And Wasp came up with the name for the Avengers in EMH just like the comics. Ant-Man and the Wasp were founding members in EMH and the comics, while the MCU had Ant-Man join in Civil War and the Wasp join in Endgame. And they weren't even Hank and Janet. Just their successors Scott Lang and Hope van Dyne.
Well Mcu is great but i just hate the wokeness despite of them having a great plot amd story, overused of diversity and gender swapping in tge name. Of female Empowerment Yup i preferred emh but live action phase 4 was kinda pointblank since phase 3 or atleast struggling but i just want to see how they handle MULTIVERSE thing
@@mememanbehindtheshadows546 dont forget quips honestly i like marvel movies but really can we just stop with that? What's wrong with telling a compelling without any comedy. Lightheartness sure but when everyone is making a joke it kinda makes the whole less serious then it should be
@@samuelrodriguez9801 The X-men would have appeared as well as the High Evolutionary. Wonder man would have returned as well. The creator of EMH laid out the season 3 episode titles as well as descriptions for each in 2020s anniversary of the show.
@@exmachin3926 To add to that, we would've also seen characters like Nova and the Brotherhood of Mutants. Based on the episode summaries we got, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were going to become regular members of the team.
I never thought about the end of each story. I do like how EMH does it better, but I do prefer how Loki was written over Graviton. I recently rewatched EMH, and there were definitely things it did better (cough cough Ultron), but also things is did less well. It’s cool to see two very valid universes, and it’s a shame EMH couldn’t finish its run.
@@PillarofGarbage Meh, I actually think Loki’s kinda overrated, and that villains like Zemo, Kang, the Enchantress, The Leader, and Ultron were way better.
I mean, Loki is essentially the real villain of episode 1 (and season 1 as a whole) since he's the one who caused the breakout that freed gravitron (plus the 74 other villains). It's the biggest similarity between EMH, the MCU Avengers and the original comic: in all 3 of them, the Avengers are formed after fighting a big threat directly caused by the machinations of Loki (the Hulk in the original comic, Gravitron in EMH and the Chitauri in the MCU). In that way, it's best to think of Gravitron as less of the Loki of EMH ep.1 and more as the Chitauri of the first episode. He's the big dragon launched by Loki that the Avengers can't beat individually and that serves to highlight how strong they can be together. Granted, if you just watch ep.1 on it's own, Gravitron really is the only bad guy and you wouldn't even know that Loki's involved. But that's why it's tricky to compare a movie with a tv show episode. The former is longer and mostly self sustained (tho relatively speaking for the MCU) while the latter is much shorter and *asks* that you watch the other episodes for context. And while Gravitron might not be that strong of a standalone one-off villain, he works perfectly as a piece of the bigger puzzle that is EMH season 1.
Im so glad there is someone giving this show the praise it deserves. With the MCU most people seem to have forgotten about the good marvel cartoons. If I may be so bold to ask could you make a video comparing the founding members of the Avengers in the MCU and EMH and how they bring different things to the team. My pet peeve with it is that without the Wasp(who was my favourite) there isn't anyone on the team who has fun and cheery. MCU team has no heart in my opinion.
That's a good point, and a good idea for a video - my next few vids are already (partially) made, but I'll try to make one like that sometime soon - and of course, I'll give you credit for the idea :)
I thin that is the problem with both the MCU and especially the DCEU. There are quips and bathos in Marvel that are entertaining but also a bit formulaic. DCEU is just a dreary mess at it's worst and pretty good at imitating Marvel at it's best (Aquaman is basically a remixed Black Panther).
@@vernonhampton5863 I dont think there was any issues with toys. It was cancelled to make way for Avengers Assemble. Tho it can be argued that if there were 2 different avengers the one that resembeled the movies would sell more toys.
I think its an "expectations" thing. That live-action is were everything is taken seriously, so all the characters are either irreverent to the weirder stuff from the comics or are reimaged to be completely different from their comic selves, (which I think is something left over from how they approached the first Iron-Man that has annoyingly persisted). Its an approach that's quite bizarre ,not being serious in an effort to be taken serious, especially when compared to the Batman, X-Men and Spider-Man, which did take their material seriously but also poked fun at it as well. _"This is starting to sound like a bad comic book plot."_ for example. For a while now I've seen these as the MCU's biggest flaw, that lack of reverance, the samey meta humour, and overcompensation to be "grounded" when so much insanity has already been portrayed. It kinda undermines what their trying to do.
Wanna know a big difference between the two? Hulk as a character. With personality and agency. It's one thing having 5 or 6 characters with a giant bag of muscle but those same characters and a heavily misunderstood and intimidating literal double personality character means a lot. One of my faves moments was when hulk identified an energy signature to be cosmic radiation to Tony and he was just floored.
Wasp was my inspiration for Fairy Girl. And because I couldn't work out the shrinking physics and I just liked seeing Wasp small in the show, I made Fairy Girl permanently small. While giving her the strength of Supergirl!
@@SeanWheeler100 Ok creator thats genuinely interesting but you can't just throw it out there; like I don't even know if you mean a book, a game or a post card.
@patientnr.0409 Huh? Why are you a fan of Hawkeye when the character is nothing more than a meme? You know, Marvel's already lampshaded countless times how much of a meme and a liability Hawkeye is in the comics and in especially the MCU. Everyone just views Hawkeye as pedestrian, boring, and useless.
@@rustyshackelford4224 Bro don't come to me to cope, so many marvel comics in the last 5 years sucked ass so who cares if it hit Clint too also this doesn't change his portrayal in EMH in the slightest since this is an isolated story.
Hell yeah, this is hands down the best Marvel animated series out there, even better than the 90's X-Men and Spiderman (sacrilege, I know) It's nothing short of criminal that it didn't get more seasons. Is it better than the MCU though? ... Well, I'd say yeah, mostly. Or at least on par with most of it. I definitely prefer the initial group setup here. It just seems more natural, and I love that it sets itself in an already established world. Nothing wrong with origin stories per say, but having to wade through 4-5 of em' before every crossover event gets tiring, especially at feature film length. Plus, NO STUPID SCENE-RUINING FORCED JOKES AND POP CULTURE REFERENCES! That alone makes this show superior to me.
It would've been awesome if Iron Man or Nick Fury had recruited Ant-man and the wasp in Avengers Age of Ultron, and in Civil war Yellowjacket could've been on Iron Man side while Wasp is on Cap's side. this could have made more sense for the MCU since Ant-man is responsible for Ultron and they would have gotten more heroes in Civil war.
That could work, if Antman has a different origin movie or was introduced in the same way Hawkeye and Black Widow was in the MCU. Unfortunately the MCU used Yellowjacket as the villain to fight Antman and Yellowjacket wasn’t Hank. But he was only seen mostly as a mentor to Scott.
@@larryfoulkeofficial8609 I meant more as in, as each villain is introduced with their backstory, it could have a direct link to the Battle of New York in the Avengers. Similar to how they did the backstory for Kate in the Hawkeye series.
A similar plot thread could have been loki raving about how he isnt alone and more will come for the stones ( only he knows about the infinity stones at this point) and before thor takes loki back brice banner stops them he says if what loki says is true then we have to be ready, not to just avenge our friends ( refrencing coulson) but ready to avenge the planet, if more are coming we need to be ready to stop them, At this point black widow could hand out a comms device Each sperate but with the intention of reuniting
I really liked this show. It was one of the most accurate portrayals of the characters we know and love joining the team along with their villains. I have some problems with the show like Tony being stupid early on but glad they fixed that later on.
