jedi and Mandalorians were considered rivals for strong reasons; plus the Mando's Jaina spent time learning from were all veterans from teh Yuzzhan Vong War; the kind of warrior who "could eat Yuzzhan Vong for breakfast." PLus, Jaina would use Mandalorian Weapons (even a beskargam-sword) that could even trap Anakin's weapon or give her more avenues to fight with, similar to Darth Caedus' win over Mara Jade.
Plus, Jaina Solo-Fal has been depicted sparring with Saba Sabetyne, and multiple other NJO masters and Knights, including Lobacca and Saba Sabetyne (and latter whom she knocked on her Barabell Tail). If Anakin had more in-come with Darth Malgus, keeping his high-octane assault and getting inventive against tough foes, he'd stand a strong chance. Or other Jedi like WIndu would immediately break-off from their sabers if the fight is equal and turn to the Force (Sora Bulq, General Grevious, or Darth Sidious [Shatterpoint + Vapaad]).
Yet Anakin rarely gets creative if he runs into a hard foe, and only after somebody else throws their own powers at him. The higher Anakin dials it up, the less aware and opportunistic he becomes; while Jaina can dial her own out-put up to 11 or 12 without missing any beats, nook, cranny, or opportunity to give herself an advantage.
To Anakin, he learned from experience that winning comes from empowering yourself to the highest levels. To Jaina, she learned from Boba Fett that winning comes from finding a weakness, and exploit it.
@@geoffreyedgson7875 Fair Enough.
@@user-dg2ub7rn8i You know.....in this vein, perhaps Jaina Solo-Fel can be considered either the Black Panther, or Storm of Star Wars? Or do you see her abilities, demeanor and feats more in-line with another Marvel character?
@@geoffreyedgson7875 lol
slightly? really i think jaina would curb stop anakin in almost every way, its funny how if i hated the last jedi people i was labeled a sexist, no I love well written strong women, metra surik, or krea anyone, but yeah great vid as usual man
how
@@Redoren966 possibly I'm wrong but Anakin has a bad mindset his arrogance cost him so much were a weaker fighter in both the force and combat obi wan who barely made it into the order trained to become one of the best Jedi,look I love Anakin but his mindset holds him back but Evan knows more than I do, most know more than me
@@mithosirving That's when Anakin is full of dark side energy Anakin more than once does not display that arrogance again
@@mithosirving Obi-wan only barely didn't make it is because of his temper not his power infact he was a prodigy
You are literally overestimating Anakin's arrogance. Evan literally only stated it was a minor factor.
Love your vs series
Legends Grand Master Luke Skywalker vs Darth Vader and Darth Sidious. Would the jedi grand Master be able to prevail against the pinnacle rule of 2 sith?
I would honestly love to see Caedus vs Anakin. I think that could be an interesting fight considering their parallels.
Jaina solo is literally my favorite character them getting rid of her for the new movies is what made me the maddest I love her character
You never disappoint
Can you make a versus video between Anakin Skywalker by the time of Mustafar, and his son by the time of Dark Empire? I ask for this fight for a few reasons, and with a few disclaimers.
1. Yes, I have seen ROTJ, so I know that Luke defeated his father there. However, I also know that Vader was holding back on Luke, because he didn't actually want to kill his son, due to his emotional conflict at the time. I also also know that Vader wasn't nearly as powerful in the force as he was before Mustafar, so he was kinda nerfed in overall power anyway, during his fight with Luke in ROTJ (You can argue that Vader did overcome some of his weaknesses by that point with a new fighting style, and Vader (again) was holding back his full power when fighting Luke, meaning he could have slain Luke outright if he wanted to, but my original points still remain).
2. I'm talking Luke during Dark Empire, since GM Luke would have perhaps stomped his Pre-Mustafar father with no issue, but he wasn't nearly as powerful yet in Dark Empire, so the fight would be a little more equal (at least, in my opinion).
3. I'm aware of Antoine Bendele's old video analyzing these two at full potential, but the key words being "full potential" are highly emphazied here, because that's how he analyzed Anakin in that video, and I didn't agree with the verdict there anyway, because he over-emphasized Anakin's full potential in The Force, not his demonstrated feats like you do. I would like to ask you if you could make a video yourself about Anakin vs. Luke in a (shall we say) much more agreeable way than he did. No offense to him, but he could have analyzed that battle better than he actually did.