That’s an exciting idea! I’d want to do it justice though, so if I do ever make that video it’ll be if and when a truly good enough set of ideas comes to me :)
@@Joseph_Drew_III def ragnarok Bc in season 2, we saw surtur make the twilight sword. Also, a good idea is to introduce the X-men, explore the effects of the main conflict of season 2 (secret invasion), and Introduce characters like dr strange, nova, magneto. Another thing you could do is expand the concept of the registration act, which could lead up to civil war in possibly season 4. Annihilation would also be perfect for the marvel cosmic universe
One of my favorite parts about how this show sets up the Avengers and the wider Marvel universe is its willingness right out of the gate to embrace the wacky world of comics. From the get-go heroes and villains just exist, and that does a lot for me compared to the MCU. The MCU starting with the first Iron Man really felt like a world that was just starting off, when you watch that first film it never feels like there were any characters prior to Iron Man, and I find that the more they go back and add characters set in the past it feels pretty clunky because it never felt like a world where anything like that existed prior to that first Iron Man film. Captain America I'd say is the one instance where it worked because it was so far removed due to just how far back it was set, but Captain Marvel still has me scratching my head a bit trying to line that film up with the wider MCU. I feel like the 'casualness' of EMH is maybe its greatest strength in many ways, characters from the wider Marvel universe can just show up with no backstory or setup required, you need a Masters of Evil, boom they already exist, and in doing so that immediately establishes each hero as having their own little universes going on without needing a whole episode (or film in the MCU's case) explaining them. It also makes it so easy for other characters to show up like the Fantastic Four and just saying in one exchange that Doctor Doom exists and they've been enemies for years, it feels so natural within the world. It's strange that I feel the MCU has still struggled to capture this since so many other superhero films have. The Incredibles is a great example where you don't see much, but there's enough subtle touches that clearly establish the world as being full of heroes and villains. I get the MCU wanting to have a real world grounding point to help audiences relate to it, but I feel it slows down a lot of things, like you said it feels like the team somewhat stops being a team at the closing of that first film, and it never really feels like the Avengers either on their own or as a team do much between films. I'm still waiting for a villain who we as the audience have never seen before in the MCU to show up, but whatever hero they're fighting is just like 'oh yeah, I've fought them before'. The closest I feel we've got to that is the Thor films but even then they're rarely what I'd call casual encounters built upon an unseen history.
Thank you so much for making this video. Yes, EMH is a great show, I miss that show so much, and i personally prefer EMH's take on the Avengers than MCU's.
EMH pilot is right from the "New Avengers" comic issue 1 with the same name. But it was a different team. Spider-man, Captain, Iron-man, Lake Cage, Spider-woman and the Sentry and Wolverine.
It’s definitely heavily inspired by New Avengers - but the classic lineup and the ultimate cause being Loki show a really cool blending of the classic and new Avengers’ origins!
I think 2012 Avengers definitely could've used a warning towards existing threats... maybe use the stones to their advantage more in that regard? Have the mind stone give someone visions of possible threats like Wanda eventually does in Age of Ultron, or have Iron Man explicitly see far more of the universe and the threats out there on his way back through the portal.
The video has only been out for an hour and you already passed the 1k subs asked for in the end. Congrats! The videos I've seen have been really good! You totally deserve more success and I wish you the best of luck!
And now I have the EMH theme tune stuck in my head... Our world's about to break Tormented and attacked Lost from when we wake With no way to go back I'm standing on my own But now I'm not alone (Avengers Assemble!)
The problem with MCU is that it focuses too much on humour, the villians are rarley a threat aside from a very few ones, some of the main characters in the MCU have been done dirty with poor handling & writing like The Hulk, Spider-Man & Thor for example. While Avengers: Earth's Migtiest Heroes on the other hand, actually respected the original source material & was a show made for both old & new fans alike. I still prefer Earth's Mightiest Heroes over a lot of the majority of the MCU films, because it was actually good show & treated the characters of the original comics with respect. While MCU over time showed it's true colours that the films are just made to milk money from consumers who a lot of them have this mind set: "Don't ask questions. Just consume product & then get excited for next products." But that's just my own personal opinion.
Dude I love these EMH videos they're so interesting to listen to when Im doing something they make me want to rewatch the entire series and properly go examine everything I probably missed. (Also whats the song for the outro it slaps and makes me stay on your video to the last second.)
Thanks, I appreciate it, there's more coming soon! The outro is just a loop I made - combining a piano sample and a drum sample from looperman, and recording a couple of guitar layers myself on top. So I'm glad you like it - but unfortunately it doesn't really exist outside of these videos, so I can't really link you to anything!
@@PillarofGarbage It sounds amazing bro can't believe you did the outro yourself. Knowing that it doesn't exist outside of the videos means I just gotta keep watching your vids to hear that awesome outro. Keep up the work man can't wait to see more of your vid you definitely earned a sub here.
I think I would have changed three things with the first Avengers movie to better set up the team: 1 - Loki says that some greater force won't stop - a "you may have won today, but he'll win the war" 2 - Tony and Thor take Loki seriously and try to form the team, however, SHIELD/Hydra have other concerns which creates discord (this could be discussed in the credit scenes) 3 - The team is formed, but sent to different locations - Thor to Asgard w/ Loki, Tony and Bruce stay put for now, and Steve joins Natasha and Clint at SHIELD; however, the team is largely split over the next course of action and it should be displayed in later movies As for how the team is split - I would say that Tony, Clint, and Thor are on one side (being prepaired) while Steve, Natasha, and Bruce are on the wait and see side. Other than the issue of fitting MCU Hank and Janet into the story, I do think it would have been cool to see Hank and Janet as part of the Avengers rather than making them older Avengers. It would have been cool to see or mention more Avengers during Age of Ultron. If the long term anger was removed (or at least less strong), then it could even work for an older Hank to have worked with Tony and Bruce on the Ultron Project, but then Age of Ultron creates the bitterness when Scott becomes Antman (it would need to be done right, but could work). I think it would also help if Ironman II was rewritten to mention an increase in large scale crime, which could be part of the reason for Tony's dislike of SHIELD. I would also increase the number of Avengers before Civil War so that we could exclude Clint and Scott (let them be retired/part-time rather than betray their families). I'm debating changing Ironman III to have Tony talking with Clint rather than Bruce, or maybe both Clint and Bruce (I want to include Clint in more than just the team up movies, but I don't think he fits in for the action in the three movies before Age of Ultron). The movies after Civil War are where changes will need to be bigger, but I also think that some of the movies can still happen. Also, if Avengers Asssembled was supposed to be connected to the movies, then I would have the events of Avengers Assembled be reworked so that it was additional canon information, but wasn't required for the movies to make sense. Avengers Assembled would be where the other Avengers get introduced, we get more backstory for Clint, we meet villains that aren't in the movies, and the original six are not the focus. In fact, Thor wouldn't appear until the end of Season 1 or beginning of Season 2. Each season would try to fill in events between the movies, so we could get some of the aftermath of the first movie, then how Tony helps before rebuilding the armor, and by the end of Season 2, Hydra bases are being wiped out regularly (Age of Ultron implied that this was a regular thing and could motive people to watch the show). Seasons 3 and 4 would show the increasing number of superhuman individuals and show the difference between Tony and Steve leading up to Civil War. Maybe add another two seasons before Infinity War, and this set focuses on the after math of the Civil War and brings in the last new heroes (I'm less set on having this set, but it would make sense to have some). After Infinity War and Endgame, there could be a season for the initial aftermath of the Snap and then wrap up with some of what happened during the time skip (I'd love to see some more Tony with Pepper and Morgan as well as how he hung up the suit). If the movies and Avengers Assembled had been planned out more for interconnectedness, then I think it could have worked well to have the TV show run with the movies. This way there was some extra information as well as a potential for more hype around the movies as well. Only the TV show would rely on the movies, but the movies could make small nods to the TV show.
Avengers: EMH, JL/JLU, Young Justice, Spectacular Spider-Man, Teen Titans, X-Men Evolution and Wolverine & the X Men was my childhood. Also, how in any show or movie, Thor always gets the greatest of the entrances?
I feel the main thing that I think EMH did more than MCU for the Avengers is that they actually function at a team. In the MCU they mostly really cooperate out of obligation to take down a big threat and make it very clear they don't get along outside of those times. Ik that's what they were going for, but it's hard for me to root for the team when they are so dysfunctional and butt heads with one another. EMH on the other hand, they trust and support each other and even spend free time with one another. That feeling of found family really resonates with me more than the begrudged feel the MCU Avengers ever could.
Maybe something the MCU could have done was make the alien attack truly change the entire world. Organizations like AIM, HYDRA, maybe even Hammer Industries could salvage and use the alien technology to create weapons and advance their technology (basically what Vulture did in Homecoming, but on a bigger scale). This would give them incentive to keep the team together continuously. Maybe even use it as a way to introduce villains that have been around for a while but have been under the radar until the Avengers start actively dealing with threats in their free time. They also could have had events in Agents of Shield have more of an impact on the movies (seriously, there is never even a single mention in the movies about inhumans and how they were showing up worldwide)
I think a problem the MCU has always had is that everything started off in a completely normal world, where every superhuman and/or supernatural occurrence needs to be explained and justified. In my opinion, it would've been better to start off in an Incredibles-like world, or in a world like the EMH one itself, where superpowered people behind every corner are the norm already, and the Avengers are simply a group of them deciding to hang out together.
My only complaint about EMH is I would have liked to have seen more of the escaped villains. What if say Winter Soldier tracks down Red Skull, except it's the Chameleon? Or Falcon has a tense air battle with Vulture and the Vulterions? Have the Masters of Evil take over the mansion like they did in the comics with Hercules being almost killed, then soon after introduce the Thunderbolts. I know that the show didn't last long enough for all that, but it would have been nice.
Honestly, I don't think adding a moment like that would be a good idea for the MCU. It worked great for EMH, but in the MCU I don't think it would be feasible for a simple reason: they have different goals. EMH's episode seeks to start a show where the status quo is an avengers team working together to combat a threat. This is a good setup, and it requires a moment like the show has to justify. However, the MCU does not want that status quo. The first avenger's movie seeks to set up a status quo of various tangentially connected movies starring one or two heroes, with occasional events where the "avengers" actually do anything as a group. I like this format for the MCU because it allows new people to jump in on a random solo movie, and because it makes avengers movies feel special. This only works because "the avengers" are barely a thing. They started as a onetime gig and transformed into a group that works together every so often but mostly each member does their own thing. If you put a moment like you have in EMH, and then proceeded with the MCU format, it would feel completely wrong.
I personally think EMH as a whole can Top anything the MCU brings. But the entire MCU as a whole, well EMH can't really compete with a decades worth of movies, shows, and content. So personally I love them both it's just there are somethings both universes did good and bad. Well EMH the probs only bad thing in my opinion is that the 2nd season finale felt kinda rushed and the set up for more seasons went to waste...
i cant express how happy I was to find your channel and all the love you give EMH. i was the only kid who watched it in my friend group, everyone else would rather just watch the movies instead but my true love was THIS show
When it comes to the main difference you talked about, I think that ultimately comes down to the type of medium the MCU is compared to the show. EMH at its core is an Avengers animated series that planned to continue telling stories about the team. The MCU on the other hand is a movie franchise beyond just the Avengers. It’s a shared Marvel universe including those of solo and group movies. They had the team go their separate ways so they can star in their own solo movies because team up films with ensemble casts like the Avengers probably needed build up in the eyes of the producers. These ensemble movies were meant to be like big series finales or comic crossovers. That’s why I’m fine with how the MCU handled that front.
There's definitely some truth to what you're saying! I am planning to talk about this in a future video, though, as I think it's a little more complex.
@@PillarofGarbage Some of the things I think EMH handled better is tone. It has a good consistent tone that’s light-hearted but doesn’t seem to talk down to its audience. I’m not one of those people that think humor = bad but the MCU tends to have a problem where it tries too hard to be funny or puts in comedy where it’s not needed. We can have a broken depressed Thor in Endgame without making him the butt of many fat jokes. (Also Hulk in this show is 10x funnier than the “comedic” MCU Hulk and he’s not even trying)
Eh. I don’t think The Avengers needed that moment. It’s a little too “tell, don’t show”. Besides, we see Thanos towards the end, which gives us a face for future machinations in store. We see Tony converting Stark Tower into Avengers tower. And Fury even says the Avengers will be back “because we’ll need them to”. It would have felt redundant.
Yeah, I don't think it would have been feasible to have the MCU Avengers be a team that sticks together (like in EMH) instead of a group of people who meet occasionally (like it is in MCU). The reason is that it wouldn't be possible to output so many films as the MCU has done if each and one of them had ALL of the big-name stars who comprise the Avengers cast, because those actors are quite expensive (and busy).
Interestingly, Red Skull was supposed to be the villain for the MCU Avengers(or at least I'm pretty sure that was the initial plan). Which means the plot to CONTINUE the team after the film could have been the search for Hydra (something we did kinda get in Winter Soldier).
The problem is that the movies didn’t want them to be a permanent team. For multiple reasons. 1 they weren’t sure if it would succeed. 2 they wanted to have future solo films. Partially if the Avengers didn’t work out, and even if it did the solo movies would also make them more money. So if the movie ended with them still together it actually would’ve hindered their plans for the franchise.
Was Breakout the pilot? I remember there being episodes before it like the one where Iron Man fights Hydra after it attacks the UN and which Chekhov’s Guns the existence of the Raft when Hill asks Fury if the other supervillain prisons were the same as The Vault only for Fury to say “all four are different” “Four? I thought there were only three” and the one where Hulk fights Absorbing Man only to get captured by Hulkbusters and warns Doc Samson “they’re trying to make more of me” and the one where Klaue confronts Ant-Man and Ant-Man laments that “no one wants to talk things out anymore”. And the one where Thor goes back to Asgard to fight Loki and gets into a kerfuffle with his father Odin. It’s been a while since I watched it but didn’t those episodes happen before Breakout?
I think, technically, breakout is the pilot, but there were individual mini-episodes released beforehand which would later be retrofitted into the pre-breakout episodes you’re talking about.
I know it’s been said a lot already, but having Hank and Janet there really is everything. Scott is nice but besides Reed Hank is the man of science and Tony had to carry all that unfortunately.
There's a lot of similarities between the worlds presented in EMH and the world presented in the animated movie Next Avengers: Heroes of tomorrow. Do you think that's where it all leads? Is that the future of these characters?
I’d just like to remind everyone that Reed Richards has smacked his wife and child multiple times. This is important because the reason Hank Pym isn’t a main character in these movies is because they didn’t want to use him because of that
They're both great, but the MCU had to leave room for heroes to continue their own individual films, so it makes perfect sense that they didn't stay a team right away
a plot threat that could keep the avengers united, could be the tesseract. If after the end of the movie they somehow lost it. The reason they are united in age of ultron is because of loki's scepther that also has an infinity stone. They got the thief, fot havent found the money. And that thing already caused so much destruction in the planet since how long.
One thing I liked about this show is this one comment made about a villain. Small time villain. Whirlwind is a guy who had the power to rotate himself and turn into somewhat of a tornado. Basically he turns into Taz from looney toons. Anyway, someone in shield was going over his file (Since he escaped) and was reading facts, and in doing so admitted that Whirlwind was a mutant. Not only was this something I did not know about the guy, this was the first animated series, aside from Spider-Man meeting the X-Men, that acknowledged that they were in the same world. Most cases they forget the other exists. X-Men evolution came out years earlier, and turns out Captain America was fighting Nazis shoulder to shoulder with Wolverine and saving a child Magneto from a concentration camp. I watched this show WAY late. 2012 We Need More Of This Shit!!! Webs of world building FITTING together.
Isnt the similar plot thread the MCU should have had sorta self evident? We know Thanos was gonna be the big bad somehow by then already, heck we know Loki was working for someone interested on Earth for reasons. Thor fucks off immediately to deliver Loki and see what Asgardian intel has to say, Earth based heroes form a network so they have a better chance of figuring out, maybe oust a few other potential unknown big boss agent. Would evne make agr of ultron stronger, since now Tony's secret plan connects to the overall mcu plot, not just a "i got secret ptsd from the nyc stufd btw, amd workes behind everyone back sorta". It is "this was what i was working on for this pet project of ours, didnt feel like i needed to ask anyone else but the fellow science man".
Emh felt more like a team than the mcu avengers coz they did the little things as well eg stopping a random villain on the street frequently. The only time the mcu avengers gather is for a extreme level threat eg ultron and thanos
I think they could have really easily done something similar to EMH by just having Loki make an offhand comment after his capture about "his boss" or something. Give both Shield and the Avengers reason to stick together to figure out who it was that set everything up. Even after everyone learns it's Thanos, they could still have been turned to "Ok, so Thanos apparently has plans. We don't know how many of them are on Earth, so we're going to work together to find all possible leads and work to stop whatever it is he's planning. From there they can work out he's looking for some kind of powerful items, eventually working it down to the infinity stones, even if they don't know what they are until later. Have them be proactive in the search, have Ultron come out not just from Tony and Bruce trying to make the global peace AI, but also trying to understand what the mindstone can do; maybe as a way to try and figure out whatever his plan could be (even if truthfully they have no way to figure it out from one or two infinity stones beyond "he needs a lot of power for something," they have no idea what the stones can do realistically, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't try). Have them finally put everything together shortly before or at the start of infinity war after noticing there is another similar energy signature in New York (Dr. Strange and the Time Stone), have them try and figure out whats going on and have Strange and Wong explain things like they did at the start already. Boom. You now have an active thread connecting the events of the movies to one another while keeping the plots basically the same and also now giving the team a reason to work together over a longer period of time. Just my personal thoughts though.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you overall and I love EMH to death, but simply due to the MCUs need for solo movies, it wouldn't be as clean if the avengers stayed "fixed" more or less as a team. It could be written around, sure, but it would've probably been more trouble than it was really worth for the writers of the MCU, whereas it makes perfect since in EMH because it's literally an avengers show
I'm actually planning on (indirectly) talking about this issue in another video soon. It won't be the next EMH video I put out, but it will likely be the one following that.