In the end, I would like a battle between either Luke Skywalker (Dark Empire), and Anakin Skywalker (Revenge of The Sith), or Luke Skywalker (Dark Empire) and Darth Vader (Return of The Jedi/No holding back), and see who would come out on top.
I just think Anakin is the Incredible Hulk of the Star Wars universe the madder he gets the stronger he will become it was brute force force choke and slam solo body everywhere
To be completely honest, I'm just happy Evan is still doing Legends stuff along with jensaarai1. They absolutely seem to hate the new movies and following Disney retcon Cannon BS. I am also one of those Disney Star Wars haters, and just want Disney to uncanonize everything that they have done, and bring back what we had before they decided to ruin Star Wars in such horrific tragic and pathetic way.
I've posted quite a lengthy comment yesterday, but TH-cam hates me when it comes to your videos and it doesn't appear.
So I'll just say it was an absolute blast of a match-up. It took a long time and there were a lot of obstacles, but you did it. Congrats man :)
I agree with pretty much everything. One factor you didn't mention in regard to the Invisible Hand duel is that Dooku was, at least initially, holding back against Anakin on Palp's order. Doesn't change much in the grand scheme of things, but worth mentioning regardless.
Oh, and I'm glad you pretty much disregarded Gillard's ranking. As much as I respect the guy, he contradicted himself way too many times to be considered a credible source.
Good video, however I do find myself disagreeing. Anakin is the superior combatant in my opinion.
I feel you exaggerated Jaina’s duelling performances, especially her final fights with Caedus, where you downplayed Caedus’s mental handicaps and severe injuries/cheap shots he received, which lead to his defeat.
On top of this I think you downplayed Anakin a little bit, for example his superiority over Dooku during their final fight was pretty large. Dooku had no chance of winning as he himself realised, which is pretty significant when you consider that Dooku can contend with Mace and Yoda to an extent.
I definitely think Jaina could give Anakin a good fight, but I don’t think she’d be able to overcome him and he’d overwhelm her in the end.
Kinda off topic, but would you favor Dooku in a 1v1 against Mace Windu?
Hey Evan. This was a really great video! Thanks for still giving us all this great content all these years later :D
I have a curious question for you (especially after watching your Kyp Durron vs Darth Plagueis video). Who would win in a Duel between Prime Darth Krayt and Prime Kyp Durron or Luke Skywalker? O-o
I would love to see a video discussing how the sequel trilogy of movies compare to Legends in terms of scaling. I think it'd be pretty funny.
Unfortunately, Evan like the rest of us despise the ST and any content related to such so that's not likely going to happen. Unless of course you mean as a joke, then by all means go ahead
I knew it....once again Jaina won.
I don’t think Dooku would count as Anakin’s first cold blooded kill given that he killed every last man, woman n child of the tribe of Tusken Raiders who killed his mother
@EvanNova95 Death Battle should definitely take some notes from you and your videos because you’re explanations and videos are incredibly phenomenal.
Darth Krayt vs Darth Vader. While outside of his armor Krayt rivals Sith like Sidious and Vitiate and would best Vader with only minor difficulty, I think Krayt in his armor would be a good match up for Vader, as while he is slightly stronger than Vader at this point, its a small gap. Their physicality, tactics and developed skill are roughly equal, though Krayt obviously has more experience due to living over a century longer.
“His first ever cold blooded murder”
The disrespect for that village of sand people he slaughtered in cold blood…
28:38 What about force lightning? I may be miss remembering but I think I heard somewhere that it's at least somewhat effective.
Jaina Solo vs Darth Vader can she survive though battle lightsaber dueling?
Man that was long! Very good analysis of all sections! My bet was on Anakin, but Jaina has definitely fought some tough opponents so she'd be in a good position to defeat him.
A phenomenal match up and analysis! Plus I enjoy both the characters very much, some of my favorites of their respective eras.
If Jaina wins, does this count as a grandfather paradox?
Amazing video as always!
However I dont know about duel with Caedus, if i remember correctly - he didint want to kill his sister and kinda threw the last fight, and was her duel with Kypp a battle to the death?