I think there's pros and cons to both, but EMH definitely weaves it into the world and plot better in my opinion - it's set up well in advance and continues to effect the world afterwards. That being said, most of the time you know for certain who's real and who isn't, which is maybe a missed opportunity?
Yeah totally agree with your closing comments. Like, where was the lead up to AoU? Could Stark have been more sassy about Steve dropping his shield at TWS; raiding more facilities to find the sceptre; more Shwarma moments... Its the little things we come back for.
What would keep the avenger's together at the end of the movie? *Cracks neck* here's an idea: The mind stone and the space stone touch tearing through the avengers. Hulk can't turn back to banner, the arc reactor malfunctions leaving Tony's brain half relying on Jarvis, Steve becomes blind but sees his past life on replay, old spy conditioning wipes Natasha's mind and she becomes a near mindless weapon, all of Clint's remaining arrow heads go off behind his back causing all sorts of injuries, and Thor gets trapped inside of Mjölnir. They are all sent to a high-tech, Shield, medical/R&D facility, but the doctors can't help them, they have to lean on each other to get back to being themselves for a 3rd act battle against as member of staff who used to be a prisoner/patient, and clues of their stay at the facility are littered everywhere.
I mean after avengers marvel didnt really spend time with origins for some other their other big name villains like zemo, task master, cross bones, the "mandarin" ect. We could have had a scene on the helicarrier at least name dropping a few of these characters as being possible threats giving the avengers the intuitive to track them down and the plus side with the villains not appearing out of no where and dieing in the movies they appeared in
I think probably the big reason for why the Avengers all split off to do their own thing at the end of the movie was that all the movies that follow are more solo adventures, like how Thor: Dark World is about just Thor, or Iron Man 3 is about just Iron Man. The Avengers movies are supposed to be big events, and keeping the heroes apart until those big events lets those events feel even grander, but I do think that robs us of more interactions between the heroes. I do wish that after Avengers 2012, they used the Avengers as an excuse to have heroes show up in other characters' solo movies more often, like Hulk in Thor: Ragnarok or the rest of the Avengers in Captain America: Civil War, but with phase 3 come and gone, I guess we'll just have to hope for the future movies to be better.
You're probably right, but the comics have been able to make the team/solo dynamic work for a long while now. I think there's definitely a way the MCU could have hit a similar balance. But who knows!
This difference is the epitome of the disparity of medium. With shows and comics, they are built on the premise that *something* will always come next, that the current issue will have a follow up, but with movies they are built to have a beginning and an end, with as few dangling threads as possible. Its partially why so many superhero movies don’t translate perfect between adaptions, as movies are always trying to create a resolution, when in comics there is no need for one. EMH ends on a note of: there are all these villains, so “we have to be there” MCU ends on a note of: the big threat at the end is defeated, so in future “we will be there” This difference is a subtle one, but one is open ended, and one is conclusive, which aligns with the core disparities between sparse unserialized mediums, and dense plot driven mediums
I think that’s the point of the end of the Avengers, they *aren’t* a full-time team. It’s not until the events of the Winter Soldier that Captain America & Black Widow realize they need a full-time Avengers team outside of SHIELD, to track down and defeat Hydra. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Cap & Widow are the only Characters of the original 6 that stay on the Avengers after Hydra is defeated (and later, after the snap).
I guess it’s whichever setup you prefer. The MCU set up the Avengers as a team that would only assemble when the stakes were high enough that the world was in danger. The EMH cartoon set up the Avengers as a team that would continually work together, and even live together, in order to defend the world on a day-to-day basis. I suppose with the more grounded tone of the MCU, the Avengers being a non-constant team makes a bit a more sense.
So, I always said that the DC movies could have done something similar (and they kinda did) to this idea, patterned after the Legends mini after Crisis on Infinite Earths. This will have spoilers for a comic book that came out in 1985. In Legends Darkseid and The Phantom Stranger have a bet (sorta) that humanity will turn on the superheroes and turn to Darkseid after Darkseid does a number of manipulative attacks and such. If this were to translate to the movies, it could easily be a film for each hero that uses various Apokolips generals and have them mentioned in passing in the other films via Glorious Godfrey. Wonder Woman facing off with Granny Goodness and the Female Furies, Aquaman facing Mantis and Deep Six. Intergang in Metropolis and Gotham as Kanto faces Batman and Kalibak faces Superman. Even the Suicide Squad would fit in, as they were introduced in Legends. Only comic book fans would see the connections (until the Internet spoils this) and it brings the team together to form the League as they did in the Snyder film. The threat would still persist after that film, so they have a reason to fight individually and then later together. Okay, yes, I am a DC fan. But it would and still could be a model for the MCU (and it just may be, if this multiverse story line is what it seems). The problem is very much two-fold. One, the films are films and not a TV series, where you need to watch all to know what's going on. And two, TV has a single vision guiding it and all the episodes, where each film has a vision based on their own team, even if there is a single person guiding them.
@@rustyshackelford4224 im not a big marvel fan but wheni took alook on the comics i saw that MCU is not always so comic book accurate unlike many Marvel projects.
Another thing EMH did better is use Hank and Janet properly
And Clint, this cartoon is the reason that I started to like Hawkeye.
I miss the Young Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne soooooooooo much
Also, favorite version of Black Panther. Period.
And Wasp came up with the name for the Avengers in EMH just like the comics. Ant-Man and the Wasp were founding members in EMH and the comics, while the MCU had Ant-Man join in Civil War and the Wasp join in Endgame. And they weren't even Hank and Janet. Just their successors Scott Lang and Hope van Dyne.
@Romanogers4ever floormat? hank was a really good villain.
Me looking at the MCU: This is brilliant
Me looking at EMH: But I prefer this
Well Mcu is great but i just hate the wokeness despite of them having a great plot amd story, overused of diversity and gender swapping in tge name. Of female Empowerment
Yup i preferred emh but live action phase 4 was kinda pointblank since phase 3 or atleast struggling but i just want to see how they handle MULTIVERSE thing
@@mememanbehindtheshadows546 dont forget quips honestly i like marvel movies but really can we just stop with that? What's wrong with telling a compelling without any comedy. Lightheartness sure but when everyone is making a joke it kinda makes the whole less serious then it should be
@@flamestorm31 yeah the JOKE
@@mememanbehindtheshadows546 So you hate made up problems?
I love EMH style of animation I don't know why more shows don't use it or use a similar one.
It's kind of insane how we'll this show did not just the avengers but the whole of marvel
They even seemed to foreshadow the X-men potentially appearing if the show continued.
@@samuelrodriguez9801 Wolverine did appear in a couple of episodes.
@@joshheralal8758 oh yeah I forgot.
@@samuelrodriguez9801 The X-men would have appeared as well as the High Evolutionary. Wonder man would have returned as well. The creator of EMH laid out the season 3 episode titles as well as descriptions for each in 2020s anniversary of the show.
@@exmachin3926 To add to that, we would've also seen characters like Nova and the Brotherhood of Mutants. Based on the episode summaries we got, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were going to become regular members of the team.
"You're... helping me?"
"Yeah! Now hit him!"
I never thought about the end of each story. I do like how EMH does it better, but I do prefer how Loki was written over Graviton. I recently rewatched EMH, and there were definitely things it did better (cough cough Ultron), but also things is did less well. It’s cool to see two very valid universes, and it’s a shame EMH couldn’t finish its run.
Yeah, Graviton is a cool villain but he was a bit rushed here - and I definitely agree that Avengers Loki was a top-tier villain!
@@PillarofGarbage Meh, I actually think Loki’s kinda overrated, and that villains like Zemo, Kang, the Enchantress, The Leader, and Ultron were way better.
Emh loki is actually pretty fuking good too
@@miracles4219 Wasn’t dissing him, just wanted all the other villains to also get the respect they deserve
I mean, Loki is essentially the real villain of episode 1 (and season 1 as a whole) since he's the one who caused the breakout that freed gravitron (plus the 74 other villains).
It's the biggest similarity between EMH, the MCU Avengers and the original comic: in all 3 of them, the Avengers are formed after fighting a big threat directly caused by the machinations of Loki (the Hulk in the original comic, Gravitron in EMH and the Chitauri in the MCU).
In that way, it's best to think of Gravitron as less of the Loki of EMH ep.1 and more as the Chitauri of the first episode. He's the big dragon launched by Loki that the Avengers can't beat individually and that serves to highlight how strong they can be together.
Granted, if you just watch ep.1 on it's own, Gravitron really is the only bad guy and you wouldn't even know that Loki's involved. But that's why it's tricky to compare a movie with a tv show episode.
The former is longer and mostly self sustained (tho relatively speaking for the MCU) while the latter is much shorter and *asks* that you watch the other episodes for context. And while Gravitron might not be that strong of a standalone one-off villain, he works perfectly as a piece of the bigger puzzle that is EMH season 1.
Im so glad there is someone giving this show the praise it deserves. With the MCU most people seem to have forgotten about the good marvel cartoons.
If I may be so bold to ask could you make a video comparing the founding members of the Avengers in the MCU and EMH and how they bring different things to the team. My pet peeve with it is that without the Wasp(who was my favourite) there isn't anyone on the team who has fun and cheery. MCU team has no heart in my opinion.
That's a good point, and a good idea for a video - my next few vids are already (partially) made, but I'll try to make one like that sometime soon - and of course, I'll give you credit for the idea :)
This show was excellent and had serous legs under it. Sadly, they didn't move any toys, just like Young Justice.
I thin that is the problem with both the MCU and especially the DCEU. There are quips and bathos in Marvel that are entertaining but also a bit formulaic. DCEU is just a dreary mess at it's worst and pretty good at imitating Marvel at it's best (Aquaman is basically a remixed Black Panther).
@@vernonhampton5863 I dont think there was any issues with toys. It was cancelled to make way for Avengers Assemble. Tho it can be argued that if there were 2 different avengers the one that resembeled the movies would sell more toys.
I think its an "expectations" thing. That live-action is were everything is taken seriously, so all the characters are either irreverent to the weirder stuff from the comics or are reimaged to be completely different from their comic selves, (which I think is something left over from how they approached the first Iron-Man that has annoyingly persisted).
Its an approach that's quite bizarre ,not being serious in an effort to be taken serious, especially when compared to the Batman, X-Men and Spider-Man, which did take their material seriously but also poked fun at it as well.
_"This is starting to sound like a bad comic book plot."_ for example.
For a while now I've seen these as the MCU's biggest flaw, that lack of reverance, the samey meta humour, and overcompensation to be "grounded" when so much insanity has already been portrayed. It kinda undermines what their trying to do.
Wanna know a big difference between the two? Hulk as a character. With personality and agency. It's one thing having 5 or 6 characters with a giant bag of muscle but those same characters and a heavily misunderstood and intimidating literal double personality character means a lot. One of my faves moments was when hulk identified an energy signature to be cosmic radiation to Tony and he was just floored.
Truly is, yeah...
EMH is the reason Hawkeye is my favorite avenger, him and Wasp were a riot.
Wasp was my inspiration for Fairy Girl. And because I couldn't work out the shrinking physics and I just liked seeing Wasp small in the show, I made Fairy Girl permanently small. While giving her the strength of Supergirl!
@@SeanWheeler100 Ok creator thats genuinely interesting but you can't just throw it out there; like I don't even know if you mean a book, a game or a post card.
@patientnr.0409 Huh? Why are you a fan of Hawkeye when the character is nothing more than a meme? You know, Marvel's already lampshaded countless times how much of a meme and a liability Hawkeye is in the comics and in especially the MCU. Everyone just views Hawkeye as pedestrian, boring, and useless.
@@rustyshackelford4224 Bro don't come to me to cope, so many marvel comics in the last 5 years sucked ass so who cares if it hit Clint too also this doesn't change his portrayal in EMH in the slightest since this is an isolated story.
So happy to see EMH getting some attention
Same.
Hulk smiling as he dashes vertically downward upon shipping crates at Graviton...precious.
Hell yeah, this is hands down the best Marvel animated series out there, even better than the 90's X-Men and Spiderman (sacrilege, I know)
It's nothing short of criminal that it didn't get more seasons.
Is it better than the MCU though?
... Well, I'd say yeah, mostly. Or at least on par with most of it. I definitely prefer the initial group setup here. It just seems more natural, and I love that it sets itself in an already established world. Nothing wrong with origin stories per say, but having to wade through 4-5 of em' before every crossover event gets tiring, especially at feature film length.
Plus, NO STUPID SCENE-RUINING FORCED JOKES AND POP CULTURE REFERENCES! That alone makes this show superior to me.
EMH's world feels so lived-in, it's really well established.
Id say as good
But better?
Lets not get too carried awag here
@Mister Majestic well it has a lot of cameos of characters heroes and villain wise.
Yeah but what about The Super Hero Squad Show?
Nah I think EMH is better than the MCU in most ways I can think of.
It would've been awesome if Iron Man or Nick Fury had recruited Ant-man and the wasp in Avengers Age of Ultron, and in Civil war Yellowjacket could've been on Iron Man side while Wasp is on Cap's side. this could have made more sense for the MCU since Ant-man is responsible for Ultron and they would have gotten more heroes in Civil war.
Yeah!! That could actually work!!!
That could work, if Antman has a different origin movie or was introduced in the same way Hawkeye and Black Widow was in the MCU. Unfortunately the MCU used Yellowjacket as the villain to fight Antman and Yellowjacket wasn’t Hank. But he was only seen mostly as a mentor to Scott.
I’m so glad you’re covering this show, and I’m more surprised on how many people like the show after all this time and actually want it to return!
Perhaps Loki's attack in the films could have been made as an inspiration for other villains to begin attacking during the invasion
I like it!
Too much for a movie lol
@@larryfoulkeofficial8609 I meant more as in, as each villain is introduced with their backstory, it could have a direct link to the Battle of New York in the Avengers.
Similar to how they did the backstory for Kate in the Hawkeye series.
@@phantomslayer7779 Tying multiple villains back to the battle of new York would be forced AF and make the mcu feel small
@@larryfoulkeofficial8609 Not all of them, just enough for like the solo films so that the battle feels more important.
I love that wasp is the way she is in this show. And the organic powers are really fun
A similar plot thread could have been loki raving about how he isnt alone and more will come for the stones ( only he knows about the infinity stones at this point) and before thor takes loki back brice banner stops them he says if what loki says is true then we have to be ready, not to just avenge our friends ( refrencing coulson) but ready to avenge the planet, if more are coming we need to be ready to stop them,
At this point black widow could hand out a comms device
Each sperate but with the intention of reuniting
I really liked this show.
It was one of the most accurate portrayals of the characters we know and love joining the team along with their villains.
I have some problems with the show like Tony being stupid early on but glad they fixed that later on.
I’ve always believed that the fight with graviton was a much better way to get the team together
I’d like to see you pitch an avengers emh season 3. Just for fun. Like a fan fiction.
That’s an exciting idea! I’d want to do it justice though, so if I do ever make that video it’ll be if and when a truly good enough set of ideas comes to me :)
@@PillarofGarbage great. Let me know if u need any help. I may kno a thing or two
I think it’s a good idea for the main plot to revolve around Ragnarok and Annihilation, but I don’t have much in the way of details.
@@Joseph_Drew_III def ragnarok Bc in season 2, we saw surtur make the twilight sword. Also, a good idea is to introduce the X-men, explore the effects of the main conflict of season 2 (secret invasion), and Introduce characters like dr strange, nova, magneto.
Another thing you could do is expand the concept of the registration act, which could lead up to civil war in possibly season 4.
Annihilation would also be perfect for the marvel cosmic universe
@@Joseph_Drew_III Yeah, I agree - Season 2 set up those two in intriguing ways.
One of my favorite parts about how this show sets up the Avengers and the wider Marvel universe is its willingness right out of the gate to embrace the wacky world of comics. From the get-go heroes and villains just exist, and that does a lot for me compared to the MCU.
The MCU starting with the first Iron Man really felt like a world that was just starting off, when you watch that first film it never feels like there were any characters prior to Iron Man, and I find that the more they go back and add characters set in the past it feels pretty clunky because it never felt like a world where anything like that existed prior to that first Iron Man film. Captain America I'd say is the one instance where it worked because it was so far removed due to just how far back it was set, but Captain Marvel still has me scratching my head a bit trying to line that film up with the wider MCU.
I feel like the 'casualness' of EMH is maybe its greatest strength in many ways, characters from the wider Marvel universe can just show up with no backstory or setup required, you need a Masters of Evil, boom they already exist, and in doing so that immediately establishes each hero as having their own little universes going on without needing a whole episode (or film in the MCU's case) explaining them. It also makes it so easy for other characters to show up like the Fantastic Four and just saying in one exchange that Doctor Doom exists and they've been enemies for years, it feels so natural within the world.
It's strange that I feel the MCU has still struggled to capture this since so many other superhero films have. The Incredibles is a great example where you don't see much, but there's enough subtle touches that clearly establish the world as being full of heroes and villains.
I get the MCU wanting to have a real world grounding point to help audiences relate to it, but I feel it slows down a lot of things, like you said it feels like the team somewhat stops being a team at the closing of that first film, and it never really feels like the Avengers either on their own or as a team do much between films. I'm still waiting for a villain who we as the audience have never seen before in the MCU to show up, but whatever hero they're fighting is just like 'oh yeah, I've fought them before'. The closest I feel we've got to that is the Thor films but even then they're rarely what I'd call casual encounters built upon an unseen history.