Then how about jaina helping Luke and coran horn to defeat an avatar of abeloth after several days of continuous fighting against the lost tribe of the sith while also being badly injured?
Evannova95 when will the Sith Lords video come out
Anakin being better with Djem So than Mace or Yoda isn't the accomplishment I used to think. No doubt he was an overall great sword master, but praising him for being better at the style he specializes in than two other masters who both specialize in different styles is like praising a mixed martial artiste who focuses on muay thai for being better than other fighters who are judo or bjj specialist with solid muay thai skills in their own right.
Yeah, or how a kickboxer has better striking than an MMA fighter with a background in grappling. I like the comparison
This guy think Anakin is not power full
Love this channel and these videos. Hope he does another collaboration soon
The chosen one would utterly smoke Jaina. Anyone who actually believes Jaina Solo could take her grandfather at any point, especially by the end of the clone wars, quite literally does not know Star Wars..
Also. Yes. Anakin WAS Windu’s superior. Nick Gillard’s tier system is somewhat correct whether YOU like it or not…. In no way does Windu have “far better dueling feats” than Anakin.. Anakin beheaded Dooku, who himself bested Windu multiple times even before he fell to the darkside and became that much stronger learning things from Sidious as mentioned in multiple sources. Not to mention, Anakin was literally even supposed to BE the one who fought and killed Windu, not Sidious. Where do you think the video game adaption gets that from dude? I know you’ve played it…. And are you actually trying to go by the comic adaption which completely contradicts the film and novelization? He didn’t even have both hands cut off in it and he did not beg for his life like that in any other adaption. No, Palpatine is not the reason Anakin beat Dooku. Stop. You go by the film and the novelization that was edited directly by Lucas.…. And no, Anakin dominated Kenobi the entire fight on Mustafar all the way up until the last second when he made one mistake due to his own tunnel vision which would not have ever happened in that state of mind. Kenobi had to “give ground” literally the entire fight. Anakin dominated the present battle, but his tunnel vision didn’t allow him to see the long game. And Kenobi led the fight to a place of his choosing while also having to give ground the whole time. He just backed up to where he needed to be and hoped he could hold out long enough until he got there. Which, Anakin barely misses the finishing blow right as Kenobi leapt away. He BARELY scratched out the “win” against him. He is FAR superior to Jaina as a swordsman. Like that’s not even remotely close. You are hilarious. Your bias is so blatant it almost isn’t even funny anymore.
“I dOnT gIvE a DaMn WhAt LuCaS sAyS”
“I dOnT gIvE a DaMn WhAt GiLlArD sAyS”
Lmfao, point proven…. YOUR fanboy opinion does not matter. Anakin Skywalker by ROTS, pre-suit Vader, was the most dominating swordsman in history. Nobody could withstand his onslaught.. Yes, Anakin most definitely could overcome Kenobi in a straight up saber duel and DID so multiple times in full contact sparring matches. He’s literally even beaten Kenobi AND Kit fisto at the same time before.. I mean just look at what Dooku did to Kenobi every single time they met. He blatantly ragdolled him in seconds. Every time. The same Dooku that Anakin rivaled throughout the course of the war and finally surpassed and beheaded by its end. Like this ain’t arguable. A comic adaption doesn’t trump the film it’s adapted from; and YOUR own opinion does not Trump George Lucas’s. This is no debate…. The fight is in no way “in Solo’s favor” , like at all. It’s in Anakin’s favor. You underestimate his tactical abilities to the Nth degree. He’s one of the most unorthodox tacticians there is. He was not always just hit everything head on like a sledgehammer…. Like I still love you you’re a funny dude it’s hard for me to get mad at you but like damn lol come on man. I know you’re a Jacen & Jaina fanboy and I admit I’m an Anakin fanboy, but like the whole reason I’m an Anakin fanboy is because he’s the GOAT. This can’t be serious. Anakin would wreck Jaina within one minute.
If you want to see the absolute pinnacle of Knightfall Anakin downplaying, go watch his new video about the council masters and skip to 1:05:44 in that video. I shlt you not, Evan straight up said that TFU Shaak Ti would “definitely” defeat Knightfall Anakin. You know, the version of Shaak that lost to pre prime Galen marek? Yeah Evan straight up confirmed 2 days ago that TFU Shaak would’ve killed Anakin during Operation Knightfall. I was watching that video and slapped my face after hearing that, but I thought “Oh shlt, what’s Daz Davis gonna say about this?”.