Thank you so much for making this video. Yes, EMH is a great show, I miss that show so much, and i personally prefer EMH's take on the Avengers than MCU's.
EMH pilot is right from the "New Avengers" comic issue 1 with the same name. But it was a different team. Spider-man, Captain, Iron-man, Lake Cage, Spider-woman and the Sentry and Wolverine.
It’s definitely heavily inspired by New Avengers - but the classic lineup and the ultimate cause being Loki show a really cool blending of the classic and new Avengers’ origins!
Finally someone said it. Avengers EMH is miles better than everything the MCU has done.
i wish this show got the Surtur arc and wanted to see more of Doom and Thanos introduction
I wish EMH would have continued
So do I
@@matityaloran9157 we all do.
@@Actionfan19 yep
To be far, they could not have one upped Galactus. Unless it ran with quality until after Black Winter
If Jeph Loeb and man of action hadn’t interfered and supervised it. EMH would’ve continued
I think 2012 Avengers definitely could've used a warning towards existing threats... maybe use the stones to their advantage more in that regard? Have the mind stone give someone visions of possible threats like Wanda eventually does in Age of Ultron, or have Iron Man explicitly see far more of the universe and the threats out there on his way back through the portal.
That Hulk quip at Graviton is my favourite moment in the whole cartoon
The video has only been out for an hour and you already passed the 1k subs asked for in the end. Congrats!
The videos I've seen have been really good! You totally deserve more success and I wish you the best of luck!
Thank you! Yeah, I recorded this video a couple days ago when the subs were around 750 - very happy to have crossed 1000! :D
I believe the New Avengers in the comics also came together to stop a breakout. Been quite awhile since I read it, though.
And now I have the EMH theme tune stuck in my head...
Our world's about to break
Tormented and attacked
Lost from when we wake
With no way to go back
I'm standing on my own
But now I'm not alone
(Avengers Assemble!)
Congrats on 1k Subs, loving the EMH videos! :)
The problem with MCU is that it focuses too much on humour, the villians are rarley a threat aside from a very few ones, some of the main characters in the MCU have been done dirty with poor handling & writing like The Hulk, Spider-Man & Thor for example.
While Avengers: Earth's Migtiest Heroes on the other hand, actually respected the original source material & was a show made for both old & new fans alike.
I still prefer Earth's Mightiest Heroes over a lot of the majority of the MCU films, because it was actually good show & treated the characters of the original comics with respect. While MCU over time showed it's true colours that the films are just made to milk money from consumers who a lot of them have this mind set: "Don't ask questions. Just consume product & then get excited for next products."
But that's just my own personal opinion.
U sir r correct. The mcu has issues like character development but the best one is Tony and that’s it. The jokes r soo cringe sometimes.
@@KingKhupacabra Totally disagree but hey your opinion
I don't think you analyzed the movies properly.
@@dylansharp8471There's not much to really deconstruct or digest when talking about the MCU's Devil May Care humor.
Dude I love these EMH videos they're so interesting to listen to when Im doing something they make me want to rewatch the entire series and properly go examine everything I probably missed. (Also whats the song for the outro it slaps and makes me stay on your video to the last second.)
Thanks, I appreciate it, there's more coming soon! The outro is just a loop I made - combining a piano sample and a drum sample from looperman, and recording a couple of guitar layers myself on top. So I'm glad you like it - but unfortunately it doesn't really exist outside of these videos, so I can't really link you to anything!
@@PillarofGarbage It sounds amazing bro can't believe you did the outro yourself. Knowing that it doesn't exist outside of the videos means I just gotta keep watching your vids to hear that awesome outro. Keep up the work man can't wait to see more of your vid you definitely earned a sub here.
I think I would have changed three things with the first Avengers movie to better set up the team:
1 - Loki says that some greater force won't stop - a "you may have won today, but he'll win the war"
2 - Tony and Thor take Loki seriously and try to form the team, however, SHIELD/Hydra have other concerns which creates discord (this could be discussed in the credit scenes)
3 - The team is formed, but sent to different locations - Thor to Asgard w/ Loki, Tony and Bruce stay put for now, and Steve joins Natasha and Clint at SHIELD; however, the team is largely split over the next course of action and it should be displayed in later movies
As for how the team is split - I would say that Tony, Clint, and Thor are on one side (being prepaired) while Steve, Natasha, and Bruce are on the wait and see side. Other than the issue of fitting MCU Hank and Janet into the story, I do think it would have been cool to see Hank and Janet as part of the Avengers rather than making them older Avengers. It would have been cool to see or mention more Avengers during Age of Ultron. If the long term anger was removed (or at least less strong), then it could even work for an older Hank to have worked with Tony and Bruce on the Ultron Project, but then Age of Ultron creates the bitterness when Scott becomes Antman (it would need to be done right, but could work). I think it would also help if Ironman II was rewritten to mention an increase in large scale crime, which could be part of the reason for Tony's dislike of SHIELD. I would also increase the number of Avengers before Civil War so that we could exclude Clint and Scott (let them be retired/part-time rather than betray their families). I'm debating changing Ironman III to have Tony talking with Clint rather than Bruce, or maybe both Clint and Bruce (I want to include Clint in more than just the team up movies, but I don't think he fits in for the action in the three movies before Age of Ultron). The movies after Civil War are where changes will need to be bigger, but I also think that some of the movies can still happen.
Also, if Avengers Asssembled was supposed to be connected to the movies, then I would have the events of Avengers Assembled be reworked so that it was additional canon information, but wasn't required for the movies to make sense. Avengers Assembled would be where the other Avengers get introduced, we get more backstory for Clint, we meet villains that aren't in the movies, and the original six are not the focus. In fact, Thor wouldn't appear until the end of Season 1 or beginning of Season 2. Each season would try to fill in events between the movies, so we could get some of the aftermath of the first movie, then how Tony helps before rebuilding the armor, and by the end of Season 2, Hydra bases are being wiped out regularly (Age of Ultron implied that this was a regular thing and could motive people to watch the show). Seasons 3 and 4 would show the increasing number of superhuman individuals and show the difference between Tony and Steve leading up to Civil War. Maybe add another two seasons before Infinity War, and this set focuses on the after math of the Civil War and brings in the last new heroes (I'm less set on having this set, but it would make sense to have some). After Infinity War and Endgame, there could be a season for the initial aftermath of the Snap and then wrap up with some of what happened during the time skip (I'd love to see some more Tony with Pepper and Morgan as well as how he hung up the suit).
If the movies and Avengers Assembled had been planned out more for interconnectedness, then I think it could have worked well to have the TV show run with the movies. This way there was some extra information as well as a potential for more hype around the movies as well. Only the TV show would rely on the movies, but the movies could make small nods to the TV show.
Avengers: EMH, JL/JLU, Young Justice, Spectacular Spider-Man, Teen Titans, X-Men Evolution and Wolverine & the X Men was my childhood.
Also, how in any show or movie, Thor always gets the greatest of the entrances?
I cherish them both with all my heart!
Am I the only one who thinks that Hulk and Bruce were handled way better in this show?
I really think the Hulk stuff works super well in EMH!
I feel the main thing that I think EMH did more than MCU for the Avengers is that they actually function at a team. In the MCU they mostly really cooperate out of obligation to take down a big threat and make it very clear they don't get along outside of those times. Ik that's what they were going for, but it's hard for me to root for the team when they are so dysfunctional and butt heads with one another.
EMH on the other hand, they trust and support each other and even spend free time with one another. That feeling of found family really resonates with me more than the begrudged feel the MCU Avengers ever could.
Something I would like to add is that the breakout plot was lifted from the New Avengers 2005 comic
Also, Earth Mightiest Heroes has a great intro song
Keep it up there is chance that this show might come back.
This is why serializations work better in general. It’s a continuous story, something that happens every couple years.
Maybe something the MCU could have done was make the alien attack truly change the entire world. Organizations like AIM, HYDRA, maybe even Hammer Industries could salvage and use the alien technology to create weapons and advance their technology (basically what Vulture did in Homecoming, but on a bigger scale). This would give them incentive to keep the team together continuously. Maybe even use it as a way to introduce villains that have been around for a while but have been under the radar until the Avengers start actively dealing with threats in their free time.
They also could have had events in Agents of Shield have more of an impact on the movies (seriously, there is never even a single mention in the movies about inhumans and how they were showing up worldwide)
This show was proof kid's shows don't have to be garbage.
I think the the connection between The Avengers movie and the AEMH pilot was good and I think the EMH one was the best version.
I think a problem the MCU has always had is that everything started off in a completely normal world, where every superhuman and/or supernatural occurrence needs to be explained and justified. In my opinion, it would've been better to start off in an Incredibles-like world, or in a world like the EMH one itself, where superpowered people behind every corner are the norm already, and the Avengers are simply a group of them deciding to hang out together.
My only complaint about EMH is I would have liked to have seen more of the escaped villains. What if say Winter Soldier tracks down Red Skull, except it's the Chameleon? Or Falcon has a tense air battle with Vulture and the Vulterions?
Have the Masters of Evil take over the mansion like they did in the comics with Hercules being almost killed, then soon after introduce the Thunderbolts.
I know that the show didn't last long enough for all that, but it would have been nice.
Honestly, I don't think adding a moment like that would be a good idea for the MCU. It worked great for EMH, but in the MCU I don't think it would be feasible for a simple reason: they have different goals.
EMH's episode seeks to start a show where the status quo is an avengers team working together to combat a threat. This is a good setup, and it requires a moment like the show has to justify.
However, the MCU does not want that status quo. The first avenger's movie seeks to set up a status quo of various tangentially connected movies starring one or two heroes, with occasional events where the "avengers" actually do anything as a group. I like this format for the MCU because it allows new people to jump in on a random solo movie, and because it makes avengers movies feel special. This only works because "the avengers" are barely a thing. They started as a onetime gig and transformed into a group that works together every so often but mostly each member does their own thing. If you put a moment like you have in EMH, and then proceeded with the MCU format, it would feel completely wrong.
I personally think EMH as a whole can Top anything the MCU brings. But the entire MCU as a whole, well EMH can't really compete with a decades worth of movies, shows, and content. So personally I love them both it's just there are somethings both universes did good and bad. Well EMH the probs only bad thing in my opinion is that the 2nd season finale felt kinda rushed and the set up for more seasons went to waste...
Ppl tend to forget that wasp was a founding/foundation member of the avengers
No one really cares for the Wasp though. When was the last time she ever had fans?
@@rustyshackelford4224 yeah she may not have alot of fans but I love her I like her character
@@impackmusiq5236 Why are you a huge fan of The Wasp when she doesn't have much of a fanbase in the first place?
@@rustyshackelford4224 she have fans bro but she doesn't has many comic book appearances and maybe she isn't everyone's favorite
@@impackmusiq5236 Where can I find this fanbase for The Wasp then?
i cant express how happy I was to find your channel and all the love you give EMH. i was the only kid who watched it in my friend group, everyone else would rather just watch the movies instead but my true love was THIS show
When it comes to the main difference you talked about, I think that ultimately comes down to the type of medium the MCU is compared to the show. EMH at its core is an Avengers animated series that planned to continue telling stories about the team. The MCU on the other hand is a movie franchise beyond just the Avengers. It’s a shared Marvel universe including those of solo and group movies. They had the team go their separate ways so they can star in their own solo movies because team up films with ensemble casts like the Avengers probably needed build up in the eyes of the producers. These ensemble movies were meant to be like big series finales or comic crossovers. That’s why I’m fine with how the MCU handled that front.
There's definitely some truth to what you're saying! I am planning to talk about this in a future video, though, as I think it's a little more complex.
@@PillarofGarbage Some of the things I think EMH handled better is tone. It has a good consistent tone that’s light-hearted but doesn’t seem to talk down to its audience. I’m not one of those people that think humor = bad but the MCU tends to have a problem where it tries too hard to be funny or puts in comedy where it’s not needed. We can have a broken depressed Thor in Endgame without making him the butt of many fat jokes. (Also Hulk in this show is 10x funnier than the “comedic” MCU Hulk and he’s not even trying)
Some of the factors that makes this Avengers EMH better than the MCU is their portrayal of The Hulk and Black Panther
Huh? Why do you say that?
Eh. I don’t think The Avengers needed that moment. It’s a little too “tell, don’t show”. Besides, we see Thanos towards the end, which gives us a face for future machinations in store. We see Tony converting Stark Tower into Avengers tower. And Fury even says the Avengers will be back “because we’ll need them to”. It would have felt redundant.
Watching this video with subtitles on. At 0:44 “Earths Mightiest Heroes” is “earths mightiest terrorists” in the subtitles 😅😂
This is the only piece of media I’ve ever seen give full reference to the Big House.
You are this shows knight in shining armor
And you subscribers are my knights in shining armour!
Yeah, I don't think it would have been feasible to have the MCU Avengers be a team that sticks together (like in EMH) instead of a group of people who meet occasionally (like it is in MCU). The reason is that it wouldn't be possible to output so many films as the MCU has done if each and one of them had ALL of the big-name stars who comprise the Avengers cast, because those actors are quite expensive (and busy).
Lore of Assembling the Team: How Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes Beats the MCU momentum 100
Interestingly, Red Skull was supposed to be the villain for the MCU Avengers(or at least I'm pretty sure that was the initial plan). Which means the plot to CONTINUE the team after the film could have been the search for Hydra (something we did kinda get in Winter Soldier).
The problem is that the movies didn’t want them to be a permanent team. For multiple reasons. 1 they weren’t sure if it would succeed. 2 they wanted to have future solo films. Partially if the Avengers didn’t work out, and even if it did the solo movies would also make them more money. So if the movie ended with them still together it actually would’ve hindered their plans for the franchise.
Was Breakout the pilot? I remember there being episodes before it like the one where Iron Man fights Hydra after it attacks the UN and which Chekhov’s Guns the existence of the Raft when Hill asks Fury if the other supervillain prisons were the same as The Vault only for Fury to say “all four are different” “Four? I thought there were only three” and the one where Hulk fights Absorbing Man only to get captured by Hulkbusters and warns Doc Samson “they’re trying to make more of me” and the one where Klaue confronts Ant-Man and Ant-Man laments that “no one wants to talk things out anymore”. And the one where Thor goes back to Asgard to fight Loki and gets into a kerfuffle with his father Odin. It’s been a while since I watched it but didn’t those episodes happen before Breakout?
I think, technically, breakout is the pilot, but there were individual mini-episodes released beforehand which would later be retrofitted into the pre-breakout episodes you’re talking about.
Ok. That makes sense, since I saw those before I saw Breakout.
I know it’s been said a lot already, but having Hank and Janet there really is everything. Scott is nice but besides Reed Hank is the man of science and Tony had to carry all that unfortunately.
There's a lot of similarities between the worlds presented in EMH and the world presented in the animated movie Next Avengers: Heroes of tomorrow. Do you think that's where it all leads? Is that the future of these characters?
It very well could be - I need to rewatch it!
I say yeah, due to primarily art style and Ultron’s voice
@@thatsmuggamer except there Tony is the one that built Ultron. And Black Widow was an Avenger
I’d just like to remind everyone that Reed Richards has smacked his wife and child multiple times. This is important because the reason Hank Pym isn’t a main character in these movies is because they didn’t want to use him because of that
They're both great, but the MCU had to leave room for heroes to continue their own individual films, so it makes perfect sense that they didn't stay a team right away
There is a petition to get a season 3 with a decent amount of votes... But it hasn't led anywhere yet...
a plot threat that could keep the avengers united, could be the tesseract. If after the end of the movie they somehow lost it. The reason they are united in age of ultron is because of loki's scepther that also has an infinity stone. They got the thief, fot havent found the money. And that thing already caused so much destruction in the planet since how long.
One thing I liked about this show is this one comment made about a villain. Small time villain. Whirlwind is a guy who had the power to rotate himself and turn into somewhat of a tornado. Basically he turns into Taz from looney toons.
Anyway, someone in shield was going over his file (Since he escaped) and was reading facts, and in doing so admitted that Whirlwind was a mutant.
Not only was this something I did not know about the guy, this was the first animated series, aside from Spider-Man meeting the X-Men, that acknowledged that they were in the same world. Most cases they forget the other exists.
X-Men evolution came out years earlier, and turns out Captain America was fighting Nazis shoulder to shoulder with Wolverine and saving a child Magneto from a concentration camp.
I watched this show WAY late. 2012
We Need More Of This Shit!!!
Webs of world building FITTING together.
God this show was the best, when they canceled it I was so sad
Isnt the similar plot thread the MCU should have had sorta self evident? We know Thanos was gonna be the big bad somehow by then already, heck we know Loki was working for someone interested on Earth for reasons. Thor fucks off immediately to deliver Loki and see what Asgardian intel has to say, Earth based heroes form a network so they have a better chance of figuring out, maybe oust a few other potential unknown big boss agent.