@@Wes_Bradley-Taubner lmfao. Yeah I haven’t watched that bullshit and I do not even remotely plan to at all everybody knows he was gona butcher their supposed “rankings” anyways. I don’t even watch this dude’s stuff anymore it’s literally just sheer headcanon. Zero in-universe fact at all
@@dazdavis7896 that’s for probably for the best.
I think anakin is overrated, but there’s a problem when I am all people am admitting that this guy is downplaying Knightfall Anakin to an extreme based on his insane bias towards Old Ben Kenobi and TFU Shaak Ti. Dude straight up said that old Ben and TFU Shaak should be above rots kenobi, mace, yoda and anakin.
Fantastic video Evan and great compassion's but don't you think anakin is s better duelist considering he absolutely stomped dooku and grew more powerful after that this was something Yoda couldn't do in DR. He also held back against dooku
Lol an Sidious told Dooku do not got all out on Anakin also like Dooku so weak link
@@patmiller6231 lmao dooku stopped holding back after the first clash read the novel bro
@@patmiller6231 on the top of my head he realised that his life was in danger and that his life was more important to sidious then Anakin so he went for the kill
Galen Marek vs Darth Malek
Exar Kun vs Darth Bane
Anakin vs Exar Kun
Revan vs Bane
Malek
Kun
Kun
Revan
Why?
Malek is just levels above in every way
Kun is too unorthodox for Bane
Kun and Anakin would be a good fight, but I think Kun would narrowly beat him
Revan is just too powerful for Bane
Okay that moment at 17:20 just made my day. Flawless
17:17 lmao
Do you consider scans/statements in novels or anything like that for your conclusions? Anakin has many scans placing him as the greatest Jedi of his day, one even states him one of the greatest of all time, (fastest, strongest, smartest, etc.) stated by the whills who exist outside of time, meaning this would immediately scale him to luke. Overall when taking these scans into debates, anakin has to be a (at the very least) top ten most powerful mortal
Potential vs Actual. If you have a power station that can supply the entire world with power but only use it to supply a small village, then it doesn't matter that the power station is the most powerful power station ever built.
Anakin has ALWAYS been treated as being at his potential with those scans/external comments by Lucas Films. Think of any sport, and you'll be able to find a player who wasn't as naturally talented as another yet go on to have a better career because the one with less talent worked harder.
Completely worth the wait ❤ can't wait for the next one 💯
HE IS BACK LETS GO FAM!
Quinlan Vos Vs Lucien Dray?
I love this video and all your video. It turns my bad days into great ones.
same.
Oh yeah! Good job man !!
All and all this is a decent match up.
This was an amazing vid Evan your first two parter if I'm not mistaking! I have a few suggestions for vids
#1 Darth Malgus vs Galen Marek
#2 Galen vs inquisitor jaric
#3 Pre Vizsla vs Din Djain
#4 Galen vs adult Ashoka Tano
#5 Galen vs Barriss Offee
Interesting suggestions
1. I’d say Malgus. Not disrespecting Galen, but Malgus has a laundry list of dueling feats and his Force abilities are arguably much stronger
2. Galen is definitely the superior duelist, but I think Jerec would win with his Force powers. The Inquisitor could undermine Galen’s focus with Force suppression and finish him off with Force Destruction, especially since Galen’s Force wall is nonexistent
3. This one would be a sight to see. On the one hand, I’d say these two are evenly matched in terms of skill and weaponry. On the other hand, I’d say Vizsla would get a slight edge due to the duels he took part in TCW
4. Another fight I’d love to see: the former apprentices of the fallen Chosen One. Personally, I say adult Ahsoka and Galen are roughly on par in martial skill and their respective dueling feats, but Galen would win thanks to his Force powers
5. Again, Galen would win on the back of his Force powers and mop the floor with Barriss (regardless as a Jedi or Dark Jedi)
@@darylsdesigns6679 adult ahsoka managed to fend off force attacks from palpatine, I don’t think Galen will have much of an edge since ahsoka has more experience
@@darylsdesigns6679 Literally forcing maul to put in a modicum of effort was amazing. Viszla was a badass in TCW, regardless if you loved the show or not. He was an incredible antagonist and character in general
4. Also agree. Ahsoka may or may not have shown some rudimentary levels of tutaminis or force barriers, given in that scene where she blocked palpatine's lightning to protect her and ezra in Rebels (though its honestly down to interpretation given how vague it was and it was never stated that she used tutaminis in that scene by the directors, Im assuming its force barriers she used given how extremely difficult tutaminis was even on the basic level against blasters and rarer against lightning and ahsoka may have been practicing with the force whenever possible during the empire)
, but she was clearly being overpowered and overwhelmed. She would force him to put in effort though before going down
@@jakealter5504 She was being overwhelmed though and couldn't hold off his lightning forever. Palpatine was also arrogant and wanted ahsoka and ezra to suffer before killing them. And with a bit of plot armor, they managed to get away.