Would evne make agr of ultron stronger, since now Tony's secret plan connects to the overall mcu plot, not just a "i got secret ptsd from the nyc stufd btw, amd workes behind everyone back sorta". It is "this was what i was working on for this pet project of ours, didnt feel like i needed to ask anyone else but the fellow science man".
Emh felt more like a team than the mcu avengers coz they did the little things as well eg stopping a random villain on the street frequently. The only time the mcu avengers gather is for a extreme level threat eg ultron and thanos
So glad to get more videos on this it's such a good series
Stick around, video on EMH Kang coming tomorrow!
@@PillarofGarbage hell yeah
I think they could have really easily done something similar to EMH by just having Loki make an offhand comment after his capture about "his boss" or something. Give both Shield and the Avengers reason to stick together to figure out who it was that set everything up. Even after everyone learns it's Thanos, they could still have been turned to "Ok, so Thanos apparently has plans. We don't know how many of them are on Earth, so we're going to work together to find all possible leads and work to stop whatever it is he's planning. From there they can work out he's looking for some kind of powerful items, eventually working it down to the infinity stones, even if they don't know what they are until later. Have them be proactive in the search, have Ultron come out not just from Tony and Bruce trying to make the global peace AI, but also trying to understand what the mindstone can do; maybe as a way to try and figure out whatever his plan could be (even if truthfully they have no way to figure it out from one or two infinity stones beyond "he needs a lot of power for something," they have no idea what the stones can do realistically, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't try). Have them finally put everything together shortly before or at the start of infinity war after noticing there is another similar energy signature in New York (Dr. Strange and the Time Stone), have them try and figure out whats going on and have Strange and Wong explain things like they did at the start already. Boom. You now have an active thread connecting the events of the movies to one another while keeping the plots basically the same and also now giving the team a reason to work together over a longer period of time.
Just my personal thoughts though.
Why did Fury’s robot double have both eyes in their skull?
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you overall and I love EMH to death, but simply due to the MCUs need for solo movies, it wouldn't be as clean if the avengers stayed "fixed" more or less as a team. It could be written around, sure, but it would've probably been more trouble than it was really worth for the writers of the MCU, whereas it makes perfect since in EMH because it's literally an avengers show
I'm actually planning on (indirectly) talking about this issue in another video soon. It won't be the next EMH video I put out, but it will likely be the one following that.
I haven't read the comics but heard some say the series handled secret invasion storyline better than comics is it true?
I think there's pros and cons to both, but EMH definitely weaves it into the world and plot better in my opinion - it's set up well in advance and continues to effect the world afterwards. That being said, most of the time you know for certain who's real and who isn't, which is maybe a missed opportunity?
2:35 correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that truck in the background is overlapping the diner seat. Once you notice it, you can’t see it.
Yeah totally agree with your closing comments. Like, where was the lead up to AoU? Could Stark have been more sassy about Steve dropping his shield at TWS; raiding more facilities to find the sceptre; more Shwarma moments... Its the little things we come back for.
What would keep the avenger's together at the end of the movie? *Cracks neck* here's an idea: The mind stone and the space stone touch tearing through the avengers. Hulk can't turn back to banner, the arc reactor malfunctions leaving Tony's brain half relying on Jarvis, Steve becomes blind but sees his past life on replay, old spy conditioning wipes Natasha's mind and she becomes a near mindless weapon, all of Clint's remaining arrow heads go off behind his back causing all sorts of injuries, and Thor gets trapped inside of Mjölnir. They are all sent to a high-tech, Shield, medical/R&D facility, but the doctors can't help them, they have to lean on each other to get back to being themselves for a 3rd act battle against as member of staff who used to be a prisoner/patient, and clues of their stay at the facility are littered everywhere.
I mean after avengers marvel didnt really spend time with origins for some other their other big name villains like zemo, task master, cross bones, the "mandarin" ect. We could have had a scene on the helicarrier at least name dropping a few of these characters as being possible threats giving the avengers the intuitive to track them down and the plus side with the villains not appearing out of no where and dieing in the movies they appeared in
Yeah. The MCU mishandled most of the villains anyway
If Marvel didnt Sold their Character
1.Maybe some Movie would not Happening
2.X men and Fantastic Four Will be in Mcu
3.there Won t be Reboot
My favorite superhero series. This is a real team
Why?
I think probably the big reason for why the Avengers all split off to do their own thing at the end of the movie was that all the movies that follow are more solo adventures, like how Thor: Dark World is about just Thor, or Iron Man 3 is about just Iron Man. The Avengers movies are supposed to be big events, and keeping the heroes apart until those big events lets those events feel even grander, but I do think that robs us of more interactions between the heroes. I do wish that after Avengers 2012, they used the Avengers as an excuse to have heroes show up in other characters' solo movies more often, like Hulk in Thor: Ragnarok or the rest of the Avengers in Captain America: Civil War, but with phase 3 come and gone, I guess we'll just have to hope for the future movies to be better.
You're probably right, but the comics have been able to make the team/solo dynamic work for a long while now. I think there's definitely a way the MCU could have hit a similar balance. But who knows!
EMH it's Marvel at his finest for writing and characters.
Huh? Why do you say that?
This difference is the epitome of the disparity of medium. With shows and comics, they are built on the premise that *something* will always come next, that the current issue will have a follow up, but with movies they are built to have a beginning and an end, with as few dangling threads as possible. Its partially why so many superhero movies don’t translate perfect between adaptions, as movies are always trying to create a resolution, when in comics there is no need for one.
EMH ends on a note of: there are all these villains, so “we have to be there”
MCU ends on a note of: the big threat at the end is defeated, so in future “we will be there”
This difference is a subtle one, but one is open ended, and one is conclusive, which aligns with the core disparities between sparse unserialized mediums, and dense plot driven mediums
Unrelated but EMH Thor's comment about Hulk being an ogre confirms that Hulk vs Thor movie never happened despite vusing the same voice cast.
I think that’s the point of the end of the Avengers, they *aren’t* a full-time team. It’s not until the events of the Winter Soldier that Captain America & Black Widow realize they need a full-time Avengers team outside of SHIELD, to track down and defeat Hydra. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Cap & Widow are the only Characters of the original 6 that stay on the Avengers after Hydra is defeated (and later, after the snap).
Graviton was in AOS and it was pretty great
I guess it’s whichever setup you prefer.
The MCU set up the Avengers as a team that would only assemble when the stakes were high enough that the world was in danger.
The EMH cartoon set up the Avengers as a team that would continually work together, and even live together, in order to defend the world on a day-to-day basis.
I suppose with the more grounded tone of the MCU, the Avengers being a non-constant team makes a bit a more sense.
Hulk was the best part of that show
I always feel like animated is better
I agree with all of the points you made in the video although the mcu is great you just can’t top emh
At last
Someone who sees the light
So, I always said that the DC movies could have done something similar (and they kinda did) to this idea, patterned after the Legends mini after Crisis on Infinite Earths. This will have spoilers for a comic book that came out in 1985.
In Legends Darkseid and The Phantom Stranger have a bet (sorta) that humanity will turn on the superheroes and turn to Darkseid after Darkseid does a number of manipulative attacks and such. If this were to translate to the movies, it could easily be a film for each hero that uses various Apokolips generals and have them mentioned in passing in the other films via Glorious Godfrey. Wonder Woman facing off with Granny Goodness and the Female Furies, Aquaman facing Mantis and Deep Six. Intergang in Metropolis and Gotham as Kanto faces Batman and Kalibak faces Superman. Even the Suicide Squad would fit in, as they were introduced in Legends. Only comic book fans would see the connections (until the Internet spoils this) and it brings the team together to form the League as they did in the Snyder film. The threat would still persist after that film, so they have a reason to fight individually and then later together.
Okay, yes, I am a DC fan. But it would and still could be a model for the MCU (and it just may be, if this multiverse story line is what it seems).
The problem is very much two-fold. One, the films are films and not a TV series, where you need to watch all to know what's going on. And two, TV has a single vision guiding it and all the episodes, where each film has a vision based on their own team, even if there is a single person guiding them.
MCU became insanely overrrated by fans and critics,people should understand that there are many Marvel masterpieces out of Marvel Cinematic Universe.
Explain why you think the MCU is overrated? Also, why do you say they're far better adaptations of the Avengers than the MCU?
@@rustyshackelford4224 im not a big marvel fan but wheni took alook on the comics i saw that MCU is not always so comic book accurate unlike many Marvel projects.
I've been saying this for years the Earth's mightiest heroes 1st season should have been the entire MCU plott
EMH's version of secrets wars was really good, I hope the MCU can do it justice
way better than the movies.
0:27 Because in Hollywood, the Big Apple is Za Warudo.