@@lapplandkun9273 true but the fact that she was able to do that despite having had to fight maul, Vader, and inquisitors earlier that same day is what’s truly impressive. Surviving an encounter with maul, Vader, or sidious individually is pretty impressive, surviving back to back encounters with all three of them (which ahsoka did) is insane. I never said that ahsoka was on the same level as sidious when she held him off but the fact that she was able to do it for any amount of time shows how strong she was
Be cool to see what anikan would have been like if he had been in the old republic and old sith wars rather than palpatines period and what they done to shakk tii is vial she was an amazing jedi and extremely skilled and probs my fav jedi next to keria
KIR KANOS Vs Embo and Cad Bane. Hunter vs Jango Fett. Din Djarin vs Cad Bane. Alpha vs Captain Rex. Appo vs Hondo Karr. Jyn Erso vs Sabine Wren. Fives vs Bo Katan.( admittedly not the best match up, but Fives is my favorite clone and Bo Katan deserves some love.)
Looking back i find the best overlap and difference of Jaina and Anakin is
The venn diagram of Jedi guardian knights, the difference is that jaina is more of a hypotheical
mix of jedi and mandalorain warrior ,a mix of Anakin Skywalker and Jango fett.
2 other characters whom i love.
Where as i see Anakin as a hypothetical jedi viking. Swift, brutal and powerful but not without any sense
Of skill or technique.
Darth Caedus, Luke Skywalker, Kyle Katarn and Kyp Durron vs Palprotein, Bane, Malgus and Dooku.
or any combination thereof.
Darth Baras vs Darth Bane. Darth Zannah vs Celeste Morne( mir talismanic). Aryn Leneer vs deepa Bilaba.( while I actually like her portrayal in TCW, I think her legends variation is the better combatant.)
Could it be possible for me to do a podcast with you and the other council members?( you and Conner are the main ones because you two are my favorites but I like the others too.) I’d love a chance to talk Star Wars and other stuff with you guys. Anything from Star Wars favorite characters/ lightsabers/ villains and why or what are your favorite “canon” stories are.( yes I’m pissed about it to but some of their stories are very good.) or a list of 10 favorite women in Star Wars.( yes Rey will not be on it. But Ashoka Tano, Aryn Leneer, Celeste Morne, Sylvar, Darth Zannah, Jyn Erso, Assajj Ventress ( legends) and two others? Definitely.) or talk abou possible future match ups?
Dude, please use fate of the jedi era Leia in a video 🙏🏻
For Q and A what lead you to come up with good point in these videos how long do the sources take to build up your videos
Hey Evan! I versus idea a crossover battle between count dooku from star wars vs king bradley from fullmetal alchemist brotherhood
Hey Evannova been watching you for a while now! Love the video! Wanted to know if you would be interested in making a video on Teräs Käsi? I feel like you’d be great for it maybe with Jensaarai as well but regardless would like to see you do it!!!
I would love to see a versus video of Empire Strikes Back Vader vs Revenge of the Sith Kenobi.
It's been established that pre-suit Lord Varder loses to General Kenobi and that post-suit Lord Vader can beat Old Ben. But what if Post-Suit Vader, after he retooled his combat approach, took on Obi-Wan in his prime? Could the dark lord have his revenge?
EvaNova would you be down to play blade and sorcery the outer rim and show your gameplay I feel like that would be awesome!
Does sombody know waht Power Level Tiers EvenNova uses and when not EvenNova could you tell us?